Jackson Free Press

Kudos and accolades to the parents of Chastain Middle School who have said enough is enough. In addition to the school's embarassing administration, the students at Chastain are allegedly having sex on school property, and fighting as well. Surely someone should be held accountable for NOT doing the children justice over there. Who's responsible? Parents? Teachers? Lack of administrative professionalism? This is a prime example of the partnership that is necessary amoung teachers and parents to educate kids on proper behavior and sex. Chastain is a middle school. One middle school. If something isn't done soon to blanket this issue, it will fester out to more schools than Chastain. It'll take more than a handful of parents protesting. Is the community ready to take on this challenge? Do we even care enough anymore? What's the next move to save our children?

Previous Commentsshow

And some people wonder why some parents send their kids to private school. If these student are engaging in this type of behaviour, they should be sent to the alt school. I would tend to blame their parents. Kids that have been raised properly would know better.

bill_jackson

Jun 9 2008

Certainly the parents have a higher level of responsibility than any other party, but at the same time, there is a significant problem with our educators and administration too. I mean for example I have many friends who have gone into the teaching field because they couldn't get another job, or they wanted summers off, or they wanted something quick....none of this makes you qualified or equipped to be a teacher. I say that to say the level of commitment from the schools is not there like it use to be. We shouldn't have to pull our kids out of public school just because the adults there aren't doing their jobs. How can they not know or prevent sexual activities on school grounds? HOw are kids getting away from supervision long enough to participate in sex? How are they not getting caught by someone, anyone? I think there's a bigger issue. I think the problem lies in our educators not being concerned about the children and not communicating (or being afraid to communicate) with parents when they see a child in need of parental supervision. No it's not the teacher's job to raise the child. However, it is a small contribution to raising the child that should be made while that student is at the school. the most successful teachers are the ones who become involved in their students'lives. I know that can't do that with all kids...but they use to...when I was in school. Especially the ones who were clearly headed down the wrong road. Not today though. Today it's all about going to work, collecting a check, and going back home. What happened at school that day is no longer their problem...it's the parents'.

Queen601

Jun 9 2008

Let me also add, that I do have friends who are excellent educators. My point was simply to point out that now-a-days there are more young, unenthused teachers than there was back in the day. Back when teachers were at an average age of about 45 (plus). Back when they lived in your neighborhood or around the corner. Back when parents and teachers conversed regularly. Back when driving to school was not the norm. You know those days. Yes, of course there are plenty of teachers who do excellent jobs. Those are the ones who need to be lifted up and encouraged. The others need to follow their hearts and persue careers that make them feel whole and complete and not just something to pass some time.

Queen601

Jun 9 2008

Well, Queen, 14-year-olds are wily creatures. ;) I've worked with adolescents for ten years now and have seen two manage to have sex UNDER A DOOR in a fully staffed residential facility-WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT. Sometimes, if kids want to have sex...they are going to have sex. It's horrible. I admit it. But, when they aren't getting sex education in school, they will make their own ways to "learn". :) This is a systemic problem. Its not a "teacher" problem. I think we forget its NOT a teacher's job to chase down the students that are supposed to be in her classroom. It's the teacher's job to teach the kids that are there. And, I'm sure that these teachers have been burned more than a few times when they attempted to communicate to parents what their child is doing wrong. (Blame this on the whole wave of "overindulged children are happy children" psychobabble that's been coming out for the past twenty years). If JPS had more therapeutic support staff (social workers, counselors) there might be a way to get a handle on the problem. Support staff is the way to take care of issues like this. This is a prime example of the partnership that is necessary amoung teachers and parents to educated kids on proper behavior and sex. Yes, if the State Of Mississippi thought that the children of the state were actualy ENTITLED to a proper education regarding sex. :) The thought processes around how to handle these behaviors come from the TOP. And, unfortunatley, Mississippians don't like to talk about sex.

Lori G

Jun 9 2008

See Lori that's what gets me...why the hesitation from the TOP. Why is this state government failing to recognize the NEED to bring sex education to these kids. These kids are not getting it. And believe me, I do know just how possible it is for them to have sex and not get caught (hence the colum "Let's Talk About Sex"). do we just sit back and let these kids do what they do...since the teachers are frustrated, the administration can't watch the children all the time, the parents can't take off work to go to the schools to watch the teachers watch the students, and the government doesn't recognize a need.... so are just damned then? And in my opinion there is more that can be done on the administration level than what's being done. I mean they aren't getting any more educated, plus they going to school having sex. Seems like to me everyone is just giving up saying it's not my fault or her fault or your fault. Still though, these kids are not being supervised, they are failing school and all this in MIDDLE SCHOOL....haven't even made it to high school yet. As I stated this is not to offend teachers who actually care. I hoped to make that clear. But there are some teachers out there who dont/. Thereare some parents who don't. There are principals who don't. That's just a fact.

Queen601

Jun 9 2008

Do they still have time alotted for students to go see the counselor? They use to do that at my elementary school. Just to go chat. Do they do that still....it's been a long time since I was in school. But that actually helped...

Queen601

Jun 9 2008

Sorry Queen, but I place the blame squarely at the feet of the parents. It's a parents' responsibility to teach their kids about sex and how to act in public, but for some reason many don't feel the need to, so we end up with a bunch of irresponsible, poorly behaved kids. If the parents aren't at fault, then who is? Do we really want the government doing this job? And Lori, don't get too graphic, but how does one go about hitting it "under a door"?

bill_jackson

Jun 9 2008

Queen-they still have time to see counselors. But, at last count, there was only one social worker per 3 or 4 JPS schools. They are only at certain schools on certain days. Also, sometimes you can't get in to see your counselor because they are overwhelmed. Although, I've had some wonderful experiences with counselors at Powell. I haven't had any contact with ones at Chastain because I do not currently have children in that school. Personally, I think a lot of them are just TIRED. Seriously. It's not an excuse. But, in working with inner city kids and JPS kids for so long...its absolutely alarming how many of them have problems in all major areas of their life. The neighborhood they live in is dangerous. Parents are working more than one job and don't have time to be that invested in what is going on at school. Teachers overwhelmed with the size of classrooms and controlling behavior problems of kids that weren't taught how to act in school. And, administration that is just WAITING for retirement. This is only compounded by curriculum that doesn't even include the basics about sex, biological functions, STD's and keeping themselves safe. I could also talk about norms in African American culture that make black women feel like they "have to have a man-no matter what". Another issue is the prevelence of rape that never gets treated from generation to generation due to stigmas related to mental health care. This leads to a very limited view of their own self-worth and respect for their bodies. This idea of "needing a man" and "lack of respect" has dire consequences when paired together. I am not saying this is JUST an "African American" thing...but I'm saying I've seen it enough to diagnose it among a large percentage of women/girls in poverty. There are so many factors in problems like these that when *I* look at them, I get overwhelmed. Its also brought on by a mostly black public school system that is overloaded, underfunded, and still used as a tool by the "white man" to keep black kids in poverty. But, that's just my two cents. And, I'll probably get reemed for saying it. All the WHITE PEOPLE have their kids in private schools, girl. You know that. They don't care what is going on in the public schools...and they hope they never have to find out. As long as it provides a substandard education that doesn't allow for the advancement of its students, they are happy. Please excuse my cynical attitude. I'm slowly coming to the realization that I've been a social worker too long. :) Rex-We were so astounded by the idea (after several of the other children "told" on them) that two grown staff crawled up to the door on our sides and TRIED to immitate what the hell they must have been doing. I will, for visualization sake, say that there was a two inch gap between the floor and the bottom of the door. :) 14-year-olds are also FLEXIBLE.

Lori G

Jun 9 2008

I believe that all adults involved in a child's life are responsible for properly supervising that child - parents, teachers, ALL OF THEM. As the old African proverb says, it takes a village to raise a child. Ideally, the parents should be doing most of the raising, but let's be honest. Not every child has the kind of parent(s) or guardian(s) who will properly rear their children, so sometimes it is critical for other members of the community to step in. Lori, as far as your story goes, ewwwwww.

LatashaWillis

Jun 9 2008

If indeed "all white people" send their kids to private schools, this little expose' will not exactly have them lining up to enroll at JPS schools anytime soon. I tend to believe that stuff like this happening, and not neccessarily race in and of itself, is the main factor in them opting for private schools. My kids are in public schools in Brandon (one at Brandon Middle), and that would never be tolerated out there. So maybe the school administration is to blame, but I can see them being standoffish after all the tales I've heard of irate moms going off on principals and teachers after having been called in after serious discipline problems w/ their kids.

bill_jackson

Jun 9 2008

Yeah Lori blame the white man for all your woes. That's the same song and dance that been played out a tad too long. Ever thought that some of these kids just don't care, their parents just don't care?

iratetoday

Jun 9 2008

That fact has already been established, Irate, and I don't think she was blaming the "whiteman".

bill_jackson

Jun 9 2008

Irate-I'm white and, um, my daddy's a white man. I tell my therapist he's to blame for most of what's wrong with me. But, I'm not quite sure that is what you meant. ;) L.W.- I totally believe in that sentiment. But, I think the Village Idiot is running the village right now. :P

Lori G

Jun 9 2008

I don't have time to engage on parents/teachers accountability NOT because the being "fed up" is at the forefront, but now that it IS, my only answer as a time starved teacher, parent and many of the "labels" we are blame gaming with out of the sake of hand to God the word "accountability" (from a mandate that is legislated by folks who don't go to THAT school or ANY school everyday nor live in areas that are affected in a huge way....) But I do take every opportunity to say No Child Left Behind... But the oppressiveness/rules/mandates that a school (and I'm also not going public/private) are written in an amount of papers that could fill this room, and they are rules/mandates/laws that schools have to "be" to be "this level", and the "law" comes from so many different directions, that hand-to-Jesus, are so overhwelming and so arbitrary and so political, that the heart and spirit of so many are crushed so quickly and so to our detriment, that I refuse to say "who." But the reality of the situation for me legally as a teacher, where I have to operate at the end of the day is this with bathrooms, and it's very much a civil rights issue and safe school issue all at once. And that struggle ain't gonna happen. Be REAL on the school bathroom. Be REAL about what you know happened there when you were young. And know, no leader in that building WANTS kids having sex or WANTS that to happen. But in a bathroom? Who is accountable? I can't legally tell a child "no" to the bathroom. They learn to work that young. "It's an emergency!" They are gone. If they yell "emergency," and I say NO for any reason (all of which for me are very much a 'yes, but not now' but for a kid who knows how to work the system), then I, as a teacher, am legally responsible. Period. Adminstrators would give there eye teeth to have the resources to have someone who could monitor the hall activity more, but they just don't. They can and do require teacher monitoring during planning periods, but our planning time is already so overtaxed, that they can't "legally" require us to do that...the adminstrators are weighing what money i have to work with /what's legal. And then it's the bathroom. That there are legal issues involving right to privacy, etc. All that to say, the sex? I'm sure there's a policy about it. There's policies about five kabillion things. And then there is what's "legal." And policies aren't always "legal." So sex. Accountable? In writing, I am certain there is a policy that sees "nope." But is it a rule that "some" kids are going to find a way to around. YES. Are there "some" parents who try to get there kids around rules? YES. A few to the point of enabling a child in a way that hurts? YES? What do I know as a teacher and parent? 90% of the time, when you tell kids what to do, they will do it. Most of my kids are going to do what I ask of them. Some aren't. There are a few that will buck it no matter what, and they will buck it to self-destruction on some things. And there is the very real reality that there are some who will buck to be suspended. Because to get "out" is an escape. And there is a very real moral obligation for me personally to not allow that. And it's a fine, delicate line on when the decision to "remove" a student will be really and truly a good option for you to resort to.... And there is a reality that I will have "lightning bolts" that I will see for that last time. And they are gone. And when they are gone, it's in handcuffs (an issue that goes beyond "who's accountable" to "i can't help you now and what you are facing is so huge compared to the consequences that would have not gotten you here. (enabled, somehow, students to the age of the law taking care of it and you see that visual point of no return for a kid) Some will die. So who is accountable? Non-issue for me. Same as public/private...black/white....And there's going to be some mud slinging, and somebody has to take the fall because this is on the news. So much of what is real and true is not. I wish everyday we had handfuls of folks who are exalted in the same way, but are also NOT in the name of "accountability." That word annoys me. Can ya tell? :P

emilyb

Jun 10 2008

And the "keeping it real" part of me HAS to post this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdEShtiglmE

emilyb

Jun 10 2008

OH? The next move to save our children? I can only give you the reminder I have to give myself to keep the hope sometimes: No child left behind. One child at a time. And in my classroom we do; we don't blame. (not conducive for everyone to have a chance to tell a truth when the focus is "whose fault?")

emilyb

Jun 10 2008

And there are more "young unenthused" teachers? Let's break down the difference between the "young" word and the "unenthused" word.... More young. I dunno. More unenthused. I dunno. Back in MY day I was a total butthead, but there were teachers who got me through what could have been self-destructive behavior patterns. And my karma for what I gave them is tenfold everyday :P However, what is really happening with teacher numbers that is very scary is this. A HUGE number more are eligible for retirement than get a degree in education and that number is only increasing. The ones that do go teacher, who are young and enthused, are burnt out quickly. I did it ten years ago. Shelf life of a new teacher is three years. And I honestly have no real world experience with young AND unenthused. It's more of a passion that cripples quickly in that environment.

emilyb

Jun 10 2008

Wow, we have a very serious problem here and no real solution. Everyone has made a valid point. I agree with L.W. I don't believe this issue can be addressed if everyone has a reason to escape accountability (sorry Em). But someone has to be held responsible for these kids. I mean, if a child is to young to have sound judgement (as constantly stated on this site) then the adults around that child should be making themselves responsible and owning their accountability. You can't say that it's the child's fault (not that anyone here did) on one hand, then on the other, it's not. Children are always going to push the grain....they will always do what they are told not to and especially that which they can get away with. Just imagine if JPS cared as much about our children's success as the private school system...the ones with the money who can afford to send their kids to an institution that offers private attention...this problem as well as others would cease to exist. So this does lead right back to a race issue. I say that because the reason why nothing's in place to rectify this situation and those alike is because our government could give two s--ts about the kids in inner city schools. They have deemed them to failure! It's clear that we are left to our own devices when it comes to saving our children because state government doesn't care. It's such a shame to, because who knows what these kids can contribute to our society one day if properly educated and trained. WOW!

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

First, Chastain is not the first middle school in Jackson with "rumors" of students having sex in bathrooms or empty rooms. And I use the word rumors because did those parents with the accusations actually have proof? I understand the frustrations but I'm just asking was there an investigation and did they find proof of this. In the last Parents for Public Schools meeting, the overcrowding issue at Chastain was brought up. Apparently Chastain is busting at the seams with students. This would cause a problem for any capable administration. Despite all their problems, a team of Chastain students made it to the semi-finals of a recent science bowl, and they won over schools like Northwest Rankin and Madison Central. So there's something good going on there. When a child gets off the bus, all those problems that are going on at home get off with that child. JPS needs more support staff, i.e. social workers and discipline officers to assist teachers. I have observed that JPS school counselors have to spend the majority of their time managing testing, scheduling and reporting. There's not much counseling going on.

lanier77

Jun 10 2008

Thank you for pointing out the positives lanier77. We need that. I suppose that my concern is that if there is overcrowding, why isn't this sending a red flag to politicians? Why is this issue dealt with in such a trivializing manner - as if it's not a big deal? I just don't get that. If we need more staff...hire them. If the teachers need training on handling children with behavior issues, as such ...train them. Is the a city government issue? I am offended that this issue is so blatantly overlooked and I don't have a child at Chastain or any middle school in Jackson. So I can only imagine the effects this is having on the parents. And yes, they are the ones who should be offering some foundation of responsiblity and appropriate behavior for thier children. But I do think that schools should offer more than babysitting efforts.

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

Good discussion and I haven't had time to read the comments yet. I won't let that stop me from chiming in though. Anyway, how can you trust teachers to teach your children who won't send their own kids to that school? For me, that tells most of the story. I wouldn't hire the types of teachers. Moreover, the teachers are having more sex than the students and often with the students. Just recently, I heard about one teacher doing a foursome with four of the boys. In most cases I've heard about the teachers are also giving the children drugs and alcohol to lure them into sex. If I didn't know better I'd say the teachers are letting the kids have sex just to watch and make love to themselves while watching. Just kidding! Hopefully, no one will curse me out for that one. Indeed we have to take back our schools - the whole community has to be involved - teachers, community leaders, security officers, the police, mayor, parents, business community, preachers - all of us. Alternative schools aren't the best solution or answer although needed in some instances. We have failed the children not the other way around. If we're not up to the task of raising and educating the children we have got to stop sexing it up and producing them.

Walt

Jun 10 2008

Sorry, I guess that was a fifthsome - 1 teacher and 4 boys.

Walt

Jun 10 2008

Well, Im a product of Chastain and my son will be attending this fall. I can say Chastain was once tops in academics and basketball. I can also say that Ive been concerned about its recent slide. Yes Im concerned about the scandals, the overcrowding, the quality of teachers, etc. We've come into a state in society where no one wants to take responsibility for anything. Everyone blames everyone else and its easier to point the finger instead of owning up to inadequacies. Point is, when something's not working SOMEONE is the blame. SOMEONE IS responsible. Period. And in this case several entities are to blame and all should admit to their negligence. Parents, then the kids, then...the teachers, then JPS adminitration, and at the very top of the chain..our lawmakers who set teacher salaries and run our state's school systems. We must start at the top and let the change trickle down while simultaneously working at the grassroots level with kids and their parents, PTA's and Parent of Public Schools, and work our way up and meet in the middle

Kamikaze

Jun 10 2008

I'm all about tryin to resolve things. If we can't get to the school system then seems to me that the starting point would be the students and the parents. Therefore, how do we get parents to become concerned enough to put up an effort to save their kids. We're loosing these kids to what is becoming a routine situation in the inner cities. I don't want to see students at Chastain or any other school in Jackson loose due to failure on the part of the adults, whether their teachers, parents, administrators, what have you....we can't take that risk any longer.

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

And what your story up there is truly damaging to this society. As I stated earlier, some teachers are not in the right profession...they're collecting pay checks and that's killing our kids off.

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

Let me apologize and take back the negative comment I madee about teachers watching children have sex, etc.. I don't beleive any self-respecting and decent teacher would do that. That would be abberant behavior at its best. I apologize to all teachers and readers who read that. I'm real busy as I have a trial starting Monday. When I'm busy I'm crazier than usual and less funny.

Walt

Jun 10 2008

It starts at with me. Queen, we can't make parents care about their children. But we can offer our services as volunteers and mentors. We can help fill the void of bad or ineffective parenting. There are alot of young parents out there who simply don't have parenting skills. We can work through community organizations to do outreach with these parents. But it starts with me. Each of us teach one.

lanier77

Jun 10 2008

Lanier77 I find that parents aren't as willing to allow another adult "handle" their kids. I don't know why. But, seems like they are offended when others seem to display the idea that they aren't doing a good job as parents, whether they are or not. Plus, someone pointed out to me that teachers are limited in what they can do in the schools as far as counseling students. So, maybe the idea would be to go out to summer programs such as the Boys and Girls Club or community centers to see if they'll allow us to come in and speak with the kids. Maybe we can reach them that way. My concern with that is that many parents can't afford to send their kids to any summer programs and those kids (the ones who sit home during the summer and watch their younger siblings to offest day care costs) are the ones who need the most attention.

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

I am one of the white parents that sends her children to private school. At one time I was a big supporter of public schools and sent my two oldest children to public schools against the wishes of my family. What changed my mind, one day I discovered that my child had skipped school and went and told the principal, and was told that since she had not set foot upon the school grounds that was my problem. I am not rich, I work two jobs to send my kids where they go, it is not a race issue, it is because I want them raised with consequences for their actions, with knowing that if they do wrong I will know, and the most important part is I want them raised in a christian enviroment. Not saying that what is going on a chastain will not happen where they go, but I will support the administration and teachers if my children are a problem.

malt

Jun 10 2008

The reason why this can be perceived as a race issue is because in the inner city - parents do not have that option. Feel blessed that you do. Not that you're rich, but black parents are not only uninformed about private schools, but they can't afford to send their kids there. I'm sure we'd all like to have the option of pulling our kids out of school so that they can get the attention they need. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I think you did a very responsible thing in looking out for your child's best interest. It would just be nice if everyone had that opportunity. We don't.

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

Queen, I think your ideas and concern about these kids and how our schools and our community are failing them is admirable. The forces you are fighting are massive, as it is the social changes and moral decay of our entire society that is at the root of many of the problems in the public schools. In terms of reaching a child, to me it all boils down to a single question: Do the parents and their social circle (relatives and family friends) value education? Because if they don't, the child won't either. No matter how you or a teacher attempts to educate a child, if they cannot see the value of it, it will mean nothing to them. Children need to see their parent(s) or caretakers value education for it to be of value to them personally. A home with parents who don't value education (except as a convenient babysitting service), provide no reading materials or other educational materials in the home to stimulate their minds, and have little to nothing to do with going to school to talk to (rather than just fuss at) the teachers, or to see their children in school activities will provide nothing for a child to value about education.

Jeff Lucas

Jun 10 2008

I agree Jeff. But I came out of a very large family of 17 children with me as the fifth one. I was the second one to finish high school, first one to go to college and the only one to go to professional school. Only one more after me attended and finished college. Only 5 more finished high school. I often say had I been exposed to books properly at an early age, required to perform even better and had any parental help or guidance toward education I would have likely turned out to be amazing considerating my god-given abilities and natural instincts to compete. Except for unyielding drive to succeed, a hatred of being poor and luck at finding a way to go to college, I'm afraid I would have been one of those persons always wondering what could have been. That's why I shelled out $10,000.00 to a small college recently despite representing poor people who don't have any money. I'll shell out some more too before the month ends to the same college.

Walt

Jun 10 2008

Actually 6 more finished high school in my family after me. The most hurtful thing to me is that most of my sisters and brothers are smart and very capable people. With racism as prominent as it is/was where we grew up, I saw education as the only way to beat the system and rise above my planned or intended lot. I was likely my father's favorite son, but clearly I was my mother's least liked. Years ago she accused me of thinking I was better than other people because I beleieved strongly in education, resited drinking alcohol, doing drugs and many other so-called fun things people did so readily. However, to make sure I didn't fail at succedding, I decided to avoid everything I thought was a waste of time, was harmful and didn't improve me. For a while my mother and I didn't have a relationship because of her views toward me. The funny thing about it is that while she liked me the least, she expected me most from me by way of provision. I finally got brave one day and said if I can't get any love from my mother the provisions will slow down or stop and they stopped for months without any collaboration or connection. She finally saw the errors in her views toward me and tried to apologize but I wouldn't listen for almost 2 years. I shocked her one day by showing up when she least expected to see me. She was amazed to see me and told my nephew, a minister, that although she was sick and ready to die from various ailments, she continued to live just to give me time to show up and us to reconcile. I'm glad we reconciled. I may tell the rest of the story some day. As I look back, probably the greatest thing I learned from my mother is that no one is better than me, and I'm no better than any one else, despite evidence to suggest otherwise. I think this is the story she wanted me to learn, and I did. EVENTUALLY.

Walt

Jun 10 2008

This is so unfortunate. I am aching from this dialogue. The idea that this is such a huge issue that the core of the problem is almost unreachable, is horribly unsettling for me. Problem is that Jeff, there are so many "young" parents who do not value education. They likely haven't finished high school themselves. If they were fortunate enough to finish, then it is likely that they still don't place a large level of value on education, even still. This problem in our community will make us (the black community) a permanent under-class. i hate to think of what tomorrow will be if we don't get a hold of today.

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

Neither of my parents had a chance to attend college and neither finished high school. My mother finished the 10th and my daddy finished the 3rd and never learned to read. My daddy could count with the best of them and wasn't signing a single document unless some of us read it first. I felt that since I had better opportunities, although I couldn't clearly see them, I had to find a way to do better for the sake of the whole family. I didn't know it until recently but my maternal grandmother said I would be the child that broke through first. She said I had it written all ove me. Thanks to the Almighty and many good people I stumbled into along the journey of high school, college and professional school, I found a way to make it somehow. Like Al Green said, The Lawd will make a way, somehow."

Walt

Jun 10 2008

Schools are overcrowded. Administrators are overburdened. Teachers are overworked. Some parents are just "over". Programs that help are underfunded. There are established mentoring programs in JPS. Want to do something in the summer. Stewpot runs a free summer camp for many inner-city kids. Want to help but don't have time to mentor? Just write a check. There are a lot of good organizations in this city that work with those youth who unfortunately have parents that don't understand the value of education - that's a fact. Let's not spend time griping about situation, let's talk about solutions.

lanier77

Jun 10 2008

Don't be discouraged, Queen. The problem does appear insurmountable when you look at it from the scale of ALL problem kids in the system. Working with a few kids at a time, however, can reap some benefits. If even ONE child is moved to get a better education and improve his/her lot in life by a timely intervention from a concerned adult, it is making a difference.

Jeff Lucas

Jun 10 2008

As far as JPS, I believe they are trying to provide the best education they can with what they are given, but it requires public involvement as well. And I'm sure they sometimes take a bad rap for things they can't control, like some of the "extracurricular" activities of their faculty. Generally public schools are only as good as the local communities demand. It is up to JPS and the parents to set the standards for their schools. If the community does not demand excellence, they won't get it.

Jeff Lucas

Jun 10 2008

Thanks jeff. Lanier77, thank you as well. I will stop by Stewpot this summer to see what I can do to help there. I appreciate you for posting that opportunity.

Queen601

Jun 10 2008

Queen wrote: “someone has to be held responsible for these kids” You are right Queen. How about their parents raising them so that they don’t copulate in toilets? Em is right, no one can watch them all the time even in toilet stalls. The research is very clear that even in poor communities, where parents are more involved and supportive the schools are better and children are more successful. Teachers and administrators need parental support. People need to accept more personal responsibility and stop blaming the government or the white man for everything. A lot of people complain about the government and schools and don’t even bother to vote! If parents and churches got focused more on our children instead of just money it would make a great difference. Queen wrote: “This problem in our community will make us (the black community) a permanent under-class.” Most African Americans are not poor. The "permanent" underclass is primarily comprised of those who do not finish high school or who have children when they are too young. Education (including parenting education and sex education) is crucial. Jeff is right. The community must demand excellence from the school system and their children and then do their part at home.

FreeClif

Jun 10 2008

I'd be interested to know when pursuit of education in the black community came to be associated w/ acting "white". I went to majority black schools back in the 70s and early 80s, and I never seemed to notice it, that is, I never noticed any obvious animosity to the black students that were good students from others, but I could be mistaken about that. i actually lived closer to Chastain then, but the way the districts were drawn up at that time, I went to Brinkley instead. Even the kids that lived east of 55 went to Brinkley, as well. But I digress. No matter what the school administrators do, there is no substitute for "home training" (a term I learned at Brinkley). I think JPS would be in better shape if they could come up with a Superintendent like Dr. Fortenberry. That was the heyday of JPS if you ask me.

bill_jackson

Jun 10 2008

I went through that "acting white" bull*shit from other blacks when I was in school in the 80s Reximus. Took me years to get over my resentment about it. I can't answer the when, but I'm pretty sure black folk didn't create the terms "nerd" and "square". They just adopted some of the anti-education attitudes and terms that were also in use in some majority white schools. Difference is those attitudes hurt our community on balance more than they did the white community.

Jeff Lucas

Jun 10 2008

I'm sure, Jeff, but back when I graduated from Callaway in 81, with a few exceptions, most of the best students weren't labeled as such, and were as "popular" as anyone else. I kind of ran w/ a wild crowd back then, but there were A+ students amongst us, both black & white. I was not one of them...

bill_jackson

Jun 10 2008

I personally know that the negative attitude among some in the African American community towards academic prowess goes at least back to the sixties. My family moved from a college campus where my father taught to a mostly working class African American neighborhood in 1968. At the same time as I was fighting white kids for attacking us and calling us n*&^%s as we integrated the previously all white elementary school, I had to come home to that neighborhood and beat down my neighbors who attacked me and called me names because I spoke "like a white boy". I could whip their buts and talk proper while doing it. Eventually, I earned their respect and they left me alone (at school and in the neighborhood). My mother was a school teacher, but long before LL Cool J, my mama told me to knock 'em out and I always tried to make her happy. She did not believe in non-violence, but in self-defense.

FreeClif

Jun 11 2008

... had to come home to that neighborhood and beat down my neighbors who attacked me and called me names because I spoke "like a white boy". It's funny but I can relate to that. My mom wasn't a college educated woman, but she was pretty damn smart and valued education and learning, so she made it a point when I was young to make sure I could read at a 1st grade level before entering kindergarden. She also drilled into me the need to speak clearly and enunciate words so that I could be understood. She also made it a point to have dictionaries around the house and to use slightly more advanced words when speaking to me so that I would have a wider vocabulary. This resulted in some scrutiny from other kids in elementary school who assumed from my speech patterns that I was either from "up North" or that I was a "white wannabe". Eventually I learned to dumb down my speech just to fit in. Looking back now it seems like such a small thing but back then it seemed like the end of the world to be picked on over it.

Jeff Lucas

Jun 11 2008

Yeah, Jeff, I learned a second language (lol). I got to the point where I used my "proper" English at school and with my parents, but learned to curse, fight and use all the slang necessary to fit into my neighborhood (lol). The churches need to step up to the plate and begin to address this spiritual poverty that leads some people to seek the lower ground rather than striving for the best that is within them. To many of us don't know outselves --- we have an inferiority complex. Too many of us have lost hope. As a child a relative told me "you are inferior none and superior to some" and I believed it. Our people need hope that they can believe in. The next African American who is called elitist by rich white people ought to break them down and tell them that rising from humble circumstances to an "elite" level is the epitomy of what is best in America. He should expound on how he has lived the American Dream. He should ask why they hate the concept of the American Dream? Is it not for people like him as well as those from wealthy, privileged backgrounds? He should learn what I learned as a kid and counterpunch. When they swing aginst you, use their momentum against them to increase the force of your counterpunch.

FreeClif

Jun 11 2008

Yeah, Jeff, I learned a second language (lol). I got to the point where I used my "proper" English at school and with my parents, but learned to curse, fight and use all the slang necessary to fit into my neighborhood (lol). You're not alone, Whitley. Just like some poeple are bilingual, many African Americans are bidialectical. We can speak standard English and African American Vernacular English (AAVE), and we know how to switch back and forth between the two, which I believe they used to call "toggling," but I'm not sure. It's a good way to survive in society and keep your street cred at the same time. (By the way, I rather say "vernacular" than "Ebonics" since that word has been made fun of to the point where it's not taken seriously any more.) When I worked in customer service, my family members joked about how I sounded on the phone when they called me. I sounded like one person when I did my standard greeting and someone totally different when I realized it was kinfolk. I went from "How may I help you?" to "Girl, whatchoo want?" LOL

LatashaWillis

Jun 11 2008

L.W., I have a friend who hosts a talk radio show and I was shocked (though I of all people should have known better) when I heard her on the radio. I told her that if I had not seen her sitting there talking I would have wondered if it was really her! W.E.B. Dubois wrote about this double existence that some of us lead "beneath the veil".

FreeClif

Jun 11 2008

Jeff, Whitley, L.W, Reximus, Kaze - all y'all are acting white. I don't see enough errors in your posts. No one has ever accused me of acting white. By the time I stop writing I don't even remember the subject I'm writing about so I don't worry about verb agreement, tense and that other crap.

Walt

Jun 11 2008

I applaud you Queen for getting a good one going on problems within our black community. I didn't really have time to read and offer anything of any substance. You're an eagle Queen, mother eagle stir their nest.

Walt

Jun 11 2008

Jeff, Whitley, LW, Reximus and Kaze I don't see enough crippling pain, utter despair, or grass root understanding in your posts. You talk about DuBois and all these other educated and uppity blacks. Y'all are either elitist blacks separated by brick walls, barricades or mental barriers from the rest of us in the black community or y'all are vicariously living outside your real or actual existence. What's up with y'all, and would y'all please stop acting white and return to the black community where we miss and need you sorely. The only time I get a glimpse of y'all is when I'm riding the bus through the rich suburbs trying to get to and from work at the dollar store. We'll leave the door open for y'all should you desire to return home.

Walt

Jun 11 2008

I think being bidialectical is RAD! If the world were different all dialects would have equal understanding. As it is, you have to speak "proper" English to get ahead in this world, so who has the right to deny someone the ability to have that power, take that power, use that power. hmph. Reminds me a little of pals I have who have dropped their Southern accents when working outside the South, cause others think them stupid.

Izzy

Jun 11 2008

To answer the million dollar question, education became synonymous with acting white once a few blacks, the Talented Tenth, or some other Negroes got a little or much education, put on a suit, tie, or good dress then threw the heads in the air like they just didn't care about those other less fortunate people. I heard many teachers say I got mines now you better get yours or else suffer.

Walt

Jun 11 2008

My apology to y'all if offended. I was only kidding. The better way to carry yourself is to wear jeans, a pullover shirt, a safari hat and drive an old beat up truck, except when forced to wear a suit in court. That way no one will think you're educated or that you matter.

Walt

Jun 11 2008

Walt wrote: "...education became synonymous with acting white once...the Talented Tenth got a little or much education, put on a suit, tie, or good dress then threw the heads in the air like they just didn't care about those other less fortunate people...". I know you jest, but there is SOME truth in that. Too many of "us" leave and turn our backs and look down on the community we came from, but we need to get away from thought processess that rob our people of a feeling of an ability to determine their own destinies IN SPITE OF persistent racism, sexism and classism. I, for one, while attending an elite university would get out to the west side of Chicago and hang out with my Vice Lord relatives as often as possible although I did feel like I was sticking out when I went out there carrying a briefcase sometimes. I love visiting my relatives in Harlem, St. Louis and Milwaukee. Some of them are rough around the edges, but I will never run away from them. Too many of us DO shun the least of these among us when we get up a little bit. More of us who have "made it" need to go back and give back. Just our presence means a lot. To just visit with them and sit on the porch. I am not the biggest fan of our mayor, but it is great that he goes out to the hood and sits on people's porches and talks with them. Too many lower income African Americans do not even have personal contact with anyone who is successful who shares their features and it contributes to a sense of alienation for these so called "elites". Being a victim can be a crutch. There is much that we can do to help OURSELVES without waiting for someone else. Yes we CAN and yes we MUST if we are to survive. We cannot depend on others for those things that we can do for ourselves.

FreeClif

Jun 11 2008

Too many of us DO shun the least of these among us when we get up a little bit. More of us who have "made it" need to go back and give back. Just our presence means a lot. You said a mouthful, Whitley. We get a little money and a house in a gated community and act like we don't know from whence we came. I say don't burn your bridges because you don't know if you may need those people somewhere down the line.

LatashaWillis

Jun 11 2008

Great fifty minutes from the Mississippi Teacher Corps about Jackson. Walks through schools in Jackson and the metro area and it's historical context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdDnJ83qmtE :)

emilyb

Jun 12 2008

Thanks for the link, Emily. Great video!

LatashaWillis

Jun 12 2008

I am all for conversations, and so often they end up at the same end: Be the change you seek. Whose accountable? You are. Here is a idea on being the change for students. Its a presentation by Dave Eggers (author) on a project he works with. http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/233 (There are some other really great videos from the TED conference on that site, you know, for those times when what you are seeking is staring at the computer screen...) [p.s. to the admin: the preview function took me to a blank window for this post]

Kat

Jun 12 2008

This is a balanced article from NYT that may interest those interested in this thread: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/opinion/13brooks.html?hp

FreeClif

Jun 13 2008

Occasional writer for the JFP, Chastain newly 7th grade parent, white girl, etc here. I've been thinking about this since reading the original post and I'm a bit peeved that these generalizations without facts to back them up are being thrown about. The only facts here are the contents of the survey and that yes it was given. I wonder how many of you have been in Chastain middle school EVER, much less when school is in session. I wonder how many of you have seen Greg Kelly and his staff in action. Let me tell you something, these are some amazing people. It is overcrowded (I do believe the new jr. high that will be built thanks to the bond issue will help with that) but they are doing amazing things. Greg Kelly knows students by name, he is in the halls and present. The teachers say it is a different place compared to the previous years and let me tell you, no school is perfect. Not the private ones, not the ones in Madison or Brandon. Kids are doing drugs there, having sex, etc... etc... I was worried about Chastain last year but it has been one of the best school years for my son. So please before you go casting stones, find out the truth (don't go by the word of a tiny minority) and help to make changes (they LOVE volunteers) instead of throwing Greg Kelly, his staff and Chastain under the proverbial bus. Thank you

tiffitch

Jun 13 2008

If we are going to talk about accountability, let's talk about being accountable for what we post in a blog. I am a Chastain Middle School parent and I am disappointed that unsubstantiated rumors such as those mentioned in the beginning of this blog were posted and assumed to be accurate by many who read them. Surely there is a more productive way to discuss the real issues that face our children and challenges that face our schools. Chastain Middle School is not the chaotic school the parents who are fed up would have you believe. In fact, my child had a great year there. I attended pep rallies, football games, ate in the cafeteria, observed classrooms, walked the halls during class changes, observed arrival and dismissal, conferenced with teachers and other parents, etc. I saw principals and teachers taking care of students - making sure they were where they were supposed to be and doing what they were supposed to do. Schools the size of CMS have problems whether they are in Jackson, Madison, public, or private. No school is perfect. But publicly assaulting a whole school population of professional educators with unsubstantiated rumors is not fair to the adults, not fair to the kids, and certainly not productive. Can we please turn this conversation around and hold ourselves accountable for being part of the solution rather than the problem?

Zana

Jun 13 2008

I understand you being peeved, that's cool. In case you missed the part where I stated "alledgedly", it is up there in the blog post that you are refering to. Problem here is that it's JUST now coming to the public eye. I am not attacking the new principal of Chastain personally. I thought I made this clear, but I will reinterate....MY CONCERN IS FOR THE CHILDREN. How do we prevent this from happening in other schools as well as Chastain? It may be a horrible picture to paint, tiffitch, but the truth is the kids are having sex on school grounds - I have spoken to some kids who have witnessed and participated - from Chastain. There are gang issues at the school...there are fights...there are blatant behavioral issues. Yes, they are happening at other schools. The reason this blog was originated was to provoke dialogue so that an end can be approached. These alledgations, while they may seem far fetched to you, really aren't that hard to believe. If Greg Kelly is doing such a wonderful job, why are these parents unhappy. And I am not exusing them of their responsibility. Mr. Kelly has much to correct, I understand that. But a great deal of attention needs to be placed on the students. Not just administrative corrections. that's where the problem comes in. Thanks for your post. Again, this post is about correcting what we've allowed to happen in these schools. Yes, I said we. We the parents, we the teachers, we the lawmakers, we the prinicpal and administration...and we the community.

Queen601

Jun 13 2008

Can we please turn this conversation around and hold ourselves accountable for being part of the solution rather than the problem? - Zana Zanae, this is exactly what this entire discussion has been about. I'm confused on the determination that it was about anything else. the conversation was actually going in a pretty positive direction. Much ground has been covered here. It is evident that everyone here is concerned about JPS, the students and Chastain. I'm not sure what the annomosity came from. I must have missed something. Still though, this is about the children and finding ways to prevent this from happening if it hasn't, and keeping it from happening again, if it has.

Queen601

Jun 13 2008

I'm not engaging in this thread (however passsionate and knowledgable I may be) for many, many reasons. :) And the fact is, and mark my words, there will be a "face and name" that will be "accountable." This face and name is someone's reputation and career. That's why I don't like the couching of "accountable." We all are in ways beyond one school. But with this school and this issue and the misinformation presented as "news", someone is accountable in a way that neither will fix the problems with parenting and education, but will also hurt a community in a way where the hurt outweighs the reward. Peace out y'all :)

emilyb

Jun 13 2008

Queen601

Jun 13 2008

Queen, I appreciate your concern for the children. I really do. But I have to ask you... Have you talked to the school administration to know that they deserve to be called "embarrassing?" and to know that they are "NOT doing the children justice?" Have the kids who reported to you that they were eyewitnesses to sexual behavior on the CMS campus reported this to the administration? Are we prepared to discredit highly respected people who have devoted their lives to serving children just to make a point about sexual behavior among middle school kids? If we need to talk about saving children, fine, let's do it. But let's not tarnish the reputation of the school's administration and let's not allow the inappropriate behavior of some students tarnish the public's perception of CMS for my son, his peers, and the many students who are proud of their school.

Zana

Jun 13 2008

Zana, hold your horses. Im the parent of a Chastain Middle School Student. So I have a dog in this fight. Accountability runs in all directions. Problem is, as Ive learned in several jobs and in running my own label, that although many different people can be the blame, accountability starts at the TOP! When NBA teams have losing records who gets fired..the COACH, the GM, not the players. Even though the coach or GM never even touch the floor or make a basket, thats the way the world works. Its not pretty or fair. But life's not fair. Take the sexual misconduct issues out of the discussion and Chastain's been in the news TWO other times in the past year. Whether true or not its going to raise red flags with parents. Defending a principal you like is a nobel gesture and I can only say it must be moderately personal for you judgeing from your post. But you are ONE parent as am I and obviously some of the parents are peeved at some of the activity. Its just like the race issue that we touch on here. Just because you dont believe it to exist and because no one has substantiated it for you. or..better yet because its happening under the tenure of an administrator you like, doesnt mean its not happening. the fact that the rumors exist alone proves that there is a problem. Period. Queen only raised the issue and she isnt the first. Just the first to blog about it here. and before my son steps foot in those halls this fall I want some clarity. Sometimes folks we like and respect with sparkling records make mistakes.

Kamikaze

Jun 13 2008

I haven't followed this thread closely due to travel and post-travel busyness, but I will say that any accusations should be factchecked. If not, they are merely rumor and should be seen as such. It strikes me that the conversation about the issues can still happen even as we urge accountability from both school administrators and people posting about rumors.

DonnaLadd

Jun 13 2008

Defending a principal you like is a nobel gesture and I can only say it must be moderately personal for you judgeing from your post. I'm not sure that follows, Kaze, from what I've seen. People should be considered innocent until proved innocent. So before accusing anyone of anything here, let's be careful about how that's done, even as we discuss difficult issues of race, etc. That can be done without unsubstantiated allegations. It looks like I'll need to have a reporter follow up on all this to get to the bottom of it.

DonnaLadd

Jun 13 2008

Thats probably the best thing. Lets get to the bottom of it. We've got random kids going to different parents saying these things are occuring and as usual some of the adults arent listening to the kids. kids who know whats goin on with their peers and who sometimes outsmart their teachers and principal. No one's saying the principal is ALLOWING this to happen. thats ridiculous. But if it is indeed happening at all the responsibility does fall at his doorstep.

Kamikaze

Jun 13 2008

From the outset, I did not think that there was enough credible and verified information given for me to form an opinion one way or another. Maybe there was something in the local news outlets that, when coupled with what is written here, would make more sense to me. However, being in and out of commission for the past few days, I may well have missed it.

Kacy

Jun 13 2008

Donna, please do. My intention was to draw a dialogue. However from the looks of it we need to have more facts for some to feel comfortable voicing their opinions. So if you could do that, it would be a great idea. Thanks.

Queen601

Jun 16 2008