Jackson Free Press

From the Mississippi CofCC Web site: "Some of our committee members met with several Mississippi House of Representative members to discuss upcoming issues that the legislature will face in 2005. One key issue of concern was the Mississippi flag. The representatives that met with the Great Southern committee promised that the flag would be protected. Also during December a few of the Great Southern committee members met with some key Mississippi Senators to discuss issues of concern. Things look good on the front in Mississippi in 2005." ...

"Great Southern CofCC president, Bill Hinson will be seeking the position of alderman in District # 1 Pearl, Mississippi. Pearl is a pretty conservative city, but as the white flight keeps moving towards Rankin County and Pearl from neighboring Jackson black flight seems to be following. Hinson knows that conservatism must remain strong in Pearl or Pearl will become a little Jackson. Pearl is 85% White and just across the Pearl River from Jackson which is 79% Black. Pearl has had 1 homocide in 2004 and Jackson 49. Hinson believes educating the youth and keeping strong moral values is the key to keeping Pearl and Rankin County safe. He will fight to keep Pearl and Rankin County conservative."

Previous Commentsshow

I love that I can't access their site because of my firewall.. Access to this web page is restricted at this time. Reason: The Websense category "Racism and Hate" is filtered.

kaust

Feb 9 2005

Over at MississippiPolitical.com, they've compiled a list of Mississippi politicians who have spoken to the Council of Conservative Citizens.

DonnaLadd

Feb 9 2005

Tiny correction, Donna. I don't know that everyone on this list has spoken at a CofCC meeting (although a large portion of them definately have). Some of them were listed in the CofCC newsletter as having "attended." The interesting little tidbit, to me at least, is that only one out of that whole list, so far as I know at the present time, has ever publicly repudiated the CofCC. Guess who..... If there is proof of a public repudiation by any other Mississippi politician that anyone can provide me, I would love to see it, and put them on the "redeemed" list. This does not count politicians who say they had no idea what the CofCC was about when they went (and then didn't take it a step further). I don't care if you think they are sincere or not, just send me the public repudiations, and I'd call that a step in the right direction.

C.W.

Feb 9 2005

To all: C.W. does the Mississippi Political.com Web site. C.W., we asked Ben Allen about speaking to the CofCC in our JFP interview with him. This is what he said: Have you ever spoken to the Council of Conservative Citizens? Yes. It was my first year in office, 1997, 98. [Editorís note: The June 2000 issue of the Citizensí Informer, the newspaper of the CofCC, indicated that Allen spoke to a "capacity" meeting of Greater Jackson chapter of the group in April 2000 "about the removal of the Miss. State flag from the Jackson City Council Chambers by the majority black members on the Council ...."] Did you know what the Council of Conservative Citizens was when you spoke to them? I knew it was a conservative group. I knew damn near nothing about politics when I got involved. If they ask me back to speak again (hands in air), you know I can tell you this: I donít want to denigrate any organization; they can do what they want to do. I would not now or ever be a member of it; I wouldnít support it. I donít know that much about it. I do know this: Many times there are groups that can be wonderful, and there are groups that can be terrible. What do you think, C.W.? Is that a non-repudiation-repudiation? ;-) It is interesting to know that the Citizens Informer reported that Allen spoke to the group AFTER the Lott dust-up when it would have been very difficult to have not known what they were about. One thing I don't buy at all are the politicians who say that they "didn't know what the group was about." I know this is politically sensitive, but I would respect politicians more who just admitted that they didn't think they could win office without talking to this group. That's not a good excuse, but it rings true-er than not knowing what they were about. Do we really want elected representatives who don't know the history of our state?

DonnaLadd

Feb 9 2005

Why would you speak for a group without first investigating what they were about? Hell, if someone called me tomorrow and asked me to speak on GLBT issues, I'd sure as hell make sure it wasn't a setup for a bashing or exorcism... In the political arena, you'd think you could get a gopher to do some basic research to cover all bases... You certainly don't see Bush speaking at Gay Prides for a reason.

kaust

Feb 9 2005

Knol- I couldn't access the link either. I'm waiting for Websense to figure out that the JFP page is also a blog and start filtering it as well.

Justin

Feb 9 2005

We're talking about the same Ben Allen who is always touting his long time Mississippi roots? The same Ben Allen who grew up in Vicksburg and has been tight with the Fordice family since he was a very young man? The same name dropping Ben Allen who knows just about everybody in Mississippi? If you believe that Ben Allen didn't know a lick about the CofCC and what they were about BEFORE he spoke to them then consider yourself a fool. You can hardly call that a stirring repudiation.

Proud To Be Right

Feb 9 2005

I didn't call it a stirring repudiation. ;-)

DonnaLadd

Feb 9 2005

To me this is not a repudiation. It's just a long-winded version of the "I-didn't-know-the-gun-was-loaded-and-I'll-never-ever-do-it-again" excuse. I don't even want to hear if someone knew before they went or not; I don't care, because there is no way to prove or disprove that, so it's a waste of time to ask that question or listen to that excuse again. What I want to hear is something along this line (clearly and unmistakably articulated, however they want to put it): "I will not ever support the CofCC in any way, including supporting and validating them by my presence." Of course, "They are scum and I will never associate with them again." would work, too. (smile). Hey, is this the same Ben Allen who was making fun of the Medicaid activists last year, yelling at them and waving a sheaf of money at them as he passed in a car? Or was that some other group of protestors?

C.W.

Feb 9 2005

If Ben spoke at the NAACP would that even him out? :D The CofCC, which previous to Lott's little gaffe I thought had died off in the seventies, can't possibly make that last part sound any more offensive, can they?

Ironghost

Feb 10 2005

If Ben spoke at the NAACP would that even him out? :D Saved by a smiley face! Until I realized you're joking, I was about to harangue you, Ironghost, for the ludicrous suggestion that the NAACP and the CofCC are moral equivalents. Then I saw the smile and realized that you know better. ;-) The CofCC actually was the follow-up to the Citizens Council and used its mailing list to get started. It claims to have been very powerful in the 1970s, 80s and to the present. All those politicians who keep parading before them seem to think, or least give, them much more power than they deserve.

DonnaLadd

Feb 10 2005

The Daily Mississippian is now carrying the list off the SPLC site: http://www.thedmonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/10/420aa5b68358f

C.W.

Feb 10 2005

The thing to do is keep playing up and playing up and playing up this issue until the mock phrase "Council of Caricature Cro-magnons" becomes cliche. Heck, do a big story focusing on it and make it a cover story of it - with a provocative cover. That'll generate some buzz.

Philip

Feb 10 2005

C.W., thanks for the update. I see they posted it today. Excellent. Let's talk about it all, everything on the table. That's called "Truth & Reconcilation." And Philip, you crack me up. ;-)

DonnaLadd

Feb 10 2005

Whoa, that SPLC link is something else, complete with photos of Mississippi lawmakers who hobnobbed with the CofCC and the details of it. I hadn't seen that page! Now it'd be interesting to cross-reference these folks with their voting records and see if anything interest trends pop up, huh? Like say, on training schools ...

DonnaLadd

Feb 10 2005

The creepiest one to me is Kay Cobb: she's a judge! And how about Shannon Warnock -- now appointed to the Pardons and Parole Board! I think I'm going to be ill.

DonnaLadd

Feb 10 2005

You're kidding, you hadn't seen that page before? I would have zipped it over if I had realized. That's the piece several Mississippi papers had articles about in the recent past (including a Bill Minor piece and a related Joe Adkins piece). I'm sure that the C/L had something on the SPLC page as well, but I've lost that link. I wish I had converted it to .pdf http://www.djournal.com/pages/story.asp?ID=72492&pub=1&div=Opinion http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13811181&BRD=1838&PAG=461&dept_id=126930&rfi=6 http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050130/OPINION/501300309/1200

C.W.

Feb 10 2005

I knew SPLC had posted something, but I didn't know they had pictures (which makes it especially cree-pee since I see these legislators at the Capitol all the time). I have to admit that I knew about these folks speaking to CofCC since I ran into that Texas professor's site (the guy who tracks CofCC) last summer when we were doing searches on Ben Allen. He has indexes of all the Citizen Informer newspapers listing who spoke to CofCC and when -- from the C.I. I know, your next question is why I hadn't run the list already. Well, because I didn't have all the original sources to prove it. I had him fax me a copy of the paper that talked about Allen speaking to the CofCC, so that I had backup when we put it in his interview. But he couldn't fax me the whole thing, obviously: that would have been pages and pages of the newpapers. So I hadn't run the list, but I was pleased when I heard that it was being exposed by other media. I'm a little surprised, though, that the big media hadn't exposed many of these names before; much of this has been out there for a while apparently. But what can I say: I didn't put it all out there as soon as I knew it, either? And better later than never. Anyway, C.W., that's the inside-baseball back story. ;-)

DonnaLadd

Feb 11 2005

Sorry ladd, I don't mean to hand out heart attacks. :) I can't believe that many legislators speak to these people without knowing who they are. Surely most of them had to know something? On the other hand, I really don't want to think that many people in government still hold on to outdated ideas like the CofCC holds. It makes Pearl seem creepier and creepier all the time, and reinforces my hatred of the current MS flag.

Ironghost

Feb 11 2005

I just found another article in the DM: http://www.thedmonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/02/10/420bf514be890 There's also another young man who maintains a list on his Hungry Blues blog: http://minorjive.typepad.com/hungryblues/2004/12/information_on_.html I think there is a momentum building and some of these guys would be well-advised to stand up quickly and disassociate themselves from the CofCC. I agree with Ironghost that it's hard to believe any of our political figures don't know who the CofCC is. While I'm not saying that all these politicians who attended or spoke are in agreement with all the CofCC stuff, I think it's obvious they are "lying with the dogs" for political expediency. Votes. What's going to tip it for a lot of our elected leaders is finding it's more politically expedient to distance themselves, and that time is coming. Faster and faster. That may be a cynical view of things, but politics is a cynical business.

C.W.

Feb 11 2005

I forgive you, Iron. ;-) The confounding thing is that I think a small group of people have these politicians in a head lock -- starting with men like Haley Barbour who helped build the Southern Strategy. I actually agree that "most" Mississippians do not support the racist bullshit of the CofCC (yes, "racist"; not even coded), but these white politicians are afraid of their shadows. Literally. Their CofCC shadows. As MAllen said on another thread, though, it's up to white Republicans to stop this madness, by refusing to kowtow to these relics of the past (who are holding all of us back from "moving on"). And it's up to decent Mississippians to call them out and to stop voting for people who want us still peeing in separate bathrooms. Gross.

DonnaLadd

Feb 11 2005

Good the Daily Mississippian. It will be LOVELY to see the Ole Miss student newspaper help lead the charge to stamp out the southern strategy once and for all.

DonnaLadd

Feb 11 2005

Interesting, C.W.! I'm finding the conspiracy aspect is luring me into finding all this worth digging through, despite the always icky feeling I get rehashing MS history Yet Again. You'll pardon me, however, if I can't vote democratic automatically after reading all this; I still don't trust them either. I'm still thinking politicans know the score, yet would rather "lie with dogs" like someone said up there, rather than distance and disassociate with the CofCC. I'm waiting for the Clarion Liberal to pick this up.

Ironghost

Feb 11 2005

i thinks its a hallmark characteristic of immature human beings(some children and all white supremists)that they want some attention-even NEGATIVE attention.sometimes i wonder if their being in the media is a good thing.i mean, are they slapping each other on the back right now,going"boy, howdy,did you see our buddy the reverend on news channel 12 last night? its about time we got some ATTENTION,yeehaw". it's just so hard to believe that anyone gets past their WE DONT WANT NO N__GERS message to give them any attention at all. i hate people like that even being in the same SENTENCE with the word republican.i hope that young impressionable people don't think that's typical of the right-wing. it's not, you know. hey- what's this "southern strategy"? will someone please enlighten me? i lead a sheltered life.

KWHIT

Feb 11 2005

Hey, Iron, it's not about voting Democratic. Fighting racism should be non-partisan. And if today's Republican Party needs to start leading the way ... again.

DonnaLadd

Feb 11 2005

K, in a nutshell, the "southern strategy" is the political strategy that really began in the 1960s when the national Democratic Party decided to start supporting civil rights and, thus, southern segregationists defected the party -- to the failing Republican Party, thanks to a "brilliant" idea by then-ultra conservative Barry Goldwater* that the GOP could get more votes in support of Republican plans to benefit the rich if they started pandering to white racists in the South. The plan really took hold during the Nixon administration and came into full fruition during Reagan's first race for president in 1980. The "new" southern strategy is said to have been birthed at the Neshoba County Fair when Ronald Reagan kicked off his campaign there, with a young Haley Barbour by his side. Barbour, and the late Lee Atwater, are largely credited with putting this "coded" race strategy into place. In other words, the openly segregationist rhetoric of the old Democrats (Dixiecrats) became the coded race rhetoric of the new Republican Party. The whole idea has been to appeal to southerners' worst instincts by using coded race messages -- from George Bush speaking to Bob Jones University to Haley Barbour's attack on Ronnie Musgrove for "attacking our flag." "Welfare queens." Willie Horton ads. Candidates speaking to the Council of Conservative Citizens. Whining about racial quotas (although the Supreme Court struck them down long ago). And so on. It's racist fear-mongering, and it's the reason I have so little respect for the modern Republican Party. I don't understand how any self-respecting person can go along with these strategies. And I can't wait to see modern young Republicans rise up and say, "that's enough. We don't want the racist vote." I don't think the Republican Party will last many more years if that doesn't happen: you can only make a deal with the devil for so long before he comes callin'. And I'm glad you asked: one of the tragedies of this strategy is that some people who call themselves Republican don't know it's happening. But it's real, and easy to learn more about if you look and pay attention. That is, the current Republican Party is not the Party of Lincoln. The parties switched starting in the 1960s, at least on this front. It has allowed itself to become the Party of Strom. I couldn't possibly identify with such a party -- however, I do have a certain respect for people who are trying to change the party from within. But there's a lot of work to be done, still. * Goldwater became a progressive late in life after he did the damage in the 1960s. Go figure.

DonnaLadd

Feb 11 2005

Hmmm, does anyone discuss anything other than race on this board? How about some topics about all the orange cones on the interstae? Or why people insist on driving 10 mph in the waterworks when there is no wreck?

RightonTarget

Feb 11 2005

Hmmm, does anyone discuss anything other than race on this board? Then pick a thread or story that's not about race and have it. There are plenty on the site, including the development threads in the Forums. Or, start your own, in accordance with the User Agreement. BTW, Right, please calm down a bit with your postings. You really don't need to fill the whole "Recent Comments" all in a sitting. That's considered bad netiquette, and we discourage it in our User Agreement. Pick a thread or two that you feel strongly about and get into a good discussion, rather than leaving "droppings" all over the place, please.

DonnaLadd

Feb 11 2005

I'm still having a hard time buying the argument that Republicans deliberately play the racism game in the 21st century. I guess I'd rather see them as ignoratly opportunistic rather than blatently evil. IN the end, none of us wants to see Rankin County become a "little South Africa".

Ironghost

Feb 11 2005

I'm still having a hard time buying the argument that Republicans deliberately play the racism game in the 21st century. I guess I'd rather see them as ignoratly opportunistic rather than blatently evil. I hear you, but the fact is that the race-based "southern strategy" is very real. It's not just a theory. In fact, the Repubs will often brag about its success. Still, I don't think that everyone who goes along with it is "blatantly evil." Seriously misguided, or in unbelievable denial perhaps, but not "blatantly evil." After all, you can't say that everyone who went along with Jim Crow is "blatantly evil," or I don't believe that. It would indict a whole lot of folks if we did. And it wouldn't exactly further understanding; it would simply contribute to division, as we saw much of the finger-pointing over the Obadele appearance do over the last week or so. IN the end, none of us wants to see Rankin County become a "little South Africa" Then or now? ;-) I think are certainly folks who'd like to see apartheid in Rankin County, and no racial reconcilation. But I believe there are more who want truth and reconciliation.

DonnaLadd

Feb 11 2005

Donna, on getting those names out there - it's tough. I had already promised to hunt down all I could find and put them on my website, but when I went through the files of that same professor, googled stories from Mississippi newspapers, and looked through the little articles the CofCC has on their websites that name people who attended or spoke at their meetings, I was totally blindsided by a name of a person I know personally, a person I've always respected. I faltered then, and came close to abandoning it, but I kept thinking about it and finally decided the truth needed to be out there. It's the apparent approval of the CofCC by respected public officials that is a mainstay of the CofCC, and that's the very thing I'd like to see exposed. I think a little sunlight might have a very beneficial effect. The strange thing is that a lot of the smaller papers carry "fluff" articles of the sort you might see about the local Rotary Club meeting and put the names out there (you just have to keep an eye and a google news alert out for those). And that's one of the ways that CofCC can present itself to many people as mainstream - to read those articles, you'd think it was a benign social/political event, a barbecue, a fish supper, nothing else.

C.W.

Feb 12 2005

Not to defend the CoCC - I don't care for them at all. But while were buy at compling the names of politicians who've attended and/or spoken at these events, has anyone compiled a list (or is there one?) of black politicians who've attended the Black Hawk Rally (I think that is the name of the biggest political gathering each year; correct me if I'm wrong). I don't know that any black candidates have spoken there, but I'm almost positive that some black candidates have attended.

MAllen

Feb 12 2005

Ironghost, you said "You'll pardon me, however, if I can't vote democratic automatically after reading all this; I still don't trust them either." I agree with you. Here is something for you to think about on the local and state level, though. The old Democrats in Mississippi were Dixiecrats, not Democrats as the party of civil rights. The fact that the Republican Party in Mississippi has had such success in wooing those Dixiecrats to their party, and that they are gaining momentum in party-switching ought to tell you something. You said, "I'm still thinking politicans know the score, yet would rather "lie with dogs" like someone said up there, rather than distance and disassociate with the CofCC." I said that. Politicians don't usually do something unless they stand to gain from it, so obviously they believe they're gaining votes. That's why we need to make associating with racists a matter of general public knowledge. I still believe in the people of Mississippi, if not the politicians, when it comes right down to the nitty gritty. If this gets enough exposure, going to CofCC meetings will lose them more votes than it gains them. You said, "I'm waiting for the Clarion Liberal to pick this up." They've already picked around the edges of it, but don't hold your breath for a big expose unless enough outside pressure builds to make their power structure worry about looking stupid, blind and/or condoning of these activities. State politicians are the C/L's stock and trade, and I don't believe they'll allow their reporters to do anything substantial until they feel forced to do so, no matter how much cover-up noise they may make to appear to be trying to get the truth out to their subscribers. That's what happened when Haley Barbour's picture appeared on the CofCC website. I wrote the C/L a letter about it and I know of a couple of other people who did as well, and we got no response from the C/L until everyone else was talking about it - on blogs and in the JFP. The frustration of getting no response from the mainstream media was why I finally started my own website. I'd been thinking about it, but it appeared to involve so much unpaid work, I was reluctant to take it on. And it has proved to be just that - a lot of unpaid work. I hope that I'm actually doing something worthwhile that needs doing, otherwise, I'd just call it quits.

C.W.

Feb 12 2005

MAllen, you're right, they attend, and if anyone should stop, black politicians should. I'd imagine that a lot of their constituents would be very unhappy to know they'd been seen at a CofCC function. For some reason or other, though, the CofCC doesn't do a lot of naming of the particular black politicians, and neither do the black politicans (smile). That information is much harder to come by. I know some attend, but I don't have any proof of who they are. If you have a reliable and provable source for the names of those black politicians, email me. I'll put their names right up beside the white politicians. I've thought about going to some of these meetings with a camera, but I'm not too familiar with the faces of a lot of the state politicians who are not in my area. And somehow, I don't think I'd be allowed to continue taking pictures for long, do you?

C.W.

Feb 12 2005

Not to defend the CoCC - I don't care for them at all. But while were buy at compling the names of politicians who've attended and/or spoken at these events, has anyone compiled a list (or is there one?) of black politicians who've attended the Black Hawk Rally Isn't it true, Matt, that the Black Hawk Rally is sponsored by the CofCC? I've got info on this somewhere. Will dig it out. (I think that is the name of the biggest political gathering each year; correct me if I'm wrong). I don't know that any black candidates have spoken there, but I'm almost positive that some black candidates have attended. Yes, some black candidates have spoken at Black Hawk, as they do at the Neshoba County Fair -- despite the sea of Confederate flags. One of the disservices that the state's media do on these rallies -- especially Sid Salter over at The Ledge -- is romanticize them as these old-style political rallies. Well, yeah, they are--in about every way imaginable. But even Democratic (or "progressive," if we have those here ) feel like they must speak at these rallies -- however ridiculous they seem speaking to a crowd filled mostly with angry far-right-wingers. (Hey, I'm from Neshoba; I can say this.) Then, folks like Kirk Fordice use the events to go after folks like Dick Molpus ON HIS CIVIL RIGHTS record, and somehow this is all fine and dandy, and these rallies are oh, so important, and the media gush all over them. My question is: Why don't the media give the full picture of these rallies/political bumps in the road for what they really are? Either force them with publicity to become more inclusive, or stop writing about them as if they are all that? As for the black politicians and anybody else offended by the setting and such, they should not speak there, IMHO. Start right now, and step up against this racist legacy crap. Non-racist Republicans should do the same thing. It's only conventional wisdom if we let folks like Salter tell us it is.

DonnaLadd

Feb 12 2005

C.W. I don't think you need any coaching from me about this, but I'll say it anyway. Have you ever thought about printing up flyers and leaving them in lots of places (Ole Miss ought to be ideal, given it's a pretty political campus. placing one or two at mundane newspaper stands throughout your area might generate results too - especially if your site is named the way it is). A little advertizing goes a long way.

Philip

Feb 12 2005

Donna My question is: Why don't the media give the full picture of these rallies/political bumps in the road for what they really are? Either force them with publicity to become more inclusive, or stop writing about them as if they are all that? Philip: Perhaps the Philadelphia Coalition can do something about this... not to mention the state candidates' association with the Council of Caricature Cro-Magnons

Philip

2005-02-12T15:18:45-06:00

ID

131355

Comment

Thanks for the suggestions, Phillip. I have thought of doing some promotion, but have vacillated for several reasons. I'm not sure if you were addressing a need to get the word out and garner more attention to the "state of our state", or if you were addressing my comment about doing a lot of unpaid work, because all I have of a commercial nature on my site is that one "generic" google ad spot, which has nearly generated enough money to pay for one month's hosting fee. (smile) I have thought about doing a little something to raise money to pay for part of my time on there, but am still in the "pondering" stage.

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-02-13T12:31:47-06:00

ID

131356

Comment

I'm still having a hard time buying the argument that Republicans deliberately play the racism game in the 21st century. I guess I'd rather see them as ignoratly opportunistic rather than blatently evil. IN the end, none of us wants to see Rankin County become a "little South Africa". (ironghost) ----------- its not an argument, it is a reality. for a few years now i've worked to deal with race-related voter intimidation tactics and election tactics (as in, this was my JOB to deal w/ these things) and its VERY much alive now, perhaps more so now than 10-20 years ago because we've moved to a 2 party system in this state. before it was 'old line' democrats (read:racist) and new dems. now the line and the tactics have shifted. i think it IS very sad. It took 100 years, but the dems tossed out the openly racist groups in its party. Now its the GOP's turn and it will be a long time in coming.

Author

jp!

Date

2005-02-14T01:10:23-06:00