Jackson Free Press

Jackson Mayor Harvey Johnson Jr. is having one hell of a year. On the one hand, the Vicksburg native has presided over a city for six years that seems to have shifted into high-gear renaissance mode, or certainly as high gear as re-development has been in this city since harmful out-migration to the suburban areas began decades ago. About everywhere you look in the city, it seems there is construction; dilapidated buildings are being razed; a city that has been left to decay for many years by other administrations seems set on re-inventing itself at a slow, if steady, pace. Yet, there is a dark side.

Especially as his re-election campaign approaches, many critics proclaim that the mayor lacks "vision" and takes far too long to make decisions. Earlier this year, the city saw a spike in crimes, especially property crimes and home robberies, and a frenzy of media reports started accusing Johnson, along with Police Chief Robert Moore, of not taking crime seriously enough, and criticized them for their warnings that "perception" that crime is out of control can be harmful to a community. The negative press coverage has been relentless on this point, rather paradoxically blaming the mayor for creating the negative perception problem that he and Moore have warned against.

This simmering city-vs.-media stand-off started boiling recently when The Clarion-Ledger published a four-part series on "The Changing Face of Jackson" that concluded that the mayor lacked "leadership" for dealing with the problems of racism and out-migration that it claimed to have unearthed after nine months of research. On Nov. 16, Clarion-Ledger executive editor Ronnie Agnew wrote: "So far, there is one key person still not on board about the existence of the magnitude of the problem, and until he realizes the need for change, progress will be difficult to accomplish. That person is Mayor Harvey Johnson Jr." Meantime, Johnson says the paper will not print his side of the story.

Johnson agreed to sit down with the JFP for nearly an hour and a half in his office to answer questions—which he did not receive ahead of time—about his vision for the city and his frustrations over local media coverage. The mayor started out detailing what he is most proud of in the city—especially "development mode" and his staff's strong efforts to get their message directly to residents by bypassing the media gatekeepers who, he says, are not telling the story correctly. The entire interview is posted on the JFP Web site; here we join the interview with the second question.

DL: What has frustrated you most as mayor?
HJ: The largest frustration is really getting the word out about all the things happening in the city and the changes we're making for years and years to come. Since we've been in development mode, we've been implementing projects [that will] be in the life and history of the city. Look at the Congress Street project: brick inlaid, pedestrian friendly, park benches, period lighting. … But the big news when we were doing that project was there was a bump on Capitol Street that slowed down traffic and affected business. Sometimes progress does that.

DL: So the media coverage hasn't been balanced in your view?
HJ: No. There are so many things happening in the city; there's a lot of news on perhaps what's happening or what's bad, but there's no balance. We just want balance: Jackson is the largest city and the capital. I'm not complaining; I would just like to see some balance to what's going on. We're trying to give people reason to be proud of the Capital City. There are forces at play that apparently want people to be ashamed of the Capital City.

DL: Do you believe the unbalanced media coverage is unique to your administration?
HJ: I can't speak to that; I was on the outside then. I can recall the media having a very strong role, at least the newspaper (The Clarion-Ledger), in attacking the police chief in the past and helping to usher him out. I'm not sure that's a new technique. Given what (progress) is happening in the city now compared to what has happened over last 20 years, it should be obvious that more things are going on in our city than before. The office vacancy rate is about 9 percent compared to 17 percent nationwide. Downtown Jackson, it's like 8 percent. [In media accounts,] everyone is moving out to Highland Colony Parkway. That's the story you hear. There are some silver linings in the clouds; we want those silver linings to be shown, too.

DL: Do your critics, including the media, compare you unfairly to your predecessors?
HJ: I don't see any comparison. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on any of my predecessors. I don't see people saying what the crime rate was 10 years ago compared to now; 90-some people were killed (a year) during that period of time. I don't see them comparing what's spent on capital expenditures and improvements, and why we need now to deal with improvements to water and sewer to the extent that have to deal with that. I see, Jackson started in 1997; everything that happened in '97 on is my responsibility to deal with. I'm not shirking that responsibility. I need to be clear on that. I understand clearly what my responsibilities are; I am doing the best I can to address both the problems I inherited and what came about since I've been in office. That's what mayors do. I'm not casting aspersions on anyone.

Look at the out-migration patterns; when did they start: in the 1970s, not between 1990 and 2000. What kind of development policies were made then that encouraged development on the outside of city that's taking place now: transportation, taxing policy decisions, where new industrial parks were located. That kind of analysis will probably not be done, but it's the kind of things in my thought processes. These things do not happen in a vacuum; a lot of things happen now because of decisions made years ago. Why isn't the airport in Hinds instead of Rankin County? Why isn't Northpark in Jackson instead of Ridgeland? Decisions made a long time ago impact decisions now. What if the airport were in Edwards?

DL: At the conclusion of The Clarion-Ledger's recent "Changing Faces" series, they blamed you for not taking a strong enough "leadership" role in solving the city's problems. What's going on there? Why are so many people complaining about your "leadership"?
HJ: "Leadership" is intangible; they can't wrap anything else around my neck, so they'll wrap that around there. Perhaps I'm not the type leader that they want; it's alright for them to opine that, but to fabricate their case is a problem. What they've been saying is that I don't have vision, while we've been operating under the the Best of the New South banner since I've been in office. ... [This] is unfair quite frankly. Look at any area: development, education, or housing, or seatbelt safety or gun violence. I've visited every school in the city of Jackson to talk about gun violence. I've asked for pledges from over 15,000 students. …l'm a strong advocate of public education. My leadership there I don't think could be challenged. When [The Clarion-Ledger says] I'm lacking leadership, people should ask, "What does that mean?" To me that means I'm not doing what they want me to do … I ask them to use their bully pulpit in a fair way, because they expect me to do that with my bully pulpit.
In terms of leadership, The Clarion-Ledger has responsibility, too. It's the largest newspaper in the state of Mississippi; it's domiciled in the state capital. … It needs to make sure the state capital progresses and prospers, not try to tear it down by tearing down the quote-unquote leadership they don't agree with. That's what I see happening, unfortunately. One time, that paper was a tool of opponents of the Civil Rights Movement, of people who wanted to maintain the status quo. Now it appears to be becoming a tool of people who want to perhaps take us back or [don't] agree with the political will of the people.

DL: Are you effectively using the bully pulpit? How can you harness the forces, especially amid loud political games and the upcoming re-election campaign?
HJ: You stay quite busy. You go to a lot of people, shake lot of hands, look a lot of people in the eye and talk to them about the future of the city. You talk about reality: Jackson is the trunk of the tree … as goes Jackson, so goes Mississippi. Try to convince them that for all the right reasons people are to be behind Jackson moving ahead and prospering. You become the drum major, the cheerleader.

DL: But what about all the complaining about "perception"? Why is perception important to talk about?
HJ: Let's get back to paper with statewide circulation; they devote all this ink to poo-pooing Jackson. That goes statewide; their readership does not coincide with the demographics of Jackson. People get this impression of what's going on in the city of Jackson. Of course, crime is part of that. It's not about the numbers; it's about people's perception, the "safety quotient." How do they feel? Do they feel safe? It doesn't matter if crime numbers are down if people don't feel safe. Perception depends in part on how crime is played in the media and how vocal the victims are. Victims are becoming more vocal. We have three bank robberies … the media acts like we're the bank robbery capital of the world. I've stayed away from citing numbers to people. The chief is challenging those who say they don't believe the numbers; he is inviting them inside to see how it really works.

DL: The Clarion-Ledger and the TV stations might say all this is happening because they have so diligently exposed crime in the city.
HJ: (Laughed loudly.) When I was first elected, I was committed to focus on crime and make people feel safe. That's why we did the Linder-Maple study: It was an effort to dissect the police department, not on the instigation of The Clarion-Ledger, but out of my commitment to try to fight crime … [we got] a blueprint to address problems inside the department and the problems that won't allow us to reduce crime as quickly as we want to. My first police recruit class was No. 24; we're now ready to have class No. 38; you do the numbers. We've adjusted police salaries—you may have heard about lawsuits going on—and made adjustments to salaries, and career development, and not at the instigation of The Clarion-Ledger. I want to have a police force that is second to none. We have constantly gone back to Congress to get money for technical equipment, video cams, computers, the kind of technology that we simply did not have six, seven years ago—to help fight crime even better in the city. ... I think they can take credit for heightened awareness, and I'm being kind, regarding crime. Ten years ago, the city had 90 homicides. One year saw a slight increase in murders; the paper started a body count—until it looked like it was not going to break last year's record; all of a sudden, the body count went away. They'll only do a body count if it looks like it'll be worse than the year before.

DL: The Clarion-Ledger complained that you did not publicly excoriate Kenneth Stokes for his recent statements about race and redistricting. Why didn't you?
HJ: I went to an editorial board meeting and told them why; they didn't see fit to print it. What I pointed out to them was they're creating an opportunity for the pain that is just below the surface in a large segment of our community to rise to the top. Sometimes it's not healthy to do that. I can remember drinking out of colored water fountains, riding in the back of buses, sitting in movie theaters in the balcony. … We're not so far away in Mississippi from the time we were treated as second-class citizens. Part of the process of moving past [that] was the political process. You have to be very careful: you don't fuel a condition that will further divide us or bring up those old wounds. My position was and still is that Councilman Stokes is Councilman Stokes. He is responsible and accountable for his actions and his comments. I am not. By the paper and others heightening, if you will, the discourse around that simply brings up conditions that are going to polarize people along racial lines, quite frankly. I didn't think we needed that. It's proven factual: It allowed yahoos, thinking way out to the right, to come in and dog-cuss his statements, when the whole tone of their statements was racist, and yet they're calling [Stokes] racist. Racism is the act of oppression; we throw that term out so freely: that so and so is a racist. It's oppression; some of the people in the room on that editorial board should know that, but they've forgotten what oppression is like. I'm not going to be oppressed anymore, and I am not going to perpetuate racism, and allow it to raise its ugly head again.

DL: There's a lot of conflicting talk about race in Jackson. Some people want race issues discussed openly; others say it's "racist" to talk about race. Is there a disconnect between blacks and whites? What are you doing to bridge the gaps? Are there forces trying to widen those gaps?
HJ: My role is to be mayor for all the people and propel this city forward given the diversity that's here. Sometimes that means having a frank discussion about race and about those things that are offensive, those things that people need to understand. It's a difficult discussion to engage in, I'll admit that. I quite frankly don't think that The Clarion-Ledger is the proper forum to engage in that. I think there's still institutional racism at The Clarion-Ledger; it is not the right forum. The whole "Changing Faces of Jacksonԗwhat does that mean? Why not "Changing Landscapes" or "Jackson On the Move?" Faces are different, going from black to white to yellow. The (race) discussion has to take place in a way that each community must understand that some things are going to be said that are offensive to the other. Without trying to sound like a victim, we have to understand that black people in this state were oppressed just a few years ago within my generation. They really were treated as second-class citizens, really were lynched, beaten, not allowed to do things simply for their color. That's not something that's imagined; that's real. For whites to say, "Let's forget about the pastԗthat's very difficult to do. To some extent, it is offensive. It is hard sometimes for that to be articulated. ... We've got to get past the notion that we don't want to talk about (race) because it's offensive.

DL: When were you interviewed by The Clarion-Ledger for the "Changing Faces" series? Did they approach you early in the process?
HJ: I wasn't. We started raising sand after they ran two parts. They then decided to take a time out and bring the mayor in, and asked some "vision" questions and didn't print (my answers).

DL: The paper didn't sit down with you during the nine months they researched this series?
HJ: After a City Council work session five days before the series started, a reporter came and said they had been having these focus groups, and we've got four questions to ask you. I said, "You've gone through the whole process and you expect me to answer these questions on the spur of moment after a work session?" I told them to put them in writing. That was the interview. They made no attempt to sit down with me to get quote-unquote my side of the story at all.

DL: You weren't asked to any focus groups?
HJ: No. People (who attended focus groups) would come up to me, like it was a big secret and … ask for my forgiveness for going, like it was a witch-hunt. The mayor of Gary (Ind.) was interviewed a year or year and a half ago (for "Changing Faces"). The impression I get is they don't want to get my side out. My impression is that it's a hatchet job on me. I could be wrong.

DL: Many of your critics, including writers in the daily paper, advocate a return to the "glory years" and the "stellar past" of Jackson. In your mind, when were those glory years? Is there a time in Jackson's past that should be closely emulated now?
HJ: You've got to be careful of setting a goal to return to the past, especially in this state. If you're talking about Jackson being the center of activity for the metro area when people come to town for certain amenities they can't receive from outside of town, that's good. Eventually we'll get there with the city. Cities all across the country are on the rise; we will be in that tide. …The glory years in terms of political power and economic power, where the few are enjoying disproportionate benefits of this city, should not be returned to. That's why I was elected. I wasn't elected to maintain the status quo. I was elected to change the conditions that too many of our citizens had labored under for years and years and years, and in process make Jackson a better city.

DL: The complaint I hear about you more than any other, even from your supporters, is that you take way too long to make decisions and to implement projects. How do you respond?
HJ: I don't think that's true. The whole process, within a temporal framework, has to be put into perspective. With development projects, it's amazing how the media have honed in on the time that it takes things to be done. High Street took too long, they said. The project was dependent on weather; it's an outdoor project. At the same time, the state projected that I-220 was supposed to be open this spring (2003); now they say spring 2004. The same kind of inquiry is not made of the state, that it takes too long, or can't make decisions. ... It's not a matter of taking too long to make decisions. If I moved more quickly, I would be accused of making a hasty decision. In the final analysis, judge me on the progress the city is making. The city is progressing at a rate more rapid than it has progressed in past. We've faced a lot of tough times around finance; decisions made have been good ones that allowed us to keep our bond rating, not lay off people or minimize or cut services. As long as we're moving ahead, I'll live with (the) whole notion of taking too long.

DL: What did it take so long to hire a police chief?
HJ: I was not moving at the pace some people wanted me to move. We had a candidate for chief, but it didn't work out. The candidate was close to signing on the dotted line. We informally passed out feelers and then went through a formal process. There wasn't any time at all when I wasn't attentive to the need to fill that position. … Being inattentive to an issue is not a trait of mine; some say I'm too attentive to too many issues. I've moved to address those situations in as timely a matter as I can.

DL: What about Farish Street? You're accused of taking too long to restore it.
HJ: (Laughing) Yes, it's taken 50 years; who else has done anything about it? The King Edward? Who's done anything about it? The parkway? They hadn't acquired any land before I came into office. This is obviously a risky business: voters want things to happen immediately, so many (elected officials) stay away from projects that take a long time. My commitment is to make sure Jackson stays in development mode. You will see streets torn up as long as I'm mayor and after I'm not mayor: we are in development mode; we're making sure things happen to improve quality of life in city.

DL: What is one thing Jackson residents would be very surprised to hear about you?
HJ: (Here, Johnson paused for the only time during the interview before answering.) For the last seven or eight years, I've been building a barn by hand in north Hinds County—not Madison county. (Laughs.) That process has allowed me to use my hands and to develop skills that I didn't have previously, but it also has given me an appreciation of how things happen. Building a barn, you have to have the right tools, you have to have the skills to utilize those tools, have to have material, have to have a positive attitude. You have to really envision what it's going to look like, and you have to have an appreciation of time because I couldn't do it in all one day or one week. Sometimes when I wanted to work outside, it was muddy, raining, and I couldn't do it. I had to put all these things together to accomplish something. It's like that with the city: It takes skills, attitude, tools, a sense of timing. People would probably laugh if they saw me in my 1979 F-100 truck with my jeans and boots on to build that barn, but I've been learning a lot in that process. It also gives me a sense of accomplishment. You put a plank on; you've accomplished something. Nine planks; you've done a lot. A lot of times in the city, we can't measure things on a daily basis.

DL: I'm not sure I've asked you enough about "perception-gate," being that it's in the media again. Why do you think you and Chief Moore are so strongly criticized for insisting that fearful perceptions are harmful to the city?
HJ: The perception debate is important if you're seeking destruction. It's not important in building a community if it's not balanced with (the) type of building that's occurring. I really believe, intentionally or not, there are forces that would like to see the community fail. This community is not going to fail; it's going to survive; to persevere. It has to. … Look at its station, its status in Mississippi and the metro area. Not to get too biblical, but Proverbs 11:11 says: "By blessings of the upright a city is exalted, but it is overthrown through the mouth of the wicked." What that means is those good things happening in a city is what exalts the city and makes it what is it. Just a few wicked tongues can overthrow all of that. We need to look very carefully at where the wicked tongues are in the city.
Donna Ladd is editor-in-chief of the Jackson Free Press. The full transcript of this interview is posted at jacksonfreepress.com.

Previous Comments

ID

77542

Comment

Note: I will post the entire interview with Mayor Johnson just after Thanksgiving; it should be online by Dec. 2. Please check back; the full interview contains several very interesting parts not included in the print version.

Author

ladd

Date

2003-11-26T23:24:46-06:00

ID

77543

Comment

FYI

Author

E.D. Bluntson

Date

2003-12-01T16:00:52-06:00

ID

77544

Comment

FYI, what?

Author

ladd

Date

2003-12-02T12:19:36-06:00

ID

77545

Comment

Eric Stringfellow mounted The Clarion-Ledger's defense to this interview with the mayor in today's paper: http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0312/07/meric.html Note that in his zealousness not to mention the JFP -- ;-) -- he doesn't use a single direct quote from the mayor throughout the whole column and just paraphrases what he said ... somewhere. Journalists attribute, yes, even paraphrases. Astute readers should ask, "Where did the mayor say this stuff, Eric? Why aren't you attributing his comments so we can see them in context of what else he said?" Note that the only word in quotes in the entire column is "negativism," but he doesn't say where/when the mayor used that word. The C-L clearly don't want anyone who might not have read the interview to go seek it out -- and the reason for that is apparent. Once again, "civic journalism" isn't coming anywhere near The Clarion-Ledger. The phrase "defensive journalism" seems much more fitting. The two words I've heard more than any other around town to describe the C-L's "Changing Faces of Jackson" series is "superficial" and "incomplete." No doubt.

Author

ladd

Date

2003-12-07T15:18:05-06:00

ID

77546

Comment

Has the full version of the interview been posted yet, or am I missing it?

Author

chris

Date

2003-12-10T12:21:43-06:00

ID

77547

Comment

It hasn't, and I apologize. The reason is that I haven't managed to find an hour and a half to listen to the entire tape and fill in a few spots. That is top of my agenda this afternoon; I mention in the issue that's on the streets today that the "director's cut" (so to speak) of the mayor's interview is now online. So I must get it up here. I promise, top priority this afternoon. Please check back.

Author

ladd

Date

2003-12-10T12:46:43-06:00