Jackson Free Press

OK, I am ready to vote. But for whom? Let me go through my process of personal questions. The first question is obvious: Which one is a person of color? That one's easy to answer. Which one supports issues relating to minority communities? Who can I identify with? Which one can identify with me? Who can I relate to? Which one can relate to me? Who is going to come to my neighborhood after the voting process is over to see about me? Which one is actually targeting issues that relate to either me or my generation? Who seems more in touch with reality? Which one seems like a real person instead of some perfect image? I can continue asking myself questions, but I already know the person that I am voting for. It has never been more obvious. My answer is none of them.

Why should I bother going to the polls at all? It is like asking myself: How do I want to die—gun, knife or car wreck? It is all the same no matter which one you choose. So why should I waste my time or gas money when I do not have to? Just because I have the right, many people tell me. But that answer does not speak to today's generation.

Yes, yes, of course I understand the history of what people of color went through in order to gain the right to vote. However, I still have to ask myself why should I vote for one of these people when I do not like any of them. Voting for president, as well as other political offices, is more a process of elimination than support for a particular candidate. For instance, neither of the candidates for governor look like me or talk like me, nor do they understand what it is like being me on a daily basis.

Then, I begin to eliminate the ones that I really do not want to vote for. Well, I do not want to vote for him because he speaks negatively about the music that portrays the subject matter that reflects what I deal with on a daily basis. I do not want to vote for the other guy because he is just corny and goofy. So that leaves these last two people. Paper, rock scissors or inny minny miny mo?

Sure, some young people vote on a regular basis, and they should be commended. We need more young people to vote. But in order to accomplish that goal, we need a candidate who can and will talk about something that young people either care about or want to hear. Politicians find time to visit our neighborhoods, churches and schools when they are campaigning for votes. Yet, once they're elected, they're suddenly so busy that they cannot return even to say thank you?

There are other things about politicians young people simply do not understand. Why do they all wear suits and dark-colored ones at that? Fashion does play a large part in the image one attempts to exhibit. With young people, image is everything. Just look at the amount of love 50 Cent gets compared to JaRule. Where is their sense of style? Or, how about appealing to the average person by simply wearing blue jeans and tennis shoes every now and then?

What is so good about being called conservative, and what is so bad about being called a liberal? What is a conservative? From the luxury cars, to the fancy houses, to the bling-bling, there is very little that is conservative about the society we live in. Is a conservative someone who stays within boundaries that tend to favor the majority and who will not ruffle the feathers of those who favor traditional methods, even if they need to be ruffled? If the answer is yes, that virtually goes against everything young people believe. We're moving forward, not backyard. Young adults like to keep it real, stand out and go against the grain.

We have other questions no one is answering. Why do politicians all talk about the same issues but tend to do nothing about any of them? Why are all of the people making decisions regarding young people so out of touch with the youth that they are paid to serve? How can a middle-aged person living in the suburbs identify or relate to issues that an inner-city youth goes through on a day-to-day basis?

A new kind of politician is desperately needed. You know, one that knows and remembers what it is like being the average person who goes to work, pays bills, and attempts to enjoy life instead of these charlatans who try to appear squeaky clean and clean cut. Everyone has a skeleton in the closet; they just have not cleaned it out like Eminem (one for my hip-hop readers). If politicians are going to be viewed as potential role models, society should redefine "role model." We don't admire someone who appears to live a flawless life, and seems to say and do all the right things. That is not real, and young people know it. A role model should be a human who makes mistakes but learns and bounces back from them. I want someone who can show me how I can fall down and get back up (one for my gospel readers). Someone who will say: I made a mistake, but this is what I learned. Please forgive me.

Now, that would be someone I could identify with. And vote for.

Brian Fry, 27, works with young people in Jackson.

Previous Commentsshow

So, my question to these disaffected young people would be - how do you expect this "new breed of politician" to arise? Spontaneously? Fertilized only by angst and cynicism? This kind of an argument is simply a justification for not caring, not working. I'd love to see more people of all ages and stripes, becoming involved in politics at all levels. Unless these people learn how to get someone elected, they're never going to find a 'new type of politician' and have the wherewithal to get him/her elected. And, this assumption that all women/people of color should get my vote. Doesn't work for me. There's plenty of women who's political views I disagree with, and I'd never vote for them, even if they were running against a man. Gender/race is no guarantee of anything.

Kate

Oct 30 2003

Oh, and the analogy of "how do I want to die - by gun, knife or car wreck." It's a good one, because there are differences, even if they're not cheery ones (me, I think I'd choose gunshot to the head, but I'm not sure). Small differences do matter. Alot. All the time. In many cases, evolution is going to work better than revolution.

Kate

Oct 30 2003

The philosophy of waiting until the "right" candidiate appears to vote is precisely why we have King George II in the White House. If just a few more people had voted for "the lesser evil" or voted at all, we might very well have a president that most voters, most citizens actually CHOSE. If for no other reason tha out of homage to the people who died to give us all the right to choose, you should vote.

Nia

Oct 30 2003

Ok, so far so good. Each and every point that was made is very thoughtful and important. However, those points are made thru the eyes of adults. And often that is the case related to several things pertaining to young people. Just allow yourslef to walk in their shoes and attempt to think like them. Yes, yes if young people do not like who is elected then more of them should vote. However, you must understand that these young people who I am refreeing to in the article are products of immediate gratification meaning that they want what they want and now and if they do not get it they say forget it and move on. Continued below.

Fry

Oct 31 2003

Part of it for me, I guess, is it was in my youth that I started learning about and following politics. My interest has waxed and waned over the years, but high school and college were when I really started to get annoyed at the way things are, and look for a way to change it. I just don't buy that the youth of today have to have more encouragement to become activists than the current state of world affairs. There's a gazillion issues - they should all be out, pissed off, and working for change. 20+ years ago, it's not like there was a huge plethora of women running for office, and the ERA was defeated. And yet, politics still interested me, even though I wasn't a white guy in a suit. I don't mean to sound harsh, because I do (sort of) understand. I just want to poke 'em all into some sort of activism.

Kate

Oct 31 2003

Now, I will touch the young people subject again in a minute. Let me move on to race. For some strange reason when it comes to race most people are scared to say how they really feel or what they really think. Just look at the preview poll that was conducted recently. 80% of blacks said they would vote for Mrs. Blackmon compared to only about 8% for Amy Tuck. On the other hand 70% of whites said they were voting for Amy Tuck and 13% was voting for Mrs. Blackmon. There is no secret formula here. Most blacks are going to vote for the black candidates. Race is a factor and will always be a factor no matter how you choose to look at it. It is what it is.

Fry

Oct 31 2003

Back to the young people. By no means am I justifying the fact that people should not vote. I am simply offering the readers an inside look at how young people perceive this situation. After I talk to young people I end up surprised by how smart they are when it comes to politics. For instance they point out why should they support Bush when he has done nothing for them. To quote one of my students Bush is going to Iraq to rebuild something that he did not have to tear up in the first place. How come he will not use that money to help out the people in the United States instead? So she repeatedly stated that she is not voting for him in the upcoming election. So I asked who was she voting for? She replied no one because none of them do anything for her or anyone else her color. Also........

Fry

Oct 31 2003

But see, I don't buy into a couple of assumptions here. 1. Only people like me can help me. That's just wrong headed. I do believe there is a tendency for women to understand women's issues and minorities to understand minority issues in ways that other's can't. If that were the case, then, well, for starters, women wouldn't have the vote. There are polticians who have helped the disenfranchised classes, even if they were not members of that class. And there are women (like Amy Tuck) that I would not vote for in a gazillion years. It's too simplistic to *start* everything along racial and gender lines. Look at voting records, not body type. 2. What's in it for me? And, what have yoiu done for me lately? That mindset pretty much just leads to pork barrell politics. There are times when we need to look at the larger picture. 3. Even when its the 'lesser of 2 evils' - there's still a choice. And even small differences in policy at the outset can create huge differences down the road. Standing by and doing nothing just leaves the status quo, and allows it to deteriorate further. Yes, it's depressing, frustrating and annoying. But it's all we've got. And it's not going to change if we all just sit on the sidelines.

Kate

Oct 31 2003

I am no professional judge of debates or anything but I watched a couple of democratic presidential candidates debate just to see who I was voting for. I came away surprised after I listened to how each candidate answered the questions. The one that impressed me the most and probably would impress you if you were fair would have been Rev. Al Sharpton. His answers, the way he answered, and the fact that he seemed more like a real person instead of some political robot all impressed me a great deal. Sure it did not hurt him that he was black but that is not the only reason that I liked him. I liked him the same reason why most of my young people like things, people and etc; and that is because he seemed real. He kept it real instead of standing up there replying to the same questions in a robot fashion. So if he was so impressive, ( And I am not the only who found him to be impressive) why are people not talking about him as a legitimate candidate? Don't tell me because of his past indiscretions. We all know everyone has either made a mistake or has a skeleton in their closet, plus no one really made a huge issue of Arnold's desire to just touch women when and where he chose. So are you telling me that race does not play a part? If so, be honest and tell me do u really think there will one day be a black president? Young people do not buy into that choose that lesser evil method. Instead they say if none of them are for me then I am for none of them. Sure they should not complain if they do not vote but I can assure you they would vote for someone that they liked: like me. I am running for something next year, I am going to be the coolest person ever elected. Sure the suits may not like me but I guarantee you that my young people will..............

Fry

Oct 31 2003

I don't want to interrupt the flow between Brian and Kate here -- it's a really good exchange -- but I do want to put in a plug for the idea that adults, even who care about young people, usually do not listen to WHY young people don't vote very often; we just get frustrated and say of course they should, because of history, reality and so on. What that leaves is a difficult disconnect. If candidates (and older voters) are ever going to connect with young people, we HAVE to listen to what they're saying, while not telling them they're wrong. This particular blog seems a great first step. Carry on.

ladd

Oct 31 2003

Also, and Brian please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think that young people of color would hesitate to vote for a white candidate who actually listened to their concerns and responded to them.

ladd

Oct 31 2003

I'm just saying that I KNOW there are lots of reasons to NOT vote. I just think the first step is to get over it and just get in the habit of voting. I think that if you know that you're not going to vote, then you pay less attention, and it's a downward spiral of inattention and not voting. Whereas, if you decide that you *have* to go vote, then you pay more attention and become more involved. If nothing else, send those young people out to vote in the primaries. I voted for Jessie Jackson in a primary a long long time ago. For most of the same reasons you talk about, Brian. But, I voted in the general election too, when it wasn't at much fun.

Kate

Oct 31 2003

Kate wrote: "I just think the first step is to get over it and just get in the habit of voting." Kate, I don't think the answer is ever to tell people to just "get over it," although I certainly agree with you in principle. We've got to figure how to help young people decide that it's worth it to vote, that they have options, that their vote matters. There's hard work to be done. But we must do it.

ladd

Oct 31 2003

Kate, I like the points that you made. But I can tell that you are very intelligent and mature. Young people are intelligent but not as mature. Sure we all should look at the big picture but we do not. And young people are no different. If it benefits them they are down for it or if you do something for them they are down with you, but if you do nothing for them and it does not benefit them they can care less. For instance, I tried to tell some of my young people about volunteering and they replied to me "TIM" which means time is money. They are not trying to do anything for free and they are not trying to do anything that does not benefit them no matter how it may affect a larger picture. Like I said before, until people attempt to think like them and realize that these kids are of a new generation and stop trying to treat them like kids were treated in the past. These kids can tell you more about sex, drugs, and etc than the average adult knows. These quote unquote professionals that are on tv and radio say this and that, but they only come in contact with the cream of the crop. I deal with them all, the good and the bad and I am telling you that this is a new breed. Here's a quick update. I was a lifeguard at a pool once and I heard two 6 year old boys talking about sex and you would have thoght that they were 25. Yet, these professionals say they do not really know about sex until they are 11 or 12. In essence what I am saying is we have to get real and understand where these young people are coming from. No matter how much we talk about how it use to be and how it should be the fact is it is not like that anymore and it is time we devise a new plan.

Fry

Oct 31 2003

(AND PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM ONLY REFERRING TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE INNER CITY) DONNA, young people would vote for anyone that cared about them as well as issues pertaining to them regardless of the color of their skin. However the general procedure is to vote for those who are talking about issues that seem as if they would benefit them. If that does not apply then vote for the black person and if that does not apply vote for the democrat and lastly if that does not apply save your time and gas money and do not vote for anybody. But yes, they would vote for anyone that seemed to really care about them. Instead of someone whom speaks about what they will do, they want to see someone who talks the talk and walks the walk.

Fry

Oct 31 2003

Brian, I agree with you, as you know. I talk to young people (in the "inner-city," as you call it; I prefer to just say "in the city") all the time who are responsive, interested and dynamic. But I get the feeling they don't get asked their opinion very often. People talk at them, not *to* them. And preaching to them about why they should vote, of course, without understanding why they don't, I fear, is just talking at them. Even if we're well-meaning when we do it.

ladd

Oct 31 2003

Donna, your point definitely hits home. People are always telling young people to vote and its their right and they should use their right to vote. Not once do they say you should vote for ______ because he supports young people and the things young people believe in. Politicians always talk about establishing programs for youths but the programs are all just like the same old boring and dull programs that already exist. Just take a look at these few people that are extremely popular with young people. Eminem, Tupac, and 50 cent. These people are not popular because the color of their skin. They are popular because they are real and they keep it real. They do not attempt to make some fairy tale image of everything, instead they tell lit ike it is without sugarcoating anything. And that is what young people want; people that keep it real....

Fry

Oct 31 2003

Well, I guess I'm a hopeless white old fogey, because for me, 'keeping it real' means poke everyone until they go vote. And I mean that in the nicest, most compassionate way I can express it. It seems to me like the issues are as much about giving these people a voice as it about anything else. Voting should be one of many many many ways people are expressing their opinions.

Kate

Oct 31 2003

Fry, You definitely hit on something. Talk about issues that are relevant to their lives, you pollies!!!! Talk about the need for the powers that be and the youthful masses to work together on specific issues: *Create a strong JOB TRAINING network (which MS has moved in the right direction, definitely. But the plans will still need at minimum 15-20 years of consistent implementation. The NC Triangle area didn't shine until the 80s, and their econ dev't plan was in place since the late 50s. Similar story for Tupelo ) *Teach youth HOW to EXAMINE THEMSELVES THROUGHLY about where their aptitudes and strengths lie, using concrete case study examples [1]. * Attractive Schools (not in the physical sense). MS has to face it's unflattering numbers, no doubt about it. HOWEVER, I'd say (paraphrasing a movie line) "If we can't beat the numbers in the short run, we'll just have to get around them". How, you ask? Here's an idea: a STRICT anti-bullying policy, properly enforced! Think about it. Look at two schools: One with an average ACT score of 24, the other with a score of 19. At first, it looks like a no-brainer - choose the first school. BUT.... WHAT IF... the one with 19 has a very strong anti-bullying policy while the one with the 24 score does not? Where would YOU rather see children sent to school? To top it off, suppose the school's culture at every level (student to school board to st. gov't) believed that harassing students on account of their being "nerds", "geeks", or "wimps" is no better than harassing students because they are of a different race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. ? Where would you rather see your kids go to school, all things considered? See what I'm talking about "getting around MS's unflattering numbers"? There's much more I can say, but I think this is a VERY REAL and CONCRETE way to reach youth (and their parents' too). The sooner we see this kind of platform, the more our youth and their parents will be energized, and the better off all of us will all be. [1] Ok, so this IS more of a career counseling issue than a political one, sure. Still, what young people do will impact heavily on MS's human capital situation, which IS a direct political issue. Besides, i think young people would eat up stuff like this, and youth especially certainly need guidance

Philip

Oct 31 2003

As I ponder what's written here, it occurs to me that it's quite possible I don't fully appreciate the depth to which we've failed this group of people. If the attitude of this group is truly only "TIM", and that with a short sighted view of time, then we as a society have failed miserably. Donna, I will argue that at times, telling people to 'get over it' is *exactly* what they need to here. I know it's true for me in my life. And it definitely works with my kids. There are times you've got to just stop making excuses, get over it and do what needs to be done. It's irritating, but hey, that's what moms are for. And another thing - this line of reasoning is not limited to urban kids. For example, I work with an overeducated white guy who simply does not vote. For pretty much the same reasons outlined by Brian. This attitude cuts across all sectors of the population. Some more so than others, probably.

Kate

Oct 31 2003

Kate, I see your point -- I can be impatient with the best of 'em -- but the Dr. Laura approach (sorry) just isn't always the best one. Often, just saying "do it" won't cut it; we need patience and understanding about why things are the way they are. For instance, Jimmy and I have been encouraging young people from Jackson State to come intern with us because that's the way a lot of us got our start in this industry. But we'll often run into what Brian mentioned: young people who don't believe they should have to intern, or do work for free, or be apprenticed. They want to hit the ground running, be paid big money right away, but they just often don't have the skills or the experience. So they end up without decent jobs. But it takes patience to explain that it IS important to take these steps, to get the clips and samples they need in order to then get the good jobs, to pay their dues, so to speak. Jimmy is a master of getting this message through to his students, I think. And you have to show that it works, and share your experiences. It's vital to stay on target, though, and not give up on young people simply because they don't know what we know. If we do, they end up with some crappy job where they're not getting any decent samples but a small salary; meantime, the friend they graduated with starts with an internship and then gradually works his way into a really incredible gig with hard work and mentoring because he has an amazing portfolio and knows what it takes to do big-league work. Now, young people aren't supposed to just know all this, and many certainly come from circumstances where someone has just said, "go make money no matter what," often because they don't know themselves. They don't even realize it's short-sighted. They need people talking to them with patience and understanding. And redundancy is a good thing. I suppose I present this as a metaphor for the voting puzzle. Just telling young people they should vote is not enough. *We* have to work harder. I hope that all makes sense; we just had a lovely dinner at Bravo with Todd's dad, and I'm about to fall over with satiated fatigue. So I'll stop now. Happy Halloween, all. And thank you so much to Brian for being here to talk to us about this. I'd say Brian has much to teach us all. Night, night, all.

ladd

Nov 1 2003

One more thing: I'd suggest that it would be useful for us to really consider what Brian means by "make it real." This isn't just a throw-away slang phrase, as I've recently begun to understand. It's not far away from the other phrase that is often thrown around in the non-hip-hop world these days: authenticity. It is very interesting that in the marketing-soaked haze that is youth these days, that one of the biggest priorities is to "keep it real." I'd hazard to guess that a big part of the puzzle of this larger topic we're on involves truly understanding that simple phrase, as Brian alludes to in the above piece. And like the young people we're talking about, I suspect we're not going to "get it" over the course of five minutes. Kate wrote above: "It's quite possible I don't fully appreciate the depth to which we've failed this group of people." That could qualify as a breakthrough moment; we adults, especially white middle-class and better ones, have a lot of non-defensive pondering of this question to do, I'd suggest. And if you'll allow me to be a tad dramatic, I'd suggest that if we could figure out that "depth," as Kate puts it, that we could likely figure out a way to reverse it. Of course, the only way to do that is by talking to young people themselves about what they're thinkingóso we're back to square one. I'm always amazed at how often adults have all the answers for young people without asking them what they think/need. But I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll stop now. G'night this time for real.

ladd

Nov 1 2003

I love all the responses. If we were on tv arguing these points the ratings would be thru the rough. I once heard it takes a whole village to raise a child and that is what we need to do now. Exchanging ideas, even if they differ, is wonderful because it allows others' to briefly examine what goes on in the mind of others'.

Fry

Nov 1 2003

Kate as usual both your point and opinion is very insightful. However, as adults we tend to drift away from being able to relate and identify with young people. Sure, adults see the big picture but all young people see is the here and now. TIM ( time is money) is very popular with my young people. They are not interested in volunteering. They come to me at times telling me about how bad they need a job and the next sentence out of their mouth is where they do not and will not work. It is extremely hard for me to convince them that working at Wendy's or any start up job will benefit them in the long run. Sure, I point out that they are gaining experience, and developing skills and all that other good stuff. Yet, these kids know basic math which is 8 hours @ 5.15 an hour comes up to be around $40.00 a day. 10 minutes on the corner selling marijuana comes out to be $80-100 a day. And note that most of these kids selling drugs do not do it because they want to, they do it because they have to. I know what you are saying tell them to get a job like the rest of us and I say the same thing but it is not my lights or power that is about to be cut off because I did not have the money to pay my bills it is theirs. They put in application after application and no one called them for interview. Mom got laid off her job and dad is not in the picture so what do they do allow their water to get cut off, allow their lights to get cut off or go on the corner and make that money to pay the bills? Then, the kids point out that Bush is sending millions to Iraq to help them out when right here his mother is unemployed and their family needs immediate financial assistance. So they ask me Mr. Fry why should I vote for Bush or anyone else when they do not care about us? Then he says Mr. Fry they will help out another country and not help us yet when I go out there and try to help my family by making some quick money to keep the lights on they arrest me and send me to jail for 10-20 years. The what have you done for me lately song may not be song thru your mouth but it is a very popular song sung by many. Just think for a minute, if the government came in and flooded those less fortunate with an opportunity to gain financial security and then those people improved their situation. Those people would be running to the polls to vote for the people that aided them, but since no one is aiding them what are they running to the polls for?

Fry

Nov 1 2003

All, I was lying in bed this a.m. thinking about this forum, and what we can do to communicate with young people. (By the way, any "young people" out there are more than welcome to jump right on in here and set us straight!) Anyhow, I remembered a thank-you note one of the Northwest Rankin 11th-graders wrote me after I talked to their class last week. She said: "I really enjoyed when someone asked a question you had a quick and thorough answer. That makes a difference when you have a straight answer and don't have to studder and ponder on the question." Now, understand, I approached that class like I would with any other group of people. One young man asked me about Jackon, supposedly, being in the top 10 "most dangerous" cities. I told him about city politics and the details behind the Morgan-Quitno ratings. I was very specific. Another young person asked me to explain what Freedom Summer was, so we talked about that for 20 minutes or so, and I was very specific with them about people and events and such. One young man even said to me that I don't look 42, why is that (OK, that was my favorite question), and I told him that I believe it's because I don't go through life living in fear; that I try to live every day to the fullest, enjoying people, places and life; helping people rather than watching TV. I also talked to them about being a club deejay after I left the South, and thereby learning in a very direct way how much racism there is above the Mason-Dixon. Now, the point here is not to say "look how great my answers were," or even that they were "right." My point is, those young people seemed on the edge of their seats because I talked DIRECTLY to them. I gave them statistics and details. I was straight about what my own opinion was, and told them they should form their own. They didn't have to agree with me. Their sheath of letters really showed that they paid attention to the kinds of things we talked about, in detail, and they were thinking about them. Now, I've had similar experiences in other schools in the area, from St. Andrew's to Lanier. I truly, truly believe that one of adults' biggest problems with dealing with young people is our own impatience and our assumption that they don't care and/or won't "get it."

ladd

Nov 1 2003

MORE ... They "get it" alright, and very often better than we do. They have much less patience for the B.S. of politicians than older folks often do. Frankly, studies have shown that they don't read newspapers because editors and writers do many of the same things I'm talking about here, but in print. But, guess what? I'm told by JSU professors that they are reading the Free Press; that they have to make them put them away in class. And many profs out there, and at other schools, want the paper because it interest young people, and therefore they're reading. Why? I'm just guessing here, but I suspect it's because we have a tendency to talk straight -- and we bend over backward never to talk down to young people. And, again, I think there's a larger lesson in that for folks trying to figure out how to get young people to the polls.

ladd

Nov 1 2003

Donna wrote: "Jimmy and I have been encouraging young people from Jackson State to come intern with us because that's the way a lot of us got our start in this industry. But we'll often run into what Brian mentioned: young people who don't believe they should have to intern, or do work for free, or be apprenticed. They want to hit the ground running, be paid big money right away, but they just often don't have the skills or the experience." This is why Kate is right. We've failed the generation Brian is talking about miserably. They've been handed everything without having to earn it. And on top of that we'vemiseducated most of them and fed them a culture that lacks substance. So of course they want what they want and they wan tit now. We have to do better, more. More listening, more education, more mentoring. Part of the disconnect is that they haveunrealistic expectations.

Nia

Nov 1 2003

And I'm not so sure they wouldn't respond to Kate's approach. The examples Brian gave earlier of people they look up to; the one thing they have in common, if you listen to their music/art, is their frank discussion of their struggles to make it. On their CDs, they each give detailed accounts of what it takes to be successful. 8 Mile in particular is a great example of what I mean. These kids can "get it" and they can "get over it," too. But they need mentors, adults in their lives who have more than a passing interest in them.

Nia

Nov 1 2003

I think you're right in many ways, Nia, but not entirely. I wouldn't say all the young people I'm talking about have been handed everything, although I certainly think the culture in general these days often lacks substance for all ages. I think, in many cases at least (Brian?), that a lot of young people here grew up with very little. Their parents and grandparents had very little as well, and they've watched people at a short distance have a lot. I think a big part of it, thus, is that young people want their turn at what's on the other side of the gap. They want to make money, buy nice things, help their families and so on. They don't feel like they have time to "waste" working for free, or interning, or apprenticing. This concept, of course, is not limited to young people in the city. I also grew up in a poor white culture where it would have been hard to understand why in the world you would go volunteer to help someone do things, even if those "mentors" (used anachronistically) could change your life. I was lucky that my mother understood that I needed other, more-educated adults in my life, and pushed me to go seek out mentors. This literally changed my future, and gave me a path out of the trailer park. But when I did go work with my mentors, many other folks would give me a hard time for hanging out with "old maids" (my 25-year-old unmarried mentor) or weirdos (my wonderful journalism teacher who wore all-black every day), or so on. Some people could understand volunteering or giving money at church, but very little beyond that. People were very short-sighted. Young people need adults they can identify with and be comfortable with (not fear) who can tell and show them that if they volunteer to help people that they will probably be happier (to put it very simplistically, but honestly). They need adults showing them that exciting, dynamic lives aren't lived inside one's own head, always worrying about what people think of you (most don't for long). We can't just complain about a "failed" generation -- I don't think for one minute that it's failed, although I do agree that in many ways, adults have "failed" them. I truly believe that young people will live up to (or down to) the beliefs and expectations that we project onto them.

ladd

Nov 1 2003

MORE ... Again, of course, that means the onus is on us. Thus, the truth in your last statement: "We have to do better, more. More listening, more education, more mentoring. Part of the disconnect is that they haveunrealistic expectations."

ladd

Nov 1 2003

By the way, I don't think Kate's approach is wrong, nor do I think Brian does. I think what we're both arguing is to not assume that just because we tell them it's the right thing to do, that they will believe it. We have to understand WHY they don't want to vote (or volunteer, or whatever), and then use that information to help us deliver our message better. I suspect a multi-faceted approach is best anyhow. And, clearly, different people require different approaches.

ladd

Nov 1 2003

I don't think they're a failed generation either, though I agree that we've failed them. I don't work with young people as you and Brian do, so I'm guessing here. When I said Kate was "right" earlier, I meant about her belief that we've failed them. From the little experience I have with young people, I don't think any of them do stuff because adults say it's the right thing to do. Has that ever happened? :-)

Nia

Nov 1 2003

A couple of things I want to point out here: 1. I hope I'm not coming across as a total bitch, because that's not my intent. This whole topic just frustrates me to no end. 2. I think we need both approaches - understanding their issues and just poking them with a stick until they vote. I believe that behavior influences thought as much as thought influences behavior. As I said before, since I know I'm going to vote, I pay more attention. The people I know who are not going to vote just don't pay any attention at all. The behavior helps set the tone - for better or for worse. 3. The 'make money now' mind set is/was rampant in Silicon Valley. And it's interesting that my co-workers who don't vote (mostly over educated white males) are, like Brian's young people, the one most interested in getting rich quick. Cashing out on an over-inflated stock IPO, instead of selling drugs. But it's pretty much the same mind set. They feel they should all be CEOs in their next job, and they are unbearable. 4. As the Dalai Lama would say, we all seek happiness. The trick, however, is identifying what happiness really is. While I understand the drive many of us have to make money, there's clearly more to life and more to happiness than making money. Somehow, we've got to communicate that to this group of people, whether they are disenfranchised city kids or annoying Silicon Valley 28 year olds who think they deserve to be rich. 5. On a positive note, a friend of mine's 5 year old was horrified and astonished to find out that in some countries, people don't get to pick who their boss is. And even more horrified to find that some people in the US (like his uncle) don't exercise their right to vote. He's jewish-chinese, so maybe his generation of minority youth will be more politically active.

Kate

Nov 1 2003

One more thing. I think, as Brian and Donna have touched on, it's about expressing truth, being 'real' or 'authentic' or however you want to say it. There is a lack of substance in most of our media, most of our politicians and most of our entertainment. Kids know when we're lying to them, and most of our culture and politics is built on lies, and I'm not surprised that they've picked up on that. I don't like reading most newspapers, or watching television news any more than these 'kids' do. Which is why I'm such a rabid fan of JFP and these boards. I guess I should remember that I'm lucky enough to *know* that alternate news sources and lifestyles exist, and have the resources to go and seek them out.

Kate

Nov 1 2003

Amen to the alternative thing; that's where the mentoring comes in. Kids need to know that some of us see things the way they do and most importantly that we are committed to making a difference. Kate, you're not coming across as a b****. I don't think so anyway. Now I'm off for coffee and a museum. Nice afternoon to ya'.

Nia

Nov 1 2003

All, please don't take anything I'm saying as critical of your points. I think this dialogue is very important -- to twist and turn this issue inside-out, instead of just throw up our hands as so many people tend to do. Kate, you're right about vapid media, but it's kind of intriguing that younger people seem more willing to recognize it, and reject it, than adults. There's a trend right now, especially with the Gannett Corp., to start free "alternatives" to compete with papers like ours around the country (they can't stand losing even 1 percent of their preciously high profit margins; watch for one in Jackson, by the way; you heard about it here first). The corporate "alts" are terrible, of course; they all have a complete don't-get-it-itis about why young people aren't reading their papers, and they manage to talk down to them all over again. I'm not going to do our Gannett spies a big favor here by listing the points in detail (not that I think it would matter) -- but we can sum it up by saying that they don't get the "real" thing at all. Meantime, here's a site of stories by young people that I really enjoy, and that I've picked up some stories from for our paper. I suggest it to young people all the time for compelling reading that talks TO them. Pass it on. http://www.wiretapmag.com/

ladd

Nov 1 2003

Nia and Kate Once again I support several of the things you spoke of. But please let me touch on the mentor thing. I love mentors but I have a problem with how they mentor. Taking a kid to the mall and buying them things is good but these kids that they are taking cannot afford to buy anything there. So, I always ask them and suggest to them instead of taking them to the mall, how about taking them to the dollar store and show them how to really extend that 5 dollar bill so they can buy things that can last them a while and I also like taking them out of town and showing them another side of life however it is somewhat useless. For instance, that is just like taking an animal out of the jungle and placing it in a zoo for a day. Regardless of the wonderful time the animal had at the zoo it still has to go back to the jungle and survive. Thus, let's teach them to survive in their own neighborhood first. I ask kids how do they deal with conflicts, the number one answer is fighting. Mentors should teach them skills that are useful to them on a daily basis versus just showing them a good time on the weekend. Show them a good time but teach them skills that will allow them to make up to the next weekend safely.

Fry

Nov 1 2003

Brian, I have to say that it never crossed my mind that a "mentor" would simply take a kid to the mall. What is that: mentoring in shopping? Is that really common!? When I say mentoring, I mean having a younger person (or older, as I've also done many times) actually shadow you and your work, and assist you, so they get see what you do every day. The most valuable thing for me back in high school (and beyond) was to see how accomplished, educated grown-ups dealt with problems in their own lives, and accomplished things, and managed time (OK, so I didn't learn enough there ). And so on. I can't think of a time a mentor ever took me shopping. Your points are certainly well taken about what kids need. Keep it coming.

ladd

Nov 1 2003

Yes, you would be surprised by what some people term as mentoring. Then, it is hard to complain about someone who is attempting to do something out of the kindness of their hearts. Honestly speaking "THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS ALL MESSED UP". The people making the decisions are only qualified by what letters are before or after their name. Just because you have some type of degree does not automatically deem you qualified. For example, I witnessed a person who had a master's degree and a specialty in this and specialty in that come to work with young people. After 2 days they quit because they realized that the job required more than what was taught in school. School taught them about this disorder and that disorder but it did not teach them how to communicate, relate, and identify, with this young generation. And the same example goes higher up than that. The people making the decisions have NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO clue about how and what to do with these kids. They manipulate the statistics in an attempt to make things look better than they actually are. But when it comes down to it these kids are no better off than when they first started in some of these brady bunch programs. The cosby show and brady bunch was positive and popular but it is not reflective of real life. Real life involves both good and bad. However, these programs only want to highlight the good. Instead they should teach these young people how to bouce back from a bad choice or how to turn a bad situation into a successful outcome. The poke them with a stick method sounds easy but it is not effective. The last thing these kids want to hear is somewhere nagging at them with the same old lecture. Go vote, it is your right. Voting is a form of expression but voting should be more. People say vote for the lesser evil, but how about if people did not vote for either in an effort to show them we are tired of these preschool politicians what we want is a real person who holds office. continued below....

Fry

Nov 1 2003

I realize that not voting for either candidate is highly unlikely but it would be effective. After they see the low voting turnout they will then begin to question why and then the answers would come to the forefront, "all of the candidates suck". For example, when you do not like a tv show people stop watching it and it goes off the air, when you do not like a certain restaurant it closes, and when you do not like a certain car they stop making them. So what if we stop liking these politicians and stop voting? Then maybe we can get a new, better, fresher, politician to step forward like me........LOL, but I am serious. I am running for something next year and I will win too..

Fry

Nov 1 2003

My take, We can talk of getting young people involved all we want, but we have to have a few focus points - preferably issues directly relevant to young people (some of which I listed above - esp school quality and safety). If you throw too many issues out at them, they will (as does everyone else) lose focus and therefore not get anything done. I hate to bulldoze agendas into others' faces, but it would seem to me that a strong school system developed via a strong anti-bullying program, properly implemented and enforced, will work wonders for a community. This CERTAINLY is something directly relevant to young people. Of course this is only one aspect of reducing society's problems, but it is one people in school have to deal with everyday (and some adults in the workplace every day, for that matter). As Todd said in his future of Jackson piece, if you don't have the right people climate, you will be at a serious disadvantage compared to other communities. A happy student body (without spoiling them, of course) lets them devote their energies to other pressing problems, thereby channeling more energy to those problems. All this will certainly contribute to raising our overall quality of life in almost every aspect imaginable

Philip

Nov 1 2003

As for Fry's comments about all these programs failing because they can't relate to what young people are going through, that IS on the money! Yes, listening to what kids have to say and resisting the urge to "remake the school in your image" is a start. But as Fry says, its about communication and relational ability. You can take all the communication classes that exist, but in the end it comes down to the ability to connect. THAT is what they CANNOT teach you in school! Relational ability is one of those things that either you've got it or you don't.

Philip

Nov 1 2003

Phillip, you are my main man...thanks for the support!!

Fry

Nov 1 2003

I'm a bit shocked by the alternative definition of mentoring given here. I'm a mentor to women of color at Columbia and the program that I participate in, granted it's college, focuses on career advice. We give them pointers, help them flesh out how they feel about a chosen career, introduce them to people in the field, and help them find jobs. It's one-on-one and is intended to help women of color get the kind of one-up that keeps them interested in their passion instead of just taking a job. It's intended to give them the kind of assistance that many, but not all, white women, especially in the Ivies, get as a matter of course. Sounds to me like the problem with mentoring that Fry mentioned is the leadership and mission of the mentoring organization. I would never take my mentee shopping--even if she were a high-school or grade-school kid. And re the "poke 'em with a stick method" (that's kinda' funny!), a good mentor who has earned the respect of her/his mentee usually finds that mentees will follow the examples and habits of someone who demonstrates an interest in their well-being. In those cases, they will often "do it just because you say it's a good thing to do." I'm not disagreeing with Fry. I'm just pointing out that mentoring can work--with good leadership and with mentors committed to a mission that has the mentees well-being at its heart.

Nia

Nov 2 2003

Then again, maybe I would take my mentee shopping if she needed more appropriate clothes for an interview or something. Or as a treat for aceing an interview! :-)

Nia

Nov 2 2003

Pass it on: Poet looking for reasons people don't vote for big traveling project .... I just got this e-mail: Peace Poetry Family, As some of you know, I am involved in a hugely exciting project, called Declare Yourself, aimed at getting people to vote in record numbers. Starting in January, I will be touring the country with Steve Connell, Gina Loring, and Marty McConnell along with an original copy of the Declaration of Independence, purchased by TV/Film Producer Norman Lear. We are currently intensively writing and rehearsing trying to create the show that will excite people to vote and become active in society. What we need now is your help. We are seeking reasons why people don't vote: all of them, any of them, your reasons, your friend's reasons, good reasons, bad reasons, real reasons, REASONS!!! You can help in two ways: 1. a.) email me your reasons for NOT voting, if you don't or haven't in the past, OR... b.) email me your reasons why you DO vote (or why you think people should) (please indicate clearly which one you are responding to: such as "I DON'T VOTE BECAUSE..." or "I DO VOTE BECAUSE...") You may include both,separately, in your response. 2. forward this to all the people on your lists and ask them to send me their reasons for not voting or for voting. PLEASE SEND RESPONSES IMMEDIATELY! Don't close this email and plan to send it later, respond today, even if you can just send a short response, because the show is being written now. This will be a tremendous help in making sure that oour voices actually reflect yours and reach the people we need to. I'll keep you posted on results and the tour info as it develops. Thanks. Blessings, Sekou (tha misfit) [email]BF8TH@aol.com[/email]

ladd

Nov 2 2003

Bo, I think you are doing a good job in trying to get people, young and mature and old, to listen. Ther is so much truth to what you say about young people being realistic; however, it seems that life does require us to give up a degree of our realism to be accepted in the playing field. The main thing, to me, is to get people of all ages to think, not think about race, party, social standing, and to think about the issues. However, som many people say one thing and do not actually do anything about what they say. It's a vicious circle. Read the poem "Old Age Sticks." It fits. I am proud of you and your effort. Too many young people and old people think a vote doesn't matter; we need to show that votes do matter. I'm being a little cynical now... does a vote matter?

Chaleygirl

Nov 3 2003

CHALEYGIRL, Well, By you calling me my BO that definitely informed me that you really know me. But, thanks so much for the kind words. My goal is to make people think, talk, debate, and adjust. Often, people are afraid of change. One cannot continue using the same methods and hope for a different result. Thanks again.

Fry

Nov 3 2003

NIA, By no means am I implying that all mentors do the same thing. There are some mentors who actually understand, while there are others' who really just do not fully understand. My example, as shocking as it seems, is very factual. However, kids often tell me that their mentors maps out a plan of about what they feel is best and not even asking the individual that they are mentoring what their goals or dreams are. It is very important to ask kids more versus just telling them.

Fry

Nov 3 2003

Brian wrote: "It is very important to ask kids more versus just telling them." That strikes me as the most important thing said so far. I know from experience how hard this advice is to follow, even as I believe in completely. This should be a challenge to us all. Thanks again, Brian, er, Bo. ;-D

ladd

Nov 3 2003

True, Fry. Listening is the difference between including someone in the decision-making processs and issuing orders/mandates.

Nia

Nov 3 2003

Ladd, Yeah Donna my nickname is Bo. It sounds cooler than Brian LOL

Fry

Nov 3 2003

Brian and all, NPR's doing a series this week on the election process, "Whose Democracy Is It? A Public Radio Collaboration Examining Democracy in America." Tonight's installation (which I just heard) was on the topic of low voter turnout. The stories can be heard at http://www.npr.org/news/specials/democracy/index.html enjoy1

Kate

Nov 5 2003

Kate, thanks for the update and your responses. I just hope that more of the readers' are as insightful as yourself.

Fry

Nov 12 2003

A good news story from the C-L. If we can just repeat this in every school in the state!!!! http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0311/16/m10.html

Philip

Nov 16 2003

Wouldn't that be something, Phillip? Dr. Glisson deserves major props for supporting these kinds of projects and making them work.

C.W.

Nov 16 2003

Brian, did you see the Ellen Goodman column on voting and 'young people?' "Rocking The Generation Gap" http://search.boston.com/dailyglobe2/320/oped/Rocking_the_generation_gap+.shtml She writes: "In politics however, the search for what's real, the yearning for authenticity, has produced some pretty strange bedfellows. Pollster Anna Greenberg goes down the list of politicians with youth appeal from Jesse Ventura to Ross Perot, John McCain, Ralph Nader. Not to mention Arnold Schwarzenegger. ''There's no consistent ideology,'' she says. ''It's not even about ideology. It's about who they are as people.'' In this campaign, Generation Dean sees the man from Vermont as real. But then, I'm told, they also see Al Sharpton as real. That's the same Al Sharpton who exploited Tawana Brawley's rape hoax back in 1988 when today's 25-year-old was 10. (As George Burns once said: ''The most important thing in acting is honesty. If you can fake that, you've got it made.'') In any case, the people born under Reagan and raised under Clinton now form a cellphone-as-sole-phone, instant-messaging generation that you call on for tech support, but not necessarily political wisdom. The great hypocrisy-spotters who want authenticity in their politicians remain uncommitted in their politics. Maybe even faithless. Many don't have faith that government affects them or that they can affect the government. This year the average voter in the Iowa caucus is expected to be 65. In 2000, only 32 percent of Americans between 18 and 25 voted. But even at that low rate they'll make up 7 percent to 8 percent of the 2004 vote. Sooner or later they're going to outnumber the baby boomers. Sooner or later, politicians are going to have to address the issues beyond the images. When Gen Y thinks about health care it isn't Medicare and prescription drugs or the high cost of insurance, it's getting any insurance. When they think about the economy, it isn't 401(k)s and tax cuts, it's getting jobs and paying student loans. Y-watchers will tell you that young Americans are disdainful of politics but engaged in their communities. They are progressive and conservative. They believe in gay rights, protecting the environment, and personal responsibility. And while we're at it, they're individualists who hate being lumped and labeled as Generation Y."

Kate

Nov 19 2003

Very interesting and some good points. Goodman writes: "In this campaign, Generation Dean sees the man from Vermont as real. But then, I'm told, they also see Al Sharpton as real. That's the same Al Sharpton who exploited Tawana Brawley's rape hoax back in 1988 when today's 25-year-old was 10. (As George Burns once said: 'The most important thing in acting is honesty. If you can fake that, you've got it made.')" I wonder if Goodman gets the "real" thing, though. A major component -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Brian -- is being willing to be a human being with flaws. Admitting them. Making mistakes. Changing your mind. The politicians that Goodman mentions, from Sharpton to Dean, fall into this "real" category, I think. Sharpton, for instances, comes across as very "real," especially in person. I wouldn't vote for him, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand his appeal. Frankly, younger generations (and many in older ones, I believe) are sick of these candidates pretending that they're so perfect and porcelain. They know they're lying to them. And this is the "real" challenge. We need candidates who are willing to talk straight, admit weaknesses, make apologies and move on. They need to talk about issues that matter to young people like health insurance and jobs and the environment and smart criminal justice (that doesn't demonize them) and rebuilding their communities. And we need those candidates now.

ladd

Nov 19 2003

Brian, I just found this column by Farai Chideya that is definitely on point with this dialogue about young voters: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17345 "Democrats have to reclaim the language of opportunity, enhanced by a solid grasp of social justice. The concept that a rising tide lifts all boats needs to be updated for the more acquisitive hip hop generation, who want immediate rewards for the fruits of their labor. The Democratic Party must be the party of strivers who are opportunistic but not parasitic, people who believe their own personal gain will not be enhanced by the misery of others. Right now some voters feel they have to choose between personal opportunity and social justice. A spot-on narrative will demonstrate that social justice ñ including no more no-bid contracts for fat cats, more educational opportunity, halting the growth of the prison-industrial complex and better jobs creation ñ benefits those seeking economic gain. Call it 'Leave No Flygirl Behind.' "Targeting the hip-hop generation ñ people like Keisha ñ with these messages is critical. The average age of white Americans is 41. The average age of black Americans is 31. Younger Americans are less likely to vote than older Americans. Black voters are 90-plus percent Democratic Party faithful. The Party has taken the black vote for granted, but as time passes, unless messaging is on point, the flow of black support will dwindle. The hip-hop generation is, of course, multiracial. Across ethnic lines, they are disgruntled with the lack of political storytelling that appeals to them." "It's not too late to find the language of inspiration. And it certainly isn't too early to start."

ladd

Dec 11 2003