Jackson Free Press

Ole Miss introduced its 35th head football coach, Ed Orgeron, on Thursday morning. The Louisiana native comes to Ole Miss from Southern California, where he spent the last seven seasons as defensive line coach, recruiting coordinator and assistant head coach.

Previous Comments

ID

86356

Comment

This came in e-mail a little bit ago from Richard Barrett: OPEN-LETTER TO ED ORGERON Ole Miss is a white school. "Historically" white, as some prefer, but no less "historical" in its makeup and outlook than Jackson State is "historically Negro." If you accept the Head Football Coach position, certain things are expected of you. Mississippians have lately voted -- 466,000 of them -- for the Confederate flag, impressively turning down the demands of the Black Caucus to abolish the banner. The same flag and same spirit flag are a cherished tradition at Ole Miss, as well, especially because the longing and fight to reverse the invasion of 1962, which forced integration upon the state, is enduring and strong. The coach must be part of efforts to de-integrate the team and rebuff the Black Caucus, in the tradition of Johnny Vaught and Paul "Bear" Bryant, in their "glory days." Lately, there have been attempts to undercut segregationist traditions. Robert Khayat tried to abolish Colonel Reb, the venerable Confederate Gentlemen, many of whose minions are buried on the campus, which sent the University Greys, which suffered the most casualties and displayed the most bravery, during the Civil War. Khayat failed, especially when students rose up -- voting by 94% -- to slap the Black Caucus in the face, which had demanded that Colonel Reb go. The unfinished task is to get Colonel Reb back on the field. Coach David Cutcliffe had installed a Negro quarterback and recruited Negro players, who bombed, just as he did. Had Jackson State installed white players, it would have been no less ludicrous or laughable. The next coach must realize that previous coaches, Steve Sloan and Tommy Tuberville, were given walking papers when they began to side with the Black Caucus, against the students and entire state, in seeking to get rid of the Rebel Flag. The flag symbolizes a magical sense that "The South Shall Rise Again." It embodies Mississippi "sticking it to" those who oppose the Mississippi, Southern and, some would say, real American way of life. That is why the segregated National Championship team of 1960 was motivated to excel. It scored not only for the school, but for the entire state, perhaps, even, re-fighting Gettysburg, all over again, and, this time, coming out ahead, only on the football-field, instead of the battle-field. The "Fighting Tigers" of Louisiana are named for one of the standout battalions under Robert E. Lee, as well. (more)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-16T12:47:07-06:00

ID

86357

Comment

Since you are from Louisiana, you know that Louisiana State University reached its peak when Governor Huey P. Long melded patriotic and school pride together, which Coach Lawrence M. "Biff" Jones translated into Tiger championships. Governor Ross Barnett did the same thing, in Mississippi, when he declared, at that Ole Miss game, "I love Mississippi," giving Coach Vaught such momentum. That special love, which you must acquire, is what makes the "Ole Miss Rebels" more than just scorers of points but champions for the Magnolia-State way-of-life. That includes love of home and family, not recruits who are illegitimate or produce illegitimate offspring. It signifies unbounded pride and honor, not players jailed for rape, drugs and assault. And, it does not include recruits who belong at Grambling or Jackson State. Coach Bryant, who had once said that he would never accept a Negro onto his "Crimson Tide" and captured six national-championships, received the largest ever funeral in Alabama. Billy Harthcock, a former Rebel-player, has postulated that the his team has been totally wrecked by integration and that there will be demands to abolish "Rebels", due to its Confederate and segregationist roots, and, even, "Ole Miss", because it is the slaves' nickname for the master's wife. Will you turn down those demands? If so, then you must put "Rebel" back into the "Ole Miss Rebels". If you are not up for the challenge, walk away, rather than embarrass yourself, the school, the students, the alumni and the state. If you are up for it, Southern Hospitality will envelope you, Rebel Spirit will engulf you and success will crown you. ó Richard Barrett (You think Richard Barrett is God's way of telling the remaining bigots how ridiculous they are? ó dl)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-16T12:47:18-06:00

ID

86358

Comment

I assume Mr. Barrett's still a little bitter that the South "lost." Must be a b!tch to carry a chip that heavy on your shoulder.

Author

kaust

Date

2004-12-16T13:02:49-06:00

ID

86359

Comment

Yes, it's hard to imagine a man from New Jersey still being so disheveled about us losing the "War of Northern Aggression." Of course, there have always been racists everywhere. But the South had the laws to force it on everyone. That was our shameful difference. And, I suppose, what would draw someone like Barrett to our land in the first place. As if we don't have our own yuck-yucks to contend with.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-16T14:19:26-06:00

ID

86360

Comment

so THAT must be when the 'golden years' were, here in mississippi. before our institutes of higher learning were integrated, and there were no blacks on the football teams! thanks, mr. barrett! you're the best! oh, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Author

Jay

Date

2004-12-16T16:16:07-06:00

ID

86361

Comment

You can always count on Mr. Barrett to try to use something that means so much to so many people, in this case, Ole Miss football, as an opportunity to draw attention to himself and dispense his hatred. It's particularly offensive for him to imply that there's some sort of link between a group of genuine heroes, the University Greys, and Colonel Rebel. What the hell does the Civil War have to do with some college student running around in a Southern plantation owner costume? The nicknames "Ole Miss" and "Rebels" don't bother me. What does bother me is the efforts of reactionaries to keep alive traditions like the Confederate battle flag at football games that don't have any place at a state university in the 21st century.

Author

Dr. S

Date

2004-12-16T19:56:29-06:00

ID

86362

Comment

Oh? I thought a football team's strength depended on the quality of coaching, quarterbacking, teamwork, and the player's own SELF-motivation. What do cultural traditions have to do with it? What difference does it make whether the old south symbols and conformist adherence to traditional attitudes have to do with it? Esprit de Corps does have its strong points (namely ability to motivate and develop a sense of pride) -- but "group membership" also tends to exclude people who are outside the mainstream in some way. This reminds me of Trent Lott's editoral about Mississippi being a "tight-knit community". Community is great. I want a sense of community myself - but I also want a place where people are free to be themselves without people getting finger-pointy over nit-picky, non-characters aspects of who a person is.

Author

Philip

Date

2004-12-17T08:36:33-06:00

ID

86363

Comment

Barrett mentions Bear Bryant, but conveniently forgets that Bryant fielded a black quarterback, Walter Lewis. After Sam Cunningham, a black USC player from Birmingham, scored five touchdowns against Alabama in 1970, Bryant brought him into the Tide locker room and said to his own players "This is what a football player looks like."

Author

Count No Account

Date

2004-12-17T10:56:02-06:00

ID

86364

Comment

More on the Bear: He once said that Sylvester Croom, one of the first African Americans to play football at Alabama, was his favorite player. Unfortunately, Alabama forgot about that the last time the school hired a football coach. Mississippi State profitted from Bama's mistake. Unlike Barrett, Bryant changed his attitudes toward race and other things as he grew older. Sure he was just a football coach, but Bear Bryant helped change racial attitudes in the South for the better. And there were thousands of people at his funeral, black and white.

Author

Dr. S

Date

2004-12-17T16:32:07-06:00

ID

86365

Comment

Barrett is such a uniter, Ole Miss should appreciate him for what he did the last time he appeared there with a permit to speak. You won't read about his success at uniting the campus on his web pages, so it might surprise you to hear that. Indeed, his web page articles are a wondrous and amazing blend of half-truths and pure fiction from a stunningly imaginative mind. Too bad that inventive mind is lost to the literary world. When he went to Ole Miss to support Colonel Reb, it brought together black and white activist groups (including the Colonel Reb Foundation activists and the student NAACP chapter), fraternities and soriorities, and just ordinary students, most of them wearing t-shirts with "Turn Your Back on Hate" writ large on the back. The participants had to buy the t-shirts (at cost), which shows their level of commitment to the protest. There weren't enough t-shirts to go around because the size of the group participating exceeded all expectations. All those blacks, whites, and others, hand-in-hand (around 250 of them) must have been frightening to Mr. Barrett, worse even than the sight of his presumed audience facing away from him. I do enjoy reading his colorful and bizarre statements, although many of them cause me a protracted round of head-scratching. "Colonel Reb, the venerable Confederate Gentlemen, many of whose minions are buried on the campus . . ." is one of the strangest in this batch. Since Colonel Reb is a fictitious character, who, I believe, came to the forefront in the '50s, (someone correct me if I am wrong), where did these "minions" come from and when and how were they buried on the campus? The only burials on the campus that I know of are Confederate soldiers, and they can, in no way, have been the minions of the cartoonish mascot, cute as he is. If Barrett is not God's way of making the rest of the bigots look ridiculous, do you suppose some other "outside agitator" group is paying Barrett to do it? (please don't take this statement seriously, any of you literal-minded folks - tongue is firmly in cheek).

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-18T10:14:56-06:00

ID

86366

Comment

Seems like I remember reading a story in the C-L during the flap about Col Reb, that the actual character was based on a black man. They ran a picture of the guy, and he did look a lot like the mascot.

Author

Rico

Date

2004-12-18T13:15:54-06:00

ID

86367

Comment

If I were Ole Miss, I'd change my mascot, Flag, and everything else just to quit being associated with that blowhard, Barrett. Can't we exile him back to Jersey?

Author

Ironghost

Date

2004-12-20T09:24:19-06:00

ID

86368

Comment

No exile! I think we need to pay him for the good work he's doing down here. (smile). Look at the positive things that happened from his attempted foray into the State Fair with Rev. Killen, on top of the way he got students together at Ole Miss who viewpoints are usually at odds with one another. With friends like him, the white supremists don't need any enemies. I tell you, the man is a uniter, not a divider!

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-20T09:57:43-06:00

ID

86369

Comment

Please.... let's not call an avowed seperatist a "uniter". I dislike living here enough simply because of his type.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2004-12-20T17:01:59-06:00

ID

86370

Comment

He came from New Jersey. Would you rather live there? Besides, I say it facetiously, much as I did when I began to agree that GW is a uniter, not a divider (he sure did unite a lot of us against him).

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-20T23:30:39-06:00

ID

86371

Comment

He came from New Jersey. Would you rather live there? Besides, I say it facetiously, much as I did when I began to agree that GW is a uniter, not a divider (he sure did unite a lot of us against him). A sense of humor is a terrible thing to waste.

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-20T23:31:25-06:00

ID

86372

Comment

I'm sorry, I was never accused of having one. :)

Author

Ironghost

Date

2004-12-21T13:16:46-06:00

ID

86373

Comment

I just wanted to say that I thnk Richard Barrett is a disgusting, race mongering BIGOT. Having said that, I wonder why there aren't any members from other races who are just as bad pointed out in the JFP. If we are to have HONEST dialogue, then these must be brought to light also.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-21T18:57:51-06:00

ID

86374

Comment

Personally, I don't know of anyone else of any race who would equate with Mr Barrett. That is what makes him so unique!

Author

Rico

Date

2004-12-21T19:53:14-06:00

ID

86375

Comment

Louis Farrakann-The Nation of Islam. Also, many of his underlings. Very well known.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-21T20:03:53-06:00

ID

86376

Comment

Sorry, I meant locally.

Author

Rico

Date

2004-12-21T22:28:12-06:00

ID

86377

Comment

That's cool Rico. Well, there is a branch of that church here locally. He does visit it and it just never gets attention. I've heard him say some pretty vile things over the years. I think racism of ANY kind is bad and shouldn't be tolerated.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T05:52:21-06:00

ID

86378

Comment

Having said that, I wonder why there aren't any members from other races who are just as bad pointed out in the JFP. Why, Lee, you're onto us. You've officially exposed the conspiracy that the JFP is a fan of any and all racism except that against black people. Personally, I'm not a fan of Louis Farrakhan; however, the Nation of Islam is not exactly the moral equivalent (or opposite) of Richard Barrett. It would be a vast, and rather silly simplification, to try to say that the two are two sides of a coin -- if one knows much about the NOI and its history. I'm not saying the NOI is above criticism -- just that each should be judged on its own merits. My own personal beef with some local members of the Nation of Islam is when I hear them invoke the name of Malcolm Xówhom I greatly admire now (posthumously) in many respects. That is rather a revisionist view of history, as well.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-22T13:23:07-06:00

ID

86379

Comment

BTW, this discussion reminds me of the fact that Sen. Trent Lott was so outraged by Khalil Muhammed's racism that he called for condemning him in Congress -- but refused (as did other white members of the Mississippi congressional delegation) to vote for a resolution honoring the memory of Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner. And, of course, there is his (and many other Mississippi politicians') buddy-buddy relationship with the Council of Conservative Citizens. Oh, but he didn't know what they stood for; nor did Barbour last year. I forgot.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-22T13:26:18-06:00

ID

86380

Comment

I'm not "on to you..." But I NEVER see anything regarding the other side of that coin. Have you never seen Farrakann qoutes calling white people "White Devils..." or Muhammed's comments that are even worse. Let's face it. Someone invented the words Cracker, Whitey, Honkey, oh yes and my favorite; Uncle Tom. These words are just as offensive to me as the "N" word. It's ALL disgusting. If you want to sway Conservatives to at least look at your vision for Mississippi, maybe you should explore ALL sides of the coin you refer to. BTW, I hope the murders in Neshoba are solved and the gulity are put to DEATH. Ronnie Shows claimed the same ignorance about the CCC as did Lott and Barbour. I seem to recall JFP endorsing Shows. What's the difference? There is none. Just put all the information out there. That's my point. Reards, Lee

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T16:27:12-06:00

ID

86381

Comment

BTW I am very GOOD friends of a former NOI member who was a body double for Louis Farakahn. Maybe you should interview him and get the real facts on what they believe. After all, he would know. Maybe Barret and Farakahn aren't as far apart as you think.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T16:30:31-06:00

ID

86382

Comment

You're funny, Lee. You don't seem to read us closely and then you're the expert on what we do and don't do. I have reported, and we have discussed on the blog, that Democrats and even African Americans have spoken to the CofCC. And I am the first to criticize Democrats as well. I repeat: I am not a Democrat. As for Farrakhan, I don't think the world needs the JFP to prove that he was some race issues. ;-) And if your bodyguard-double-friend is in Jackson or Mississippi, that could be a good interview. Hook us up. Oh, and you mention Shows. I believe that we said in print that we were holding our nose and endorsing him, because the alternative was worse. Same went for Musgrove. Finally, I believe you're messing up your logic a bit. Louis Farrakhan's racism, to my knowledge, has nothing to do with Richard Barrett's racism. And he doesn't live in Mississippi. Perhaps you're saying that anyone who considers themselves NOI is a racist, but I know for a fact that's not true. So, frankly, I don't really know what your point is -- other than to perhaps try to make the JFP look bad because we talk about the racism of Mississippians like Richard Barrett too much and too little about the well-documented bigotry of national figures like Farrakhan. I think you're missing your mark on this one. But -- hey -- if you're right, maybe we'll get turned away at the pearly gates, as your good buddy put it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-22T16:43:40-06:00

ID

86383

Comment

I'm just saying you should be balanced in you coverage of these issues. Why is that so hard to understand? As far as my friend, I've offered you him on a silver platter in the past, and you've not taken me up on him yet. Glad to know I'm "funny" AND "silly". I ALWAYS try to have a good disposition. We don't need any angry white males around here! ;-)

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T16:50:29-06:00

ID

86384

Comment

And about Shows: You didn't point out that he appeared before the CCC as you did Lott and Barbour. That would be fair; wouldn't it?

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T16:52:53-06:00

ID

86385

Comment

And I'm no expert on these blogs. I do however, read JFP cover to cover. Let's face it. That's what the public's view of you will be. Not all of you readers come here.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T16:55:56-06:00

ID

86386

Comment

Lee, you're coming on here throwing apples at oranges, and apparently don't even know it. Frankly, I didn't know Shows had appeared before tthe CofCC back when we endorsed him, and I don't know if he's apologized for it. I can forgive old racistsóbut they need to acknowledge what they did wrong and apologize for it (a la Robert Byrd), at the very least. Making up for it by not supporting racist public poliicy would be even better. I believe your logic here is silly, and I've pointed out why. I've also told you that I am not going to appear on a talk-radio show with people who tear down oh-so-liberal issues like, er, public education without the benefits of actually relying on facts. And I don't want to be in the same room with a man who declares that people who don't agree with his political choices are going to hell, er, not getting past the pearly gates, or such. That's idiocy, and it would be waste of my time. This is my last round on this. I'm getting dizzy for no good reason. Happy holidays.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-22T16:58:30-06:00

ID

86387

Comment

BTW Who is "My good buddy...??????" Not following YOUR point at all.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T16:59:43-06:00

ID

86388

Comment

Well, never coming to the table to discuss things gets NOTHING accomplished. So, I guess we'll just continue to slug it out every election day and see who wins. That's unfortunate, but not MY choice.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T17:02:50-06:00

ID

86389

Comment

Have a Merry , um er, holiday.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T17:04:59-06:00

ID

86390

Comment

On the topic of the CofCC, here are links to summaries of the content of the Citizens Informer, done by a professor who tracks white supremacist groups. There are some names scattered throughout them that might be familiar: 1999-to present: http://www.templeofdemocracy.com/CitizenInformer99.htm 1990 to 1998: http://www.templeofdemocracy.com/CitizensInformer.htm

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-22T17:38:38-06:00

ID

86391

Comment

This is off the CofCC Web site (which they've redone recently, I see. The front page, at least, is much less offensive these days): Mississippi CofCC, State Contact P.O. Box 1204 Greenwood, MS 38935 Mississippi is our flagship state! Lots of meetings.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-22T17:40:28-06:00

ID

86392

Comment

Here are a couple of other lists, mine and one put up by a young man from Arkansas with a semi-famous journalist for a father: http://www.mississippipolitical.com/list.htm http://minorjive.typepad.com/hungryblues/2004/12/information_on_.html If any of you know of any state politicians other than Trent Lott who have repudiated the CofCC, I'd be interested in hearing about it. May I say that as far as the CofCC goes, finding a politican in Mississippi who is not a member, or speaker or attendee of CofCC functions is much easier than finding one who has not.

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-22T18:02:57-06:00

ID

86393

Comment

I think the point is also that if/when Farrakhan starts commenting on things like Ole Miss' choice of football coach, and/or moves to MS, then he'd get more coverage. If JFP were to cover every stupid racist sexist remark in the country, there'd be no time for blogging. And that would suck. I vote we keep the comments to the local racist sexist morons.

Author

kate

Date

2004-12-22T18:09:23-06:00

ID

86394

Comment

Think Global, Blog Local. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-22T18:12:20-06:00

ID

86395

Comment

Clean up your own backyard first.....

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-22T18:51:52-06:00

ID

86396

Comment

"Clean up your own backyard first....." I've said what I thought about racist on BOTH sides. None of you have. You want a "local" racist? Kenneth Stokes called Ben Allen a "boy" when he threatened to "slap" him. If the racial make-up of this situation were reversed, the three of you would be razing hell. Sooooooooo..... what I see you saying, is that there are NO black racist in Mississippi? R-I-G-H-T.... Your position continues to deteriorate to a deplorable state. JFP report the BAD on BOTH sides, that's my point.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-22T19:36:49-06:00

ID

86397

Comment

Hmmm. Speaking of Mississippi politicians who support the CofCC....Ben Allen comes to mind. Which three posters on this thread are "you three"? I assume you're speaking to me as one of the three, since you repeated my quote to begin with. A. You have no idea what I would be doing if the racial make-up of this situation were reversed; B. I've never said there were no black racists in this state (I know there is a discussion among some as to whether a black can be a racist or not, and I understand both sides of the argument, but I'm not of the opinion you assigned to me); C. If by "your" position, you mean the JFP, I'm sorry I don't work for JFP. If by "your" position continuing to deterioriate, you mean me personally, please tell me what position you are referring to.

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-22T22:19:41-06:00

ID

86398

Comment

Hi C.W. I blieve I said 'the three of you..' But I digress. ladd, kate and you were the three I was referring to. A. You are right on the money; I don't know. Sorry for that broad, sweeping generalization. Please tell us what you position would be if the situation were reversed. B. What is your position on black racist? C. The position I was refering to was ladd's and the JFP. As ladd said, she didn't know Ronnie Shows had appeared before the CCC. But, you're not gonna see him on the front cover with a dunce hat on being called out for it. Heck C.W., you won't even see a single line about it buried in the back next to "Free Will Astrology". People, regardless of color shouldn't get a free pass on racism.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-23T06:57:04-06:00

ID

86399

Comment

Boy have we wandered away from old Ed being named coach or what. :) In Short: Racism exists. Who has it, and what they are or aren't doing about it is just details.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2004-12-23T09:08:35-06:00

ID

86400

Comment

Lee, I'm highly complimented to be placed in such august company. I can't tell you for sure about the situation being reversed unless each and every detail were the same; however, if that were posssible, I would say the same thing. But that's all very hypothetical. All one can deal with is what faces them, not what *might* face them, and each situation is different. Which leads me to your blast at JFP and what they do and don't print. As long as I've been reading them, I've seen them bend over backward in an attempt to be fair. In what mainstream media have you seen Jim Giles being given the kind of forum he got here, or even Barrett? I admire the JFP evenhandedness, but if you find fault with it, addressing what *you* see as wrong could be better received if you did not feel bound to present it in broad confrontational strokes. I think I stated my position on racism; anyone can be a racist, in my opinion. What you and I are willing to call racism, and when, will likely differ, and I don't intend to get into a long argument on that. There are thousands of nuances in how people perceive racism, and yours and mine are only two. And Ironghost is certainly right about getting away from the subject of Coach O. Are you an Ole Miss fan also, Ironghost? I was disappointed in the manner in which Coach Cut was separated from Ole Miss, but I do look forward to seeing what Coach O has to offer. I really doubt that Mr. Barrett is going to end up with any better opinion of Coach O than Coach Cut, no matter what the rest of us may think. I rather suspect that Coach O will also be recruiting "negroes." (insert smile) He may even do other things Barrett disapproves of. The question is not whether he will or won't recruit blacks or whether he will or won't run a black quarterback, or whether he will or won't support the cbf, the mascot or any of that stuff. The central, big, question is - can he coach a winning team?

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-23T09:49:48-06:00

ID

86401

Comment

Lee, I'm highly complimented to be placed in such august company. I can't tell you for sure about the situation being reversed unless each and every detail were the same; however, if that were posssible, I would say the same thing. But that's all very hypothetical. All one can deal with is what faces them, not what *might* face them, and each situation is different. Which leads me to your blast at JFP and what they do and don't print. As long as I've been reading them, I've seen them bend over backward in an attempt to be fair. In what mainstream media have you seen Jim Giles being given the kind of forum he got here, or even Barrett? I admire the JFP evenhandedness, but if you find fault with it, addressing what *you* see as wrong could be better received if you did not feel bound to present it in broad confrontational strokes. I think I stated my position on racism; anyone can be a racist, in my opinion. What you and I are willing to call racism, and when, will likely differ, and I don't intend to get into a long argument on that. There are thousands of nuances in how people perceive racism, and yours and mine are only two. And Ironghost is certainly right about getting away from the subject of Coach O. Are you an Ole Miss fan also, Ironghost? I was disappointed in the manner in which Coach Cut was separated from Ole Miss, but I do look forward to seeing what Coach O has to offer. I really doubt that Mr. Barrett is going to end up with any better opinion of Coach O than Coach Cut, no matter what the rest of us may think. I rather suspect that Coach O will also be recruiting "negroes." (insert smile) He may even do other things Barrett disapproves of. The question is not whether he will or won't recruit blacks or whether he will or won't run a black quarterback, or whether he will or won't support the cbf, the mascot or any of that stuff. The central, big, question is - can he coach a winning team?

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-23T09:50:00-06:00

ID

86402

Comment

C.W. I guess we just don't agree. But there are people with different views that you won't see in the JFP. Regards, Lee

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-23T09:56:07-06:00

ID

86403

Comment

dude, you're doing that thing of putting words in my mouth, which is annoying at best. I never said or implied that there were no black racists, here or anywhere. The point is that Ole Miss named a coach for some sport or other, Barrett made stupid remarks, and we decided to discuss it. Because he's been in the news lately, and he's dumb enough to issue statements like this. Did NOI or any other group issue a stupid public racist statement on an event in MS lately? Can you point us to it? What would this paper, or any other, look like if it took the time to first and foremost cover all of the stupid racist things said all over the country? Stick around for a while, and you'll see that stupidity is derided, no matter where it comes from. You're pushing a conclusion based on one data point, and don't have any real data to back up your supposition that I think that "there's no black racists."

Author

kate

Date

2004-12-23T10:13:29-06:00

ID

86404

Comment

One last thing, Lee. You say "there are many people with different views that you won't see in the JFP." To which I say, "well, duh." It's an alternative news weekly, not the freakin' Library of Congress.

Author

kate

Date

2004-12-23T10:17:51-06:00

ID

86405

Comment

O.k. What is your position on black racist? I've stated mine about ALL races. It's DISGUSTING no matter the color. And, what would be your take on the Sokes/Allen situation in reverse? As far as NOI, the leaders do say many racist things about many people. They have for years. And again, Ronnie Shows isn't held to the same standard about the CCC here(JFP) as Barbour or Lott.

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-23T13:00:03-06:00

ID

86406

Comment

Lee, my patience has officially run out. You are trolling now, and it's violating our user agreement. Regardless to their views on "racist," people are not jumping up and responding to your taunts -- because they're taunts and you're being a jerk. Pure and simple. Please stop it, or stop posting here. I will tell you what I think about racists: I don't like them no matter what color they are. I have pointed that out in the past; I have written about being kicked out of a meeting because I was white by the Chokwe Lumumba folks (who later apologized to me), I have criticized the NOI in print, I have written about Mike Moore speaking to the CofCC, and so on. But what you're trying to do is excuse one kind of racism by pointing to another. That's classic, and has been an epidemic problem in this state: well, blacks are racist, too, na na na boo boo. Yes, that's true. Some are. Some aren't. Some whites are. Some aren't. But the same people (of whatever race) who usually yell that "they're racist, too!" the loudest are doing it to excuse racism, or not prosecuting civil rights murderers, or whatever. And they're often defining racism in interesting ways (like that affirmative action is racism, or that someone has a black friend can't be a racist, or even that a black person can't be racist toward blacks -- all false). It's excuse-making and everyone except the ones making the excuses knows it. As I always like to say: There is racism everywhere. And that never excuses it anywhere. Lee, you are on a witchhunt, and it's not making you look very good. If you want to discuss the intricacies of racism, have at it -- but the broad, unfounded accusations need to go. As I said, stop trolling for a fight or leave.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-23T13:13:47-06:00

ID

86407

Comment

Glad to see how you feel about all racism. And of course, I hope those murders are solved. I'm not trolling for a fight; I thought this was an open discuusion forum. You make the rules. I've been respectful and called no names (I've been called a few) or personally attacked anyone. I guess this why folks can't come together. If you like I'll stay away. Lee

Author

Lee

Date

2004-12-23T13:23:26-06:00

ID

86408

Comment

That's fine, Lee. Have a good holiday.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-23T13:24:23-06:00

ID

86409

Comment

C. The position I was refering to was ladd's and the JFP. As ladd said, she didn't know Ronnie Shows had appeared before the CCC. But, you're not gonna see him on the front cover with a dunce hat on being called out for it. Heck C.W., you won't even see a single line about it buried in the back next to "Free Will Astrology". Allow me to state right here, Lee, how offensive it is that YOU are tellling ME and the world what I believe. You've officially joined the handful of angry anti-JFPers who put lies about me and the JFP in print on a regular basis because they apparently have nothing better to do than make crap up.Congratulations; I hear it's a delightful, angry little club to belong to. You know what Woody Allen said. The truth is -- whether you or anyone else out there wants to hear it -- is that I will criticize anyone I believe should be criticized, based on actual facts (not made-up crap or political spin), with my real name attached to it and, usually, my picture on top of the column. I don't give a damn what party affilication they are, what color their skin is, who their mama and daddy are, how much money they have, and whether or not talk-radio yucks say I won't get past the pearly gates as a result. I am also just as willing to say positive things about people y'all ideologues want everyone to hate, if they're doing a good thing. What I"m mostly likely to do -- whether it's Kenneth Stokes or Jim Giles -- is to run stories that get into the complexities of who these people are, because nothing is as simplistic or black-and-white as corporate media or political ideologues like to say it is. And this is what a few of y'all don't likeóand exactly the reason this paper is so popular among people of various political and racial backgrounds. The JFP *ISN'T* easy to categorize, or simply dismiss -- because we are truly nonpartisan in the real sense. We call it as we see it -- after actually taking time to do real research and talk to people. And this is what ideologues, on both sides, hate to see happen, because suddenly it's harder to divide people based on B.S. When I ran the alt in Colorado Springs, a bunch of right-wingnuts started sending expletive-filled letters to people who wrote letters to the editor. What was interesting was that they didn't go to the actual "liberal" letter-writers. They targeted the moderates -- because that's where the threat was -- in people who were actually willing to look at different sides and criticize and compliment as deserved. We brought it to the FBI to fix the problem, and it was stopped. However, I learned a bigger lesson in the whole thing: true independent thinking is the biggest threat to extremists; not opposite extremism.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-23T13:55:43-06:00

ID

86410

Comment

Otherwise, your Shows-vs.-Lott point is goofy, and I suspect you know it. Shows hasn't been a public servant since weeks into the JFP's launch; Lott, on the other hand, has been and continues to be. We run his columns, and we are willing to give him credit when we believe it's due. You're really shooting in the dark there, Lee, in your quest to prove the JFP's devotion to anti-whiteness. ;-) Also, it might interest you to know that I sometimes get e-mails with your same gotcha tone from angry African Americans, accusing me of being too white (well, sorry) and not supportive enough of the black community. Fortunately, both extremes are heard from seldom here, and to me, y'all cancel each other out.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-23T13:56:06-06:00

ID

86411

Comment

Now I'd like to go back to the original conversation and what C.W. said earlier: Barrett is such a uniter, Ole Miss should appreciate him for what he did the last time he appeared there with a permit to speak. I appreciate Ironghost's response -- who wants to say something nice about Barrett? However, I tend to agree with C.W.'s sentiment. Unfortunately, too often it takes the outspoken extremists to make us face what's really screwed up about our thinking. And I agree with her that Barrett serves that purpose. The truth is, our race history isn't behind us as many, including well-meaning, people want to say it is. We have murder cases we haven't even tried to prosecute, we have race-based policies in place that disparately hurt people of color and were designed in the first place to, we have all-black public schools where kids have to walk past the symbol of race violence against their grandparents every single day, we have a governor who ran for office with a coded racist campaign. It isn't over, and we can't really move on until we face the racists and the curses still lingering, just waiting for the chance to take us backward rather than forward, regress rather than progress. Like it or not, people like Barrett help expose these problems. And I swear that at our youth voter rally, aside from sheer anomosity between the Samac Richardson and the Bill Skinner campaigns, that the appearance of Jim Giles first made it easier for everyone else of different political persuasians to get along all night. And the truth is, I posted Barrett's letter because he says the same crap that you hear on yuck-radio or even read in the Northside Sun (I still shudder when I think of Wyatt giving an award to that coot who said that blacks should be thankful for slavery). Sometimes people need to see just how ridiculous their beliefs look when put out there by people like Richard Barrett. And it's always telling to watch the very people who espouse much of the same thing try to quickly wiggle their way away from people like Barrett and Giles. I believe they serve a real purpose. Unfortunately.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-23T14:24:27-06:00

ID

86412

Comment

Absoluely, Donna. You said that very nicely. (My attempts at irony are a bit obscure for some.) Sometimes, though, if you don't have a sense of humor about the things that trouble you, you'll get so depressed about it that you'll never make it to the other side of the trouble. As much as I may disagree with Barrett, as long as he's shaking the fence-sitters up, booting people out of their complacency, and providing some folks with a little insight into who is standing with them, I'm glad he's here. As goofy as that sounds, sometimes we need the extremists like Barrett. And, honest-to-goodness, at times, he provides a lot of comic relief. He's almost like a cartoon character (South Park would have a field day with Barrett).

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-12-23T15:39:36-06:00

ID

86413

Comment

As much as I may disagree with Barrett, as long as he's shaking the fence-sitters up, booting people out of their complacency, and providing some folks with a little insight into who is standing with them, I'm glad he's here. As goofy as that sounds, sometimes we need the extremists like Barrett. Amen, sister! ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-12-23T15:45:53-06:00