Jackson Free Press

If you've seen "Fahrenheit 9/11," please share your thoughts about the film. What did you like? What surprised you? What fact did you question? What questions did it raise for you? Did it change your vote, or your plans to vote? Please give us honest—some of which we may run in the print edition—reactions about the film, without devolving into personal attacks or nastiness. Please keep it civil!

Previous Comments

ID

85386

Comment

As I watched George W's reaction, after someone whispered to him the news of the 2nd plane attack, in front of the class of children, watching him taking it in, as Moore's voiceovers condemned him, I felt sorry for Bush for the first time in my life. I am not a Bush supporting by any stretch, but Bush's human attributes that Moore so raked him over I felt was a bit unfair and just another day's political propaganda. I am a liberal, and I understand how after you have heavily been dealing with the everyday world problems that you might try to change the subject, and lighten the mood, after you were asked a serious question when your on the golf green. I think that sort of making a mountain of a molehill is way overcritical. No wonder we have such polarized gridlock in politics today. Like most Michael Moore movies, it would have been alot more effective, and less entertainment fluff, if it had been done different. The sensationalist and horrific images of war should be a rally call for pacifism at large. All war is horrific. I wished a larger point would have been made on how America justifiys war in general. I felt the movie was fairly effective in getting people to perhaps realize that big business and republicans perhaps are more able to see the financial and political benefits of war. I recommend you going to rent "The Fog of War," as a serious follow up documentary on war. Read more here

Author

herman

Date

2004-07-04T17:02:59-06:00

ID

85387

Comment

But the first and middle parts of the movie, I didn't giggle as much as I was suppose to. Some of it was cute propaganda, not telling me anything I didn't already know. Getting people to talk about it is worth seeing. Thats perhaps its strength. As with anything, I dont have to agree with something to watch it. I watch it to see the finer points where I agree and disagree, and it allows me to draw my own conclusions. To me, in the first and middle of the movie, I can easily see how an opposing political party interprets something to push to advantage one's own dirty politics. Both sides exploit bits of information, and filter, and disemanate ONLY what they want you to think. Propaganda makes suckers of believers who can't easily find all the facts, and further divides them from the opposition. The facts Moore likes to ellude to and others ignore only serves as misinformation and pumps halfwitted supporters who don't bother to see if the only supporters in "the coalition of the willing" really was The Rebublic of New Guinea. I have a hard time believing, as Moore's implies, that members of the Bin Ladin family that "owns 7% of America" were never looked at for connections to terrorism before 9/11. The fact that when the U.S. media put Bin Ladin's family's houses on camera, and talking about Mosques getting firebombed, I dont see how them flying to be with their families in Saudi Arabia on 9/13 means anything bad on Bush. If we need them, wont they come back ? Otherwise, yo, lets all divy up that 7% of America they owned. To see Moore try and convience people to make political decisions from such trite one sided, close-minded perspectives is offensive. I hope businessmen in America are trying to have international relationships with leaders and big business in other countries. In order to have diplomacy you must have relationships. It's not Bush's fault we built up Afganistain and made entities the the Taliban exist, to take on the Russians. Maybe we should rethink replacing diplomacy with training the enemy of our enemy to kill each other, only to have the people we trained raise up against us. My point is there are far bigger issues than Moore's feeble and inept political propaganda trying to gain supporters with smoke & mirrors. Thats just preaching to the choir, its a stand up clown act, that shouldn't be taken seriously. If it gets you to think beyond what he says and explore the depths of the bits he throws, thats great. Find out the real reasons why you feel the way you do on issues. You wont find that out from F 9/11.

Author

herman

Date

2004-07-04T17:03:26-06:00

ID

85388

Comment

As posted on the Fahrenhiet 601 site: For me, F9/11 opened up many new ways of looking at politics, big business and international affairs. It definitely made me very concerned about how private business influences politics. As for Bush, I was scared of the man before he took his seat in the Oval Office. I didn't feel like I could trust him. Moore does a very good job highlighting why he does not feel Bush can be trusted and does an excellent job presenting some info while spinning even more. As an opinion piece that is to be expected. Moore paints a very broad picture with many connections that often needed a stretched imagination to bring them to reality... But, many of his points are on target and cannot be disputed. I think this movie definitely attempts to make us think about the perils of war and the families that are destroyed on all sides of the battle. Seeing the Iraqi mothers crying over their lost children was very hard. It was just as dificult watching the American, soldier's mother dealing with her son's recent death and her anger with the Bush administration. My personal favorite was when Moore approached many policy-makers attempting to enlist their children in the service. It reinforced my idea that those in office often do not know what is best for our country's people simply because they cannot relate or choose not to... If these men and women would not enlist their own children to fight this war (that they support), why should we support it and enlist? Those were the most powerful moments in the movie to me... The anguish both of these women expressed and that was captured by Moore will linger in my waking mind for quite a long time. As well, the hypocrisy of the wealthy when it comes to policies and action. I think this is a must-see for EVERYONE regardless of party persuasion. It will make you question corporate media, big business (especially with government contracts), politics (in general), and most importantly international war. I doubt it will be the sole catalyst for a serious change in Bush's popularity but definitely makes a person more curious about Bush's history and connections. Forum Link for reviews: Click here to comment on the movie also...

Author

kaust

Date

2004-07-04T17:48:24-06:00

ID

85389

Comment

What I didn't anticipate was how many kleenex I was going to need (I wish I had taken the box). I didn't realize how powerfully the 9/11 portion was going to affect me at this point in time, and I didn't realize how much blood and gore, dismemberment, shredded arms on children, dead and horribly wounded soldiers and children I'd see. I wept thru those segments - I'm not ashamed to admit it. I do have to agree with Herman on the bit showing Bush's reaction in the schoolroom. Moore's voiceover speculating (rather meanly) about what he was thinking was unnecessary. Bush could just as easily been working on keeping a calm facade in this short period of time when there was really nothing extra he could do that wasn't already being done. He looked worried, but I'd have been more concerned had he not. Still, one can't help but reflect on this - the real president is no Tom Clancy character. Whether he should have been more like one or not is something I am pondering. There were facts brought out that I wasn't aware of or had been aware of but they had slipped my mind. For example, it was interesting seeing the name of the other man (his name was blacked out on the version released by the White House) who also didn't take his National Guard physical at that time and place, and finding out his later connections with Bush (although I'd want to separate that fact from Moore's speculations about it). I'd think it was blacked out to protect his privacy, but was still a bit disturbing to find out the connection. I think this would have been a vastly superior movie with all the footage of the principal players (George W. Bush, Ashcroft, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Baker, etc.), the clear and verifiable facts without the speculative voiceovers, the war footage (as painful as it was to watch), the interviews with soldiers, nothing added. Even just those film clips of the main characters stitched together would have been something else. The mother of the soldier, I don't think that long piece was appropriate. To me it was an exploitation of her at a deeply emotional time. Maybe a few clips from what she said, but the lengthy filming was too much. Just the same, it's an important piece, Moore does make some telling juxtapositions. He brings out connections I hadn't been aware of before, or had forgotten (between companies and politicians, for instance), and highlighted the political process in a very frightening way (a realistic sort of way). I just came from watching the movie, and boy, did it ever depress me. Definately not a warm and fuzzy feel-good piece. And Knol, you are right - everyone ought to see this, even if portions of it make them mad (and I'm sure if Moore makes those who are against the war in Iraq and ready to chuck Bush in the next election upset about some portions, pro-war and pro-Bush folks will come away really angry). But thinking. I'm thinking, and I'm far from thru.

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-07-05T01:18:56-06:00

ID

85390

Comment

I did not feel sorry for Bush at all. A leader is expected to take action in a time of crisis. There is always plenty of time to go to pieces after you are finished dealing with the matter. I remember how fast Clinton got to Tulsa in 1995, and it was the first time I really felt respect for him. Later, I learned he had overruled the Secret Service by going. Anyone ever had to rush a child to the emergency room? Do you just freeze in place if they are bleeding? I know, bad analogy, but the old saying "I knew the risks when I put on the uniform" comes to mind here. Bush was wearing the proverbial uniform that day, even in a classroom. I've already posted my thoughts on seeing the film on the F-601 site, so I won't repeat them here.

Author

corrosiongone

Date

2004-07-05T17:01:24-06:00

ID

85391

Comment

Ultimately, F 9/11 provokes thinking & conversation. Something far too rare in entertainment today. Only after we examine both sides of each coin can we make informed decisions.

Author

herman

Date

2004-07-06T01:22:19-06:00

ID

85392

Comment

Though I have not seen Fahrenheit 9/11 yet, I have been following a lot of the public discussion of the movie. I found the following criticism interesting. It was written by Christopher Hitchens, a British journalist who, by American standards, would be considered very liberal, and is against many of the Bush administrations policies. Those of you that have seen the movie can assess the validity of Hitchens's criticisms. I look forward to seeing the movie so that I can do the same. http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

Author

Justin

Date

2004-07-06T12:30:37-06:00

ID

85393

Comment

Waaa? Hitchens, a liberal? The self-described conservative neo-con that I heard speak at millsaps last winter? He can be called many things, but liberal ain't one of them.

Author

kate

Date

2004-07-06T13:39:44-06:00

ID

85394

Comment

I don't think that someone who writes and article titled "Not Even A Hedgehog: The stupidity of Ronald Regan" (http://slate.msn.com/id/2101842/) can be considered a conservative in the United States.

Author

Justin

Date

2004-07-06T14:36:45-06:00

ID

85395

Comment

I thought this film was incredibly well done both in tone and substance. The way Moore used music created a sense of both lightness and horror side-by-side. Can we laugh and reflect deeply on "horror" at the same time? yes. I was gratifed to hear alternative commentary and see some non-standard footage from Iraq. Gratified not in a pleasant way but in a self-respecting way. I'm for intelligence in thought, which I think is severly lacking in most political discourse--liberal and conservative. By the way, I don't find myself too worried that Moore's vision was one-sided. It was expected. It's kind of like criticizing Bishop Spong's book "Why Bush Must Go" as being too "spiritually motivated". Of course it is! That being said, I'm interested to know of specific instances of factual error.

Author

Izzy

Date

2004-07-06T15:36:13-06:00

ID

85396

Comment

Laurel, one of the biggest problems I have found in finding specific factual errors is that they all stem from the extreme fringes of the right. They could be just as guilty of spinning as Moore... So, I am having an extremely difficult time taking them seriously. I feel if this is all BS, the administration should do everything they can to set the record straight... I don't mean by setting the political attack dogs loose in the press; I mean addressing it directly and taking this seriously. If there are truly so many fallacies, the administration needs to correct this single-handly... Otherwise, they are admitting guilt in too many people's eyes. Remember how Clinton collapsed the Democrats? You think this will degrade the Republicans in the same manner? I, personally, am sick of the double-standards. I was watching a conservative talk show last night and the conservative was bashing the liberals because Michael Moore "skewed" facts and "misrepresented" information... This guy was railing and screaming and ranting about how wrong it was for Michael Moore to opine on the president's situation. Meanwhile, all I could do was think -- if you care so much about Moore's misrepresentations and you really do feel skewed information is worth a heart-attack, why aren't you grilling the Bush administration for misrepresenting so much information about terrorism and Iraq? Why are you so passionate about one, independent person skewing data but not an entire country's leadership? By the by, Moore does have a wealth of information on his site "backing" his claims. Click me... You know you want to.

Author

kaust

Date

2004-07-06T15:49:55-06:00

ID

85397

Comment

Justin, if you do a search on Hitchens at that MSN Slate site, you also get titles like "Ahmad and Me: Defending Chalabi". Maybe we can just agree that Hitchens is something of a blowhard, and definitely appeared drunk when he spoke at Millsaps last winter - at which point in time he declared himself a neocon. Unless he's swapped sides on the issue, last I heard he was in full support of the war in Iraq. Which implies, at least to me, that we can't present his critique of Michael Moore as coming from a 'liberal' perspective. How's this, if you don't call him a liberal, I won't call him a conservative. let's just call him crazy, and be done with it.

Author

kate

Date

2004-07-06T17:15:07-06:00

ID

85398

Comment

Justin, in Barry Goldwater's autobiography, he described Ronald Reagan as "Either hopelessly inept or a most accomplished liar". Richard Nixon was "Possibly the most dishonest man I ever met". You'll never catch me calling Goldwater a liberal.

Author

corrosiongone

Date

2004-07-06T19:47:14-06:00

ID

85399

Comment

I know what you mean Knol. All this spinning to & fro will only continue to polarize politics to the point where they can never agree on the most assinine of points. Hearing the musical "Cocaine" riff and the theme song from the Greatest American Hero ("Believe it or not I'm walking on Air...") was a nice treat. The Greatest American Hero was one of my favorite shows of that era of Mork & Mindy, Fantasy Island, Square Pegs, & Voyagers.

Author

herman

Date

2004-07-07T00:23:13-06:00

ID

85400

Comment

Re Hitchens: I think the back and forth on whether he is "liberal" or "conservative" makes the point well that there are more than two ideological places to be. Hitchens calls himself a "neo-con"--which is usually used to meant a former liberal who, er, comes to their senses and becomes a conservative, at least on foreign-policy issues. (And, in the case of Iraq, seemingly predicts everything exactly backward; remember the opposition that was going to be shocked and awed into submission, a la the neo-cons) It is important to consider, though, that Hitchens is a very independent thinker, even within his neo-con-ness -- he told us sitting in Que Sera last year that his favorite candidate for president was John Edwards, and I'm not sure you're not hearing too many "neo-cons" saying that right now. I think it's safe to say that Mr. Hitchens is in a class by himself. ;-) Personally, I think the label "neo-con" is more confusing than anything these days--it seems to mean mostly folks who decide to change their ideology for personal, often selfish reasons--but that is based on my personal experience with individuals who start calling themselves "neo-cons" without seeming to know what it means, so perhaps it isn't fair to the serious neo-cons of the world. Or to Christopher Hitchens.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T16:41:56-06:00

ID

85401

Comment

Speaking of double standards, Knol: How about Dick Cheney telling Patrick to Leahy to "fuck himself" on the floor of the Senate, then traveling around the country extolling conservative "values." What the @#%$ was that all about?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T16:43:53-06:00

ID

85402

Comment

I do love this blog's little internal censor. Maybe Mr. Cheney should get himself one. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T16:44:45-06:00

ID

85403

Comment

Ah, Kate, I'm not the only one who noticed a possible drinking "thing" with Hitchens, huh? So Hitchens claims to be a neocon? That's about par for course for him. Hitchens is like 'American Idol's' Simon - with an edge. :-) I've had a little problem with Cheny's first name in here, too, Donna. Made me laugh hysterically.

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-07-07T18:13:24-06:00

ID

85404

Comment

He was drunk at Millsaps. We watched him get that way that afternoon, and went with him to the liquor store; he seems to be one of those writers who pride themselves on their ability to wow audiences while intoxicated. (And he was dressed like Mark Twain.) I just think he's increasingly irrelevant -- not because he is willing to skewer both the liberal and conservative status quo; I like that -- but because he seems more interested in the publicity from skewering ... whomever. He's just not very convincing to me as a neo-con; it comes across to me as brilliant excuse-making. It was funny, though, to hear him defend the Bush administration at Millsaps and make some folks very happen, and then to watch them start squirming when he went after Republicans and fundamentalism. You have to be very careful about cherry-picking Hitchens as folks often try to do. Of course, people cherry-pick Jefferson all the time as well, or the Bible, for that matter, so I guess it's not a new problem.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T18:30:45-06:00

ID

85405

Comment

Actually, C.W., I don't feel like that woman was exploited at all. She has said on various occasions that the movie really helped her with her grief. And I think it was her story that really spoke to a lot of people. Those facts? Those are easy for real politicians (even politican-ly minded non-politicians) to just disregard those.. or call Moore a fact-stretcher or something similar. But you can't argue grief. Even the hardest souls are likely to commiserate with her grief. And that's what should be shown! That's what the media isn't showing on the nightly news. They want to dehumanize war, take all faces off of it. Her story touched me... I could see my own mother in her.. found myself worried for my own brother (who will soon deploy to Iraq) in her son's letters. More than anything, it showed me that the war is not just this abstract idea that people support or protest, it's real, and it's affecting people who are trying their hardest to just make a positive difference in their own home towns.

Author

casey

Date

2004-07-07T20:34:58-06:00

ID

85406

Comment

Good points, Casey. I find it interesting that everyone remembers a different scene; some are powerful for certain people; others for different ones. I suspect that is by design. I think the scared soldiers touched me the most (remember that young woman's face?), and the pictures of the Iraqi people being maimed and killed in a war ostensibly to liberate them. It's too easy to gloss the human price of war; this administration is almost flip about it. Watched any of those Rumsfeld press conferences? Lawdy, what a disaster that man is.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T20:39:09-06:00

ID

85407

Comment

Oh, and to be reminded that this administration doesn't want the funerals and caskets of American soldiers shown. And that they are cutting their benefits, even as they send these scared kids to an ill-planned war. It's simply breathtaking, their hubris.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T20:40:40-06:00

ID

85408

Comment

yeah, i think the finances are what spoke to my mother the most. she doesn't want her baby going without while various head repubs make money via various "special interest" (and i mean that ironically) groups

Author

casey

Date

2004-07-07T21:03:25-06:00

ID

85409

Comment

Did your mom see it? It must be very difficult for parents to see this film.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T21:06:11-06:00

ID

85410

Comment

yeah, we went as a family the other day. She used to send money to GHW Bush's campaign, so she was really surprised at the stuff about him. She definitely cried through most of it. I was wary of them seeing it with Dustin (my brother) leaving soon, but they were insistent. My mother is a Republican; my dad just pretty much does what she tells him to do. She had some bones to pick with Mr. Moore after the film, definitely, but for the most part, I think it really impacted the way she is viewing Bush now. More than anything, it has inspired her to start seeking out other forms of information other than ye olde Fox News. her dad was in the military, so was my dad.. so she's pretty invested in military talk, but I'm ultimately glad she saw it (even though I'm sure it left her, as it did me, with some disturbing images to replay in her mind while Dustin is away).

Author

casey

Date

2004-07-07T21:56:35-06:00

ID

85411

Comment

Wow, your family is very courageous to see this film together right before your brother goes. Godspeed to him. She had some bones to pick with Mr. Moore after the film, definitely, but for the most part, I think it really impacted the way she is viewing Bush now. That seems a pretty unanimous sentiment among people I've heard from about the film. It seems that it's the folks who haven't seen it, and never will, damn it, who haven't been touched by it at all. Their choice.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T22:33:41-06:00

ID

85412

Comment

From Katha Pollit's column about F9/11" The odd thing is, I found the movie immensely cheering and energizing, even though I don't agree with its main thesis, drawn from Unger, that Bush's oil-business interests, particularly his close financial and personal connections with the Saudis, drove his post-9/11 decisions to go easy on Saudi Arabia and invade Afghanistan and Iraq. I think President Gore might well have invaded Afghanistan too--although, who knows, maybe the Republicans would have thwarted him out of spite. I also think that key promoters of the war in Iraq--Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld--were motivated by a sincere, if deranged, belief that overthrowing Saddam would usher in US- and Israel-friendly capitalist democracies all over the Middle East. They had, after all, been pushing for regime change for years. Like all Moore's movies, Fahrenheit 9/11is somewhat muddled and self-contradictory. Just as Bowling for Columbine excoriated the NRA while arguing that guns don't kill people, Americans kill people,Fahrenheit 9/11 simultaneously argues that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are wrong and unnecessary and that we need to send more troops; that the Bush Administration does too much and too little to protect the country from another terrorist attack; that Bush is an idiot and a lightweight and that he is a master of calculation. Actually, come to think of it, that's not such a contradiction--but I wish Moore had acknowledged Bush's obvious political skills. It's not easy to fool 40 percent of the people 100 percent of the time. [...] Watching Bush sit in that elementary classroom pretending to read My Pet Goat for seven long minutes after being notified of the second plane crashing into the World Trade Center, you see a man who is paralyzed and stunned, who hasn't a clue, because there's no one there to tell him what to do, no stage set, like the flight deck of USS Abraham Lincoln, and no audience before which to look manly and resolute.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T22:51:43-06:00

ID

85413

Comment

MORE Moore's critics are going over the movie frame by frame, but he's phrased his most controversial contentions, about the Saudi flights, carefully. He doesn't actually say they took off while the airports were closed, and he doesn't say the bin Ladens weren't interviewed, although a viewer could get that impression. Other complaints seem trivial. Does it really matter if Moore says only one child of a congressperson or senator is serving in Iraq, and doesn't mention that a few others are in the armed forces, just not there? Of course, the scene in which Moore tries to hand out recruitment literature to politicos is unfair: It's not as if parents can enlist their kids. The scene works, though, because Moore's basic point is right: Politicians whose own kids are safely ensconced in the Ivies send off to die in Iraq the children of women like Lila Lipscomb, the vibrant working-class Flint woman Moore follows in the second half of the movie, who puts out the flag every morning and who has always encouraged her kids to join the military as a path to a better life. Her grief and rage when her son is killed in Iraq are unbearable to watch. Surrounded by her large, interracial family, she reads her son's last letter home: "He got us out here for nothing whatsoever. I'm so furious right now, Mama." There are plenty of mothers and fathers like her--but you don't see Katie Couric ("Navy SEALs rock!" ) interviewing them. Take your friends, your relatives, your book club, your drinking buddies, take teenagers (it's R-rated), take that nice Republican in the office, take David Brooks and the staff of The Weekly Standard, and the Council of Economic Advisers! And then send your ticket stub to George W. Bush, so he'll know you're watching.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T22:54:15-06:00

ID

85414

Comment

hahah wouldn't that be funny if we had kept all of those stubs from que sera that night and mailed ole GW a nice care package? my mother sent him this letter saying she couldn't vote for him due to his recent anti-gay stuff, and she told him she'd be praying for him to get his head on straight, and he sent back a form letter thanking her for her prayers and support !

Author

casey

Date

2004-07-07T23:44:10-06:00

ID

85415

Comment

Bless her heart. They say women will be the heart and soul of this election. Get this: We do have all the tickets stubs. When you return, you can mail them off if you want! A little gift from Mississippiówhere, you know, everyone thinks just like George Bush and Trent Lott. As if Bush would have any idea what it's like to come of age in a trailer park in Neshoba County. "Our values," my butt. I just finished putting the issue up in your absence, BTW. Only about 12 hours later than you would have been!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-07T23:53:05-06:00

ID

85416

Comment

awesome! i'll definitely mail them when i get back. be thinking of any other gifts we could offer him ;) maybe a gift certificate for a free trip to neshoba!

Author

casey

Date

2004-07-07T23:57:16-06:00

ID

85417

Comment

Bush may figure out that he should go to the Neshoba County Fair on his own to drop some coded rhetoric of his own, being that it worked so well for Reagan. Neshoba County, though, is changing, thankfully, although the sheer number of Confederate flags (not Mississippi flags, mind you, but the unadulterated original) are staggering. I think it's why I haven't been able to convince Todd how much fun the fair is. Of course, it's the main thing he holds against Oxford, too, I think. ;-) Mississippi, meet 21st century. 21st century, Mississippi. Hmmm, gifts for Bush. What are some other signs of Mississippi's growing progressive population?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-08T00:01:10-06:00

ID

85418

Comment

It is hard for me, too, to view that travesty of the old Cross of St. Andrew. And it wasn't even a Scot who designed it; Pierre G.T. Beuregarrd is the culprit. I like the Jamaican version better- nice happy colors.

Author

corrosiongone

Date

2004-07-08T03:19:41-06:00

ID

85419

Comment

I say we send pictures of Mississippi's interracial and gay families to Bush. Hell, our good, ol' boy Lott could stand a few of those photos himself. You know -- those people don't exist in the South. It's all red-blooded, white, upper, middle-class American's that vote in the red. ;-) Let's also take photos of the abundance of Kerry stickers in relation to Bush stickers in the city... Has anyone noticed there seems to be fewer Bush stickers than last year at this time?

Author

kaust

Date

2004-07-08T10:10:11-06:00

ID

85420

Comment

agreed, knol. definitely a good idea. we should work on that together :)

Author

casey

Date

2004-07-08T10:48:58-06:00

ID

85421

Comment

Someone just sent me this e-mail: I went to Parkway with some friends last night and saw the Michael Moore film F911. it was great. I am so glad we got it here. (funny that it is not on the Marquee!) We laughed and cried and are hoping its impact starts more movement in the country toward freedom and democracy. we need it. Why isn't it on the marquee?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-08T12:23:27-06:00

ID

85422

Comment

Also, y'all should read the Time magazine cover story about Moore this week if you haven't already. Two things jumped out at me: Dale Earnhardt Jr. took his crew to see F9/11 (!) and the military film service (whatever it's called) requested it for military bases (!). You'd think that violated the Patriot Acts, somehow. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-08T12:27:16-06:00

ID

85423

Comment

FYI: for those that don't subscribe to Time or purchase the magazine, the full text is on MichaelMoore.com.

Author

kaust

Date

2004-07-08T12:30:06-06:00

ID

85424

Comment

Thanks for gettin' my back, Knol. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-08T12:33:45-06:00

ID

85425

Comment

Oxford? Why would Todd hold that against Oxford? You won't see half as many in Oxford as most other places in Mississippi, not even at ball games. By the way, Oxford voted yes on the new flag a couple or three years ago . . . . didya know that, Todd?

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-07-08T22:34:45-06:00

ID

85426

Comment

I didn't say anything about Oxford?!? Whose yelling at me and why?

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2004-07-09T11:14:28-06:00

ID

85427

Comment

Whoops, C.W., I shouldn't have made that throwaway comment on Todd's behalf. ;-) (Forgive me, Todd.) I'm probably projecting my fear of seeing a bunch of big Confederate flags mounted on the backs of pickup trucks on game day than actually having seen them do it. And I do hear there is still some pride over the unadulterated flag floating around Faulkner's town, although it's great that the town voted for the new flag. Here in Jackson, we see the Mississippi flag in front of state office buildings and public schools (tragic!), but don't see a whole lot of the actual flag, except on trucks from outside the city sometimes. But it's kind of at a minimum, thankfully. Now the Neshoba County Fair is shocking in its embrace of the real thing. It does hurt the experience of going there for me as well, I must say. It's sad, really.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-09T11:33:02-06:00

ID

85428

Comment

I was reading at michaelmoore.com that tons of theaters are selling out this film. makes me proud for once...hmmm...

Author

Izzy

Date

2004-07-09T12:11:14-06:00

ID

85429

Comment

FYI: There are rumors that F9/11 is not showing this weekend. In case you heard it, don't believe it. I just checked Fandango and it is still listed at all 3 theaters! I may even see it a second time this weekend. Some of my more conservative friends need an escort. ;-)

Author

kaust

Date

2004-07-09T12:14:24-06:00

ID

85430

Comment

Hey, if Dale Earnhardt can take his crew, I think it has universal appeal. Of course, Dale Jr. could be a real progresssive at heart. I have no idea, and shouldn't make assumptions. Ass, you, me. Knol, did you figure out if some of the theaters don't have it on their marquee, or is that rumor, too? A business story I saw somewhere yesterday said that Michael Eisner at Disney is in hot water with the company's board because they chose not to distribute F9/11 and are now losing all this money. I'm paraphrasing from memory, but it was something close to that. Maybe this bust up the ignorant stereotypes that (a) non-Republicans don't have money to spend, and spend it and (b) non-Republicans don't believe in free enterprise. Those are goofy, and costly, assumptions if you're trying to run a successful business.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-09T12:19:04-06:00

ID

85431

Comment

I know what you mean about an escort. I'm still convincing my Republican boyfriend to go--

Author

Izzy

Date

2004-07-09T12:52:55-06:00

ID

85432

Comment

Tell him y'all can't discuss the film if he doesn't go. Listening to Limbaugh doesn't count. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-09T12:59:31-06:00

ID

85433

Comment

Yeah, he's a talk radio junkie. ;)

Author

Izzy

Date

2004-07-09T13:17:55-06:00

ID

85434

Comment

Ah, talk radio: the least factchecked medium out there. It is pretty amusing to hear the ditto-heads of the world complaining about inaccuracies in Moore's film.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-09T13:38:03-06:00

ID

85435

Comment

Sorry, Todd, not yelling at you, just being defensive. :-) Lotta bad stuff to live down. You can still see plenty of confederate flags in Oxford, but you'll see more in Tupelo, say, or just about any of the little towns around. You'd be more likely to see a cbf licence plate (lots of those) or bumper stickers. Especially on game day when all the outatowners are here for the game (but that's outatowners). I'd say that you can see a young (African-American) man marching around town in a confederate jacket waving a big cbf, but I haven't seen him lately. I understand that he has a restraining order against going on the campus (because of the fights he seems determined to start) and I haven't seen him in front of the courthouse lately, either. He's quite vocal and rather hostile (I've tried talking to him in a friendly way in an attempt to understand what he was getting at, but I wasn't able to get past the yelling and hostility).

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-07-09T13:48:03-06:00

ID

85436

Comment

Hey, C.W., try being from Neshoba County. You go through your life being defensive, but that's starting to change, thankfully. I'm very pride of people there right now -- although I suspect the CBFs will still be flying proud, come the fair. Ick.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-09T13:51:37-06:00

ID

85437

Comment

Well, I don't have a problem with CBFs i(in the appropriate place), and in less appropriate places, I think it's a great idea that some people come with warning tags. :-)

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-07-09T15:24:00-06:00

ID

85438

Comment

Good point, C.W.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-09T15:29:02-06:00

ID

85439

Comment

CW, you may have just changed my whole perspective on CBFs - they're darn useful, when viewed in that light.

Author

kate

Date

2004-07-09T16:15:06-06:00

ID

85440

Comment

Found this article about Lila Lipscomb, the soldier's mom turned anti-Bush, on Salon... Thought I'd share. Link

Author

kaust

Date

2004-07-09T16:20:09-06:00

ID

85441

Comment

Knol, some of us don't subscribe to Salon (I know it's hard to believe, but my budget is just too tight - one of those working poor you're always hearing statistics on). You wouldn't want to do a cut and paste, would you? Share with us po' folks. :-)

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-07-09T22:43:59-06:00

ID

85442

Comment

CW, there's a free option on Salon. You just have to click through a stack of ads.

Author

kate

Date

2004-07-09T23:04:52-06:00

ID

85443

Comment

Thanks, Kate. I thought I could only use that free option once. I don't mind the ads if I can get to the story.

Author

C.W.

Date

2004-07-09T23:10:11-06:00

ID

85444

Comment

And you can always run the ads in the background with the sound off while you do something else. ;-) We can't cut and paste whole articles here, due to copyright law, so it's worth it to take a few seconds and let the ad run.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-10T15:51:50-06:00

ID

85445

Comment

With regard to local theaters that are showing Farenheit 9/11, yes, the UA Parkway Place 10 in Flowood is showing it, but it is not appearing on the outside marquis. I questioned an employee on 7/3 when I saw it and again on 7/10 when I went back for another movie. I was told that the manager felt that it was "too controversial" and didn't want to cause problems so she decided that it should not appear on the outside marquis. HUH????? Should someone clue this woman as to what year it is and what country we live in? I already contacted corporate to voice my opinion, but I thought others might want to know about an obvious form of censorship being conducted in our own community apparently for our "own good." Ugh.........

Author

Marian

Date

2004-07-11T23:12:29-06:00

ID

85446

Comment

Because, really, there hasn't been enough discussion about this film, I want to point to The Farenheit Boiling Point at Salon. Moore stumbles into a revelation here, albeit clumsily and unwittingly: Soldiers aren't so easily stereotyped. The reality is, they are complex, just like you and me, with both strengths and weaknesses. The American media has, through the years, done a poor job of communicating this to the public. Most media, lazily avoiding complexity so as to squeeze a war into the 30-minute evening newscast, paint soldiers as morally flawless, with a superhuman sense of duty and honor. ("I think Navy SEALs rock!" Katie Couric cheerfully cries in "Fahrenheit 9/11.") Most pop history books -- such as "The Greatest Generation" ---only reinforce this notion. As a result, America is shocked when confronted with atrocities like My Lai or, today, Abu Ghraib. How could our boys do this? But equally wrong, of course, were those who shouted "baby killer" at every veteran who returned from Vietnam. Most veterans were nothing of the sort --and I would bet most protesters were as keenly aware of that then as they are now. The soldiers of that age were just as they are today -- mostly earnest young American men and women who, for the most part, proudly served their country overseas and prayed like all hell they would come home in one piece. for other movies to watch, the author recommends: For an antiwar documentary with the substance to meet Moore's style, you're better off watching the more intelligent if less entertaining "Uncovered." Far less exciting to watch than "Fahrenheit 9/11," "Uncovered" is content to run interviews with dozens of high-level government officials who offer candid testimony as to how they feel the administration misled the country and marched down a path toward unjustified war. Released in 2003, the documentary by Robert Greenwald (also the director of "Outfoxed") is largely a cult success, selling more than 100,000 copies online, and it will air this fall on the Sundance Channel.

Author

kate

Date

2004-07-15T15:41:42-06:00

ID

85447

Comment

This just in from Moveon.org: "According to a new poll released today, viewership of Fahrenheit 9/11 continues to grow with 11% of all voters now reporting they have seen Michael MooreÇs film. This is nearly double the number of viewers since the July 4th weekend, when 6% reported having seen the movie. "An additional 33% intend to see Fahrenheit 9/11, which means that 44% of all voters in the 2004 Presidential election could be exposed to the film."

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-07-15T15:50:36-06:00

ID

85448

Comment

As a former Midlander, I was not surprised about what Moore shared with us all. There are so much more to add to Michael's film, that if you dig them up, you would ask yourself "where does it stop?" It is public knowledge now that our clean-cut president liked to snort the white powder...but, since his family and his followers are inc control of most of the media, you just don't hear about it so much. I feel that it is nice that finally someone has used the movie industry to inform as Moore has done. The things that we needed to consider in electing him from the start (same for his daddy) isn't what you know about him, but what you didn't know. However, as an oliman, he is a salesman first. He is only going to tell you what he wanted to tell you to get the job. Once the transaction took place, whatever came from our decision in electing him would be our problem. In the case of Bush, he is not just "our" problem. He is the world's problem now. An example: the headlines read today that he was not going to have investigations directed towards the possibility of Iran having an involvement in 9/11. Unlike Clintin's experience in his college years of not inhaling, Mr. President was not in college, as he was in his mid-30's and a father at the time that he was last reported as taking the stuff, maybe even beyond his 30's. Then there are the scrammbled stories of Daddy Bush's days in the CIA and his involvement with the JFK assasination. I recall a story from Midland Reporter Telegram (newspaper) (either in 1988 or 1998) of a local Midland man being given a trunk that belonged to his father. In that trunk was extremely strong evidence of Bush's connection to the JFK assasination, as well as this man's father's involvement as one of the shooters. It seems that wherever there was trouble, there was a Bush around the corner. The S&L scandal, Watergate...not only did he (Sr.) shake hands with the Bin Laden Family, but Castro as well! Okay, I am sick of this conversation. We are fortunate that Jr. did not have any sons, perhaps the breed will one day be non-existant and no longer "our" problem.

Author

P.M. Maiorano

Date

2004-07-19T21:45:59-06:00