Jackson Free Press

Greenville (S.C.) Mayor Knox White says the G-Braves are in play, and that a suburban Mississippi city has an offer on the table to lure the AA franchise from Greenville.

Previous Comments

ID

118113

Comment

Can we get in a request in advance for them to choose a different nickname?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-24T12:42:43-06:00

ID

118114

Comment

For what it's worth, the Braves nickname derives more directly from Tammany Hall, which used terms like "wigwam" & "braves." When James E. Gaffney headed a group that bought the Boston Rustlers, the team was renamed.

Author

Ex

Date

2004-03-24T17:50:58-06:00

ID

118115

Comment

Did the tomahawk come from Tammany Hall? ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-24T18:22:05-06:00

ID

118116

Comment

Depends, I didn't see Gangs of New York. *grin* In all seriousness, the tomahawk first became part of the Braves uniform in 1946.

Author

Ex

Date

2004-03-24T18:59:40-06:00

ID

118117

Comment

How about changing the team's nickname to the Choctaws?

Author

Dr. S

Date

2004-03-24T23:08:47-06:00

ID

118118

Comment

I think that's taken. What's wrong with, say, Tigers?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-24T23:24:03-06:00

ID

118119

Comment

How about renaming them the Cherokees? Then we could call the team's fans "Cherokee Nation." We could also follow Alcorn State's lead and call the field either The Reservation or The Scalping Grounds.

Author

Dr. S

Date

2004-03-25T00:13:29-06:00

ID

118120

Comment

If we have Native American associations, we should name the team after the tribes that lived in the Jackson area before the whites "acquired" their land. Anybody know which group it was?

Author

Philip

Date

2004-03-25T03:53:53-06:00

ID

118121

Comment

Philip, if I remember correctly, the Choctaws mostly lived in the central Mississippi area. Still, with the Natchez Trace, why not be called "the Traders".... Hell, it represents a bond between both native and foreign inhabitants and reflects on the once powerful trade route. ...And it doesn't single out one specific ethnicity, tribe, etc. Further, it gives us an opportunity to enlighten others on our heritage and how necessary our land, bounties, and communities have been throughout the years! But, after saying it a few times, it certainly does sound alot like "traitors." That would be a bit of a stumbling block.

Author

kaust

Date

2004-03-25T10:20:15-06:00

ID

118122

Comment

The Pearl Traitors? I don't know...has a certain ring to it :-)

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2004-03-25T12:55:01-06:00

ID

118123

Comment

Anyone know where this fascination with naming sports teams after Native American tribes comes from? And if anyone has ever actually contacted their tribal councils before co-opting their names? It seems a very bizarre practice to me. I simply can't watch the Atlanta Braves out of fear of hearing that dumbass war chant. Of course, there have historically been other reasons to boycott the Braves, so that's not the only one. We did stumble across a game last year, I think, when the Peark River Resort blimp (owned by the Choctaws, Philip) was floating nonchalantly over the Braves vs. the Mets, I believe. That gave me a giggle. The Choctaws aren't the most subtle folks in the world about their success, and I applaud them for that. They deserve their time in the sun, so to speak. Now, I do know of one sports team with a Native American nickname that makes sense: The Choctaw Central Warriors. Another question: Does anyone know of another name for a group of people, ethnicity or the like, that sports teams are named after? I can't think of any, but maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-25T14:16:01-06:00

ID

118124

Comment

a little off the subject but . . . I have a friend attending U of georgia. During one of his classes, the topic of Native Americans came up and the professor instructed the class to refer to Native Americans as "First Citizens." Well, the class took this and ran with it. Some students basically told the professor that he/she was an ass, while other students started going woo woo woo woo and placing their hands over their mouths. The professor was so pissed that he/she left the classroom. Maybe pearl should name the team the Pearl Woo Woo's. Not saying it is right ot wrong, but it sure is funny.

Author

jimjam

Date

2004-03-25T14:43:39-06:00

ID

118125

Comment

a little off the subject but . . . I have a friend attending U of georgia. During one of his classes, the topic of Native Americans came up and the professor instructed the class to refer to Native Americans as "First Citizens." Well, the class took this and ran with it. Some students basically told the professor that he/she was an ass, while other students started going woo woo woo woo and placing their hands over their mouths. The professor was so pissed that he/she left the classroom. Maybe pearl should name the team the Pearl Woo Woo's. Not saying it is right ot wrong, but it sure is funny.

Author

jimjam

Date

2004-03-25T14:45:09-06:00

ID

118126

Comment

sorry for 2X posting. Computer problems.

Author

jimjam

Date

2004-03-25T14:48:23-06:00

ID

118127

Comment

I have to get my "Pearl" joke in... After all, it's not fair to mention Pearl without playing with the stereotypes we've all come to know and love in the Metro area. Maybe we should call them the "Pearl Trailers"? Ok... Now that that's out of my way and I'm stuck with many boos and hisses from the audience, you definitely have an interesting point, Donna. Now that I think of it, I could not tell you another sports team that is named after a specific ethnic group. They're all usually generic/non-specific references to animals or groups of people such as the Saints, Steelers, and Packers.

Author

kaust

Date

2004-03-25T14:50:37-06:00

ID

118128

Comment

The Minnesota Vikings spring to mind. There are lots of Nordic nicknames floating around out there in high schools and colleges. ... Don't forget the Iona and St. Mary's Gaels. The Brooklyn Arcadians. Union (NY) College Dutchmen. Hofstra U. Flying Dutchmen (it's been changed). Exeter Grecians, Buffalo Germans. Maryville (Tenn.) Scots. Agnes Scott (Ga.) Scotties. Oh yeah, Notre Dame Fighing Irish and the million other teams with the Irish nickname. Sheffield Zulus.

Author

Dr. S

Date

2004-03-25T15:25:20-06:00

ID

118129

Comment

Thanks Dr. S... Shows what a sports fan I am.

Author

kaust

Date

2004-03-25T15:27:09-06:00

ID

118130

Comment

Hey, careful, I'm a former Trailer Girl. ;-) Certainly, Knol, you make a good point whether you mean to or not. Jimjam, I don't find your woo-woo anecdote funny. It's really kind of sad, and I suspect out of context. I can imagine a professor standing in front of a classroom full of college students who have no idea about the hertiage of Native Americans -- I grew up hearing about the "lazy, drunk Choctaws" all around us, who were in fact the descendants of one of smartest, savviest most capitalistic tribes in America -- and trying to explain that Native Americans are really the "first citizens." They are. Now, if the professor really demanded that they *only* refer to them as "first citizens," that sounds like overkill. However, it is certainly no more offensive than the apparent sophomoric "woo-woo" response of the young intellectuals in the class. That's really a sad story.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-25T15:29:55-06:00

ID

118131

Comment

I've always found the obsession with "political correctness" very bizarre. Certainly, there have been attempts to overdo PC terminology (womyn comes to mind), but it's usually wackos doing that, and I suspect their actual number is no greater than the bigots who prefer that we use white-supremacist terminology for everything. And the only time it's really a problem is when it's government-imposed speech. That's a violation of free speech; someone suggesting that a particular phrase is offensive is simply them expressing their free speech, and there is nothing "fascist" about that. And there's certainly wrong with speech to counter speech; that's what it's all about. (John Stossel got this point miserably wrong during a TV special he did one time about free speech at Brown University.) What gets me, though, is when people start whining that you're being PC if you say something--like say using a N.A. nickname for a sports team that contains no Native Americans--is offensive. It's as if the right to be offensive trumps all others; it's the most important thing. My point is always that I'm not saying that you have to change something; I'm a free speech kind of gal. I'm saying that you should in order to make the world a kinder, gentler place, and to set good examples for young people. (The Confederate battle flag comes to mind here.) It always kills me to hear the argument (much as STossel made) that you have the right to say anything you want, no matter how offensive (which I agree with), but that people who disagree with you or call you out for being offensive do not have the right to speak up, call you offensive or even shout you down. Speech flows two ways, ladies and gentlemen, and it includes the right to tell someone they're being offensive to an entire group of people, and it makes them look like jerks for defending offensive speech. I don't believe in censorship, but I sure believe in speaking up (if y'all hadn't noticed ). Speech over. I'm going to Rainbow now. (BTW, Doc, I had just thought of the Fighting Irish, too. Of course, a lot of the players and fans are actually Irish Catholic, I'd think.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-25T15:32:30-06:00

ID

118132

Comment

There's always the Stanford Cardinal. The color, mind you, not the catholic guys. Which I think was the ultimate expression of PC-ness, and so is incredibly lame.

Author

kate

Date

2004-03-25T17:45:59-06:00

ID

118133

Comment

Don't forget Ole Miss' mascot, Colonel Slavemaster, which was an accurate portrait of the mindset of many of the Rebels' older fans. Which explains a lot about the troubled past of that university and this state.

Author

Dr. S

Date

2004-03-25T18:57:37-06:00

ID

118134

Comment

Now, remind us what year Ole Miss adopted the Colonel as their mascot. That says a lot too, eh?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-25T19:01:02-06:00

ID

118135

Comment

The guy in elderly plantation owner's suit made his first appearance on the sideline in 1979, replacing the fellow who wore a Confederate officer's uniform (and sometimes carried a saber). Doctor S doesn't have a problem with the nickname Rebels, but the mascot's costume is embarrassing. Not as embarrassing as the tree suit Stanford's mascot wears, though. And the world has been a better place since the Confederate battle flag was retired as an official Ole Miss emblem, too.

Author

Dr. S

Date

2004-03-25T19:47:23-06:00

ID

118136

Comment

So that Col. Reb tradition has been firmly in place since the year I graduated from high school. You can see why it's so ingrained and meaningful. ;-) I pretty much agree with you, Doc: the "rebels" part doesn't particularly bother me, either, but the old plantation costume and any government-endorsed use (which a public university is) of the Confederate battle flag is, well, offensive. And I don't just mean to black Mississippians; I mean to white Mississippians who have no desire to live in the past. Sure, put the damn thing in a museum, or in front of your house if you must, or wear it plastered on your chest, but fly it in in front of Jackson public high schools that are 95 percent or more black? No thank you. That's an insult to us all, regardless of race. I simply cannot understand the government endorsing an image that is offensive to so many people. It's just weird. Of course, I realize we're getting far afield from your Pearl Braves posting, so I apologize. Poor Doc: we bloggers spread politics all over his sports blog! ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2004-03-25T20:26:58-06:00

ID

118137

Comment

Dont forget the University of Louisiana-Lafayette "Ragin' Cajuns" ..... and the Texas A&M Aggies (Farmers). Also, a suburban Dallas high school (Lewisville, if you are curious Todd) has "Fightin' Farmers" (strange since Lewisville has long been as suburban as suburbs can get!). As for more Mississippi-specific matters -- remember the plan to change the logo to something less offensive? Good concept, but poor artwork (the cartoon of the mean looking center with a football was a good concept, but to use other's words "he looked too much like Mr. Clean"). All I can say is "go back to the drawing board". Surely we can come up with better artistic renditions for Ole Miss

Author

Philip

Date

2004-03-26T00:06:00-06:00

ID

118138

Comment

It occurs to me that the old plantation owner mascot could make some money for y'all who are alumni of "Ol Miss." Its become popular to add the name of some corporation or other to the (usually taxpayer built) stadium of major league teams, ex. Enron Stadium home of the Houston Astros has now become Minute Maid Park. I suggest that you consider corporate sponsorship of the U of Mississippi sports teams with accompanying subsidies (Haley Barbour should enthusiastically support this privatization of the logo and mascot). Why not call the "Ol Miss." teams the Kentucky Fried Chicken Colonel Sanders U. of Mississippi Rebels? Should be a lot of popular support for the move by folks from Mississippi State and Southern Miss.:)

Author

butterat

Date

2004-06-25T01:55:43-06:00

ID

118139

Comment

It occurs to me that the old plantation owner mascot could make some money for y'all who are alumni of "Ol Miss." Its become popular to add the name of some corporation or other to the (usually taxpayer built) stadium of major league teams, ex. Enron Stadium home of the Houston Astros has now become Minute Maid Park. I suggest that you consider corporate sponsorship of the U of Mississippi sports teams with accompanying subsidies (Haley Barbour should enthusiastically support this privatization of the logo and mascot). Why not call the "Ol Miss." teams the Kentucky Fried Chicken Colonel Sanders U. of Mississippi Rebels? Should be a lot of popular support for the move by folks from Mississippi State and Southern Miss.:)

Author

butterat

Date

2004-06-25T01:56:07-06:00