Jackson Free Press

My condolences go out to rap mega-star Nelly and his immediate family. In case you haven't heard, Nelly's sister, 31-year-old Jackie Donahue, lost her battle with leukemia recently. What a lot of people don't know is that Nelly spent a lot of his time trying simply to save his sister's life. As some families can attest, fighting leukemia, or any other terminal illness, is not cheap. Luckily for Nelly, the blessings of the music industry allowed him the means to start the Jes Us 4 Jackie Foundation. His fame and fortune helped shine light on the condition of his sister and those like her.

I wonder, however, how his sister's death affected the women in Atlanta's Spelman College. I wonder if they feel just a little guilty. As you may recall, it was the women of Spelman who protested a recent visit by the multi-platinum artist. Although he was trying to raise funds for his foundation, the school decided to use the opportunity to, in my opinion, grandstand.

The issue: Nelly's "Tip-Drill" video and its depiction of women. Apparently, barring his appearance was going to erase hundreds of years of misogyny in one day. Thus, my problem with society in general. Our outrage is usually horribly misplaced. Making Nelly the new poster child for women's equality is about as idiotic as blaming hip-hop for violence in America.

I've had the opportunity to be on several music-video sets, including my own. What a lot of laypeople fail to understand is that everyone on set gets paid—including the women. There are legitimate casting agencies all over the country that get paid top dollar to supply music videos with beautiful "extras"—the women you see in those elaborate club scenes, the stylish pool scenes, even the artist's love. The women in Nelly's video—paid extras.

It's a business, people. When the cameras shut down, the women get their checks and wait for the next call. No one held a gun to their heads and said, "Parade around in the video wearing a skimpy bikini." They do it willingly. The young lady who had the credit card swiped down her nether regions offered herself up for the infamous shot.

I'm not condoning it by any means, but I must be fair. Nelly is certainly not to blame. Plus, if women were not willing to subject themselves to such situations, the music industry at large would be forced to find alternatives. As I've stressed in previous columns, the mindset comes from mom and dad. If you don't want to see your daughter half-naked in a music video, then you must instill that at home. Artists can't pay the women if none of them are willing to show up.

The Spelman women are guilty of what a lot of African American leaders are guilty of (i.e. C. Deloris Tucker, Al Sharpton)—using hip-hop as a scapegoat to garner free publicity. Saving lives is paramount. It should have superseded the school's desire to protest. Who knows, the money raised on that day could have contributed to sparing a life, Jackie's included. Instead, she is no longer with us. No, the women of Spelman didn't kill her; leukemia did. But maybe next time they'll pick their battles a little more carefully.

And that's the truth ... SHO-NUFF.

Kamikaze's column appears regularly in the Jackson Free Press.

Previous Comments

ID

69850

Comment

I did not realize that Nelly was fundraising before the protest; however, the women of Spelman were doing exactly what you encourage women to do do combat the mysogyny. Simply not participating though has not proven effective...and I applaud the women for taking it one step further by voicing their opinions in addition to not participating. Of course artists can't pay women if they are not willing to show up, but I believe women wouldn't show up if they were being paid fairly for non-sexual endeavors. And also to be fair, perhaps an expression of such strong sisterhood at Spelman encouraged some woman, hopefully women, to empower themselves and know that what is popular is not always right. My condolences to Nelly and to use his fame for fundraising.

Author

emilyb

Date

2005-04-11T07:54:42-06:00

ID

69851

Comment

I believe women ARE paid for non-sexual endeavors. There are women executives in music, women directors, women producers, artists, dancers, even deejays. on radio and in the clubs. And from the looks of things they are gettin PAID!!!! The reason folks are in the music biz is to get paid!!! The point I think Kamikaze is making is that those women who do parade around in the videos are doing it, not because they can't do anything else, but because they WANT to!!!! and as long as they are willing there will be someone willing to pay them to do it. Sadly, there are women who enjoy this, they welcome the attention, and they get a rush from using thier bodies to further themselves. The more women fight it, thee more women that pop up that are willing to do it. So as long as that occurs, what do you think us red-blooded American males are gonna do...watch it!! Yes the protest at Spellman probably did encourage some women, but it more than likely went in one ear and out the other to some. Hell, there may have been one or two Spellman grads in the video...who knows.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-04-11T08:28:05-06:00

ID

69852

Comment

Apparently, barring his appearance was going to erase hundreds of years of misogyny in one day. That's SO not the point. As with any movement for equality, you have to start somewhere, and protesting -- raising vocal opposition to -- bad messages in the media is as good a place as any to start, especially these days, when the media and their messages manage to worm their way into just about every corner of our minds. I've had the opportunity to be on several music-video sets, including my own. What a lot of laypeople fail to understand is that everyone on set gets paidóincluding the women. Also totally not the point. The point is the message that these videos send to young people -- on the one hand, to boys, who are told that women are provided basically for their pleasure; on the other hand, to girls, who are told that being some guy's "toy" is a goal worth aiming for. The message sucks, and the women at Spelman did a good job of bringing that fact to everyone's attention, IMO. -- Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-04-11T09:10:17-06:00

ID

69853

Comment

I think the death of Nelly's sister and the fact he did a soft porn video are two totally different issues. The latter of which doesn't justify the aforementioned in no way shape or form. The women at Spelman College and Essence magazine did a damn good job of using this particular video as one to make an example out of. Nelly's and David's careers be damned. so be it.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-11T13:22:23-06:00

ID

69854

Comment

Kamikaze: "Nelly is certainly not to blame." Errr, well then who is??

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-04-11T15:13:38-06:00

ID

69855

Comment

Gotta agree; apples and moon rocks. The death of Nelly's sister is tragic even if the guy makes less-than-wonderful music videos, and Nelly's videos are still less-than-wonderful even if his sister died. Nelly can change the way he does music videos so places like Spelman will welcome him, or he keep doing music videos the way he does and live with the fact that this might restrict his charity venues. I mean, let's take this argument to its logical conclusion--Nelly and Spelman sounds sane, but what about the Apollo Theater and Lynyrd Skynyrd? First Baptist and Marilyn Manson? Does a venue have to host somebody its constituency finds offensive just because there's charity fundraising involved? Come on. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-11T17:19:41-06:00

ID

69856

Comment

It is a flawed argument. What do I expect red-blooded American men to do? Respect women. Like the women of Spelman, I expect it. We all have a dog in this hunt. I'm having a hard time accepting the argument that some women think its okay so it's not my responsibility. That argument was flawed when a few women were complacent without the right to vote. It was flawed when it was used against integration. The list goes on and on. I'm still not buying it. Again, hooray for Spelman.

Author

emilyb

Date

2005-04-11T17:59:00-06:00

ID

69857

Comment

Amen. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-11T18:09:30-06:00

ID

69858

Comment

I don't know how many of you actually listen to hip hop, watch hip hop videos etc..., but the only fact in this peice that plants the flag on top of this unforunately high mountain is that these women are not forced to get in these videos. They make conscious decisions to show their assets. Contrary to popular opinion money is NOT the only reason why they are allowing themselves to be degraded in this fashion. They do it because they are groupies who want to see themselves on videos. They want men to look at them in awe. They want to be sex kittens, if you will. Now, to that regard it's NOT NELLY'S FAULT...I take issue with the public for holding these artists accountable for suppling employment to these women. They have a job to do and that is to sell records. They should not be held accountable for these over 18 year old women's decisions. They are the ones who do it. And just like anything else in this society, if you let them do it they will. Just like Bush, if you let him continue to raise the gas prices so that the rich can get richer, guess what he'll do it. If you stay in a relationship, women, where your man is kickin your a** every night, guess what he's going to do it. Stop being so "holier than thou". It's really funny that here in AMERICA everyone has an opinion about everything else. Why aren't the women of Spelman boycotting the talent agencies and modeling agencies that supply these women for these videos. Why are they attacking the artist who is only doing what they perceive their job to be. How many of you, women, would actually say I ain't going to to wear no bikini even if you are offered $800 for 10 minutes worth of work! NONE. Stop hating because you have a voice...start understanding what people are going through may not be what you have been through. All you high and mighty's who think you know how the rest of the world should be, you should probably make sure you are right within first.

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-12T13:01:34-06:00

ID

69859

Comment

I don't know how many of you actually listen to hip hop, watch hip hop videos etc..., but the only fact in this peice that plants the flag on top of this unforunately high mountain is that these women are not forced to get in these videos. They make conscious decisions to show their assets. Contrary to popular opinion money is NOT the only reason why they are allowing themselves to be degraded in this fashion. They do it because they are groupies who want to see themselves on videos. They want men to look at them in awe. They want to be sex kittens, if you will. Now, to that regard it's NOT NELLY'S FAULT...I take issue with the public for holding these artists accountable for suppling employment to these women. They have a job to do and that is to sell records. They should not be held accountable for these over 18 year old women's decisions. Bull. First of all, as I wrote above, what the women in the videos are choosing as their occupation is not the issue. The issue is the message that the video sends. Secondly, the idea that it's perfectly OK to pay people to do whatever they are willing to do for money is morally bankrupt. As an example, and putting aside for a moment the fact that I'm gay, the fact that women are willing to perform sexual acts for money (because they are trapped in an oppressive system that leaves them few if any other options) doesn't mean it's OK for me to pay them to do so. That would mean I'd be contributing to the problem, obviously. -- Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-04-12T13:20:26-06:00

ID

69860

Comment

Queen601, I would never argue with anybody's God-given right to use their own booty to make money. But just because someone is morally permitted to do something does not mean that I am obligated, or that Spelman College is obligated, to support that person. I don't visit strip clubs. That isn't because I believe that women don't have the right to earn money by stripping (on the contrary, I think our strip club laws are probably too strict); it's because I don't personally want to mess with strip clubs. I reserve that right, and Spelman reserves the right not to mess with Nelly. If he wants to keep making nasty videos, he's going to have to live with the fact that some people won't want to have him over to do his schtick. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-12T13:32:37-06:00

ID

69861

Comment

Okay Tom, your point is well taken. However, I must insist that it is not Nelly's duty nor any other artist to make decisions for these women either. I don't go to strip clubs either, not because for the same reason that you don't, my choice is not to go. However, it is the choice of those women to go in there day in and day out and have people come and pay to look at them wantingly. It seems that there is a double standard here. First you want to hold Nelly responsible for making the video (this is for Tim) but then you don't want to hold these woman accountable for their own moral decisions or lack there of. It seems to me that it's an easy target to blame the artist who's name you know, who's face you see. It's easier to blame him than it is to blame this society that makes it okay. No, I am not making it okay. I just don't agree that Nelly is the one who should be held accountable. We all have a share in the responsiblity, if people didn't go to strip clubs, who would the strippers entertain. If these women didn't allow themselves to be held in this regard, then Nelly and others like him would be forced to find another way to entertain, but why should they now when the women are willing. It's not just this issue, what about video games that have pornographic content or violence. Is it wrong for Walmart to sell Def Jam - fight for New York... they use profanity on every line. AND! Shouldn't Spelman be boycotting Walmart and Target and all these family stores that sell these items. Personally, I think this is yet another attack on HIP HOP because of a lack of understanding and an inablity for you to relate to a lifestyle that may be unlike your own. MORE POWER TO YA NELLY...if they let you do it, do it... they are the only ones who should be the judge of their character. Not Nelly, not Tim, not Tom, not Donna and not Queen. Only those females and if it is not offending them to be in the videos who are the Spelman women or any reader on this site to say that what they choose is wrong or right for that matter.

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-12T13:42:29-06:00

ID

69862

Comment

I wouldn't say it's Nelly's duty to make decisions for these women, but it also isn't Spelman's duty to host Nelly--or my duty to buy Nelly's records--if we don't care for his music or his image. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-12T13:54:32-06:00

ID

69863

Comment

It sounds like Spelman is just saying, to parphrase from a sports movie, "There's two kinds of fools. One that ÖuhÖ gets nekkid and howls at the moon and one that does it in my house. The first one I kin ignore. The second, I Öuh... got to do something about."

Author

GDIModerate

Date

2005-04-12T14:03:50-06:00

ID

69864

Comment

First you want to hold Nelly responsible for making the video (this is for Tim) but then you don't want to hold these woman accountable for their own moral decisions or lack there of. Yep, Nelly is responsible for making the video. He's responsible for creating yet another place for women to be exploited -- willingly or not -- and yet another lousy message that nobody, least of all our young people, needs to see. The fact that these women choose to appear in the video doesn't lessen the fact that by doing so, they cheapen other women. -- Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-04-12T14:10:54-06:00

ID

69865

Comment

I can see all sides of this argument. While I understand how the videos can be degrading to women - especially the message they send out(!) - I can understand that some women (certainly just as with men) ARE, in fact, raunchy enough to volunteer to perform regardless of how financially well-off they are (i.e. Russia's Catherine the Great, for a famous example from the last few centuries). On the other hand, the music industry (and entertainment industry in general) certainly need to consider the psychological effects upon others (especially adolescents) of continuous exposure to such videos. I'm not saying Nelly's and others videos have to get the Religious Right's seal of approval. However, I think artists should brainstorm for ways to raise the dignity of women in videos without necessarily "going Disney". Would talking with women about what is "sexy but dignified" generate fresh ideas about videos and music -- neither "Leave It to Beaver" nor "2LiveCrew", but something more realistic AND dignified? Keep the "sexy" part, as I said (if that's actually what sells), but give the women directly involved a voice in how they really want the video produced. Who knows? Maybe even a few of those very Spelman women will come banging on your talent agency's door!

Author

Philip

Date

2005-04-12T16:12:34-06:00

ID

69866

Comment

Queen601, you're confused. Yes, freedom of speech, expression, ok, fine. But, those Spelman women are trying to stand up for the decent, strong black women out there who feel that this type of video is making all black women look a little hoe'ish. You seem like the type who would get in one of these videos from how you're responding(no offense). Now personally I laughed at the video because I found it funny, albiet very cheesy and unoriginal. My son probably got turned on which is ok I guess but whatever. Yes, those freaks in the videos like this one choose to be in those videos but most of them don't belong to a certified modeling agency. Most of them are just dirtbag strippers that they offer to be in the videos for a fee. If you are still confused about the point and message sent by this video and why theirs an uproar about it's taste(poor) by Nelly, then look at BET and MTV tomorrow and you're going to see his new video in which he puts the babes in a good light. It's a nice looking video without all the dented up assed with booty shorts riding up their nether regions with some overcharged credit card being slice through it.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-14T06:40:20-06:00

ID

69867

Comment

I've said on other threads, and this one above, that we all have dogs in this hunt. I don't just blame Nelly. Motley Crew annoyed me when they did it, just for example. I don't blame just hip hop, I don't blame just society, I don't blame just men or just women. But the images hurt and demean women everywhere. And I am thankful to this paper for exploring the issue. I've found it very intimidating sometimes to discuss the mysogyny in music because it quickly gets turned around into I'm just "hating." "If you stay in a relationship, women, where your man is kickin your a** every night, guess what he's going to do it." And that line right there just scares me. Blaming the woman has been an easy scapegoat for society. Makes it easier for a police officer to excuse it as "just a domestic situation." Makes it easier for us to turn the other way and ignore it. Makes it easier for the cycle of violence to continue. Yes, I do think women should be empowered and strong. I like to think I'm one of those strong women myself. But when resources are limited, when the burden of child-rearing is often placed upon our shoulders, when we earn less on the dollar than our male counterparts, well, it just makes it tricky. I would love to see the printed letter to the editor in this week's edition in response to Kamikaze's column on the forum.

Author

emilyb

Date

2005-04-14T07:22:51-06:00

ID

69868

Comment

Kamikaze: "Nelly is certainly not to blame." Errr, well then who is?? I'd like to hear your response to this question too, kamikaze.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-14T09:05:33-06:00

ID

69869

Comment

The Spelman women are guilty of what a lot of African American leaders are guilty of (i.e. C. Deloris Tucker, Al Sharpton)óusing hip-hop as a scapegoat to garner free publicity. ^Sounds just like Ol'Kenny Stokes to me...lol..chortle...chortle...

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-14T09:10:27-06:00

ID

69870

Comment

Black Man: Sweetie, allow me to express to you that your statement above that I seem like one that might be in a video like this simply because of my post is just an example of the sick twisted and ill-informed opinions of the majority of the folk who respond on this site. I have every right to my opinion and so that you are okay with continuing this conversation after I'm done, let me tell you...i would be in a video...however, I would not do anything that in my opinion degrades me. My personal choice, not what you or anyone else deems is degrading. And that my dear is what you are failing to understand. Because you don't think its right, and the women at Spelman, does not make it right or wrong. It makes it your opinion. Which you have every right to. I think these women have made adult decisions and that is all that's necessary to state about their decisions -- its theirs. For this to be a such a Christian society everyone seems to be doing a buttload of judging. Matter of factly, I think it's unnecessary to do videos in this fashion just to sell records. But do you think Clive Davis or any other record label owners give a darn about my opinion. I'd love to see a society that uplifts women and allows black folk the same opportunites as our caucasian brothers and sisters and a society that is not surrounded by sex, drugs, and violence...but unfortunately it is not that way. So, since you got all the answers, what can we do to change it? You can't offer me an answer can you. Do you know why, simply put, you don't understand the problem. So how can you offer a solution. You think the problem is Nelly for making the video...the problem is the society who accepts this from the music industry. Nelly is doing what he knows to do to keep his family feed. He didn't ask for this hand, he's playing the cards as they were dealt to him. Just as I am sure, if you take a moment to evaluate all your decisions, you will notice that somewhere in your life you've done somethings that compromised your beliefs in some fashion and that people would think you were wrong for doing...but you did it...difference is...Nelly is famous and you are not!

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-16T21:14:23-06:00

ID

69871

Comment

Black Man: Sweetie, allow me to express to you that your statement above that I seem like one that might be in a video like this simply because of my post is just an example of the sick twisted and ill-informed opinions of the majority of the folk who respond on this site. I have every right to my opinion and so that you are okay with continuing this conversation after I'm done, let me tell you...i would be in a video...however, I would not do anything that in my opinion degrades me. My personal choice, not what you or anyone else deems is degrading. And that my dear is what you are failing to understand. Because you don't think its right, and the women at Spelman, does not make it right or wrong. It makes it your opinion. Which you have every right to. I think these women have made adult decisions and that is all that's necessary to state about their decisions -- its theirs. For this to be a such a Christian society everyone seems to be doing a buttload of judging. Matter of factly, I think it's unnecessary to do videos in this fashion just to sell records. But do you think Clive Davis or any other record label owners give a darn about my opinion. I'd love to see a society that uplifts women and allows black folk the same opportunites as our caucasian brothers and sisters and a society that is not surrounded by sex, drugs, and violence...but unfortunately it is not that way. So, since you got all the answers, what can we do to change it? You can't offer me an answer can you. Do you know why, simply put, you don't understand the problem. So how can you offer a solution. You think the problem is Nelly for making the video...the problem is the society who accepts this from the music industry. Nelly is doing what he knows to do to keep his family feed. He didn't ask for this hand, he's playing the cards as they were dealt to him. Just as I am sure, if you take a moment to evaluate all your decisions, you will notice that somewhere in your life you've done somethings that compromised your beliefs in some fashion and that people would think you were wrong for doing...but you did it...difference is...Nelly is famous and you are not!

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-16T21:14:29-06:00

ID

69872

Comment

You think the problem is Nelly for making the video...the problem is the society who accepts this from the music industry. Nelly is doing what he knows to do to keep his family feed. He didn't ask for this hand, he's playing the cards as they were dealt to him. AFAIK that argument didn't work at Nuremburg. I don't see any reason why it should work here either. -- Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-04-17T00:32:10-06:00

ID

69873

Comment

I don't think Nelly is evil, and I don't lose sleep over the fact that he paid a woman to have a credit card swiped up her nether regions in a music video. But truth is that the man makes silly, degrading music, Spelman is within its rights to say no, and so am I. The idea that Spelman is morally obligated to host Nelly is ridiculous. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-17T01:49:57-06:00

ID

69874

Comment

Wow. "High and mighties." "Sick and twisted and ill-informed." "Stop hating because you have a voice." Those are some really strong statements to throw at others who express an opinion. I don't have all the answers, but I know for a fact that turning a blind eye to the increasing exploitation is NOT the answer. And falling prey to the "you don't understand therefore your opinion is not valid" pressure is not the answer either. And lumping everyone who finds the video problematic as misinformed and judgemental is not the answer. I think expressing a distate for mysogynistic lyrics and images in popular culture is not derived of hate. And the fact of the matter is, if you want to put a line down it as only the hip hop culture would understand...I would like to point out that I've heard just as many white men listening to the music as anyone else, so it is not isolated to one culture. Again, I don't just blame Nelly. Or hip hop. But anything that is demeaning or hurtful to women deserves an opposing voice. Doesn't make me holier than thou. Believe it or not I admire and often agree with Kamikaze. But when I first read this piece, and especially after reading some comments following, I get the feeling of "Shhhh...quit talking so loud. You are entitled to your opinion, but you just don't understand...so hush up now." I don't know how to make the secret, special links, but I imagine Lauryn expresses my opinion much better than I in this instance: http://www.lyricsstyle.com/l/laurynhill/doowop.html

Author

emilyb

Date

2005-04-17T08:10:14-06:00

ID

69875

Comment

And I also would not wear a bikini for 10 minutes of work for 800 dollars. So you've found at least one.

Author

emilyb

Date

2005-04-17T08:28:02-06:00

ID

69876

Comment

Love the lyrics. You might get a kick out of this article and the story of Sarah Jones in general: http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/596/596p8b.htm I don't think everyone who gets paid to show off his/her body is being exploited or degrading anybody; I used to know someone who did a little swimsuit modeling, and she would wear a bikini for a lot more than 10 minutes of work and usually (I'm guessing) get paid less than $800, and I don't think there was anything wrong with that. No problem with nude modeling, either, though I'm disgusted with the porn aesthetic and the way it has infected our entire culture. So many beautiful women who think they're ugly, and so many "beautiful" women who have had layers and cycles of cosmetic surgery until they look like the victims they are. But all in all, I don't think hiring women and men to show off their bodies is, in and of itself, degrading. It all depends on the specific circumstances--how they're being used, and why. The context should always be positive and affirming, and not use models in such a way as to promote the idea that "b--ches ain't sh-t but hoes and tricks." If you want to know why some of us get hung up on rap, Queen, Google that phrase--I'm not going to link to that garbage--and read what two of the most successful and widely-respected rappers out there, Dre and Snoop, have to say about the role of women in their lives. It's sick. Now, Nelly never said anything like that. But honestly, Queen, he's best known for singing: "It's getting hot in herre / so take off all your clothes" and women responding, with a tone of voice suggesting all the warmth and independence of a voice modulator, "I-am-getting-so-hot, I-wanna-take-my-clothes-off." (a) That's too stupid for words. (b) When you factor in the way women are portrayed in his videos and in his other songs, I wouldn't want to host the guy either. Spelman made the right decision. I wouldn't have criticized them if they hosted Nelly, but they were right to say no. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-17T09:22:06-06:00

ID

69877

Comment

Incidentally, I think part of the problem can be summed up, Queen, exactly by something you just said: How many of you, women, would actually say I ain't going to to wear no bikini even if you are offered $800 for 10 minutes worth of work! NONE. Yeah, and that's exactly the message the industry is sending: That every woman is a ho. Pay enough and her body's yours. That's the way it works, isn't it? "NONE." Think hard about what that word means. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-17T09:26:34-06:00

ID

69878

Comment

All, good discussion, but remember name-calling isn't allowed.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-04-17T13:26:13-06:00

ID

69879

Comment

Yeah, you all make good points. And please emilyb and all the other readers, accept my apology for being a bit rough with my terminology. I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion. As I have every right to my own. Truth of the matter is, I think that deep down each of us share one common opinion and that is that society is projecting an image of women that is not acceptable. Where we differ is, who should make the stand. I feel like women should hold themselves to a higher regard when society "makes" them do things like this for money. However, some of you feel like it's the artists fault. I don't know where the happy median will arise. All I know is, the labels and television and radio and artists and even the models are getting paid a whole lot more than I am sticking to my values and morals. And while we are sitting here dancing around these issues, the girls are dancing around parading themselves just for us to have a discussion tool. So what do we do?

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-18T15:13:55-06:00

ID

69880

Comment

I feel like women should hold themselves to a higher regard when society "makes" them do things like this for money. However, some of you feel like it's the artists fault. I agree with you that the women who do this should bear their share of the responsibility for the message that's being sent. However, I don't understand how you can absolve the artist when it's the artist that CREATES, or at least propagates, the message. All I know is, the labels and television and radio and artists and even the models are getting paid a whole lot more than I am sticking to my values and morals. Don't you think that what you're hanging on to is worth a lot more than the pay they're getting? And while we are sitting here dancing around these issues, the girls are dancing around parading themselves just for us to have a discussion tool. I don't think we're dancing around the issues at all. So what do we do? I still say the women at Spelman got it right: call the artists on the lousy messages they are putting out there. They should be using their influence and talent to send young people positive messages (which, BTW, needn't mean "Disneyfied" messages, just as Philip pointed out above). -- Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-04-19T07:21:53-06:00

ID

69881

Comment

Tim, I have debated this issue so long that now, I have began to rethink my stand. I think you are probably right, and I believe that emilyb also made this statement. It is a problem that all these entities should share the blame in. You are right, if the artists were to make a stand and provide a more positive role for these ladies then they would not be contributing to this issue. However, I don't know how much of a stand they are able to make when the labels that pay them require that they feed into the sex and violence that sells. So, I'm still a little wishy washy on that particular issue. As for the women at Spelman, sure they have the right to protest what they believe, however, if they want results, Nelly is not the person they should be focusing on. They should be focusing on the director of the video (since Nelly did not direct that video) or the label owners who require this type of activity from the rappers. So, I must admit that with all this discussion, I see your point of view and to some degree I concede. So I guess dancing around the issue as I said before has at least offered us the ability to come to a more common ground. Thanks.

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-19T09:55:20-06:00

ID

69882

Comment

Tim, I have debated this issue so long that now, I have began to rethink my stand. I think you are probably right, and I believe that emilyb also made this statement. It is a problem that all these entities should share the blame in. You are right, if the artists were to make a stand and provide a more positive role for these ladies then they would not be contributing to this issue. However, I don't know how much of a stand they are able to make when the labels that pay them require that they feed into the sex and violence that sells. So, I'm still a little wishy washy on that particular issue. As for the women at Spelman, sure they have the right to protest what they believe, however, if they want results, Nelly is not the only person they should be focusing on. They should be focusing on the director of the video (since Nelly did not direct that video) or the label owners who require this type of activity from the rappers. So, I must admit that with all this discussion, I see your point of view and to some degree I concede. So I guess dancing around the issue as I said before has at least offered us the ability to come to a more common ground. Thanks.

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-19T09:55:42-06:00

ID

69883

Comment

I apologize that I submitted this twice, however I added a word.

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-04-19T09:57:24-06:00

ID

69884

Comment

After further review of the video and the responses in this topic, I realized that...Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one but some of them stink like hell. Nelly is a millionaire is he not? America is a seller's market is it not? He's just doing what sells and what this society calls for. YOU don't like it? MOVE TO CHINA. It's just entertainment to me. just like Hollywood. Most of the people in that video probably never been that close to a stripper in their entire lives and the card swipe was indeed hilarious! I wouldn't mind seeing more ridiculously cheesy videos like this to laugh at. It's what my black people are good at, entertaining the masses. The ugly strippers got paid to shake their fart boxes, so what? That's what they're for, right? And you obviously can't blame American society for Nelly's actions either because it's clear that Nelly has at least ONE moral bone in his forehead because he started a foundation for his ailing sister. So you can keep all the talk about "It's societies' fault, Don't blame Nelly" because that sounds like the average cop-out and is based on petty martydom. Life is about making GOOD choices and NO society can alter them negatively unless you allow them to. America wasn't built on morals/equality anyway so who gives a pot about that stuff? NOBODY is interested in preachy music in a secular forum. you want that, GO BACK TO CHURCH. You wished to blame those women for going after their money(judging), but exalt Nelly for going after his(supporting)? How christian of you. what do we do? NOTHING...make another video just like it with better looking women.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-19T10:06:38-06:00

ID

69885

Comment

Queen601: Thanks for your comments. I'm glad we were able to find common ground. Best regards, Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-04-19T10:15:38-06:00

ID

69886

Comment

After further review of the video and the responses in this topic, I realized that...Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one but some of them stink like hell. Nelly is a millionaire is he not? America is a seller's market is it not? He's just doing what sells and what this society calls for. YOU don't like it? MOVE TO CHINA. It's just entertainment to me. just like Hollywood. Most of the people in that video probably never been that close to a stripper in their entire lives and the card swipe was indeed hilarious! I wouldn't mind seeing more ridiculously cheesy videos like this to laugh at. It's what my black people are good at, entertaining the masses. The ugly strippers got paid to shake their fart boxes, so what? That's what they're for, right? And you obviously can't blame American society for Nelly's actions either because it's clear that Nelly has at least ONE moral bone in his forehead because he started a foundation for his ailing sister. So you can keep all the talk about "It's societies' fault, Don't blame Nelly" because that sounds like the average cop-out and is based on petty martydom. Life is about making GOOD choices and NO society can alter them negatively unless you allow them to. America wasn't built on morals/equality anyway so who gives a pot about that stuff? NOBODY is interested in preachy music in a secular forum. you want that, GO BACK TO CHURCH. You wished to blame those women for going after their money(judging), but exalt Nelly for going after his(supporting)? How christian of you. what do we do? NOTHING...make another video just like it with better looking women.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-19T10:30:35-06:00

ID

69887

Comment

NELLY is the LAST WORD on the who/what/when/why/and where of his videos/music/movies/etc..as are many major artists in the music business...not the women/ not the labels...so therefore NELLY IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE, as he should be. He just recently did a cleaner video with Snoop Dog which I think is real nice. He wanted all that naked a$$ on this particular project and he got it. So don't get mad if venues slam the door in his face in disgust. That's just part of the business and he asked for it.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-19T10:34:47-06:00

ID

69888

Comment

And while we are sitting here dancing around these issues, the girls are dancing around parading themselves just for us to have a discussion tool. So what do we do? - Queen601 Stop getting it twisted. We understand this culture, it is ours, let it alone. We got this. - Queen601 You tell us.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-04-19T11:21:40-06:00

ID

69889

Comment

Why is it that one woman can demean all others? i don't think that a man that is an idiot demeans me as a man so why is it that the action of a few women demeans all other that 1) do not act that way 2) are smart enough to realise that while most men would watch, and yes even sleep with them they don't bring them home to mother 3) have no bearing on you life unless it is your sister in the video - even then it is not really your business we as adults must start taking responsibility for our actions or else we endanger our rights and freedoms (the same ones that people are aguing about right now) we have to realise that we are the ultimate gardians of our country. i believe that if you thibk that the goveernment is bad you change it the ones you put in may end up being bad but you neve change a bad government by leaving it in power it becomes worse

Author

Chaos Mage

Date

2005-11-05T18:52:48-06:00