Jackson Free Press

I was reading The Clarion-Ledger recently, and I came across something that made me laugh. Some parents in Florence are up in arms over their kids allegedly being harassed by police, in particular, by Sgt. Mike Crowdus. About 30 parents are outraged because Crowdus demanded wallets from their teen kids, used inappropriate language to them and arrested one, 16-year-old Glenn Wynn, during a traffic stop

I laughed because this time, the accusers appear to be mostly white and middle class. This time, there were articles, meetings and even an investigation by Florence City Attorney David Ringer. Florence Mayor Eddie Jones even made one of the most uninformed statements I have ever heard: "We do want to make sure he understands in a small city like Florence that you can't handle them like you would if they were in the inner city."

What is that supposed to mean? It's OK to harass kids, use inappropriate language and ask for wallets if the kids live in the "'hood"?

Where is the cavalry when kids are harassed outside of nearly every hip-hop concert in central Mississippi? For years, authorities here, in Canton and in Hazlehurst have been setting up roadblocks just outside of venues that have hosted hip-hop events. In some cases, concert-goers report being wrongfully harassed. Concerts at the Multiplex in Canton have failed because motorists fear getting stopped.

And it's not just roadblocks. "Inner city kids" or "the hip-hop generation" are constantly stopped because of where they live or the establishment they choose to frequent. Point is, these instances never make the news. It's not right to harass anyone—white or black. But traditionally, rap is seen as a "black" thing. The "inner city" has been traditionally known as a place where "black" people live. So, I can only take from the mayor's statement that it's OK to harass "black" kids because surely they deserve it!

Why am I so adamant? Because I don't see roadblocks set up outside the Mississippi Coliseum after rock concerts. Young whites aren't routinely stopped after leaving Headliners. But one thing is for sure: If they ever start, I'm sure we'll hear about it on the news.

Kamikaze is a Jackson-based rap artist and a former journalist. He joins the JFP this issue as a regular columnist. Look for his column every other issue.

Previous Comments

ID

69695

Comment

This is freakin' hilarious. In a tragic sort of a way.

Author

kate

Date

2005-02-23T16:36:25-06:00

ID

69696

Comment

Kamikaze has an excellent point, I believe. The double standards are amazing. Reminds me of the Northeast Jackson family who are suing the city because their daughter was busted for violating the city's curfew. They may well be right (and I tend to agree with them) -- but because she's a nice, white girl. Because these kinds of punitive policies and harassment are bad for *all* kids. If the parents would stand up and say that, it would be much more credible. Instead, we get thos Florence mayor showing his colors, so to speak. Boo, hiss.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-02-23T17:19:24-06:00

ID

69697

Comment

Hilarious how exactly??? Funny like...its sad that this is still happening in 2005 funny???or hilarious in "these black folks need to stop complaining" mode....the writer has an excellent point, as a professional African-American male its frustrating that this state still perpetuates this face. As an older gentleman who does listen to some rap...it's clear in some of my dealings that young black youth get a raw deal when they try to congregate to do their thing.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-02-25T10:17:39-06:00

ID

69698

Comment

Trusip, read my whole post, lengthy though it was. Tragic is how it's hilarious. I laughed, I believe, for the same reason that Kamikaze laughed (as he says in his first sentence). That it's so stupid and tragic and screwed up that this hits the paper when it's white kids, when this happens *all the time* to people of other races. It's also funny because of some of the other threads on the boards about how Jackson needs to reduce crime NOW, and we need to get tough on crime and so forth and so on. And then we get tough on a white kid, and suddenly it's the wrong thing to do, because apparently being 'tough on crime' is just fine when it's black kids but not on white. Funny, because otherwise it makes me too depressed to move. I think Kamikaze's got a great point, and I like the way he wrote the essay, and I'm really looking forward to reading more of his material.

Author

kate

Date

2005-02-25T11:04:17-06:00

ID

69699

Comment

Ain't life grand?

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-02-25T13:23:18-06:00

ID

69700

Comment

thanks for clearing that up for me kate. I agree totally!!!!

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-01T09:52:18-06:00

ID

69701

Comment

I am more than excited to read this article. I think it is a magnificent way to introduce the none rap listening community to artists like Kamikaze who are about (as the member stated above) "more than jewelry and rims". It is unfortunate that we are still having to deal with instances such as this one in this state now-a-days. However, it is a harsh reality and I am just happy that someone positive and articulate finally has the where-with-all to inform the masses about this type of blatant discrimination. It is not funny to me at all, not even in a pathetic way. I have a son! As a single, black female raising a son in this state, I am terrified of the world he has to face. I am terrified of the obstacles stacked against him just because he is of dark complection and because of his gender. This is completely unacceptable. Black people are getting tired. We've been tired. The difference now is that we are more capable, more knowledgeable and more willing to make things change. Congratulations to Kamikaze for his intelligence and his guts. I too, am looking forward to reading more of him articles. Way to go JFP on picking him up. ONLY YOU CAN!

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-03-08T16:33:46-06:00

ID

69702

Comment

Thanks, Queens, for the great comments. I, too, do not believe it's right the way that young blacks, and especilly young black men, are profiled. I am not black, as you probably know, but believe that this is a problem for all to face together. We should ALL be tired of it. And I think we can all be more knowledgeable and capable together, regardless of race, and willing to make things change. Your problem is my problem. Please stick around the JFP site; I think you will discover how the diverse community that cares about progressive change in Mississippi is growing every day. And I agree about Kamikaze; we are thrilled to have his voice, and to not talk about hip-hop, although he can talk about that, too. But to talk about the realities faced daily by young blacks in the city, state and U.S. He won't be in the issue out tomorrow (a deadline mix-up), but his next column is in and ready to go in the March 17 issue, so please keep an eye out and tell your friends. After that, he should appear regularly every two weeks. Good luck to you and your son. And don't be afraid. You're not alone, girlfriend!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-08T19:53:18-06:00

ID

69703

Comment

Thanks for that post. I know that their are people who are non-black that can see the racism and discrimination just as we do. I know that all white people are not racist (and so it goes for blacks too). It's just that I wonder can anyone who is not raised by a black family can really understand. Can you really fathom what it is like to not be treated equally because of something as simple and small as the color of your skin. And how do you as a caucasian feel being plagued as being a racist or not accepting black people just because of your skin color? We are so not where we need to be as a people, as a nation. And I dont believe we will ever get there unless people begin to acknowledge number one that this still exists and number two admit how you feel. I can admit that I am not convinenced wholeheartedly the white people can look at me and not think that I am "ignorant" (the n word). And I can admit that I don't have many white friends. I can admit that I don't trust white people fully. What are you willing to admit? Are you willing to admit that you are ashamed of the way we are treated by your people? Are you ashamed? Or did that happen so long ago that it doesn't concern you? I am one of those people who live in a world where I have contact with white people all the time. Some of my people never come in contact with whites unless they come into their community to get served in some way, but that is not contact, that's convinence. I am concerned that we won't get pass this obstacle until we learn to trust each other. I know this is not what the article was about, but ladd took me here and since you are willing to discuss this, I thought I'd take advantage and take the convo a little further. I don't consider myself to be a racist. I love my race, but I don't hate another race. I do, however, find that I am overly cautious when it comes to caucasians. And I can say that I always feel like I have to be ready for when I am back stabbed, or treated inferior, or called out of my name by one. This is a problem. This is an issue in this country that needs just as much attention as being able to vote over seas. Thanks again Donna.

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-03-14T12:09:31-06:00

ID

69704

Comment

'"We do want to make sure he understands in a small city like Florence that you can't handle them like you would if they were in the inner city.î I admit what I'm about to say is a bit uncalled for, but...as a member of the white middle class, I sometimes have fantasies about some spoiled Madison and Rankin Co. kids getting treated like this - especially the "stud dog" types who think they can do whatever the hell they want. . Ok, that's mean of me to fantasize about -- but nobody's perfect :P

Author

Philip

Date

2005-03-14T13:40:58-06:00

ID

69705

Comment

White kids (as well as black kids) pour millions of dollars into the pockets of hip-hop artists and producers. So I would suggest that the roadblocks, etc. that law enforcement have set up at or near hip-hop concerts are not done because the artists and/or fans are black, but rather because of the negative aspects of hip-hop and its culture, as outlined by the JFP in this article: http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/comments.php?id=5269_0_7_0_C Also, my comments after reading that article: Rapper 50 Cent's life imitates his "art:" one member of his entourage apparently shoots another during a live radio interview that was, ironically enough, promoting 50 Cent's new album entitled "The Massacre." http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/030150cent01-ON.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Similar shooting incident involving rapper Lil' Kim (and her alleged perjury) detailed in this article: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=7788678

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-14T15:26:56-06:00

ID

69706

Comment

Buck, the JFP never said all rappers are criminals, or should be treated like criminals. Or kids who listen to hip-hop music. I mean, young white "rednecks" killed both James Byrd in Texas and Matthew Shepard in Wyoming -- but that doesn't mean that all young whites should be targeted or disparanged. That would be some very bad logic ... or prejudice, plain and simple. And Philip, in a way, what you're fantasizing about did happen. The family of the young white girl in North Jackson who was stopped by Jackson police for violating curfew is suing the city for millions of dollars. Now, I don't believe in youth curfews and do not believe she should have been stopped in the first place -- but the point is that many of the same people wouldn't mind if the rights of young blacks are vioalated all over the place without probable cause because they're black and, therefore, some bigoted people would assume that they are therefore troublemakers. This just isn't American to assume that someone is guilty before being proven innocent because of the way they look or where they live. It's unacceptable. The Florence mayor should issue a formal apology to the young people of Jackson.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-14T16:30:02-06:00

ID

69707

Comment

Queen, thanks for speaking up. There is no way a white person can really fathom what it is like to be not treated equally because of something as simple and small as the color of your skin, but with the help of people like you, we can get a lot closer to walking in your shoes, and understanding better. Thank you for saying what so many people don't have the courage to say. And as for me, yes, I am ashamed of the way so many white people treat blacks and/or other minorities. Things are so much better than they were when I was young, but sometimes I'm disappointed to see how far we have yet to go. It's happening, thougb, just slower than I had originally imagined. Tell ya what, a lot of us are going to make it to the other side of this problem, and anybody who doesn't like it can live in the past and we can ignore them.

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-03-14T20:09:15-06:00

ID

69708

Comment

Queen, I should have responded to you as well. I'm on press deadline here and just grazing the site now and then. Anyway, I really appreciate your posting, and I graciously accept your thanks. We will continue to talk about these issues, no matter what anyone says about it. I had a (white) guy in Jackson ask me once, "Why does it always have to be about race?" To which, I responded: "Why can't it never be?" He didn't quite know what to say back. Of course, no white person can understand how it is to be treated differently every day due to your skin color. But good people know how to feel empathy and always strive to feel other people's pain. And there are a lot of good people out there of all races. They don't always know what your pain is, so you need to tell your stories -- which you did above. Thank you. And keep the faith.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-14T20:21:28-06:00

ID

69709

Comment

Again, it is wonderful to know that people are willing to deal with this issue. It's time to stop making excuses. The man above mentioned 50 cent and his entorage, you have a good point. Granted hiphop has associations with violence and crime, but does that not also apply to rock music -- just a couple of months ago a dude was killed at a 97% caucasian rock event. Let me express this there are bad and good people in every race. Don't put all black artist in the category with 50 cent or Tupac or Biggie. You don't see us all putting you in the category of Jeffery Dumar or the priests that molleste the young boys in the Catholic churches. The issue will only be corrected with us. We have to teach our children better than we were taught. I was taught to not trust white people. But that's because my parents were marching down the streets of jackson in protest, they were sprayed with water hoses, they were schooled in shacks they had to walk to every day and go to that same shack for church on Sunday. Why would they trust white people after being treated that way. So of course to protect their young, they taught us to stay as far away from whites as possible. Don't trust them, they all think we are dirt. But now, in light of people like Donna and people like Bill Clinton and others, who have made it quite clear that you are no better than me because you are of a fairer complection, we stand at a point where we can grab a hold of this problem by teaching our children to love all that love you. I can tell you getting to the other side of this problem will not be an easy effort but it is one that we must conquer in order to know what it feels like to live in a nation of people who are Americans, not African Americans, not Latino Americans, not Caucasian Americans, but AMERICANS... Peace

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-03-15T08:53:45-06:00

ID

69710

Comment

Again, it is wonderful to know that people are willing to deal with this issue. It's time to stop making excuses. The man above mentioned 50 cent and his entorage, you have a good point. Granted hiphop has associations with violence and crime, but does that not also apply to rock music -- just a couple of months ago a dude was killed at a 97% caucasian rock event. Let me express this there are bad and good people in every race. Don't put all black artist in the category with 50 cent or Tupac or Biggie. You don't see us all putting you in the category of Jeffery Dumar or the priests that molleste the young boys in the Catholic churches. The issue will only be corrected with us. We have to teach our children better than we were taught. I was taught to not trust white people. But that's because my parents were marching down the streets of jackson in protest, they were sprayed with water hoses, they were schooled in shacks they had to walk to every day and go to that same shack for church on Sunday. Why would they trust white people after being treated that way. So of course to protect their young, they taught us to stay as far away from whites as possible. Don't trust them, they all think we are dirt. But now, in light of people like Donna and people like Bill Clinton and others, who have made it quite clear that you are no better than me because you are of a fairer complection, we stand at a point where we can grab a hold of this problem by teaching our children to love all that love you. I can tell you getting to the other side of this problem will not be an easy effort but it is one that we must conquer in order to know what it feels like to live in a nation of people who are Americans, not African Americans, not Latino Americans, not Caucasian Americans, but AMERICANS... Peace

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-03-15T08:53:50-06:00

ID

69711

Comment

LADD: "Buck, the JFP never said all rappers are criminals, or should be treated like criminals. Or kids who listen to hip-hop music. I mean, young white "rednecks" killed both James Byrd in Texas and Matthew Shepard in Wyoming -- but that doesn't mean that all young whites should be targeted or disparanged. That would be some very bad logic ... or prejudice, plain and simple." I never said that all rappers (or kids who listen to hip-hop) are criminals. I was pointing out the unfortunate fact that several of the most popular figures in hip-hop have been involved in public incidents involving violence, drug use and/or distribution and other illegal activities. It cannot be said that "artists" like 50 Cent, Lil Kim, P Diddy, Tupac and Bigg E Small (spelling?) are on the fringe of the hip-hop industry. They are (or were) industry leaders; they have made many tens of millions of dollars selling their brand of glorification of violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny. And as stated above, they and others like them have taken it a step further by involving these inadmirable activities in their public (and, presumably, private) lives. That being said, it is not at all surprising when people like Mayor Jones have a negative perception of "inner city" kids. Is there any doubt where Mr. Jones got his negative perception of these kids? Probably from watching MTV! In light of the millions of dollars' worth of "artistic material" sold by the likes of of 50 Cent and Lil Kim which is consumed by kids (black and white) who, tragically, imitate the ideas propounded in hip-hop lyrics , is it surprising that this public official has a negative perception of "inner city" kids? It would be much more productive, in my opinion, to address the negative aspects of hip-hop music and/or culture rather than to criticize the fact that Mayor Jones has a negative perception of "inner city" kids. I have a negative perception of the "artists" listed above; do you think that makes me ill-informed or prejudiced?

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-16T11:13:39-06:00

ID

69712

Comment

It would be much more productive, in my opinion, to address the negative aspects of hip-hop music and/or culture rather than to criticize the fact that Mayor Jones has a negative perception of "inner city" kids. Nope. It doesn't have to be either-or. I can write and talk about the negative aspects of hip-hop, at the SAME TIME that I criticize the mayor of Florence for an extremely bigoted and offensive generalization about kids who live in my city. We need to do both -- both are part of the problem. After all, a lot of "offensive" rap is done due to police profiling and brutality. It's disingenuous to go after one and not the other if you truly care about societal problems. I have a negative perception of the "artists" listed above; do you think that makes me ill-informed or prejudiced? Well, that depends. If you have negative perception of all hip-hop artists and are trying to build a case that the generalizations of the mayor about "inner-city" kids are justified because some rappers are "bad," based on the actions of some of them, then yes I would say that you are ill-informed and/or prejudiced. (And that's a major logical fallacy.) That impression would be bolstered if you don't apply the same standards to other types of music or groups of people who also participate in violent activity, as I pointed out with the Byrd example. That is, it would make as much sense to lambaste all country music artists/listeners for "causing" adultery or racist violence or all hard rock/metal/etc., for "causing" anti-gay violence, and so on. It's just not logical, and arguments like that certainly are ill-informed at best, and prejudiced at worst.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-16T12:12:00-06:00

ID

69713

Comment

Good points buck. But it's not our fault that Mayor Jones is an ignorant hillbilly with no concience when he speaks, that's his fault. You, on the other hand decided to research things before you opened your face, good job*applauds*. More whites in Mississippi should follow suite before allowing their poisonous tongues to regurgitate blatant generalizations about "inner city" kids. I mean, it's not fair for me to call all white kids who live in the sticks, in-bred heathens, is it? So let's hope the Mayor learns something from this before he dies with such a cold heart.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-16T12:16:12-06:00

ID

69714

Comment

As a hip hop fan and a fan of Tupac, Biggie, DMX, C-Murder, Shine, and others who fall into the category of glorifying violence, allow me to say that I concur with Mayor Jones in his effort to keep this type of demographic at a controllable level. But the problem as I see it is as a public official you must be held accountable for tact and professionalism. Has his statement been made in an effort to discontinue this criminal behavior, that would be one thing. But it seems to me that his target was not the artists themselves but the consumers of the music. This is a problem for me. It is true that some rappers (and rockers and pop stars, etc...) don't learn how to separate themselves from the lifestyle they learned in the hood, after they have gotten papered up (for those of you who are hip hop lengo challenged -- that means rich). However, it can not be hard for you to fathom that it is not just hip hop artists or listeners who have this problem. It's not just black folk either. The problem is, hip hop is so prevelant in today's society that the powers that be deem it to be a industry that they can not control. Young black and white people are listening to hip hop. They are all at the point where they can be influenced by what the rapper says. So what, you gonna boycott hip hop. If you do that then you gone have to boycott other popular celebrities to and they are not all hip hop artists. I have the same concerns that non hip hop listers have when it comes to glorified violence, but what can you do. It sells. It's unfortunate, but it does. This country thrives on violence. What you gone do boycott Will Smith, Bruce Willis, etc..? Those are characters in a movie...that being so, most rappers are just characters as well. Stop blaming them because you can't control your children and what they listen to. Stop making them role models. Parents should be the ones modeling roles of respect for their children. I'm babbling so I'll go now, so much to say, so little time.

Author

Queen601

Date

2005-03-16T13:46:46-06:00

ID

69715

Comment

LADD: "Well, that depends. If you have negative perception of all hip-hop artists and are trying to build a case that the generalizations of the mayor about "inner-city" kids are justified because some rappers are "bad," based on the actions of some of them, then yes I would say that you are ill-informed and/or prejudiced. (And that's a major logical fallacy.)" Well, you can consider me ill-informed or prejudiced if you like, but I think it is reasonable to associate the trappings of "hip-hop culture" with "inner city kids," as those kids, broadly defined, comprise the target market for hip-hop producers and artists. Indeed, many of the top-selling hip-hop artists proudly proclaim themselvs as being from the ghetto: in other words, they are themselves grown-up (physically, anyway) "inner city kids." And some of them have used this fact to "justify" the content of their material, in that they are merely "reporting" what happens in "the hood." Of course, many suburban (read: "cracker") kids buy hip-hop music as well. As for comparing the negative aspects of the "gangsta rap" variety of hip-hop music to those of other genres: I reject the notion that any other genre of music displays the glorification of violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny that "gangsta rap" does. Just for two noted examples, "Life ain't nuthin but bitches and money" and "He fucked the fleas off the bitch, shook the ticks off his dick" are examples of lyrics contained in the material of two multi-platinum hip-hop albums. Did these wonderful lyrics somehow result from "police brutality?" I don't think so. Not that the extreme vulgarity of this genre of music is subject to any real debate, of course. . . Instead of lambasting Mayor Jones as a "hillbilly," why not consider why this individual has a negative perception of "inner city kids?" You seem eager to lambast this perceived slight on his part while granting carte blanche to "gangsta rap" artists to peddle their filth to youth of all races. Who does this help? It lines the pockets of the "artists" and producers while leaving kids with the idea that the activities outlined in the music is somehow "cool" or admirable. And I have a negative perception of anyone of any color who thinks that those things are admirable. On a related note, Lil Kim is convicted of perjury.

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-17T18:18:38-06:00

ID

69716

Comment

Clearly, Buck, the mayor of Florence has a negative perception of a vast stereotype of "inner-city kids" for the same reason that you or anyone else might: he is blinded by his prejudice of a certain type of young person and a certain type of music. You bring up imporant points about rap, as I have done in a recent editor's note and Adrienne did in a cover story. However, you then leap in logic, as I assume that mayor has done, to attributing those characteristics to all hip-hop and all inner-city kids. What's that logical fallacy called when someone attributes individual chacteristics to the whole? Meantime, you seem to want to take no responsibility for other violence committed and glorified by other groups of young people throughout our history. I'll be frank: Your postings on here indiciate that you are very quick to lambaste entire groups for problems faced by members of those groups -- especially when they're black. I'm not saying you're bigoted, but your posts indicate a desire to really go after black people (e.g. Kenneth Stokes) with a fervor that you don't show for holding other groups accountable. And that doesn't help anything. Now, having a discussion about the failings of hip-hop while NOT trying to justify idiotic statements by a mayor about "inner-city" kids would make sense and would show a willingness to deal with nuance. But you seem really either-or when it comes to these types of issues. Your perorgative and pleasing to a certain choir, but not convincing.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-17T18:35:38-06:00

ID

69717

Comment

I reject the notion that any other genre of music displays the glorification of violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny that "gangsta rap" does. I'll see your shocking lyrics, and raise you a few, Buck. While we're making these kinds of generalizations, let's not forget to tie all of country music and everyone who listens to it to David Allan Coe's lyrics, for instance. After all, I'm sure at least one or two "rednecks" out looking for some trouble to get into might be listening to his Underground Album, and perhaps the song "N*gger F*cker." Lyrics here. There's also his (infamous)"F*ck Anita Bryant,", "Damn, I Wish...", "C*m Stains on My Pillow" and other lovely country & western tunes. And how about the "Johnny Rebel" classic album? Now, after posting that, I must admit that (a) I like country music and (b) I like some other David Alan Coe songs. And even though I know that many violent country fans over the years, like members of the KKK, were big fans of country music, I do not believe one can make vast sweeping generalizations about any particular country fan based on these types of lyrics. (And they're not the only ones out there.) It would be an unfair, and prejudiced, leap in logic. (And I apologize to any reader that those lyrics offend. I believe they make an important point, however; thus, the reason I linked to them.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-17T18:56:42-06:00

ID

69718

Comment

Last point: I believe these lyrics, many of which are from the 1960s, are representative of "outlaw country" -- which is glorified among many country fans just as much as "gangsta rap" is among certain fans of hip-hop. Thus, I reject your notion, Buck, that hip-hop is the most shocking genre of music that has ever existed. Perhaps it would make sense to move beyond the either-or rhetoric. It reminds me of when Jim Giles posts a link to a murder of a white person by a black person to, seemingly, prove that black people are violent horrible. Violent people are violent and horrible. Violent music is violent and horrible. No matter who makes it. And it doesn't mean that (a) all kids in the inner city or (b) everybody who lives in the country and drives a pick-up truck should be treated like criminals. Oh, and I believe David Alan Coe also killed someone if I'm not mistaken.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-17T19:20:41-06:00

ID

69719

Comment

LADD: "Clearly, Buck, the mayor of Florence has a negative perception of a vast stereotype of "inner-city kids" for the same reason that you or anyone else might: he is blinded by his prejudice of a certain type of young person and a certain type of music." Unless you have had this conversation with the Mayor of Florence, your speculation regarding his being "blinded by prejudice" is only that: speculation. I am not willing to make that speculation; I don't know what his life experiences may have been that resulted in his making the comment listed above. I, personally, do not attribute the negative aspects of hip-hop to all hip-hop artists nor to all inner city kids. However, I can see how others may do that. My point is not that all hip-hop is evil or that all inner city kids are bad, but that it would be in the best interests of all kids (and particularly those in innner cities) to refrain from consuming the variety of hip-hop that contains the vulgar and negative contents listed above. Of course, this is a job for parents, but as we have seen, many parents have failed and continue to fail to fulfill this important duty. I am in favor of holding all indivduals accountable for their actions, regardless of race, creed, color, gender, sexual orientation, et cetera. I don't know what you are referring to regarding "violence committed and glorified by other groups of young people throughout our history," but I am certainly equally as interested in doling out a fair share of responsibility to all individuals and/or groups who generate and/or profit from this sort of garbage. As stated above, however, in my opinion no other genre of popular culture blatantly promotes violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny like some hip-hop artists do. You are outraged by the Florence Mayor's comments; where is your outrage as a result of children being exposed to and influenced by these artists? It is the sort of thing that would cause, for example, a 14-year-old kid to discharge a firearm in the Metrocenter Mall, as happened recently. As for Kenneth Stokes: I don't know him, have never met him. My criticism of him is based on statements that he has made on the public record. Most public officials are smarter than him in that they generally do not regularly make asinine and racist comments on the public record. Any that do would receive the same sort of criticism from me, be they black, white, or otherwise. For the record, I have lambasted many white conservative figures (with great relish, I might add), Revs Falwell and Robertson being my favorite targets. Matter of fact, those two are about the only human being I can think of who even come close to making public comments as stupid as those of Kenneth Stokes. Speaking of asinine public statements, Chokwe Lumumba was disbarred today: http://clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050317/NEWS01/50317010

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-17T19:23:15-06:00

ID

69720

Comment

Buck, you have made plenty of speculation on here about the motives of entire groups of people, so don't lecture me about "speculation." Clearly, I am commenting on Mr. Mayor's comment about "inner-city" kids. He's a public official: If he didn't mean what he said, he should issue an apology or clarification. And I suspect you haven't exactly rung Stokes' phone off the hook, either, have you? Let me guess: Stokes' racism is crystal clear, but Jones' comments are open to misunderstanding. Also, I just saw that comment you made about me above: You seem eager to lambast this perceived slight on his part while granting carte blanche to "gangsta rap" artists to peddle their filth to youth of all races. Truly amazing, Buck. Once again, you demonstrate your tendency toward selective reading, showing why it is so difficult to have a conversation with you. *I* wrote an entire column about why I think violent and misogynistic lyrics are wrong, challenging my young black readers (of whom we have many) to reject this. That is not granting anyone "carte blanche." That is just an idiotic statement to make about me. *I* am willing to look at the nuance here, Buck, which you have shown no willingness to do when race enters the question. I am not willing to call for censorship of either David Allan Coe or a gangsta rapper, but I do believe the public should call for personal responsibility -- and stop buying harmful lyrics. I also believe we must call out public officials, such as that mayor, when they make such prejudicial statements against entire groups of young people. If they didn't mean it, they need to apologize. I don't want to get into another Stokes discussion. I will say, though, that I have found many of your comments here -- not all -- just as bad as those comments of Stokes that you refer to (although you've provided very few, if any, direct quotes from Stokes). That's my opinion, and you're not a public official. But you truly come at race-related issues from a particular standpoint. Thus, it's hard to take your points seriously on them. You show no ability (here at least) to see nuance on them. Your Metrocenter example, for instance. How many times have you worked that in (or was that someone else)? That's very Giles-ian as well. Meantime, you ignore the discharge of weapons in less black communities, or the irresponsibility of parents who give 14-year-olds guns in the first place. That is, you're clearly cherry-picking your examples, seemingly to make black folks look bad. But it doesn't work because you're obviously cherry-picking. And it's breathtaking that you find the lyrics you quote worse than the ones I linked to. That's very telling, Buck. Now, I must say I've been down this road with you before and it never goes anywhere. I've made my points, so I'll move on. Best.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-17T19:34:46-06:00

ID

69721

Comment

BTW, we agree on Falwell and Robertson. Egad.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-17T19:51:45-06:00

ID

69722

Comment

Ms. Ladd: I would be interested to hear which of my comments you find to be "just as bad" as those made by Stokes. And as I have repeated many times now (several of those repetitions made at your request), Stokes has made and continues to make nakedly racist statements on the public record and in his capacity as an elected official of the City of Jackson. I have made no comments here or elsewhere that are similar to the garbage spewed by Stokes on a regular basis. As a review, here are some examlpes (yet again) of Stokes' racism (taken from this thread http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/comments.php?id=P3705_0_4_0_C): * Several years ago, Stokes publicly stated he opposed the annexation of Byram because the influx of white residents would "dilute black voting strength". He said "Jackson needs a black mayor." * He regularly refers to white people who disagree with him as "racists" and African-Americans who disagree with him as "Uncle Toms." * He invited Imari Obadele to a city council meeting to speak. Obadele is a member of the Republic of New Africa, a separatist group that sought to establish its own nation in the South. Obadele was convicted in connection to the murder of Jackson Police Lt. Bill Skinner and apparently expresses no remorse for the killing. * He was quoted on the radio as saying, "We got enough folks there kissing white folks' behinds. They go home with a mouthful of booty. " * Another quote: "They say the white folks are giving money to everybody but a three-legged dog to run against me. We're going to whip them all." As a second review, here is Mayor Jones' quote that you take such offense to: "We do want to make sure he understands in a small city like Florence that you can't handle them like you would if they were in the inner city.î Thus your "guess" is correct: Stokes' racism is crystal clear, while Jones' comment is inded subject to interpretation. You seem to place a high value on the idea of "seeing nuance" on a given issue. That may be of value in some (mostly academic)discussions; however, in dealing with Stokes and his asinine public assertions, I see no nuance. Do you? By all means, explain it to me. Justice may be blind, but your journalistic product is not. As for David Allan Coe: I am familiar with his album. The appropriately-titled "Underground Album." how many grammys did he win for it? Did it go platinum? No? Gold? No? How about aluminum. Matter of fact, has it ever been sold through any record label? Could it be bought at any record store? No and no. It was an album that was sold at his concerts during the 60's and 70's. Moreover, the majority of the songs on that album were vaguely pornographic rather than being explicitly racist, the one you listed above being a noted excpetion. Any other examples of country music gone bad? "Outlaw Country" was a country music movement in the 70s that included Hank Williams Jr., Waylon Jennings, and Willie Nelson, among others. The qualities of these artists and their music involved no racist themes like that displayed on Coe's "Underground Album." By contrast, hip-hop stars like Snoop Dog, 50 Cent, Eminem, and Lil Kim are the multi-millionaire top sellers of their genre. They are and have been the best and biggest sellers of the modern hip-hop era. And their "art" promotes and glorifies violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny. As stated above, they have justified peddling this filth by stating that they themselves are themselves the grown-up "inner city kids" that Mayor Jones (implicitly) insulted by his comment. Who is hurt by this hip-hop music? Not me! The kids who consume this product are inevitably hurt by being influenced by this utter garbage. And then, Ladd, you indignantly lambast Mayor Jones for indirectly referencing his negative perception of "inner city" kids. As long as the negative aspects of hip-hop music (cited above) are associated with inner-city youth, people will have negative perception of those kids. Whose fault is that? The people who are turned off by violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny, or the hip-hop artists and record executives who produce and market this garbage to kids, including those in inner cities? On a related note, Rev. Al Sharpton agrees with me ( a sure sign of the apocalypse): http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/24/sharpton.fcc.ap/index.html Another related note: Another shooting at a rap concert, this time in friendly, safe, no-right-to-bear-arms London, England: http://www.ugo.com/channels/music/article.asp?articleID=14209

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-24T23:25:44-06:00

ID

69723

Comment

Ms. Ladd: I would be interested to hear which of my comments you find to be "just as bad" as those made by Stokes. And as I have repeated many times now (several of those repetitions made at your request), Stokes has made and continues to make nakedly racist statements on the public record and in his capacity as an elected official of the City of Jackson. I have made no comments here or elsewhere that are similar to the garbage spewed by Stokes on a regular basis. As a review, here are some examples (yet again) of Stokes' racism (taken from this thread http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/comments.php?id=P3705_0_4_0_C): * Several years ago, Stokes publicly stated he opposed the annexation of Byram because the influx of white residents would "dilute black voting strength". He said "Jackson needs a black mayor." * He regularly refers to white people who disagree with him as "racists" and African-Americans who disagree with him as "Uncle Toms." * He invited Imari Obadele to a city council meeting to speak. Obadele is a member of the Republic of New Africa, a separatist group that sought to establish its own nation in the South. Obadele was convicted in connection to the murder of Jackson Police Lt. Bill Skinner and apparently expresses no remorse for the killing. * He was quoted on the radio as saying, "We got enough folks there kissing white folks' behinds. They go home with a mouthful of booty. " * Another quote: "They say the white folks are giving money to everybody but a three-legged dog to run against me. We're going to whip them all." As a second review, here is Mayor Jones' quote that you take such offense to: "We do want to make sure he understands in a small city like Florence that you can't handle them like you would if they were in the inner city.î Thus your "guess" is correct: Stokes' racism is crystal clear, while Jones' comment is inded subject to interpretation. You seem to place a high value on the idea of "seeing nuance" on a given issue. That may be of value in some (mostly academic)discussions; however, in dealing with Stokes and his asinine public assertions, I see no nuance. Do you? By all means, explain it to me. Justice may be blind, but your journalistic product is not. As for David Allan Coe: I am familiar with his album. The appropriately-titled "Underground Album." How many grammys did he win for it? Did it go platinum? No? Gold? No? How about aluminum. Matter of fact, has it ever been sold through any record label? Could it be bought at any record store? No and no. It was an album that was sold at his concerts during the 60's and 70's. Moreover, the majority of the songs on that album were vaguely pornographic rather than being explicitly racist, the one you listed above being a noted excpetion. Any other examples of country music gone bad? "Outlaw Country" was a country music movement in the 70s that included Hank Williams Jr., Waylon Jennings, and Willie Nelson, among others. The qualities of these artists and their music involved no racist themes like that displayed on Coe's "Underground Album." By contrast, hip-hop stars like Snoop Dog, 50 Cent, Eminem, and Lil Kim are the multi-millionaire top sellers of their genre. They are and have been the best and biggest sellers of the modern hip-hop era. And their "art" promotes and glorifies violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny. As stated above, they have justified peddling this filth by stating that they themselves are the grown-up "inner city kids" that Mayor Jones (implicitly) insulted by his comment. Who is hurt by this hip-hop music? Not me! The kids who consume this product are inevitably hurt by being influenced by this utter garbage. And then, Ladd, you indignantly lambast Mayor Jones for indirectly referencing his negative perception of "inner city" kids. As long as the negative aspects of hip-hop music (cited above) are associated with inner-city youth, people will have negative perception of those kids. Whose fault is that? The people who are turned off by violence, drug use, materialism, and blatant misogyny, or the hip-hop artists and record executives who produce and market this garbage to kids, including those in inner cities? On a related note, Rev. Al Sharpton agrees with me (a sure sign of the apocalypse): http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/24/sharpton.fcc.ap/index.html Another related note: Another shooting at a rap concert, this time in friendly, safe, no-right-to-bear-arms London, England: http://www.ugo.com/channels/music/article.asp?articleID=14209

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-24T23:28:10-06:00

ID

69724

Comment

Sorry for the double post. . whoops.

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-24T23:36:38-06:00

ID

69725

Comment

Whoa fella..[ad hominem snipped by editor] ... You obviously scan the web to find isolated incidentst that support your O'Reilly like thinking lemme clear up some of those STOKESISMS if i may...An influx of white voters would dilute black voting power. Don't know about you but we just got the right to vote in the 60's. In case youo havent noticed Jackson is almost 70% black. We need a mayor that can reflect that stat. OF COURSE WE NEED A BLACK MAYOR...where are we Capetown, Soweto??? Thats not racist...thats fact!!!!! ...the white people who disagree with Stokes usually ARE racists and the blacks who do usually ARE uncle toms. He may have missed a few times but only a few!!!! ...Obedele was no where near the house where the cop was killed and had nothing to do with it. He didnt pull the trigger and didnt tell the guy that did it to pull the trigger either. I repeat...HE WASNT THERE...Why apologize for something you didnt do!!!In fact THEY came looking for HIM!!! The police initiated the confrontation. REsearch brother...ask about the orignal warrant. They were goin to the house in the first place for bogus reasons just so they could harass thosee people. Cmon man...they arrived at the crack of dawn with guns blazin???For what??? Listen, im an African American and I know redneck when I hear it. mayor jones is just that. He let his redneckspeak come out before he had a chance to think about what he was sayin. Regardless of the content of any song, that doesnt give you the right to purposely single out any race of people. Thats an excuse to let the redneck out...Lets blame the music then we can do what we REALLY want to do anyway...harass these BLACKS!!!!! You're a funny guy buck.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-25T10:20:35-06:00

ID

69726

Comment

Buck, you're trying to go down the same road, and pointing to the same old stuff we've already discussed elsewhere on the site. I've addressed every one of those Stokes quotes (most of which are partial and out of context, we'll note for the record) elsewhere on the site. I'll only reiterate your first one here due to short time: You think Stokes' concern with "black voting strength" is racist. That's an opinion, although not one I agree with. However, let me see you get just as outraged at the Republican gerrymandering and redistricting coups of late to ensure "white voting strength." Come on, Buck, be consistent, and at least open enough to consider what someone else says when it comes to race issues. You have blinders on here, and your comments show it. Otherwise, I'm tired of going down this road with you. Your comments speak for themselves, and sadly I don't think you know it. Now, trusip, please don't call someone a "racist in denial," even if you think that's what their comments show. That is exactly what Buck has done repeatedly about Stokes and others, and it doesn't help his or your arguments. However, it's not ad hominem to point out why you think their comments are racist, and then discuss them, which you are also doing. Just refrain from the name-calling, please. Thanks all.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-25T10:33:09-06:00

ID

69727

Comment

Ms. Ladd: Gerrymandering is not solely a white or republican thing. . . all types of voting districts all over the country resemble Rorschach tests more than anything as a result of districts being divied up along racial and/or ethnic lines. Is this a good thing? Probably not. Is it a reality of political life? Undoubtedly it is. For example, we do not have to speculate on how Stokes would feel about Ward 3 being re-drawn to include more white people in that district. . . the gerrymandering issue is a 2-way street. My comments definitely speak for themselves, I do know it! You say that as if it's a bad thing. As stated above, I'd be interested to hear which of my comments you find so offensive, or which are "just as bad" as those made by Stokes. Interestingly, you have stated that you do not find Stokes' comments to be bad or offensive in the first place. . . so which is it? Trusip: "In case youo havent noticed Jackson is almost 70% black. We need a mayor that can reflect that stat. OF COURSE WE NEED A BLACK MAYOR...where are we Capetown, Soweto??? Thats not racist...thats fact!!!!!" Let's start at the beginning, shall we? (from dictionary.com): Main Entry: fact Function: noun Etymology: Latin factum deed, real happening, something done, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere to do, make 1 : something that has actual existence : a matter of objective reality 2 : any of the circumstances of a case that exist or are alleged to exist in reality : a thing whose actual occurrence or existence is to be determined by the evidence presented at trial ósee also finding of fact at FINDING, JUDICIAL NOTICE question of fact at QUESTION, TRIER OF FACT ócompare LAW, OPINION Now, I am not sure what you mean by your post above, but it is incorrect to call your statement that "WE NEED A BLACK MAYOR" a fact. As you can see from the definition above, that is clearly an opinion, not a fact. It is also, for your education, an openly prejudiced opinion. Which puts you in the wonderful company of Stokes. Who didn't bother to show up for the recent debate between the candidates for his Ward 3 post, incidentally. . . Trusip: "...the white people who disagree with Stokes usually ARE racists and the blacks who do usually ARE uncle toms. He may have missed a few times but only a few!!!!" You know, this is great. In your brief post, you manage to toss racially-based insults at black and white people at the same time. While you may be interested in playing name-calling games, I pretty much moved beyond that stage in kindergarten. As for the Obadele incident, there is a judicial process that exists for things like challenging the validity of arrest and/or search warrants. Which is why the members of the Republic of New Afrika should have used that judicial process instead of shooting a JPD cop to death. But then, would the judicial process have advanced their stated agenda of taking over the geographical area of the south to create a "New Afrika" sovereign nation? Is that question even worth asking, much less answering? No. As far as "blaming" hip=hop as an excuse to "harass these blacks," last I checked Eminem is white. Hip-hop and the negative qualities associated with it are not solely a black or white problem. Lastly, you could learn a lot from reading the exchanges that Ms. Ladd and I have had. We disagree on many issues, but our discussions remain civil . . . and do not involve name-calling or other childish gestures. It's not a terribly high standard, but it is one that you have yet to meet.

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-29T12:56:21-06:00

ID

69728

Comment

Johnny Cash shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die. Another time, he took a shot of cocaine and shot his woman down. Oh, wait... those were CHARACTERS in his songs. Was Johnny Cash a misogynistic violent thug? Gee, I don't know... I named one of my dogs after him, so I think you know where I stand. "All collective judgements are wrong. Only racists make them." (Elie Wiesel)

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2005-04-18T12:36:08-06:00