Jackson Free Press

I was lying in bed last week, thinking about the Edgar Ray Killen trial. My feelings on it are hard to sort out; I'm relieved, yet worried that too many people will treat it as an end rather than a beginning.

As I lay there, I remembered what Deborah Posey, a Philadelphia Coalition member, told me in the courtroom just after closing arguments. I asked her, a white woman from Neshoba County, why she joined the coalition to call for justice in the case. "I believe in prayer, and I've been praying for a long time for my city. I want to see my city heal and go forward," she said.

Remembering those words prompted me to say a prayer of my own. "Please, Lord, give me words to express what I feel about this case. Tell me what to say."

At that second, an image popped into my head. Then another. I remembered standing in the old president's house at Jackson State at the "Without Sanctuary" exhibit of lynching photos. I was again right in front of that photo of young black men, dead, piled on top of each other, all of their wrists tied to a wooden fence. That image symbolizes to me what my country had done to generations of young black males: the hopelessness, the inhumanity.

Then the next image. Earlier that night, on WJTV news, I had watched a 16-year-old boy bent over a car, handcuffed, TV cameras in his face, as our new mayor machine-gunned him with questions and statements. The boy was scared, stuttering, his eyes darting to the cameras that encircled him. His face was the new symbol of what my country is doing to young black men: the hopelessness, the inhumanity.

Suddenly, I was crying. I continued to pray. "Please help my state heal and go forward," I asked. At that moment, I also realized what the Edgar Ray Killen trial means to me. I groped in the dark for a notebook.

This trial was not about "closure" for Neshoba County, for Mississippi, for the South, for the country. It is one act of justice, too little, too late, but still welcome. It is up to us, each of us, to decide if that is all it is. Will it be a long-overdue footnote, half written? Or will it be a window to our future? Will Mississippians step through toward the light? If we do, we probably won't know until after we've done it because it will take so many small, seemingly insignificant steps to cross that threshold.

The journey forward starts with knowledge—an understanding of our history, overcoming the denial that the crimes of humanity were condoned, directly or by default, by nearly the entire populace of the state. "They got themselves killed," we still hear, from people who blame the victims.

Understanding is in the details—as I tell my writing students, you only express a universal truth by making it specific and personal to each reader. You show the pain of a father who believes he "allowed" a priest friend to sexually abuse his three boys. You describe a little black girl who was pushed away from a water fountain by a big, burly white man (an anecdote I heard a fifth-grader at Northwest Rankin so eloquently rivet her diverse classmates with). Or you show them that, with a slight twist of fate, it could be their son killed by a lynch mob or thrown onto a car hood and broadcast into thousands of living rooms with little thought to his rights or humanity.

Our past is not past. People who believe that our recent history should be buried—or at least the parts that make them fidget—are too often the same people who are still playing by familiar rules. Too often, the same people who spread overblown crime rhetoric about the city, and its children, and accuse blacks of "whining" about the past, are the same ones who have no interest in the conditions that have created much of the crime. It is up to us, today, to break the cycle.

In a way, I feel sorry for people who are blind to the past. Many of them (and not only white folks) spout the very same words about young, black "thugs" that were mailed to homes and businesses around the state by the Citizens Council in the 1960s. The same phrases. Clearly, too many in today's generations learned from the previous ones that they are superior to dangerous black men—and often refuse to acknowledge that scared boys need understanding, too. The result, while not as horrifying and violent over all than in the past, is still an attitude that young black men—and boys—are bad until they themselves prove otherwise. That's backward. And tragic.

We cannot scare hopefulness into young people. We must believe it into them. If you tell your children every day they will fail, they likely will. Imagine if an entire state, or country, does the same thing to its young people—and then turns around and blames them for the hopelessness we instill.

I truly can't imagine not being able to walk into a funeral home and say "I'm sorry" to someone who has suffered a great loss. Often we follow with, "Let me know if I can do anything." Likewise, I can't imagine seeing a community in pain, and mired in hopelessness that we—including elected officials, the media and everyday people—project onto them, and refusing to apologize for everything the state, and its residents (including many of our families), did to create the conditions they live in now. Worse, it is unconscionable if we do not band together to reverse the harm done by past generations, who were, in turn, passing down the same excuses that we hear today.

The Killen trial—and the history lesson it offers, and the uplifting evidence of evolving attitudes—is a symbol, a beacon if you will, telling us to search our consciences and face the prejudices passed down to us. We must get over our fear of young black males and join with them to help our city and our state, to break the self-loathing cycle too many of them—as well as the rest of us—suffer because we haven't faced our collective demons together. We must erase our blind spots. We must couple opportunity with punishment. We each owe it to ourselves, our children, our state, our God.

My prayer today: Let us step through this opening we've been presented, to have the courage to be better than our past, to unlearn the "lessons" of our ancestors. We must together build a state better than the one passed to us.

Previous Comments

ID

70207

Comment

This article has rendered me almost speechless. I was just that for several hours. Until now, I thought I had figured out and captured the depth and essence of Ms. Ladd. In all my readings of vast writers of various ethnicities, I have yet to read an article quite like this one. Look at what lovelessness, fatherlessness, hopelessness, carelessness, uneducation, poor education, miseducation, racism and white supremacy, et al, have done to the psychic and condition of the black male. "Love is greater than hate" as so eloquently stated and repeated by God, Jesus, Marvin Gaye, parents, teachers, preachers, sages prophets, disciples, Ladd, me and many, many more, ON MANY OCCASIONS. We (they) have little problems understanding this until we encounter the black situation generally, and the black male in particular. As I see it, the two main things the power structure has a great problem confronting, handling and reconciling are: the issue and plight of the black male, and our country's past (present) history of racism and imperiarlism. The situation of the black male is yet another longstanding and great issue that needs to be confronted with unabashed truth and responsibility, including the internal responsibility of trying to overcome great and uncalled for misery by dangerous, illegal and immoral means. I think it's time I share with everyone the greatest Rap song ever made. It's called "The Message." I hope it doesn't detract from Donna's great "Article of love." It shall come later.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-14T07:25:58-06:00

ID

70208

Comment

Very powerful article indeed, Donna I'm not glossing over a thing when I say this - but let's not forget those who have established interracial friendships and trust. There is definitely much work to be done, particularly stereotyping groups of young black males in hip-hop clothing (or whatever the newest "in" term is for it these days). Also, it's important to note that those whose hearts are in the right place regardless of how they may come off may be trapped in, as you call it, "naive nostalgia" (love that phrase, Donna). I see another aspect of "naive nostalgia" when you hear the phrase that the 50s were a time of perfect innocence for the American family, particularly among fervent Evangelicals [ cue the music-- "Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream...", or the theme music from "Happy Days", "Leave it to Beaver", "Father Knows Best" -- whatever]. Another thing to bring up is that (I was like this for a long time myself) quite a number of good-hearted people confuse their own personal attitudes (and those of their closest, likeminded friends) with the overall society's attitudes. That's another barrier to overcome. They think "I and my friends are treating "others" with as much dignity and respect as others, therefore I'm not part of the problem". I think a very effective way to overcome this is to softly ask them challenging questions and ask them for the evidence for their beliefs. For people like I describe, convincing them should be fairly easy (Note well I'm purposefully ignoring the belligerent narcissist types - I'm talking strictly about teh well-meaning but naive types, which I think would outnumber the hard-core racists)

Author

Philip

Date

2005-07-14T08:03:43-06:00

ID

70209

Comment

"A child was born with no state of mind, blind to the ways of mankind, God is smiling on you but he's frowning too, cause only God knows what you go through, you grow in the ghetto, living second rate, and your eyes will sing a sad song of deep hate, the places you play and where you stay, look like one great big alley way, you'll admire all the number book takers, dogpitchers, pushers and the big money makers, driving big cars, spending twenties and tens, and you want to grow up to be just like them, smugglers, sramblers, burglars, gamblers, pickpockets, peddlers, and even pan-handlers. You say I'm cool, I'm no fool, but you wind up dropping out of High School, now you're unemployed, all null "n" void, walking around like you're pretty boy Floyd, turned stick-up kid, look what you done did, got sent up for an eight year bid. Now your manhood is took and you're a may tag, spend two years as an undercover ____, being used and abused, and served like hell, until one day you was found hung dead in in a cell. It was plain to see that your life was lost, you was cold and your body swung back and forth, but now your eyes sing the sad, sad song of how you lived so fast and died so young. Don't push me, cause I'm close to the edge, I'm trying not to lose my head. It's like a jungle sometimes, it make me wonder how I keep from going under. The above are excerpts or lyrics from "The Message" written by Fletcher, Robinson, Chase, and Glover.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-14T08:08:03-06:00

ID

70210

Comment

One more time and I'm out. "My son said daddy I don't wanna go to school, cause the teacher's a jerk, he must think I'm a fool, and all the kids smoke reefer, I think it'd be cheaper if i just got a job and learned to be a street sweeper. I dance to the beat, shuffle my feet, wear a shirt and tie and run with the creeps, cause it's all about MONEY, ain't a damn thing funny, you got to have a CON in this land of milk and honey. I can't walk through the park, cause it's crazy after dark, keep my hand on the gun, cause they got me on the run. I feel like an outlaw, broke my last jaw, hear them say you want some more, living on a seesaw. Don't push me, cause I'm clost to the edge, I'm trying not to lose my head. It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from going under. Broken glass everyhere, people pissing on the stairs, you know they just don't care, I can't take the smell, I can't take the noise. Rats in the front room, roaches in the back, junkies in the alley with baseball bats. I tried to ger away, but I couldn't get far, cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car."

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-14T08:45:35-06:00

ID

70211

Comment

Thanks, Ray, for posting those lyrics. Very powerful.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-07-14T10:23:12-06:00

ID

70212

Comment

I must add that only my sister (Donna) from an abutting county of descent could write this article. I'm from Winston County - in my opinion, a place far worse than Neshoba County was or is. We had Sheriffs, Deputies and other so-called police officers just as abusive and inclined to arbitrary and capriciously murder innocent folks as Lawrence Rainey and Cecil Price. Seeing this as a child is what made me want to be a lawyer in the first place. On the occasions that I clearly recognize that I have a racist and abusive police officers on cross examination, I make it a point to show them that a new day has arisen, and that during this phase of the trial, there is a new Sheriff in town and his name is Ray Carter. Yes, Dick Molphus and Mark Duncan are o.k., but they ain't Donna Ladd. I still love you Donna although you had to hit me over the head with a big stick a couple of weeks ago. The swelling is slowly subsiding. Smiling.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-14T10:27:52-06:00

ID

70213

Comment

Ray, I'm sorry if I walloped you hard during any of the tense threads. This is the problem with trolls -- their only purpose is to draw good people like you into nasty battles. You can't be blamed for defending yourself, your community, your integrity. But when two people are out each other's throats, I try to be an equal-opportunity moderator. So glad you're here there. And you are way too kind to me. And you go, with them racist cops. Idiots like that hurt us all. It can be nothing like what you have faced as a black man, but I can't tell you how much I resent the bigots you try to speak for all us white folk and to tell us how to think. The worst ones are the bigots who turn around and try to say that someone who is willing to face our past (and present) head-on somehow hates being white. These people are so race-obsessed that they can't see beyond the ends of their stuck-up little noses. Ever noticed that they people who proclaim the most that they're "colorblind" are the ones trying to keep anyone from talking about race history and issues? The "blind" syllable is the vital one. As I said, though, I feel sorry for people like that. It's must be awful to live inside walls of fear and hate.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-07-14T10:41:41-06:00

ID

70214

Comment

Yes, I have certainly noticed this for many years.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-14T11:21:36-06:00

ID

70215

Comment

And forgive our trespasses. I can't say much right now (you brought me tears, but such good tears). All I can say is THANK YOU, and more to come later....

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-07-14T11:47:38-06:00

ID

70216

Comment

Needless to say, Donna, you're forgiven, and was never out of my good grace and love. By the time you hit me over the head, I was indisputably in a fighting mode and had to be stopped fo the good of everybody else and me. The article made me cry, too, C.W., but, I'm too macho to tell it.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-14T12:05:08-06:00

ID

70217

Comment

Donna....a powerful and compelling article....thank you. We are blessed that you chose to return to Mississippi. I don't know of any other place where such spirited and meaningful dialogue can take place.

Author

fbd2

Date

2005-07-14T14:34:57-06:00

ID

70218

Comment

I'm just going to poke my head in here to say this is a powerful and moving piece of writing. Thanks, Donna...

Author

Ben G.

Date

2005-07-14T15:38:31-06:00

ID

70219

Comment

I truly canít imagine not being able to walk into a funeral home and say ìIím sorryî to someone who has suffered a great loss. Often we follow with, ìLet me know if I can do anything.î Likewise, I canít imagine seeing a community in pain, and mired in hopelessness that weóincluding elected officials, the media and everyday peopleóproject onto them, and refusing to apologize for everything the state, and its residents (including many of our families), did to create the conditions they live in now. Worse, it is unconscionable if we do not band together to reverse the harm done by past generations, who were, in turn, passing down the same excuses that we hear today. This was my favorite part among many marvelous passages. I read it with the memory of your (Donna) previous posts about wanting a "Truth and Reconciliation" movement here, and a memory, also, of Ed Whitfield and his words about the "retribution" we are dealing in here as opposed to the process they are going thru in North Carolina. I hope it's not too wicked of me to say (and think) that a couple of doses of retribution out of the Beckwith and Killen bottles went down pretty smoothly, indeed. While I'm thinking of "Truth and Reconciliation", though, it reminds me of the article I read today titled, "KKK imperial wizard to speak at Greensboro Truth and Reconciliation hearing". Now that's a grabber of a headline. http://www.the-dispatch.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050714/APN/507140507&cachetime=5 if anyone is interested in reading it. Also the Clarion Ledger article about the federal probes into the deaths of Charles Eddie Moore and Henry Hezekiah Dee (as well as Emmett Till) is exciting. I know it's too early to celebrate, but the probes in and of themselves are hopeful signs: http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050714/NEWS01/507140419/1002 I'm going to repeat something I said elsewhere - I am so glad that Lott and Cochran embarrassed themselves so much and got so much flak over refusing to sign the lynching apology, because they are having to redeem themselves by supporting the cold case unit. I urge everyone to write these two senators and express your support for what they are doing and ask them to support it in every way, to push for it and push for investigations in Mississippi. We can't just complain when these guys do wrong - we have to let them know that we're watching when they do right as well. Positive reinforcement works for kids and it also works for politicians (albeit for different reasons). We need to give them an incentive for doing right.

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-07-14T20:56:55-06:00

ID

70220

Comment

I think a very effective way to overcome this is to softly ask them challenging questions and ask them for the evidence for their beliefs. For people like I describe, convincing them should be fairly easy Phillip, I don't know how easy it would be, but it needs to be done, and belligerance will only go so far before people stop listening; some persuasion (mixed iwth a little belligerance when things are too far out of line) done persistently, stubbornly, consistently, can do the job when a lot of yelling and accusations won't. No point wasting your breath on the hardcores unless you are of the caliber of John Perkins (and I'm not). It's hard to believe that he turned Tommy Tarrants (exKlansman, bomber) around. Ray, you macho man, thanks for those lyrics. Talk about things that make you cry! I don't care much for rap as a general rule (but rules are made to be broken, right?), but I'd like to know who recorded this - I may just buy my first rap recording. It's beautiful, stark, deeply moving in print, but I think I'd like to hear how it sounds from someone who feels it from personal experience.

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-07-14T21:07:12-06:00

ID

70221

Comment

C.W., the song was recorded by Grand Master Flash And The Furious Five back in 1982. I tried to purchase a copy from BeBops recod store and was told they would have to order one for me. I understand your feelings about Rap. I couldn't stand it either until I heard The Message. I saw the potential after that. The lyrics alone don't do the song justice. You have to hear the music, bravo and bravura of the performers to really feel the power and essence of the song. Rap still has great potential despite it great potential to unnerve and aggravate people of our generation. We got to get them to rap about something mostly good instead of so much death, immorality, sex, misogyny, abuse, hustlings, pimping, materialism, etc. If you can't find a copy, I'll make you one. Young folks of most, if not all, races love Rap.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-18T08:29:16-06:00

ID

70222

Comment

We got to get them to rap about something mostly good instead of so much death, immorality, sex, misogyny, abuse, hustlings, pimping, materialism, etc. Very true. But there are two problems: (1) too often that's what they know about and for reasons that society doesn't want to face and (2) the music industry pays them big money to rap about this stuff. Sex and violence sells, whether in the movies, in newspapers or in the music world. Young folks of most, if not all, races love Rap. I'm not young, relatively speaking, but I really like rap. Not all rap, but I don't like all of any kind of music.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-07-18T10:27:00-06:00

ID

70223

Comment

On the same token we have to get the "Rockers" to make more tasteful rock tunes as well. Songs like "Sweet Cherry Pie" etc.. are the roots of this genre and it needs to be changed. But I was told long ago that music is entertainment and if Tommy Lee can make songs about mysongy and make millions, why can't 50 sense? Not to be a nitpicker, but it's debatable.

Author

Jocelyn

Date

2005-07-18T10:42:05-06:00

ID

70224

Comment

I know, Donna, they're rapping about their reality. We have to show them a different reality or don't complain. Lots of us are trying to do just this. I, for the most part like Rap, too, although, I don't broadcast it too loud. I can't count the number of times I have been in other cities and here, and while turning the channels for music of my generation, I hear a sound and some lyrics so telling and tantalizing that I can't move until I hear the song. I admit, however, that I'm mostly a music person and the music (the sounds of instruments) can often overwhelm me into not hearing all or any of the lyrics. I know people older than me (49) who like Rap. In 1992 I moved back to Mississippi, Greenville, in particularly. One day while living there, I took a ride in a car with two rich and wel-known black lawyers. After a couple of minutes, one of them threw in a rap tape and both started moving their heads back and forth. This incident blew my mind and I couldn't stop laughing. They lied saying "They were only listening so they will know what their kids were listening to." Certainly, I realize the vastness of the money is luring them in. Despite this, if Rap is legitimately hurting the cause of raising kids responsibly then the health of the children must be considered more important. I know there is a great debate about this.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-18T10:55:22-06:00

ID

70225

Comment

This might sound like a silly assumption, but aren't parents the final word on the growth of their children socially? I don't listen to hip hop at all and neither does my brother. we hate it, but we certainly don't advocate censorship of the genre. They are merely venting their feelings which is suppose to be a healthy thing. If they can't "let it out" without being ridiculed I suspect the things they rap about will come true. And it's going to take more than just telling the rappers to clean it up, to clean it up. So I doubt it will happen in either of our lifetimes.

Author

Jocelyn

Date

2005-07-18T11:35:59-06:00

ID

70226

Comment

I agree with Joc. Doesn't "raising kids responsibly" include explaining and discussing the messages that they hear in the music? Squelching the message or prohibiting kids from listening could make it all the more attractive to kids that are in their rebellious stage. Ray, you're right, there is much to debate on this issue.

Author

Steph

Date

2005-07-18T11:57:30-06:00

ID

70227

Comment

Thanks, Ray, I really appreciate that. I don't want the musicians to be cheated out their just compensation, though. I'll look around for it - if it's no longer for sale, I'll get back to you to take you up on that offer. I have a lot of conflicted feelings about Rap, so I'll be doing more listening than talking on that subject, at least until I get my thoughts sorted, however long that might take (maybe forever). I used to be totally against rap, but I'm trying to open my mind up a little. I know there are a lot of gross and unbelieveable lyrics in rock as well, and I like the rock I like and reject the rest. Actually, I see the roots of rap in a lot of the older jazz vocals, where the vocalist stops "singing" and basically "raps" about something for a verse or two, and I know rap didn't start out with the kind of lyrics a lot of them have now.

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-07-18T12:16:13-06:00

ID

70228

Comment

I hear you Steph and Jocelyn except too frequently the things they rap about are already true or inevitable, and sometimes they are because the rappers are the careless messengers. Are the parents really the final word? How about parents saying boy/girl don't use drugs, drugs are bad for your health. The boy/girl goes out and uses drugs anyway. Their peers were more persuasive. How about advertisements such as cigarettes, beer, etc.. Don't mention the sale of almost anything using a beautiful woman or man. There used to be a commercial advertising "tab" sodas as a gorgeous woman walked along the beach in a bathing suit. I must have seen the commercial a hundred times but never saw the tab soda. I didn't even know what the commercial was about until somebody did a show telling us (me and many others) what it was about. I asked my friends about this and none of them saw the soda either. Aren't many parents of today's generation quite young themselves and have not learned adequate discerning, protecting and rejection skills? If this is too often the case, how will a child born into this enviroment have a chance at rejecting and reconciling adult materials. I know it's not the rapper job to raise the children of the communities. Is it not irresponsible for a rapper or anyone else to spew garbage to those unable to decipher, reconcile and reject it? Some rap can probably be classified as garbage - something that does little or no good. I wouldn't squelch or censor Rap but I would make some of it, if I could, incapable of falling into the hands of 5-10 year olds. I wouldn't trust some parents to do this for their children either. Every now and then I hear my 5 year old grandson say "slow motion for me." When I ask him what did he say he won't repeat it and start to smiling. To him, right now, it's just a cathy phrase just as "back then they didn't want me but, now, I'm hot, they all on me." My grandson's mother, in many ways, is a good mother. Letting Caleb and MaKayla listen unmonitored to anything is a bad idea. I know I'm old fashioned and don't really know anything.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-18T12:55:10-06:00

ID

70229

Comment

I wouldn't squelch or censor Rap but I would make some of it, if I could, incapable of falling into the hands of 5-10 year olds. I wouldn't trust some parents to do this for their children either. Who better to guard the kids minds than their parents? I couldn't see some other Agency doing a better job of protecting the childrens minds. That would fall under mind control and thought policing. Teenagers are going to listen to whatever music makes them feels good. It's up to the parent to instill enough wisdom into that child that they don't take the words literally, realize it's just entertainment and leave it at that. I can't tell if you're blaming the artists or the parents, Ray. please clarify. Also, if these young kids are that much influenced by a song more than the tone of their own parents voice, that's the problem. not the music being made. Overall, Parents need to be more involved in their kids lives and not just let them find their own way like they might have done in the past. It doesn't take a village to be a parent.

Author

Jocelyn

Date

2005-07-18T14:32:32-06:00

ID

70230

Comment

You obviously know something Jocelyn that I and many parents haven't figured out if you think today's parents or any day's parents don't need all the help they can get to raise their children. I aver we're all responsible for doing what we can to help when we see the need. I lay blame on both the artists and parents when I see they're being careless and corrupt. I consider it a part of my humane responsibility to be as good and helpful as I can to others when I can. Do you think parents are more responsible today than in the past? Please share with me the proof you have of this. Many thinks just the opposite. I'm not advocating mind control or thought policing for developed persons or adults but I'm not totally against trying to do this for a young child to some degree. However, I do understand what you're talking about. What do we do when the parents are ill-equipped to instill wisdom or direction? What if the children are bombarded with dangerous and irreparable adult things before they are teenagers or develop teenagers' coping skills?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-18T14:56:11-06:00

ID

70231

Comment

It doesn't a village to be a parent, Ray. In the past this was the going norm and as you can see, that didn't work. These kids are the children of the 60's, 70's AND 80's, not just the young girls of the 90's acting like sluts and having babies at 16. poor parenting has been a problem for years because of the "It takes a village" IMHO. If a female gets pregnant(God forbid) at 16, she needs to look to her parents and family to help her through it. Not, the singers, actors, rappers and sports stars for her guidance. The entertainment industry has said a million times that they are not going to raise our kids for us and frankly it's time we listen and start raising them ourselves. I don't mess with other people's kids anymore because that's how lawsuits are filed. Blame the new legislation for that. So in essence, the "It takes a village" idea has been undermined already so it's time to abandon that idea. I say, let those rap kids have their fun. A little inhibition never hurt anyone.

Author

Jocelyn

Date

2005-07-18T15:13:13-06:00

ID

70232

Comment

...and furthermore, if lesbian women singers can get on records professing their love for other women what's wrong with a young rap kid rapping about being rich with lots of women at his disposal? Double standards are poor standards.

Author

Jocelyn

Date

2005-07-18T15:17:10-06:00

ID

70233

Comment

I like your response, Joycelyn, although I can't totally agree. I'm all for the Rap kids having fun. It has been good talking to you.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-07-18T15:19:16-06:00

ID

70234

Comment

Because a woman professing her love for another woman does not equal disposable women.

Author

emilyb

Date

2005-07-18T16:07:14-06:00

ID

70235

Comment

thanks emilyb for the comment. Meanwhile, I just now started at the top of this thread, a litte behind on things( am taking summer classes) and it was so affecting I couldn't read the whole thing. Donna knows how to right, who knew.. ;) So I was looking for The Message, thanks for asking ( C.W. I think) who the artist was. And I found it on Rhapsody, if anyone has that, so you can listen to it but it doesn't seem available to buy. It's a little different from what rap has become recently. I guess Grandmaster Flash has become an elder statesman now. Thanks for the mention.

Author

sunshine

Date

2005-07-18T16:28:46-06:00

ID

70236

Comment

thanks emilyb for the comment. Meanwhile, I just now started at the top of this thread, a litte behind on things( am taking summer classes) and it was so affecting I couldn't read the whole thing. Donna knows how to write, who knew.. ;) So I was looking for The Message, thanks for asking ( C.W. I think) who the artist was. And I found it on Rhapsody, if anyone has that, so you can listen to it but it doesn't seem available to buy. It's a little different from what rap has become recently. I guess Grandmaster Flash has become an elder statesman now. Thanks for the mention.

Author

sunshine

Date

2005-07-18T16:29:10-06:00

ID

70237

Comment

Sorry for the double post, I tried to catch it in time. In the first I said Donna knows how to right - ha. Had to correct that.

Author

sunshine

Date

2005-07-18T16:31:45-06:00