Jackson Free Press

Listen, this proposed "council" on racial reconciliation that I've read so much about in previous weeks appears to be a good idea ... in theory. But here's the thing, while this "council" is a necessary tool in the healing process, it will only work if two key pieces are in play.

One, the make-up of this group has to be diverse. Oftentimes, these brain trusts are made up of older businessmen and preachers. Good start. Unfortunately, there is a huge disconnect between our older and younger generations. More times than not, these groups fail to voice the thoughts and concerns of the hip-hop generation. And for all their attempts at barbershop rhetoric, our elders are severely out of touch with what's really on the minds of young folk in regards to the R-word—race. If this council is to be a success, it has to include our demographic. The hip-hop generation has something to say, and it's high time somebody starts listening.

That brings me to that second thing. This one, readers, is the most important by far. This council is doomed to fail unless those involved have the cantaloupes to speak candidly about the state of race relations in Mississippi. Honestly, anyone with the sense God gave a rock can see that our state has made huge strides in repairing the racial divide. But anyone with that same sense can also see that we have a loooong way to go.

Let's be real: Racism still exists here. There are still those who wish to hang on to the vestiges of Jim Crow.

What we don't need is a room full of elders and church folk drinking coffee and spouting nice euphemisms in an effort to dance around the issues. What we do need is real talk and real confrontation from real laypeople. Only then can there be real healing. Whites and blacks alike need to sit at a round table and express how they truly feel about each other.

As a recording artist, and a black man, I see the signs almost daily. And in a city that is 70 percent African American, actions speak louder than words. Honestly, some (and I stress some) white folk would rather just smile and bow their heads or clutch their purses than stop and find out more about me. People tend to fear or loathe what they don't understand. Why not use the council as a chance to ask? Say what you usually only think. Admit what we have come to believe.

For example:

• Officials here don't think that black folks can assemble without incident. Thus, their constant refusal to allow us access to venues for concerts and the like.

• Some Jackson clubs stress a "dress code" and want an "upscale" audience because they want to keep out the "undesirables," meaning young black men. Because of myth, some white folks just won't admit they don't want to party with black folks.

• People such as Kenny Stokes, Barry Bonds, Randy Moss—or me—are seen as brash, arrogant troublemakers, when in fact, we're simply confident, take-no-shorts type of guys wanting what's best for our family, community, team or whatever. America likes their black men passive.

• Jackson is 70 percent black because when the African-American middle class started moving into white neighborhoods in the mid '80s, white folks ran to the 'burbs. And then blamed us for their flight and the problems caused by it.

I could continue, but I'll leave that as a beginning. It's time to drop the facades and be real. Only then can we heal. Only then can all races in Mississippi co-exist as God intended.

And that's the truth ... Sho-Nuff!

Kamikaze is a rapper in Jackson. The former journalist writes a regular column for the Jackson Free Press.

Previous Comments

ID

69778

Comment

People such as Kenny Stokes, Barry Bonds, Randy Mossóor meóare seen as brash, arrogant troublemakers, when in fact, we're simply confident, take-no-shorts type of guys wanting what's best for our family, community, team or whatever. America likes their black men passive. I think that's an oversimplification. You're in the South, and the South (or maybe I should say "the white Southerner," because I don't really know how black people feel about this), for reasons that have nothing to do with race, generally doesn't like brash, arrogant people, regardless of color. As a white Southerner, I don't like brash, arrogant whites or blacks. Brash, arrogant people are annoying, period. And I can testify from personal experience that being a "confident, take-no-shorts type of guy" is one thing; being arrogant and obnoxious is another. There are plenty of ways to be confident and take-no-shorts even in the South, without offending everybody in sight. Best, Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-24T07:40:39-06:00

ID

69779

Comment

"the white Southerner . . . for reasons that have nothing to do with race, generally doesn't like brash, arrogant people, regardless of color I disagree with that statement. Proof? Haley Barbour, Kirk Fordice, Terry Burton, George Wallace, Lester Maddox, Ross Barnett, Trent Lott. Whatever else you may think of any of these, good or bad, can you deny that they are/were brash, arrogant, white, and well respected enough to be elected to public office, again and again? These are just the few who immediately came to mind, and I'm not even thinking past politicians into the entertainment business, which is rife with them. Rethink, Tim. :-)

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-03-24T15:46:13-06:00

ID

69780

Comment

I definitely think we have a history of allowing white men in Mississippi to be as brash as they want to be. I think Kamikaze makes a good point. Of course, there will be exceptions, but ... He's not saying that all white Southerners love brashness in other whites--however, the culture certainly allows it more in certain folks than in others, and on certain topics. Kind of like our discussion about what society likes in its women.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-24T15:50:26-06:00

ID

69781

Comment

Wooo, Donna, isn't that the truth!

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-03-24T20:55:31-06:00

ID

69782

Comment

Haley Barbour, Kirk Fordice, Terry Burton, George Wallace, Lester Maddox, Ross Barnett, Trent Lott. Some of these people I have no experience of (most of them, in fact). I don't even know who Terry Burton is or was. I think it's a MAJOR stretch to describe Trent Lott as either "brash" or "arrogant" -- in manner, anyway, which is what I was referring to. Certainly he is arrogant in fact, but I don't think he comes across that way. It also, unfortunately, is the case that you can get away with more open brashness and arrogance when you're saying things most people agree with. I'm not defending this state of affairs; I'm just pointing out that if you don't want people to tune you out right away, you have to think about how you're coming across to them. In Mississippi, this is as true for white gay people as it is for black people or anyone else who may be trying to convey a message most people don't want to hear. Race is not a factor here.

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-25T00:55:19-06:00

ID

69783

Comment

Loved your op-ed, Kamikaze. A few thoughts of my own: 1. Amen on the honesty thing. I sometimes feel like antiracism is more of a PR opportunity than an actual social movement. 2. Yeah, I agree 100% that white Southern culture tolerates more brashness from whites than it does from blacks. Race is a factor here. However... 3. If I pretended to like every single black public figure just because s/he was black, I'd be reflecting exactly the kind of overcompensating, patronizing, "let me help you" white-man's-burden racism that has helped poison the antiracism movement into catatonia. Whites do need to stop exploiting point #2 to criticize every single black politician they disagree with, though--less of this Angry Black Man stereotype, more focus on what's actually being said. 4. I believe Jackson became 55% black because white folks...well, you have a point. Some want to live in their own little lily-white worlds, but some are just statistically more likely to be able to afford suburban homes, and the suburbs are quieter and have lower crime rates (both real and perceived). Then it became 70% black when the suburbs got engorged from all those rich people's money and turned into boomtowns. (Crime wasn't the sole factor, because we had twice as many murders 15 years ago as we have today.) Madison, Brandon, and Clinton are damn nice places to live--low crime rates, no city taxes, fancier grocery stores, smaller classrooms for the kids, plenty of forests and such to walk around in. Race, again, is a factor, but I don't think it has been the major factor for at least 10 or 15 years; I know plenty of black folks who moved to the 'burbs to get away from the crime and enjoy the Jitney Premiers and Super Wal-Marts. Meanwhile, suburbanites get to reap all the benefits of living "in" Jackson without actually paying for them--milking a cow through the fence, in effect. No way to solve this problem without creating a catch-22; annex all of the suburbs and you get funds to improve life in the city, but you bring in a population that will elect a mayor who doesn't really care about folks living in the city because he'll know that isn't where his constituency is. That's one of the things Stokes was right about, though he didn't put it that way. Seems to me that the solution is to annex some of the suburbs, and slowly, rather than giving up on annexation altogether, but I'm not a city planner and the odds of my ever having any political clout are slim to nil because I'm a cranky writer and I shoot off my mouth. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-03-25T03:27:09-06:00

ID

69784

Comment

It also, unfortunately, is the case that you can get away with more open brashness and arrogance when you're saying things most people agree with. You got that part absolutely right, Tim. Now, tell me what it is they are saying (and doing) that people agree with (white people)...... I think it's a MAJOR stretch to describe Trent Lott as either "brash" or "arrogant" That statement just floors me. What would a powerful white man have to do to come across to you as brash and arrogant? (rhetorical question) Tim, Terry Burton is a very powerful state senator from Newton. He was on my mind because I saw him on PBS night before last. He's one of the main men who is refusing to allow the whole senate to vote on a cigarette tax (even though a majority of Mississippians are for it, and a small majority of senators have told the Clarion Ledger they would vote for a 50 cent tax - it was a tie on $1 a pack tax - with a few refusing to answer and a few still undecided). He has it tied up in committee and won't allow a vote. People kept calling in asking about it, and I would say that he fairly well epitomized arrogance and brashness. He might as well have answered them with a raspberry. I saw him interact with Rep. Watson on the show and I understood much better now why there is an impasse between the two governing bodies. If you're too young to remember Lester Maddox, George Wallace and Ross Barnett and you haven't learned anything about them, then your education has a broad hole in it that spans the whole civil rights era. Wallace ran for President and did quite well. Edgar Killen, while you will have a hard time finding a person who will publicly support him now, once was much cosseted by many white Mississippians, as was Byron de la Beckwith and others of that ilk. I do believe Kamikaze got it right about the generation gap - and we have created an education gap in this state. The civil rights era has been hands off in our schools for so long, most of our youth have no idea what went on during that time. I know that's true, because I've talked about things that happened then, which were huge historically and newswise, and my sons have not known what I was talking about. When I asked if they didn't study any of this in school, they answer was "No". Part of one page in their history book covered that whole time period; unbelievable. They are now in their mid-twenties. Anyone know what our kids are being taught (or kept kept in the dark about) now?

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-03-25T09:27:29-06:00

ID

69785

Comment

If you're too young to remember Lester Maddox, George Wallace and Ross Barnett and you haven't learned anything about them, then your education has a broad hole in it that spans the whole civil rights era. Keep your shirt on, for Chrissake. I am very well aware of who these people were. That's not the same as having had an opportunity to see and hear how they came across, which is the point for purposes of this discussion. I am too young for that. I'm also old enough that we didn't have the Internet or much in the way of multimedia (we still called it "A/V") when I was in school. I actually was lucky enough to go to a school that used the controversial book Mississippi: Conflict and Change to teach Mississippi history. I also have a copy of this book on my shelf and re-read it just a few weeks ago. So I, for one, did get a good grounding in the civil rights movement as part of my Mississippi history course. Are there any more assumptions you would like to make about "holes in my education" while you're at it? -- Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-25T09:45:07-06:00

ID

69786

Comment

Once again, excellent job Kamikaze!!!! couldnt have said it any better!!!!! I think folks around here would rather just avoid the issue of race and hope it goes away then deal with it head on. AND the reason why young kids don't seem to care is because the civil rights generation, though they say they do, don't want to hand the torch over and let this generration have a go. Somehow I feel like they are akin to old athletes or entertainers who don't want to let go of the spotlight. They linger too long at deminished capacity because they still want to feel important. Even after they have proven to no longer be effective. Let these young people have a shot. they're the ones who will actaully have to live in the world 20 years from now. The older folks will have passed. A problem still exists here and its larger than we think. As the African American population grows the more I see Jim Crow tryin to creep back up. The more I see an old Aparthied mindset rear its ugly head. You may think Im exaggerating but if you were on MY side of the fence you'd see it clearer.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-25T10:03:25-06:00

ID

69787

Comment

I think it's a MAJOR stretch to describe Trent Lott as either "brash" or "arrogant" -- in manner, anyway, which is what I was referring to. Certainly he is arrogant in fact, but I don't think he comes across that way. Read his columns we post here? They are infused with arrogance, if not brashness. Not saying they shouldn't be arrogant if he wants--remember this discussion is about whether Mississippi tolerates more arrogance and brashness in white men than in others. I definitely say, "yes." Of course, I grew up in Neshoba County, hearing the political discussions at the fair every year (even remember Ross Barnett). Harumph.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-25T10:23:12-06:00

ID

69788

Comment

My point exactly....Mississippi does and anyone can see it. These "good ole boys" here long for the old days where blacks were passive, didnt look em in the eye, and just let them do what ever they wanted to politically to us and we were supposed to take it. MS still likes their black folks "seen and not heard" Like it or not lets be "REAL" like Kamikaze says...If Kenny Stokes was white he'd be applauded. If Barry Bonds was white he'd be a hero for takin down Babe Ruth's mark, If Kamikaze was white hed be..BONO???Lol I dunno but you get my point.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-25T10:31:41-06:00

ID

69789

Comment

Keep your shirt on, for Chrissake. OK, Tim, maybe I misread your comments - it came across to me as you not knowing who these people are. Your level of reaction to my perception of what you were saying seems a little overboard, and it let you sail right by two I know you have seen/heard (Fordice and Barbour). It also let you sail by the question of what you thought these two were saying that so many white Mississippians agree with so that these two were/are acceptable in their arrogance and brashness. I'd like to ask what school you went to if it's not too personal (if it is, never mind - this is just idle curiosity). You were very lucky, indeed, to have been taught out of "Mississippi: Conflict and Change." I'm wondering how many schools teach from it now, considering that a few years ago, it was not allowed. As I said, my children (now grown) were not taught anything of substance about the civil right era. Sorry if I got personal with the comment about holes in your education; it wasn't intended quite the way it came out. I was thinking that you were part of a large group of young adults in Mississippi who do have a huge gap in their history education. Appears you are one of the luckier ones.

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-03-26T10:04:39-06:00

ID

69790

Comment

If Kamikaze was white hed be..BONO??? Trusip, you are a riot. AND the reason why young kids don't seem to care is because the civil rights generation, though they say they do, don't want to hand the torch over and let this generration have a go. Can I ask how old you are Trusip? I find this comment interesting (I'm not sure that I go along with it 100%), As one of the older generation, I've never heard this expressed before, but it's worth consideration. TH, you made some very good points about urban flight. We all know how it started, and it's too late to undo the mindset that put it in motion, but as far as where it is now, this seems like a good analysis to me.

Author

C.W.

Date

2005-03-26T10:12:40-06:00

ID

69791

Comment

Hi C.W., I'm afraid I did take the comment about my education personally. I'm sorry if I wasn't as clear as I should have been. From basically the seventh grade (it's a little unclear), I went to the Education Center School on Old Canton Road in Jackson. Mississippi: Conflict and Change was new, and apparently the school had made the wise decision to start using it either that year or the year before. Makes me wonder what that school is using now. The authors of the book sued the State of Mississippi after the State Textbook Commission refused to approve it. They (the authors) won, but that wasn't until 1980, the year I graduated from high school (again, Ed Center). It occurred to me when I was thinking about your post that this must have been about the time I started arguing with my parents about racism. (I had noticed, at a very young age in Rolling Fork, the oddness of having a separate door in the doctor's office marked "Colored" that was closed off and apparently not used; but I don't know whether I asked any questions about it or not.) So it's very possible that it was Mississippi: Conflict and Change that awoke the incipient radical in me. :-) To get back to what Kamikaze wrote, let me say that I agree with everything 100% in the context in which he wrote it, except for this: America likes their black men passive. Let me put it this way: That may or may not be true, but those are not the words of someone who is interested in reconciliation. What I think I'm trying to say is that BOTH sides will have to approach this in a spirit of humility if it is going to work. If Kamikaze had written the previous sentence and then gone on to his next point, without the sentence I've quoted above, I probably would have just nodded in agreement with everything and not even posted to this thread (because I'd have had nothing to add). Does that make a little more sense? Here is another quote from Kamikaze that I wanted to ask about: Jackson is 70 percent black because when the African-American middle class started moving into white neighborhoods in the mid ë80s, white folks ran to the 'burbs. I don't doubt the truth of this for one minute, but I was living in Jackson in the mid-1980s and I'm not sure what "white neighborhoods" he's referring to here. Can anybody help me? Best, Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-26T11:47:07-06:00

ID

69792

Comment

I know some of this happened in south Jackson. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-03-26T13:59:30-06:00

ID

69793

Comment

Thanks Tom! You jogged my memory. I knew a lady who lived down there, and I remember when blacks started to move into her neighborhood in the late 1980s. Best, Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-26T14:23:47-06:00

ID

69794

Comment

Racial Reconciliation (in the context of directly confronting issues) - I think a large part of avoiding heated talk is the actual fear of saying something that can, in some cases, lead to actual physical assault, or at the very least lead to the "other" expressing extreme anger that usually precedes physical assault. The parties in the argument may rationally believe the actual risk of physical assault is close to nil, but that's not the point. To simply agree and desire a racial dialogue is one thing -- to dismiss the "R-Complex" in all our brains (the "fight or flight" part of our brain) will leave us indecisive. **Armchair psychologist commentary only** The good news is that the brain can be trained to overcome fear. Repeated good personal experiences with "others" AND continuously making efforts at small talk with "others" is the most effective way to overcome this in my experience (I speak as white who worked at jobs were blacks outnumbered me by 4, 5, and 6 to 1). This may be enough to wipe away personal fear in common everyday situations -- BUT...it seems before true reconciliation can take place, you also have to, as Tim said, have lots of humility. This also has to be combined with rigourous critical thinking skills, especially in regard to looking at things from the others point of view (i.e. "From WHERE...EXACTLY...does so-and-so get their idea of "acceptable person. And should I really blame him or her for those opinions..or are they truly being stubborn and intolerant out of petty personal distaste"?). There's much more I can say about this, but I think you all get my point. *R stands for "Reptilian", incidentally the most primative part - anybody surprised at this?

Author

Philip

Date

2005-03-26T15:03:10-06:00

ID

69795

Comment

TH, Re: Annexing cities. Cities cannot annex suburbs, as municipal charters are granted directly by the state government (maybe even the legislature itself, but i'm not quite sure). The only feasible notion even in theory would be for the legislature to yank the charters of all municipalities in Hinds, Madison, and Rankin AND merge those three counties into Capital County or something like that (but please don't name it Barbour or Fordice County!!!!) http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/forums/threads.php?id=5185_0_16_0_C for more about this. As for arrogance of Southern Whites: Doesn't every group tolerate arrogance from their own kind (or at least "side") more than they tolerate it in the other? Think about "enthusiastic conservatives" and "enthusiastic liberals". When was the last time you heard either say anything nice or even respectful bout the other?

Author

Philip

Date

2005-03-26T15:10:23-06:00

ID

69796

Comment

TH, Re: Annexing cities. Cities cannot annex suburbs, as municipal charters are granted directly by the state government (maybe even the legislature itself, but i'm not quite sure). The only feasible notion even in theory would be for the legislature to yank the charters of all municipalities in Hinds, Madison, and Rankin AND merge those three counties into Capital County or something like that (but please don't name it Barbour or Fordice County!!!!) http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/forums/threads.php?id=5185_0_16_0_C for more about this. As for arrogance of Southern Whites: Doesn't every group tolerate arrogance from their own kind (or at least "side") more than they tolerate it in the other? Think about "enthusiastic conservatives" and "enthusiastic liberals". When was the last time you heard either say anything nice or even respectful about the other?

Author

Philip

Date

2005-03-26T15:10:27-06:00

ID

69797

Comment

Sorry for the Double post. That"s what happens when you try to correct a minor error too late

Author

Philip

Date

2005-03-26T15:12:05-06:00

ID

69798

Comment

Trusip wrote: AND the reason why young kids don't seem to care is because the civil rights generation, though they say they do, don't want to hand the torch over and let this generration have a go. At the risk of offending some people I admire greatly, I too think there's truth to this. I think it's one of the points Kamikaze is trying to get to in this column: The older generations -- heroes, you can call them -- don't do a great job of turning off the reins, and I think that has stymied progress. Now, I'm not blaming them for that -- they can't be expected to be great at everything, and they've earned their stripes -- but I think Kamikaze's "barbershop" comments nail a vital point. I was at a youth summit sponsored by the mayor's office last year at which a lot of good ideas were discussed. One Civil Rights veteran, whom I know and adore and work with on projects, stood up and dressed down the younger generation because they "don't know their generation," and because they wear those baggy pants hanging down to their knees and some other statements that showed a major disconnect and lack of respect. I couldn't help but think of the books that quote CR veterans saying that, back in the '60s, Mississippi racists disparaged their sandals and their facial hair and all sorts of other things that were "different" about them. They're right that many young people don't know enough about the Civil Rights struggle. But many of the veterans (there are notable exceptions, such as Mr. Moses) haven't done a great job of passing the torch--that is, figuring out how to talk to them in a way that will make them interested. I have one CR veteran, whom I admire, who calls me about once a week, often to complain because we haven't done a story about a reunion event related to the CRM. Even as she understands that this is a new generation, she has a problem understanding that today's young generations have their own problems and stories to tell. We have to learn from the past, but we can't be stuck there. The best advice ANYONE has given me about doing the JFP came from Hodding Carter III after I sent him copies of the first issue or two. Among other things, he told me (and I'm paraphrasing) not to be overly concerned about the voices of the past. Go find the voices of the new generation and publish them, he said. They are the future. And I've tried to take that advice to heart: honor the past and learn from it, but with your feet planted in the present and looking and working toward the future. Thus, the reason Bono, er, Kamikaze has a column in the JFP. (That one cracked me up, trusip. LMAO.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-26T15:30:19-06:00

ID

69799

Comment

As a Black Man who grew up in Mississippi and witnessed first hand what these other black "kids" are ranting about, I stand firm in telling you young bucks that you're misguided and grasping at straws. I could never understand blacks who have that "they can do it why can't I?" attitude. I mean seriously, If Kenny Stokes was white talking like he does, his a$$ would be jobless. Remember Trent Lott? Way too many times do the uppity negros in Jackson get a slap on the wrists just like the whites. So I really don't know what planet some of you blacks are living on. Now I'll address a few points made by the writer of this article: ï Officials here don't think that black folks can assemble without incident. Thus, their constant refusal to allow us access to venues for concerts and the like. You think maybe, just maybe if young Black people wouldn't break out fighting, throwing bottles and gunplay at these venues things just might change for the better and help build a reputation that we can party without the ignorance? Having ONE good night is not enough. ï Some Jackson clubs stress a "dress code" and want an ìupscaleî audience because they want to keep out the "undesirables,î meaning young black men. Because of myth, some white folks just won't admit they don't want to party with black folks. the "Some" clubs you speak of SHOULD have a dress code. Maybe it's time for you to go shopping. And what about the young black men that play by the rules of the club? are they "undesirables" too? Only on rap nights should the dress code be relaxed. Talk to the owners and get what you want done and stop bitching about a club you will never own, but are dying to perform in. ï People such as Kenny Stokes, Barry Bonds, Randy Mossóor meóare seen as brash, arrogant troublemakers, when in fact, we're simply confident, take-no-shorts type of guys wanting what's best for our family, community, team or whatever. America likes their black men passive. I don't know you from a dirt road but Randy Moss is the only one worth mentioning and he's not a brash arrogant troublemaker AT ALL. Just a hungry wideout playing hard for a championship ring. Barry Bonds is a teddy bear(passive) and Kenny Stokes is an idiot(counterproductive). how's that for a brash Black Man saying what's real, Ladd? ï Jackson is 70 percent black because when the African-American middle class started moving into white neighborhoods in the mid ë80s, white folks ran to the 'burbs. And then blamed us for their flight and the problems caused by it. I don't know if you've lived in Jackson very long but case study the neighborhood of Woodhaven in N.Jackson. I lived in that neighborhood for 3 years and I, A BLACK MAN, had to move the hell out because my neighborly negros felt the need to blast their booming systems well past midnight and sell drugs out the same house. And this neighborhood was touted as a "bird sancturary". to trusip: YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS. Why hand over the city too a bunch of wild kids who can't even go to the club without shooting the place up? You want to "get real" then go tell Tyrone up the street that his drug dealing gun shooting antics are f*cking up the quality of life in the city of Jackson. And stop pointing fingers at the white people in Mississippi who are not going to fix a black problem. Their solution is more cops to put YOU in jail. You want that?

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-28T08:56:05-06:00

ID

69800

Comment

I definitely think we have a history of allowing white men in Mississippi to be as brash as they want to be - ladd I agree..lol. Because everytime I get brash on this site you threathen to turn off my account but allow others to run free with their salty rhetoric.(no names needed)

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-28T09:01:55-06:00

ID

69801

Comment

OK, for my own edification: (1) Is this the Randy Moss y'all are talking about? (2) Is this the Barry Bonds y'all are talking about? In addition to not living in the US, I also don't follow sports. Best, Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-28T09:24:44-06:00

ID

69802

Comment

yes, Tim.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-28T10:00:15-06:00

ID

69803

Comment

That's not true, Black Man. Ask Buck Allred. And I really don't think he's black. Such petty martyrdom doesn't become you, B.M. You have too much to say to resort to that. I agree with you at least half the time, and I enjoy thinking about your comments I don't agree with the other 40 percent of the time. And the 10 percent of the time that you get offensive and launch personal attacks, I tell you to cool it. Same with other folks. "Salty" is fine for anyone; ad hominems aren't. And I don't care what color you are.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-28T10:09:26-06:00

ID

69804

Comment

Personal attacks are just fine with me ladd..especially when they're warranted!!!!! I'm an African American male in his late 30's/early40's(I like to hover around in there somehwere). And I'd like to thank BM for setting black folks back about 30 years!!!! In fact, on futher review I'm not even sure you are indeed black. Can't be from what I read. I speak to older folk all the time, hell theyre some of my peers and I have surmised that a lot of them are a tad jealous of these younger kids. In this age of hip-hop, fashion, sports and the like, a lot of young kids are making millions of dollars without having to conform to the same "rules" that many of our age had to conform to coming up. The old civil rights era is all some of them have to hold on to to feel even the slightest bit relevant. Hence, they hold on to it like a kid squeezing his last lollipop tightly in his hand. You have to let go and let the hip-hop generation have their say. Just like in the 60's when black kids decided that the way blacks operated in the 30's and 40's wasnt going to work anymore they demanded a new way. Before the 60's set in Jim Crow had its grips firmly around the black community. Until of course, young folks said NO MORE and MLK, and Malcolm X, and the Black Panthers were born. It's that time now. Let Kamikaze and those who wish to take up the charge do so. They are capable. And to answer the other ??? Neigborhoods in south Jackson that were once majority white are now predominately black....The white folks moved to Terry and Byram. And as a Black man that moved to north jackson in the 70's, Valley North, Northgate, Norwood, Woodlea etc. ALL were predominately white as late as 1978 but those folks up and moved to madison and beyond. If you wish to go even further...the neighborhoods surrounding Jackson State at one time were majority white as late as thee 60's. It's happened all over town its just that some people wanted to close their eyes to it.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-28T10:32:51-06:00

ID

69805

Comment

Personal attacks are just fine with me ladd..especially when they're warranted!!!!! That's fine for you. But they're not fine with me, or here on the site, as you saw in the User Agreement when you registered and agreed to abide by our rules for the privilege of posting here. That's what I'm pointing out to you, as I have to many bloggers on the site. You can make your point by not launching personal attacks, and you need to in order to keep posting here. As I've said, your ideas are welcome -- but whether you are white or black or purple, you are not welcome to call people names or post personal attacks. Otherwise, you're bringing up good points, so carry on. I'll reel you in when I have to. ;-D (I'm a little undecided on your accusing Black Man of not being black and where that fits into the User Agreement. ;-) I have a feeling he can handle it, so I'll give you leeway for the moment. But, B.M., feel free to tell me if you think that insult goes too far. This isn't an exact science here, but it is necessary to keep the JFP from devolving into the insult-laden drivel that dominates many other local blogs.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-28T10:50:33-06:00

ID

69806

Comment

And I'd like to thank BM for setting black folks back about 30 years!!!! In fact, on futher review I'm not even sure you are indeed black. Can't be from what I read. An interesting concept: based on the opinions a person puts forth, it's possible to divine the person's race. Who, again, is "setting black folks back about 30 years"? Thank you for answering my question, though...but I was asking specifically about the mid-1980s, which Kamikaze mentioned. South Jackson's already been mentioned (that may be what Kamikaze was referring to), but the division of the northern sections of Jackson into black and white was largely complete by 1980, if memory serves. I think the same is pretty much true of West Jackson as well, although I don't pretend to be as familiar with that part of Jackson. -- Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-28T10:51:19-06:00

ID

69807

Comment

...And as for you Black Man...the reason I think you're masquerading is because you did just what most of those who generalize about African Americans do. You picked out random incidents and some unforutnate generalized things that happened to you personally and twisted them into a factless rant. ...Every event that targets Afican American youths does NOT end in violence!!! In fact it rarely ever happens. The times that it doesnt FAR surpass the times that it does. Only because the media and people like you choose to accentuate the negative do we hear about those unfortunate instances, These kids are inherently good but you like to take the bad apples and let them spoil the bunch. We have Waaaaay more than one good night my friend. ...Secondly I dress immacualtely by the way but everyone does not want to (or have to) dress the way I dress. I think dress codes are unconstitutional at best and stupid in the least. If you're an asshole wearing slacks and a button down dress codes aren't going to change that. You're still going to go to the club and cause trouble. It's not the clothes its the jackass wearing them thats the problem. The guys who conform to the dress codes are just being themselves just as the ones who are wearing the jeans, sneakers, and baseball caps. No one should be penalized for being an individual. I've got a 19 year-old son and from what he tells me this Kamikaze fella isnt begging to play anybody's club...they're begging him!!!!!(I try to stay hip LOL) ...the kenny stokes comment goes without reply. Your comments let me know that it is YOU who may be the idiot (i tried to steer away from the name calling ladd sorry.) ...And you want to demonize the entire neigborhood of woodlea because YOU happened to get ALLEGED drug dealers as neighbors. I'm sorry if that experience was unpleasant for you I truly do. Everyone should live in peace. Not a fan of LOUD music at all times of night, but what proof do you have that they were dealing drugs...Did they get arrested??? were they on the news??? did they offer you some??? I guess cause they were young, black, appeared to have a little money, some nice cars, and they blasted their music that made them the devil incarnate huh?? ...Yes the hip-hop generation is ready to assume the reins we older folks just need to let go and let them work. We're not pointing the finger at anybody. I'm fully aware of the ills of the black community. But I look to the positive. Sure there may be a Tyrone up the street selling dope but there's a Tyron (for lack of a better name) on the other end who's trying to do something good. And believe you me there are WAAAAAY more Tyrons in Jackson than Tyrones as you put it.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-28T10:57:39-06:00

ID

69808

Comment

got your post after my last comments. and my apologies ladd. I'll refrain per the user agreement.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-28T11:15:01-06:00

ID

69809

Comment

Alright, trusip, stop accusing B.M. as "masquerading." You're hurting your own points by making it personal, and it's going too far -- even though I appreciate your trying to not call anyone an "idiot." This isn't a place for a shouting match. Please, all, breathe before you hit post, and go back and read your post for personal attacks. You can still get the good stuff out there without accusing people of things you can't know. Here's an anology: there's a Melton supporter over on the Ledge's forums who declared that a poster who questions Melton absolutely must work for the mayor and is afraid of losing her job. And she can't be a teacher, as she states, because she writes too well. As you can see from that, assuming makes an ass out of someone -- and it always starts with the person making the assumption. Breathe. This is an important dialogue; let's not let ad hominem attacks get in its way and drive people away from things that need to be discussed.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-28T11:16:00-06:00

ID

69810

Comment

Trusip, we just cross-posted. Thanks for being cool about it. I really do want you here; you're saying important stuff, so take my hand-slap in the spirit it's done. Cheers.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-28T11:17:15-06:00

ID

69811

Comment

I appreciate you taking into account that I have something to say every now and then :o) .. but ad hominem attacks? no ma'am. I realize when you say that, you mean to say that I'm attacking peoples character, right? cool. because I haven't attacked a single person's character on this site. I point my aggressions at people I know or know of. So if I call Frank Melton an idiot or Kenny Stokes a bum, I'm not too far from the truth. I've actually met these people(unlike most here) and let me tell you, an opinionated black man with tough questions like me urks the hell out of them more than white people in Mississippi because I don't think anything like they do. Neither one of those guys were born or raised in Jackson, correct me if I'm wrong, so they can't tell me shit about solving Jackson's economic and race issues. They're part of the problem if you ask me. What's also shocking is the fact that Kamikaze(younger generation) is embracing Kenny Stokes(same old politics) with approval when this entire column is aimed at "the Kenny's" of Jackson. what the hell is going here?

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-28T11:30:51-06:00

ID

69812

Comment

B.M., do study up on what a personal attack it. It doesn't mean it's against a complete stranger whom you don't "know of." Come on. It's name-calling and directly accusing other people of being "a racist" or "an idiot," due to their opinion. I know it's hard to realize in a time of Fox News, Chris Matthews and talk radio, but THAT is not debate or discussion. It is launching personal attacks. Now, stating your opinion to Kamikaze about Kenneth Stokes (and public figures get a bit more leeway by nature of what they do) is fine. Just do it in a way that's not just name-calling. And, btw, you don't do this often, so there's no real reason to hash it out. And I believe you've apologized when you have, or at least most of the time. Debate isn't easy, and we all resort to personal attacks now and then. The key is to be man, or woman, enough to recognize it and apologize for it. And you've done that, unlike some other folks who've passed through here. So, carry on. No need to hash it out more. I'll let you know if/when you go too far. Meantime, debate away.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-28T11:36:22-06:00

ID

69813

Comment

... what a personal attack IS ... (sorry)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-28T11:37:38-06:00

ID

69814

Comment

Ladd, I won't rip into trusips a$$ for throwing his/her insults because it's obvious that he/she missed my whole point. Trusip: have you EVER lived in Woodhaven? if so, then you'd know that back in the early 70's-80's that neighborhood was the BEST area to live in without jumping the county line. Turn the page to 2005, wild a$$ drug dealers and even murders have turned up in the neighborhood. And you wish to agree with Kamikaze on this statment: "...because when the African-American middle class started moving into white neighborhoods in the mid ë80s, white folks ran to the 'burbs. And then blamed us for their flight and the problems caused by it. ^ I can't in my WILDEST dreams believe that shit. BLACK PEOPLE caused the problems that made that neighborhood shitty, not white flight! although a small percentage moved out due to their trained hatred of Blacks. Same with Presidential Hills. EXAMPLE: Woodlea UNLIKE Woodhaven is STILL a great place to live and it's right across the street. why is that trusip? explain that if you can, please. I won't go into specifics but let's just say that more people than me knew they were selling drugs. The rest of your blind rant doesn't even register with me. Sorry.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-28T11:48:21-06:00

ID

69815

Comment

In the quest to allow alternative opinions and debate, it's going to be hard, ladd. but I can manage.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-28T11:54:52-06:00

ID

69816

Comment

...Secondly I dress immacualtely by the way but everyone does not want to (or have to) dress the way I dress. I think dress codes are unconstitutional at best and stupid in the least. If you're an a****** wearing slacks and a button down dress codes aren't going to change that. You're still going to go to the club and cause trouble. It's not the clothes its the jackass wearing them thats the problem. The guys who conform to the dress codes are just being themselves just as the ones who are wearing the jeans, sneakers, and baseball caps. No one should be penalized for being an individual. Who are YOU to tell these club owners how to run their businesses! If the hip hop kids can't abide by the club rules on dress code then OPEN YOUR OWN CLUB! ...then you can have naked booty night with free beer if you want to! I've got a 19 year-old son and from what he tells me this Kamikaze fella isnt begging to play anybody's club...they're begging him!!!!!(I try to stay hip LOL) If that's the case, where's the problem? Because I'm sure they're not asking him to wear a suit and tie when they know he's a hip hopper. GET REAL TRUSIP!

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-28T12:00:55-06:00

ID

69817

Comment

[quote]The hip-hop generation has something to say, and it's high time somebody starts listening. - Kamikaze[/quote] You know, I've been hearing this since the Beastie Boys and Public Enemy overhauled MTV and have never seen a real agenda or path or list of concerns presented by the artists in action or in verse... Now, the Beastie Boys are very loud about THEIR agenda but not specific to the "hip hop generation" and they even seem to be a bit disconnected from hip-hop culture. I'll bite. Please, tell me. What's the hip-hop generation saying to us? I could tell you what I've heard and seen in videos and cds but I've witnessed Black Man get flamed for saying what he's heard and seen. So, why not tell us? Is there a "hip-hop agenda" that I'm missing and how does it benefit me and our society as a whole? How does one become part of the "hip-hop generation"? Is it like the X-gen where you fall in a certain space on the timeline? Is it that you wear "Y" brand during "Z" time frame? There's a lot of non-specifics involved in what seems to define this "generation" and I reallly want specifics. So: - What, by defintion, is the hip-hop generation? (keep in mind there are 40-somethings and near 50-somethings in the scene so obviously it's nothing like gen-X or gen-Y or gen-XY). - How does one join the hip-hop generation? Is it buying an Eminem cd? - What is the philosophy of the hip-hop generation? - Does the music fit the philosophy of the generation? And finally... - What does the hip-hop generation have to say to people outside of the "generation." The message OBVIOUSLY is not coming through in the music and the actions of the hip-hoppers... For the sake of, you can replace "generation" with "culture" if you wish because I feel they are interchangeable in the overall question. Anyone care to clue me in?

Author

kaust

Date

2005-03-28T14:00:13-06:00

ID

69818

Comment

LADD: "That's not true, Black Man. Ask Buck Allred. And I really don't think he's black." Errr, was there a question and what was it?

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-28T16:13:59-06:00

ID

69819

Comment

buck, it was in response to this comment by BM: Because everytime I get brash on this site you threathen to turn off my account but allow others to run free with their salty rhetoric. I think you were used as an example of a (probably) white guy who gets in trouble for being "brash" and using salty rhetoric. As for this thread - I'm kind of in agreement with everyone, if that's possible. Where to start... I liked the article the first time I read it. I think it's virtually impossible for me to imagine what it's like to be a black man, but having seen some of the statistics and research out there, I'd have to agree with the basic premise that racism is still built into or society and we need to face that fact so we can get beyond it. As to the "brashness" comments - I agree with whoever it was that said that Southerners in general don't like brashness. People are *really* hard to work with sometimes, because they won't just come out and say, "you know, that's a really stupid idea, and here's why I think that." Instead, they just nod and smile and generally avoid any in-depth discussion. That said, there's a noticeable percentage of white men here who really illustrate the notion of Ego. While I wouldn't call them brash, necessarily, they do have a tremendous sense of self importance and self centeredness that would be comical if it weren't so annoying to deal with. So, I land slightly on the side of, 'yeah, it's easier for white men to be brash than it is for women/people of color.' I do think it's a fun exercise to play the 'what if Stokes were white' game. For the record, when I was at St. Andrew's in Jr. High, we used "Mississippi: Conflict and Change." Back in the late 70s. As to the music discussion - my response is 'meh.' I figure I'm not supposed to understand the music of today any more than my dad is supposed to understand the music I like. Alot of this discussion just kind of sounds like "kids today! what is it with them and their rock and roll/acid trip/punk rock/alt rock/heavy metal/rap/hip hop/jazz/whatever music! It's pure noise I tell you!" I do think it's a bit disingenous, however, for followers of any muscial style (punk, heavy metal, rap or hip hop), that's known for (and predicated upon) being "anti establishment" and somewhat angry to get upset when people treat them like they might be dangerous. Because, well, that's kind of the look that they are trying to cultivate. But, last time I heard any stats on numbers of 'incidents' at rap concerts vs. any other type of concerts, I don't recall there being any huge difference. If anyone has any stats on the subject, please share.

Author

kate

Date

2005-03-28T17:12:55-06:00

ID

69820

Comment

Chuck Berry -- My Ding---a---Ling and Elvis the Pelvis (1950s) Jimi Hendrix -- Purple Haze (sounds like a song about an acid trip) and the "Bad Boys Band" (so to speak) Rolling Stones (1960s) Eric Clapton, a highly respected figure today --- Cocaine (If ya wanna hang out, ya gotta take a bout...COCAINE) (1970s) Various rap musicians singing about the hell of inner city life AND the "Satanist" Motley Crue and Judas Priest (1980s) Anybody get the picture????

Author

Philip

Date

2005-03-28T22:12:20-06:00

ID

69821

Comment

The bit at the Source Awards a couple of years ago, the shooting deaths of Biggie and Tupac, etc. contributed more to rap's violent image than anything else, I think. NWA and Public Enemy never scared me; they seemed like basically nice guys. But gangsta rap definitely has a tough guy aesthetic. Fans think 50 got shot nine times, whoa, he must be tough; I think 50 got shot nine times, whoa, he should move to the Hamptons. But diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. Personally, I'd trust the gangsta rap aesthetic over the outlaw aesthetic any day; Suge Knight might be a fearsome figure, but I'm pretty sure he never shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. That's just cold. The worst part of gangsta rap for me isn't usually the violence; it's the misogyny. When Jay-Z rapped "ladies is pimps too," I saw it as a huge blow for feminism. This is particularly telling because in most contexts, a guy calling a woman a pimp is not considered a huge blow for feminism. Gangsta rap is one of the last credible outposts of machismo. I don't have any business writing scrips for a style of music I don't listen to, but since you asked (or I pretended you did), I think we need a new generation of badass women who can humble the gangsta rap aesthetic--500 more rappers like Eve, Da Brat, and Missy Elliott, who can put an end to this "bitch" and "ho" business, in part by explaining that talk like that won't help anybody's chances of getting laid--and given the choice between getting shot nine times and getting laid, well, where's the dilemma? But gangsta rap isn't even close to being the only kind of rap. Rap is a pretty diverse genre. What I like (in small doses, I'll admit) is the musical, almost cantorial reggae-influenced rap of Wyclef Jean, Bounty Killer, Lady Saw, etc. I think this stuff is on the verge of exploding, and in ten years everybody will be listening to it instead of gangsta because it's so fresh, and so innovative, and allows so many new possibilities. With vocal rap it's all about words and meter and inflection, but with island rap you add in notes without sacrificing words and meter and inflection. But then I thought P.M. Dawn would be the next hot thing, too, and I expected Eminem to be a one-hot novelty act, so don't listen to me. Never heard any of Kamikaze's stuff, but if he's a local I suspect I'll get the chance. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-03-28T23:46:05-06:00

ID

69822

Comment

The bit at the Source Awards a couple of years ago, the shooting deaths of Biggie and Tupac, etc. contributed more to rap's violent image than anything else, I think. NWA and Public Enemy never scared me; they seemed like basically nice guys. But gangsta rap definitely has a tough guy aesthetic. Fans think 50 got shot nine times, whoa, he must be tough; I think 50 got shot nine times, whoa, he should move to the Hamptons. But diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. Personally, I'd trust the gangsta rap aesthetic over the outlaw aesthetic any day; Suge Knight might be a fearsome figure, but I'm pretty sure he never shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. That's just cold. The worst part of gangsta rap for me isn't usually the violence; it's the misogyny. When Jay-Z rapped "ladies is pimps too," I saw it as a huge blow for feminism. This is particularly telling because in most contexts, a guy calling a woman a pimp is not considered a huge blow for feminism. Gangsta rap is one of the last credible outposts of machismo. I don't have any business writing scrips for a style of music I don't listen to, but since you asked (or I pretended you did), I think we need a new generation of badass women who can humble the gangsta rap aesthetic--500 more rappers like Eve, Da Brat, and Missy Elliott, who can put an end to this "bitch" and "ho" business, in part by explaining that talk like that won't help anybody's chances of getting laid--and given the choice between getting shot nine times and getting laid, well, where's the dilemma? But gangsta rap isn't even close to being the only kind of rap. Rap is a pretty diverse genre. What I like (in small doses, I'll admit) is the musical, almost cantorial reggae-influenced rap of Wyclef Jean, Bounty Killer, Lady Saw, etc. I think this stuff is on the verge of exploding, and in ten years everybody will be listening to it instead of gangsta because it's so fresh, and so innovative, and allows so many new possibilities. With vocal rap it's all about words and meter and inflection, but with island rap you add in notes without sacrificing words and meter and inflection. But then I thought P.M. Dawn would be the next hot thing, too, and I expected Eminem to be a one-hit novelty act, so don't listen to me. Never heard any of Kamikaze's stuff, but if he's a local I suspect I'll get the chance. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-03-28T23:46:15-06:00

ID

69823

Comment

Suge Knight might be a fearsome figure, but I'm pretty sure he never shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. That's just cold. LMAO. You rock, Tom. Totally agreed about the misogyny being worse than the violence in gangsta rap. I can, at least, understand why many of the violent lyrics are there -- a reflection of what's happening TO THEM, in many cases, or that they fear will. But the misogyny seems to be more a reflection of what young black males themselves may be doing to women, and that's harder to justify. Of course, it's 3 a.m., so none of that may make a rat's a$$ bit of sense. Also, I must admit that Eminem grew on me, that little rat bastard.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-29T03:02:50-06:00

ID

69824

Comment

So, why not tell us? Is there a "hip-hop agenda" that I'm missing and how does it benefit me and our society as a whole? I consider myself on the cusp of hip hop..lol..I'm 46. but my first love of music is funk, soul, r&b and blues. but my son is deep into the hip hop stuff and from what I gather from him is hip hop is a culture that wants to be accepted and integrated into society and not frowned upon and harrassed, basically. Being accepted and intergrated has already happend if you ask me. just turn on your TV. So that's not the problem. the problem lies in the harrassement and shunning mostly, I guess. As far as benefiting society, I think it's a great outlet for those kids who want a nice hobbie or for those who choose it as a career because it's obvious that it pays well if you got talent.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-29T08:28:00-06:00

ID

69825

Comment

The civil rights era has been hands off in our schools for so long, most of our youth have no idea what went on during that time. I know that's true, because I've talked about things that happened then, which were huge historically and newswise, and my sons have not known what I was talking about. That's because you didn't teach them. My kids know about it very well because I stay in their face about who they are and where they came from. I never put the total responsibilty on the JPS to teach my kids what I should be teaching them when they aren't in school. School is just a glorified day care which, in most cases, kids learn more about each other's anatomy(on their own) more than they learn about the Civil Rights movement. The Civil Rights movement wasn't even taught when I was in school so I KNOW they ain't teaching it today. So it's not a generation "gap" it's a generation "lax" and the lax is on the parents who dropped the ball.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-29T10:20:14-06:00

ID

69826

Comment

LADD/TOM HEAD: "Suge Knight might be a fearsome figure, but I'm pretty sure he never shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. That's just cold." That memorable line from Johnny Cash's "Folsom Prison Blues" is entirely fiction: Cash made it up. Suge Knight is a real-life felon who has been repeatedly convicted of violent crimes. Just wanted to make sure that was clear.

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-03-29T11:09:14-06:00

ID

69827

Comment

After pondering this for about 20 mins. or so, I realized that hip hop really doesn't have an agenda. It's just more a culture for young kids who prefer booming systems over smooth jazz.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-29T11:19:43-06:00

ID

69828

Comment

Buck, I hear that train a'comin, it's comin' round the bend. But Johnny Cash would be the first to say that Wild West archetypes played a major role in his music. Most rap is also fictional, though I'm also aware of the fact that Suge Knight is a producer rather than a rapper. Don't be so dadburned literal. I just finished a chapter in my American criminal justice history on the late-19th century Western frontier. All these ballads and tall tales and gushing portraits of prolific murderers like Jesse James and John Wesley Hardin and Billy the Kid. Trust me, gangsta rap has nothing on the outlaw aesthetic. These fellas really would have shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. A few probably did. And yet folks sang (sometimes still sing) ballads about what wonderful people they were, and how cowardly the lawmen were for chasing them down. Reading the way the newspapers fawned over these guys at the time, it's just plain unreal. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-03-29T14:07:15-06:00

ID

69829

Comment

IMHO the CR leaders of the sixties should not "hand over the reins" to the younger crowd. The young folks should be in charge when they are strong enough -- and mad enough -- to TAKE charge! Not a minute sooner!

Author

Iron

Date

2005-03-29T23:30:25-06:00

ID

69830

Comment

Iron, I sort of see your point. But, "handing over" makes for better transition. It's called "training your own replacement." Power transfers generally work better when the old leaders take the time to mentor and groom their replacements. Not when they refuse to listen to new ideas, refuse to share power, and view change as a bad thing. Holds true in any business, committee, enterprise or other group. This is no exception.

Author

kate

Date

2005-03-30T09:29:08-06:00

ID

69831

Comment

I think you're both right. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-03-30T10:13:27-06:00

ID

69832

Comment

I think they're both right, too. Replacements have to be groomed, but they also have to demonstrate in some way that they're ready to take over the responsibility involved. Best, Tim

Author

Tim Kynerd

Date

2005-03-30T10:42:55-06:00

ID

69833

Comment

Iron, I sort of see your point. But, "handing over" makes for better transition. It's called "training your own replacement." Power transfers generally work better when the old leaders take the time to mentor and groom their replacements. Not when they refuse to listen to new ideas, refuse to share power, and view change as a bad thing. Holds true in any business, committee, enterprise or other group. This is no exception. no. I disagree. those younger generation people who want to see change need to WORK to get into those positions and THEN make the changes neccessary or at least fight for them. "handing over" the power has been happening in Mississippi for the last 100 years and it's gotten us nowhere but dead last in economics, livability and progress. Not to mention is a poor excuse for a cop out. What Jackson and Mississippi(as a whole) needs is leaders who won't get in office and squat to get a check, like they've been doing all these years. and bitching about a dress code is not an agenda item that I don't want Jackson's future politicians to focus on. They want the baton but ain't running fast/hard enough to come grab it if you ask me. all the babysitting has got to stop in Mississippi.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-30T11:47:00-06:00

ID

69834

Comment

"Not when they refuse to listen to new ideas, refuse to share power, and view change as a bad thing. " This is exactly what the old guard was doing in the fifties and sixties. "Go slow" was almost a mantra (until Nina Simone got hold of the phrase, anyway!) The "New" music was offensive to the old folks of all colors and the dress was completely unacceptable. Political has never, and will never be "Handed over". It was not back then and it won't be now!

Author

Iron

Date

2005-03-30T12:42:27-06:00

ID

69835

Comment

That should have been "Political Power"! Mea Culpa!

Author

Iron

Date

2005-03-30T12:45:00-06:00

ID

69836

Comment

I'm just saying, in a more perfect world, leaders of all stripes would be savvy enough to work *with* the next generation. Young ones get the benefit of their experience, old ones get the benefit of new ideas, new energy and some idealistic outrage. There doesn't have to be a generation gap/generational battle, and things work better when all parties realize that. Doesn't happen very often, but when it does happen, it's an amazing thing. And, both sides need to approach the other with some openness, in order for it to work. Just throwing it out there. May not work in the situation as it stands now, but it seems like deciding that it's "never" going to work is blocking the possibility that it ever will. Which means everyone misses out.

Author

kate

Date

2005-03-30T15:48:00-06:00

ID

69837

Comment

"in a more perfect world, leaders of all stripes would be savvy enough to work *with* the next generation. " In theory you are right, of course -- but, in practice the Leaders of The Old Guard expect the young to work *with* them out of respect and because they have "Paid their Dues" in getting to where they are. The argument is pointless. A leader is "one who is followed" so a person of whatever age becomes a leader by developing a following. Take your thought to the streets! When your name and your face become synonymous with ideas for a better future -- you will be recognized as a leader even if no one ever "passed the torch" to you.

Author

Iron

Date

2005-03-30T16:00:03-06:00

ID

69838

Comment

I don't know if I agree totally with all the points. I do know that and have learned that paying attention to detail helps to iron out the big things in the end. Sweat the small stuff!!!! It's those little things like a "dress code" BM that snowball into the bigger things. It goes hand in hand with the mental conditioning that black folk receive in this state. The subliminal "jim crow" as it were. ...But I do think Iron is correct when your name and face become known as someone that speaks out and works for change you will get followers and THEN you may be seen as a leader. If the reigns will not be passed over willingly then TAKE 'EM!!!! Kamikaze seems to be taking the reigns for this younger generation.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-03-31T10:16:56-06:00

ID

69839

Comment

Kamikaze seems to be taking the reigns for this younger generation. Then he should be running for mayor as well and stop trying to rap his way into the city council.

Author

Black Man

Date

2005-03-31T10:25:35-06:00

ID

69840

Comment

Don't sell Kamikaze short, Black Man. There are many ways to get people's attention: passionate truth, lying, spreading rumors, building false perceptions, fearmongering -- and writing or singing or rapping about things they care about. Don't forget: even Frank Melton (whom I know you dislike) started out as a journalist, of a fashion

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2005-03-31T10:46:16-06:00

ID

69841

Comment

it's ok Ladd. It's apparent the brother has his view and isn't willing to change it. Which is cool. that's America. Many of my colleagues have similar views. Many of them are bitter. Perhaps the good fight has drained them, I dunno. But as I tell them, its easy to sit back and criticize or judge instead of actually immersing oneself into the fray. Don't be an armchair quarterback. For all his greatness, no one wants to see Jerry rice trying to run routes on a football field in his 70's. By the same token I personally don't wanna still see Jesse Jackson, or Al Sharpton, or any of our Leaders today still trying call press conferences in their 70's either. Let Kamikaze and those like him have they're say. they can't do any worse than we did. That's all I'm saying.

Author

trusip

Date

2005-04-01T10:34:56-06:00

ID

69842

Comment

Trusip: See http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/comments.php?id=P5272_0_7_0_C

Author

buckallred

Date

2005-04-01T10:58:25-06:00

ID

69843

Comment

I don't see any reason why Jackson and Sharpton can't keep calling press conferences well into their seventies, or really even later as long as their minds remain nimble and their senses remain intact. The retired Episcopal bishop of Mississippi is pushing 80, and preaches better than he did when he was 40. Bob Dole won an intense Republican primary season in 1996 at age 76, and gave Clinton a run for his money. John Paul Stevens, the most quick-witted of the current Supreme Court justices, is hearing cases and writing majority opinions at 84. Philosopher Charles Hartshorne wrote his best-known work, Omnipotence and Other Theological Mistakes, when he was 89 (he lived to be 103, and gave a lengthy interview to Time magazine during the final months of his life that demonstrated that his faculties were all still there). Jewish philosopher Mordecai Kaplan lived to be 102, and was still a major figure in the Reconstructionist Judaism movement well into his 90s. I could go on. Now, if you play professional sports, you're over the hill at 30 or 35--but that's one of the hazards of playing professional sports: you're in for a very short career. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-04-01T12:00:38-06:00