Jackson Free Press

It's true: NFL teams hold their cheerleaders to a higher standard of behavior than their players. The Smoking Gun updates Doctor S' favorite NFL story of the week with a report that the Carolina Panthers have suspended a third cheerleader, Kristen Thomas (right) in the wake of Sunday's sordid incident in a Tampa bar that led to the arrest of two pro cheerleaders. The third cheerleader wasn't present at Banana Joe's, but her driver's license was. TSG also points out the hypocrisy of the NFL. Numerous NFL players have been charged with felonies and allowed to continue playing. But these women have been denied an opportunity to keep shaking their pom-poms in the land of "presumed innocent until proven guilty."

Previous Comments

ID

118183

Comment

Let those fine ladies go back to work. The game wouldn't be a good game without them.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-08T17:23:37-06:00

ID

118184

Comment

I meant "fine" in the sense that they were apparently good cheerleaders (haven't heard any complaints about their cheerleading skills) prior to the off-the-filed incident. I din't mean to objectify those nice ladies. If the boys can be forgiven for much worse conduct so should the women. Fair is fair!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-08T17:35:39-06:00

ID

118185

Comment

The more interesting question, to me, is why the cheerleaders were having sex in a public restroom in the first place, and why they got violent when folks called them on it. My suspicion, judging only from the police report, is that this was done with the expectation that everyone would think this was all so awesome because they were living the first ten minutes of Femme Fatale, and they ignored the more pressing concern that people had to friggin' pee and they were tying up the stall. I mean, no offense, but I buy these people as a lesbian couple about as much as I buy into the idea that all of the very stylized girl-on-girl kissing that has shown up in various media outlets lately isn't more about tantalizing men than opening up anybody's mind. They're cheerleaders. Their sex appeal, or at least the feeling that they're supposed to have this massive sex appeal (I've never really gotten the whole cheerleader thing), gives them the kind of power that most of us can only dream of. Now, I do agree with Ray's point. It does bother me that there isn't equal treatment for cheerleaders and athletes. Presumably if two football players were having sex in a bar restroom, then caused a scene afterwards, they would not be fired. And it's not right that cheerleaders be treated as second-class talent. They should also probably be paid a lot more than they are, given what the male performers make. But let's get real here: They were apparently acting like real jerks, and if the women in question were 350-pound waitresses instead of 120-pound NFL cheerleaders, our reaction would be "Ewww." And I think our reaction should still be "Ewww." Not because they were having sex--sex is all well and good--but because they were interfering with people's God-given right to empty their bladders, then got all violent and belligerent about it afterwards. There's nothing sexy about that! Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-11-09T01:34:06-06:00

ID

118186

Comment

I think they also fired a third girl who wasn't even involved in the incident but whose driver license had been obtained and used by one of the wrongdoers. Why fire the girl that wasn't involved? I certainly hope she gets her job back. Tom, wouldn't they have to be lesbians in order to engage in lesbian conduct? I'm yet to hear facts that they were blindly drunk or drugged out of their mind although I doubt alcohol or drugs can make you forget your sexual preference. Nor have I heard any facts that they were pretending to be girls gone wild for money or attention. Isn't it possible that they were craving each other and for whatever reason had great difficulty waiting until later? What's 15 minutes for allowing 2 people to make themselves nicer people? People do this all the time. While an insurance employee many years ago, I had two separate cases where a male and female got body parts bitten off as the car they were riding in hit rought spots in the road. Both eventually filed claim on their parents' insurance for accidental injuries due to a car accident. We were nice and paid the medical bills. Most of these stupid incidences involve young people. Thank God most of us grow up.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T09:00:05-06:00

ID

118187

Comment

The fact that they fired her a day later leads me to suspect that there was more to the driver's license thing than meets the eye. You may be right about the unbridled passion business, but since they're NFL cheerleaders, it was a public place, and they got violent afterwards, color me skeptical. Gut feeling is that they were being exhibitionistic, narcissistic, et. al. I used to know an exhibitionistic college-age woman who did this kind of thing once, so it rings alarm bells for me. Re sexual orientation: I tend to agree with Alfred Kinsey's hypothesis that there are few, if any, completely straight straights or completely gay gays. I don't know that there's anyone reading this who, under the right circumstances, wouldn't ever be capable of batting for the other team. Male and female bodies are simply too similar to completely remove the possibility. And if they're exhibitionists, they certanly don't actually have to be drawn to each other to find the whole thing thrilling. But even if we assume for a moment that they are lesbians living in a committed relationship and just had a wild moment of completely irresistable, un-postponable passion (which has never happened to me, but let's say for the sake of argument that they did), it still doesn't really excuse going around slugging people. I mean, my rule of thumb is: Let's switch the genders. Let's remember what happened to poor George Michael, and he didn't even punch anybody! Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-11-09T10:05:45-06:00

ID

118188

Comment

I would like to point out that these women are victims of being part-time cheerleaders. One of the women is a student at UNCC and the other is a nurse. They are being vilified because they are cheerleaders. But, since they were not cheering at the game in an official capacity for the Panthers, they are being unfairly punished because they are cheerleaders. If it was a student and a nurse in the restroom together who then punched the other lady; you wouldn't have a story or any punishment besides the fine from hitting another person. We are falling into the trap the news and society wants us to by focusing on the fact they wear skimpy outfits and cheer for the NFL on weekends. But, the truth is they are so much more then that (student / nurse), and it is sad to see them objectified for an incident that occurs nightly in clubs across the US. It is also sad to see us focus on the fact they are cheerleaders, and thus spurring the issues around being a cheerleader (or lesbian for that matter) instead of the actual incident which should have never seen the light of day in the media.

Author

pikersam

Date

2005-11-09T11:10:24-06:00

ID

118189

Comment

Well said Pikersam.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T11:17:12-06:00

ID

118190

Comment

Thanks Ray! This story definitely has more legs then it should. ;-)

Author

pikersam

Date

2005-11-09T11:39:51-06:00

ID

118191

Comment

Speaking of legs, although I'm ashamed to admit it, I probably wouldn't enjoy a live game as much without the cheerleaders. If fine and attractive cheerleaders weren't vital and indispensable to sports entertaiment, why does every team have them?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T11:50:32-06:00

ID

118192

Comment

I think I'm more disturbed by the fact Tom doesn't get cheerleaders rather than Tom is a liberal. :D Seriously, if the NFL lets this stand it's rank hipocracy.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2005-11-09T11:55:20-06:00

ID

118193

Comment

It's now being reported by the lawyer for one of the girls that a third woman was in the bathroom and says the women were not having sex. We all know, if a lawyer said it, it's true. Because of the necessity for the girls to stay thin in order to keep their jobs, they could have been trying to sneak and eat an ice cream sandwich or hamburger out of the view of the demanding public.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T13:11:44-06:00

ID

118194

Comment

Does any of this fit into the Hooters/Wifebeaters/Working-Poor/Get-a sense-of-humor thread over here? Think about it: ...these women are victims of being part-time cheerleaders. ...then punched the other lady; you wouldn't have a story or any punishment besides the fine... ...they are so much more then that (student / nurse), and it is sad to see them objectified...

Author

Rex

Date

2005-11-09T13:25:39-06:00

ID

118195

Comment

And if three are in one stall and it's not sex... what exactly WERE they doing? I don't think they can all fit on the same throne, so were they simply watching each other? (And I think our reaction should still be "Ewww." --Tom Head) Or my own mind seems to harken back to the 70s and 80s habit of crowds in stalls for recreational nose nosepowdering...

Author

Rex

Date

2005-11-09T13:29:46-06:00

ID

118196

Comment

I think Karl Rove trumped this up to detract from the TO saga in Philly! ;-)

Author

pikersam

Date

2005-11-09T14:00:11-06:00

ID

118197

Comment

Two of them were in the stall together. The third had let the underage one use her driver's license to get in. She was not there. She was probably charged with contributing to the deliquency of a minor. A very normal charge for someone who gives their ID to an underage kid so they can get into a bar.

Author

Lori G

Date

2005-11-09T14:10:56-06:00

ID

118198

Comment

And if three are in one stall and it's not sex... what exactly WERE they doing?... Because of the necessity for the girls to stay thin in order to keep their jobs, they could have been trying to sneak and eat an ice cream sandwich or hamburger out of the view of the demanding public.M Maybe they were throwing up the ice cream sandwich they had eaten earlier.

Author

Lori G

Date

2005-11-09T14:12:17-06:00

ID

118199

Comment

Now I understand, Ali. I would have fired the third one for doing that.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T14:22:02-06:00

ID

118200

Comment

Granted, she shouldn't have contributed to the deliquency of a minor. But, again we have a double standard situation. The proliferation of younger players in Pro sports means more underage players aged 18 - 20. And, I'll bet that many of them get into clubs and bars with their older teammates. Without ID check at that! Just like we did in college! So, if the Panthers want to fire the ladies for some "off-time" recreation gone bad, then I hope they take the NFL to court and protest loudly against every athlete that ends up into some kind of trouble. Last I checked, all the Viking players on that "sex boat" are still playing on Sundays - well those who aren't hurt!

Author

pikersam

Date

2005-11-09T14:38:56-06:00

ID

118201

Comment

With Ali's information informing us that the third girl allowed the underage girl to use her ID to gain entry to the club, isn't it likely that both adults knew and conspired to help the underage girl illegally gain entry into the club. Once in the club the adult and mior were too stupid to quietly do whatever they were doing without causing a fight. Now, I think all three should have been fired. Not for stupidly doing whatever they were doing but for involving a minor in it. The team had to fire them to maintain or feign any credibility.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T14:39:45-06:00

ID

118202

Comment

on second thought, Michael Jordan wouldn't have been fired for letting a rookie use his ID to get into a club and commit a similar harmless indiscretion. Those cheerleaders need to learn how to score basket, catch touchdowns or hit a 100 mile fast ball. Then they would have equity.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T14:49:14-06:00

ID

118203

Comment

Well, to expand and turn around our argument... What about how we turn a blind eye to underage Paris Hilton's or Lindsey Lohan's of the world as they party hard at the star studded clubs of New York and Hollywood?!? So, if you can act, sing or play sports, you can get away with murder (sorry OJ). But, if you entertain the same fans as a cheerleader (who are really only known "by name" to the 15 year old male fans of a team - come on everyone name your favorite Saintsation!) then you are held to some kind of uber-standard of conduct. Ladies, "You know who to call!" "One-call that's all!" ;-)

Author

pikersam

Date

2005-11-09T15:16:38-06:00

ID

118204

Comment

Ray writes: Those cheerleaders need to learn how to score basket, catch touchdowns or hit a 100 mile fast ball. Then they would have equity. Sure, as long as Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, and Cal Ripkin Jr. (sorry for the outdated references; not much of a sports guy) had to learn how to do cheers, dance around in a crop top and miniskirt, etc. Let's get real here: Sports is not about being the best, because being the best doesn't make money. Bringing in viewers makes money. If individual cheerleaders are integral to that process, if individual announcers are integral to that process, then they need to be treated on par with the athletes themselves. As for the rest, pikersam's post is well-taken. I didn't realize they were part-timers, which does change things. I do think that if two people of either gender tie up a restroom stall, then come out swinging, that's churlish behavior. I mean, maybe people do it all the time in bars (I don't go to bars partly because I expect that sort of thing happens all the time), but for me this isn't so much "Girls Gone Wild" as "Drunks Behaving Badly." Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-11-09T15:20:55-06:00

ID

118205

Comment

pikersam, completely agreed. Regardless of the facts of the case, I don't understand why this is really newsworthy. No slam on Dr. S; it's an interesting story and all. But why did it make the wires? Because of the implied sex, I guess. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2005-11-09T15:23:33-06:00

ID

118206

Comment

Thanks Tom... And agreed it is churlish behavior on their part as two (or three) women in a bar. However, I hope the NFL and Panthers (and the one lady's hospital) come to their senses before they get the pants sued off of them. This could shape up to be a good case for the fuzzy definition of "work and play" that some businesses use. You know that whole "you are representing the company when you are on your own time..." type BS that so many managers put into their corporate employee manuals. My guess is that these cheerleaders are told the same thing... Oh wait, I got a good example... Like how sorority girls can't wear their "letters" in a bar or place of ill repute!

Author

pikersam

Date

2005-11-09T15:39:55-06:00

ID

118207

Comment

Pikersam, you must remember those NFL teams have excellent and brillant lawyers telling them what they can and can't do. I bet the team was well advised on the law before hiring and firing the cheerleaders. Additionally, I bet the girls prefer the matter just go away so they can resume their anonymity or unknown existence. I roughly compare this situation to the "loss of consotium" claim that one spouse can make when the other one has been injured and allegedly can not provide love, support, intimacy, or affection like before the injury. We used to tell the spouses/plaintiffs that in order to assess the value of this valid claim, we needed to know exactly and with specific details what they used to do that they can't any longer do. I didn't have a single spouse to continue the claim after this. We almost got in a fight a few times, however.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2005-11-09T16:28:13-06:00

ID

118208

Comment

Ray, no doubt on the lawyers! Heck, NC might be a "right to work" state like MS? But, the difference in discipline by their employer between the athletes and the cheerleaders for an incident that occurs ìall too regularlyî with the men is the real issue... I was just expanding my point so that I could keep coming back this page. It's not everyday you get to see women in cheerleading outfits on the JFP website! ;-) I think it has been refreshing to have some dialog about the issue without some nitwit posting, ìIíd HIT it!î every other post! ÖAnd no I wouldnít!

Author

pikersam

Date

2005-11-09T18:57:52-06:00

ID

118209

Comment

Okay, that Karl Rove/Terrell Owens post is the funniest thing I've read today. Thanks :) It's been brought to my attention that these ladies make $25-50 per game. That's what I was told anyway.

Author

emilyb

Date

2005-11-10T19:52:53-06:00