I've been intrigued reading some of the posts on the JFP Web site in response to the New York Times story "Plight Worsens for Black Men." Although I didn't need the Times to point out the obvious, folk should know the trials of one of America's true endangered species. Between death and jail, we're losing black men by the thousands daily. The vicious cycle of poverty-to-crime-to-incarceration has got some black kids feeling like the proverbial hamster on a treadmill. Society offers plenty of condemnation followed by conversation, but often does little in the way of solutions.
Unfortunately, even those that do rise above squalor do not fare much better. Even the decreasing number of black men entering four-year institutions have found that a diploma doesn't necessarily equal success. We are a society that does not always celebrate its best and its brightest. Instead, some idolize those with a wicked jump shot or a hot rhyme. We love the cast of that new sitcom or the next movie star. We're awestruck by fame.
That's why it was so refreshing for me to be in the presence of real greatness recently. I was honored to be a guest juror at the Magnolia Bar Association mock trial competition (won by Greenville West High School). Some of the best students from across the state put on an excellent display of legal prowess at the Hinds County Court House as they argued staged cases before Judge Winston Kidd. Had there been a basketball involved, there would have been 2,000 rabid fans clamoring to get inside. If this was a concert, there would have been hundreds of screaming kids outside trying to push their way to the front of the line. The media would have lined their trucks up outside hoping to get an interview with the next NBA star or rap millionaire.
Alas, there were no cameras inside or outside the courtroom. No eager spectators, just the students representing their schools and a few parents. No writers and no vendors outside selling t-shirts plastered with the faces of the students inside.
At that moment, it became clear to me—we've got our priorities screwed up! But despite our apathy, those kids gave their all to the competition. I saw several kids who have a bright future in law, one that could make them as rich as any athlete or hip-hop star. There are plenty more where they come from, I'm sure. But too often young kids get a bad rap. Those who don't only get overshadowed by their school's best athletes.
Maybe this is why most of the kids I meet think that the only way they can make it out of the "hood" is through sports or music. Professional sports are hard to break into, and Lord knows we've got enough rappers! If we want the plight of black men to get better—hell, the plight of black kids, period—our society needs to start nurturing those who excel academically more than we do now. But sadly, that may be a tall task for a state where "coaches" at Division 1 schools make double, sometimes triple what middle and high school instructors make teaching students. And you wonder how our kids get messed up.
And that's the truth...sho-nuff.
Previous Comments
- ID
- 71947
- Comment
And that IS the truth...sho-nuff. 'Nuff Said.
- Author
- trusip
- Date
- 2006-04-05T15:19:28-06:00
- ID
- 71948
- Comment
Kamikaze, hands down my favorite column of yours this year. There is nothing but truth here. If we want better we have to excel for better. That is so true. Man, you nailed this one.
- Author
- c a webb
- Date
- 2006-04-05T16:28:20-06:00
- ID
- 71949
- Comment
The glass is half full. It's all relative to what's real.
- Author
- JSU
- Date
- 2006-04-05T16:38:35-06:00
- ID
- 71950
- Comment
Huh? I allllmost get that..please explain.
- Author
- trusip
- Date
- 2006-04-06T09:43:50-06:00
- ID
- 71951
- Comment
Kamikaze, with this article you just showed us a Rapper with depth and insight, and a Rapper man enough to put the truth above his his craft. I wish you could get this published in lots of other magazines, too. I wonder how a rap song with this message would sell? Since you referenced the "Plight of Black Men", let me tell you and others that I met my first client yesterday who calls himself a Rap Producer. If I represent him, he's in jail for Capital Murder and facing the death penalty. I was amazed by how smart he was. He's as sharp as any college educated person although he dropped out of school in the 10th grade. He wouldn't even discuss his father though he discussed other things without hesitation. He has opened for Three 6 Mafia and has met your buddy David Banner. I asked if he has met you and he said not yet. There doen't seem to be any eveidence of quilt against him, and certainly not any scientific proof. But he's hated by the powers that be in his locality for past criminal conduct and overall bellligerence. If you think "Death Row" and "Murder, Inc." are telling record labels, I won't even tell you what his is called. And I hope the authorities don't learn of it and use it at his trial. I hope he's innocent and I can save him, but I'm in the business of trying to save the guilty, too. Judging from how happy he was to see me, I could tell it is hard in jail for a pimp, too. Once I save him, I'm hopeful he will record a hit record called "Real Gansters Fight the Guvment" or maybe "You ain't Pimping unless you're an Anti-Death Penalty Lawyer." Smile. I'll let everyone know how this case turns out.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-06T10:15:04-06:00
- ID
- 71952
- Comment
Ray, I agree with you. When I first interviewed Kamikaze in 2004, I could tell from the very beginning how level-headed and thoughtful he is. He is a professional. I think one point I got from his article is that all rappers or those involved in the music industry have to treat themselves as professionals. And one of the trademarks of a professional is that they think about the impression they give to others. Say what you want about Kamikaze, he definitely keeps his audience in mind, no matter if he is on stage or just visiting schools. There are few people in any field that you find that are as resolute as he is. We don't say that enough. I know I don't. This article shows us that we should.
- Author
- c a webb
- Date
- 2006-04-06T12:14:21-06:00
- ID
- 71953
- Comment
Kudos Kaze...again another thoughtful and passionate peice. Personally, I commend all your articles, there has only been one that stirred me completely different than it stirred others and that was the one on the use of steroids. However, I still found it to be precise and interesting. I think this problem comes in with generational gaps. You see our children bring children into this world while they are still children. If they have not yet learned life's lessons, they can not teach them to their children. There is a young lady the stays in my neighborhood who is clearly a child herself. She lives with her mother who must be about my age. The mother has at two children under the age of 7 and she has one child that is not even 2. See this pattern. Now, my point, in relation to your article is...the mother was a child when she had the daughter who now has continued the cycle by having - what else - another daughter. When I drive down their street, the young lady sits on the front porch with the music bumping all types of rap. I've even heard her playing some of Banner's songs. Everything from Yin Yang twins to T.I. At two years of age, her daughter is already accepting that as her lifestyle as well. Do you think she's gonna listen to gospel when all she's been exposed to is rap? And if her mother and grandmother didn't have any higher institutional experience, it is probably pretty certain that she will not either. And thus, when looking for a way to end the poverty that she is accustomed to where will she find an answer. She will do as her grandmother and try to focus on finding a man with potential to make their lives better since she can't do it herself. They aren't exposed to college educated men with potential. But there is a rapper with dreams and promises on every corner. There's a football star or a basketball star at every night club. And thus, the cycle continues.....
- Author
- Queen601
- Date
- 2006-04-06T13:29:45-06:00
- ID
- 71954
- Comment
This is a great article, Kamikaze, and it dovetails with some of the rants I've been making in the last few days at my dismay over the senseless violence that has become all to common with our young people throughout the country. We as a people are placing far too much emphasis on the people who entertain us over the people who advance us. I have no problem with a kid having dreams of being the next Michael Jordan or Allen Iverson, but the ones who dream of being the next Johnny Cochran or Jonas Salk should be uplifted as well. And young men and women who might have gone down a dark path but managed to turn their lives around to become positive forces in their families and communities should be praised, not forever demonized for their mistakes. I work in a field where there are few blacks (at least in this area) who are available to mentor kids on careers in science and engineering, but we are trying. The problem it appears to me is that so many black kids have lost hope trying to fit in with white society and their more priviliged counterparts and are embracing a culture that is almost guaranteed to expose them to the worst possible outcomes, and it's killing our community more effectively than the Ku Kluckers ever dreamt of.
- Author
- Jeff Lucas
- Date
- 2006-04-07T12:54:16-06:00
- ID
- 71955
- Comment
Ejeff, one of my best friends is a MIT graduate in electrical Engineering and he works for Goddard Space Center right outside Washington, D.C., with designing satellites. If you will arrange a visit for him I will have him come and talk to the kids. He will be here for 2 weeks in May and will come at other times if need be. He made straight A's in physics, math and calculus at Tougaloo before going to MIT. Most of all, he's a normal and caring person. Send me an email about this if interested.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-07T13:17:03-06:00
- ID
- 71956
- Comment
Kam- you nailed this one. If more students could be hailed for things like mock trial, chess team, knowledge bowl, who knows what difference that would make in their lives. If society put top teachers in the same pay range as top coaches, who knows it might inspire some of our best and brightest to enter the classroom with a different attitude. But the truth is, you don't sell tickets to watch good teachers make a difference. You've merely saved some lives along the way. And Kam- you left out that other ghetto dream- how to make that paper? Ball, rap or dope. Least the first 2 are legal. Wish kids knew, no, really believed they could make it out without having to do any of those things. Kudos on the article, maybe mock trial will have a bigger audience next year. Think we can get a popcorn vendor?
- Author
- urbangypsy
- Date
- 2006-04-07T13:35:06-06:00
- ID
- 71957
- Comment
The part that really hit home was the last paragraph. Our teachers here are horribly underpaid. And to me they are the backbone of our society. But more and more good ones are leaving the state to better pay. How is this not changed?? A school teacher in JPS has to damn near get a part-time job to live and a guy coaching quarterbacks at Ole Miss could possibly be making double her salary. Sad. We DO have ouor priorities f----d up Kam!!!!
- Author
- trusip
- Date
- 2006-04-07T15:45:47-06:00
- ID
- 71958
- Comment
The quarterback at Ole Miss would make more like 10 times her salary. Senator Johnnie Walls of Greenville used to tell me all the time that his biggest issue would be teacher's pay. Teachers are the beginning of nearly all learning but we treat them like they have little or no value.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-07T15:50:47-06:00
- ID
- 71959
- Comment
I meant coach at Ole Miss.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-07T15:51:56-06:00
- ID
- 71960
- Comment
The head coach would make 10 to 20 times her salary, and the quarterback coach would make 5 to 10 times her salary. Those X's and O's require great brillance to do it just right. Just think of the pride it brings to the school when your quarterback hits Terrel Owens in mid-stride. No English teacher can teach that.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-07T16:00:15-06:00
- ID
- 71961
- Comment
Trusip allow me to add to your point. Some of our teachers are underqualified and unenthused about educating students. Most of this issue as I see it is, goes back again to parenting issues. Teachers are afraid to become to involved in the students because of having to deal with parents with horrible understanding about raising children. It use to take a village to raise a child, now it's not like that. Teachers who really put in the time and effort that they should are constantly met with refusal and no cooperation from parents. Also, I don't know how previlant this issue is....but I know (personally) several teachers who can barely completely sentences themselves. They are not capable of teaching but because our state is so far behind in qualified teachers (due to the fact that the ones with creditials are not willing to be paid so little) our sons and daughters - especially in poverty strickened areas - are being passed along and never introduced to the VALUE of an education. They just go to school because they are sent there and that's where kids go.
- Author
- Queen601
- Date
- 2006-04-07T16:13:32-06:00
- ID
- 71962
- Comment
“ Some of our teachers are underqualified and unenthused about educating students. Teachers are afraid to become to involved in the students because of having to deal with parents with horrible understanding about raising children. Teachers who really put in the time and effort that they should are constantly met with refusal and no cooperation from parents. Also, I don't know how previlant this issue is....but I know (personally) several teachers who can barely completely sentences themselves. They are not capable of teaching but because our state is so far behind in qualified teachers (due to the fact that the ones with creditials are not willing to be paid so little) our sons and daughters - especially in poverty strickened areas - are being passed along and never introduced to the VALUE of an education. They just go to school because they are sent there and that's where kids go.” All of this is very prevalent and absolutely true!
- Author
- K RHODES
- Date
- 2006-04-07T17:45:29-06:00
- ID
- 71963
- Comment
Kamikaze: I have no idea who you are, or where you're coming from. However, I give you my advice, which is free, and probably worthless to you. Black "ghetto" culture endorses a sociopathological lifestyle which is guaranteed to fail. Have a baby as a teenager, drop out of school, never commit to marriage, have a baby without a husband in sight; in fact, have 3 or 4 babies without a husband, stay on welfare, collect Medicaid, don't work (because you have no skills), collect food stamps and TANF, and a HUD subsidy. Teach your children to do the same.
- Author
- HDMatthias, MD
- Date
- 2006-04-08T15:56:14-06:00
- ID
- 71964
- Comment
Black "ghetto" culture endorses a sociopathological lifestyle which is guaranteed to fail..........HDMatthias, MD I think that over the years that a part of society has magnified the plight of the black culture to direct our thought process toward this negative aspect. You will hear more positive things about black culture during February (Black History Month) than any other time of the year. This is not fair in that the black culture has more to offer than in just one month. Kamikaze gives us what we do not "see" until we are shown the truth in columns like this or in a movie that comes out every twenty years. And IMO, the fact that young blacks are trying to make changes within themselves other than sports and music is outstanding. It is one of the greatest accomplishments in life to know that someone is watching you and giving you support when you do something positive. I too have seen some educators that make you wonder how they became teachers. We have a lot of work to do here. Let's train-the-trainers, let's pay them their worth and not debate on three or four percent raises. You will never hear of a teacher getting a signing bonus or hear of us getting a highly recruited graduate to teach our kids. This (teachers and at home) is where everything starts. We have heard enough of what's wrong with black culture. We have heard enough of how much an athlete is making as a signing bonus. We have heard and seen enough about the violence. We have not seen enough of the positive side of the black culture. Thanks Kamikaze for doing this story.
- Author
- lance
- Date
- 2006-04-09T08:02:42-06:00
- ID
- 71965
- Comment
HDMatthias writes: However, I give you my advice, which is free, and probably worthless to you. Hey, Kamikaze and I have something in common; it's pretty worthless to me, too. My only advice to the man is that he release a folk album, but that's probably why I'm not in the music industry. I am all for offering and stumping for better career and financial avenues for INDIVIDUALS of any color, black, white, or otherwise. And I do it all the time, especially for my friends and family members. But every time I see a financially comfortable white person lecture "the black community" or "the ghetto community" or "the hip-hop generation," I break out in a rash. Such "advice" is not meant to be taken. It's a slur. Please don't insult your own intelligence or mine by suggesting that it's anything else. And please read this article. It might not cure what ails your white mind, but at least it'll tell you what my diagnosis is. See, I've got the same disease, but I've been able to keep some of the symptoms at bay. It's chronic, but it isn't terminal; just like with so many of these syndromes, there are good days and bad days. Personally, I would almost love it if Kamikaze lectured "the white community" sometime on its equally stereotypical self-absorption, blindness to privilege, and tendency to elect presidents whose rhetoric occasionally bears a disturbing resemblance to that of the Grand Ayatollah, but he's too smart for that. He knows it isn't that simple. Wish you did. Cheers, TH
- Author
- Tom Head
- Date
- 2006-04-09T09:41:07-06:00
- ID
- 71966
- Comment
I don't know why that link didn't load; perhaps there's more than one thing wrong with my particular white mind. Let's try it again. Cheers, TH
- Author
- Tom Head
- Date
- 2006-04-09T09:49:05-06:00
- ID
- 71967
- Comment
Mr. Head: Thanks for your responses. However, I'm still waiting to hear FACTS and STATISTICS about the gains of poverty-living black AND white folks in America. Their "life-style" leads only to more poverty, unmarried births, fatherless families, husband-less mothers, Medicaid, more Medicaid, HUD housing, uneducated young black men and women who are unable to enter the work force, drugs, prison, poverty, poverty, poverty, of both the mind and spirit. I am on the frontline. I see these children and mothers every day, and I weep for their futures. I see the children who have never been sung to, cuddled, moo-ed at, rocked, read-to, loved-at, tickled, etc. These children have no personal, neurological, or social stimulation. These children are more than lost by the time they "enter the system." And don't think that Headstart helps. Years of followups demonstrate that any gains made in Headstart are all "lost" by the third grade. So, tell me. How does "ghetto culture" help the ghetto? With respect, HDMatthias, MD
- Author
- HDMatthias, MD
- Date
- 2006-04-09T14:09:26-06:00
- ID
- 71968
- Comment
Dr. Matthias, Materialistic culture helps nobody. Selfishness helps nobody. Hedonism helps nobody. The difference is that the poor are always more affected by the negative results of same--both their own (when it's there), and the materialism, selfishness, and hedonism of the rich. Most ancient religions had a caste system of some kind; Judaism, which predates Buddhism by a century or two, was probably among the first not to. The people who came up with the caste system were not necessarily bad people. Just very civilized and refined, and convinced that it was the behavior of the ghetto culture that kept people in the ghetto. So they called those people shudra, and declared them untouchable; or they called them peasants, and declared the women among them to be fit spoils for the king. Beasts of the field. It's all very old rhetoric. Slaveowners, too, were part of this system. They didn't go "Oh, I know this is just another man, another woman, and I can make him/her work for free and isn't that great." They went "Those people can't take care of themselves, so clearly they need to be under us, and we should be their masters." The kindly slaveowner is a stereotype, but it is an entirely accurate stereotype. There were kindly slaveowners. Most slaveowners were probably kindly. By and large they had been raised to believe that they weren't doing anything wrong by owning slaves, that it was not oppressive to the slave or the master, and that the abolitionist rabble-rousers were just trying to stir up trouble. The poor always seem, to the well-off, to be less well-behaved. This is a pattern that has always been true and probably always will be true. But the problem is not "ghetto culture." The problem is raw poverty. But let's pretend for a moment that the problem was ghetto culture. Is this really how you'd solve it? Go around saying "pull your pants up, stop listening to that loud music, and be like us"? A more effective approach would be to say "wear whatever the hell you want, listen to whatever the hell you want, I'll be teaching GED prep classes on Tuesday night, please show up and let's work on getting that diploma." Because "be like me" is just plain bad evangelism. People don't want to be oppressed, to have their faces ground into the dirt until they submit and do exactly what you want in every area of their life, from sexual habits to music preferences. That's disempowering. Proactive work empowers. The article I sent you covers that well:
My schooling gave me no training in seeing myself as an oppressor, as an unfairly advantaged person, or as a participant in a damaged culture. I was taught to see myself as an individual whose moral state depended on her individual moral will. My schooling followed the pattern my colleague Elizabeth Minnich has pointed out: whites are taught to think of their lives as morally neutral, normative, and average, and also ideal, so that when we work to benefit others, this is seen as work that will allow "them" to be more like "us."
Personally, I think the ghetto is full of deeply moral people who listen to music you can't stand and wear clothes you think look ridiculous and call each other names you can't pronounce. And yeah, there are lots of people in the ghetto who don't do that--who, mostly because they were raised in the ghetto, don't have the support systems, internal or external, to deal with raising children, to deal with being good spouses. But the problem is not "ghetto culture." The problem is the ghetto. I question how much work you really have done with low-income folks if you think broadly condemning "ghetto culture" is an effective approach to anything. In ancient India, the vaisyas and kshatriyas threw their hands in the air and talked about "shudra culture" and "what those people do." The Hinduism of today, in post-Gandhi and post-Nehru India, no longer gives as much weight to caste distinction. Living under the forcible rule of the British cured them of that. I'd like to think that U.S. whites won't need to face quite so dramatic a situation in order to revise their thinking, but that's probably naive of me. Cheers, TH- Author
- Tom Head
- Date
- 2006-04-09T15:30:21-06:00
- ID
- 71969
- Comment
BTW- Dr. Matthias, I think Kamikaze's article describes exactly the sort of thing that needs to be done right now. I think that approach is very empowering and very effective. So I'm with him on this. I don't really know, frankly, what you thought your post was supposed to accomplish. But if you were trying to throw a slur out into the discussion that had no real bearing on the topic under discussion to derail it so that we white people are sitting here discussing "the blacks" instead of everyone having a sensible discussion on how to improve young people's lives, it looks like you've at least temporarily succeeded. I probably shouldn't have taken the bait. Cheers, TH
- Author
- Tom Head
- Date
- 2006-04-09T15:45:05-06:00
- ID
- 71970
- Comment
There is a saying to the effect: Please don't critize me until you have walked a mile in my shoes. I agree with Kamikaze's article about the positive side of the black culture. Dr Matthias you seem to be out of touch with the reality of the realness and closeness to home of Kamikaze's truths. As Tom said, materialistic culture helps no one. You must begin with the inner self and then work your way up using your trials and tribulations to lead you forward. I see a part of what you say that seems to be very sincere. However your overall comments remind me of a passage in the Bible concerning the rich man and the beggar. I respect your comments........but in no way do I think that you can see the forest for the trees.
- Author
- rufus
- Date
- 2006-04-09T17:33:09-06:00
- ID
- 71971
- Comment
Black "ghetto" culture endorses a sociopathological lifestyle which is guaranteed to fail. Have a baby as a teenager, drop out of school, never commit to marriage, have a baby without a husband in sight; in fact, have 3 or 4 babies without a husband, stay on welfare, collect Medicaid, don't work (because you have no skills), collect food stamps and TANF, and a HUD subsidy. Teach your children to do the same. For some reason, I feel nauseated. What's your diagnosis, Doctor? I have never seen so many broad stereotypes in my life. Has it been forgotten that most of the people in America on government assistance are Caucasian? The majority of the nation is Caucasian. A lot of folks seek help because they need it. There are people of all colors who have children out of wedlock, don't marry, etc., and regardless of what happened in the past, they need help NOW. Would you prefer for them to get Medicaid or clog up the ER for treatment? Would you rather for them to get a house through HUD or to live on the street? Would you rather for them to get food stamps or eat out of trash cans and have ketchup soup for dinner every night? Don't kick a man when he's down -do something to help him get off the ground. I am on the frontline. I see these children and mothers every day, and I weep for their futures. I see the children who have never been sung to, cuddled, moo-ed at, rocked, read-to, loved-at, tickled, etc. These children have no personal, neurological, or social stimulation. Where in the world are you working? If you at a free clinic, I commend you for that. However, that is a SUBSET of the black population, not the majority as some may have you to think. Many of us have health insurance as a result of EMPLOYMENT. Yes, we do work. However, some people have no choice but to get Medicaid because their jobs pay so little or health insurance is not offered. Ask any Wal-Mart employee. Do they teach diversity training in medical school? If not, they need to.
- Author
- LatashaWillis
- Date
- 2006-04-09T20:57:44-06:00
- ID
- 71972
- Comment
So, tell me. How does "ghetto culture" help the ghetto? For that matter, Doctor, how has redneck, white trash culture benefited themselves or society?
- Author
- Jeff Lucas
- Date
- 2006-04-09T21:06:00-06:00
- ID
- 71973
- Comment
Tom, I vote for you as Secretary of Education with L.W., Ejeff, Lance and Rufus as your top assistants. What brillant people you are. You can always tell when you hit the nail on the head - the wood stops moving.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-10T08:34:30-06:00
- ID
- 71974
- Comment
Good discussion. Methinks its a question of genetics vs. conditions. Although it was a comedy, the movie TRADING PLACES starring Eddie Murphy hit the issue right on the head for me. Funny how a comedy can inadvertently touch on a social truth. For the good Doctor, I feel your heart is in the right place and I get your point...barely. But it is coming from that same strereotypical, bigoted, point of view that black people are used to hearing. "Ghetto" is not a culture, it's a condition. A condition that doesnt afford those who live in it the same plethora of opprotunities that those in other class groups get. Whether they are white or black.
- Author
- trusip
- Date
- 2006-04-10T09:38:40-06:00
- ID
- 71975
- Comment
Thanks Ray, but I will only accept the position if you will be the special agent in charge of code enforcement. Dr Matthias hopefully will choose his words more carefully the next time he blogs on this site. I try very hard to read and re-read before I post on this site to see if I am getting my thought process across in a productive way. Most of the time I feel that I do this. If the good doctor has good motives, then mayby he will find a way to convey them to us. Lord knows I don't want you all on my case!
- Author
- lance
- Date
- 2006-04-10T10:27:12-06:00
- ID
- 71976
- Comment
Doc is a she, gentlemen. And although she can be smart on some issues, she is a vast stereotyper on others, offering opinions that clearly don't help anything.
- Author
- DonnaLadd
- Date
- 2006-04-10T10:59:46-06:00
- ID
- 71977
- Comment
Oops! Thanks Ladd. My apologies to the good doctor. I should be more attentive when I read and respond to blogs. However I still stand by my opinions. I do a lot of soul searching on some of the things that I write about because sometimes we may have good intentions, but our writings say differently. Dr Matthias I am not taking your side, just clarifying my opinions. You were given several responses by many different bloggers but you said nothing except more critical statements. If you really feel that you are right in your thinking, mayby you should talk to one of your collegues (psychologist).
- Author
- lance
- Date
- 2006-04-10T11:18:05-06:00
- ID
- 71978
- Comment
These children are more than lost by the time they "enter the system." And don't think that Headstart helps. Years of followups demonstrate that any gains made in Headstart are all "lost" by the third grade. ...With respect, HDMatthias, MD I used to clerk for a young (at the time), female Jewish judge 16 years ago. She was often insulted in her courtroom by white male attorneys who would almost always preface their remarks with, "with all due respect your honor". It is as though it is cover fire for the disrespectful thing about to be said. She started cutting them off and telling not to bother with the bull and just spit it out. She is a tough sister. Doctor Matthias must get her reasearch data on Head Start from the Heritage Foundatiohn or the Cato Institute, so-called conservative think tanks. The Perry Preschool Project is a study that followed children over a forty year time span (see
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T12:26:39-06:00
- ID
- 71979
- Comment
I have bolded the important part. Many evaluations have also found evidence that Head Start has short-term positive effects on some cognitive skills such as vocabulary. Research has shown that Head Start helps children avoid grade repetition and placement in the special education track, and that both of these factors are linked to higher schooling attainments later in life. Unfortunately, most studies have also found that gains in children's cognitive test scores are relatively short-lived, and begin to disappear by the time children reach third grade. However, my research with Duncan Thomas and the research of Arthur Reynolds and his colleagues suggest that such "fadeout" is not inevitable. Duncan Thomas and I point out that most evaluations which find fadeout focus on inner-city, African-American children. Using data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Mothers and Children, we find evidence that long-term positive effects on white and Hispanic children are often sustained at least until early adolescence. Given that the initial impact of Head Start is very similar for whites and blacks, these findings suggest that fadeout may be due to the poor quality of subsequent schooling rather than to deficiencies in Head Start. Research by Reynolds supports this hypothesis. Reynolds studies children who benefited from both Head Start and a follow-up program called the Chicago Child Parent Centers, which has been in place since 1967 and is designed to enhance the quality of their schooling. He finds that this program has had significant effects on schooling attainment, as well as negative effects on delinquency and criminal activity. Both of these sets of studies rely on statistical methods to allow for the fact that children who enroll in Head Start may differ in many ways from those who do not. Currently, this is the best that can be done since there has never been a randomized trial of Head Start. The Advisory Committee on Head Start Research Evaluation, appointed by the Administration on Children, Youth and Families, recommended in 1999 that the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) conduct an evaluation that relies on randomly assigning children to sites where funds are insufficient to serve all eligible children. The committee felt that if some children are to be denied services in any case, it makes sense to do it randomly, so that the effect of the Head Start "treatment" can be rigorously assessed in the way that, for example, a new drug would be assessed using a randomized trial.
- Author
- Lori G
- Date
- 2006-04-10T12:38:26-06:00
- ID
- 71980
- Comment
Other Head Start research: Ongoing research in the FACES study
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T12:39:15-06:00
- ID
- 71981
- Comment
So, who wants to now change this conversation into one about the disparity between the education received by poorer inner city kids as compared to more influential white children? Because, that's where this needs to go. And, Good Doctor, you tell me..."How does white culture help the ghetto?"
- Author
- Lori G
- Date
- 2006-04-10T12:42:29-06:00
- ID
- 71982
- Comment
that fadeout may be due to the poor quality of subsequent schooling rather than to deficiencies in Head Start. When I read Doc's comment, I wondered about exactly this. Obviously, Headstart can't work by itself -- but that doesn't mean it's not important or effective. It's always remarkable to me when people cherry-pick without looking at the big picture. Not helpful at all.
- Author
- DonnaLadd
- Date
- 2006-04-10T12:43:12-06:00
- ID
- 71983
- Comment
So, who wants to now change this conversation into one about the disparity between the education received by poorer inner city kids as compared to more influential white children? Onward! I'm time-deficient right now, but I so look forward to seeing where this discussion goes -- and how exactly the quality of that poor education is going to end up the sole fault of those families.
- Author
- DonnaLadd
- Date
- 2006-04-10T12:45:02-06:00
- ID
- 71984
- Comment
I intended to agree with Kamikaze, but got sidetracked a little. Society is messed up, not just the low-income people mired in persistent poverty. If society really cared, we would show our priorities by putting more money into education in low-income areas. Low-income schools often have the worst facilities and the least able and least qualified teachers. They need after school programs. The parents need decent jobs to encourage them to participate in the legitimate economy. Forty years after the ten point program, the people still want land, bread, housing, justice, decent education (that teaches us about the true nature this society) and peace.
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T12:45:47-06:00
- ID
- 71985
- Comment
ali... The "white culture" by and large IS trying to help the "ghetto culture". Not all the "white" culture but SCORES of "white" groups and individuals. Habitat, Stewpot, inner city missions by scores of "white" churches, inner city tutoring services by "white ladies" going on today and even as we speak. Daybreak, Affirmative Action programs, Equal Opportunity contracting, Enterprise Zones (in economically "depressed areas" throughout the city), scores of volunteers at the Continuing Education Center, Parents for Public Schools (founded, organized and funded by "white " parents), Operation Shoestring, First Baptist Church/Voice of Calvary ministries....I could go on and on and on and on and on. The discouraging fact is that the "ghetto culture" has "glorified" a culture disdaining educational success (See Lanier H.S. 2 years ago when NOT ONE BLACK SENIOR had a 2.5 average which meant no "Mr. Lanier HS". Those interviewed said making good grades was "acting too white"), brought forth songs with lyrics degrading their own people, and a culture that mocks comments made by Spike Lee and Bill Cosby encouraging individual and personal responsibility and greatness. "Gangsta Rap" is cool and "thugging up" (their description, not mine) your car is "cool". Prison time is yawned at, as are kids out of wedlock, and the status of honest, gainful employment, at entry level positions is ridiculed by too many in the "ghetto culture". This is painfully depressing to so many blacks I come in contact with that wish to attain the ideals exactly as espoused recently by Spike Lee. Also I might add, discouraging the efforts sometimes of people to get involved more than they do. The "ghetto cilture" is a creature of the ghetto, and IMHO, will never change as long as it is glorified by those that live it, and the selfess "people" that market it.
- Author
- Ben Allen
- Date
- 2006-04-10T13:11:50-06:00
- ID
- 71986
- Comment
The "ghetto cilture" is a creature of the ghetto, and IMHO, will never change as long as it is glorified by those that live it, and the selfess "people" that market it. Posted by: Ben Allen on Apr 10, 06 | 1:11 pm You finally got to the root when you point to the selfess "people" that market it. If you own stock in Viacom or some of the other big entertainment companies that market gangsta rap CDs, then you ARE one of the people who market it by way of your investment dollars. Big corporations are selling this crap to low-income people. You could say they don't have to buy into it. You could say no one forces people to buy crack either. That doesn't mean it should be on the corner.
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T13:18:56-06:00
- ID
- 71987
- Comment
Ben Allen-it was more a play on words than anything. But, "White culture" as a whole has not done all of those things. "White culture" as a whole has created a system where Poorer african american children are receiving substandard educations and less opportunities. I'm not "mocking" personal responsibility. I'm making a point that maybe the field isn't "even" to begin with. If you'd like my definitive answers on this please refer to my column "Bootstrap Fury". I'd find it, but I'm at work doing some of those things that the aforementioned nice "white ladies", who are NEVER oppressive while engaging in their 'helping behavior', normally do. (insert sarcasm)
- Author
- Lori G
- Date
- 2006-04-10T13:19:47-06:00
- ID
- 71988
- Comment
The discouraging fact is that the "ghetto culture" has "glorified" a culture disdaining educational success Hmmmm. Very little time here. But, Ben, what would you say the "white culture" has glorified? Anything that has hurt itself and/or the "black culture"? Certainly, the belittling of education is a horrible problem, which we must face. However, doesn't that also happen in the "white" community -- for instance, in the ways that people like Sen. Lott and other prominent conservatives belittle fact-gathering as "liberal"? Or, how about the "intellectual elite" disparagement of people who get a good education and then dare to question authority using intelligent facts? And I wonder about the following statement, but I'll allow others to pick this up: The "ghetto cilture" is a creature of the ghetto What, I wonder, is the "ghetto" the creation of? If we're going to get into root causes here, let's really get into root causes. You can't cherrypick them root causes if you're serious about doing something more than espousing a particular ideology.
- Author
- DonnaLadd
- Date
- 2006-04-10T13:22:08-06:00
- ID
- 71989
- Comment
Sorry, I should have explained this better. The "white culture" by and large IS trying to help the "ghetto culture". Not all the "white" culture but SCORES of "white" groups and individuals. Ben, "white culture" isn't groups of white people that get together and do humanitarian work. The other point I was trying to make is that humanitarian work does have the capability of being oppressive itself, depending on how you do it.
- Author
- Lori G
- Date
- 2006-04-10T13:28:41-06:00
- ID
- 71990
- Comment
Nearly every person in the ghetto would leave if they could see their way out. You either sit in the ghetto crying because your neighborhood isn't as adorned as others with necessities or luxuries; or you pretend the ghetto isn't as bad as it seems or is. Black folks deserve advance degrees for pretending to be innocuous and impervious to pain and shame. You see a man walking with no shoes on and pushing a cart. You ask him how it's doing and he says "it's all good." You know he's lying. I wish every black child made good grades, stayed out of trouble, finished high school then college. And I will bet my last cent there would be other excuses such as they aren't learning anything, they're going to the wrong schools, they're majoring in the wrong studies, they're trying to take over, or something else. Present day behavior is making it too easy for mean-spirited people to blame all the conditions of the poor on the poor. There is a competing counter argument involving greed, corruption, and the intentional yet clandestine shutting out of the least of us that the have-lots and middle class never want to talk about. These evils will always be factors in capitalism. A greater true is the fact that many younger blacks don't believe the system is designed to include them in any significant way. They see all kinds of signs of this by how they're treated as they walk into the malls, stores, restaurants, streets, schools, and colleges. Many don't want to endure the evil of the system just for a mere chance of succeeding in some insignificant way. Too many say the hell with the systems. Another story that needs telling is the difficulties suffered by black folks who have supposedly made it in this land of the free and home of the brave. If the truth was told about this there would be even greater darkness about the plight of balck folks for young black folks to contemplate. Half the truth ain't never been told. Ben, I haven't met one yet who wanted to go to prison. They pretend not to care, but I see the tears, hurt and shame all the time nevertheless.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-10T14:42:03-06:00
- ID
- 71991
- Comment
One thing I agree with Mr. Allen on is that more African Americans need to get involved in their community. Volunteering and helping one another used to be a more prominent part of OUR culture. Witness what happened in the sixties with freedom schools being run by volunteers, many of whom were local people. There were many local heros. When you go to Habitat sites and to Stewpot, one does not see enough people FROM THE COMMUNITY volunteering. It seems that since the sixties we have lost or way and lost our hope. More community volunteerism is part of the solution to the problems of the persistently poor. There is a glaring error in Mr. Allens statement that needs correcting. How can we talk as though gangsta rap and b*%$s and Hoes represent low-income ghetto culture when in fact the majority of poor people are working jobs and striving and the research shows that poverty will be long term and persistent only for a minority of this minority? Is this legitimate. It would be as though we looked at white people and stated that red neck culture represents them all. Most African Americans are not poor (below the fed poverty level) and most of those who are will (within any given seven year period) rise above the poverty level at some point. We are talking about a subset of a subset as though it is the norm.
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T14:50:59-06:00
- ID
- 71992
- Comment
I beg to differ, Whit (This is Ali's class called "fun with statistics"...) In Mississippi, 41% of black children live in poor families, while 10% of white children live in poor families. Low-Income Children: 51% (386,534) of children live in low-income families in Mississippi (National: 40%), defined as income below 200% of the federal poverty level. 71% (241,911) of black children live in low-income families. (this is a MS statistic) Who wants to scream "SEVENTY ONE PERCENT????" with me? Now, I'm only posting this because I want people to see the MS statistcs regarding African American children and the prevelance that they DO and WILL live in poverty at a rate (in this state) that is much higher than other states. (Although, we are beating Alabama. 73% of their african american children live in poverty. TN comes in at 60%) I'm not saying this has anything to do with b1tches and hoes. ;) I'm just saying its THERE and its REAL and no matter how many times we post debating what causes it, or will perpetuate it, IT IS THERE. And,in this state, it is not a "subset of a subset", or a "minority of a minority".
- Author
- Lori G
- Date
- 2006-04-10T15:18:14-06:00
- ID
- 71993
- Comment
Ali, you are right about the percentage of black children in poverty in Mississippi (41%). I have seen that stat in several places. Where does the 71% figure come from? What I was referring to is research that has been done over ten year time spans tracking the families who STAY below the federal poverty level -- in other words --- the PERSISTENTLY poor. I was referring to the national figures for PERSISTENT poverty. Those who are in poverty today are not necessarily the exact same ones below poverty ten years from now. Some of them will be the same ones. These are the persistently poor. The persistently poor ARE a subset of the overall population of poor people.
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T15:50:13-06:00
- ID
- 71994
- Comment
I need to add, so no one will think I'm blaming all of the problems of the poor and blacks in particular on racism or the white man (whoever he is now). We black folks are responsible, by and large, for fixing our own problems in as much as we can. We survived slavery and the choke-hoold of James Crow. Clearly, we can and will survive this today's challenges, too.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:02:50-06:00
- ID
- 71995
- Comment
"...and a culture that mocks comments made by Spike Lee and Bill Cosby encouraging individual and personal responsibility and greatness." You may have missed the column I wrote on Spike's visit to OLE MISS Mr. Allen. If you'll revisit that then you'll see that NO ONE is mocking Spike's (Or Cosby's) comments. You are mistaking some wh have "issues" with with what they said and calling it "mocking" There is truth in what they speak. no doubt. But I and others didnt agree with EVERYTHING they said. Go back and revisit the column. Spike Cosby, and a lot of those same "white" folks that you mentioned like to wag their finger from upon high. Condemning without offering true solutions. Criticizing without actually getting your hands dirty. And I will always abhor that. ...And thanks so kindly for the list of good "white" folk thats helping out all us po people. I can't begin to tell ya how much b.s. I think that is. the negatives you spew about "ghetto culture" hold true in SOME instances but by no means speaks for an entire race, class, or type of music. But unfortunately a lot of "white" folks seem to think so. The "selfless" people who market it mr. Allen are...you guessed it..WHITE!!! ..Point is..like Ali said...The playing field hasn't even been leveled yet so we can't even begin an honest discussion on how to fix these problems. It has NOTHING to do with music or a "culture" as much as it does surroundings and opportunities. And for all of the programs that you named Mr. Allen we still arent getting the fairest of shakes. Not just poor black folks but poor white folk as well.
- Author
- Kamikaze
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:10:05-06:00
- ID
- 71996
- Comment
..And to add on to Donna's point...You wanna talk about what someone's culture has "glorified". How about war for oil?, or invasion of privacy?, manipulating the media?, slavery?, jim crow?,lynchings?, segregation?, rampant sex and violence in movies and on tv?, urban blight?, hypocrisy in government?, corruption in government?, racial profiling?...should I go on? if we're screwing some things up in our communities, believe you me, we had some GREAT teachers!!!!!!
- Author
- Kamikaze
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:17:42-06:00
- ID
- 71997
- Comment
Kamikaze, I love your 4:17 post almost as much as I loved your article. I can't wait on Mr. Allen to respond to that.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:21:51-06:00
- ID
- 71998
- Comment
I do, too, Kaze. ;-)
- Author
- DonnaLadd
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:23:59-06:00
- ID
- 71999
- Comment
To echo Ali and give Children's Defense Fund's stats on MS poor: White Children in MS- 1 in 8 is poor (12.4%) Black Children in MS- 4 in 9 are poor (44.1%) Latino 1 in 5 is poor (29.6%) MS Ranks 50th in % of poor children, 50th in per pupil expenditures, 40th in uninsured children. We spend $5,175 per pupil in public school and $12,795 per prisoner. And the percentage of children under age six with ALL parents in labor force- 67%. And this was all BEFORE KATRINA...
- Author
- urbangypsy
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:33:32-06:00
- ID
- 72000
- Comment
An Urban Institute study found that about 50% of those below poverty (the same ones) remained below the poverty level after ten years. Of course, they were replaced by others -- that's how we get the increases. Almost half of the families below poverty are working poor. The point I was trying to make is that the problem of poverty is not about a ghetto culture and people who don't want to work -- just hang out on the corner -- in spite of alleged ample opportunities. Nationwide 48% of the poor are white. 62% are NOT in families headed by women.
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:39:38-06:00
- ID
- 72001
- Comment
Again, I agree with Kamikaze. Look at all the big corporations who are making money off the pornography industry. I fear that the roots of decadence may not be found in the ghetto :-).
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:44:42-06:00
- ID
- 72002
- Comment
WHIT-that 71% statistic is on the link I put in the post. The only point I was trying to make is that at 71%, even if "part" of those children are getting out of poverty, still makes it a huge epidemic.
- Author
- Lori G
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:45:23-06:00
- ID
- 72003
- Comment
Oh- but I'm sure that these stats which have been consistent for this generation of kids has nothing to do with their lack of hope, dismal view of the future, lack of trying in schools that clearly don't do much other than warehouse them until they're ready to go to minimum wage jobs. (sarcastic chuckle) But on to some solutions: IMHO- I think some of the first steps are small ones that haven't been implemented well. Such as, after school programs that aren't an extension of the school day but a different way of learning and having (dare I say it FUN?). We as adults can't sit around all day in a class and then go to the same thing and be sucessful. Anyone who wants to see programs that really make a difference should stop by Operation Shoestring or any of the Emergency Freedom School sites around Jackson. The FS model is one incorporates movement, music, pride of culture, life skills and academic help. College interns who have gone through a vigorous training become mentors for these students. Why can't we have sites like this all over the city? (sorry for the shamless plug) But dangit the program and those similar to it work...
- Author
- urbangypsy
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:48:43-06:00
- ID
- 72004
- Comment
Ali, we are on the same team. We are the richest country in the world. We should not have 70, 60, 50, 40, or 30 percent of our children in poverty. We certainly should not have a huge percentage who do not know how to read after the third grade. That is what leads to the persistent poverty.
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:51:49-06:00
- ID
- 72005
- Comment
My beef is with beating up on the poor with stuff like: If they would just put down the forties and blunts and take the ear rings out and pull up their pants...
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:55:46-06:00
- ID
- 72006
- Comment
WHIT-Don't I know it. We live in a state that doesn't fully fund education and is constantly cutting support services to public schools. The two factors that are going to change this statistic. When you live in a state where persistant poverty is such a problem, and you do not fund to the two avenues that are the only way out...well, its a hard question to answer .... But, who do you have to kill to get this fixed? ;) That's all I'm asking....
- Author
- Lori G
- Date
- 2006-04-10T16:56:26-06:00
- ID
- 72007
- Comment
Ali, some people claim that when someone says funding for education should be increased, they'll claim that money is just being thrown at the problem. Well, I'll ask this: Does it make any sense for my nephew to not have been able to take textbooks home for assignments because there weren't enough to go around? That's not only ridiculous - that's sabotage. Since he got diagnosed with ADD, they make an exception for him now, but it shouldn't have to be that way at all. Does any private school here ever deal with overcrowded classrooms or attending class in portable buildings with leaky roofs? Somebody say something.
- Author
- LatashaWillis
- Date
- 2006-04-10T22:08:28-06:00
- ID
- 72008
- Comment
"My beef is with beating up on the poor with stuff like: If they would just put down the forties and blunts and take the ear rings out and pull up their pants..." Sadly, that's the quick fix solution that most white and upper crust black people use. and it goes so much deeper than that... And I see Ben hasnt jumped back in after Kamikaze's last post. Did he come to REAL for you?
- Author
- trusip
- Date
- 2006-04-11T09:25:01-06:00
- ID
- 72009
- Comment
Two of my children went to public school all the way through and then when I had two more to educate, I could not put them in public school, even if I lived in one of the so called good school areas. My oldest child in school has 19 kids in the class room and my youngest has 23, neither of the teachers have an assistant to help them with any of the extra work. But yes my child can bring home a text book as needed, but some of those are years old, written in, and torn pages. The private schools are not able to afford textbooks either.
- Author
- malt
- Date
- 2006-04-11T10:19:20-06:00
- ID
- 72010
- Comment
My two siblings and I went to a small (now level 3) public high school in Mississippi and we all scored high on the ACT (27 or higher). Once there is a strong foundation in the early years, research shows that parental involvement is one of the (if not the most) important factors. It is a two-sided variable. Not only most parents seek to become involved -- in a constructive manner, but schools must also welcome and cultivate that involvement. Too often, both sides of the coin are missing.
- Author
- FreeClif
- Date
- 2006-04-11T13:41:24-06:00
- ID
- 72011
- Comment
Did you all know about the two-part series on Oprah about problems with education in America? Part 2 is tomorrow.
- Author
- LatashaWillis
- Date
- 2006-04-11T22:17:46-06:00
- ID
- 72012
- Comment
I like what everyone has had to say on the various subjects. Even those that sorta rubbed me the wrong way. It WOULD be a tremendous boost of support for the village to come back. Imagine our kids' (of all colors) reactions if they could showcase their talents to other strangers who marvelled at their accomplishments. Imagine going to a school meeting, not having a kid yourself, but going to see what's being discussed. I've read one book by Ben Carson, "Think Big." With hard work and diligent studies, we can attain education and higher-than-entry-level jobs. I would agree that a part of ghetto culture leads to the ills that we face but as someone pointed out earlier, be careful when categorizing things as the norm. I'm happy to hear about the emergency freedom schools; thank you for this resource. Parents should understand that their involvement isn't necessarily as teacher but supporter (although er' lil bit counts). Meaning, some parents don't feel smart enough to be able to help their kids, when encouragement goes a mile.
- Author
- lilsoulja
- Date
- 2006-04-12T14:49:30-06:00
- ID
- 72013
- Comment
Although Kamikaze preached a good story of positive black youth and what can be possible, it's more likened to the Land of La La....unless the black community throws out ALL TV'S (FLAT SCREENS TOO) and get back to reading a damn book or two or three or a hundred..way too many idle minds in the "hood" to do anything towards a step in a positive direction. America and especially the black community was NEVER about celebrating it's best and brightest anyway...NEVER. If that was the case, people such as Malcolm X, MLK and other great black leaders' ideals would still be alive and the cowards' thoughts that remain would be the minority. but that's not the case. America, and to a great degree Black Americans, have ALWAYS been about celebrating it's most cunning and vicious. THAT'S A FACT. and honestly, there's not a damn thing wrong with that. War is always nastiest on the field than in the bleechers. The "best and brightest" of society are merely to give hope to the hopeless and unfocused, which I feel the crowd Kamikaze is preaching to. example: Take a kid, any kid, of any color, allow them the best of education and opportunity, then release them to American society and more often then not, they will become cutthroat, back-stabbing and shrewd by age 30. why? Because that's what America wants and needs to stay on the cutting edge of being a Superpower. "No wimps allowed" is the echo in the hills of America.
- Author
- JSU
- Date
- 2006-04-12T16:01:18-06:00
- ID
- 72014
- Comment
The greatest weapon ever made is probably a thing called the TRUTH. Millions are spent to hide and distort it. Whenever you want to retire BULLS*#T, just put TRUTH in the ring with him. He'll take a knee every time. Lies, trickery, and all sorts of evil hate the TRUTH. But, most of all, they fear him, too. Keep the TRUTH with you. He's a bad mother shut ya mouth. Kamikaze sent him over and you know what left. But I love Ben.
- Author
- Ray Carter
- Date
- 2006-04-12T17:39:05-06:00
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