Jackson Free Press

Jackson and the metro area have a new set of eyes in the sky, thanks to local helicopter pilot Coyt Bailey, SafeCity Watch, philanthropist Jim Barksdale and other private donors, who together donated about $700,000 for the purchase of a surveillance helicopter that will cruise the skies over Jackson and Ridgeland.

"We're always talking about needing more judges, more prosecutors, more jail space, more this, more that. We don't have the money for that, ladies and gentlemen. What we do have the money for is preventing crime. I think you're going to be turning on the television and hearing about crimes that were about to happen being stopped," announced SafeCity director Mark McCreery.

"Law enforcement can be more effective if it's got the most modern equipment," said Barksdale, who would not disclose how much he donated to the project.

A crowd filled the grassy lot of One Jackson Place Dec. 15 to view the touchdown of the R44 Raven II helicopter that will support law enforcement with an aerial view of possible crimes in action, assist in manhunts, and do photo missions, emergency response maneuvers and routine patrol.

Local helicopter pilot and Metro One, LLC, Director Coyt Bailey said it has taken about a decade to get the machine in Jackson.

"It's got all the equipment in it that any state-of-the-art helicopter has. There's nothing different that Los Angeles or New York or the big aviation units have that this helicopter doesn't have," Bailey said.

The R44 is growing in popularity in other parts of the country, such as California, where the San Bernardino Police Department celebrated the purchase of its own R44 helicopter in August. That machine, like the Metro One, comes with a mapping system, infrared and a searchlight.

Aside from the opening costs, Metro One has a yearly maintenance budget of more than half a million dollars. Metro One, LLC, owner Metro One Mercury Aviation Inc., of Flowood, is paying nearly $350,000 of those costs, with SafeCity donating more than $100,000. McCreery said the Hinds County Sheriff's Department and JPD will pay another $25,000 each, and that Ridgeland and Madison will join in the financing. The latter may pay $10,000 each. Hinds County supervisors voted Dec. 18 to approve the $25,000 fee for the vehicle.

Metro One Program Manager Andy Robinson said the vehicle is fully insured if it does damage to city or private property during the course of its use. The same insurers handling the company's other helicopters, such as the weather and traffic-report copter, fully cover Metro One. The coverage, he added, is costly.

"The insurance is actually a large percentage of the yearly budget," Robinson said.

Bailey refused to submit a copy of the insurance policy to the JFP for review.

"We don't make a habit of sending out information like that," Bailey said.

A National Transportation Safety Board probable-cause report of helicopter accidents between 1998 through 2002 revealed that the R44 series suffered few accidents compared to other popular models such as the Bell 206 Series and the Robinson R22 Series. The R44 suffered a total of 15 accidents between 1998 and 2002, with 14 of those attributed to pilot error, and one due to maintenance trouble. By contrast, the Bell 206 suffered 141 accidents, with nine of those due to engine failure. The Bell 206 is a much older model than the R44, however.

McCreery said SafeCity is the chief funding agent of the helicopter. The crime watchdog group, which sponsored Mayor Frank Melton's crime summit, features board members Warren Speed, radio pundit Alan Lange, Entergy development guru Haley Fisackerly, and others such as Wirt Yerger and Joseph Lauderdale. Melton was listed as a board member as recently as this year, though he claims he is not affiliated with the group any longer.

"We've donated a good chunk to make this purchase possible, and we're going to be raising money to keep the service financed," McCreery said. "Hopefully, the cities around us, we can get them all involved, and they'll be a pretty good-sized part of the funding."

The vehicle, called Metro One, features an array of high technology and spying devices, such as a 360-degree 18x zoom color camera, video recording, a GPS inflight map, a 20-million candle searchlight and, most notably, an infrared camera that can pick up both biological and mechanical heat signals.

"The infrared on that can literally pick up somebody breathing," McCreery said. "We can use that function finding meth labs."

Metro One, LLC, has a memorandum of understanding with the city of Jackson, in lieu of an actual contract. In the memorandum of understanding, which the JFP acquired last week, the city has a responsibility to pay Metro One an initial $25,000, with a varying contribution to operating costs for each year the city participates in the helicopter program. Metro One also expects the city to help sell the idea of Metro One to other donors, educate the public on Metro One services, and recognize Metro One employees as independent of the city. The city may opt out of the program at any time.

Mississippi ACLU executive Director Nsombi Lambright said she has concerns over privacy issues with a large spying device hovering over the city, whether a government agency or a private company runs it.

"We're certainly concerned about the neighborhood profiling and the violation of privacy rights," Lambright said, explaining that many residents should be concerned over the high-altitude peeking, whether it was coming from the government or a private company like Metro One, LLC. Lambright added that she hoped the city would increase its crime-fighting efforts through interacting with community associations.

Hinds County DA Faye Peterson said that helicopter pilots can submit evidence gathered without a warrant for court cases so long as the evidence can be categorized as "within plain view."

"Proving that it's in plain view may be kind of difficult, and will have to be done on a case-by-case basis, though," Peterson said, explaining that a glass greenhouse full of marijuana in a suspect's backyard may not count as plain view, whereas an open field would.

"A defense attorney is likely to dispute anything, so you have to look at it on a case-by-case basis," she said.

The Florida Supreme Court ruled in a 1989 case (Florida v. Riley) that evidence collected by a helicopter in that case was in violation of the Fourth Amendment, and the court suppressed it. The ACLU argued in that case that positioning a helicopter directly over a residence and buildings within its curtilage (such as a greenhouse 20 feet behind the house) invades the heightened privacy expectations of the home and oversteps what society is prepared to recognize as reasonable.

Patrick Camden, deputy director of news for the city of Chicago, said they had never had a problem with evidence submitted by pilots getting kicked out of courts.

"No, I don't recall the evidence from our helicopter as being inadmissible, but let me tell you, we just got a helicopter back into the city this year," Camden said. "We had one before, but lost it. The budget for that thing was remarkable, and we just couldn't afford it."

Here is Jackson's Memorandum of Understanding (PDF, 1.5 MB) with the helicopter company

Previous Comments

ID

67182

Comment

I know I'm spose to be crazy, but, frankly, I'd like to see Melton driving the hellicopter and chasing down criminals. Can you imagine how high-larious that would be? We would make world or universe news. I might just call judge Green to see if I can get her to lift some of the restrictions placed on Frank so he can go out with a blaze. We can call it "Frank's Last Ride." I'll even write the column!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-12-28T17:01:00-06:00

ID

67183

Comment

It's past midnight as I write this comment, having been kept awake by the copter flying around and around downtown Jackson where I live. As I would have with any other nuisance being caused by a private vehicle, I called the Jackson Police Department to file a noise complaint. Unfortunately, when the officer arrived, he refused to take my complaint and threatened to arrest me. When I complained immediately afterward to his supervisor, I was told that the officer would be justified to arrest a citizen for making such a noise complaint. City of grace and benevolence, indeed...

Author

Brent Cox

Date

2006-12-30T01:31:51-06:00

ID

67184

Comment

Bump, as much for Brent's comment as anything else. Did the supervisor cite municipal code? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-01T17:14:39-06:00

ID

67185

Comment

Why exactly did they threaten arrest? Over a complaint sounds fishy, considering they hardly come for Grand Theft Auto.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-01T18:45:23-06:00

ID

67186

Comment

I can see why he almost got arrested. Suppose the police drive by my house with the sirens blaring and I call the police to my home to file a complaint. I dont' think they would like that too much and I'm sure there is an ordinance they could throw at me for taking such action which would be considered frivolous and harrassing in nature.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-01-01T19:09:10-06:00

ID

67187

Comment

Fish, the helicopter is privately owned; it is not a JPD helicopter. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-01T19:49:55-06:00

ID

67188

Comment

is it operated by the police?Law enforcement agencies lease out equipment all the time. Its used by law enforcement and its duties are primarly law enforcement. If its marked as law enforcement and operated as such, I don't think the ownership will be that important on this issue.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-01-01T20:00:58-06:00

ID

67189

Comment

Fish, the law matters. If it's a privately owned vehicle, it can be subjected to a noise complaint. Period. For that matter, it can be subjected to a noise complaint even if it's not a privately owned vehicle, but the fact that it's a privately owned vehicle means that it can be subject to a noise complaint just as much as a car stereo. What they choose to do with the complaint is up to them, but threatening to arrest someone for filing a complaint is not kosher, and whether you think the complaint should be filed or not is a completely irrelevant point. Police are there to enforce the law, not make it up as they go along. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-01T20:05:02-06:00

ID

67190

Comment

Tom, this is JPD we're talking here. I would think if they're leasing that vehicle, it's a police vehicle.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-01T20:23:44-06:00

ID

67191

Comment

Here's the relevant excerpt from the article: Metro One, LLC, has a memorandum of understanding with the city of Jackson, in lieu of an actual contract. In the memorandum of understanding, which the JFP acquired last week, the city has a responsibility to pay Metro One an initial $25,000, with a varying contribution to operating costs for each year the city participates in the helicopter program. Metro One also expects the city to help sell the idea of Metro One to other donors, educate the public on Metro One services, and recognize Metro One employees as independent of the city. The city may opt out of the program at any time. Again, this is a privately-owned vehicle. Regardless of any business relationship the company might have with JPD, the police department has an obligation to accept and investigate noise complaints. The law needs to apply to everybody equally--the folks JPD likes, and the folks JPD doesn't like. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-01T21:00:48-06:00

ID

67192

Comment

Pfft. We know that doesn't apply. I still don't see why Brent would be threatened because he wanted to complain. Anyone ask Ben Allen yet?

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-01T21:11:46-06:00

ID

67193

Comment

The copter flew over a party I was at in a nice neighborhood the other day. Actually it was sweeping the neighborhood not the house specificially. But, what will ruin a party quickly? A helicopter shining a blaring light into a backyard party where no laws are being broken... Ever had a helicopter fly over your party, hover, and shine its lights on your attendees? Was more than annoying. You couldn't talk and you could barely think. Needless to say, half the people left (because the copter kept doing loops) and the others went inside. Meanwhile, I'm at a restaurant last night and a car was broken into... No 'copter. The police took 25 minutes to show up (and the headquarters were walking distance)... I'm beginning to think it's going to be an expensive nuisance.

Author

kaust

Date

2007-01-02T08:35:45-06:00

ID

67194

Comment

I am filing an IA complaint against the officer for his behavior, as well as the supervisor for his assertion that I could be arrested for making a noise complaint about a private vehicle. I'll post the findings here, although I believe I already know what they will be.

Author

Brent Cox

Date

2007-01-02T10:13:48-06:00

ID

67195

Comment

I think Delta and Southwest Airlines are privately owned as well. When the wind in blowing just right they have to pull the landing gear up just to get over my house. It gets quite loud. But, since I have nothing better to do, I think its time for me to file a complaint. The helicopter shined the light on a party I was at as well. Kind of interesting and no one was robbed while walking to their car. I think I was profiled.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-02T10:51:42-06:00

ID

67196

Comment

Oops, that's that cop's luck that he would threaten an ACLU operative. Oops. The spycopter is off to an auspicious start. Sigh. I guess once SafeCity saw that one of their founders couldn't swoop in and clean up crime, they decided to replace him with a very expensive machine. The 'copter's a bad idea, folks. I won't be proved wrong on this (with a nod to Kim Wade).

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-02T10:52:54-06:00

ID

67197

Comment

Good on you, Brent. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help raise some hell! Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-02T11:00:14-06:00

ID

67198

Comment

At least we know Frank isn't at the control. Otherwise, we would have landings in people's back yards, illegal searches, force entrys, and conversations/instructions from the sky, just like they do on cartoons and in larger cities across America. I hope they're doing the same in Rankin and Madison counties. Good luck Brent. Everybody I know who dealt with IA hated the police department even moreso afterward. You haven't seen disrespect and being treated like a non-entity until you dealt with IA.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-02T11:02:18-06:00

ID

67199

Comment

The good news is that, if this follows the typical Melton pattern, it'll be used for about a month and then everybody will forget it existed. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-02T11:26:12-06:00

ID

67200

Comment

They're blogging about Adam's Spycopter story over at Wired.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-02T14:19:38-06:00

ID

67201

Comment

if it was the melton pattern it would be two weeks, not a month. and his excuse would be that someone else had promised to pay the pilot and pay for the chopper but lied and stiffed the city and he was going to investigate that person.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-01-02T14:49:11-06:00

ID

67202

Comment

...and cream him personally. I can see the headlines now! Yes, you're right, Fish. And Donna, the Wired thing is tres cool! Is that a JFP first? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-02T14:50:29-06:00

ID

67203

Comment

It's the first time I know of that Wired has blogged about one of our stories. This skycopter thing has negative national publicity written all over it. It's likely another case where we embarrass ourselves as a city because people didn't think through what they're doing. We don't need a private spycopter flying around flashing people's parties with limited accountability and big expense. Folks, this ain't gonna solve our crime issues. Sigh.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-02T15:00:55-06:00

ID

67204

Comment

They need to stop acting like "peeping Toms" and roll up in the parties like Frank and Shirlene would do. It just occurred to me that the unwritten and unspoken purpose of the spycopter could/might be to stop drug use and sales amounst the rich, affluent, and non-street peddling and users of drugs. It's about time the authorities figured out that the largest drug consumers are not the street people but well-to-do-users. Frank and Shirlen have fooled us all. They have us looking in the wrong directions. I can't wait to see drug busts among the previously thought to free and clear of suspicion or detection. Go Frank and Shirlene. Of course, I'm not accusing Brent, Knol or any of the people here of partaking in the devil's necture.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-02T15:12:10-06:00

ID

67205

Comment

I'm still waiting to see a drug bust for more than a gram of meth or coke or a bag of weed from this bunch.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-01-02T15:20:53-06:00

ID

67206

Comment

I would love to see some azzes snatched from affluent neighborhoods of Eastover, Ridgeland, Madison, Pearl, Flowood, Clinton, et al, with boxes of drugs confiscated therewith. Before long, there would be state and federal legislation to study, work with (counsel) and cure drug use. In that event it won't be that people are bad characters turning to drugs but that drugs are bad and turning innated and inherent good character into bad character or something of the sort.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-02T15:31:33-06:00

ID

67207

Comment

Frankie's kool-aide drinkers are just frothing at the mouth over the prospect of their first big, LA style televised car chase. That's what this is all about: keeping people scared, and keeping them entertained.

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2007-01-02T16:54:59-06:00

ID

67208

Comment

Does anyone remember when JPD had a copter back in the 70's-early 80's? If I remember correctly crime stats went down when the JPD helicopter was in the sky.....It may be worthy of the research..

Author

The Observer

Date

2007-01-02T23:10:49-06:00

ID

67209

Comment

Whoa, go look at the Wired blog about this story today. They're cooking with gas on this. So when is Jackson going to learn to take the time to do things right? So many examples come to mind, with the half-baked LeFleur Lakes "flood control" plan at the top of the list.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T12:28:03-06:00

ID

67210

Comment

Yeah, I dropped in early to give the readers a little background history on Melton and SafeCity. :-p

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-01-03T12:48:54-06:00

ID

67211

Comment

Also, unlike a few Wired bloggers, I (and I'm sure the JFP family) DO NOT advocate retaliation in the form of guns, mirrors, laser beams, or mylar balloons against the copter. That is plain crazy, unnecessary, and un-American. I am not against a police helicopter. They work well in many cities and we've had one before - before Ditto sold it for a dollar! However, the project between SafeCity, MetroOne, and the local municipalities is clearly in danger of violating the rights of innocent citizens or being used with prejudice against specific individuals. I have yet to see the copter over my neighborhood. And, we all know that when you live in Ward 1 you live in the area of Jackson that has seen the largest increase of violent crime since SafeCity's astute mayor took charge! I've been having nightmares lately. Yet, instead of seeing Slim Pickens riding the nuclear bomb down on Russia, I keep seeing Melton on the bomb headed for Jackson. The only good part is that several of his supporters are strung along like the tail of kite behind him!

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-01-03T13:06:54-06:00

ID

67212

Comment

Pay attention Pike, I've seen it over ward 1. Its the one that doesn't have WLBT on the side.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T13:15:00-06:00

ID

67213

Comment

Yeah, there are some crazies in there, Pike, but I do like this Libertarian comment: I'll give you the libertarian take on this, it's offensive as hell. Just because private donations are covering the expenses of this helicopter doesn't mean it gets a libertarian stamp of approval. Our philosophy is all about the proper role of government entities not the elimination and privatization of all government entities. Law enforcement is one of the only proper roles of government because of the fact that government is the only LEGAL entity authorized to have a monopoly on the use of force. To enforce laws that protect our lives and property it is necessary to delegate the use of force to law enforcement officers who should also protect the rights of citizens. This includes the right to privacy which is egregiously violated by this helicopter operation. Just because a private outfit operates the helicopter doesn't mean it is not violating laws designed to protect the right to privacy of citizens. Anti stalking laws could probably be used to shut this operation down. Surveillance is allowed on private property by property owners, but a helicopter that flys over an entire city enjoys no such authorization. I would suggest the citizens of Jackson appeal to the MS State Police to investigate this situation or lobby the state Attorney General to put a stop to this.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T13:18:28-06:00

ID

67214

Comment

Speaking of WLBT, what is the deal with Coyt Bailey? Was/is he a reporter with WLBT? Anyone know if he has law enforcement training?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T13:19:20-06:00

ID

67215

Comment

BTW, I smell expensive lawsuits against the city coming from this thing. Any attorneys out there want to break down what the citizen concerns about liability should be for us as taxpayers?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T13:20:18-06:00

ID

67216

Comment

I'm all for the spycopter. It's about time that citizens other than the poor are harassed for their secretive indulgences in drugs, excessive alcoholism, and freaky-deakiness, too. If we're going to stop drugs (use and sale) and criminal behavior beyond the usual reach of the law we have to have the spycopter to make them quiet their habits or become too paranoid to continue. There ain't no telling what we may find in some of those middle class and affluent neighborhoods. The 25 year assault on the poor hasn't changed anything. The middle class and rich are the true problem areas of our society. I'm ready to see jailhouses overflowing with them. What a wonderful world?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-03T13:34:52-06:00

ID

67217

Comment

What makes you think that the copter will spend as much time over Eastover as over West Jackson? I went on a ride-along with a copter in Colorado Springs -- it was fun! -- but I could see that its role in actually helping crime was marginal. All this reminds me of the silliness of the Guardian Angels in NYC. It's about PR—until the lawsuits start coming in. And I can't wait to see what happens when a helicopter starts chasing cars. There are no dangers there for innocent citizens. No way. Car chases are bad enough. Sigh.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T13:39:06-06:00

ID

67218

Comment

Ray said, "The middle class and rich are the true problem areas of our society. I'm ready to see jailhouses overflowing with them. What a wonderful world?" Its about time someone saw the real problem...

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T13:59:35-06:00

ID

67219

Comment

Well, certainly, the real problem when it comes to the drug trade are the rich suppliers and the folks who pour money into both supplying and buying. And plenty of those are in the middle and upper classes. If you want to fight a drug war, in other words, you do have to take it to rich neighborhoods. Else, you're discriminating. Of course, the big question is whether fighting a drug war makes any sense. I used to think it did, but I've changed my mind.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T14:01:50-06:00

ID

67220

Comment

Ladd, how is fighting a drug problem in areas based on personal income alone not descriminating?

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T14:17:38-06:00

ID

67221

Comment

Who said that—anything about "alone"—colby?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T14:20:05-06:00

ID

67222

Comment

You did Ladd. If "rich" equals anything else but personal income, please let me know.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T14:24:12-06:00

ID

67223

Comment

Can we all agree that we don't need a National Association for the Advancement of Rich White People here? Not only does law enforcement not target rich whites, but it specifically DOESN'T target rich whites, and they tend to get better legal representation when they are targeted. Colby, if this is the biggest fish you have to fry... Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-03T14:48:53-06:00

ID

67224

Comment

colby, reading comprehension is a handy thing in this world. I did NOT say anything about "fighting a drug problem in areas based on personal income alone." Pay attention, please, before you try to put words in my mouth, friend.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T14:55:41-06:00

ID

67225

Comment

Just got a tip about some spycopter privacy issues in New York City—spying on a couple making out on a rooftop: Go to http://iwitnessvideo.info/news/index.html, and you will be able to find links to the stories which ran first on WCBS-TV and then in the New York Times. There are video links available for both sets of stories. See below for story titles. 22 Dec 2005 Police Video Caught a Couple's Intimate Moment on a Manhattan Rooftop Jim Dwyer, The New York Times * Pt. 2 Police Videotape Couple [video] 24 Feb 2005 Did NYPD Cameras Invade A Couple's Privacy? Was It Appropriate Use Of Surveillance Equipment? Ti-Hua Chang, WCBS-TV New York

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T14:57:51-06:00

ID

67226

Comment

That's just about the only thing a spycopter is good for. Criminals will simply keep an eye on where the copter is, and avoid it. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-03T14:59:18-06:00

ID

67227

Comment

Well, it's not like you can't see/hear it coming. ;-) They're also dangerous over cities.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T15:00:19-06:00

ID

67228

Comment

The most poignant point in the Wired thread is from the guy who linked to the FAA regs. He asked: What sheeple voted this thing into being? It just kills me that Mississippians have this ask-no-questions-in-advance approach to so many things. Sheeple, indeed. The good news is that this approach is easy to change simply by waking up, thinking, doing homework and asking questions. Or, one can follow the Clarion-Ledger edit-boyz' approach and play deaf, dumb and stupid on important community issues: The fee amounts to a minimal donation for such a service. The helicopter was purchased by Jim Barksdale, former Netscape CEO who now lives in Jackson. It costs $600,000 and has a $521,000 operating cost. This is a unique and creative approach to beef up law enforcement for the metro area. It is somewhat of an experiment and will take coordination of law enforcement working with a private entity in sharing the helicopter service. Law enforcement needs all the support it can get. Thanks to Mr. Barksdale and all of those officials and private individuals who have helped this project to take off. I choose the not-sheeple approach.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T15:05:39-06:00

ID

67229

Comment

No problem Ladd...Thanks for answering the question. Now on my next rading comprehension test I can argue that rich in no way is equal to personal income. Nice. I mite not be able to speel my weigh out ov a wett papur bag but I can assure you that my comprehenshun is fine. And Tom, why would you need to advance someone if they are already rich? Geez...Get it together boy.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T15:10:00-06:00

ID

67230

Comment

Colby, I have to second Donna's comment re: reading things carefully, because your comment to me above makes absolutely no sense in the context of my last post. Seriously. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-03T15:33:08-06:00

ID

67231

Comment

Can we all agree that we don't need a National Association for the Advancement of Rich White People here? --I copied and pasted this here so im pretty sure it is what you typed. Tom, Why dont we need a National Association for the Advancement of Rich White People?

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T16:11:46-06:00

ID

67232

Comment

Colby, you are making no sense whatsoever. Stop trying to muddy the waters, please, or put words in other people's mouths that they didn't say (that's against the rules). No one here is fool enough to argue that any drug war should "only" be waged on the rich. NOBODY said that, as is apparent by reading above. The point is that the drug war is concentrated on the poor—and that is not going to stop the illegal drug trade.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T16:22:44-06:00

ID

67233

Comment

Y'all see see this story in the Madison County Journal? It's filled with sheeple quotes: Madison resident Andy Robinson, a pilot on the new law enforcement helicopter that will be servicing the county and the city of Madison, summed up his role in one sentence. "We're looking for people who are up to no good," he said. In addition to looking for criminal suspects and fugitives, both the Madison County Sheriff's Department and the Madison Police Department will be able to use the new helicopter on all sorts of missions, including crime-fighting and search-and-rescue operations. The Board of Supervisors and the Madison Board of Aldermen approved a contract on Monday and Tuesday, respectively, which will allow the law enforcement officers to call on the services of a law enforcement helicopter (run by Metro One) that can be at any location in the county within a few minutes. The agreements are the latest in a number of recent contracts that local municipalities have signed with Metro One (which is owned by Mercury Aviation). Ridgeland contracted Metro One's helicopter last week at a cost of $10,000 for one year. Hinds County also entered into an agreement to utilize it on Monday. Sheriff Toby Trowbridge said that having the helicopter, which will cost the county $25,000 a year, represents "an invaluable tool" and an important step forward in the kind of protection he wants to provide county residents. "Anytime you can save manpower, equipment, and the lives of deputies and citizens, $25,000 is a small price to pay," said Trowbridge. Madison Police Chief Gene Waldrop called the use of the helicopter "a win-win situation for everybody." The helicopter is based in Flowood and will be shared amongst the municipalities based on a weekly schedule.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T16:36:34-06:00

ID

67234

Comment

Which is it Ladd? Am I making no sense or trying to muddy the waters? And both is not an answer. If I am making no sense then there should be no way to tell that I am trying to muddy the waters. If Tom's comprehension is up to par he should be able to answer the question that he himself asked...Fair enough? Another point, I never said you said fight crime in ONLY rich neighborhoods. I would think that you meant fight crimes in rich neighborhoods (as well as poor). "Alone" was not describing areas, it was describing "personal income". Hope that is some Clarification.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T17:02:49-06:00

ID

67235

Comment

Colby, this is getting really stupid and is putting on a rather unimpressive display for our outside visitors (hey, y'all). You have made several statements. Some of them put words in my mouth, others make no sense, others are trying to muddy the waters. As for the point in contention. You wrote: Ladd, how is fighting a drug problem in areas based on personal income alone not descriminating? Dude, I did not say this. You are simply being a fool if you think I did. I don't know how else to phrase it. Now, move on. People must be getting dizzy at this point. Back to the spycopter post-frackin-haste.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T17:23:40-06:00

ID

67236

Comment

Wow, I've never seen ya'll at a loss for words team JFP. Usually someone with a point against team JFP is chastised for not wanting to continue a disagreement. At one point it was referred to as "putting your tail b/w your (our) legs and running away". But the head of the house says move on, I'll move on. I think the chopper is flying overhead anyway.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-03T17:55:26-06:00

ID

67237

Comment

colby, you are crazy. I mean it, certifiably bonkers if these posts are any indication. I don't think you're reading your own posts, much less anyone else's. Of course, your goal is probably to change the subject, and I'm allowing you to do that by feeding the troll. You don't have a stake in that spycopter, do you? ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-03T17:57:42-06:00

ID

67238

Comment

Actually people have a right to privacy in their homes but not in the streets or in their open yards as I understand it. Using some kind of special lighting to see into people houses without a search warrant or probable cause has to a violation of their rights to privacy. I will write more on this tomorrow after studying the issue a little. I wonder what would be the cause of action for suing the city for flying by/over and shining lights onto people streets or yards. I can't see any. And I can't see the cause of action for any unwanted noise created by valid police work. I imagine the city's or police departments's duty to stop and investigate crime would overide or preempt any rights we have to stop them from flying the copter. I hope they have not only special lighting but special listening devices too. There ain't no telling what they're saying in those middle class and affluent neighborhoods. We could probably stop over half the drugs from coming into our communities with this type of surveillance. The thing that made Frank special is that he said the hell with the constitutions, people's rights, people's expectations or other concerns, and just pass me the dope before I go completely John Wayne on you.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-03T17:58:44-06:00

ID

67239

Comment

Yeah, but the thing that didn't make Frank special is that his commitment to this philosophy stops at the east curb of Gallatin. Something tells me that, whatever the appearances might be now, the spycopter will amount to one more opportunity to harass west Jackson residents. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-03T18:48:00-06:00

ID

67240

Comment

"colby, you are crazy" please note rule 1. Personal ("ad hominem") attacks either of other posters or any individual. (Example: "You are stupid"; "he is racist.") However, comments such as "I believe his actions are racist because ..." are more acceptable, as long as they are made in the spirit of true dialogue. perhaps "colby, your arguments are crazy" would be more appropriate.

Author

djames

Date

2007-01-04T00:56:18-06:00

ID

67241

Comment

And once again, reading comprehension becomes important. The User Agreement very clearly states (prior to the "ad hominem" guideline): Jackson Free Press management reserves the right to delete posts or comments for any reason, although we are under no obligation to do so ... In specific, your comments may be deleted or edited at our discretion if they contain the following ... So what you're basically saying, by citing the User Agreement, is that Donna has the right to delete her own post if she wants to. But I think she already knew that. Anything else? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-04T06:33:30-06:00

ID

67242

Comment

Ray: you are correct. There is already case law on this issue. Being in your backyard, you have no expectation of privacy from the air. By the way, in a few years, it won't be copters, it will be drones.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-01-04T10:20:29-06:00

ID

67243

Comment

I know Tom. For those who don't already know. I was only joking about having the police spy into people's homes with special lighting and listening devices.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-04T10:25:13-06:00

ID

67244

Comment

Thanks King.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-04T10:42:56-06:00

ID

67245

Comment

One of my favorite moments on the JFP site is when a troll throws my own User Agreement at me. I guess they don't pay attention to the fact that ALL BETS ARE OFF (at least for the owner/moderator) when they start displaying troll behavior. No, djames, I think he's crazy. In that Southern way that we use the word, of course. I also think Head is crazy, but don't tell him.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-04T11:08:34-06:00

ID

67246

Comment

airlock.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-01-04T11:09:18-06:00

ID

67247

Comment

Thats O.K. ladd. No hard feelings against you or anyone else on team JFP, no matter what you/they call me. I dont get my feelings hurt that easily. As ya'll were...

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-04T12:00:49-06:00

ID

67248

Comment

Except, Ray, that the helicopter is not a police vehicle. How then can it be engaged in "valid police work"? And if it is not engaged in police work, couldn't one file a noise complaint against it, because it is a private helicopter flown by a private company?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-04T16:19:28-06:00

ID

67249

Comment

I need to go back and carefully read the article as I clearly assumed it was being flown and used solely for police work. I'll get back with you. If not doing police work then I know of no reason complaints and suits can't be lodged.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-04T16:29:37-06:00

ID

67250

Comment

Damn thing was buzzing Fondren last night... Low and loud. Thing flew over several times to the point where I literally had to turn the TV up. Looked like it was pacing from Eastover to Fondren. Interestingly, no police cars doing the same route. Did I mention it had nearly all neighborhood dogs barking and further disturbing the peace?

Author

kaust

Date

2007-01-04T16:51:12-06:00

ID

67251

Comment

So much for quality of life, eh? Nothing like making Jackson look like a nightly war zone to help economic development. Sure hope they have a LOT to show for this thing every single frackin' week.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-04T16:54:39-06:00

ID

67252

Comment

boys and their toys..................

Author

ATLExile

Date

2007-01-04T17:05:56-06:00

ID

67253

Comment

I'm really starting to hope Clinton doesn't jump on the skycop bandwagon. We got enough problems with the trains being loud. :)

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2007-01-04T17:20:21-06:00

ID

67254

Comment

This was already posted to the Wired thread, but I thought people here might have missed it. Mull it over. This is from chapter 6 of the FAA's Interagency Helicopter Operations Guide: IV. Day/Night Flight Limitations. A. Day Visual Flight Rules (VFR) Only. Except as noted below, or for reasons of life-or-death emergency, single-engine helicopters shall be limited to flight during daylight hours and only under VFR conditions (minimum 1/2 mile visibility). Daylight hours are defined as 30 minutes before official sunrise until 30 minutes after official sunset, or, in Alaska, during extended twilight hours when the terrain features are readily distinguishable for a distance of at least one mile. 6-3 CAUTION: In mountainous or hilly terrain, compounded by the aspect of the terrain in relationship to the sun's position, one may experience late dawn or early dusk conditions. Flight periods should be adjusted accordingly. Daylight hours may be further limited at the discretion of the Pilot or Helicopter Manager by conditions of visibility caused by smoke, shadows, etc. B. Authorization For Night-Flying Operations. Night operations are unique and require agency-specific authorizations.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-04T17:29:17-06:00

ID

67255

Comment

People should just go down to the precincts and turn the dope in. I know we did in Ridgeland. That's why they're not flying over us. I wrote a letter telling them to check with Madison as I'm sure there is some big-time dope up there. Alright I finally read the article as opposed to scanning. Adam did even a better job than I imagined. It seems the issues are covered. Since this isn't police work, it seems that the protections offered to safequard us from illegal and overpowering intrusions by the police (guvment) aren't in place or don't apply. Conequently, we ought to be able to sue the operators even more so and without any immunity to be concerned with. However, you still have to file something actionable - something a cause of action is recognized for and relief can be granted by a court of law. We may have a better chance at arguing violations of federal or state statutes on flyover rather than any personal actions. And maybe an injunction is an option. It seems to me that the biggest concern would be whether what they obtain can be used in court against anyone. If anyone knows of some personal actions we can file please inform me. I have the John Grisham disease of hating research unless there isn't any way around it. But I will make a cursory effort to see what exist.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-04T17:30:10-06:00

ID

67256

Comment

Well, you know Ray that police-mayoral investigators in Jackson aren't overly concerned with whether the evidence is actually admissible. It's all about cartoonish crime-fighting play acting. Boys and their toys, indeed.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-04T17:33:43-06:00

ID

67257

Comment

Donna writes: Well, you know Ray that police-mayoral investigators in Jackson aren't overly concerned with whether the evidence is actually admissible. I think they'd actually rather it isn't--because then they get to blame Peterson for the acquittals or dropped charges when they run their stooge against her in 2007. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-04T17:43:59-06:00

ID

67258

Comment

I just added a link to the Memorandum of Understanding that the city signed with Metro One.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-04T18:13:15-06:00

ID

67259

Comment

True, Tom. Sometimes it does look like it's more important to bash Peterson than to actually fight crime. One has to wonder why that is, especially considering what a bad D.A. we had before her. (The possibilities are disturbing.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-04T18:17:54-06:00

ID

67260

Comment

So, we have "independent contractors" flying a pseudo-police helicopter at night? Where, people, is the accountability here?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-04T18:23:08-06:00

ID

67261

Comment

I hate to say this, but for the most part, all of you are idiots. I thought, wehn I started reading the posts under this article, that I would be able to have some intelligent conversation. The fact is that Frank had nothing to do with the helicopter, it wasn't his idea, and it didn't need his approval for the city of Jackson to use the helicopter. As for the noise complaints, where do I even begin? If you live next to an airport, or interstate and the noise is too loud, then move. The greater good is what we are trying to achieve. I know for a fact that the helicopter doesn't "hover" over any area for any length of time unless it was reason to. So, if it was hovering over downtown Jackson, it was probably because they were helping make an arrest. Secondly, the helicopter isn't even loud enough to be an annoyance; it flies anywhere from 1000 to 1500 feet as do all helicopters in this line of work; that is a little under a quarter of a mile. This isn't some rocket powered chopper, it is the size of a honda. I could go on and on about this! It sounds to me like some people who didn't know what they were talking about made their minds up that they didn't like something and started to whine like they were back in elementary school. Also, why is it that everyone wants to complain about crime, but protect criminals?

Author

mikejayray

Date

2007-01-05T16:44:02-06:00

ID

67262

Comment

Mikejayray, you sure do know how to make an entrance. Did you grow up in a barn? Now, as for Frank having anything to do with the helicopter, I believe he signed the memorandum of understanding between Metro One and the city. I'd call that "something to do with it." However, Melton isn't the biggest issue. Neither is the noise, although noise certainly contributes to quality of life, especially late at night. (Didn't we pass a noise ordinance recently for just that reason?) Obviously, we're not talking about noise just next to an interstate or an airport where people chose to live and invest in property, we're talking about everywhere, late at night. Thus, your statement about just "move" is sheer stupidity. (I hung out in a barn from time to time, too. Thanks for bringing it out of me.) Now, as for the rest of your comment, you are avoiding the biggest issues here: potential legality issues (as in those FAA regs), accountability of "independent contractors" playing cop in the air above our homes, non-police officers spying on American citizens, to name just three big ones. (BTW, if it's the "size of a Honda," how does that mesh with those FAA regs about single-engine copters not flying at night unless they're flown by law-enforcement officers?) Mike, it sounds like you got a dog in this hunt. That's fine, but you're going to have to do better than hurling a bunch of personal attacks, and trying to change the subject, to overcome our concerns about this spycopter and how it's gone down. And save the "protect criminals" bullsh!t. Demanding that things are done right, legal and safe has nothing to do with protecting criminals. And, by the way, we have some real concerns about the evidence gathered by boys-playing-cops even being admissible evidence, so don't talk to me about protecting criminals. It could be that apprehension by Jackson's new spycopter is the exact protection they need in a court of law. Work harder, Mike.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-05T17:02:54-06:00

ID

67263

Comment

And the only one whining like thy're in elementary school here would be you.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-05T17:03:32-06:00

ID

67264

Comment

It must be Friday afternoon! Time for folks to start knocking back tequila shots, and making jackasses of themselves on the JFP web site. fun time! I still want to know why we have money to maintain a freakin' helicopter, but not enough money for the CRIME PREVENTION UNIT! I really like statements like this one: Also, why is it that everyone wants to complain about crime, but protect criminals? Because it's such a classic in the annals of mindless rhetoric. Also, I've heard the helicopter. I don't care if it's the size of a honda. It's annoying. Another classic: It sounds to me like some people who didn't know what they were talking about made their minds up that they didn't like something and started to whine like they were back in elementary school. Sounds to me like you made up your mind that the helicopter is GOOD, and therefore CANNOT be too loud for anyone. Because if we can hear it, and think it's loud, well, that's just wrong, because it's "the size of a honda". Evidence of my own ears be dammed, by god! I've seen the light! You TELL ME it CAN'T be loud, so I must be hearing thing! Thanks for clearing that up!

Author

kate

Date

2007-01-05T17:24:45-06:00

ID

67265

Comment

I know, Kate. We haven't had Friday afternoon drinking games on the blog in a while, eh? (Don't worry, Tom, you don't actually have to drink ... just pretend. No one will know. ) And somehow the idea of a Honda buzzing around above my house doesn't make me feel safer. Call me an idiot. Drink.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-05T17:36:47-06:00

ID

67266

Comment

mikejayray, as someone who hears the helicopter on a near nightly basis, I will loudly say it: THE EFFING HELICOPTER IS AUDIBLE... EVEN MY DEAF DOG BARKS WHEN IT FLIES OVER REPEATEDLY IN NORTH FONDREN. If the deaf dog can sense the vibrations, the noise it is producing is significant. He doesn't bark when a delivery semi drives down Meadowbrook.... He doesn't bark when a firetruck plows through... He barks when the helicopter flies over repeatedly. Having to turn up the volume on my television at 9pm to understand what's being said (without closed captioning) is yet another example. And, if you believe that thing is a 1/4 of a mile in the air, you must be high. I could have pegged it with a rock the other night using only my arms. When you can make out lights inside the helicopter, you either have very good eyes or the damned thing is too low.

Author

kaust

Date

2007-01-05T17:44:09-06:00

ID

67267

Comment

"And somehow the idea of a Honda buzzing around above my house doesn't make me feel safer. Call me an idiot." - ladd Well, it's better than a gas-guzzling GM. ;-) <>

Author

kaust

Date

2007-01-05T17:45:21-06:00

ID

67268

Comment

mikejayray, I'll also say that UMC's Medivac flies over regularly... It's a whisper compared to Metro One. If the thing is in pursuit, I'm curious why I never see police officers in the area, hear sirens, or see reports on the news of a chopper-worthy crime? Just sayin'.

Author

kaust

Date

2007-01-05T17:47:04-06:00

ID

67269

Comment

Donna writes: (Don't worry, Tom, you don't actually have to drink ... just pretend. No one will know. ) Pffft. Didn't you read my New Year's Resolutions? That ACLU white chocolate martini corrupted me! Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-05T17:59:45-06:00

ID

67270

Comment

(And I've vowed to split a pitcher of margaritas with a certain NOW sister...)

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-05T18:00:37-06:00

ID

67271

Comment

Well, a pitcher with a group. If I tried to split a whole pitcher with one person, that would be a little bit embarrassing for everybody! Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-05T18:01:21-06:00

ID

67272

Comment

I saw a chopper a few minutes ago right outside McDade's, by the way. I assumed it was the spycopter because it didn't look like a Medivac, and it was awfully low--but it didn't make much racket, probably because it was a good ways off. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-05T18:02:39-06:00

ID

67273

Comment

I was right outside McDade's and saw the chopper, rather. The chopper wasn't right outside McDade's. That would have been newsworthy. (And I'm the one who hasn't been drinking?) Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-05T18:03:20-06:00

ID

67274

Comment

**mikejayray, as someone who hears the helicopter on a near nightly basis, I will loudly say it: THE EFFING HELICOPTER IS AUDIBLE... EVEN MY DEAF DOG BARKS WHEN IT FLIES OVER REPEATEDLY IN NORTH FONDREN.** <-- Knol Aust, 4:44 p.m. post I think the DEAF DOG could use a drink as soon as he lands in the McDade's parking lot in Fondren, panting frantically, and folds up his hairy wings, unpacks his high-intensity light with battery pack, and removes his gigantic hearing aid! I couldn't help ROFLMAO at that picture in my mind's eye, Knol. (it's a double shot, you know!)

Author

Kacy

Date

2007-01-05T18:53:25-06:00

ID

67275

Comment

why are ya'll picking on me?

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-01-05T18:54:05-06:00

ID

67276

Comment

Tom, that was the Medivac... Was outside playing with my dogs and saw it about the time that you posted this. I'm guessing it was a mostly white 'copter? If so, that's UMCs. BTW, in theory, I am not against a police 'copter... I'd prefer it was operated by JPD or HCSD not some potentially rogue private venture. I'd also prefer it stay higher in the air unless pursuing someone specifically to reduce the noise it does make.

Author

kaust

Date

2007-01-05T18:55:51-06:00

ID

67277

Comment

The one I saw looked black or gray or navy blue, actually--that's what threw me a little... It didn't look much like the Medivac I usually see. (I meant the McDade's off Fortification rather than the one in Fondren, I should clarify!) Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-05T19:10:41-06:00

ID

67278

Comment

Ahhh.... Then it probably was Metro One.

Author

kaust

Date

2007-01-05T19:50:09-06:00

ID

67279

Comment

One question. With helicopters, it's not the size of the engine that makes the noise, is it? It's the freakin' blades? I mean, there's no such thing as a "stealth" helicopter, is there?

Author

kate

Date

2007-01-06T09:29:11-06:00

ID

67280

Comment

You're right. Technically there is such a thing as a stealth helicopter, but it isn't silent--though my understanding is that there are ways to reduce the amount of noise the blades make to a relatively stealthy level. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-06T09:35:35-06:00

ID

67281

Comment

There IS a steath helicopter. It's called a hot air balloon.

Author

GLB

Date

2007-01-06T13:07:03-06:00

ID

67282

Comment

Very funny, GLB. In fact, if they had thought outside the box and given us a hot air balloon, we'd be in a very different situation now, wouldn't we? Sure, it wouldn't be so great at the pursuit aspects of the job, but we wouldn't have to worry about noise. I was asking this question right from the beginning: Will the helicopter have whisper mode, like Blue Thunder? Will it have a seasoned pilot like Roy Scheider at the controls? If not, will the pilot at least play the cello on a pier overlooking a pristine mountain lake, like the guy from Air Wolf, while he thinks over what he did the previous day/episode? If not, count me out.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-06T14:04:11-06:00

ID

67283

Comment

Hi everybody. I thought HDMatthias had left town since we rarely hear from her these days. This weekend she wrote me a scathing email. I still love her though. I know I'm doing well when I can make the HD's of the world this angry. This is what she wrote me - "Your statement on the JFP blog about the skycopter regarding the rich and middle class is, without a doubt, the stupidiest, most ignorant thing you have ever written. It does nothing but inflame folks and reveal your hatred and prejudices. I suggest you find more efficient outlets for your ideas." My fellow friends, if any, don't fret for me. HD doesn't have a problem talking about the poor like they're dogs but is angry I said something not complimentary of the rich and middle class. What bullcrap? What an elitist? How full of yourself can you be? What stupid and ignorant comments, if I can borrow from her well-educated and uppity upbringings and shenanigans. Y'all had better watch what you say on here because she's reading and will jump your behind whenever you write someting she disagrees with. I was kidding when I wrote it but am glad I did it. There must be some revealing truths to those comments.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-08T10:16:41-06:00

ID

67284

Comment

HD was too chicken to put her comments about me here. If you're reading this HD why not have the civil discussion on the matter here. Let's see how my mere Tougaloo and Thurgood Marshall education would hold up to yours. Sho Nuff.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-08T10:43:08-06:00

ID

67285

Comment

I know what you mean Ray.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-08T10:46:13-06:00

ID

67286

Comment

Yeah, I remember distinctly the Doc blaming most of the world's ills on young single mothers—"without a doubt, the stupidiest, most ignorant thing [she has] ever written." Or one of them. Thanks for posting the comments, Ray. People need to hear how people of privilege talk in private to those they think are beneath them. BTW, the helicopter was keeping me awake just before midnight last night—circling up above. It didn't seem in hot pursuit of anything as far as I could tell.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-08T10:47:47-06:00

ID

67287

Comment

Ray, thanks for posting that here. That took guts. If you think what she's telling YOU sounds rough, imagine what she says to audiences she perceives as friendly to her ideas. I just sent Brian an email about some of my own experiences with Jackson's upper class white establishment. There are so many stories I could tell here that would get my butt sued, and they're all true. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-08T10:57:43-06:00

ID

67288

Comment

Donna, maybe it was chasing a squirrel? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-08T10:58:04-06:00

ID

67289

Comment

By the way, Ray, I liked your comment about upper- and middle-class whites and, being a middle-class white myself, took it in the spirit in which it was intended. It would be nice if drug laws weren't just an excuse to lock up non-whites, which is what they have always basically been. Hell, marijuana would probably still be legal if it wasn't perceived during the 1930s as the drug of choice for Mexican illegal immigrants. And crack would generate no more jail time than powdered cocaine if it weren't sold and consumed primarily by blacks. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-08T11:00:15-06:00

ID

67290

Comment

Yeah, now that you mention it, I did see a squirrel scampering down North State Street with his cap backward.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-08T11:32:35-06:00

ID

67291

Comment

It was a gangsta squirrel. Gotta keep an eye on them.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-08T12:45:19-06:00

ID

67292

Comment

I'm not defending the helicopter, the company, or the city, but have to jump in with a clarification of the 'FAA REGS' everyone keeps refering to. Those are not FAA Regulations. Those are internal regulations from the National Intraagency Fire Center. They pertain to the use of helicopter operations by that specific agency. The actual FAA regs actually REQUIRE a pilot to maintain flight hours at night in order to gain and keep his license.

Author

Twells

Date

2007-01-08T13:09:26-06:00

ID

67293

Comment

The commando squirrels hang out in Smith Park. You'll find out if you take a bag of peanuts and sit down on a bench. I had one on my knee once...

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2007-01-08T13:55:01-06:00

ID

67294

Comment

I hope the spycopter is making a dent in the high usuage of powder cocaine, escstasy, crstal meth, and the various other types of prescription pills and drugs confiscated from the various pharmacies that the middle class and affluent use on a daily basis to escape their ugly selves, to provide instant self-esteem and amnesia from the thievery and abuse of the poor that made many of them affluent, and to anesthetize themselves from the ugly world that the rest of us choose to soberly live in. A good friend of mines worked for a major hospital in Baton Rouge as a pharmacist. On one major occasion some cocaine came up misssing from the hospital's pharmacy where he worked and he knew his complexion alone made him an instant suspect. He agreed to a drug test after showing his butt quite extensively as we trained him and he came up clean as we all knew he would. Testings proceeded straight ahead and it was determined that another pharmacist of another racial persuasion and a physician of another racial persuasion had a pronounced drug problem. As expected they were sent to rehab and not immediately fired. My friend has been there now probably 25 years or better and he still doubts he would have been sent to rehab and retained in employment. It's not a scretch or a falsehood to state there is illegal drug usuage, sale or provision in the middle class and affluent neighborhoods of the country. I'm out on this one, and I hope I still have some friends left.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-08T14:30:39-06:00

ID

67295

Comment

There goes Ray, again. Throwing the "white drug problem" around without a bit of evidence.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-08T21:47:49-06:00

ID

67296

Comment

I've never seen such whining. Grow a backbone, report your drug-using neighbors, clean up your neighborhoods, and maybe there won't be a need for a helicopter.

Author

turbodog

Date

2007-01-08T21:49:58-06:00

ID

67297

Comment

That post by MikeJayRay is what scares me when I think about the future of the country. "Trade your freedoms for a perceived increase in your security and you will have neither" said some famous guy. How poignant given todays White House and people like him so willing to trade away their liberties. And TurboDog, that process was tried and failed. See Nazism and Russia circa 1947 - 1989. Happy to post links with numerous examples if you need them. Also not working well in China where mere accusations of drug dealing get you a bullet in the head in a once a month ritual. A mixed message at best.

Author

Doc Rogers

Date

2007-01-08T22:23:43-06:00

ID

67298

Comment

turbodog: But will the trains run on time? I agree with Ray's hypothesis about widespread white drug use, but I don't have any evidence to back it up right now. Primarily because it's 9am. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-09T10:01:42-06:00

ID

67299

Comment

This isn't whining, Turbodog--we call it an extended middle finger. How about you grow a backbone, and maybe over time that thing we call a brain will sprout from the end of it? Ray, I'm totally with you. Just going over the drug incarceration data will make it clear that white people are deeply involved in consuming and distributing illegal drugs. It might be harder to come up with class data, which I agree would be distorted by both lower arrest and conviction rates. In other words, cops are likelier to let a white guy in a suit off when they catch him with drugs. Even if they don't, said white guy is likelier to have a good lawyer who will get him off or at least make the punishment light. It's press day, but maybe Tom can dig something up for us?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-09T10:25:06-06:00

ID

67300

Comment

As for FAA regulations, Twells is right. The FAA finally got back in touch with me yesterday--federal bureacracies can turn on the head of a dime and return phone calls at the speed of thought--and confirmed what you wrote. I'm not sure where the Wired folks got their regulations, but FAA Inspector Theo Mauridoglou told me that there are no FAA restrictions on what kind of helicopter can fly at night. There are some such restrictions in Europe, but not here. He also said that in order to hold a helicopter pilot's license, you must be qualified to fly at night. Up until 1997. he said, there were two classes of license, one of which was good during daylight hours only. However, they changed the rules then and required all pilots to qualify for night flight. So as far as the FAA is concerned, the helicopter can fly at night.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-09T10:30:23-06:00

ID

67301

Comment

Brian, are you going to print the correction on the FAA regs or do you want me to do it? Good research Team JFP.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-09T11:49:04-06:00

ID

67302

Comment

There's no need to print a correction, Colby, because we never printed anything about the FAA regs. We never printed anything about those regs because we had not yet gotten through to the FAA. As for what we've written in this thread, what I wrote above is the correction. Also, note that when I posted what we originally believed to be the applicable regulations, I said that they were posted to the Wired blog, which I reproduced here. When we talked about these regs on our radio show on Friday, we stressed that we did not know that these were the actual FAA rules, but that we were trying to figure it out. Even if we had asserted without qualification that those were the regs, printing a correction here would satisfy time and manner requirements. Does that answer your question, mon petite chou?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-09T12:01:40-06:00

ID

67303

Comment

It is good research, colby. We got an answer to an important question raised about this helicopter and published it as soon as we got it. We were willing to raise questions, which is more than we can say for other local on this point. The difference between us andd them, and 21 century media vs. old-fashioned, is that we are willing to raise questions before we have all the answers in order to involve the public in the process. Of course, none of our other numerous questions or concerns about the helicopter have yet been answered. Stay tuned. You'll be the first to know.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T12:33:43-06:00

ID

67304

Comment

Thanks ladd, I understand now that if you state/write/blog/stress/print wrong info it is considered raising questions not stating/writing/blogging/stressing/printing wrong info. Gotcha... And "bless you" Brian.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-09T12:53:03-06:00

ID

67305

Comment

I've never seen such whining. Grow a backbone, report your drug-using neighbors, clean up your neighborhoods, and maybe there won't be a need for a helicopter. You've got it exactly backward, turbo. The problem is that Jacksonians do not need some false sense of security buzzing overhead (and with minimal accountability) because boys like to play with expensive toys. In order to have true community policing (which is what you're touching on, whether you realize it or not), every citizen has to do their part to make the city safer—whether it's following suspicious people in their neighborhoods (as I did this a.m.) and reporting them if they seem to be a problem (as I've done many times), investing in education and mentoring, investing in neighborhood clean-up (in smart ways), and so on. That is, indeed, what is needed -- you've presented an extremely faulty dilemma in arguing that it's either that or a helicopter. Any resources that go into a helicopter (that actually creates an police-state atmosphere, which can increase crime; do your homework) could actually go in to real community-policing efforts. Instead we have a mayor and a chief that dismantling those kinds of efforts and decreasing the ranks and morale of the police depertment. A demoralizing PD will not be an effective community-policing tool. Can't. And I assume you're aware that "reporting your drug-using neighbors" would include calling the cops on rich white guys who smoke pot and snort a bit of coke as well. I know some rich white Republicans who whine about thugs and drugs; meantime, the hypocrites gather outside the city limits and smoke pot on the weekends. I assume you mean them, too? Just checking.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T12:54:43-06:00

ID

67306

Comment

What you're missing, colby, intentionally I assume is that raising questions is not printing something as fact. That we haven't done, either here or on the radio. We didn't know if those regs and never said we did. And unlike some other media outlets, we jump at the chance to print the answers when we get them, letting the chips fall where they may. I'm sorry if this new-fangled approach to information-gathering and sharing offends you so. It's at the heart of the citizen-journalism movement.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T12:58:47-06:00

ID

67307

Comment

Colby is being deliberately obtuse on the assumption that people reading this thread will be just smart enough to read sentences, but not smart enough to read paragraphs. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-01-09T13:17:11-06:00

ID

67308

Comment

Ladd, what has your experience been in dealing with the JPD for such routine neighborhood watch incidents? Perhaps they are more responsive to an esteemed member of the local media than the average citizen.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2007-01-09T13:23:08-06:00

ID

67309

Comment

If that is the case, Tom, I think colby misjudges the readership of the Jackson Free Press. These kids can think. ;-) Actually, I've always had good experiences with the police I've dealt with—typically the same woman in Precinct 4, it seems. Of course, as someone who cut my police teeth with cops from the 9th Precinct in NYC, I don't expect them to sit down and start bawling next to me because, say, my car was broken into because I left something alluring lying on the car seat. I don't want cops to act that way; I want them to be a bit distant and cold and focused on getting their job down. And when my car was broken into, they dusted for prints without asking (and, I believe, then not knowing who I was; that might be harder now). Meantime, she and I both knew that dusting my car for prints was probably a waste of her time. I can't overstate that I think many—although not all—of the stories I hear from people complaining about police officers seem to be about the cops not getting all upset and doting over them because they had suffered a property crime. That's not the cops' job to do. Also, many of the stories turn out to be naive once you investigate them—the criminal may simply not have committed the crime (under state law) that the person thought they should be categeorized under. This was true in NYC, too. I was friends with the commander of the 9th back then, and really saw the citizen-police dynamic up close and personal. And he was the commander who brought community policing to NYC, and really pushed police officers to be more responsive to the citizens. However, the citizens often expect therapy, rather than plain old police work. There is responsibility both ways. I remember a friend who left a checkbook in his car, and it was broken into. The truth is, a cop who sees all sorts of mayhem and violence is only going to cry so much on your behalf when you do that. That's the point where personal responsibility comes in.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T14:25:45-06:00

ID

67310

Comment

Donna, Tom, once again I respect your journalism. Donna, there is no reason to apologize. Me? Get offended? Not so much... Just practice what you preach.

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-09T14:35:52-06:00

ID

67311

Comment

We are practicing exactly what we preach, colby. Otherwise, we wouldn't have answered our own question front and center in the same forum where we raised it (or, actually, reported that others had raised it). Thanks for all your concern, though.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T14:38:47-06:00

ID

67312

Comment

You are quite welcome...

Author

colby

Date

2007-01-09T15:08:48-06:00

ID

67313

Comment

Ironghost wrote: "There goes Ray, again. Throwing the "white drug problem" around without a bit of evidence. " According to "the National Institute on Drug Abuse. Epidemiologic trends in drug abuse. Vol. I-II. Rockville, MD: National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, 1994. (NIH Publication nos. 94-3745, 3746.)": "The overall prevalence of drug use does not differ greatly among white, African American, and Hispanic populations, but patterns of drug use may differ." This is just one of many studies showing whites use drugs at levels comparable to other ethnic groups and we KNOW it is mainly minorities who are targeted for long jail terms even though minorities do not own the boats, trucking companies and planes that it is coming in on. The war on drugs (as it has been implemented) is a proxy war.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-01-09T15:58:34-06:00

ID

67314

Comment

Ironghost, are you intentionally being obtuse? Can you possibly deny that there is a "white" drug problem that is prosecuted less often, and less harshly, than drug problems in communities of color. Come on. Such uber-white defensiveness is downright offensive to this white girl. It makes white folks look bad.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T16:09:36-06:00

ID

67315

Comment

I don't expect cops to cry or be any more empathetic than say a surgeon, as both professions require a certain amount of detachment, which can be misenterpreted by some as not caring. I DO expect professionalism and a commitment to at least act interested in solving property crimes. That is something I didn't see in the last year or two.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2007-01-09T16:18:57-06:00

ID

67316

Comment

I agree, ejeff. I did see it—at least from police officers during the last administration. I fear now that the morale is so low in the PD that many of them care about little other than whether a proverbial knife is about to stab their backs. That's what we're hearing from the inside, and that sure ain't gonna help lower crime in Jackson.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T16:21:31-06:00

ID

67317

Comment

Donna, there is a drug problem. It happens everywhere. Given Ray's constant implications that the problems in North Jackson eclipse the rest of it... It seems unfounded to me.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-09T19:57:26-06:00

ID

67318

Comment

I don't think you're listening carefully to Ray (although I know his propensity toward satire muddies the water a bit). I don't believe he's said anything about "eclipse," has he? Although, certainly one can argue that the "white" and well-to-do demand for cocaine may well "eclipse" the demand for the cheaper crack cocaine in poor neighborhoods—even as prosecutions and hyster for the latter eclipse the former. And the pot hypocrisy of white folks toward black ones is remarkable. We all know this is true. Unless we truly have our heads buried in lily-white sand. It's a no-brainer.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T20:11:11-06:00

ID

67319

Comment

It's also interesting to note a certain double standard in our societal dialogue—that is, how quick white folks are to point out that certain problems are staples in the black community (you know, like welfare mothers and thuggery), but when white folks are singled out, then it's suddenly "everybody" who does it. And, ironically, this often happens in a conversation that started out to equalize the dialogue and to get white people to admit that people who look like them do the same things, and sometimes worse! Of course, the problem in the first place is that these problems happen in all communities and among all classes and races of people. Therefore, it's a big-ass problem that a particular race or group (as in non-white) bear the brunt of the blame, and the prosecution, and the jail time, etc. That is exactly what Ray and I are talking about. It resonates when the tables are turned, eh?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T20:22:52-06:00

ID

67320

Comment

I don't recall ever saying anything like that, Donna. I'm simply tired of Ray's constant "Satire", if that's what it is. I've been accused of not having a sense of humor, and honestly I've never needed one.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-09T20:43:54-06:00

ID

67321

Comment

I think we should all agree that the whole damn city is crawling with drugs. And the suburbs are crawling with drugs. We're on one of the biggest drug highways in the country, and the police intercept the merest fraction of the traffic. I am quite certain that lots of white people do lots of different kinds of drugs in Madison, just as they do in African American neighborhoods in Jackson. That said, however, the helicopter is only particularly useful for finding meth labs with its infrared camera. For what it's worth, meth is predominately a white drug. I do wonder what will happen when the private helicopter detects an unusual heat source on its camera, and a private pilot calls the address into a police dispatcher. Presumably, a judge would grant a search order on such evidence, but would a court uphold the convictions?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2007-01-09T22:11:31-06:00

ID

67322

Comment

Thanks Brian for bringing focus back to the thread. A "private snoop dog" working for the government raises many bad questions. As for the white/black who does drugs comments, just read the Rankin Gannett owned op ed police bookings and judging by the names/locations, the locals in Rankin are arresting white folks for having drugs at an alarming rate. Maybe selecting people for prosecution is a Hinds problem? But class has it's privileges, see stories on drunk supreme court justices and acquittals.

Author

Doc Rogers

Date

2007-01-09T22:33:03-06:00

ID

67323

Comment

Good comments, all. One thing, Doc, being arrested for drugs doesn't mean that you do the same time for them. Also, when looking at racial disparities in the criminal-justice system, you can't just compare "drug" arrests, you have to look at arrests, sentences and time served for similar types of drug offenses. And, certainly, there is a class aspect to all of this, in addition to the race angle (not instead of). I suspect you won't find a lot of rich folks in Rankin County being arrested on drug offenses. Does that mean they're not doing any? We don't need to answer that.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T22:40:51-06:00

ID

67324

Comment

Agreed, and frankly, my views are "why are we locking up drug users?" It's way disproportionate. And before y'all think I'm a bleeding heart, I'm thinking my tax dollars. It cost way less to rehab than to incarcerate. And the way the law is applied, locking away 20% of anybody is bad government. My Libertarian view getting in the way again. And I'll restate, "class has it's privleges", in this State, it pays to know someone. Donate liberally!

Author

Doc Rogers

Date

2007-01-09T22:53:44-06:00

ID

67325

Comment

Actually, Doc, I'm against the drug war for economic reasons as well (and who in the world would want to be known as a "bleeding heart"!?! How awful ). Seriously, my libertarian side comes out on this one, too; the drug war is bad on all fronts. Oh, and it doesn't work. 'Nuff said.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T22:57:52-06:00

ID

67326

Comment

Oh, and to allow my cynicism to show through, I don't believe I've ever seen a politician who supports the drug war whom I believe thinks that it actually will lower the incidence of drugs, drug abuse or drug violence. I thoroughly believe it's *always* a cheap way to get votes, much like Clinton's support of the CDA, which I mentioned on another thread.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T22:59:23-06:00

ID

67327

Comment

I hesitate to think what America would be like with rampant drugs running around. We have problems with kids thinking sex is fine as it is.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-09T23:01:14-06:00

ID

67328

Comment

Iron, are you saying you think we would have a bigger drug problem if we didn't try to fight the drug war, ensuring a black market and violence?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T23:02:48-06:00

ID

67329

Comment

(I used to think that, too, by the way until I started paying closer attention and doing my homework. I was a big supporter of a "war on drugs" until about a decade ago.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T23:03:49-06:00

ID

67330

Comment

War on Drugs is like the War on Poverty. Another excuse to tax me more and take more of my civil liberties away. I used to believe that drug folks should be shot. Then I figured out, users were mostly blameless due to addiction, rehab them, don't jail them . Dealers, I say shoot them. The havoc they wreak is unmentionable. But the poor application of death penalty makes me rethink this option. Send them to China?

Author

Doc Rogers

Date

2007-01-09T23:24:26-06:00

ID

67331

Comment

I do think that. I can't see human nature, which struggles with addictions to things that are legal, turning down something like Coke, Weed, Meth or whatever if it became legal to use. I don't believe that if we suddenly called it all off, that people would quietly stay home and get stoned. That they'd peacefully buy their drugs and carefully drive home. That they'd realize their limits, and get help when they did realize they were addicted. No, I don't have that kind of faith in humans.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-09T23:24:51-06:00

ID

67332

Comment

The problem with your argument is that they're not turning it down now, Iron. And they can't get help without being criminalized, thanks to the drug war. Your utopian view that the drug war is keeping the incidence of drugs down is just, unfortunately, backward. I used to make your exact same argument—until I was proved wrong, so I feel your pain. But it doesn't take much honest viewing of the world around you to see that the drug war is doing very little to stem drug addiction and abuse, and probably a whole lot to increase it. It undoubtedly is the cause of the worst drug violence. But the people who benefit the most from the prices of drugs due their illegality—many of them white folks, by the way—are not very concerned about stopping that violence.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T23:29:59-06:00

ID

67333

Comment

So... the answer is give up? What does that accomplish, outside of a nation of stoners?

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-09T23:32:38-06:00

ID

67334

Comment

Doc, it's the suppliers who are the real problem. And the governments that create their market—which includes ours.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T23:32:44-06:00

ID

67335

Comment

Ah, now if you wanna make Suppliers the #1 market for law enforcement I can agree there. You'd really have to to make a dent in the problem.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-01-09T23:37:20-06:00

ID

67336

Comment

Iron, who said the answer was "give up"??? Do you really think there is no choice between this dumbass "war on drugs" and giving up and not trying to cure addiction? Or the reasons that people become addicted in the first place? You need to understand that when drugs are piped into poor communities (often of color) by rich suppliers (often white), the goal is to get people addicted so they can hire poor, naive street dealers/kids to sell them the illegal drugs. Bizarrely, the film "Sugar Hill" is a good one to watch to help understand how this mess happened in the first place and who the real victims of the drug war are. Obviously, more effort/funding needs to go into drug treatment and addiciton prevention, not into fighting an -ism (that makes as much sense as the amorphous, Orwellian "war on terrorism" where the fronts shift, and the point is to fight the war, and use the war for cheap political gain and to keep the people ignorant. Lord, now I sound like More Rockin', but the truth is that the so-called "war on drugs" is a big, ugly thing with ugly consequences, intended and un-intended. Would it shock you if I told you that a big part of the reason for the initiation of the drug war is to keep another counter-culture movement like that of the '60s from happening and rocking the status quo in America? It's true; I have the evidence, and I will share it freely if I ever get time to write my war-on-kids book. Meantime, feel free to roll your eyes. BTW, that doesn't mean that I believe drug-soaked activism is the answer. I *hate* drugs; they make people stupid, and people smoking pot act some of the biggest, slowest dumbasses I've ever been around. Clearly, drugs helped kill the youth movements of the '60s—but we won't even talk about how a lot of THOSE drugs got where they were. Some day.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T23:41:27-06:00

ID

67337

Comment

Ah, now if you wanna make Suppliers the #1 market for law enforcement I can agree there. The only way to stop them is by removing the expensive, violenct black market for their wares. We're doing the opposite. And unfortunately, it's too politically expedient for politicians to do anything about. Most don't want to because it benefits them too much.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T23:43:07-06:00

ID

67338

Comment

Amen Ms. Ladd. Articulated my argument exactley. If you pull the money from the black market, the source goes down the tube. Proven over and over again around the world regardless of product. And I reached the same conclusion about the politicians. I almost wonder why we ran the Taliban out of Afghanistan. They killed the opium trade. Was somebodies balance sheet disrupted?

Author

Doc Rogers

Date

2007-01-09T23:56:16-06:00

ID

67339

Comment

I almost wonder why we ran the Taliban out of Afghanistan. They killed the opium trade. Was somebodies balance sheet disrupted? There are theories about that, you know. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-01-09T23:59:13-06:00

ID

67340

Comment

Once again, Donna, you're a genius. Sorry, I piss you off so much Ironghost. My goal, as often is the case, is to show the other side or view. You would like me better if I were a conformist or status quo person. However, I was born to analyze, question and to challenge things I believe are false and unfair. Many or most of us thought the world was flat. We now know it isn't. Lots of folks thought black folks couldn't compete or compare intellectually with whites. We now know that's a lie too. The truth is always better than folklore, gossip, legend. Truth doesn't just jump out and reveals itself. It often has to be sought, dug up and forced out.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-10T11:07:49-06:00

ID

67341

Comment

A special thanks to all the opened-minded and brillant people who blogs here of all racial persuasions, sexes and ideologies. I appreciate all of them - not just those who agrees with me. I recognize that I can be wrong, and I'm open to modification, change and correction. Believe it or not!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-10T11:11:13-06:00

ID

67342

Comment

Oh Yeay, Iron, I didn't have any evidence during segregated days. Once the country integrated, I got better exposed, and I became friends with many whites then got to see many things I always suspected. We're not very different from one another at all.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-01-10T11:28:30-06:00

ID

67343

Comment

"I hesitate to think what America would be like with rampant drugs running around. " Decriminalization of small amounts of relatively benign substances like marijuana (usually held by users) has resulted in a level of drug use in the Netherlands that is actually lower than here and many other countries. The Netherlands is not a nation of stoners with rampant drugs running all around. The billions that they would have spent on jails and cops can be spent on rehab centers and schools. When alcohol was illegal here all that it did was channel large amounts of money into organized crime, made millions into criminals and stimulated gang violence by the ethnic Irish, Jewish and Italian gangs of that era. Why do we not learn from our history?

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-01-10T12:46:48-06:00

ID

67344

Comment

In addition to news reports and stories in the media I have gotten this account from a relative who lived in the Netherlands for many years.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-01-10T12:49:25-06:00

ID

67345

Comment

The government ought not to be spying on citizens from the air and trying to regulate private behavior that does not affect others. Heart disease is a leading cause of death and burgers are highly related. Should the government outlaw burgers and send out helicopters to detect fat burgers? It may be a leading killer and corrupter of the veins of young children. Should we let adults decide if they and their children want to engage in private unhealthy behavior? Maybe outlawing all bad things would be a good idea except that we could never build enough prisons to hold all the people who privately engage in unhealthy habits.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-01-10T12:57:40-06:00

ID

67346

Comment

WHIT, I'm with you on the decriminalization of some substances, but I can't compare addiction to heart disease. It's not victimless. I also wonder if the Netherlands has the abuse of controlled substances. Is there an oxycontnin problem there? Since this war on drugs started, our drugs of choice have changed. You'll see that the DEA spends a great deal of time combatting those these days.

Author

emilyb

Date

2007-01-10T13:09:20-06:00

ID

67347

Comment

There are pretty much the same drugs in Europe that we have here. The smokers of joints of marijuana probably only victimize themselves in the same manner as drinkers of alcohol and smokers of tobacco (as long as there is no second hand smoke damage --- from the weed or tobacco). Cocaine and heroin probably have secondary victims because the users will commit crimes to get the drug. Weed smokers are probably not robbing banks so they can get another joint. They probably are too lackadaisical to rob after smoking weed -- "Whatever dude..."

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-01-10T14:31:57-06:00

ID

67348

Comment

Oxycontin is legal, but one must have a prescription. I had a cousin who died of an overdose at the age of 32. She was into oxycontin. She was arrested at one point for forging a prescription. Making it illegal will never stop determined addicts. I do believe that "hard" drugs like oxycontin, heroin and cocaine should be strictly controlled. I don't know if jailing small time users will ever solve the drug problem though, especially when people can get high while incarcerated.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2007-01-10T14:44:12-06:00

ID

67349

Comment

as someone who hears the helicopter on a near nightly basis, I will loudly say it: THE EFFING HELICOPTER IS AUDIBLE... EVEN MY DEAF DOG BARKS WHEN IT FLIES OVER REPEATEDLY IN NORTH FONDREN. If the deaf dog can sense the vibrations, the noise it is producing is significant. He doesn't bark when a delivery semi drives down Meadowbrook.... He doesn't bark when a firetruck plows through... He barks when the helicopter flies over repeatedly. Having to turn up the volume on my television at 9pm to understand what's being said (without closed captioning) is yet another example. Knol Knol, I saw this guys rant on YouTube and remembered your post about MetroOne! ;-) It is loud!

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-02-03T22:34:40-06:00