Jackson Free Press

As I was telling the love of my life, Knol, the CL Letters to the Editor are the first thing I do every morning when I wake up. To quote someone, they're "the bestest thing ever". They also usually do one of two things to my mood. They make me laugh like no one is watching, or I get all fired up and want to pull someone's brain thru their nose. Neither is a bad mood to have going on in the morning.

But, I sometimes wonder if people over there are reading the letters before they post them. Some make no sense, and some are just horrible...and, well, stupid.

Here's one from this morning talking about the death of all Democrats.

Isn't everybody sick and tired of all the gamesmanship and "gotcha" politics? All this fussin' and fightin' is getting us nowhere.

I have a plan that will rid this country of mean, nasty partisanship, political bickering, name-calling and stalemated progress:

Everybody should just back off and let men marry men, women marry women and totally legalize abortion everywhere at any age at any time. In only three generations there will be no more liberals or Democrats.

How's that for a plan?

Well, I would say that since I'm not going to marry a woman, or have an abortion, we might at least have ONE little nasty snot nosed liberal democrat child running around here. But, knowing my luck, my child would turn out like Alex P Keating and would be Mr. Lawson's best friend.

I'm simply amazed that he hasn't quite figured out that there are democrats who have families. We didn't burst forth completely formed listening to bad techno and armed with coathangers.

Here's another letter talking about welfare queens and using a liberal smattering of exclamation points. I'm guessing because Ms. Walker was upset, and wanted us to get the point!!

Our society has become one of irresponsibility! Because someone chooses to claim himself or herself as a victim and chooses not to work does not make it my responsibility to work 40-plus hours per week to pay for the laziness!

Is it my job to pay for their way in life? I think not!

I am sick and tired of going places and seeing people use my money in the form of food stamps but then drive off in a car that costs more than I make in a year!

There are major flaws in our welfare and Medicare system — flaws that many who can get a job and work are abusing!

I say: Wake up, America! Times have changed!

People cannot play victim anymore! Everyone has a chance to succeed in life, but it is an individual's choice!

I would agree with that last statement if it wasn't so annoyingly perky and mixed with such hate and misunderstanding. I like it when people who are NOT a victim tell other people to just get over it and move on. I bet they would like to, Ms. Walker. In a perfect world, the one you seem to live in in CANTON, they would have their own money for food and wouldn't be handing out food stamps. Because, you know, having to use food stamps is so ultra sheik and self-esteem building.

Mr. Touchstone from Laurel give us another slant on the "media" and how he never buys a paper, anymore.

It has gotten to the point that I never buy a paper anymore. If there was an ounce of objectivity it would be OK, but the ravings of former Sen. Tom Daschle, D-S.D., who no one listens to except a liberal paper, are asinine ("Resolution OKs spying, Bush asserts," Dec. 20)!

Sooner or later the media will see, as most of us have, they have no credibility. So the best they can do is keep the population of ignorant, such as myself, confused.

Have you seen the ad that says "The most trusted name in news?" Gloom and doom is all that is portrayed. The media should report, not make the news.

It's hilarious to see these newsmakers portrayed as something other than someone who can read well. Doofus Redneck can read the news.

This brings to remembrance the people who tried to pollute our minds about Vietnam. Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters corrupted more people than Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin. Their anti-American rhetoric was incessant, and they were eulogized by the left.

Don't you think this guy probably has an underground bunker at home?

And, I'll close with Knol's favorite from yesterday.....I thought it was a joke. I find I give people far too much credit. Especially when they speak In Plain English.

In a restaurant the other day, I was reminded of a letter written by Yvonne Boleware ("Immigrants ought to speak English," Dec. 27). A group of people came in and only spoke in their native tongue. It sounded like Pygmalion.

When they ordered their meal, they had to point to pictures of the food. After they ordered, they sat around telling jokes and laughing in that crazy, brazen way that only Pygmalies seem to do.

I found this whole display to be unmannerly and obnoxious. They might have been laughing at me! But how would I know?
I think people should only speak English in our country. No foreign words. Not any. Not a single one. No cute little phrases in French or some ancient Latin verb spoken by some fancy-pants lawyer either.

I believe in free speech just as much as the next guy, but that speech should be in plain old English so that we can all get the joke.
Vincent Mullin
Ridgeland

Mr. Mullin, I'm sorry you had to endure this horrible experience. Let me let you in on a little secret, for I speak Assholemalion. Yes, they were laughing at you.

I'm happy to know if these people ever run into me they won't murder me for my political beliefs simply because I pay for my own food and speak In Plain English. They hopefully would see my little blonde head, empty and unmarried womb, and assume that I was a good little Republican.

Previous Commentsshow

You speak Assholemalion too? I knew we were kindred spirits... And, men who marry men have babies all the time! Women who marry women have them too... So, I don't see the liberals killing themselves off. Hell, we're the ones that ENJOY sex! Ba buh ba bah bahhhh --- I'm lovin' it! ;-)

kaust

Jan 6 2006

You ignored the fact that ms. walker was criticizing those how use food stamps and drive off in luxury vehicles. When I worked in a grocery store I saw it everyday. I will never forget the MTV News episode that followed Wu Tang Klan rapper Ol Dirty Bastard around for a day, including his trip to pick up his food stamps vouchers, IN HIS LIMO! For the record, when my wife and I first got married and had our son (only 18), we were on food stamps, so I'm not criticizing those who are on them. Been there.

brandon

Jan 6 2006

Actually, brandon, Ms. Walker was nastily perpetuating a sterotype with little regard to circumstances. She's trying to make it sound that like all these "welfare mothers" (quick, picture them: black or white???) are beating the system and driving around in their welfare caddies. This is an old strategy in our state, straight out of the days of the Klan and the Citizens Council. Are there individual people who abuse the system -- whether a black mother on welfare or Bernie Ebbers? Sure. However, this woman's argument makes her sound, at least, like an ignorant bigot. If you say it the way she did, you will sound the same way. I'm sorry if that particular truth hurts your feelings.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

Ladd-I agree. Its more about the perpetuation of a stereotype than anything else. She sounds like she's saying this because she "heard" it. And, Brandon, most of the time the Gods Of Satire require that you "forget" their literally point and get to something underneath it. That, and hell, its 8am on a Friday and I'm trying to make Knol fall in love with me. Cut me some slack, man. ;) I use the CL letters to more "take the temperature" of people running around loose out there with whom I usually have very little contact.

Lori G

Jan 6 2006

But, I would like to bring up one more point. Anyone who regularly reads the CL letters to the editor knows they are, more often than not, filled with hate and anger. There are some great letters. I've linked to others before. But, I'm am consistantly amazed by what is put on a page over there. Its interesting to see how the other half hates, ain't it?

Lori G

Jan 6 2006

The other thing that gets me, Ali, is that they don't seem to factcheck letters. Publishers are responsible for all "facts" that appear in our pages–and that includes in opinion pieces and in letters. I don't just mean legally responsible (although we're that, too), but ethically responsible. But it seems like the Ledge will throw any old thing at the letters page that they think will excite people. Of course, as Agnew explained last week (see Todd's publisher's note), they just love all the controversy. I would think David Hampton would know better, but he continually disappoints me as well. We joke around about how the Ledge (1) mis- or under-reports a story, (2) Sid or Ronnie or maybe Eric rails about it and then (3) David comes along and writes a why-can't-we-all-get-along column that is squishy that it's meaningless. Sorry, David, but it's true. Y'all can do better ... and need to get started.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

I personally wish people who spend so much time critisizing the welfare queens would come and live my life for a day just for fun. I'm sure they'd run out of time to be so friggin' vocal on who's driving what and what they are buying with what. Again, yes, there are people who exploit the system. In all classes. In all circumstances. Let's spend some time railing the shoplifting soccer mom on oprah for a bit and lay off the poor. Because I saw it on t.v. But that's just me. Ali, I'm so glad you used the "plain English" letter. I laughed and laughed thinking about the origins of the English language and then the "use plain English" order. HA! However, the boyfriend made a very good point last night that I hadn't thought about. Latin is a means of classism? I thought, no way. But then, I thought about schools that don't offer Latin and thoght about what I would do if I had NOT taken Latin and then tried to read a legal document. Hadn't thought about it before.

emilyb

Jan 6 2006

Remember that the "welfare queen" myth was made by Lee Atwater for Ronald Reagan when they ratcheted by the southern strategy. This was purposeful racism, and it's helpful to understand that.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

Off Topic Emily, glad to see you are still around. Jade and I have been looking for another article. Didn't get one for xmas, or new year's. patiently waiting, brandon and jade ps-we were in tupelo for thanksgiving and found out that your brother coaches jade's cousin's church basketball team. Jade showed me your family's picture in the directory.

brandon

Jan 6 2006

The stigma of government assistance can be overwhelming, especially when there are rogues cheating the system. People tend to judge an entire group of people by what a subset of them do, and it is not fair. I'm unable to work right now, and I always get a knot in my stomach when someone asks, "So, what do you do?" Should I display a big Cheshire Cat grin and say, "I'm disabled and live with my mom, and I am so proud"? Ain't happenin', cap'n. My voice immediately lowers to about 10 decibels and the word "proud" is never uttered. When I had Medicaid, I never had it on display. I always tried to discreetly hand it to the intake person behind the glass so that no one would take the time to really stare at it, but folks know what those forest green cards are. Otherwise, I can hide my situation pretty well. I use my own money or my bank card to buy food, so nobody knows my situation at the checkout counter. The food stamps were changed from those paper coupon-looking things to EBT cards, but the cards are sunshine yellow. Why? I think if they made them black or platinum colored, maybe that would provide a little more dignity. Plus, the letters EBT should not be so large. Maybe a hologram?

LatashaWillis

Jan 6 2006

Thank you, L.W. for speaking to something I see everyday and no one seems to get. People aren't PROUD of their need for help at times. It can be a very shaming experience. Not simply because asking for help is bad, but because of the way people treat you when they deem you "unworthy". I have seen too many cutting looks and snide comments when *I* a "white woman" have taken african american children to the doctor for my job and handed over a Medicaid card. Its horrible. Especially when you are disabled....and what little dignity people oftentimes have left is robbed by those who assume that you actually WISH to be diabled and unable to work.

Lori G

Jan 6 2006

I grew up listening to white people disparage blacks and their "welfare Cadillacs" and their lazy ways. Had I never expanded my frame of reference beyond the bigotry and racism around me, I might not have known better. But, is there really an excuse in 2006 to still make these kinds of generalizations? Are people really still this ignorant and prejudiced? I'm sure the very same ones would declare that "all that" is in the past, you know. At these moments, I like to remind readers that, in the mid-60s, the "good citizens" of Greenwood, Miss., opted to stop the commodities of black people who tried to register to vote. Yes, those good upstanding white citizens tried to starve all those "welfare queens" to death. I had a great conversation with a man last night about all sorts of topics. He's more conservative than I, which made it all the more interesting. At one point, he pulled out the "why do all the people in the poor neighorhoods in New Orleans expect the government to help them" cliche. I told him that I do not believe in massive government hand-outs that do not teach and inspire accountability, etc., and so on, but I do believe that government must fix the problems it caused. He looked at me blankly, truly I think having no idea what I meant. Now, I'm not disparaging her personally. I truly believe that people don't know what they do not know, and were not taught (and some of the most imcomplete educations, in this respect, are happening at many of our "seg" academies; he's not from here, so that's not a slap at him) many of the basic issues they need to know in order to under why they sound so ignortant when they make statements such as Ms. Walker's in that letter. He and I went on to have a great conversation, much of which revolved around the things that we white people grow up believing in Mississippi because we're taught that way. It was invigorating. But, still. If you do not understand the problems that our governments, especially in the Deep South but not only, created for entire communities of people, please do not make ignorant statements about whole groups of people just wanting hand-outs. It makes you sound ignorant and uneducated. And, well, rather mean.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

I tell you, I had NO desire to be disabled. I was brought up with a strong work ethic. My parents are the type of people that will work themselves into the ground and live off crickets and boiled grass before depending on someone else. I was employed for many years and worked my tail off, but my health kept getting in my way. The leaves of absence, the doctor's appointments...who was I kidding? I even got turned down for disability once before, tried working again, and ended up in the ER. I'll stop there because I'm telling too much (I hope to write a book about all this). However, not everyone decides to get government help because they want free money. Some people have no other choice.

LatashaWillis

Jan 6 2006

Donna, it is said that ignorance is bliss. Access to information today can be acheived at the press of a key, and although some do not know where to look and would like to know, others refuse to know in order to maintain their elite status among their peers and in their brains. I'm glad that you got the opportunity to reach out to one person's way of thinking last night, and I hope and pray that the person will seek the truth after talking to you. On the other hand, if he is ever enlightened, will he share what he knows with others that are still in the dark, or will he be afraid of what they may say? Peer pressure isn't just for teenagers.

LatashaWillis

Jan 6 2006

L.W., I spend a lot of my time having these kinds of conversations. The good thing is that I have *many* of these conversations. Truth is that the loud goofballs are the minority. If everyone else can find their voices, people would be very surprised. I'm in the fortunate position that a lot of different people with different views talk to me about these things. I simply cannot tell you how many tearful confessions I get from white people, for instance, come of whom I don't know very well, about racist people around them, or their family's history and so on. It is so tragic what people have bottled up inside. If we can pry open these floodgates, we will live in a *very* different state. And referring to a different thread on Tom's blog, this is why "they" hate me/us. But what "they" think so do not matter one single, itsy-bitsy, single microsopic iota. Ignorance is not bliss. It is ignorance. And it is tragic.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

That thread on Tom's blog, btw. Thought I linked it.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

Oh, and those confessions also come from family members of the goofiest balls in town, I'm happy to report.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

Wanna talk about family confessions? I found out at Christmas that my father, who has never traveled or lived outside the MS Delta, is quite a fundamental segregationist. Now,I've never talked politics with him before this date. Mainly because I always felt I didn't know enough beforehand to "pad my hand". This year I took him on and made his head explode. But, I want to write a column about the experience because, as a child, to hear my father say that, and to know because of those statements that we would never really "connect" in some respects...well, it was pretty traumatic. I'm hoping to be able to write about it in a way that shows the emotions on the other side of it. Not just the fact that we disagree politically and he happens to be my father.

Lori G

Jan 6 2006

L.W., for some reason I just caught your last post. Yes, I think you SHOULD write a book about it. I think any person who puts out an honest, human perspective on a situation that most often is looked down upon by others is brave. People need to be reminded that we are all human, all the time. I have to remind myself that I am human EVERYDAY. ;) I have a harder time reminding myself the people that write letters to the Ledge are human. (How'd you like that neat little wrap up? ...;P)

Lori G

Jan 6 2006

I'd like less attention paid to Individual Welfare Queens, and more paid to Corporate Welfare Queens. I mean, what's the relative cost to the taxpayer (not to mention the lost retirement funds, etc) of one Bernie Ebbers vs. your average welfare system user or even your average welfare abuser.

kate

Jan 6 2006

Ok I have to add this: The Poverty Diet http://www.vaumc.org/repository/ChurchSociety/PovertyDiet.pdf#search='the%20poverty%20diet' This is for VA (I would assume MS is worse) but it is the "same experience" as living on food stamps. Let's say you get $150 in food stamps a month (that's a lot for MS) and there are 90 meals (3x30) in that month. That's $1.67 per meal to eat. Can you eat off of $1.67? That won't even buy my gas to Rainbow :) Glad ladd pointed out that Reagan (and his staff) came up with the Welfare "Queen" thing...it's all a brainwashing tactic...seriously...yes there are people that abuse the system, but many who need help can't get the help they need. or if they do get help then it's not sufficient. but more thatn anything this kind of rhetoric is strictly to institutionalize racism and make it "ok." And for stupid people who always say things like, "why do I have to pay for _______'s food stamps?" like you are going to see any difference in your taxes if _______ is off food stamps." You are your brother's keeper. So get off your high horse and go serve a meal at Stewpot.

MANGUM

Jan 6 2006

I need to talk to Yamily Bass-Choate. Wonderful priest--now living in New York--and one of her last sermons included the line: We are all on welfare. And it's true. The country club wankers in northeast Jackson who get so obsessively, frighteningly angry at low-income blacks and anyone who supports low-income blacks are disproportionately likely to be on the world's oldest form of welfare: Family inheritance. If you're old-money, you have done no more to earn your money than a welfare recipient. Much less, dollar for dollar. If you've scored a really good job, you did it on the backs of other people, too--people who will never be compensated. So you're taking their money and making it your welfare. And so on. The fact that the money comes from the government is nothing special. We all get things we haven't earned, that were given to us by others. Starting with the nine months we spend in another human being's womb. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 6 2006

I should add... People who have contempt for the poor should never claim any association with the Christian faith. Not only were the poor praised, and the rich condemned (both literally and figuratively), by Jesus' ministry, but the whole idea of worship is based on gratitude for a gift we have not earned, and the whole idea of a loving God is based on grace freely given. Jesus did not say that welfare queens go to hell. He did not say that gays and lesbians, drug users, undocumented immigrants, peaceniks, or even Middle Eastern terrorists go to hell. But he did say that it's harder for a rich man to make it into heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle. If these people were sincerely religious, they'd be quaking in their boots. But they're not, so they aren't. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 6 2006

Yes, I think you SHOULD write a book about it. I think any person who puts out an honest, human perspective on a situation that most often is looked down upon by others is brave. Thanks, Ali, and I should add that another issue to add to the mix in that book would probably give some people conniptions, but discussing it here would give too much away. I'll just let you wonder... Tom, Kate and Mangum, you guys hit the nail on the head with your posts today! Folks who don't know what it's like to live off ketchup soup or use a utility bucket for a toilet should: 1) Be thankful that they never had to 2) Help whomever they can 3) Make friends in low places because any of them could end up the same way

LatashaWillis

Jan 6 2006

LOVE the "country club wankers" phrase. That's funny. And of course, the "eye of the needle" comment needs to be said. Often. Cheers, Tom.

DonnaLadd

Jan 6 2006

Amen. The only thing standing between the richest person in the world and the poorest person in the world is a row of numbers on a piece of paper. Your comment about ketchup soup and chamberpots reminds me of Bob Dylan. And how true it is. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 6 2006

Thanks, Donna--and cheers to you, too, grrl. Without the JFP and the hard work you put into making it what it is, I don't know where I'd be posting this sort of thing (if anywhere)--but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be local! Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 6 2006

Tom, those are some awesome lyrics. Speaks volumes.

LatashaWillis

Jan 6 2006

To Mr/Ms. Death of Democrats, How's that for a plan? Sounds like political genocide to me - scarily close to what, say, Lenin and Stalin did to their political opponents (capitalists and Christians) in the 1920s and 30s. I guess it is true that you do become what you hate if you let your emotions get out of control. To Ms. Walker, How about the "irresponsibility" of young upper-middle-class white suburban frat kids who get drunk at a bar, start crap with the college football team, and (in turn) have a lot of those "home town heros" storm the fraternity house with baseball bats and golf clubs (actual event that happened at La Tech Univ in Ruston during the early 1990's). Re: In Plain English, Well, Vincent, I expect you to visit ONLY English-speaking countries from now on! Oh, don't forget to scratch Montreal (and any other place in Quebec) off your list of "to see" places - lots of Francophones up there, you know. BTW, my great grandfather, immigrant from Ireland, could barely speak a word of English. SOMEHOW, I doubt he'd be too pleased with THAT comment.

Philip

Jan 6 2006

Philip, The "death of Democrats" thing seems to be catching a head of steam. A recent right-wing blowhard called for the execution of those involved in breaking the NSA spygate story--and on another local blog, someone cheerfully remarked that white liberals who are progressive on race issues should be isolated and eliminated from the gene pool by unspecified means. I would say it's scary times, but truth is that I personally remember people saying this kind of crap since the militia movement between Clinton's election and the Republican takeover in '94, and I wasn't even old enough to vote back then. Vague, universal death threats have been part and parcel of being a liberal since...well, since at least the antebellum south, when it's the Republicans that were the liberals. That's a mighty long time. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 7 2006

(Re the Esmay article: Hat tip to Lindsay Beyerstein, one of my absolute favorite bloggers on Earth. Every progressive should keep an eye on her blog, because she catches a lot of things that other people miss.)

Tom Head

Jan 7 2006

(Bah. Wrong link. You can find Beyerstein's blog here. A fresh crop of great entries just popped up within the past 24 hours or so, so it's a good time to check it out.)

Tom Head

Jan 7 2006

A recent right-wing blowhard called for the execution of those involved in breaking the NSA spygate story--and on another local blog, someone cheerfully remarked that white liberals who are progressive on race issues should be isolated and eliminated from the gene pool by unspecified means. So now we have calls for genocide of whites who betray the Order, eh? Well. These sound like the patriotic Germans who defended Hitler until ... well, until the second they couldn't any longer. Lord. Well, it's good to know who the great Americans are ... and aren't.

DonnaLadd

Jan 7 2006

For a bit of new-year balance, though, I must say that I had a wonderful conversation last night at ArtMix and another today over lunch with conservatives who were just delightful to discuss and argue with. Disagreement yes; ugliness no. Both conversations were simply invigorating to me. When you think about it, the world isn't divided into "liberal" and "conservative"; it's divided into people who love other people, and those who hate themselves, and must take it out on everybody else. I'm really sorry for those people. They are missing out on so much in their rush to squelch anything their terrified little minds didn't come up with.

DonnaLadd

Jan 7 2006

Donna, the word "genocide" was actually brought up, and my recollection is that the person in question did not deny that it was an accurate description of what he had in mind. This would be the same person who starts talking about his gun collection when he's on the losing end of an argument. I made a pledge to myself yesterday: No more posting there, period, under any circumstances. I have asked a few friends to help me monitor the site for libel, invasion of privacy, death threats, and other actionable behavior. If they do anything serious enough that it demands a response of some kind from me, which I doubt, they will either be hearing from my attorney or from the proper law enforcement authorities--but they will not be hearing directly from me. It's sad. These are people who, in many cases, I used to go to church with. But their behavior, and especially their aggressive rhetoric, means that I need to stay the hell away from them. I suppose that qualifies as a bonus New Year's resolution, too. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 7 2006

Don't worry, Tom. We have someone who knows what they're doing keeping those records, so you'll know if there's something you need to deal with. Otherwise, give that crap up for Lent. I don't look at those car wrecks; what is it Atlanta says: Too busy for hate? They're small, unhappy people trying to bring you down to their level. Just say no.

DonnaLadd

Jan 7 2006

Donna, agreed 200%. I got the kindest note from Matt Friedeman a couple of months ago. I think the biggest danger that the really nasty conservatives pose is that they alienate us from the really decent conservatives who make up the majority of the right wing. Half my family is Southern Baptist, and we can talk politics just fine. The problem is not the politics, or even the religion. It's the hate. Now, there's plenty of it on the left, too--I'm sure that if we were in Boston, we'd have a left-wing N-BAM of some kind to contend with--but this is Mississippi, so most of our friendly neighborhood creeps happen to be conservative. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 7 2006

Donna, thanks for this. And I'm thinking I'll give it up for more than Lent--how appropriate that, on the church calendar, the New Year is marked by the end of the 12-day season of Christmas and the beginning of a little season called...Epiphany. I'm tired of the hate ratrace. Really. I'm tired of getting angry at them for their hate, and having to fight the process by which that anger congeals into hate for me. I like Gandhi's words: That in the Satyagrahi philosophy, there is no room for enemies. But that doesn't mean that I can't choose to avoid people who bring out the worst in me. People who go into alcohol and drug treatment have to lose the old social networks that supported their bad habits; it's high time I lost the social network that's supporting mine. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 7 2006

I agree with you, Tom. Matt and I probably don't agree on a whole lot -- although he swears it's more than I think -- but he writes me the most delightful letter every few months and for publication to express his devotion to the JFP. (I think we really agree on our desire for the city to do well and the awfulness of the Ledge, but just guessing.) As for your "hate retrace" comments. That's why you don't look at car wrecks, Tom. Let the legal poobahs watch them for anything really dangerous or defamatory in some way, and let it go. I will never, ever forget having to yell at one of the bozos about why he ethically should not leave up a joke one of his yucks made about people doing something awful to JFP folks -- he was too dense to understand that I wasn't trying to sue him, but was trying to appeal to the, er, goodness inside him and to protect my staff. That one actually has become the one I respect the least of the four -- because he's the one who pretends the most. I don't even ackowledge these people in public anymore. I've run across few people I respect less, especially since some of the incidents we know that they've pulled against very innocent people, but now we're getting into inside baseball. And I'm just not going to hurt innocent people in order to expose what these poor excuses for human beings really are capable of. Again, though, their numbers are so few, and shrinking a little bird tells me, that it's all inconsequential. But I'm very glad to hear that you're going to stay away from the car wreck. You are an amazing person and have much good to do in the world if you don't allow yourself to be distracted by hatefulness. Thanks for being part of the JFP family. Right on your last statement, by the way. I've learned that you do not have to consider someone enemies or "hate" them back in order to decide that you just do not want them in your face. That's why I don't acknowledge these guys any longer; I can't stand to look at their fake smiles knowing that they are scheming to hurt me and my loved ones in such vicious ways. I have no shred of respect left for such people. I don't hate them; I feel sorry for them, and I do not have to deal with them, or their families who enable them, in any form. That is a healthy choice, I believe.

DonnaLadd

Jan 7 2006

Amen, Donna. Just a wise idea at this point to back away, I reckon. Let 'em eat sushi. It says a lot of good things about your character that you're not willing to play inside baseball! I think I've heard some of the same stories you have, and sometimes it's hard to keep my mouth shut, but I don't want to play dirty. Heck, I don't even want to see these guys unhappy or embarrassed. I just want them to stop hurting and embarrassing people I care about. Isn't it sad that when you try to appeal to their ethics, they immediately cite case law on actionability? I've done that, too, and had the same response. It never fails to shock me, coming from people who are as concerned as they claim to be about other people's ethics. Thanks for the kind words. You're a pretty amazing person yourself. :) And the JFP community is very good for me. I mentioned just now to a new member what it was like on the old BBS's. This is what it was like on the old BBS's, except that I never found a local BBS that had this many people, or this many people I had as much in common with. It's really a beautiful thing. In some ways it's a way that the Internet has gone full circle and recaptured some of what was lost when it got big. I like this. And I suspect it's only going to get better... Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 7 2006

I'm sure that if we were in Boston, we'd have a left-wing N-BAM of some kind to contend with--but this is Mississippi, so most of our friendly neighborhood creeps happen to be conservative. Funny you said this, which I just noticed. Some of the ugliest political arguments I've had have been in Boston and on Nantucket with Kennedy fanatics. I truly disdain Kennedys, and this didn't go over so well with the N-BAM Club. ;-) However, I never had any of them stoop quite as far as we see here; then again, they didn't have anonymous trolls to do their dirty work. But Mass folks do defend their Kennedys about as ardenly as neo-cons defend their Bush.

DonnaLadd

Jan 11 2006

You know, I once knew a man from Nantucket. He kept all his clothes in a...oh, forget it. But you know, there is a very serious annual "Nantucket Poetry Contest" headed up by a regional poetry society, and I kept wanted to write them and ask if they accepted limericks. Ahem. Moving on... Agreed on the older generation of Kennedys. Never ran into anyone who knows them in person and still trusts them. And, hoo boy, you want to talk about a president who lied his ass off and got us into a quagmire of a war: JFK. He was a beautiful symbol of our country, and he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis well, and it was tragic that he was struck down so young, but he was also a very, very flawed human being. Let's not even talk about the deal he made with the devil to carry Illinois. Or how he treated the women in his life. On the plus side, he spared us Richard Nixon for the next 8 years, so at least there's that. And he was progressive on race, which is where it really mattered at that time in history. So God bless him, mess of a human being that he was. We're all messes on some level or another, I guess. As far as the living Kennedy goes... I have a serious problem with Ted Kennedy's rhetoric: It just doesn't make much sense. It's unfair. He distorts the truth a lot of the time, in the same way that some of the people on the far right distort the truth, and I don't like it. It's sort of like that bit during the Bush-Kerry campaign, where I was urged to sign a petition protesting Bush's use of a Hitler photograph in an ad attacking Kerry. It was sent out by either the DNC or the Kerry campaign; can't remember which. Anyway, I did something the email didn't tell me to do: I looked at the ad. And I wasn't offended. It was actually an ingenious, and very fair, spot: All Bush's people did was compile various clips from left-wing attack ads (to highlight some of the really mind-burningly hysterical anger that had been focused on Bush), and it was an excerpt from a spot comparing Bush to Hitler that was the source of the infamous "Hitler photograph." Extremely dishonest. But it was the sort of thing Ted Kennedy would have done, you know? There's also a serious misogyny problem in the Kennedy clan. The men are all Gloria Steinem to the public, but they're Captain Caveman in the way they conduct their private lives. I want to say: If you're not a feminist in the bedroom, then you are not a feminist. Period. I've had it up to here with "progressive" men who preach gender equality, and talk about how much they value women, and then have a girl in every port--each unaware of the existence of the others. But that's the Kennedy way. And you probably know a heck of a lot more about Ted n' company than I do, given that you actually lived in that part of the country. I'm going based on the public record, plus the occasional bit of scuttlebutt. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 11 2006

There's also a serious misogyny problem in the Kennedy clan. The men are all Gloria Steinem to the public, but they're Captain Caveman in the way they conduct their private lives. I want to say: If you're not a feminist in the bedroom, then you are not a feminist. Period. I've had it up to here with "progressive" men who preach gender equality, and talk about how much they value women, and then have a girl in every port--each unaware of the existence of the others. But that's the Kennedy way. It's also the Clinton way, I remind you. I've said it many times: I am so fed up with the neo-royalty that is in power in this country, regardless of party–Clintons, Bushes, Kennedys (although they're falling, but even the Ahnold qualifies in a sense. Think he'd be there without Maria? Probably not. Ironically.) Putting men with these attitudes about women (and, frankly, themselves because only someone with such low self-esteem and no moral center would sneak around like they do, leading secret lives, hurting the ones they love the most, jeopardizing their careers, then pretending to be "moral") into office makes no sense to me. Putting a man who does this and says he favors women's equality and, er, respects strong women into office makes even less. Men like this should at least be honest about who they are and go be neo-cons or something and hang out among their own. Re Massachusetts Kennedys: Yes, in many ways, it was the closest I've come to the "privileged" mentality that we see in some of Jackson's least impressive residents -- the attitude that they don't have to follow every rule they advocate for someone else because, well, they're privileged and they do something good every now and then. That's actually called hypocrisy, and it stinks whether in Massachusetts liberals or Mississippi Republicans. That said, not all Mass liberals are that way, and not all Miss Repubs are that way. Just the ones that aren't particularly interesting.

DonnaLadd

Jan 11 2006

BTW, JFK wasn't stellar on civil rights–although he improved over his short presidency. Remember the fun factoid that he told all the participants in the March on Washington that they could have their march if they would be out of town by sundown. His administration almost didn't "let" them have it.

DonnaLadd

Jan 11 2006

Tom, the other thing I've noticed about the "privileged" mindset is that they don't seem able to have a conversation about right and wrong without bringing up attorneys. This is particularly bizarre because they are the very ones who complain about "litigious" societies, but they seem to think anything they do or say is right as long as it isn't "actionable." That word wasn't in my vocabulary until I started running across people like this. I guess it's a paranoid thing. I don't know. But I swear a lot of these guys would allow something really ugly to be said about their own children if they didn't think it was "actionable." It's a very strange animal, this "privileged" cat. I've never heard anybody talk about lawsuits–bringing 'em, defending 'em, hating them, threatening them–more than these folks. It's as if they think every action is judged solely by whether it is "actionable" or not. That is a really sad place to exist.

DonnaLadd

Jan 11 2006

I actually didn't know the tidbit about the March on Washington; I heard "they" wanted marchers out by sundown but didn't realize "they" was JFK himself. Re Clinton and Arnold "Eatin' Ain't Cheatin'" Schwarzenegger: Couldn't agree more. I'm getting a little tired of womanizing misogynists getting a free ride on women's issues just because they say they're pro-choice. Heck, it's kind of like how womanizing libertines get a free ride from the right if they say they're for "family values." As far as actionability goes: You know, my experience around people who have been sued often makes me lawsuit-conscious, but these guys raise it to an art form. I think they see lawsuits as kind of an Ultimate Male Combat thing, an arena where they can prove their virility and dominance over authority with the Powers That Be watching them, endorsing them. They don't see lawsuits as a remedy for the suffering. They see lawsuits as a weapon that the strong use to achieve, or further, their dominance. And it is sad, particularly when these staunch advocates of "traditional values" can only approach ethics from the angle of legal liability. They're like the old weasel characters from '80s frat comedies, a bully/jock archetype for folks who are smart enough to realize they can't beat the stew out of people they disagree with, but not quite smart enough to know that they shouldn't want to. Cheers, TH

Tom Head

Jan 11 2006