Jackson Free Press

Sometimes the hypocrisy in modern society troubles me. I've known for years that the playing field for African Americans has never been level. I've always known that those who disagree with that fact probably have a slightly skewed view of reality. But whatever those feelings are, I knew we could be assured that with death, there would come some semblance of peace. Whether you did good deeds or raised a little hell, you at least had the right to spend eternity where you saw fit. Ironically though, even in death, we've found a way to separate ourselves. The classism that exists even in the African-American community has found its way into the afterlife.

Recently, the rap world experienced another tragic loss when Proof (Desha Holton), an associate of rap heavyweight Eminem, was gunned down in an after-hours spot in Detroit. More recently, the family of civil-rights icon Rosa Parks, more specifically her nephew, William McCauley, voiced outrage at the fact that Proof would be laid to rest in the same chapel where Parks is buried. McCauley says that he "doesn't see the appropriateness of someone like this young rapper being buried with Rosa Parks," adding that it was obvious Proof followed a different creed in resolving issues.

Point taken, but regardless of the circumstances surrounding the rapper's death, his family and friends have every right to bury Proof wherever they wish. The sheer audacity of McCauley's statements floor me. I wouldn't dare discount the significance of Rosa Parks and that momentous day in 1955 when she pushed the South into the 20th century. She is one of the reasons that Proof or any other black entertainer, for that matter, can enjoy great monetary success. But correct me if I'm wrong: Didn't she sacrifice so that no other person of color would have to experience discrimination in life or death? Proof enjoyed a fruitful career. He released two platinum-selling albums as a member of the Detroit rap collective D-12. Couple that with those world tours with Eminem, and it's obvious his family could afford those fancy digs. But, of course, because he's a rapper, he deserves much less! Kind of like those looks I get when I'm eating in Schimmel's or Char with my doo-rag, saggy jeans and tall tees!

Though none of us condone how Proof died, we can all applaud how he lived. He had a passion to see other Detroit artists succeed as he had. He hosted rap showcases and mentored inner-city kids, always looking out for the next guy. His works should be commended and his memory preserved. When anyone, black or white, tries to measure the value of one life against another, they cheapen the accomplishments of both. It goes against everything Ms. Parks stood (or more specifically sat) for. I think Proof did nothing in life but try to live up to the standards she set, regardless of how he died.

Mr. McCauley, you should be ashamed. By bringing up this pointless controversy, you are doing more to tarnish your aunt's legacy than any entertainer could. And by the way, you're the next addition to my you-know-what list.

And that's the truth ... sho-nuff!

Previous Comments

ID

72196

Comment

Great article and topic Kamikazee, I knew that Proof had been killed but I was unaware of the controversy that Mr. McCauley has started. It's petty and ridiculous, I could somewhat understand if Proof was a convicted serial killer or rapist, but he was simply an artist doing what he enjoyed, point blank. I personally think that Mr. McCauley is not being very respectful of the deceased or his family who is most likely still in mourning. You wrote: Didn’t she sacrifice so that no other person of color would have to experience discrimination in life or death? Yes she did and he needs to realize that.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-10T15:09:32-06:00

ID

72197

Comment

I read about the controversy, too. I was surprised to not hear anything about who else was buried there beside Proof and Ms. Parks. I think part of the controversy involved the proximity of the graves to each other. Now, if you have proof that rappers and other wann-be rappers would be visiting Proof grave and thereby leaving beer cans or marijuana roaches in the area so as to ugly-up Ms. Park's grave, then, I can understand the argument. Otherwise, they should spare me. People are funny. Until recent years in the south whites and blacks were separated even in graveyards. Ms. Dupree commeted once upon learning that some whites were thinking of sending their ashes to the moon, at a very high cost, that "white folks will finally be free of black folks." Smile.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-10T17:13:37-06:00

ID

72198

Comment

Now, if you have proof that rappers and other wann-be rappers would be visiting Proof grave and thereby leaving beer cans or marijuana roaches in the area so as to ugly-up Ms. Park's grave, then, I can understand the argument. Otherwise, they should spare me. <-- Ray exactly

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-10T17:27:27-06:00

ID

72199

Comment

hahaha...oh boy. Leave it to the black folks to open mouth and insert foot, ankle and shin. We don't white folks to embarrass us anymore, we do that just good fine dandy.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-11T11:38:59-06:00

ID

72200

Comment

Ray states: "Now, if you have proof that rappers and other wann-be rappers would be visiting Proof grave and thereby leaving beer cans or marijuana roaches in the area so as to ugly-up Ms. Park's grave, then, I can understand the argument. Otherwise, they should spare me." Wait a minute now, I am offended by this statement. What is to say that rappers or wanna be rappers have to leave beer and weed at the site. I think that's contributing to the problem that Mr. McCauley has in the first place. The audicity it must take for one person to open their mouth with such ignorance. Why couldn't you say that if ANYONE, be it a rocker, any ordinary citizen, whatever that comes in there and leaves that type of stuff there, then you could understand. Oh, maybe you said that because that's what McCauley was referring too, huh? Okay maybe I jumped the gun on that. But I'm still going to post this, just in case that's not what you meant. Surely it was, Ray you seem to have a better grip on "us" the rap generation than that. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Kudos Kaze!

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-11T14:18:06-06:00

ID

72201

Comment

Well, Queen, I'm trying to understand what the controversy was about. I didn't hear any complaints about anyone else being buried in the cemetery other than Proof being buried near Ms. Parks. I assume they were alright with everybody else being buried there except Proof since no one else was complained about. I also assumed they must have some fears that Ms. Park's grave would be desecrated somehow by supporters of Proof since I don't see how a dead Proof can himself cause any harm or desecration. Unless they know something I don't. I didn't single out Proof or rappers, Ms. Park's relative did that. I only extrapolated and commented based on what was already there. Anyway, Queen, you know rappers like to drink gin and juice, and forty ounces; smoke marijuana and curse; and say Nigga about a hundred time before they get too wasted to pick up their roaches, beer, and alcohol cntainers. Just joking. Smile.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-11T14:35:55-06:00

ID

72202

Comment

Probably right, but so do alot of folk who are not rappers, don't listen to rap and are not of color (just in case that may have come up to). But, yes sir, I see your point. Well taken.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-11T14:40:18-06:00

ID

72203

Comment

There was a column in last week's CL about rap music. I haven't been able to recover it. However, the author intelligently pointed out that Hip-Hop is life-affirming music, and that rap is, essentially, the music of Thanatos--self-absorbed, misogynist, anti-social, defeatist, loveless, other-blaming. This should not preclude Proof's burial anywhere his family can afford. However, I understand Ms. Park's family's concerns. I wouldn't want Hitler buried next to my father, nor would I like Edgar Ray Killen buried next to the three civil rights workers murdered in Philadelphia, MS, or Byron De La Beckwith buried next to Medgar Evers. HDMatthias, MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-14T16:00:40-06:00

ID

72204

Comment

Doc, do you believe the crap above contrasting Hip-Hop to Rap? Apparently so since you repeated it and are silent about why you posted it. What was rock with all the abuse of drugs, alcohol and senseless sex with any and everybody? Were those white girls willing to have sex at the drop of a hat with STD infested strangers, loving, self-respecting, and social? What about the white boys, too. Never heard a conservative like you in many years say anything bad about Rock which comprised mostly white artists and fans abusing self, drugs, alcohol, and sex. Hip-Hop and Rap hasn't hurt society, in my opinion, any worse than Rock has. People like you accepted rock because the pushers or performers of it were whites, and behavior by whites can't possibly be wrong, or as bad as behavior done by, participated, or led by blacks, correct? While I'm at it, I read your article in the Northside Sun a couple of weeks ago wherein you contrasted various types of behavior by whites and blacks and the responsibility and cost of it. I hope you know that no intelligent black person considered that article to be fair and balanced. And I doubt any intelligent and fair white person could either. I didn't realize your tax money was doing so much for black folks. You must explain this to me someday. Also, I would love some enlightenment on how a person who allegedly marched with Dr. King or was a great supporter of his teachings could suddenly or gradually become a staunch Reagan or Bush supporter. Also, Doc, what is the difference between Hip-Hop and Rap?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T09:07:49-06:00

ID

72205

Comment

I wouldn't want Hitler buried next to my father, nor would I like Edgar Ray Killen buried next to the three civil rights workers murdered in Philadelphia, MS, or Byron De La Beckwith buried next to Medgar Evers. Dr. can you please explain how Proof, a hip hop ARTIST, can be compared to the likes of Hitler, Killen, or Beckwith? If I am correct I don't think he has ever murdered another person or even been convicted of murder. So how is this comparison relevant???? Please enlighten me.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T09:41:09-06:00

ID

72206

Comment

Well in all fairness jan and I unfortunately must be brutally honest.. He alledgedly DID actually shoot someone moments before he was killed. But those accusations notwithstanding it in NO WAY puts him close to being grouped with a Hitler or Edgar Ray killen. To answer you Ray cause im sure the good doctor may not be able to elaborate in detail...hip hop is the culture that emerged form the hoods of the south bronx in the late 70's. It was birthed by a jamaican DJ by the name of Kool Herc and encomapsses MC'in, DJ'in, Breakdancing, and graffitti. Some pundits have tried to create a separation because they felt like the music that originally came from the east coast was being "watered" down by the emergence of the west coast and the south and that ridiculous term "gangsta" music. It's all hip hop people. music created out of the angst of young black and hispanic people...and now even white folks!!! rap could be seen as the "commercial side" of it if you must tag it. the aspect that makes money, but it one and the same. The ability to put words spoken or rapped over a beat i.e. MCing is hiphop plain and simple whether you're talking about self empowerment or being broke or if you're rapping about having sold drugs or coming from a lifestyle of gangbanging.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2006-05-15T09:57:09-06:00

ID

72207

Comment

the author intelligently pointed out that Hip-Hop is life-affirming music, and that rap is, essentially, the music of Thanatos--self-absorbed, misogynist, anti-social, defeatist, loveless, other-blaming. FYI: Rap is an element of Hip Hop. If whatever columnist for the CL did their research on hip hop prior to writing their column they would have known and mentioned that, as the fact is relevant and somewhat contradicting.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T09:57:17-06:00

ID

72208

Comment

And Ray could you PLEEEEEEEAAAASSEEE print that article that ran in the SUN or give us a link. i would really like to read it. I think I may have just found the subject for my next column....And if its anything like you say Ray the good doctor could be next on that infamous you-know-what list!!!!!!!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2006-05-15T09:58:37-06:00

ID

72209

Comment

Well in all fairness jan and I unfortunately must be brutally honest.. He alledgedly DID actually shoot someone moments before he was killed. Appreciate the info, Kamikaze, I didn't know that either, I still stand by my point though. I can understand that Mr. McCauley may not want any person who may be associated with violence in any way, next to a woman who is the epitome of peace, but it is not his decision, and it is ultimately about respecting the deceased. For both families.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T10:05:32-06:00

ID

72210

Comment

Kamikaze, I accidentally threw the article away. It was in the Northside Sun a couple of weeks ago. Maybe the doctor will post it for all of us to read. I will admit she made some attempt to be fair and balanced in it. Please post the article, Doc, for us all to read and critique. I bet the readers of the Northside Sun loved it. Let see if we would love it too.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T10:13:32-06:00

ID

72211

Comment

Let's not tar and feather the Dr. just yet. He(she?) was just making a point using Hitler, etcc..not a direct comparision. And believe it or not the Rosa Parks camp got a bad hatred for hip hop anyway so I can see why they wouldn't want Proof buried next to her. If I'm not mistaken, they are still trying to sue the rap group Outkast for using her civil rights situation in their song. I doubt if her family will get anything because it's wasn't copyright infringement and her situation cannot be copyrighted so the lawsuit is stupid, in my opinion. Now this... Mr. McCauley has the right to be outraged. He and his family grew up in a time where divide and conquer was in full effect in the black community and He's just reacting the way he was taught to react. god bless him. . I would like to see all the powerful hip hoppers buy some land and create their own graveyard/shrine. It's not like they don't have the bodies to fill it up over time.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T10:21:26-06:00

ID

72212

Comment

"Hip-Hop is life-affirming music, and that rap is, essentially, the music of Thanatos--self-absorbed, misogynist, anti-social, defeatist, loveless, other-blaming." The problem with this statement is that there is no difference in the two. Hip Hop is the culture, Rapping is what the emcess of the culture do. You can't seperate the two. One cannot exist without the other. So it's safe to assume that the CL's "intelligence" is in question here.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T10:32:03-06:00

ID

72213

Comment

Now that Jan has me thinking; Doc, where is the extreme divide and/or hatred between Ms. Parks and Proof or rap, for that matter? I realize that many older black people don't like rap and consider it something awful. However, I doubt Proof hated Ms. Parks or vice versa, and I doubt Proof would have gunned down Ms. Parks due to hatred had he met her. One of the big problems with conservatives is extreme racial bias toward blacks. And it's so extreme that it's blinding. "No matter how you try to hide it, it states your case." And no matter how much education the conservative has, race trumps everything.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T10:33:54-06:00

ID

72214

Comment

Actually, the article which appeared in the NSS was not for publication. It was a letter posted somewhere on the JFP (perhaps to Kamikazee) when someone claimed I needed a course in PC. The article I wrote back to this site was copied to the NSS (not for publication). I stand by everything I wrote in it. HDMatthias, MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-15T10:34:32-06:00

ID

72215

Comment

a word on Proof... His situation was unfortunate but underscores Hip Hop's lack of maturity. This comes from what I like to call "Hiring kids to do a man's job". So many times have I and friends noticed how hip hop labels sign the youngest and most immature people they can find to represent hip hop and although it will never kill the culture, it's indeed killing the opportunities for young poor kids to get a chance to make a better living for themselves via the music arm of the Hip Hop culture.. DJ's will forever be in demand. But rappers are becoming a unwanted commodity in the grand scheme of commerce for the culture. by design? maybe. maybe not.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T10:38:51-06:00

ID

72216

Comment

If I'm not mistaken, the doctor who is a female, is also Jewish. So, I can see why she hates Hitler and Edgar Ray Killen on that basis alone. That may not be the only reason, however. It still was an overreaction not based even roughly in facts.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T10:40:44-06:00

ID

72217

Comment

" I stand by everything I wrote in it" Please post what you wrote. I'd like to read it.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T10:43:37-06:00

ID

72218

Comment

But Ray, don't miss the point she was making though, regardless of the lack of wit.. she still had a good point eventhough the CL was ignorant in their own assumptions of hip hop.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T10:46:43-06:00

ID

72219

Comment

JSU, what is McCauley's point if he's complaining about Proof and not about anyone else in the graveyard? Did he know the legacy, lifestyle and history of everyone else buried there? Was everybody else buried there in compliance with the type of person he wanted Ms. Parks buried around. There was no proven hatred between Ms. Parks, her family, Proof, and rap music. Certainly some distaste or bad feelings, but no hatred I know of. Isn't McCauley overreacting, too?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T10:50:30-06:00

ID

72220

Comment

Let's not be confused. The article a couple of weeks ago isn't about rap. I can't even remember the title of it, or even much of what it said except what I already stated.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T10:53:32-06:00

ID

72221

Comment

"rap could be seen as the "commercial side" of it if you must tag it." Then you too are adding to the confusion of what Hip Hop is. the key is not to let other people "tag" anything about the culture that isn't correct. This is how you make people understand it better. If you let people start to "tag" things, they'll start tagging it in other aspects and start calling the graffitti arm of hip hop, vandelism(which they already do now). understand? I honestly feel that hip hop has no sense of direction. It's just a bunch of young poor wayward black/latino/white kids standing in line to get a check from the labels that control their lives anyway.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T10:55:48-06:00

ID

72222

Comment

"JSU, what is McCauley's point if he's complaining about Proof and not about anyone else in the graveyard?" McCauley is detacted from his people. His hatred for Hip Hop drove him to speak from his a$$ and not from his heart. "Did he know the legacy, lifestyle and history of everyone else buried there? Was everybody else buried there in compliance with the type of person he wanted Ms. Parks buried around." doesn't matter. Hip Hop is his enemy. "There was no proven hatred between Ms. Parks, her family, Proof, and rap music. Certainly some distaste or bad feelings, but no hatred I know of." McCauley just showed you the hatred. can you see it? "Isn't McCauley overreacting, too" Over-ignorant is more like it.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T10:59:15-06:00

ID

72223

Comment

JSU did (does) Rock have a sense of direction. Did it need to have direction to be legitimate or money-making? Why does Hip-Hop or rap need a sense of direction any more than anything before it? Aren't both being done, by and large, just for money and entertainment?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T11:00:50-06:00

ID

72224

Comment

Ray wrote - "JSU did (does) Rock have a sense of direction. Did it need to have direction to be legitimate or money-making? Why does Hip-Hop or rap need a sense of direction any more than anything before it? Aren't both being done, by and large, just for money and entertainment?" Rock? pretty much has a better grasp of seperating life, art and entertainment and thus leading to more maturity overall.. You don't see Tommy Lee gunning for Ted Nugent and vice versa. most of the Rockers are interested in getting paid and getting laid, the rest of it be damned. they've shown over the years that they have no time for violence and ignorance amongst fellow artists. they are more apt to commit suicide on themselves before they do it to another artist or band. But Hip Hop has successfully infused the ignorance of violence into the music so it now becomes a matter of rappers having to carry weapons to protect themselves(hence, the Proof shooting). Regardless if you rap soft like the Roots or hard like the Game. Now, this infusion, is not the rappers fault alone. the labels have a lot to do with it too.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T11:14:47-06:00

ID

72225

Comment

....separating life, art and entertainment and thus leading to more maturity overall. This is news to me, but I don't claim to know much about this. Is this why there were so many cases of abuse of hard drugs, infihting to the point of so many break-ups, suicides, rags to riches then back to rags? Have you seen "Beyond the Music? There are some good sucees stories in rap, too. Consider Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, Ice T and many more.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T11:22:44-06:00

ID

72226

Comment

I do agree that carrying guns and looking for a fight is quite crazy and immature.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T11:24:33-06:00

ID

72227

Comment

Ray, before you get lost in the shuffle, you must remember that blacks NEVER had the comforts of anything in america compared white men and rock and roll, so therefore you should expect black artists to hold themselves to a higher standard if nothing more than to keep the FCC , DEA, FBI and other racist lobbyists off their backs. Notice the "Parental Guidance" labels on rap records and not on the most gory of rock bands albums? coincidence?, NOT. What is that, if not control of a people's right to free speech? the playing field is not level so blacks shouldn't use weak arguments to state their cases. It won't work. sadly, Proof f-cked up. He's connected to a millionaire first of all, he had no business in that hole in the wall full of haters. Not to mention he shot first.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T11:40:51-06:00

ID

72228

Comment

"you must remember that blacks NEVER had the comforts of anything in america compared white men and rock and roll," .."Notice the "Parental Guidance" labels on rap records and not on the most gory of rock bands albums? coincidence?, NOT" ...UNBELIEVABLE!!!!! I actually agree with JSU on some of those points. couldnt have said it better. and agree with HALF of at lest one more point.... "the playing field is not level" damn right...but our arguments are faaaar from weak brother. and yes...Proof had no business in that dive around a room full of haters. WOW....agreed with another point. AND GOOD DOCTOR could you post that "letter" or article if you have it please?

Author

trusip

Date

2006-05-15T11:54:22-06:00

ID

72229

Comment

that "commercial" tag was not my thing at all...I was stating what some have tried to tag it as. To me, it all falls under the culture that is hip-hop. And to elaborate further on an earlier point. Rock artists and their shows fall to the same trappings that hip-hop does but because its deemed a "white" entity you never hear of the near riots, rampant alcohol and drug abuse, defiance of authority and weapons that are brandished at these concerts. Just last night watched the VH1 special on the rock group Pantera where one of its members was shot and killed ON STAGE by a crazed fan who went on to kill 4 other people during his rampage. If you hadnt heard about it...well that just proves my point. To say that rock artists or "white" artists grasp that separation better is to say that white folks "get it" and black folks don't. Almost saying that we're intellectually inferior which would open up a whoooooole new can of worms but I KNOW you weren't saying that. I think there are jerks on both sides of that coin IMO

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2006-05-15T12:06:11-06:00

ID

72230

Comment

..."Rock artists and their shows fall to the same trappings that hip-hop does but because its deemed a "white" entity you never hear of the near riots, rampant alcohol and drug abuse, defiance of authority and weapons that are brandished at these concerts." They do, and you do hear about it as your next comment points out... ...." Just last night watched the VH1 special on the rock group Pantera where one of its members was shot and killed ON STAGE by a crazed fan who went on to kill 4 other people during his rampage. If you hadnt heard about it...well that just proves my point. " I read about it the day after it happend in a rock magazine. this was one incident that happend years ago, it's not a trend.. Hip Hoppers seem ready to go to war on a nightly basis. Just recently, another rapper got shot(T.I.) I think. or somebody in his camp. Proof got murdered only a couple weeks prior this recent shooting. trend? yes. ..."To say that rock artists or "white" artists grasp that separation better is to say that white folks "get it" and black folks don't. Almost saying that we're intellectually inferior which would open up a whoooooole new can of worms but I KNOW you weren't saying that. I think there are jerks on both sides of that coin IMO" Rock artists period. the color don't matter. Rock artists, IMO, seem to focus more on the music and the money, they don't appear to go out looking for trouble like rappers appear to do. so, to a degree I am saying Rocekrs seem to "get it" while Rappers(no matter what color) don't "get it". yes. need a can opener?

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T12:22:41-06:00

ID

72231

Comment

JSU, I have spent my 50 years with my eyes wide open. You might get lost but I won't. I'm usually very consistent in my arguments. I can't believe you question whether I understand the makeup and situation of America if you have read my posts on Race in America. By the way, Ted Nugent was in the news a few years ago talking about killing or suing his agent for ripping him off. Ted had made millions off sold out concerts throughout the country but wasn't checking on his wealth. His agent, accountant, manager or what it was apparently had a big gambling problem and was gambling with Ted's money.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T12:28:33-06:00

ID

72232

Comment

"...they don't appear to go out looking for trouble like rappers appear to do." Apparently YOU don't get it....That statement is BROAD and GENERAL at best. Racist at its least(whether you're black OR white) that shooting was in 2004..not that long ago and that was just one that HAPPENED to make news. you think rock shows have gotten off scott free since then c'mon. the coverage is different point blank!!!!! As a hiphop artist I refuse to grouped in a category that fits your stereotype that all rappers walk around looking for trouble 'cause its just not true. Rock artists have no better grasp than we do thats a misnomer.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2006-05-15T12:35:15-06:00

ID

72233

Comment

"By the way, Ted Nugent was in the news a few years ago talking about killing or suing his agent for ripping him off. Ted had made millions off sold out concerts throughout the country but wasn't checking on his wealth. His agent, accountant, manager or what it was apparently had a big gambling problem and was gambling with Ted's money." Did he do it though? That's all that matters. Most Rappers, on the other hand, feel the need to "act out" on their words because so much is riding on their "respect in the hood"..and that respcect is mis-applied in most cases by immature people in their camp edging them on.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T12:35:35-06:00

ID

72234

Comment

"Most Rappers, on the other hand, feel the need to "act out" on their words because so much is riding on their "respect in the hood"..and that respcect is mis-applied in most cases by immature people in their camp edging them on. " You've obviously been reading a lot of newspaper and magazine articles in mainstream publications and watching a lot of TV 'cause that seems to be where you developed your "idea" of rappers and what we do it this industry. A few incidents involving a few jackasses and you condemn an entire genre??? There a literally hundreds of thousands of artists. big medium and small that do hiphop in this country and abroad and to say the MAJORITY of them think like that is irresponsible instead of spotlighting the a--holes who have committed these violent acts.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2006-05-15T12:40:33-06:00

ID

72235

Comment

I agree with Kamikaze about the violence in hip-hop vs. rock. There is a lot of violence associated with rock, but it does not get the same press as violence in hip-hop. You would probably have to watch MTV for several hours at a time to get in-depth news about violence at a rock concert like the one Kamikaze mentioned, versus the almost instaneous reports of violence at a rap (i.e., "black") concert. The only striking difference between rap and rock for a casual observer would be the misogynistic machismo that defines 60% of rap music and is frequently acted out as rivalries between rappers or groups (East v. West Coast, Nas v. Jay-Z for example). Most of these rivalries don't result in actual violence between rappers per se, but the ones that have (the most infamous being Biggie and Tupac) are used to define the whole genre. I'm not suggesting that violent lyrics should be ignored. I think we as a race of people are getting far too comfortable in perpetuating stereotypes and uplifting immoral behavior in some of the music that our impressionable kids listen to. But that cuts both ways; sex, drugs and misogyny is just as prominent in hard rock (i.e., "white") music, but without the 'gangsta' mystique in rap that reports and reflects the violence and lack of oppurtunity in the inner-city.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-05-15T12:47:46-06:00

ID

72236

Comment

If you're saying rappers need mature and wise counsel, I agree. Everybody needs that not just rappers. If you're saying rappers need to be more responsible in how they interact with other artist. I agree with that too. Many rappers, unlike many rockers, likely grew up fending for themselves because they never had anybody else to do it for them. This attitude probably carries over into business on some occasions. Probably too many occasions. Clearly, it's better to sue than to shoot or kill somebody.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T12:56:57-06:00

ID

72237

Comment

another important aspect to think about in reference to the violence that happens within the rap/hip hop community is many times it is not the rappers themselves commiting violent acts (not to say that rappers don't) but it is often found that it is the entourages that often keep up so much ruckus. this needs to be taken in accountability because I think it is often overlooked. I honestly feel that hip hop has no sense of direction. <--JSU In my opinion, some hip hop artists have no direction and are just joining in for all the wrong reasons, but not all. Take a look at Russell Simmons and his empire what he stands for and what he is trying to accomplish within the hip hop community. It seems the younger generation of hip hopers may not have a sense of exactly who they are but not all. Rock artists and their shows fall to the same trappings that hip-hop does but because its deemed a "white" entity you never hear of the near riots, rampant alcohol and drug abuse, defiance of authority and weapons that are brandished at these concerts. <-- Kamikaze Good point. We hardy ever hear the behind the scene stories of rockers and if we do they are often brushed off as they are no big deal. Anything negative that happens within the hip hop community seems to be sensationalized and shown in the media reduntantly, hence painting a continous picture of the negative side of hip hop. so, to a degree I am saying Rocekrs seem to "get it" while Rappers(no matter what color) don't "get it". yes.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T13:04:14-06:00

ID

72238

Comment

And why is JSU singing the praises of one of the biggest racist to ever disgrace the world - Ted "the grand dragon" Nugent?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T13:04:29-06:00

ID

72239

Comment

...."the coverage is different point blank!!!!! " Not true. If you read rock magazines as much as you read rap magazines, you would see that the coverage of things that happen(negatively) get press often. mosh pit fights, littering at the shows,etc..rarely do you read about gunplay though...the Pantera incident was few and far between...and if you knew anything about Pantera you'd know why that fan snapped...Pantera is to Rock what Biggie was to rap, ICONS. not to make light of the shooting, it was still unneccessary. But Rap magazines talk about "beefs" all the damn time. promoting them even, more often then not. this guy named QDIII even put out a series of DVD's about "Beefs"...and for what? to possibly fuel the beefs further for monetary gain? that guy should've never put that out there given the climate of potential violence in Hip Hop. Again, just immature. from most of the artists to most of the the labels to the journalists to these DVD creators...immature. you disagree that Hip Hop is immature but you call for more "intelligent" rappers to get record deals in most of your articles? Now, YOU c'mon. ...."As a hiphop artist I refuse to grouped in a category that fits your stereotype that all rappers walk around looking for trouble 'cause its just not true." As you should, but you're in the minority, I'll bet. ..."Rock artists have no better grasp than we do thats a misnomer." Maybe not all the artists, but the labels, managers, promoters, etc... have a better grasp that's for sure. I went to a Cash Money Millionaires concert in New Orleans one time and guess how many gangbangers I saw brandishing pistols as they rode by the venue? EIGHT. and guess how much security I saw at that same show, 1 maybe 2 security guards at the door, and NONE on the inside, just bodyguards for the group. and yes, a BIG BIG fight broke and two people got shot, not sure if they died, I was doing 90mph towards the door and didn't look back. question is, how'd guns into the club? immaturity. Another show I went to in Atlanta I saw some up and coming rapper get knocked out cold on the dance floor right after he walked off stage. So don't act like ALL violence in Hip Hop is covered by the hip hop media to a tee because it's not either..

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T13:05:25-06:00

ID

72240

Comment

Ray wrote - "If you're saying rappers need mature and wise counsel, I agree. Everybody needs that not just rappers. If you're saying rappers need to be more responsible in how they interact with other artist. I agree with that too." That's exactly what I'm saying. Ray wrote- "Many rappers, unlike many rockers, likely grew up fending for themselves because they never had anybody else to do it for them. This attitude probably carries over into business on some occasions. Probably too many occasions." And this is the excuse they'll use in court when they are faced with 50+ years to life. "I grew up without my daddy , that's why". Sorry excuse.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T13:14:21-06:00

ID

72241

Comment

JSU's last comment states what I have been thinking all along, and that is that rockers are better protected or looked out for at concerts and elsewhere than rappers whether it be physically, financially, emotionally or other. This was initially true in nearly all arenas that black folks started to encroach.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T13:15:32-06:00

ID

72242

Comment

Rock artists period. the color don't matter. Rock artists, IMO, seem to focus more on the music and the money, they don't appear to go out looking for trouble like rappers appear to do. so, to a degree I am saying Rocekrs seem to "get it" while Rappers(no matter what color) don't "get it". yes <--JSU I don't think rappers go out and "look" for trouble nor do rockers, but it is plausible that when sex, drugs, and violence are involved trouble will probably find you. No matter what color you are. So I personally, don't think it's a matter of rockers 'getting it' and rappers not, it's all in the way individuals choose to live their lifestyle. Rockers get in trouble with the law as do rappers, some rockers abuse drugs and alcohol, as do rappers, some rockers engage in sex with multple partners as do rappers, some rockers encounter violence while drunk or on drugs as do some rappers. But one can't generalize it to all rappers or say that one doesn't get it over the other.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T13:15:37-06:00

ID

72243

Comment

..."A few incidents involving a few jackasses and you condemn an entire genre???" The problem is, the few jackasses just happend to be the highly paid ones. they should know better. they are the "face" of the genre. no excuse. so stop making them.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T13:17:04-06:00

ID

72244

Comment

...."We hardy ever hear the behind the scene stories of rockers and if we do they are often brushed off as they are no big deal." Bull. do you read rock magazines? that's where you'll find the information. MTV is all rap now, so of course the rappers will be splashed across the tube. ..."Anything negative that happens within the hip hop community seems to be sensationalized and shown in the media reduntantly, hence painting a continous picture of the negative side of hip hop." NO. most Hip Hop media outlets pump up this kind of negative behavior as "cool". So you can expect it from the artists if the outlets allow it.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T13:21:41-06:00

ID

72245

Comment

Ray wrote -" And why is JSU singing the praises of one of the biggest racist to ever disgrace the world - Ted "the grand dragon" Nugent? Ted isn't a racist. where'd you get that crap from? He just has a slew of people on his reality show of all colors playing for a chance to win a Dodge Ram 1500 truck and $25,000 cash. would a racist do that?

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T13:24:29-06:00

ID

72246

Comment

No I don't read rock magazines, JSU. which leads to my point: if I didn't read magazines related to rock or magazines related to rap and I turned on the television to get my news on music and artist, not MTV or BET, the likely hood that there would be equal coverage on the negative sides of rock or rap is unlikely.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T13:28:05-06:00

ID

72247

Comment

You are in fantasy land, JSU, if you don't think Ted Nugent is racist and bigoted. Yes, a racist would do that!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T13:29:17-06:00

ID

72248

Comment

Maybe Ted is undergoing change. I have been quite aware of him for a long time.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T13:31:28-06:00

ID

72249

Comment

most Hip Hop media outlets pump up this kind of negative behavior as "cool". I agree, but I think there is begining to be a change of heart within the hip hop community pertaining to beef being cool. I've noticed lately there are campaigns to end certain beefs, the whole Jay and Nas situation is one I can think of off top. When it comes down to it though, beef is what sells albums. Once upon a time ago beef was just considered rivalry between rappers. Who can spit the most creative rhymes, but certain j@ck@sses coulnd't take someone talking about them and took it to the next level. and now many of times it ain't even the rappers themselves, it's the entourages that they run with who want to keep up mess to feel like they are really doing something. I think that's where the immaturity and no sense of direction, that you wrote about earlier tend to seep in. It's sad but the truth.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T13:38:20-06:00

ID

72250

Comment

Ray wrote -" You are in fantasy land, JSU, if you don't think Ted Nugent is racist and bigoted." got some proof it this claim? Ray con't - " Yes, a racist would do that!" Name one that has done it. or anything close to it.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T13:43:17-06:00

ID

72251

Comment

The latest incident with Ted happened a couple of years ago when he was banned from doing a concert in San Antonio, I believe, due to some bigoted statement he made about Latinos or Mexicans.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T13:48:12-06:00

ID

72252

Comment

I agree with jan, in that beefs seem to be on the decline, except in the eyes of MTV and BET who still try to play up the ones that do exist. I still recall the beef between 50 Cent and the Game from last year that resulted in a shooting by one of the entourage. But I also agree with JSU's point about hip-hop magazines that play to the stereotypical 'gansta' image that artists strive to be seen as. I'm more worried about the message we are sending to kids in the lyrics, that acts of disrespect or beefs should be settled with a gun. As Kim Wade would say, we seem to be "embracing a culture of death", and calling people like Al Sharpton and Bill Cosby crazy for speaking out against it.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-05-15T13:54:59-06:00

ID

72253

Comment

jan2006- " I agree, but I think there is begining to be a change of heart within the hip hop community pertaining to beef being cool. I've noticed lately there are campaigns to end certain beefs, the whole Jay and Nas situation is one I can think of off top. " When did this thinking come about, after Tupac's murder or after Proof's murder? I'm confused. jan2006 con't - "When it comes down to it though, beef is what sells albums." really? jan2006 con't - "Once upon a time ago beef was just considered rivalry between rappers. Who can spit the most creative rhymes, but certain j@ck@sses coulnd't take someone talking about them and took it to the next level." Hence, immaturity in Hip Hop. jan2006 con't- "and now many of times it ain't even the rappers themselves, it's the entourages that they run with who want to keep up mess to feel like they are really doing something. I think that's where the immaturity and no sense of direction, that you wrote about earlier tend to seep in. It's sad but the truth." I'm glad somebody sees this for what it is.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T13:57:33-06:00

ID

72254

Comment

Ray's right. Nugent lost a gig in 2003 for some racial slurs against african americans refering to blacks as the infamous N word and some other racial slur towards Asians, and mexicans saying something to the effect: if you can't speak english get the f out the country or something like that don't quote me verbatim

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T14:01:47-06:00

ID

72255

Comment

I might be old JSU but I'm not unaware or lost. My son, nephews, and everybody else have a rough time getting crap by me.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T14:05:12-06:00

ID

72256

Comment

Ray, I bet $$, Ted Nugent would be one of the first people to get down in the trenches with YOU and Me should we have an invasion of war on our soil. He mnight even let you grab a gun from his gigantic guncase too...lol... Hell, I would roll with Ted Nugent in battle before Al Sharpton or Jess Jackson. them 2 black boys is spineless.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T14:06:02-06:00

ID

72257

Comment

When did this thinking come about, after Tupac's murder or after Proof's murder The whole Jay Z and Nas situation is recent, 2005? After Tupacs death but prior to Proofs death. And yeah beef does sell albums, did you happen to catch the BET special on beef. It talks about the the first so called "beefs" and how they started and how they have gotten totally out of control, but yeah your right, it's immaturity. Let me provide some examples of how "beef" sells. Nas and Jay Z, Biggie and Tupac, T.I. and Lil Flip, Game and .50 are all 'beefers' I can think of off top. People look foward (or have in the past) to their album and go out to purchase their album for the talent, most definitely but also to hear what they are saying about one another.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T14:12:03-06:00

ID

72258

Comment

I know all about Ted's fetish for guns, too. However as soon as the terrorist is killed, Ted will tell you to get your behind back where you belong. I have problems with Jessie but I still love him. I have a few problems with Al too but I still love him. Judging from that comment above; clearly, you're the one without a spine, any sense, or any respect for those who fought arduous battles for us assuming you're black, which I can not further assume. When have you faced the threat of death for civil rights or anything else worthy of fighting for? I'm out on this one unless the doctor post her column.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T14:16:15-06:00

ID

72259

Comment

jan2006 -"Ray's right. Nugent lost a gig in 2003 for some racial slurs against african americans refering to blacks as the infamous N word and some other racial slur towards Asians, and mexicans saying something to the effect: if you can't speak english get the f out the country or something like that don't quote me verbatim" Ray's wrong. he was pulled off a show, but he turned around and sued the festival and won $100,000. that was in Michigan. a racist can't do that? Nugent is cashing in too. festival planners better stop pulling him off the shows or get hit in the pockets. ......"speak english or get the f-ck out the country" Sounds American as apple pie to me...lol

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T14:17:27-06:00

ID

72260

Comment

It wasn't Michigan I'm talking about.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T14:18:34-06:00

ID

72261

Comment

speaking of poor coverage on Rockers, Ted Nugent's case is classic one. you people skim the surface and not dig for the facts. Nugent LOVES NWA, Rosa Parks(Craveman album was dedicated to her), etc.. He loves Ameirca. he's no bigot, that's all media hype spoon-fed to all of you. I've heard interviews with the guy and he's humble and not a racist bone in his body. the media has black-balled him because he's so outspoken and you all believe it.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T14:23:22-06:00

ID

72262

Comment

Yeah JSU he may not have literally 'lost' due to breach of contract but they didn't want him there because of what they stood for "family values" i suppose, did not equal up to what he stood for.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T14:25:25-06:00

ID

72263

Comment

I'm not against Nugent but I can't say that I care too much for the man either. I'm not saying he's a racist or a bigot.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T14:26:33-06:00

ID

72264

Comment

jan2006 wrote - "Let me provide some examples of how "beef" sells. Nas and Jay Z, Biggie and Tupac, T.I. and Lil Flip, Game and .50 are all 'beefers' I can think of off top. People look foward (or have in the past) to their album and go out to purchase their album for the talent, most definitely but also to hear what they are saying about one another." sounds more like immaturity sells, to me.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T14:26:43-06:00

ID

72265

Comment

Thank God I can read and hear, too.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T14:27:38-06:00

ID

72266

Comment

I'm derailing this thread for a minute to give Kamikaze a shout out for a great interview in today's C-L. Definitely worth a read. I imagine most of the regulars know all about Kamikaze, but I had no clue about his background.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-05-15T14:28:49-06:00

ID

72267

Comment

sounds more like immaturity sells, to me. Yep but it is the truth. Which is why I'm glad Jay and Nas quelled their beef and some other artists are following suit. They set the example adn others are following. It may take some time for some of the younger rappers to get the bigger picture though.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T14:36:48-06:00

ID

72268

Comment

....Ray wrote - "I know all about Ted's fetish for guns, too. However as soon as the terrorist is killed, Ted will tell you to get your behind back where you belong." And you know this from the media's biased against him, right? ...Ray con't - "I have problems with Jessie but I still love him. I have a few problems with Al too but I still love him." But as soon as you took a bullet they would leave you for dead, running like the cowards they are. I'll take my chances with Ted Nugent. ..Ray con't -"Judging from that comment above; clearly, you're the one without a spine, any sense, or any respect for those who fought arduous battles for us assuming you're black, which I can not further assume. When have you faced the threat of death for civil rights or anything else worthy of fighting for? I'll re-use a piece of one of your quotes "I have problems with Jesse..." and therefore I can't stand him...lol

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T14:42:18-06:00

ID

72269

Comment

thanks, ejeff, that article was definitley worth the read. I love the fact that Kamikaze is on both sides of the track, he has the ability to reach those less fortunate and communicate a strong positive message in a manner they understand and then he has the ability to communicate effectively with the individuals who would usually stereotype him upon appearance, and shock them in the process. Keep doing what you are doing kamikaze you a positive force in jackson, and we definitly need you.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-15T14:48:28-06:00

ID

72270

Comment

JSU, you no longer merit a comment from me. Good luck whomever and whatever you are.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T14:48:36-06:00

ID

72271

Comment

Ray wrote - "JSU, you no longer merit a comment from me. Good luck whomever and whatever you are." And that....is the bottom line...lol....I couldn't resist. At least you're not afraid to show your sensitive side, Ray...lol

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-15T15:08:39-06:00

ID

72272

Comment

No sensitivity here. Just trying to avoid waste.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-15T15:45:40-06:00

ID

72273

Comment

I would like to point out the following: During my years of "sex, drugs, rock-and-roll," (the sixties and early seventies), whites were not going to hell in a handbasket. Young white males didn't go to jail at a higher rate than college. White women were not having babies out-of-wedlock 70% of the time. The white family still had a "structure" that nurtured it's members. Yes, the sixties were a turbulent time. However, most of the intelligent folks involved (I hope I might have been one of them), understood that, ultimately, knowledge was power, drugs were an avocation, and that the serious pursuit of intellectual endeavors would lead to a better world that we envisioned. This world was based on good intentions, but more importantly, hard work and a belief in oneself. Jail, unemployment, undereducation, educational drop-outs, teenage pregnancy, no-father children, no-father families, no father college graduates, mothers-without-fathers, children without fathers, children without family units, families without a head of household with a job, high infant mortality, children with only an unmarried mother followed this "Revolution." The Revolution (The Great Society) was a colossal failure. It led to nothing other than capable men and women (especially women) living on the dole, having bastard babies, ignoring their education, and furthering their families into HELL. They had only to inherit a culture of poverty and dependence. I'm no racist fool--the same scenario happens in poor white families. I have worked with a terrific black man. He grew up in the "infamous" Cabrini Green Towers in Chicago, along with his 5 siblings. He graduated from high school in 1989. His father died in a car accident, and he was raised in this documented "hell-hole." His Mom worked menial cleaning jobs, many shifts. All of her children escaped Cabrini and graduated from college. They are now proud heads-of-households." This man has been my anesthesiology technologist for years. I depend on his every move, and he has never failed me. He is a terrific and involved father. A few months ago he told me he'd received another offer at another institution that would double his pay, and pay for his further education in his field. Despite how much I'd miss him, I advised him to take this job and run with it. I advised him that he was a terrific worker, and because of this, I wished him nothing other than the best, and that he should take the best job for him and his family. Kamikaze: These are the children you should talk to. I also remind you that you have two children by two different women who do not appear to be your wives. You should spend all your time with these children. However, this must be difficult, because they live in distant towns. You should spend all your time with your children, and stop all this mentoring nonsense with other men's and women's children. Hie thee to your home. HDMatthias, MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-15T19:20:20-06:00

ID

72274

Comment

During my years of "sex, drugs, rock-and-roll," (the sixties and early seventies), whites were not going to hell in a handbasket. Young white males didn't go to jail at a higher rate than college. Doc, with due respect, I grew up in Neshoba County in the '60s and '70s -- and I was surrounded by immoral, violent young white men. Not every single one of them, of course. But then, most of them weren't being sent to jail for their lapses in morality. No, Kamikaze does not need to "stop all this mentoring nonsense" -- that's absurd. His children are going to benefit from having the kind of father who does that, instead of selfishly point fingers at other families. I salute him. And if you're bashing Kamikaze for having two different children by two different women, I respectfully suggest that you get to know more of your neighbors in North Jackson. I know one "prominent" man who screwed around on his wife while she was pregnant. Just sayin'.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-15T19:31:16-06:00

ID

72275

Comment

Ms. Ladd: With all due respect, please read my article in the Northside Sun a few weeks ago. No sociologic strata is immune from "bad parenting." Does Mr. Kamikaze pay generous and resonable amounts of child support to his children? How much? Based on what income? What is his yearly income? How much time does Mr. Kamikaze spend each week with his children? How does he influence the lives of his children? How does he instruct his children to be "good" boys and girls? Regarding "fathers" of "illegitimate" children in NE Jackson---shame on them, and on their mothers. It takes "two to tango." Whoever is "at fault" should be responsible. Sincerely, HDMatthias, MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-15T19:58:16-06:00

ID

72276

Comment

I'm not sure those questions are any of our business. But I've seen Kamikaze with his son. He seems to be a remarkable young men. Careful with your assumptions.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-15T20:01:04-06:00

ID

72277

Comment

Did everyone see the feature on Kamikaze in yesterday's (May 15) Clarion Ledger? It gave a great in-depth look at how he got started, the initial effects of Banner's major deal and how he rebounded. Great testament to the man that he has become.

Author

c a webb

Date

2006-05-16T09:28:28-06:00

ID

72278

Comment

"Kamikaze: These are the children you should talk to. I also remind you that you have two children by two different women who do not appear to be your wives. You should spend all your time with these children. However, this must be difficult, because they live in distant towns. You should spend all your time with your children, and stop all this mentoring nonsense with other men's and women's children." MA'AM OR SIR BEFORE YOU TREAD ON THAT ISSUE LET ME FIRST SAY THAT YOU ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF ORDER AND CROSSING A LINE THAT YOU DONT DARE CROSS. AND DONNA I WILL KEEP MY COOL BUT TO SPEAK ON MY FAMILY AND/OR MY INVOLVEMENT WITH MY KIDS WITHOUT KNOWING ME ISNT COOOL. FYI ONLY MY DAUGHTER LIVES OUT OF TOWN(IN MEMPHIS) AND I SPEAK WITH HER REGULARLY IN FACT SHE SPENDS THE ENTIRE SUMMER WITH ME EVERY YEAR. MY SON LIVES ONLY MOMENTS AWAY FROM ME AND I SEE HIM EVERYDAY. I EVEN CUT BACK ON MY AFTERNOON SCHEDULE THIS YEAR TO BE AT HOME WHEN HE ARRIVES TO INTERACT WITH HIM. BUT NONE OF THOSE THANGS ARE YOUR BUSINESS QUITE FRANKLY! BTW MY CHILDREN ARE TAKEN CARE OF NOT BECAUSE THE STATE TELLS ME TO BUT BECAUSE IM DOING WHAT A GODDAMN MAN IS SUPPOSED TO DO. AND WHAT I PAY OR MAKE IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS BUT LETS JUST SAY IVE BEEN MY OWN BOSS SINCE I SIGNED MY FIRST RECORD DEAL IN 1997! THAT IS WHY I ASKED THAT MY PERSONAL LIFE NOT BE BROUGHT INTO THE ARTICLE. I NEVER DISCUSS MY HOME LIFE OR MY KIDS BECAUSE THAT ASPECT OF MY LIFE IS JUST THAT...PRIVATE AND NOT OPEN TO DEBATE BUT SINCE THE AUTHOR DID MENTION THEM, I FIGURED IT WOULD BE A POINT OF DISCUSSION. LETS JUST SAY GOOD DOCTOR THAT I SHOW AND PROVE BY MY ACTIONS. IF YOU WISH TO HEAR WHAT I TELL THESE KIDS THEN I SUGGEST YOU COME WITH ME TO ONE OF MY MENTORING SESSIONS OR WHEN I GO TO SPEAK AT THESE SCHOOLS AND YOU'LL SEE FOR YOURSELF. IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD GOOD DOCTOR AND I JUST WANT TO DO MY PART. THESE KIDS LISTEN TO ME SO I FEEL OBLIGATED TO TRY AND BE A POSITIVE INFLUENCE NOT JUST IN MUSIC BUT IN LIFE. NOT THAT THAT WAS ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS. IT IS NOT UP TO YOU OR ANY OTHER BEING ON EARTH TO PUT "SHAME" ON ANYONE. I SUGGEST YOU GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND USE YOUR INFLUENCE TO HELP SOME OF THE DISENFRANCHISED AROUND TOWN UNLESS YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE TOO GOOD. AND NO MR. WEBB THE CL DIDNT GET IN-DEPTH REALLY. IM SAVING THE JUICY STUFF FOR MY JFP INTERVIEW!! JUST NADA ON THE HOME LIFE. I WILL NOT PUT THAT UP FOR PUBLIC DEBATE ANYMORE.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2006-05-16T10:28:21-06:00

ID

72279

Comment

Yes Doc, I would have bet money you abused hard drugs and sex. I bet it was a great part of your youthful culture and surroundings. The only reason more of you didn't self-destruct and go to jail was because you had parents who pulled strings and police persons who didn't slam your sorry butts into jail for abusing and passing drugs. Despite your wayward ways you thought then and now that you're the model, paradign, archetype, mould, and prototype for what good and great about America. The only reason larger numbers of you didn't go to hell in a handbasket is because the white system had a vested interest in protecting and making sure you didn't go. In my opinion, you were just as unable as anyone else to save yourself. Privilege, skin color, luck, and help from others have accounted just as much for your success as any brillance or intelligence you possess. Some people work harder than any of you white people ever have but never get the chance that some of you get due to being black in America. What did all that hard work bebefit the slaves and their descendants? Do you support reparations, Doc? It is far easier to believe in oneself and the system when you're white and living in the United States of America. The great society was not a colossal failure. Ask the many people who succeeded as a result of it was it a failure. Whenever money is extended or spent toward black folks or the poor, in order to satisfy the bias of people like you, the program has to be a monumental success according to the terms you set. What about the billions of dollars spent on ideas, concepts, and programs to benefit mostly whites that fail? When these programs fail none of people like you blame the masses of white folks, you blame the program. But when program allegedly meant to benefit black folks fail, you blame the masses of black folks for the program's failure. I bet people like you aren't even blaming Bush and the republicans for the failed war in Iraq despite all the billions spent and lives lost on both sides to no apprent avail. Just like in your article in the Sun times, you spend nearly all your time trying to detail the failures of black folks, and only a couple of second mentioning the failures of poor whites or any whites. You're not masking your hatred of black folks at all. You are indeed writing for the right paper in order to spew the garbage you write.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-16T10:30:07-06:00

ID

72280

Comment

Okay look, I (AGAIN) am completed disgusted with the audacity some people have. How dare you say anything about this man's personal life just to find some way to degrade him and I'll tell you why you do it....Because he is a black man with a voice in the community, he has followers and supporter and he is making a difference. So for the typical naysayers, it is your job to find something wrong with him. There has to be something he is f'ed up about, right. Well, let me just say I think it is ridiculous for him to even respond to those child support questions. He need not even endulge in that simple minded, reach for degredation. Kamikaze is a stand up guy. I respect him not only for what he does with the kids in the community, but for what he does for his kids as well. I think this thread should be locked and Kamikaze should apologize to those of us who support him for even debating on this bullsh!t with that person up there. I am sorry for my words, but I know this man and it is a slap in the face for me as a supporter and for him to have to even read this crap from someone who knows nothing about this man's personal life. Yall do Frank the same way. What is it with these folk? How in the world are we ever gonna make things happen in the community to make our lives and our kids lives better if we try and demean everyone who steps to the plate....the plate by which the naysayers have not stepped to. They want to sit and chat and comdemn and I haven't seen any articles signed by them.....STOP THE HATERATION and start CONGRATULATING. Kaze mayne don't even dignify this any longer. You are better than this and your personal life is just that....PERSONAL. You owe no one any explanations on how you run your personal life and they should be ashamed to ask you for any explanations. You've already been quite vocal about your personal thoughts and convictions and your family should have nothing to do with it. Child support and baby mama's included. GET A GRIP FOLKZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-16T11:17:36-06:00

ID

72281

Comment

How dare you say anything about this man's personal life just to find some way to degrade him and I'll tell you why you do it. I agree with Queen. That is beyond the pale. To Doc's credit, she does criticize Melton heavily -- but he is a public official. Kamikaze is not. He is a young man with a strong voice who is trying to figure out this crazy world and help other young people do the same. The people who criticize him for doing that after dumping all the problems of the world at young black men's (and women's) feet are hypocrites, pure and simple. And certainly the ones who would question Kamikaze in such a way and not the mayor are just dumb.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T11:25:29-06:00

ID

72282

Comment

Good point Donna. I concur.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-16T12:20:33-06:00

ID

72283

Comment

For the record, I like sex, rock and roll. I have never used drugs. My point about people who call themselves leaders is this: "Walk the walk if you're going to talk the talk." Two illegitimate children living somewhere else is not walking the walk. That is my point. HDMATTHIAS. MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-16T12:27:12-06:00

ID

72284

Comment

To use the words 'mentoring nonsense' in the same sentence reveals the fantasy land you live in doc. With all due respect how can you question a man, whom you don't even know well, and the way he lives his life. Sounds like someone is really passing judgement on others. As far as walking the walk and talking the talk: People cannot go back in time and change decisions they've made, children can't be swallowed back up in their mothers’ womb until the parents are ready to have them. I'm pretty sure Kamikaze is aware of things he could have done differently in his life growing up, as WE ALL do, but my point is, HE IS walking the walk and talking the talk. His personal life is none of yours or our business and for you to think that "Two illegitimate children living somewhere else is not walking the walk." reveals your ignorance. There are many 'illegitimate' children living out of wedlock in this world, and many of whom who are NOT being care for by one or both parents. This man is taking care of his business and providing for his children, no matter where they live. What would be so different from a man who is divorced who does not live with his children but is taking care of his children and what you are speaking of about Kamikaze? Nothing, but a piece of paper that says he was once married but now he's divorced and his children live elsewhere. So I really don't see the point that you are trying to make, it just sounds like a bunch of judgment nonsense to me. Advising an ABLE man NOT to help (mentor) other children in need because of 'illegitimate' children who are obviously well cared for, I think someone needs some mentoring themselves. This world is bigger than you and me, and our individual families, Kamikaze knows that and is acting on that........don't question him...... question yourself.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-16T13:46:07-06:00

ID

72285

Comment

Well, you know jan2006, responsible white men who don't piddle around in hip-hop would never, ever divorce a wife and have children with two different women. Not in a million friggin' years. I really can't believe these attacks on Kamikaze. They are very telling and proves that young black men are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The attackers are saying much more about themsleves than about Kamikaze. "Mentoring nonsense," my a$$.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T13:50:52-06:00

ID

72286

Comment

Doc, you have pointed out our many problems quite well. I can't deny that we have many if not all of those. How do we fix them? I'm open for answers from anybody. Kamikaze and those others of us who care can't concentrate on just our personal situations becuase of the multitude of the problems you set forth so well. We have to reach out. There are too many fathers in jail, absent or dead. It would be irresponsible and uncaring on your part to list all of those problems with no solutions. Unless your only goal is to show we're without worth or any good. Like you, I wish most of us would avoid the problems you listed and finish high school and college. But I know racism would create another set of problems for us because those black people who do finish high school and attend college are rarely if ever given the same opportunity that whites are given. Do you deny that racism and "the double standard" still exist. If you agree they still exist then tell us what you're simultaneously doing to alleviate or address those, too, if anything. I'm proud you never used drugs. Neither have I. Not even women using sex as a tool could get me to try drugs.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-16T14:05:28-06:00

ID

72287

Comment

that part: the 'mentoring nonsense' really tripps me out ...the things people believe.......or make themselves believe

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-16T14:06:22-06:00

ID

72288

Comment

That is the most ridiculous statement ever. Clearly you are too simple to bring yourself to a clear understanding about this. Firstly he has said that he supports his children. I guess you are one of those people who would expect that a man and woman remain together after the love is gone, after differences can not be reconciled, just for the sake of the child. Since you are not in a situation to understand this, it can be more harmful for a child to be reared in a situation where neither parent is happy than for them to remain together to make it look good for folk like you. Besides that, because he is not with his children's mother's does not make him any less of a leader. Maybe he can teach young men how to practice safe sex or absenence until they are more prepared to raise a family having gone down this road. And thus making him an even more suitable leader for having been there himself. You sicken me with this display of closed mindedness.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-16T14:13:07-06:00

ID

72289

Comment

Maybe he can teach young men how to practice safe sex or absenence until they are more prepared to raise a family having gone down this road <--Queen601 Exactly, that is what mentoring is, right? Trying to help others not to make the same mistakes you made? So how on earth could mentoring be nonsense?????

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-16T14:18:39-06:00

ID

72290

Comment

I'm dumbfounded on that one.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-16T14:19:12-06:00

ID

72291

Comment

Jan2006, I am dumbfounded by the DOC's entire stance on this situation. I'm interested in knowing what type of MD could be this uninformed.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-16T14:25:00-06:00

ID

72292

Comment

What amazes me about all this is the presumption that Kamikaze could go out and marry these women any day if he wanted to--that they're both sitting there pining for his return. Well, that and the fact that people who don't know Kamikaze in person are making these kinds of very deep, "knowledgeable" judgments about his character. Welll, that and also the fact that they're really punishing Kamikaze for his honesty, not for actually having had these relationships. And what's being said here pales in comparison to what's being said on the right-wing gossip blog. But then they're back to crucifying Erik Fleming now, too, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-16T14:26:00-06:00

ID

72293

Comment

I'm not sure there's a lot of collected moral authority over there to be saying such things, Tom. They are proof positive of how much work there is left to do in Mississippi. They probably all read a page or two out of "Race and Reason" every day. Or, at least they sound like they do.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T14:30:42-06:00

ID

72294

Comment

JUST left there TH and believe me, they are even wackier than this doctor!!!! Here's what I just posted: "Maybe you guys are missing the point. The fact that the man has made some mistakes...well I won't say kids are a "mistake" we misused that word here. the fact that he has owned up to his past is noble in the least. Frankly, thats what makes him such an effective voice to these kids. Partially because he's not wagging his finger at these kids as if he's perfect. He's made some missteps. and whether you like it or not kids respect that waaaay more than a lecture. He's real. and thats why he is who he is. He's been where some these kids are. Why the hell do you think they listen in the first place??? Why are you holier-than -thou types not getting heard...because you cant get through to someone unless you've walked in their shoes. You guys just hover above ground walking on water as if you've never lusted, fornicated, told a lie, or anything of the sort. Disgusting. He's JUST the person to talk to these kids!!!!"

Author

trusip

Date

2006-05-16T14:33:26-06:00

ID

72295

Comment

You guys just hover above ground walking on water as if you've never lusted, fornicated, told a lie, or anything of the sort. Chewing on my tongue here.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T14:35:12-06:00

ID

72296

Comment

Donna, I tried to have a conversation about race with one of these fellas, who immediately threw out an imaginary figure about "90%" of crime in the United States--not Jackson, but the United States--being committed by black men. I immediately dropped the conversation. I don't know why I keep talking to these people. It never goes anywhere productive. They're so emotionally invested in proving their manhood that they'll never back down, no matter what the evidence says. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-16T14:35:27-06:00

ID

72297

Comment

Great post, trusip. :o) Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-16T14:36:18-06:00

ID

72298

Comment

I don't know why you do, either. They are morons, pure and simple. And they make fools out of themselves on a regular basis. I think it's great. They prove our point regularly that the work isn't "over," yet. There are still people making Putnam's arguments on a regular basis—and not knowing, or not caring, that they sound just like their granddaddies in the White Citizens Council.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T14:38:16-06:00

ID

72299

Comment

Doc I have a friend who is an anesthesiologist also. Uncle Sam is tearing him a new @ss. He has a family of 4 and a house in Los Angeles and Las Vegas but he's still crying about Uncle Sam. Is the tax matter the thing that has you angry at the underclass and blacks? I'm desperately trying to understand.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-16T14:39:47-06:00

ID

72300

Comment

Why the hell do you think they listen in the first place??? Why are you holier-than -thou types not getting heard...because you cant get through to someone unless you've walked in their shoes. Very good points, trusip. I just don't understand what it is about this fact that some people just don't seem to want to understand. It seems obvious.....to some and not to others.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-16T14:40:16-06:00

ID

72301

Comment

Would somebody please tell me where "over there" is so I can look over there, too?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-16T14:42:31-06:00

ID

72302

Comment

We don't link to that site here -- just trash it. ;-) Really. I'll e-mail you, though, although I'm not sure you want to look at the car wreck.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T14:47:38-06:00

ID

72303

Comment

ditto ray

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-16T14:50:14-06:00

ID

72304

Comment

e-mail me, Queen

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T14:51:11-06:00

ID

72305

Comment

Queen, could you email me, while you're at it? Not about this. Something else. :o) Thanks! Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-16T14:52:08-06:00

ID

72306

Comment

I wonder if Dr. Matthias is aware that there is an enormous high school dropout problem all across this country that affects whites as well as blacks. Poor people are always disproportionately represented in negative numbers and since a disproportionate percentage of black people are poor since the days of slavery one would expect what we see. Does the doctor think that we might be seeing the lingering effects of a system of slavery and post-slavery (supported by authorities up until about only about 35 years ago) that systematically undermined black families and black men's dignity? Does the doctor expect that 400 years of dehumanization (there was a holocaust comitted against black people -- millions died in the ocean alone (some jumped overboard rather than be raped) not to mention those murdered after they got here) will be overcome in only 35 years?!!!! It is a miracle that we have simply survived!!! Everybody makes mistakes. The greatness is in going forward and doing positive things. Dr. Matthias must be without sin --- casting all these stones. Kamikaze is a very sensitive and thoughtful person. He spoke to Head Start parents last year and showed that he is aware of his responsibilites as a parent. He doesn't need a lecture on parenting. Might the disproportionate number of black men in prison be related to the legacy of unequal access to education that only BEGAN to change over the last 35 years? Might it be related to the FACT that black people are disproportionately sentenced to jail time for the same crimes that whites receive probation...that black people receive longer sentences for the same crimes? Until there is justice there will be no peace -- only more violence. And that's the truth.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2006-05-16T14:52:41-06:00

ID

72307

Comment

Donna, I think I can probably guess where to go now! And I think you're right, I'm not sure I can even deal with all that today! :-)

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-16T14:54:46-06:00

ID

72308

Comment

I went by the Northside Sun this morning so I could get another copy of the good doctor column written a couple of weeks ago. The office wasn't open then. This is my last question to the doctor. Doctor, did you have a personal relationship with one of us who did you wrong and has caused you to especially be bitter toward us?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-16T15:31:31-06:00

ID

72309

Comment

Mr. Carter, I have no personal relationships with anyone other than my spouse, my family, and my friends. I know no one who works at The Jackson Free Press. Here's where I'm "coming from:" The out-of-wedlock birth rate in the black community (in Mississippi and nationwide) is 70%. The illegitimacy rate in the white/hispanic community in the US is 35-45% for each ethnic category. Teenage and single motherhood pregnancies lead to the following: poverty, drug abuse, undereducation, no education, government dependency, repeat poverty, spousal abuse, etc. The pathology of poverty cannot be solved by more money. This pathology must be solved by local communities. These solutions involve, most importantly, parents and families. I think that black churches have avoided commenting on all these problems, for reasons that escape me, perhaps because so many ministers have not traveled the "striaght and narrow." HDMatthias, MD NB--George Bush and his cronies have sold this country down the drain. This Republican administration has spent itself beyond our means. However, most Americans want everyone else to pay for their entiltlements. These entiltlements include Social Security payments beyond those paid into the system, Medicare payments beyond those paid for, etc. This country needs to dissolve itself of this sociopathy. This dependence on government payments includes blacks, whites, rich, and poor. HDMatthias, MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-16T19:51:42-06:00

ID

72310

Comment

Dr. Matthias, We are all aware of the statistics you have provided above. Our concern, or rather my concern is not with the statement of the problem but the solution as Carter mentioned somewhere above. You state: "pathology must be solved by local communities. These solutions involve, most importantly, parents and families." Does this include the 'mentoring nonsense' you previously wrote about. You stated for Kamikaze to: "You should spend all your time with your children, and stop all this mentoring nonsense with other men's and women's children" Is he not apart of the community and attempting to be apart of the solution rather than the problem?

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-16T20:02:22-06:00

ID

72311

Comment

You know, re-reading the comments, Kamikaze has a point. Why in hell are people talking about HIS CHILDREN??? These are kids who live in this community, and all sorts of assumptions have been made about him that are simply out of order and out of line. I will delete anything else that involves his children from this site, and anythign he asks me to to date. I'm not responsible for that other hate site, but people there have attacked other people's children in the past and upset much of North Jackson in the process. So no surprises from people with no souls. I can't believe that grown men who actually have children would dare to talk about other people's children in public the way they do. They are son of a b!tches of the highest order. Quote me on that.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T20:06:12-06:00

ID

72312

Comment

Dr. Matthias, aka Petition #121, I think it's funny you keep mentioning dependency programs... I'm not saying that the estate tax is fair, but if you're concerned about government expenditures and belt-tightening, it seems to me that it's better to keep the estate tax than starve the poor. Creating a permanent, ghettoized underclass ensures that the crime rate will not go down and the graduation rate will not go up. But give everyone a real fighting chance, and it'll only be a matter of decades before the racial disparities folks keep citing won't exist anymore. A lot of people know this, and I think that's behind many people's objections to social welfare: They don't really want to live in a world where those disparities don't exist. And agreed re: the other site. You know, it amazes me that folks who apply such strict moral standards to total strangers, about whom they know virtually nothing, have so few scruples when it comes to their own behavior. I looked up Race and Reason and found this page from the SPLC--and Glayde Whitney from Florida State sounds just like our macho little friend on the other site, right down to the questionable "statistics." I wonder if they're cousins? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-16T20:32:50-06:00

ID

72313

Comment

Petition #121 --> Petitioner #121

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-16T20:34:14-06:00

ID

72314

Comment

Dear Donna: This is not my hate site, nor do I espouse hate. Here's what I want. I want folks to take care of themselves. I don't want to take care of other folks' and their pathology. I want people to be responsible for their own actions, including sexual behaviors, etc. As I've stated before, I don't care (as a Libertarian) what others do in their sexual lives. I just don't want to pay for any of it. How can other folks object to this opinion? HDMatthias, MD BTW--I am not a son of a bitch. However, I'd love to know whether Kamikaze's children are on any type of welfare--Medicaid, Chips, etc. Does he pay any type of child support? Just me. And I have a huge soul. My soul includes mothers and (very unusually) fathers who love and dote on their children, rich and poor. I take care of an enormous number of poor children, almost solely children of single mothers without an education, work, or employablility. I am enriched by these children, and I cry every night when I think of them and go to bed. These children are deprived of their future by their very heritage. HDM

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-16T20:39:04-06:00

ID

72315

Comment

don't want to take care of other folks' and their pathology. Doc, name me one person here who has asked you to do those things. You have a mighty blind spot, ma'am. It reminds me of another blogger who used to post here -- intelligently, except for on anything to do with race or ethnicity. I didn't call you a son of a b!tch. That was about a bunch of hatemongers who have stalked me and the JFP for years now, talking about my childlessness and regularly telling lies about us. Now, I hear, they are all-out attacking Kamikaze and accusing him of things they cannot know to be true. They are assuming things about him because he is a black man. I hope you are not doing the same thing. Doc, stop asking about Kamikaze's children, or I will suspend you so fast it'll make your well-educated head spin. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND DECENCY, SOME THINGS ARE NONE OF YOUR, OR THE SON OF A B!TCHES', BUSINESS. LEAVE KAMIKAZE'S CHILDREN OUT OF THIS. Sorry, I'm not seeing your soul. Not in these posts. In fact, it sounds more like a bit of pathology, but I'm not the expert on such things. I hear someone who wants to blame, and who has no qualms at parading someone else's children in public to try to make a stereotypical point. I will tell you this, and it's all I will say: I know the mother of Kamikaze's son, and that woman puts most men in this state to shame, not to mention a doctor who makes such sweeping statements about people. Now, no more talk about his children. Got it? Not one word, or you or anything else can let the screen door hit your a$$ on the way out. I don't play when it comes to kids, sweetheart.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T20:47:18-06:00

ID

72316

Comment

***Now, no more talk about his children. Got it? Not one word, or you or anything else can let the screen door hit your a$$ on the way out. I don't play when it comes to kids, sweetheart.*** <---ladd Hallelujah!!! Very well put, Donna. I was beginning to get sick of the Doc spewing poisonous comments all over the place! In the process of being fair and objective, you also demonstrate that when it comes to principle...You. Don't. Take. No. $hit. Way to go!!!

Author

Kacy

Date

2006-05-16T21:15:49-06:00

ID

72317

Comment

Hell, no, I don't. Real human beings leave people's kids out of their political squabbles. Even black kids -- who are the most used political pawns in this country. This p!ssed me off. Quote me on that. People like this better re-think their strategy or stay off my damned Web site.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T21:17:54-06:00

ID

72318

Comment

Thank you Donna. I think that is a VERY clear line with the kids. And I refer sonS of bitches.

Author

emilyb

Date

2006-05-16T21:30:09-06:00

ID

72319

Comment

Thank you Donna. I think that is a VERY clear line with the kids. And I prefer sonS of bitches.

Author

emilyb

Date

2006-05-16T21:30:22-06:00

ID

72320

Comment

**Hell, no, I don't. Real human beings leave people's kids out of their political squabbles. Even black kids -- who are the most used political pawns in this country.** <--- ladd And even after Kamikaze plainly said earlier that he would not discuss his children again, the Doc had the gall to go right back there. My late grandpa would've called that *more nerve than a brass a$$ed monkey*. I was getting pissed too. Keep at it, Donna!

Author

Kacy

Date

2006-05-16T21:30:27-06:00

ID

72321

Comment

**Hell, no, I don't. Real human beings leave people's kids out of their political squabbles. Even black kids -- who are the most used political pawns in this country.** <--- ladd And even after Kamikaze plainly said earlier that he would not discuss his children again, the Doc had the gall to go right back there. My late grandpa would've called that *more nerve than a brass a$$ed monkey*. I was getting pissed too. Keep at it, Donna!

Author

Kacy

Date

2006-05-16T21:32:18-06:00

ID

72322

Comment

Emily is right—"sons of b!tches" it is. The same sons of bitches that go on and on about how I don't have children have the unmitigated gall to speculate about someone else's "illegitimacy." There's a special padded room in hell for people like that -- they can meet roll with ole Ross when they get there, and feel right friggin at home. I wish one of them would walk in front of me right now so I could spit in his privileged little face. I'm serious: The attack-the-kids thing has really twisted my thong. Lowdown sons of b!tches. (What my mama used to call the scum of the earth just came back to me, Em. Thanks.) Going offline. Later, friends. Keep the faith.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-05-16T21:35:40-06:00

ID

72323

Comment

Doc, I'm still trying to view you as a serious, open-minded, and unbias person with respect to this pathology you have set forth above. Your anger is so clear, and, as a doctor, you know anger and worry are not good for your health or mental state. Moreover, and often, neither of those accomplish anything. I asked earlier whether you had solutions too, or were, more or less, just like David Duke caring only about magnifying the pathology. Your answer generally and roughly is to look to family, community, parents, and churches, all of which have failed us thus far. I agree that the answer is likely found there. However, if all of these entities have failed us this far, isn't it likely that help beyond these entities are needed. I don't see how you can really care and be so outrageously against outside assistance. Do you propose just letting those people die out? Would that satisfy you? I realize that what I'm saying is quite simplistic, but so was your answer. You should have complimented or thanked Kamikaze for not attacking you or your family after you kept doing it to him. No, he doesn't know anything about you or your family but he can extrapolate, conjecture or surmise just as you have done based on his articles you have read and the fact that he's a rapper. I do understand your argument about people fending for themselves. This should be everyone's goal. I'm willing to spend money and give otherwise of myself to teach and aid anyone willing to learn how to achieve this. I will also give money to keep from starving those who won't fend for themselves. I even paid some drug dealers not to kill one of my strung-out brothers. I figured it was less painful to pay for that than to pay for the funeral and then live with all that guilt. I do this because I want the Almighty to have mercy on me should I ever get caught in a jam I can't handle for whatever reason. No person has it so together that they're insulated or impervious to pain, failure, downfall or catasrophe. If you think I'm wrong ask some of the millions still living who have walked this journey. Everyone needs mercy and grace from a greater source or someone other than themselves. I thank you for whatever assistance and help you're giving poor people whose chances grow thinner day by day. You should pat yourself on the back when you do this for surely there is no hiding place from the creator.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T09:46:53-06:00

ID

72324

Comment

Ray, your last post was absolutely astounding. However, wasted, in my opinon on this person. I am tempted to find a way to let the people who trust this doctor with their lives know just how unsound her judgment is. I can not believe that someone who would have to have some form of open mindedness to see people of all facets of race and assist them with something as profound as living would not be so judgemental and founded on stereotypical thoughts. I am completely outraged by this and the idea that this person is unwavering in her ignorance.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-17T10:23:32-06:00

ID

72325

Comment

That's ok Queen because: "Many a problems, many a joy Life can be fun but never a toy Many a good times Many a bad Thankful fo all the times that I have had But when the sun comes tomorrow and if I'm blessed with another day I have found life's middle ground Halfway up and half way down Many a sorrows many a pain Better person I have become Many a laugh, many a smiles Building up from every down And when the sun comes tomorrow And if I'm blessed with another day at least I have found life's middle ground Half way up Half way down"

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T11:45:56-06:00

ID

72326

Comment

wow. I've come back to an utter quagmire....lol I'd like to play devil's advocate on behalf of the doctor for a sec... Ray wrote -" Your answer generally and roughly is to look to family, community, parents, and churches, all of which have failed us thus far." Are you speaking for just your family or all black families in general? Ray wrote -" I agree that the answer is likely found there. However, if all of these entities have failed us this far, isn't it likely that help beyond these entities are needed? So because it failed in the 60's (your day) it can't work in the new millennium? You don't give the new generation much credit, or hope for that matter. Ray wrote -"I don't see how you can really care and be so outrageously against outside assistance." Black people used to be able to stand on their own two, but I see your thinking has been damaged in that aspect. time to hit the reset button. Ray wrote -" Do you propose just letting those people die out? Would that satisfy you?" I don't suspect that's her angle. Also, I think she was just calling out Kamikaze on his responsibilities to his own kids to see if he is "mentoring" them along with the programs he's already into for somebody elses kids. Unless I missed something, she didn't slander him or his kids. to call mentoring "nonsense" was a bit much overboard though, doc.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T12:34:17-06:00

ID

72327

Comment

Of course you'd like to play devil's advocate for the doctor....birds of a feather.....

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-17T12:36:45-06:00

ID

72328

Comment

You can not sugar coat the fact that she dug into his personal life with no discretion. IT IS NOT HER BUSINESS NOR IS IT YOURS WHAT THAT MAN DOES IN HIS PERSONAL LIFE. But since he entertained that foolishness, then she should be satisfied by him stating that he does SUPPORT his kids, not only by being there as many fathers who pay child support are not. He never said whether he paid child support and I am glad he refrained from answering that because again....ITS NUNNA YO BIZNESS!!!! I am personally offended that you could find some right to her statements as a black man. I assume you are a black man from other posts you've made, but I could be wrong. But I am not surprised because it has become apparent that you like going against right just for the sake of having something to say that will PISS everyone off. That's just as sick as a doctor having such a twisted mindstate. Sad minds, think alike.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-17T12:40:47-06:00

ID

72329

Comment

queen601 wrote - "Of course you'd like to play devil's advocate for the doctor....birds of a feather." that was pretty moronic of you to say. and I thought you was a queen?

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T12:47:28-06:00

ID

72330

Comment

...queen601 wrote - You can not sugar coat the fact that she dug into his personal life with no discretion. " um..the C-L wrote about him and his kids...i.e- personal life. I doubt she knew he had kids until she read that. I sure didn't. ...queen601 wrote - "IT IS NOT HER BUSINESS NOR IS IT YOURS WHAT THAT MAN DOES IN HIS PERSONAL LIFE." um...didn't he say he was a rapper? aren't rappers/entertainers subject to public scrutiny whether good or bad? aren't rappers considered public figures too? he brought those questions on himself. He's considered by some to be a mentor right? then what's wrong with the public trying to find out whose mentoring their kids? don't be stupid for the sake of being stupid now.. ....queen con't - "But since he entertained that foolishness, then she should be satisfied by him stating that he does SUPPORT his kids, not only by being there as many fathers who pay child support are not. He never said whether he paid child support and I am glad he refrained from answering that because again....ITS NUNNA YO BIZNESS!!!!" Personally I could give a shazz about how he take care of his kids, just get it done. but some people(like doc) want to make sure people like him aren't covering up their own deadbeat-dadness to save face by helping other kids. people do it all the time. ...queen cn't - "I am personally offended that you could find some right to her statements as a black man. I assume you are a black man from other posts you've made, but I could be wrong." was that a personal attack? I'm not impressed. ...queen con't - "But I am not surprised because it has become apparent that you like going against right just for the sake of having something to say that will PISS everyone off. That's just as sick as a doctor having such a twisted mindstate. Sad minds, think alike." this comment just reeks of ignorance. Sorry you feel that way.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T13:02:44-06:00

ID

72331

Comment

Queen, JSU can't possibly be one of us. We have no nuts that nutty. And he had the nerves to condenm and call someone else fruity on another post within this group. That person he tried to condemn likely stands head and shoulders above him in every regard, including being man enough to reveal his true identity. Do like me Queen and refuse to waste your time with such a nut.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T13:15:44-06:00

ID

72332

Comment

I agree with Dr. Matthias that the breakdown of the family in America is a problem that is RELATED (not the CAUSE of) to crime and poverty. Where she and other right wing ideologues go wrong is making an invalid assumption of cause and effect. We have all heard the phrase "no finance = no romance". The research shows that there is much less chance of a marriage occurring (or working out if it does occur) when there are low education levels and poverty for one or both parents. Marriage rates and employment prospects are certainly damaged by high rates of incarceration. There is a solution besides just going to church (the solution she alludes to). We know that an increased investment in early childhood education makes a difference. We know that smaller class sizes, especially in the first three grades, makes a big positive difference. Education can play a major role in breaking the cycle of poverty, family breakdown (increased educational level is positively correlated with marriage) and crime. Investments in alternatives to incarceration for non-violent offenders would help stem the drain on eligible black males from the community. THAT might even SAVE money because locking more people up for longer periods of time is VERY expensive for Dr. Matthias and the rest of us. AND it is not solving crime as far as I can tell. We KNOW this, but the Dr. Matthias's of this society would rather blame the poor than invest in solutions known to make a difference. Surely, poor people can improve their behavior. Surely this society can improve its behavior. Personal attacks are the realm of simple minds. As Emerson said, "A foolish simplicity is the hobgoblin of small minds".

Author

FreeClif

Date

2006-05-17T13:22:07-06:00

ID

72333

Comment

I know I'm late to this discussion (though I have been reading it for a a while now), but I HAVE to say something here: Queen601 (and other to the same effect) wrote: He never said whether he paid child support and I am glad he refrained from answering that because again....ITS NUNNA YO BIZNESS!!!! If it's no one else's business, I'll get right on that law suit calling for the various states to stop their respective child support enforcement. Seems to me that the fact that there are state and federal laws and regulations regarding the public enforcement and collection of child support means it MOST CERTAINLY IS OUR BUSINESS. Thank you and have a pleasant tomorrow.

Author

Rex

Date

2006-05-17T13:41:19-06:00

ID

72334

Comment

Ouch! Why is it that black people are the only race of people who are quick to disown another black with a difference of opinion? Are we supposed to monolithic in our thinking in order to be black? I'm not going to attack or defend either JSU or Doc's statements. Instead, I want to say that I respect Kamikaze for trying to promote a positive message in the black community, especially with the youth. Has he made mistakes in his life? Yes, and he admits such. I think it's sad anytime ANYONE, regardless or race, religion, wealth, etc, makes children outside of marriage. It is my personal and religious-based belief that it is best for a child to be raised in a committed, loving, two parent (full-time) family. That is the best circumstance in which a child can be raised to be a responsible, healthy adult. But it doesn't always happen like that, and that's a reality of today's society. I know nothing about how involved Kamikaze is with his kids, and frankly it's not really my business. It was pointed out in the C-L article that he mentors not only kids in the community but his own kids, and it ended up becoming a discussion point. But I think he should be commended for acknowledging and trying to be a part of both of his children's lives. Lord knows there are enough deadbeat dads in the world, white and black, who won't even acknowledge their outside kids, let alone spend time and money on them. Kamikaze doesn't appear to be one of those people, and he should be given credit as a man for taking some accountability and trying to be a better role model, particularly when he realized his boy was headed for trouble. Again, it would be great if Kamikaze could have been married to at least one of these ladies and been a full-time father to at least one of these kids. But I'm not going to knock him for making the decision not to, as long as he is providing for them, trying to help raise them right, and committed not to make the same mistake again. Going back to the original point of this thread, I think the Rosa Parks family is out of line for trying to single out one particular individual as not being good enough to be buried next to her. Heck, there may be a child molester buried in the same ground, and they would never know. How can they make a such a value judgement on this man's life as if to say he is not worthy of being buried in the same area as Ms. Parks? And for the record, I'm black also.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-05-17T14:14:18-06:00

ID

72335

Comment

um...didn't he say he was a rapper? aren't rappers/entertainers subject to public scrutiny whether good or bad? aren't rappers considered public figures too? he brought those questions on himself. He's considered by some to be a mentor right? then what's wrong with the public trying to find out whose mentoring their kids? don't be stupid for the sake of being stupid now.. None of this has anything to do with this man being a rapper. This is about her questioning him as a man, a father and as a human being. But I am not going to engage any more with you, you won't get your jollies off me today! Why don't you go over to that other site and discuss this outrageous idea with others like yourself. Those who thrive on contributing to the problem and have no intent on resolving it.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-17T14:17:51-06:00

ID

72336

Comment

Rex, I don't agree with your statement. And if that law that you speak of is so, then it should be amended. What this man does as a profession does not give us a reason to know if he supports his child or pays child support and in relation to an article that was meant in spirit to offer support to a man who has been supporting the community for some time now. You people have turned all the good he does and all the crap he hears from naysayers and all the time and effort he has placed into this city and into this state SOLELY and turned it into a personal attack on his character. Not commending him for at the very least having the nerve and the guts to do what no one on here has done. And for that I still say it ain't yo business. If this thing was about trying to get with him one on one to determine if your issues with him were warranted, then so be it. But the good doctor up there is in here defaming that man who to those of us who live how he lives see him as a LEADER. She (and you - I suppose) are trying to convince the rest of Jackson that this man is unworthy based on the fact that he has children who do not live in his home. THAT IS RIDICULOUSLY EMBARASSING! This man has been chastised for once being a man who made decisions that may not have been right, but he has learned from them and grown from them. I mean to think that one has to be perfect to lead is crazy. How can one lead without knowing what they are leading people away from. How many preachers were born preachers? How many lawyers never committed a crime of some sort? I just don't get it. There is no one living who doesn't fall to sin. If so, then we have a heavenly body on earth and I believe the Christians here say that that is not possible, unless Jesus has returned and if he has he surely didn't change his name to REX or Dr. whatever her name is.

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-17T14:32:23-06:00

ID

72337

Comment

To say Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton are spineless boys is a nutty comment to me. Only a nutty, clueless and likely spineless person would say that. I have no likeness, kinship, affinity, or consanguinity with a person who can say that with a straight face. Ejeff, spare me the Elders and Hamblin crap. I'm not impressed at all. Do you know what a fallacy is? Juxtapose that word with your first paragraph.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T14:39:52-06:00

ID

72338

Comment

Regarding the laws on child support and all other laws. 1. We are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. 2. No man has to answer questions to any Joe Blow off the street about the amount and frequency of his child support when he has not been charged with ANY crime. In case you people don't know the law, failure to pay child support is a crime whether one is married to the mother or not. 3. If someone is wanted for lack of paying child support then it IS a matter of public record. If not, ITS NONE OF YA'LL'S BUSINESS!!!

Author

FreeClif

Date

2006-05-17T14:51:10-06:00

ID

72339

Comment

There is so much fretting about the morality of poor people (code = black). Is it moral that we won't properly fund early education but we are spending billions dropping bombs that have so far killed over $25,000 Iraqi civilians who never did anything to us. Where is the outrage at this immorality rather than trying to attack someone because of their children. This juxtaposition seems evil.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2006-05-17T15:01:47-06:00

ID

72340

Comment

User Agreement Alert! Queen601: Rex, {snip}...You people have turned all the good he does and all the crap he hears from naysayers and all the time and effort he has placed into this city and into this state SOLELY and turned it into a personal attack on his character. ...{snip}... But the good doctor up there is in here defaming that man ...She (and you - I suppose) are trying to convince the rest of Jackson that this man is unworthy based on the fact that he has children who do not live in his home. NOWHERE did I say anything about Kamikaze’s character. NOWERE did I attack Kamikaze based on his personal situation or on his profession or on his attempt at serving as a role model and mentor. NOWEHERE have I tried to convince Jackson, or you or anyone else about Kamikaze's unworthiness. Show me where I did or said any of the things of which you accuse me! Find it. Had I accused you or any of the preferred clientele around here of baseless and unwarranted statements, I would have been warned, censured, and/or banned. But since the gist of your posts agrees with the preferred clientele, not a word will be said. As for this: What this man does as a profession does not give us a reason to know if he supports his child or pays child support ... I never said his profession gives use a reason to know. I said the law exists, the government enforces it, and the government collects child support. As a taxpayer, anything the government does or is involved in IS my business. If child support is not paid, it is my business since my tax dollars go into enforcing child support payments. If they are not paid, it is my business because my tax dollars are used to prosecute and collect child support. You may not like it but it is there. I don't care how much he pays (so long as it is a reasonable amount necessary for the financial needs of his children), but it is my business through the government agencies as to whether all fathers and mothers owing child support PAY child support.

Author

Rex

Date

2006-05-17T15:06:47-06:00

ID

72341

Comment

ray, personal attacks are also supposedly against the User Agreement. But ..yeah right. You know the rest.

Author

Rex

Date

2006-05-17T15:10:31-06:00

ID

72342

Comment

Ejeff, spare me the Elders and Hamblin crap. I'm not impressed at all. Do you know what a fallacy is? Juxtapose that word with your first paragraph. A fallacy is a component of an argument that is demonstrably flawed in its logic or form, thus rendering the argument invalid (except in the case of begging the question) in whole. In logical arguments, fallacies are either formal or informal. Because the validity of a deductive argument depends on its form, a formal fallacy (or logical fallacy) is a deductive argument that has an invalid form, whereas an informal fallacy is any other invalid mode of reasoning whose flaw is not in the form of the argument. Cool, if you will spare me the Eric Dyson/Cornel West crap, Ray. I'm not impressed with that either. All I'm saying is that to suggest because JSU has a difference of opinion with you and Queen601 that he couldn't possibly be "one of us" is pure BULLSH!T. Just because he may be wrong doesn't make him any less black than you or I.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-05-17T15:10:47-06:00

ID

72343

Comment

I thought I walked the line and criticized behavior, not the person. Maybe I failed. If so, my apology to JSU and all. I will certainly resist any further temptations to engage in such behavior. Thanks Rex.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T15:15:42-06:00

ID

72344

Comment

queen, shut up. please. your comments are increasingly ignorant and bothersome. Nobody's attacking his character or lack of it. go read all the trash you posted then go print it and BURN..IT. you're full of assumptions about me and my statements. deal with what I actually said instead of making up sh!t as you go. you think other media outlets won't take a stab at Kamikaze's personal life? if not, you're an old fool just like old ray is shaping up to be in my eyes. the doc just asked him a question that, in turn, he shot off the handle in disgust like he's guilty of being a deadbeat. A simple "I take care of mine" was all he needed to squash her. Now if whoever snatched down the article could kindly put it back up, you'd see that it makes no mention of him taking care of his own kids, but only that he has two of them by different women. Only in here did he clean it up(with attitude). If I'm wrong prove me right and I'll shut up. I'm not above correction but I am above ignorance, that which you and Ray seem to wallow in. AND if you continue to "think" Kamikaze is not a public figure(journalist/rapper/community activist) then you are awash with boo boo for brains. If he doesn't want that kind of attention(scrutiny) then he's in the wrong business. It's similar to what Frank Melton is doing.. "Stay out of my personal business!!" is the sound...hear it? well, sir, can't do that if you are involved with the public's kids. Some of us are concerned if a pedofile might be teaching our kids how to do "push ups" on the low..lol I also guess that asking Frank Melton about his dealings in Texas is "personal business" too and all of you who are digging for something on him in that regard need to back off too, right? and don't play that "You must not be black" card with me you morons. I'm past all the color line b.s. that's why Mississippi is still divided on race relations. ignorant statments like that.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T15:16:18-06:00

ID

72345

Comment

JSU is trolling. Ray and Queen are rightly annoyed, and that's exactly the effect JSU is going for. I fell for it in the lesbigay thread; they're falling for it in this one. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-17T15:17:26-06:00

ID

72346

Comment

Ejeff that is not what I did but it's ok for you to think so if that pleases you.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T15:18:54-06:00

ID

72347

Comment

Uh, okay, kind of hard to complain that JSU is facing unfair personal attacks after that little missive. I can see ejeff backing away slowly now, and I don't really blame him, because he's been played. This isn't the first thread where you've pulled this, JSU. You really need to shape up and knock off the right-wing trolling. I don't know who you're trying to impress. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-05-17T15:20:07-06:00

ID

72348

Comment

...Ray wrote -"I thought I walked the line and criticized behavior, not the person. " No. you've been hating on me since I stumped you the other day.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T15:22:26-06:00

ID

72349

Comment

Watch me follow my own advice.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T15:24:43-06:00

ID

72350

Comment

Tom H.-- JSU is trolling. Ray and Queen are rightly annoyed, and that's exactly the effect JSU is going for. Oh, right. Because someone else is trolling, Queen601 has the right to lie about me with impunity? OK. Sorry! My mistake! Carry on misrepresenting me!

Author

Rex

Date

2006-05-17T15:25:57-06:00

ID

72351

Comment

...Tom Head -" JSU is trolling. Ray and Queen are rightly annoyed, and that's exactly the effect JSU is going for. You know me? I didn't think so. and trolling is not what I'm doing. I'm in conversation. Just because they are gettting upset and annoyed is not my problem. I'm mature in my approach. You're portray a smart guy, you should be able to see that. what's really annoying is when a difference of opinion strikes you, it hurts and you resort to calling people trolls..that's annoying. that's trolling.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T15:26:41-06:00

ID

72352

Comment

Some American attitudes of entitlement..... smh From other People/Countrys Oil to other peoples personal lives..Americans arrogance knows no boundarys, but according to statistics we are becoming less and less educated here when in comparison to other developed countrys.

Author

JAC

Date

2006-05-17T15:26:55-06:00

ID

72353

Comment

Ray wrote - "Watch me follow my own advice." cool.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T15:28:29-06:00

ID

72354

Comment

If child support is not paid, it is my business since my tax dollars go into enforcing child support payments. WHO SAID CHILD SUPPORT IS NOT PAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU HAVE KIDS? ARE YOU PAYING CHILD SUPPORT? ARE YOU MARRIED? DO YOU CHEAT ON YOUR WIFE? EVER SMOKED A DUBIE? EVERY HAD SEX WITH A MAN? EVER DID A THREESOME? IS YOUR MOTHER A CRACKHEAD? ARE YOUR CHILDREN RIDING THE SHORT BUS TO SCHOOL? DID YOU VOTE FOR BUSH? ARE YOU A RACIST? DO YOU WATCH AMERICAN IDOL??????????????????????????/ All of this is just as ridiculous as those questions up there and you all folk professing perfection may one day have to reap your words against this man and you just might find yourself in a situation as such. God forbid. And most of the things that you put in your post were directed at the other fella who spits out similar statements at you so there is no need for me to look and find anything. I've said what I have to say to you and the rest is up to you! And good evening!

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-17T15:53:40-06:00

ID

72355

Comment

I forgot to thank you Ejeff for the rough comparison to West and Dyson. Both has exceptional scholarship, love, and committment to all. You don't have to, in turn, tell me anything about Hamblin and Elders I know their backgrounds and psyche too well.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-17T15:54:36-06:00

ID

72356

Comment

Queen, I never professed perfection. I never claimed to be better than or holier than anyone on this board or mentioned in this discussion. I stated a simple fact. The public is involved in the enforcement and collection of child support. Ergo, it is the public's (i.e., MY) business as to whether someone with children is paying child support. I never even claimed Kamikaze ISN’T paying child support. I simply corrected your statement that it was no one's business. It is, by virtue of law, the public’s business. As for the comparison with "personal" questions, it is the public's business on any legally regulated, outlawed, or controlled issue (see the whole crime stats debate-- duhh). As for the issues you mentioned that are not regulated or outlawed (ARE YOUR CHILDREN RIDING THE SHORT BUS TO SCHOOL? DID YOU VOTE FOR BUSH? ARE YOU A RACIST? DO YOU WATCH AMERICAN IDOL?): You are right. Those are no one's business. And thank you for misrepresenting me without receiving a warning once again.

Author

Rex

Date

2006-05-17T16:06:31-06:00

ID

72357

Comment

Look Rex. I apologize for misrepresenting you. And thank you for joining in on this conversation with such informative statements. We didn't have that before. Greatly appreciated. Can you move on now? I can....watch!

Author

Queen601

Date

2006-05-17T16:18:28-06:00

ID

72358

Comment

the good thing about this "debate" is that JESUS has a ticket for all of us to ride the Heaven Bus. ALLL ABOARD!!

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T16:19:05-06:00

ID

72359

Comment

Asking Kamikaze about whether he is paying child support and what amount shows an arrogant presumption. That would be like me asking Bush at a press conference if he is still snorting crack. Even though you could use the assinine reasoning that it is our business if someone is breaking the law since "the public is involved in the enforcement and collection" of lawbreakers it would still be STUPID and UNFAIR to Mr. Bush since he has not been arrested or convicted of said offense!

Author

FreeClif

Date

2006-05-17T16:20:10-06:00

ID

72360

Comment

Rex, don't watse your keystrokes on THAT one. you've made solid points. I can see them if nobody else can.

Author

JSU

Date

2006-05-17T16:20:36-06:00

ID

72361

Comment

WHIT, did I ask Kamikaze if he paid child support? I don't believe I did. However, I don’t think it would be arrogant presumption to do so any more than it was arrogant presumption to ask candidate and later President Bush about his drinking and drug problems. The asinine question "still smoking" would be improper and I therefore would never ask Kamikaze if he were "still refusing to pay child support." But as someone holding himself out it the press as a role model and mentor I think it would be the media's duty to ask about the care and support of his children, just as it was the media's duty to ask candidate and later president Bush, and President Clinton, et al., ad infinitum about their ...indiscretions.

Author

Rex

Date

2006-05-17T17:00:44-06:00

ID

72362

Comment

Played how, TH? I don't keep up with JSU's commentary on every single thread on this site, and in fact I really kinda disagreed with him on some of his points, especially the Ted Nugent argument (where I agree with Ray). I took issue with the questioning of his color because he dared to play devil's advocate with Dr. Matthias' rather 'ignorant' comments. I hear enough of that crap in the criticism about Bill Cosby, who I happen to admire for trying to be honest with our people about the areas we need to work on as well as fighting racism. And I think Cosby, who has been charged with infidelity, can still be considered a role model as much as Kamikaze in terms of trying to be a positive influence in spite of personal mistakes. And I think he has a much love for black people as Dr. West or Dyson, who is one of the main ones criticizing him for trying to get poor black people to act like PARENTS. And Ray, I don't happen to care for Elder, never listened to Hamblin, and while I consider myself a moderate, I'm not into the Republican spin b.s.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-05-17T17:06:32-06:00

ID

72363

Comment

And before someone jumps on me over that last point, people of all races and backgrounds could stand to learn to be better PARENTS. But because we as a race are behind in so many socioeconomic indicators in America due to racism, discrimination, poverty and miseducation, he is asking us to look at ourselves honestly and see if there are things we are not doing in our own homes that could help to fix our community while we also tackle racism.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2006-05-17T17:20:14-06:00

ID

72364

Comment

I am not angry. I am full of sorrow and sadness for all the poor children (black, white, Hispanic) I meet. The children I meet are marvelous--some are shy, some are audacious, some are non-verbal, some are afraid, some are autistic, some are neglected, some are abused, most are avoid of warmth, kindness, and intellectual stimulation. These children are deprived of neurological stimulation from birth. They are not rocked, coo-ed to, sung to, spoken to, played with, touched, etc. No wonder they lag into kindergarden. Everyone loves "preschool." I'm not "against" preschool. However, I'm convinced that the skills acquired in "preschool" are easily acquired by the way of any loving, giving parent. Read to your child, love your child, touch your child, stimulate your child. I believe that if a child is enrolled in a government sponsored program, that the primary care giver (99% of the time the mother) should be "forced" to go to school with the child if she is not working, in order to gain parenting skills. I'd love to force the same of non-working fathers. I refer all of your readers to USA TODAY'S "Life" article about Bill Cosby and his thorough but bothersome understanding of "underclass" culture. HDMatthias, MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-17T20:41:06-06:00

ID

72365

Comment

**I believe that if a child is enrolled in a government sponsored program, that the primary care giver (99% of the time the mother) should be "forced" to go to school with the child if she is not working, in order to gain parenting skills. I'd love to force the same of non-working fathers.** <-- HDMatthias MD HD, there are parents of children enrolled in perhaps every child care facility in the state and beyond who need parenting skills of one kind or another which, BTW, encompass a whole plethora of capabilities, proficiencies and competencies I'm not so sure any parent already possesses, not even well-educated Libertarian physicians! Are you suggesting that only parents of children in government sponsored programs need it? If so, you are surely and sorely mistaken, as there are well-educated, affluent, and intelligent women--black and white--who give birth and don't have a clue (let alone all the skills) as to how to do everything required. You seem to suggest that only mothers of children enrolled in 'government sponsored programs' need help in acquiring those skills. And while I'm at it, let me say as plainly as I can: this is America--warts and all--and it's 2006 in the year of our Lord...and forcing people to do something is not what makes this country great and its promises real. George W Bush hasn't learned that he can't force his will and his beliefs on the Iraqis or the French or the Palestinians or the Pakistanis. Of late, he can't impose his will on his own Republican diehard comrades. And thus, you can't force parents to do what you *think* is best for them. They would resent it much as you would somebody writing you on this blog admonishing you that your often vitriolic utterances are harmful to your children and you should thus be forced to give them up (the children, that is, but giving up the vitriolic utterances would help in more than one way!) Your hyperbolic and unhealthy fixation on 'forcing' people to do something has even extended to the fathers of the children you have crowed about loving, caring for, feeling sorry for, even treating...these *poor children* as you referred to them. Did you care so much for them or lose enough sleep pitying their plight that you treated them for free, or were you paid? Were you so offended by their condition that you cared enough to offer to help an individual child or family outside of your medical practice? My own personal observations and first-hand knowledge leads me to conclude, ironically, that the same people who have a particular disdain for anything benefitting low-incomed people are usually the same ones who have no problem personally benefitting from the *government sponsored programs* that are designed to help the *poor children*! You--and they--can't have it both ways.

Author

Kacy

Date

2006-05-17T23:19:12-06:00

ID

72366

Comment

Kacy: The "government" (Medicaid) pays me around $42 an hour to give anesthesia to a young child or mother (non obstetrical). It is barely worth my time and expenses vis-a-vis malpractice. My plumber make twice this amount on the weekends. I give anesthesia as a "charitible gift" to these patients, and in deference to the patients' surgeons. I could not make a living doing nothing other than Medicaid anesthesia unless I was subsidized at the Univeristy Hospital, etc. Anyone believing physicians are getting "ricH" from goverment programs such as Medicaid are sorely misled. Medicaid pays me approximately 10% of my usual fee. Sincerely, HDMatthias, MD

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-05-18T00:09:21-06:00

ID

72367

Comment

**...The "government" (Medicaid) pays me around $42 an hour to give anesthesia to a young child or mother (non obstetrical). It is barely worth my time and expenses vis-a-vis malpractice. My plumber make twice this amount on the weekends...I give anesthesia as a "charitible gift" to these patients, and in deference to the patients' surgeons. I could not make a living doing nothing other than Medicaid anesthesia unless I was subsidized at the Univeristy Hospital, etc.** <--HDMatthias, MD I know of families in Hinds County in which the mother and father both work full time at menial jobs, barely making $13/hour COMBINED. They often have children. They work hard every day, play by the rules, have never been on the wrong side of the law, go to church on Sundays, and every once in a great while they'll 'splurge' by taking the kids to MickeyD's. They even find time to volunteer in some of the local *government programs*, as you call them, because they feel blessed to be working, even though they can barely make ends meet, and they want to help others through their volunteer work. These are the heroes of our society, and yet some would have the audacity to try to *force* them to do something else. In the name of God, what more can they do? The get up in the morning and go to work, not really satisfied with the meager pay but grateful that it's better than nothing and thankful that they are even able to do what they can. And you, on the other hand, complain of being paid a PALTRY $42/hour which is only 10% of your *usual fee*? Excuse me while I go and cry over your poor, pathetic situation, Doc! BTW, just so you'll know, I wasn't even referring to Medicaid.

Author

Kacy

Date

2006-05-18T00:55:50-06:00

ID

72368

Comment

Kacy, let me say I love you. You're brillant. You have more sense than any doctor or lawyer I know. And you obviously know something about evils of arrogance and condescension. If I could send you lunch money through the computer I would.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-05-18T08:43:56-06:00

ID

72369

Comment

I'm back ya'll, and i see i missed a whole bunch. Last comments by Kacy were excellent, some people are biased by their own blessings and forget how fortunate they are in comparison to others. I just want to point out a few things to JSU, and I'll be done commenting on this thread. I'm not trying to rekindle this debate just point out a few things to those that don't like to read everything posted on the thread. JSU you wrote" "the doc just asked him a question that, in turn, he shot off the handle in disgust like he's guilty of being a deadbeat. A simple "I take care of mine" was all he needed to squash her. Now if whoever snatched down the article could kindly put it back up, you'd see that it makes no mention of him taking care of his own kids but only that he has two of them by different women. Only in here did he clean it up(with attitude). If I'm wrong prove me right and I'll shut up." The Doc previously wrote: "Kamikaze: These are the children you should talk to. I also remind you that you have two children by two different women who do not appear to be your wives. You should spend all your time with these children. However, this must be difficult, because they live in distant towns. You should spend all your time with your children, and stop all this mentoring nonsense with other men's and women's children. Hie thee to your home" So yes, it does mention him taking care of his kids. You just have to read thoroughly. Kamikaze previously wrote: "I EVEN CUT BACK ON MY AFTERNOON SCHEDULE THIS YEAR TO BE AT HOME WHEN HE ARRIVES TO INTERACT WITH HIM. BUT NONE OF THOSE THANGS ARE YOUR BUSINESS QUITE FRANKLY! BTW MY CHILDREN ARE TAKEN CARE OF NOT BECAUSE THE STATE TELLS ME TO BUT BECAUSE IM DOING WHAT A GODDAMN MAN IS SUPPOSED TO DO." He states His are taken care of in a polite way, so there. but again it is none of our business.

Author

jan2006

Date

2006-05-18T10:05:47-06:00

ID

72370

Comment

LOL!!! thanks jan..these detractors obviously read what THEY want to read. See what THEY want to see. and thus they believe what THEY want to believe!!!!

Author

trusip

Date

2006-05-18T10:30:41-06:00

ID

72371

Comment

***Kacy, let me say I love you. You're brillant. You have more sense than any doctor or lawyer I know. And you obviously know something about evils of arrogance and condescension. If I could send you lunch money through the computer I would.*** <---Ray Carter Thanks, Ray. You're too kind. The Doc's comments were beginning to chap my a$$, and I felt she needed a dose of reality. You and I both know that even if a doctor 'donates' his/her services or waives a part of his/her fee, they ain't losing anything because they can write it off. And I'd venture to say that even at $42/hour from Medicaid, she wouldn't do it if she were losing money! If she's doing it as a charitable deed, why does she feel the need to toot it? BTW, a lot of us owe you a lotta lunches!

Author

Kacy

Date

2006-05-20T22:11:14-06:00