Jackson Free Press

JACKSON, Mississippi (AP) -- Former Ku Klux Klan Imperial Wizard Samuel H. Bowers, who was serving a life sentence for the 1966 bombing death of a civil rights leader, died Sunday in a state penitentiary, officials said. He was 82.

He died of cardiopulmonary arrest, said Mississippi Department of Corrections spokeswoman Tara Booth.

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Previous Comments

ID

89630

Comment

CNN or AP? Hey...credit where credit is due. That's all we ask for, rico. ;-)

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2006-11-05T22:50:26-06:00

ID

89631

Comment

Well, both of 'em, actually... But they said it happened at 11:30 this morning- where've you guys been- still out in California or something???

Author

Rico

Date

2006-11-05T22:56:27-06:00

ID

89632

Comment

He cheated justice. a couple of years in jail for murder. He got to live a full life and then went to the big house. sickening.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-05T23:34:57-06:00

ID

89633

Comment

He had more time than his victims, that's for sure.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-11-05T23:45:50-06:00

ID

89634

Comment

Actually, I've been watching football for most of the day (once I got my fix of This Week :-) I did see the news about Bowers on a WJTV scroll during the Broncos game.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2006-11-06T00:34:22-06:00

ID

89635

Comment

Hell needed a Klansman. I think this is the most depressing part of these civil rights cases, to me--the culprits finally get locked up, generations after they've committed their crimes, and then they're on underground probation after a few years. But then they used to ask what the point of Nuremberg was, since so many others were also complicit and would never be punished, and that what the accused did was too severe for any punishment to fit. And what those defending Nuremberg said was that the important part was not that the individuals were prosecuted, but that by prosecuting the individuals the regimes--the actions--received the kind of concrete public condemnation that only a conviction and sentence could bring. So Sam Bowers definitely got off easy. For all intents and purposes, he got away with murder. But at least he got to see--and, more importantly, we got to see--that, before he died, society said that the murders he committed were important enough to prosecute, important enough to punish a man for. That's not much, but it's an improvement over the alternative. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T00:48:56-06:00

ID

89636

Comment

My problem with Nuremberg is that is was never applied to the Japs and the Russians got away clean with their mass murders in Eastern Europe. As for Bowers, to me its a great example of why capital punishment should be applied. No feeling of him cheating the justice system even if at age 80 he is executed.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-06T00:58:42-06:00

ID

89637

Comment

Kingfish writes: My problem with Nuremberg is that is was never applied to the [Japanese] Uhm, ever heard of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East? There were more Japanese executions on war crimes charges than there were German executions, though the highest-ranking folks were spared. and the Russians got away clean with their mass murders in Eastern Europe. Sadly, the Russians got away clean with a lot of things. That's one of the perks of being a superpower. As for Bowers, to me its a great example of why capital punishment should be applied. While I wouldn't shed any tears if they executed the likes of Sam Bowers, the truth is that he would have been able to buy so much time on appeals that he would have died of natural causes anyway--and if we eliminated the appeals process, then lots of innocent people would end up executed. (The failure/posthumous exoneration rate is already unacceptably high.) We can't just remove appeals for Bowers and then put them seamlessly back into place for everybody else. The rule of law doesn't work that way. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T01:09:10-06:00

ID

89638

Comment

Did we make the Japs go tour Nanking like we did Auschwitz and other concentration camps? We let the upper leadership of Japan off of the hook for the most part compared to Germany. I am aware of that tribunal but the fact remains we didn't prosecute war crimes at the same level as we did Germany. as for Bowers, there is something to be said for his being sentenced to death and living with the fear that the state will execute him before he dies of old age.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-06T01:15:08-06:00

ID

89639

Comment

Kingfish writes: Did we make the [Japanese] go tour Nanking like we did Auschwitz and other concentration camps? The government of China executed 149 Japanese officials connected to various atrocities, including Nanking. Compare this to the 11 German officials executed as a result of the Nuremberg trials. (And what's with this "the Japs" business? It's 2006, for crying out loud. Unless you fought in the war yourself, they were the Japanese.) We let the upper leadership of Japan off of the hook for the most part compared to Germany. Executing the emperor of Japan would not have been conducive to postwar stability, which was a concern. Looking at how exemplary Japan is today, I think the decision to isolate--but not kill--Hirohito was a wise one. Besides, we never nuked Germany; we had a certain amount to apologize to Japanese civilians about in the wake of that. You don't test the most dangerous weapon ever created, wipe out six-figure civilian casualties and reduce two major cities to rubble and ash, and then decide what the hell, may as well hang the emperor while we're at it. Besides, the Japanese atrocities, while horrific, pale in comparison to the Holocaust. as for Bowers, there is something to be said for his being sentenced to death and living with the fear that the state will execute him before he dies of old age. Something, but not very much. There's not really anything we can do to a man who has gotten away with murder until he has reached life expectancy; he has already laughed justice in the face, and the best we can do is condemn his crimes and beg forgiveness for not prosecuting the cases sooner. Because the state of Mississippi essentially deputized Bowers, Beckwith, Killen, and so forth by their refusal to prosecute--and it is really the state of Mississippi that needs to be tried and convicted, which is what these trials make some feeble attempt to approximate. A better solution, I think, would be a radical anti-apartheid program. Make Jackson State the flagship of the state university system, and place Ole Miss' medical, law, and architecture schools under its authority (since all three are in Jackson anyway). Change the damn flag. Expand Medicaid and other social services. Increase the number of DHS social workers by a dramatic number. Require suburban municipal governments to pay a percentage of their budget to Jackson as reparation for white flight. Stop glorifying Eastland, Barnett, and the other segregation-era white supremacists whose names adorn our landmarks. That would be constructive justice. Prosecuting old men doesn't atone for the sins of our state. The changes must be more radical and more fundamental than that, and until our state priorities, at least, are in that ballpark, these trials of old men don't mean much in practical terms because state government still holds segregationist values. Peace, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T03:57:17-06:00

ID

89640

Comment

I'm sure one get really be scooped by a report of a death—but we'll take our hits. ;-D Heard about it yesterday, but my access at home was going in and out so didn't get it posted. Figured y'all would hear about it somehow. There are certain stories Mississippi doesn't need us for—others, well. Don't take it personally that I'm moving your joke out of the headline—I want to "promote" this to Noise, and a lot of "outsiders" won't get your joke.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T12:18:35-06:00

ID

89641

Comment

Have to run to bonsai for some good food Tom but Hirohito was controlled by their military leaders to a large degree. After a certain time, he had little control over there. He was the head of the Shinto religon but Tojo and the warlords ran Japan in the 30's and 40's.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-06T12:45:34-06:00

ID

89642

Comment

Good point, Tom. He got to see that his cause lost. Or is in the process of losing. That's good.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T12:57:41-06:00

ID

89643

Comment

Wow. He had a heart. Imagine that.

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2006-11-06T13:44:51-06:00

ID

89644

Comment

No offense, but if y'all want to debate Japanese war crimes tribunals--and I find the subject fascinating--then somebody should go start a thread on that.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2006-11-06T14:38:59-06:00

ID

89645

Comment

Was somebody debating Japanese war crimes tribunals? I thought we were talking about European cheeses. I suppose this is why I shouldn't let myself drink coffee. And Donna, agreed--thanks, BTW, for the subtle nudge back on topic!--that it is worthwhile to at least show these people that we're not going to ignore their crimes anymore. I just wish that we could also--both/and, not either/or--radically transform the culture in a way that begins to make up for the past 40 years, during which it has been de facto legal to have murdered black civil rights activists. I really do believe that Mississippi deputized these killers by not prosecuting them, and that's an indictment of our entire state. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T14:50:17-06:00

ID

89646

Comment

Hell just got a lot stinkier.

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-06T15:16:48-06:00

ID

89647

Comment

Tom Head wrote: "also--both/and, not either/or" That is absolutely the most confusing use of connectors, ever. Just say what you want to say.

Author

E

Date

2006-11-06T16:21:56-06:00

ID

89648

Comment

Oh yea. My comment about Bowers dying. Good riddance. Another old fool dies alone in prison, serving delayed time for a murder he committed years and years ago. Bowers dying is another good sign of the older ideas about race in Mississippi dying, and serves to show that Mississippi, despite our past, is moving forward and can and does bring bastards like Bowers to justice. However, with Bowers dying, it makes one think how our Attorney Generals will make a name for themselves without crusty old murders to convict?

Author

E

Date

2006-11-06T16:31:08-06:00

ID

89649

Comment

Tom said... Make Jackson State the flagship of the state university system, and place Ole Miss' medical, law, and architecture schools under its authority (since all three are in Jackson anyway). Change the damn flag. Im with you on this one Tom... I have about had it with the offinsive flag and mascot. I think a simple black flag with a white or maybe pink dot in the middle would be fine. For a mascot, a horse or maybe a frog. The Ole Miss frogs has a good ring to it. I really think you need to go to the Grove during the next football game in oxford and push your ideas...

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-06T16:36:44-06:00

ID

89650

Comment

At least the man finally changed!!!!!!!!!!!............... From livor mortis to rigor mortis. He had plenty time to come to Jesus but apparently couldn't.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-06T16:53:29-06:00

ID

89651

Comment

Better yet, Colby, why don't you go to the cafeteria at Jackson State, stand up on a chair, and start proclaiming YOUR personal philosophy? I'd pay to see that. (Just try not to be too "offinsive".)

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-06T16:55:24-06:00

ID

89652

Comment

Scotty, You aren’t suggesting anything violent would happen are you? Its not kind to profile…

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-06T17:15:45-06:00

ID

89653

Comment

"Colby-y"... not suggesting anything would happen. Just saying I'd like to see what *would* actually happen. But there's no danger of that anyway, because snooty little bigots like you almost never have the balls to stand up in public with your bigotry. You're forced to hide behind a computer screen. I'll tell you this, though... you ever say anything like that in my presence and I'll make you regret it for the rest of your life.

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-06T17:18:38-06:00

ID

89654

Comment

Obviously I'm in a really gullible mood, because I didn't realize he was being sarcastic; I think a black flag with a pink dot in the middle would be a vast improvement over the Stars n' Bars and I've stared down well-scrubbed white boys and told them what I think before, so the Grove would be no big whoop. I do find it kind of amusing that colby thinks you're profiling re: the Jackson State cafeteria, but doesn't realize he said exactly the same thing about the Grove. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T17:23:33-06:00

ID

89655

Comment

Ole Sam Bowers is still bringing out the best in some of Mississippi's finest, even after his death. Let's try to calm the insults here. One thing I gotta say, though: F*ck the Grove. The Grove doesn't speak for Mississippi. Not these days.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T17:28:13-06:00

ID

89656

Comment

Yes, let calmness prevail. Just like justice did, finally, when old Bowers' check finally bounced. I do enjoy the Grove, though. :)

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-06T17:30:38-06:00

ID

89657

Comment

Kingfish: He cheated justice. a couple of years in jail for murder. He got to live a full life and then went to the big house. sickening. Actually, eight years for Dahmer. He also previously served some six years in association with the Goodman, Schwerner, and Chaney murders. BTW, I agree with your last thought. Tom: Make Jackson State the flagship of the state university system, and place Ole Miss' medical, law, and architecture schools under its authority (since all three are in Jackson anyway). Three things are wrong with this statement (two factual; the third, is my opinion). One, the architecture program belongs to Mississippi State and is where the fifth year architecture students complete their work toward their degrees. The first four years are spent in Starkville. Two, the law school is Mississippi College's, not Ole Miss's, and MC acquired the Jackson School of Law a little over thirty years ago. Ole Miss's law school is in Oxford. Three, it would be a major disservice to students if the programs changed to different universities because it would be a major PITA to get the programs reaccredited, etc., by all of the accrediting bodies and a lot of professions require that that degrees either need to be earned from accredited institutions or earned from programs accredited by subject specific accrediting bodies.

Author

Ex

Date

2006-11-06T17:32:10-06:00

ID

89658

Comment

OK, I'm not attacking the Grove itself. But attitudes like those espoused by Colby, yuck. And I've always LOVED saying "Go to hell, Ole Miss," so it's just a short hop. ;-) I'm not sure I agree with Tom's full statement, either, but Lord, the way Jackson State is treated by so many people. First, white folks push black folks of their schools, then make fun of their schools that result into eternity. Every now and then, we all ought to pause and remember who got us into this mess in the first place—and stop pointing fingers and get rid of all this ugly crap from the past, and all its symbols.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T17:38:13-06:00

ID

89659

Comment

Donna I don't even know what the grove is but I like your first comment about it.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-06T17:41:39-06:00

ID

89660

Comment

My stepfather-in-law teaches at Jackson State, and he's awesome, so I for one am giving it the benefit of the doubt. And in all seriousness, I know a lot of really great people who went there. The "making fun" of Jackson State comes primarily from people with attitudes like Colby's. Thankfully, their population is shrinking, as the subject of this thread makes clear.

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-06T17:42:44-06:00

ID

89661

Comment

Well, Ray, I don't hang in The Grove, either. But if it's a place where you couldn't stand up like a proud American and proclaim that it's time that we mothball racist symbols, then it certainly can go f*ck itself. There, I said it again.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T17:43:27-06:00

ID

89662

Comment

Yep, all we need in this state to shine is for racists to (1) die off or (2) become pariahs as those around them leave their asses in the red clay.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T17:44:59-06:00

ID

89663

Comment

Hello all! Just to point out, in a recent discussion (not here...), some people find George Washington offensive because of his ties to slavery. Wasn't the flag issue voted on recently? Couple million spent on it? Is anyone here going to talk about Senator Robert C. Byrd? He was actually a klansman in the 40's and was the leader of his chapter... and he's a sitting senator! http://byrd.senate.gov/

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-11-06T18:17:55-06:00

ID

89664

Comment

I love to talk about Byrd—he's a model of a reformed racist. Byrd is a sitting senator. He also repudiated his past and apologized for it. And to my knowledge, he is no longer excuses racist symbols, or running for office with them pinned to his lapel. Former Justice Hugo Black is another good example. Both show that some people are willing to change—and then have the balls to apologize and admit the mistakes of the past. Voters in Mississippi also said in the 1960s that we should close the public schools rather integrate them. See the problem with putting such things to a "popular" vote?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T18:30:42-06:00

ID

89665

Comment

I find George Washington's ties to slavery very offensive. The man was a racist and misogynist. I still respect him because in his day everybody of influence was a racist and misogynist, and he was less of both than average, but if someone walked up to me today with the views he held, I think I'd be entirely right in considering that person an obnoxious troglodyte. Obviously I wasn't thinking through the JSU thing; I typed that out of passion and in an awful hurry except on the matter of UMC, which I suspect could be transferred from Ole Miss to JSU without any loss of accreditation. When the publicly-funded Regents College program I graduated from in 1996 went private in 1998, there was no accreditation gap--the Middle States Association was right on top of the process. I look at JSU and I think of the South African school I almost did my Ph.D. with, Southwest University, which represented a merger of the white Potchefstroomse Universiteit vir Christelike Hoer Onderwys and the black University of Natal. If South Africa handled post-apartheid the way we handled post-Jim Crow, Potchefstroom University would still be Potchefstroom University, the University of Natal would still be the University of Natal, and the former would have a lot more funding and a lot more "prestige" and a much fuller range of programs. If we're going to take integration seriously, the first step is to fund JSU as a flagship public university and give it a range of programs so as to make it competitive with Ole Miss and MSU at all levels. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T18:33:54-06:00

ID

89666

Comment

From Wikipedia: In his latest autobiography, Byrd explained that he was a member because he "was sorely afflicted with tunnel vision — a jejune and immature outlook — seeing only what I wanted to see because I thought the Klan could provide an outlet for my talents and ambitions." [7] Byrd also said in 2005: "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times . . . and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened."[4] Now, recall that Haley Barbour couldn't find it in his southern-strategy-bound little heart to ask the damn CofCC to take his picture (of him with their members) off their Web site during his campaign for governor. And Lott and Cochran couldn't manage to vote for a symbolic apology for the country not doing more to halt the lynching of the past (even as their state had the most). That was last year. So when you complain about what outsiders think of us, look no further than chickensh!t dinosaurs who don't have the courage to do the right thing. So, yeah, let's talk about Robert Byrd.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T18:35:41-06:00

ID

89667

Comment

I love the comment about Justice Hugo Black, Klansman-turned-civil-rights-icon, to the effect of "he spent his early years in white robes scaring black people, then his later years in black robes scaring white people." I'm not a huge fan of Byrd, but the fact that he briefly belonged to the Klan in his youth is no more relevant than the fact that Pope Benedict XVI briefly belonged to the Hitler Youth. Besides, I notice the people who criticize Byrd for briefly belonging to the Klan 60 years ago, before he even got into politics, are the same people who never tolerated any criticism of Strom Thurmond for running for president as an incumbent senator on a white supremacist platform. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T18:37:28-06:00

ID

89668

Comment

Yeah, I'm not president of Byrd's fan club, either, but in this context it's really naive to try to trot him out as an example of what not to do on the topic of racism. Just goofy. More likely misinformed by too many talk radio. I love that quote about Black, too. When will people learn the meaning of the words "atonement" and "redemption." It's not so much about what you did back then anymore; it's about what you do now and whether you act like you do the same thing now that they did then. Anybody who doesn't have the moral center and gumption to repudiate the government's sins of the past do not believe in public office. *They* make us look so, so bad—like everytime Lott mutters something asinine about "flyover" country. If people are flying over and ignoring us, it's because political yucks like him are making us look like we're still living in the past. Mississippi's younger generations aren't going to buy that crap, though. Make my words. Things are changing.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T18:41:50-06:00

ID

89669

Comment

(All day, I've been humming strains from The Wizard of Oz—something about the "wicked wizard" being dead. Strange.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T18:43:30-06:00

ID

89670

Comment

See the problem with putting such things to a "popular" vote? Keep the electoral college.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-06T18:47:45-06:00

ID

89671

Comment

You're mixing apples and oranges again, Fish. I'm not saying things that should be voted on (like, er, presidential elections) shouldn't be a popular vote. The point is not little thing should be up to popular whim. Like, you know, basic constitutional rights. And if our elected officials don't have the good sense to take racist symbols off flags and public institutions, then they should be voted out of office. But, alas, we've needed more racist coots to go to the Big Eternal Klan Rally in the sky (or wherever) before some of our more stupid politicians have the decency to make the right decisions for all of our state's citizens. We're getting there, though. The southern strategy is starting to crack.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T19:20:56-06:00

ID

89672

Comment

actually I threw some lemons into that fruit cocktail as well.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-06T20:07:31-06:00

ID

89673

Comment

ladd, did you say "F*ck the Grove" earlier? And something else derogatory about "attitudes" at Ole Miss. I am an Ole Miss grad and I greatly resent the implications that your making. I also resent the fact that you so brazenly dismiss the Grove. Like anything in life, the Grove and Ole Miss are what you make of them, as is Ole Miss. Any college, espcially in the South has certain people who have bad attitudes and have no idea how to tailgate and reduce fun events like being in the Grove before a game to a drunken bad time. However, there are just as many good people who attend Ole Miss and go to the Grove and have never caused any trouble or espoused a bad attitude. To further enforce my point, I have always made a point of speaking to opposing fans in the Grove and wish them a safe trip home. I know that sounds cheesey, but I take my status as an Alumni very seriously and truly hope that people who travel very far, come to Ole Miss and the Grove and have a wonderful time. The people that drive me crazy, though, are people like yourself. People that have never experienced the Grove and found something to like there, or people who have had a terrible time because they came in with a bad attitude. Ole Miss has a rough past, a past filled with racial issues that no one should forget, however I feel that incredible strides have been made over many years to rectify many problems. Obviously, problems still exist and bad people still exist, however these problems exist at most schools. And no, I do not think the answer is bulldozing the past in order to forget it, nor do I like the idea of allowing our Legislature or a small select group of people to decide what our State flag should be. I had no feeling either way, I liked the old flag and I liked the new design, however when the vote was cast and people were still up in arms, it struck me that even democracy was not enough to satisfy dogmatic liberals. Do me and every Alumni of Ole Miss a favor, don't ever come to Oxford. The last thing Ole Miss, the Grove or Oxford needs is another high and mighty, sanctimonious, elitist-liberal.

Author

E

Date

2006-11-06T22:38:37-06:00

ID

89674

Comment

Oh, get over it. I was obviously responding to the racist remarks that were attributed to Grove types by someone above. Why don't you go attack the people who aren't representin' y'all so well if you don't like being painted this way. I think you're attacking the wrong messinger here. I know not all Ole Miss people think that way; some of my best friends went to Ole Miss, in fact. And I will come to Oxford whenever I want. I assume the National Guard have left, right? It's not still a sovereign state, I hear. By the way, the state flag is racist. If you don't want to be seen that way, then don't support a frackin' racist symbol. That part is simple, and all the other crap rings hollow until one can get past that hurdle.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T22:42:26-06:00

ID

89675

Comment

It is also delicious that, in your last line, you sing the clarion song of every racist throughout our history: If you don't like the way we do things here in the land of cotton, then leave (or don't visit). That B.S., uh, used to work. Doesn't anymore. Pass the word and save others some grief. Racists don't own the state, E. Not anymore. I was born here, I grew up here, I will die here. Meantime, I will speak my mind here. (Picture a Scarlet who doesn't romanticize slavery, and you get the picture.) And that 1990s-bullshit-elitist dog don't hunt no more. Haven't you heard? These days, it's en vogue to be smart, educated and outspoken in Mississippi. If you hadn't noticed, the alternative type of sanctimony ain't done a whole lot for us over the years. We're going to try something different for a while. Ain't that what rebels do?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-06T22:49:42-06:00

ID

89676

Comment

Here's what I love: This is a thread about the KKKorpse of KKKahuna Sam Bowers. Theoretically, these folks trolling aren't racists. Really, they're not. Yet of all the threads we've had on JFP--this is, what, #11,370?--it's a thread about Sam friggin' Bowers where they have to share their most-definitely-not-racist views. I have friends in Oxford, but you know what? I gave away my last Ole Miss sweatshirt last week. I did it with some regrets--I took three correspondence courses there, it's the only college or university in Mississippi where I took any undergraduate coursework--but when a guy who doesn't like football and has no real connection to the University of Mississippi wears an Ole Miss sweatshirt in Jackson, it sends a clear message: Good ol' boy. I just wish someone had told me it sent that message years ago so I would have known to stop wearing it sooner. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T23:09:57-06:00

ID

89677

Comment

Oh, and I'm going to be investing in a JSU sweatshirt one of these days. There are people I love who go to school and teach there. Maybe I'll get lucky and teach there myself one day. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T23:17:15-06:00

ID

89678

Comment

The fact that you invest this much time into thinking about what kind of sweatshirt you wear in public....................

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-06T23:30:56-06:00

ID

89679

Comment

Should I take this to mean that you'd be comfortable wearing a bright pink sweatshirt that reads "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend"...? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-06T23:36:39-06:00

ID

89680

Comment

Nope. I'd take about a millisecond to know I wouldn't wear that. If that long. You'd take three weeks, write two columns on it that endlessly detailed your inner turmoil over this crisis, post a poll on your website, and then wear what Donna told you to wear. ROFLMAO. The stuff I come up with on Castle Rock.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-06T23:59:03-06:00

ID

89681

Comment

ladd, maybe I misread your original post, but didn't it say F*ck the Grove? And as for the implication that I am a racist, you can stop right there. That is unfair and ungrounded and just because someone disagrees with your point, there is no reason to throw terrible accusations around like that. I support our flag because it was voted on, for better or worse. I support Ole Miss because I attended there and gained a great education. Additionally, I never attacted your education or wit, in fact I hold those in great regard. My post has and is about unfounded attacks on an institution, a place and the people who have made those things great. Also, I care very, very little how people see me, what I care about is people like you haphazardly throwing comments around like F*CK THE GROVE. I still maintain that you are an excellent writer and a hell of an investigative journalist, but I think you are WAY out of line calling me a racist and blanketly indicting Ole Miss and the Grove. You don't know me.

Author

E

Date

2006-11-07T00:03:16-06:00

ID

89682

Comment

Kingfish, I am trying very hard to be offended but your post is FUNNY AS HELL. You should post under the influence of Castle Rock more often, dude. E, if we were talking about nipplegate and I said "fuck the FCC," would you tell me a long story about your cousin who works with the FCC and all the wonderful people you know there? Read the statement in context. We don't live in a vacuum. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-07T01:46:48-06:00

ID

89683

Comment

Scotty said... I'll tell you this, though... you ever say anything like that in my presence and I'll make you regret it for the rest of your life. y said... Like what Scotty? Dude, seriously......chill out.

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T10:43:00-06:00

ID

89684

Comment

Wow... Chew on E's comment for a while ladd...I couldn’t agree more... Believe it or not ladd, you have a lot more respect than you think from people who simply don’t agree with you. I have told you that before...But you and especially the rest of your staff (a.k.a. the vast majority of the post on this site) have a bad habit of jumping to conclusions when someone posts a comment that doesn’t fit your ideals. If that is what you want this site to be then let it be known and encourage all other ladd non-followers to find somewhere else to play…

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T11:01:13-06:00

ID

89685

Comment

Needless to say Donna, you're doing a wonderful job of making our state proud, quite unlike many others. Don't worry yourself any over Sam Bowers' supporters and types. Like him they're an ugly and dying breed. Of course, you're right from everything I've read and seen in and about Oxford and ole miss. I think I'll attend a game up there for the sole purpose of discerning the missing meaning and essence of the Grove experience, assuming there is something missing. I'll write something here about it afterward. I know many black students who attended school there and thoroughly hated the place and the experience. According to them it's the same school and place it were in the 60's minus the violence and confrontation. I asked all of them whether they got anything special there they couldn't have gotten elsewhere. I got a unanimous no. I wonder whether it's really respectful or progressive or plausible or credible to seek the talents of all kinds of people to play sports up there and to expect gladiator-like performances from them while waiving the rebel flag, parading colonel reb, and using every racial epithet imaginable to describe the player? If you're not racist to the core why would a coach, a president, or rich alumnus have to tell you those acts hurt the feelings of minorities, the image of the school, and recruitment efforts of the athletic programs? If you're not racist to the core, why would you still resist change when it's so obvious to everyone, including yourself, that you're wrong? If that heritage isn't unequivocal racism then what is it? I know I didn't go to ole miss and I'm not as smart as its graduates but I sho' could use some help on these questions. I spent a week there in 1978 and hated every second of it. I'm open to changing my mind and seeing what you loving graduates see. Enlighten me, please. I hope I'm smart enough to comprehend. Thanks and much love. I've gotta leave for a few hours but I'll be back to read your comments.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-07T12:00:58-06:00

ID

89686

Comment

E, I didn't say you're a racist. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't get bent out of shape if people assume that about you if/when you defend racist symbols. If you are defending it out of ignorance about how it's been used, then you ought to educate yourself better about it—instead of listening to racists. Meantime, you aren't even trying to even the context (joking, for the most part) comment about the Grove. Someone else, as I recall, was saying that Tom better not go the Grove and push his ideas about JSU and the state flag. Now, just who is implying that the Grove is filled with racists here, E? My comment was in response to that asinine statement, and was designed to prick consciousness. Live with it. Now, will this make you feel any better? F*ck the drill field. F*ck the Robert E. Lee statue on the drill field. Now, you going to tell me to stay out of Starkville and not visit my alma mater? As for Ole Miss, there are good people there working very hard to overcome the past legacies. There are also some idiots who naively hold onto the past, pretending that racism and racist symbols aren't what they are. Those people need to be challenged every chance we get because they are hurting the state and Ole Miss, while they're at it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T12:14:08-06:00

ID

89687

Comment

And thank you so much for your comments, Ray. They need to be said—especially: If you're not racist to the core why would a coach, a president, or rich alumnus have to tell you those acts hurt the feelings of minorities, the image of the school, and recruitment efforts of the athletic programs? If you're not racist to the core, why would you still resist change when it's so obvious to everyone, including yourself, that you're wrong? If that heritage isn't unequivocal racism then what is it? I try constantly to give people the benefit of the doubt—assuming that ignorance of facts and history can truly blind people—but it is truly hard to believe a person who supports state-forced use of racist symbols when they protest loudly that they're not racist. Y'all can keep trying, but you got a tough row to hoe on it. The funny part is that people would believe you, whther they should or not, if you would simply challenge the symbols and acknowledge how they are used. Ball's in your court on this one; meantime, though, the rest of us are going to keep trying to lift Mississippi up past its past rather than lionize it. I believe Mississippi can lead this nation in many ways—but not while we're saddled with denial and racist symbols flapping in front of our public schools.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T12:18:36-06:00

ID

89688

Comment

Nice jump again ladd... Nope, never said or implied that the Grove is filled with racists, try Ole Miss fans. But if all Ole Miss fans IYO are racists then we have come full circle haven't we. Welcome to the JFP where our motto is "Do as I say not as I do." I like it...

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T12:57:59-06:00

ID

89689

Comment

Colby: KISS. MY. ASS. Ray: In all fairness, one of my very oldest and best friends from high schoo, an African-American, attended both college and graduate school at Ole Miss, as did his brother. To the best of my knowledge, they both were very happy to have gone to school there. I don't think that Ole Miss is getting enough credit here (and I should add that I am not particularly an Ole Miss "fan" -- don't really have any allegiances to any college in Mississippi, except Millsaps where I work part-time). They did stop using the Rebel flag as an official symbol, didn't they? They did hire an African-American basketball coach, one of the first SEC schools to do so, didn't they? Yes, there are still some backward-ass bigots there, but the same could be said of ANY school in this state. That doesn't make it okay, but let's try to have some perspective. Institutionally, it seems to me that they have come a long way (unless I am missing something -- wouldn't be the first time). Attacking them for still having some redneck attitudes among the student body... Rome wasn't built in a day. And E shouldn't have to account for the attitudes of every single Ole Miss-connected person. Also, Donna, as far as the state flag goes... I don't like it, I do think it's a racist symbol, and it pains me to know that it's still our flag. However, I know a lot of people who I consider to be good folks, and whom I do not consider to be racist, who don't feel the same way about the flag. They have an argument for keeping the flag that is internally consistent for the most part, even though I disagree with it. So, when you say that "it is truly hard to believe a person who supports state-forced use of racist symbols when they protest loudly that they're not racist"... Although I agree with you about the flag, I think it's unfair to say that such a person is being disingenuous, because *in their opinion* there is no "state-forced use of racist symbols" going on. This may seem like a distinction without a difference, but I think we at least need to acknowledge that a difference of opinion about one detail does not automatically make the person a racist across the board.

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-07T13:26:33-06:00

ID

89690

Comment

Thanks for the invite Scotty but unfortunately I don’t swing that way...

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T13:48:30-06:00

ID

89691

Comment

internally consistent for the most part, Not sure what that means, Scott. ;-) What is their argument; let's air it out. I, too, know people who "support" the flag whom I respect on other fronts; on this one, they seem to simply live in denial about what it means. I've talked about that already. Honestly, I'm not trying to "attack" Ole Miss here. My original statement was in response to colby's comment that Tom couldn't say what he did in the Grove. I'm not sure what he was trying to say there if it had nothing to do with the racial views supposed occupants of the Grove (and it's sad that he/she would try to make all Ole Miss people sound alike). We're challenging stereotypes here all around, although I'm not sure that the worst offenders can see that. Colby, if you meant something different than the way you came across, you might try explaining it a different way. You can't expect people to translate your unclear statements for you. I'm not trying to hear you say something offensive; I'd rather never hear a Mississippi make an ignorant remark ever again. And, colby, with due respect, if you think I said anything near that all Ole Miss fans are racist, then you're simply an idiot. I'm. not. saying. that.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T13:48:36-06:00

ID

89692

Comment

Donna: all I am saying (maybe not very clearly) is that even though I think their argument for defending the flag is weak, it makes sense to them... and since they don't think it's racist, it's hard to say they are being less than honest. That don't make 'em right by any stretch. Other than that though, I know you weren't attacking Ole Miss across the board. But I was struck by Ray's blanket statements that all African-Americans he knew that attended Ole Miss hated it. Not disputing the truth of what he said... just find it hard to believe that it is necessarily true of all or even most African-American Ole Miss students today. There are plenty of other educational options in this state besides Ole Miss, especially at the undergraduate level.

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-07T13:56:45-06:00

ID

89693

Comment

Thank you Scott. Good points. As for ladd, I find it funny how you go from saying F*ck the Grove to attempting to take the moral high ground. That dog don't hunt, quoting you earlier. I reassert my former statement regarding that you are an elite liberal who merely wants her agenda pushed over the democratic vote of the people, and here I am refering to the flag issue. And yes, you did imply that I am a racist, because that was your last resort, to stoop to the level of throwing insults at someone you don't even know. You promote this idea of being open minded, a person who will listen to different ponits, but when push comes to shove, you only want people to line up on your side like followers. I think its amazing you can turn on your intelligence when you want, then other times become a foul mouthed ideologue.

Author

E

Date

2006-11-07T14:04:29-06:00

ID

89694

Comment

it's hard to say they are being less than honest. That don't make 'em right by any stretch. I don't disagree with you, Scott. But also cannot outright disagree with Ray. What reason can there possibly be at this point to support use of the Confederate flag in our *state* flag? And if people have weak arguments that we disagree with—and they're good people and not racists or racism apologists—how the heck at this point can they not re-examine their arguments and choose not to hurt people by supporting such symbols? There's not a lot of room for gray on this, and it's hard to respect someone who is so beholden to ... something ... that they won't even understand why black families, say, wouldn't their children going to a school under a flag that was used as a symbol for lynching a mere generation ago. That is, I think the real question is: What is it about certain people who make them turn a blind eye to such pain in their fellow citizens? I really think *that* is what Ray is getting to, and it is something I simply cannot comprehend.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T14:06:24-06:00

ID

89695

Comment

E, has it dawned on you that I don't care what you think? You are predictable. You are looking for a sound bite to lambaste another damn elitist liberal with—go whine on talk radio or something—it's not going to stop me, or anyone else with conviction, from speaking up about symbols that hurt our citizens, our reputation, our business climate and self-confidence as a state and a citizenry. I don't care about you; I care about my frackin' state. You're not listening to a thing I've said—funny how that happens with people trolling to hurl the elitist liberal label. you are an elite liberal who merely wants her agenda pushed over the democratic vote of the people, and here I am refering to the flag issue. And you are speaking loud and clear for yourself on this one; congratulations for being oh-so-convincing. (smile)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T14:11:10-06:00

ID

89696

Comment

I seriously doubt you care about your state, seeing as you care very little for a democratic vote on the flag issue. You care about yourself, your reputation among liberal society and you care about finding a way to "put down" someone who disagrees with you by implying they are a racist and insulting them. Good job.

Author

E

Date

2006-11-07T14:19:53-06:00

ID

89697

Comment

E writes: I seriously doubt you care about your state, seeing as you care very little for a democratic vote on the flag issue. See, this is one more instance where you're recycling the old segregationist arguments; "If you really cared about Mississippi, it'd bother you that most voters here don't want integration." You know what I care about, E? I care about the fact that 80 percent of black voters opposed the Confederate flag, and that was not enough to make a majority of white voters realize it needed to be changed. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-07T14:29:03-06:00

ID

89698

Comment

And Ray, this is probably the best summary of Ole Miss' image problems I've ever read: I wonder whether it's really respectful or progressive or plausible or credible to seek the talents of all kinds of people to play sports up there and to expect gladiator-like performances from them while waiving the rebel flag, parading colonel reb, and using every racial epithet imaginable to describe the player? Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-11-07T14:30:45-06:00

ID

89699

Comment

See there it goes again. I'm getting cast as a segregationist. Neither you, Head or you ladd know who I am and just because I believe in voting on a issue like that flag doesn't make me a racist or a segregationist. Stop implying things like that, those are unfair accusations.

Author

E

Date

2006-11-07T14:32:10-06:00

ID

89700

Comment

E, you are digging yourself a hole here. I have pissed off "liberals" for years—from loudly supporting Clinton's impeachment to now saying on a regular basis how inept the state Democratic Party is. I'm not a Republican, but I won't call myself a Democrat, either, and say that loudly and publicly every chance I can. I won't settle for B.S., and I don't give a damn which party, or ideology, is spewing it. I may not give a damn what an anonymous Internet troll thinks, but I also could give a flying banana what "liberal society" thinks about anything I say. I'm an American and take that privilege very seriously. I think independently, and I hate partisanship. Because I love my state so, I care deeply about the "democratic vote on the flag issue." I think it indicates a severe brokenness at the core of our state—and it can only be healed by people talking, challenging and sharing their stories, i.e. educating. I feel very, very sorry for anyone who does not understand what that vote says about us as a state—to our own residents. It was a vote of self-hatred in many ways. And it's funny that the people who whine the loudest about what others think about us are often the same ones who support a racist symbol in our state flag. Funny how that works. Funny in a tragic way, that is. But, the good news is that things are changing. Racist and racism apologists are not the future of Mississippi.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T14:32:42-06:00

ID

89701

Comment

E, if you don't want to sound like a segregationist, then why repeat their primary argument ad nauseum? Don't you bear some personal responsibility somewhere in here? Or, is it always the damn liberal elites' fault that you are defending racist symbols of the past? There are many Mississippians who are very tired of having these arguments presented on behalf of us all. We are not moving because we don't like y'alls ways and tired excuses -- not anymore -- we are standing our ground on behalf of our state. Get used to it. Mississippi is changing, with or without you.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T14:35:25-06:00

ID

89702

Comment

I will try to explain. There was a statement made along the lines of having JSU be the flagship of the whole university system in Mississippi. Ole Miss fans in the Grove are there to offer support for their University. These fans are devout and have a true love for the University and its traditions as do most fans of their respective universities and colleges. Imagine if Tom went to the Grove on football Saturday and started talking to some fans about the JSU Flagship concept. To get race out of the way, imagine if he changed it to the Millsaps concept or the “Any other Institution” concept. It would not go over very well. There would be no fighting. People would just laugh. A few would say, "I dont that that's gonna work bud." And the rest would tell you to try the Abner’s. I don’t know how once again race got thrown into the mix but it did. That is not my fault. I feel it would be the same way if JSU got a memo from Ole Miss stating -- “Due to certain circumstances JSU will now be under the administration of The University of Mississippi.” Would it not?

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T14:38:36-06:00

ID

89703

Comment

I wonder whether it's really respectful or progressive or plausible or credible to seek the talents of all kinds of people to play sports up there and to expect gladiator-like performances from them while waiving the rebel flag, parading colonel reb, and using every racial epithet imaginable to describe the player?

Actually, I think Ole Miss has already dumped Colonel Rebel, according to this link. And they long ago dumped the Dixie fight song and the Rebel flag. None of these moves were popular, of course.

Author

Scott Albert Johnson

Date

2006-11-07T14:39:50-06:00

ID

89704

Comment

I dont that that's gonna work bud." Well, it's nice to hear you adopting a different, Millsapsian perhaps tone. You up above: Im with you on this one Tom... I have about had it with the offinsive flag and mascot. I think a simple black flag with a white or maybe pink dot in the middle would be fine. For a mascot, a horse or maybe a frog. The Ole Miss frogs has a good ring to it. I really think you need to go to the Grove during the next football game in oxford and push your ideas... Any clue how that sounds?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T14:43:27-06:00

ID

89705

Comment

None of these moves were popular, of course. Yep, and that's the sad part. You'd think the only alternative was a frog, eh? An old plantation owner—or a warty frog; what's an Ole Miss fan to do? ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T14:44:42-06:00

ID

89706

Comment

You put your best foot forward here, too, colby: Better yet, Colby, why don't you go to the cafeteria at Jackson State, stand up on a chair, and start proclaiming YOUR personal philosophy? I'd pay to see that. (Just try not to be too "offinsive".) Posted by: Scott Albert Johnson on Nov 06, 06 | 3:55 pm Scotty, You aren’t suggesting anything violent would happen are you? Its not kind to profile… Posted by: colby on Nov 06, 06 | 4:15 pm Funny, I thought it was the Ole Miss campus where the most "school violence" had occurred in our state's history? Not to profile. Now, can you see the direction you spun this in?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T14:48:10-06:00

ID

89707

Comment

My comment on this issue is: Geaux to hell Ole Miss Geaux to hell!!!

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-07T15:09:51-06:00

ID

89708

Comment

No spin ladd, but if you say so, it is your back yard we are playing in and you make the rules. I dont think it's up to you to determine when my best foot comes forward but thanks again for your support.

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T15:13:23-06:00

ID

89709

Comment

I didn't determine anything about your foot movement. You said what you said, and others including myself responded. I do appreciate the clarification, though; it does sound like you didn't mean to come across as you did. And that happens to us all; it's often our follow-up that counts. Otherwise, I agree with Kingfish. But I have to; I'm a State grad. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T15:16:52-06:00

ID

89710

Comment

Where did I go to college ladd? Lets see how good your follow up is...

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T15:27:56-06:00

ID

89711

Comment

See what I mean about jumping to conclusions?

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T15:29:20-06:00

ID

89712

Comment

I don't really care where you went to college, colby. ;-) And I'm not sure I see any relevance. No, I don't see what you mean. I haven't jumped to any conclusions about you, only responded to what you yourself posted.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T15:32:25-06:00

ID

89713

Comment

True, true... Just jumped to a conclusion that you thought I might have gone to Ole Miss. My bad...

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T15:39:08-06:00

ID

89714

Comment

Well, I'll just say, some people better watch out since Thanksgiving and Christmas are nearing. Just might get snatched up and placed inside a turkey. The truth is the light and all the bullcrap, fantasy, and make-believe in the world can't change that. Scott, as always, I enjoy reading your writings. I must hear you play some day. Tommy Carter, a very good guitarist, who recently died was my cousin. On this one occasion for sure, you added nothing to ponder in the school's defense. Nobody is fooling me one iota. Even a few blacks going to ole miss and singing its praises does nothing by way of illusion for me because a couple of trees couldn't blind me from seeing the whole forest. Ole miss (which is intent on staying ole mississippi in every way) was what it was, is what it is, the past is not dead there, and the past isn't even the past with this school. Fight on rebels. Don't be afraid to be what you are. Some of us liked y'all better when you were out in the open. Much love to my fellow Mississippians and brothers and sisters. You sho' make it hard to have any respect for you. And you have my permission to call me anything you wish including the N word. Oh I forgot, you don't need permission. Liberal elitist is too nice for me, right?! Smile.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-07T15:43:56-06:00

ID

89715

Comment

ladd's way or the highway, huh? I guess that is idea of this site. ladd, I disagree with you. I think your out of line in characterizing me in anyway. You have a poor attitdude and have done nothing but attack me and pigeon-hole me, whereas I have tried to be as respectful of you as I could. I know you don't give a damn about me or my opinions but I had to say these things because of your original statement: "F*ck the Grove." I still think your a good writer and good journalist but I guess I now realize what kind of attitude you have when it comes to running into an opinion you differ on, you either 1) get on your high horse and categorize people as ignorant or 2) you reduce yourself to insults and profanity. I wish you the best, but with your mindset I doubt you have even heard a word I've said.

Author

E

Date

2006-11-07T15:48:48-06:00

ID

89716

Comment

Excellent job Donna as usual. Sometimes when a baby is crying it's not because it's hungry or need a change in diaper. And it's certainly not because they're saying anything. Sometimes hollering is all they know how to do, and you just have to ignore them. F*@k the Grove, whatever it is.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-07T16:08:02-06:00

ID

89717

Comment

E, I've heard every word you said and responded to many of them very directly, which I suspect is what has you all out of sorts and accusatory of me. I'm curious, why don't you respond the same way to "Go to hell, Ole Miss," or "Geaux to Hell, Ole Miss," as Fishy puts it? You seem rather fixated on lambasting my elitism. You are taking my comment out of the context I intended it, and you have ignored everything else I've said about it. You have ridiculed me and called me names because I believe support of racist emblems indicate ignorance (at best). My responses have, for the most part, responded to the way you're dissin' me personally, as anyone can read for themselves. You made it personal toward me, and you don't like what that got you. That would be your problem. Otherwise, I don't know how else to say it: I believe that anyone who supports the Confederate emblem in our state flag is (a) ignorant of our history and the pain it has caused many of our residents, (b) fully aware of our history and embraces it somehow. On this issue, I don't see a third way. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable, but as a writer and journalist, it is my job to comfort the afflicted and affict the comfortable. And if you're comfortable with a racist emblem in the state flag, then I have no problem afflicting that comfort. Those attitudes are not good for this state or our future, and I will challenge them every chance I get. And I suspect that if you truly believed, deep down, that there is nothing wrong with the flag, that you wouldn't be so offended at my calling you out on it. Certainly, my convictions go down to my toes, and your words therefore don't hurt me one iota.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T16:16:33-06:00

ID

89718

Comment

Who has ladd ingnored? Glad you have such a strong stance on something you know nothing about Ray... Common.

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T16:16:42-06:00

ID

89719

Comment

Colby, I don't think the argument is about not hurting The Grove's feelings, right? I think Ray is fully versed in the pain of racism in Mississippi, which is what we're talking about. This thread, after all, is supposed to be about one of our state's most notorious white supremacists. So, we're on topic, of a fashion. ;-) I think Ray is advising me to ignore y'all. And I will, certainly after the 17th hurl of the "elitist" label. Right now, though, I'm finding this useful. You might not have seen me admit that I work out writing ideas by blogging. So, thanks in advance for your assistance.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T16:22:38-06:00

ID

89720

Comment

No problem ladd.. The bill is in the mail. ;)

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-07T16:30:29-06:00

ID

89721

Comment

;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T16:34:14-06:00

ID

89722

Comment

My friend, Colby, although I can barely read and write; I've read and heard many bad things said about it which left me confused, but I'm withholding final judgment until I see it myself. As you no doubt agree, I should never believe bad things I hear about ole miss unless I personally see them. When is the next game so I can see the grove for myself? Are they burning anything there like they do at some schools, meetings or get-togethers? Can you show me around and introduce me to the right people. You won't believe it, but I like your comments and soul stirrings. This is also true about many others I disagree with.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-07T17:03:29-06:00

ID

89723

Comment

I have Black friends.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-07T17:21:27-06:00

ID

89724

Comment

I count myself as one of them Kingfish. But I wouldn't hang around you without a knife, ice-pick or gun nearby.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-07T17:34:21-06:00

ID

89725

Comment

Uh oh, is this a "racial incident" in the making!?!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-07T17:38:02-06:00

ID

89726

Comment

Nall, Donna. Nothing racial at all. Fish and I are like two blood brothers who wouldn't go to sleep when in close proximity unless the windows and doors are barricaded.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-07T17:50:50-06:00

ID

89727

Comment

and I wouldn't want the bottom bunk in case he bedwets.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-11-07T18:21:05-06:00

ID

89728

Comment

I'm leaving this one alone...

Author

colby

Date

2006-11-08T11:41:56-06:00

ID

89729

Comment

Me too Colby. I had planned to come in and show you and others what I know about the grove experience at ole miss, but i'm so happy about the new plight of the country that I can't even muster the evil intent to torment ole miss grads and supporters. However, I'm locked, cocked and ready to rock should any ole miss grads or supporters desire to take me on.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-11-08T12:14:30-06:00

ID

89730

Comment

Now, will this make you feel any better? F*ck the drill field. F*ck the Robert E. Lee statue on the drill field. Now, you going to tell me to stay out of Starkville and not visit my alma mater? I hate to jump into this sordid political discussion and correct the boss, but the bust on the f-ing drill field is of Stephen Lee, Mississippi State's first president. He was a Confederate general and he does sort of look like R.E. Lee, but c'mon. FYI, that ancient pile of red bricks to the rear of Prez Lee's bust is Lee Hall.

Author

Dr. S

Date

2006-11-08T15:06:46-06:00

ID

89731

Comment

Yeah, yeah, I know. You told me already, and I told you to post it. What's funny is that it's been lodged all these years in my head as "Robert E. Lee." Busted. My apologizes to, uh, the statue. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-11-08T15:11:34-06:00