Jackson Free Press

The Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal is reporting that a second-year Ole Miss student has been arrested for dragging and killing a campus police officer after he was pulled over for speeding:

Officer Robert Langley, 30, had stopped a vehicle for speeding when the driver suddenly pulled away, dragging him approximately 200 yards. Langley suffered severe head injuries and was taken by helicopter to the Medical Center in Memphis where he was pronounced dead. Within 30 minutes of the incident, Oxford Police detained 20-year-old Daniel Cummings, a second-year UM student from Germantown, Tenn. Cummings has been charged with capital murder of police officer and is being held in the Lafayette County Detention Center.

A four-year veteran of the University Police Department, Langley had returned in April from serving with the National Guard in Afghanistan. He is survived by his wife Lisa, two sons and two stepdaughters.

Previous Comments

ID

89441

Comment

So now this guy's gonna get the needle over a speeding ticket? Though I don't approve of capital punishment, this guy deserves it for sheer stupidity.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2006-10-21T22:39:56-06:00

ID

89442

Comment

From student to murderer in seconds. Insane.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2006-10-21T22:59:06-06:00

ID

89443

Comment

It's so sad when a soldier survives fighting overseas just to get killed at home. I think we have a bigger war to fight right here at home.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-10-21T23:57:09-06:00

ID

89444

Comment

I knew this guy that is now charged with murder. Its sad and shocking to see this has happened.

Author

eag

Date

2006-10-22T17:24:58-06:00

ID

89445

Comment

No, golden eagle boy, "this guy's gonna get the needle" because he was fighting in Afghanistan and has returned home where someone thought that going back to school rather than going into treatment was a better idea. I don't mean to come across with scarcasm; however, there will be many more egregious acts committed by those who have been spent time in war and who are returning with very serious signs and symptoms of mental illness but are not being definitively diagnosed. These cases are PTSD and the symptoms are often unreal! Entire families have been killed in the past when a soldier relives a battlefield experience. Just remember that what is real to the mind is real.

Author

justjess

Date

2006-10-23T10:30:22-06:00

ID

89446

Comment

It's funny. The comments I've hard so far about this college student is how it's so tragic that he "made a mistake." I agree that it is tragic. But do people start questioning his upbringing and the values his parents instilled at some point—as they do with so many other young people? Or do they get a pass on that because he clearly just "made a mistake"? Food for thought.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T11:53:46-06:00

ID

89447

Comment

JustJess, The student was not a Veteran. The officer that was murdered was.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T11:57:06-06:00

ID

89448

Comment

Ladd, It's amazing to me how much compassion we as a nation have for the perpetrators, and how quickly we forget the real victims. Please keep his family in your prayers.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T11:59:43-06:00

ID

89449

Comment

Very few people, if any, forget the victims. It's risky for some people to focus on this aspect of the matter. The general public focus almost exclusively on the victims, and there are victim rights organizations unilaterally playing this role. I make it a point to state how horrible the crime is, and often dangerously concede the goodness or worth of the victim when it's advisable and maybe even borderline ineffective as defense counsel to do this. I have to let jurors know I'm human and feel the loss, too. I hope my office doen't get forced to take this case, and if the office, not me personally.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T12:14:21-06:00

ID

89450

Comment

I meant concede when "not" advisable. If the defense lawyer does his or her job your questions should be answered Donna during the social history and mitigation aspect of the investigation and trial.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T12:19:21-06:00

ID

89451

Comment

"MY BAD" golden eagle boy. I read your post and totally missed the victim and the perpretrator. The roles were thought in reverse. It would be interesting to know the student's background and family HX. How could one have such poor impusse control and such rage and not have a diagnosis????????????

Author

justjess

Date

2006-10-23T12:27:20-06:00

ID

89452

Comment

impulse. Please correct my spelling error!

Author

justjess

Date

2006-10-23T12:30:21-06:00

ID

89453

Comment

LawClerk, I think we're saying the same thing. Everything about this is tragic, and my heart breaks for the family of the police officer. Man. I also feel compassion for the family of the college student, but still he should not be treated as more tragic in some way than other young criminals with different backgrounds. I also remember talk like that about the young man who was drunk at the reservoir who ran the stop sign and killed that whole family of children. There was a remarkable amount of sympathy for him that seemed to negate the seriousness of his actions. Anyway, tragedy all around, and all the families deserve our prayers. They will never be the same again.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T12:50:14-06:00

ID

89454

Comment

Ladd, I believe we are saying the same thing. I am constantly in amazement how quick we turn to the perpetrator, and start treating him/her as the victim. I believe that they made a choice, and their actions dictate their punishment. They are the only ones to blame for their own situation. My brother went to highschool with the officer. I did not personally know him.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T13:33:20-06:00

ID

89455

Comment

We're saying some of the same thing. ;-) I believe that it is good and necessary to look at the backgrounds of perpetrators—not to let them off the hook, but to figure out not to let these things happen in the future. Did this happen because he had a privileged upbringing that taught him he was better than folks like police officers (Ali's column this issue comes to mind)? Was there a history of violence and alcoholism (not to mention drunk driving) in his family? What about the drinking culture in Mississippi and Oxford? Do people get off too easily for drinking and driving? What in the culture/his upbringing made him think he could just drive away? And so on. Of course, he must be punished thoroughly—and there will be a clear deterrent value in that, we can hope. But that doesn't mean we can't take the time to look at his own background, and the people who enabled him, and try to learn some lessons for the future.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T13:40:42-06:00

ID

89456

Comment

The Commercial Appeal has some details I haven't seen elsewhere: Langley, 30, had spotted the pickup speeding on Fraternity Row, a university road, at about 2 a.m. The truck stopped just outside campus on Jackson Avenue in Oxford. "The officer approached the vehicle's driver, who tried to pull away," said Jeffrey Alford, associate vice chancellor for university relations. Langley somehow got "tangled up and caught" on the truck as it fled. "The truck never stopped," Alford added. Oxford police found it abandoned in town about 20 minutes later, he said. Police soon after found Cummings a couple of miles away at his off-campus apartment.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T13:41:43-06:00

ID

89457

Comment

Anyone knows the race of the truckdriving defendant?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T13:54:11-06:00

ID

89458

Comment

Never mind, I have the answer. He is apparently rich and has hired Steve Farese.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T14:15:03-06:00

ID

89459

Comment

Ray, best case scenario for him is a plea deal. I am not of the opinion that he will actually be acquitted of these charges. I don't even think Mr. Farese will be able to help that much.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T14:32:24-06:00

ID

89460

Comment

Wow, I just had to register to comment on this page. Ray, what relevance is there in knowing this kids race? The fact is this kid killed somebody. I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for police officers who have to routinely walk up to cars not knowing if they will be punched, shot, or dragged to their death. If the guy is white, what relevance is there? If he is black, what does that matter? What about Asian or Latino? Also, how did you supposedly determine his race? By the lawyer he hired?

Author

rpr

Date

2006-10-23T14:36:27-06:00

ID

89461

Comment

By the way, I happen to know he is white. But I don't see what that matters. He's as guilty as someone can be and the judge (hopefully) will use him as an example to try and curve the drinking and driving problem.

Author

rpr

Date

2006-10-23T14:39:36-06:00

ID

89462

Comment

Well, I think the fact that's he's an SAE tells us what race he is, right? Or, has Ole Miss started integrating their fraternities? I could be behind (I hope). I think the only relevance of his race is not to the case itself, but possibly to the way it's covered and the way people react to it. I suspect that, if he were black, we'd be hearing a lot more by now far and wide about his irresponsible parents and community and school, and anything else. We'd also probably have a mugshot published all over the place (anyone seen one?), and perhaps a perp-walk photo of him in an orange jumpsuit with a bulletproof vest.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T14:48:26-06:00

ID

89463

Comment

Holy cow, he hired Farese! Even I know who Farese is! I doubt Farese will keep him out of jail; but, he may keep him alive! Talk about some heavy-hitters!

Author

pikersam

Date

2006-10-23T14:51:31-06:00

ID

89464

Comment

http://wmctv.images.worldnow.com/images/5570986_BG2.jpg The top one is the mugshot. Below is the image of the officer http://wmctv.images.worldnow.com/images/5570986_BG1.jpg Anytime you are looking to blame things on "race," you will find it. However, if you look at things race-neutral, the truth will be revealed.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T14:52:17-06:00

ID

89465

Comment

Question: Have you seen that mugshot run in a paper in Mississippi or Tennessee? I haven't yet, but might have missed it. Actually, no, the "truth" will not be revealed by deciding that everything is "race-neutral." That's as bad as deciding everything is about race. Both are stupid, small-minded approaches.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T15:02:36-06:00

ID

89466

Comment

BTW, LawClerk, study after study shows that media (including places like The New York Times) overwhelmingly treats perps of color differently than white ones. When the accused is white and from a "good" neighborhood, mainstream media are far more likely to seek out their yearbook photo. With non-whites, they are much more likely to run mugshots, perp-walk photos, etc. After this was exposed in recent year, many media outlets are working to try to improve the institutional bias in their coverage. However, I'm not totally convinced that Mississippi outlets ever got the memo.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T15:05:15-06:00

ID

89467

Comment

Well, Ladd, I didn't say thing "were" race-neutral, but only if you looked at things as race-neutral. I tend not to bring up race in these situations because it does very little to add to the argument on either side. I'm not sure if you've been to any of the college campuses recently, but, SAE's are by no means the only "segregated" fraternities/sororities. I was in a professional fraternity in college, and I think that out of all the "greek letter" organizations, ours was the only one that was about 50/50 in our members.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T15:07:13-06:00

ID

89469

Comment

Asking a question about race doesn't tell anyone anything about what I think of race or how race affects/effects death penalty cases. I was tempted to tell ahead of time why I asked the question. Of course, I had sense enough to know that if I didn't tell why I asked the question, I would get the usual defensive and clueless crap from many people, and I did. Apparently, y'all are smarter than all the social scientists, historians, and death penalty lawyers and advocates the world over. I apologize for asking such a dumb question. I could educate you but it would be wrong of me to try and add a little truth to that fine education you already have. Y'all are too smart for me. Cheers. I'm jealous. Much love.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T15:12:57-06:00

ID

89468

Comment

First, Clerk, I didn't saw that SAEs were the only segregated fraternities, did I? I said that you could assume he was white because he was an SAE and, to my knowledge, fraternities at Ole Miss still are segregated. Well, Ladd, I didn't say thing "were" race-neutral, but only if you looked at things as race-neutral. Um, LawClerk, I doubt you meant to do this, but you just said that you look at things as race-neutral even if they aren't. You're sure not the only one. That's a huge problem we have—people first assuming that race doesn't play a role when it actually does, or might, if we took the time to take our "race-neutral" blinders off. Again, try a little reading comprehension, though. The point here is not whether race had anything to do with his crime; it's how it perhaps would have been treated differently had he been black. And that make you uncomfortable (you're welcome to stop reading at any time, remember), but we can only show this kind of institutional racism by looking at how both sides of the coin are treated. And doing this isn't exactly disrespecting this dude, for goodness sake. He's accused of killing a police officer! So it's as good a time as any to look at how this case is being covered or responded to by the general public, and compare how that might be different had be been poor and black. I'm sure he won't mind; he's got bigger problems.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T15:12:57-06:00

ID

89470

Comment

to know that if I didn't tell why I asked the question, I would get the usual defensive and clueless crap from many people, and I did. Alas, of course you did, Ray. The "race-neutral" knee starts it inevitable jerking action ...

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T15:14:48-06:00

ID

89471

Comment

Ladd, Thanks for your replies. I can assure you that my reading comprehension is spot-on. Black, White, Brown, or Yellow with pink polka dots... you kill a cop and you should pay. Dearly.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T15:21:06-06:00

ID

89472

Comment

I can assure you that my reading comprehension is spot-on. Apparently not. You twisted what I said about fraternities, and seem to be completely missing the point about the race issue, only retorting with: Black, White, Brown, or Yellow with pink polka dots... you kill a cop and you should pay. Dearly. No one here has said differently, have they? I think you're arguing with yourself -- in a "race-neutral" way, of course.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T15:26:31-06:00

ID

89473

Comment

rpr and lawclerk, I have one question for you though. Let's assume by some miraculous event or freak of nature you accidentally or recklessly killed a black police officer in Africa or some other region dominated by black people who had been or were then hostile to whites, and you were to be charged and tried for capital murder with an all black jury, a black judge, and a black prosecutor. Add in mostly or all white police officers and court personnel. Would you not have any concerns about whether you would receive fairness? Would not not wonder whether you even had a chance of receiving the lesser penalty of life without the possibility of parole?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T15:59:26-06:00

ID

89474

Comment

Ray, In Africa? Sure, I bet that you are correct. Wasn't it in South Africa that they were killing the white farmers and taking their land? Does it ever get to the point that "had been or were then" hostile ends? Or do we keep using that as an excuse to race-ify everything?

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T16:06:30-06:00

ID

89475

Comment

LawClerk, how would you personally define "the point" where we're all supposed to start ignoring race as a possible factor? Give us some specifics, a checklist perhaps, of how we're supposed to know that all the bad stuff is over and its effects alleviated. And you might also define "race-ify" while you're at it. I truly don't understand what that means.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T16:09:52-06:00

ID

89476

Comment

I also wonder if you would be quite as opposed to "race-ifying" if you were the member of a race that is treated completely differently, and over all much harsher, by the criminal-justice system, not to mention the mainstream media. It sounds suspiciously like you're simply asking people to ignore facts such as those because, well, you're not comfortable talking about race. And, besides, those things aren't your problem. Maybe you're not saying that, but it sure sounds like it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T16:11:57-06:00

ID

89477

Comment

Were African really taking land from white farmers or white folks? Lawclerk, I just wanted to see if you're grounded in reality. Your last post answers that question for me. If brillant and honest social scientists, historians, jury consultants, death penalty experts and many more unbias experts know race is still a factor in these cases why can't you know it too? Of course, I know why! All the best. Good luck.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T16:13:24-06:00

ID

89478

Comment

Ladd, I'm very comfortable talking about race. If you'll reread my posts, I'm not the one exclaiming that race is the issue here, nor am I making ad hominem attacks on other poster's education. (ie. reading comprehension). Thanks for the well wishes, Ray, but I believe you are also saying that in jest. I will choose to stop posting because this needs to be about the police officer and his family, and not some people that can't find a way to argue articulately on an internet message board. Thanks.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T16:19:51-06:00

ID

89479

Comment

Were African really taking land from white farmers or white folks? Hello..I think that was in Rhodesia......not South Africa.....

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-10-23T16:33:32-06:00

ID

89480

Comment

Don't leave law clerk. I like you. I like making new friends. You had better open your eyes if you're planning on driving any time soon. Driving while blind isn't easy as studying with your eyes closed. I refused to answer your question because I didn't want to be mean to you. The truth would ave hit you so hard that you would have considered it mean-spirited. The defendant is white so his blackness can't be an issue.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T16:36:41-06:00

ID

89481

Comment

I can see the Headline now.....Lawyer says "Student Hit & Run molested by Priest".....officer looked just like him and he panicked......checked into rehab in Jackson.....

Author

ATLExile

Date

2006-10-23T16:45:07-06:00

ID

89482

Comment

I hope this helps LawClerk. I have never said the defendant shouldn't pay for his crime. Or any other defendant. No one else here has said that either that I read. I do wish you the best lawclerk and I bet our differences are only small. Stay around and we will see. None of us are perfect. We're all trying to learn and teach each other.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-23T16:57:58-06:00

ID

89483

Comment

Ray is right, Clerk. No one here said that "race is the issue here" (much less "exclaimed" it). No one said the defendant shouldn't pay for his crime. And a number of people here, myself included, have expressed sympathy for the police officer's family (I also feel for the accused's family, as I typically do, regardless of the circumstances). I also have not been personally attacking you. The fact is that, on this thread, you are showing poor reading comprehension skills. Or, worse, you are purposefully trying to put different words in people's mouths. Neither of those things are nice to do. As the moderator, I can tell you that I did not start this thread only as a place to express sympathy for the families, although people are welcome and encouraged to do so. They are also welcome to discuss peripheral issues that this raises, as we are doing. So I appreciate the attempt to help me moderate, but I don't need it. I'm good.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T17:02:31-06:00

ID

89484

Comment

Ladd: "I think the only relevance of his race is not to the case itself, but possibly to the way it's covered and the way people react to it. I suspect that, if he were black, we'd be hearing a lot more by now far and wide about his irresponsible parents and community and school, and anything else. We'd also probably have a mugshot published all over the place (anyone seen one?), and perhaps a perp-walk photo of him in an orange jumpsuit with a bulletproof vest." Yeah, like all those black child molestors that were displayed for about three straight weeks on WLBT when they got busted by Perverted Justice. Oh wait, I think they were all white and maybe one latino. Ray, you obviously seem to be some type of race-baiter. You prove it with this quote: "I was tempted to tell ahead of time why I asked the question. Of course, I had sense enough to know that if I didn't tell why I asked the question, I would get the usual defensive and clueless crap from many people, and I did." What "defensive and clueless crap" are you referring to? And you also say that juries in MS (I assume) are all white. Huh? Wah? The fact that you guys have already turned the death of this officer into a race issue is very interesting . But, I realize some people have to make careers out of race. Good luck with all that.

Author

rpr

Date

2006-10-23T17:35:25-06:00

ID

89485

Comment

Do a Google search for "South African White Farmers". I'm not leaving, just merely not to comment much on this. I come here for news, which is quite informative.

Author

LawClerk

Date

2006-10-23T17:40:58-06:00

ID

89486

Comment

rpr, I know you just joined to talk about this issue, and that's fine. But you should use some basic netiquette and click around this site, picking up some context, before jumping in and accusing people of being "race-baiters." Allow me to put this gently: No one here is saying that a white man causing the death of another white man is a "race issue." No one here is quite that stupid. Now, you are on a site that discusses issues deeply and from various angles. One issue we are very interested in here is how the media cover crime and criminals. The race discussion here is about whether this young man would be covered in the same way were he black, or if people would be saying different things. That is a vital and needed discussion point that is not directly related to the horrible thing that college student is accused of doing. And having that discussion in no way means that anyone here believes that the young man should be treated any differently than any other accused criminal, whether by the criminal-justice system, the media or everyday citizens. May I suggest that if you do not understand, or want to participate in that part of the conversation, that you simply ignore it and stick to the issues that interest you. Your calling other people names because they wish to discuss a race-related issue is not acceptable here.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T17:43:10-06:00

ID

89487

Comment

Do what you need to do, LawClerk. Our feelings won't be hurt if you don't comment. Your point about the South African whtie farmers went over my head, but that's OK, no need to explain.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T17:44:07-06:00

ID

89488

Comment

Ray: I think you should hire him.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-10-23T18:09:35-06:00

ID

89489

Comment

Clearly a match made in heaven. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T18:14:00-06:00

ID

89490

Comment

by the way Laddy, what happened to the national issues forum? BAMBAMBAMBAM!!!!! I want it back.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-10-23T18:22:25-06:00

ID

89491

Comment

I have no idea, Fishy. Yell at the iTodd about it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T18:24:28-06:00

ID

89492

Comment

I'm cut and dried on this issue. He killed a police officer. I think they should treat him as if he was black criminal that shot a cop. They are one and the same with me. If there's a photo of this white frat boy thug drinking face first under a leaky keg; show it. I don't give a sh!t. He should be put to death the same as any urban criminal from the hood. And, the press should treat him accordingly.

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2006-10-23T18:26:55-06:00

ID

89493

Comment

I would expect no less consistency from you, Cliff. I agree with everything you said—except for the death-penalty part, of course. But, otherwise.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T18:28:17-06:00

ID

89494

Comment

I thank you donna... And, I figured it would get lost in the other thread with so many replies, but powerful peice this week.

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2006-10-23T18:34:18-06:00

ID

89495

Comment

Thanks, Cliff. It seems to be the week for off-thread remarks. ;-) And to others—I should clarify that I don't believe in the death penalty for anyone—and that I'm not just saying that this student shouldn't get it. I know Cliff knew what I meant, but all you newcomers might not.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T18:39:13-06:00

ID

89496

Comment

Ladd, I read the JFP all the time and it quite apparent how you treat race. I also did look around and have read some of Ray's points and virtually everything goes back to race. As Ray has said, don't be blinded. Did I name call? I'm not sure of that law clerks point either but I was interested the questions regarding the issue. I found this. EAST LONDON, South Africa (Reuters) -- Zimbabwe, facing food shortages blamed partly on its large-scale seizures of white-owned farms, is considering allowing some interested whites to return to farming, a minister said. President Robert Mugabe's government has received more than 200 applications from whites to take up farming again, land minister Flora Buka said on Saturday during an agriculture conference in South Africa. "As regards white commercial farmers, there are some who have indicated that they would want to continue farming," Buka told Reuters. Asked if the government was still confiscating land from whites to redistribute to blacks, Buka said: "Yes, we are still resettling our people on the land that is state land." Many of Zimbabwe's white farmers have gone overseas or to other African countries after often violent land grabs backed by Mugabe, who initiated the redistribution program six years ago. Industry analysts say only about 600 of Zimbabwe's 4,500 white farmers have kept their land. Zimbabwe was once the breadbasket of the region and a net exporter of maize and other essential cereals to its neighbors. But food agencies say the departure of experienced white commercial farmers has cut into agricultural output and exposed Zimbabweans to persistent food shortages. Meanwhile, a severe economic crisis has led to a shortage of foreign currency and surging inflation of more than 1,000 percent annually. The U.N. World Food Program said last week 1.4 million Zimbabweans will need food aid in the next six months despite improved agricultural output last season. Mugabe's government has forecast production of 1.8 million tonnes of the staple maize, but food agencies, while acknowledging output has improved, predict a lower crop. The WFP said 10 percent of the country's estimated 12 million people would need aid before next April. Mugabe's government has defended its land program as necessary to reverse injustices of British colonial rule. As in other African countries, many blacks in Zimbabwe were forcibly removed from their land under colonialism, leaving white minorities holding most of the arable land.

Author

rpr

Date

2006-10-23T19:02:31-06:00

ID

89497

Comment

I'm sure you will just name call and say that me and Reuters are racist but I can live with it. As I have to work for the rest of the week, I will not have the time to check back but I know you guys won't call me names b/c Ladd would never resort to such.

Author

rpr

Date

2006-10-23T19:04:40-06:00

ID

89498

Comment

I read the JFP all the time and it quite apparent how you treat race. Good. There is no secret: We talk about race openly, freely and in a way that discomforts people of all races from time to time. We are very, very proud of that in this state. That won't change, so trying to use that fact as some sort of ill-defined weapon won't get you far in these parts, so don't waste your or my time. I very seldom name-call, rpr, but I do call people out on the way they engage in discussions here. That's my job: I'm. The. Moderator. Feel free to write the management if that's bothers you. ;-) Otherwise, thanks for the article, but I know a little bit about Zimbabwe's history and current problems. My point was that I'm not sure what Clerk's comment had to do with what we were discussing. I missed the link.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T19:13:32-06:00

ID

89499

Comment

rpr: I'm well aware of the murders in South Africa you speak of. But, please don't pretend to know anyone's heart on this board. They're not one-sided on race as you allude. Yes. Their views may be left of your center. In, fact most of their views are opposite of mine. But, you won't last long here with your tone. And, I hate to break it to you, but...I'll bet I'm right of your center.

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2006-10-23T19:15:52-06:00

ID

89500

Comment

Bet you are, too, Cliff. ;-) But I don't believe that "most of (our; whoever "our" is) views" are oppposite of yours. Guns, the death penalty maybe. A couple others. No matter, though. Thanks for continually proving that a variety of views are welcome on this site—but showing up just to act like a jerk is not.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T19:18:07-06:00

ID

89501

Comment

ladd: "Bet you are, too, Cliff. ;-) But I don't believe that "most of (our; whoever "our" is) views" are oppposite of yours. Guns, the death penalty maybe. A couple others..." I guess we prove your point a little at a time, don't we Donna?

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2006-10-23T19:29:26-06:00

ID

89502

Comment

Hell, I have more fun on here than I do on other sites. One thing I wish we had was a general message board. I belong to an LSU site that has a board called Tiger Alley. Its a tribute to "free speech alley" at LSU by the student union where on Fridays, you can get up there and say anything you want. Its a great tradition and alot of good heckling goes on too (especially for the preachers). On the alley we talk about everything, politics, sports, answer questions, BS back and forth, never know what will pop up. I wish we had that on here because the forums are very topic driven and there is not a board for us just to say hey ray, whats up or hey donna, or "what is the best _____ to go to for _____". I think it would tone down a little the confrontational nature of the threads. It would be alot of fun on here if we could do something similar.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-10-23T19:44:40-06:00

ID

89503

Comment

Also, that's not a full article you just posted, is it? When are y'all going to learn that you cannot do that. I'll go cut it down.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-23T20:00:35-06:00

ID

89504

Comment

Cliff writes: He should be put to death the same as any urban criminal from the hood. And, the press should treat him accordingly. If we're going to have a death penalty, then agreed--I mean, I'm not crazy about capital punishment, but if we're going to have it, then this is as obvious a case of capital murder as any I've seen. And someone should definitely do a master's thesis on the way press coverage of this murder differs from press coverage of a "thug" murdering a police officer. It's like night and day. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-10-23T20:07:52-06:00

ID

89505

Comment

You nailed it Tom. He's a THUG. Prosecute him as such. That's my take on it. Ride him as hard anyone else.

Author

Cliff Cargill

Date

2006-10-23T20:30:56-06:00

ID

89506

Comment

Cummings is toast! Sad all around!

Author

pikersam

Date

2006-10-23T21:18:17-06:00

ID

89507

Comment

I got lost in the "race is an issue" thread. As a father of teenagers & party to the officer killed, let me sum it in reality terms. The Officer was doing his job which is inherently dangerous, I did it for 1.5 years, Police are way underpaid. The driver was a) scared, b) stupid c) acting irrational, all signs of a typical young adult (read teenager). Everybody lost here. A family bit the dust and a young adult will view prison up close and personnel for a long time. This isn't an issue of race (though I agree it would be reported different), it's a sad tragedy of a panicked idiot that wound up in fatal consequences. Let the cards fall where they may.

Author

Doc Rogers

Date

2006-10-23T22:14:48-06:00

ID

89508

Comment

Doc writes: The driver was a) scared, b) stupid c) acting irrational, all signs of a typical young adult (read teenager). I understand this, but how does this make the student any different from the many young low-income black males indicted for capital murder who are a) scared, b) stupid, and c) acting irrational? I think that's the weird thing about all this. White kid kills a police officer, and it's such a sad tragedy that a moment's error can [etc.], but if a black kid kills a police officer, all I hear is "fry the thug" and "the streets aren't safe anymore." That's why race is an issue. It has nothing to do with the situation and everything to do with how folks are responding to it--in a way that's dramatically different from the way they respond to a young black man in the exact same situation. I gotta agree with Cliff here. If someone who drags a police officer 600 yards is not a thug, then nobody is. Peace, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-10-23T22:43:33-06:00

ID

89509

Comment

(600 feet, rather...)

Author

Tom Head

Date

2006-10-23T22:44:04-06:00

ID

89510

Comment

Tom, we discussed this story on a site that is very conservative. Everyone to a man wanted to fry the bastard. In fact, a common comment was punk rich boy should fry. No sympathy at all for him. I think you will find the people who favor capital punishment, and I am one of them, will favor it for this kid.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-10-23T22:56:09-06:00

ID

89511

Comment

First thing's first It's truly heartbreaking when a police officer is killed in the line of duty. Their wives and children simply has no guarantee they will ever see their husbund and father walk through the door again. I truly mourn for his wife and children - I simply have no other words for it. As for the guy who ran away from the speeding ticket and killed a police officer - I think murder is an appropriate charge. Captial murder, I don't think so (and wouldn't think so even if I were for the death penalty - which I am NOT). Even so, IMO, if there's any justice in this world, the student would get either 20 without parole or life with parole in 20. It doesn't matter what socio economic background they're from (notice the student is from Germantown, TN - the wealthiest suburb of Memphis, way wealthier than even Madison). He'd ONE HELL OF A LONG TIME behind bars if I had the power of a king in this matter, THAT'S for sure!!

Author

Philip

Date

2006-10-24T00:43:32-06:00

ID

89512

Comment

rpr and his supporters obviously don't know what race baiting is. Anyone who doesn't think race matters in capital murder cases is stupid and don't want to know the truth, and that the double truth whether you accept it or not. If South Africans are racist and have taken a little land from white folks (which I'm still not convinced of without hearing the whole story), and LawClerk thinks her race would be an issue there because of that one incident (not to mention Apartheid), why wouldn't a black person question whether he could get justice from white folks in the United States, especially the south, after 240 years of slavery and nearly a 100 years of Jim Crowism. I have seen many white folks swear there is no issue at all about whether whites can be fair to blacks and are scared to death when black folks are seated to decide their fate and liberty. I know many of you can't admit this and that makes the statement false in your view. Adding a little education and truth to an issue is not race baiting. This case involves the death penalty and research has clearly shown there are few issues larger than race when it involves the death penalty, the defendant is black, the victim is white, and the crime occurred in the south. There isn't a single death penalty defense lawyer or unbias death penalty expert anywhere who would deny this.This is fact, but I know you know more about this than I do or any expert in the filed because you're a white southerner or a white person. Recently, Corey Maye killed a cop and was convicted. This case possibly will get reversed and Maye acquitted some day due to the circumstances of the killing. Killing a cop trying to do his job is certainly a bad thing and it deserves punishment unless justified. The truth is the light and it will set you free.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-24T09:45:20-06:00

ID

89513

Comment

Ray: what Mugabe did was a carbon copy of what Stalin did with his forced collectivization of farms in the 1930's. It wasn't simply restribution. He took the farms that produced virtually all of the country's food supply and destroyed them and ran the owners off. This was not abotu getting even with Whites or rectifying a little injustice, it was the goal of a dictator running roughshod over all segments of society. Surprisingly enough, Zimbabwe suddenly had a famine problem, as Russia did. Mugabe is a thug and a tryant in the same mode as Stalin, just on a smaller scale. And yes, there were Blacks that criticized what Mugabe was doing as well.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-10-24T09:49:41-06:00

ID

89514

Comment

I meant death penalty expert in the "field." I hope y'all don't think I'm going to reach a point where I become blind too just to satisfy your denial. Have a good day my friends.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-24T09:50:31-06:00

ID

89515

Comment

I'm not trying to justify what Mugabe or any other black person anywhere in the world did. I'm writing about the death penalty which I happen to know a lot about since this is what I do for a living. Someone else brought in Africa or African.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-24T10:02:35-06:00

ID

89516

Comment

I know Ray. and I agree with you Ray. solution: execute more white criminals.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2006-10-24T10:06:10-06:00

ID

89517

Comment

I love it…Ladd “truly didn’t understand what race-ify meant” and then turns around exactly two minutes later and uses “race-ify” in perfectly good context in a sentence…Amazing!

Author

colby

Date

2006-10-24T10:06:27-06:00

ID

89518

Comment

It's actually not "amazing," Colby. It's a guess. And if you hadn't noticed, my usage was s-a-r-c-a-s-t-i-c. I don't know what "race-ify" means. It seems to be a constructed word used by people who do not want to ever, never, ever again discuss race in any context. But I don't know for sure. What was it LawClerk said? Look at things in a race-neutral way even if/when they're not race-neutral? Eek.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-24T10:23:35-06:00

ID

89519

Comment

And reading upward, I hope Fishy is being sarcastic, too, about the solution to racial disparities in executions, etc., is to execute more white people. Unfortunately, that has been exactly the result in many arenas where discriminatory policies are revealed: Just start applying them to white people, too, regardless of whether the policy makes sense, or does what the public thinks it does, in the first place. Zero-tolerance policies in schools are a primary example: They're used to discriminate against kids of color—and they are bad, and on the increase, for everyone. Of course, binary thinkers are going to have a hard time with that one. I apologize in advance.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-24T10:25:41-06:00

ID

89520

Comment

I'm mostly against executing anyone except for maybe mcVeigh and maybe a very few more. But if we're going to do it, let's be totally honest about why we do it, and let's not take so much time before doing it. I and many others would still try to stop it, but I could live with it being done in a more just manner. I think. This is a harder topic than many would admit too. Do we feel the same way about executing our relatives and love ones as we do stangers. I have seen people totally change their minds after having a relative or love one involved in a capital case too.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-24T10:29:55-06:00

ID

89521

Comment

Reading up more: Doc, I can't agree that this cat was acting like "typical" teenager—this reminds me a little of the Jasper, Texas, incident without the white supremacy. What kind of person, with what kind of upbringing and values, drags a human being for 10 feet, much less 600 or more? And then he abandoned his truck and left the scene, right? Typical? Really? Again, any fool can see that no one is saying this case is about race. But it is an opportunity to keep our eyes open and monitor whether or not this young man is/has been treated differently by the media/authorities/citizens than young black "thugs" would be in his case. And it's a great chance for comparison, so that that perhaps we can learn something going forward about societal views toward people from different backgrounds. There is nothing wrong with doing that, and it in no way takes away from the severity of this crime or the compassion toward the families. Also, it's one thing for people to say now (in response to this dialogue perhaps) that they believe this young man should be treated the same, etc. But I do remember recent cases where there was a lot more conversation about the "tragedy" of a young white man committing a heinous crime (such as that drunk kid at the reservoir kidding those five kids, which is just as serious as this) than talk about what would drive someone to be so irresponsible, cold, impulsive, etc. Meantime, the conversations about young black criminals inevitably focuses vicious blame on their families, their communities, their schools and so on—masking yet another way to be racist for a lot of people, even if they don't know it. This has become a good discussion of these issues, and I apologize if they makes some of you uncomfortable. Topics too little discussed are uncomfortable. Carry on.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-24T10:40:16-06:00

ID

89522

Comment

Oh, and great comments, Ray. You're in your element on this one. I'll step back and allow you to keep pricking consciousness and asking the hard questions. I've got a paper to put out, anyway.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-24T10:41:25-06:00

ID

89523

Comment

Thanks Donna, but I'm stepping out of this one. I can't help those who don't want to be helped and can't be honest to even with themselves. Some people can only see race matters when they see or hear me although I'm much more complicated and beyond race than any of them can fathom or will admit to. I know the deal and constantly have to snare down jurors and other court personnels much worse than these bloggers are. It's a constant search for ingenuity and stealth means to make bias (not limited to race) jurors de-select themselves from jury duty on capital cases. Despite the foregoing, most jurors are good people and will try to do the right thing. Everyone hates it when someone is killed unjustifiably. The hate and anger is at its greatest when it's a police officer. I understand and feel the same way too. However, I have to be open-minded to do what I do, and I believe I would be open-minded if I didn't do this kind of work.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2006-10-24T11:20:32-06:00

ID

89524

Comment

Well, I did notice that none of the major news stations created a "Is fraternity row safe" poll last night. Unless I missed it.

Author

emilyb

Date

2006-10-24T13:09:40-06:00

ID

89525

Comment

Touche, Em. I'm still waiting for the what-is-it-about-suburbs-that-creates-murderers story, too.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2006-10-24T13:11:22-06:00

ID

89526

Comment

I'm still waiting for the what-is-it-about-suburbs-that-creates-murderers story, too. Ladd Could be the young thugs like these guys!

Author

pikersam

Date

2006-10-24T14:23:39-06:00

ID

89527

Comment

Some of you adults (I'm assuming you are all adults) need to grow up and stop playing childish games. Stop arguing with each other on the internet. It's not doing anyone any good, and it's putting the state of Mississippi to shame. It's bad enough we have the reputation we do, being a state that proudly (horribly) wanted to keep African Americans in bondage, picking cottons on plantations. Mississippi wanted to continue to discriminate.. and sure, as a second year Ole Miss student, I am VERY AWARE of the fact that the fraternities and sororities are segregated. It's no secret. I am not a member of the organizations due to the horrible reputations they have had and continue to have to this day. The typical Ole Miss boy/girl drinks too much, swears too much, claims to be a Christian, has wealthy parents, and shows up to class hung-over. It's true, and everyone knows it. Let me be the one to say, however, that race isn't an issue with this situation. The police officer was white. The frat boy was white. The witnesses were, you guessed it, white. There's no reason for yall to even be arguing about whether or not the Africans suppressed white people or vice versa. It doesn't matter. The situation at hand is that a man was dragged to his death from our campus to Jackson Street, and the boy did not stop. No one has proven that he was drunk, high, sleep-deprived, mentally unstable, etc. No one has proven it; the tests have not come in. The police officer was doing his job, the boy made a horrible decision (I do not think it was a mistake), and two lives have been lost. The thing that everyone needs to focus on is keeping the memory of the police officer alive and strong, and preventing any similar situations from happening again. okay.. so.. all of you, please grow up. go watch Leno, eat some pizza, and go to bed, and stop worrying about whether the last person who posted had a typo or not.

Author

JulieKate

Date

2006-10-24T21:10:00-06:00

ID

89528

Comment

uh oh.. i just reread my post. The situations in Africa do matter.. it just doesn't apply to the story about the Ole Miss student and the police officer. I apologize for the error.

Author

JulieKate

Date

2006-10-24T21:12:54-06:00

ID

89529

Comment

Some of you adults (I'm assuming you are all adults) need to grow up and stop playing childish games. Stop arguing with each other on the internet. JulieKate, with due respect, you are *way* out of line coming here lecturing people like some pissy mama hen. As the moderator and owner of this site, allow me to repeat myself in a way that perhaps our more reading-challenged new posters might under: NO ONE IS SAYING RACE WAS INVOLVED IN THIS CASE. Take a pill, and go re-read before you ever think about lecturing someone again on my site. As far as embarassing the state, I assure you that it is far more shameful that there are those who freak out at any mention of race in a public forum. And if you don't like the converation about how media cover criminals differently, which is actually quite intereresting and necessary if you'd bother to listen without freaking out at mentions of race, you might figure that out. But, understand: No more lectures and goofy attempts at condescension if you want to continue to post on this site. It's not your place.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2006-10-24T22:00:09-06:00

ID

89530

Comment

Why did this student run off? I suspect he was either drunk, had drugs in the car, or both. Has any heard anything about drugs and/or alcohol? I don't know who "Farese" is. Please enlighten. HDMatthias

Author

HDMatthias, MD

Date

2006-10-24T22:29:55-06:00

ID

89531

Comment

HDMatthias-- From what I understand, Steve Farese of Farese, Farese & Farese has the reputation of being one of the best criminal defense lawyers practicing in North Mississippi and Tennessee.

Author

Ex

Date

2006-10-25T08:43:58-06:00

ID

89532

Comment

uh oh.. i just reread my post. The situations in Africa do matter.. it just doesn't apply to the story about the Ole Miss student and the police officer. I apologize for the error. Yeah, someone posted the Zimbabwe article to prove a point, but in turn they proved something else if you look at the last part of it: Mugabe's government has defended its land program as necessary to reverse injustices of British colonial rule. As in other African countries, many blacks in Zimbabwe were forcibly removed from their land under colonialism, leaving white minorities holding most of the arable land. Think about it: a continent where the citizens were either taken away for free labor or run off their own land, and it didn't just happen in Africa. Now, I don't agree with Mugabe's actions since I don't like the whole tit-for-tat thing, but I can see what drove him to do it. I don't know who "Farese" is. Please enlighten. I've heard of them when I worked for the state. I wish they would just call themselves Farese Law like their Web address. Saying Farese, Farese and Farese leaves a lot of spittle on the lower lip. :-P

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-10-25T09:49:48-06:00

ID

89533

Comment

Could be the young thugs like these guys! Pike, if you start a separate thread on that alone, I believe it will blow up worse than this one. Dare ya.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2006-10-25T09:54:52-06:00

ID

89534

Comment

To TH, no, His actions are not atypical of a 15 to 21 year old male, white or black. Yes, I agree, it's being reported way different. It's why I read "Alternative Press", blogs. Reality, he pleads manslaughter gets 20, 5 suspended. Still doesn't help the officers family. Yes, if he was a black kid, capitol murder would probably stick and nobody would blink an eye. I could extol on my opinions why I think fatherless ness is the bane of young youth, but I guess I'd be labeled a racist by Donna . And yes, I think black youth are treated worse by the law and yes, it makes me sad when I see a young black man dragged off for 10 to 30 for some stupid action committed in the moment. I think, "that could have been the next greatest scientist, musician, ...." To Donna, you must not be familiar with teenagers. Somewhere between 12 & 20, testosterone makes them loose their mind. I have two of my own. Despite their upbringing, all I can do is try to prevent them from a "life changing event". Why he ran, left his truck, despite his upbringing? Probably because of it. The crush of guilt/stupidity/failure made him panicked? A drug/DUI charge looked larger in the moment than the result of what happended. Now he faces the reality. Ciou And one last note, gauging by the water cool conversation,

Author

Doc Rogers

Date

2006-10-25T22:36:15-06:00

ID

89535

Comment

Doc Rogers, your post is a little confusing and disorganized. When this case does come down it will be an interesting test for Oxford. A few years ago a girl was killed when an underage drunk driver wheeled out of a local bar and plowed through her car. He was many times over the legal limit. He had his time suspended and only briefly saw the inside of a jail cell. The judge was not up for reelection and the perp had a great lawyer. This case however involves a dead cop, and mostly likely intent. Even with Steve Farese, this kid is probally looking at a long time in jail, at least.

Author

E

Date

2006-10-30T12:09:05-06:00

ID

89536

Comment

I don't know who saw it; but, the Ledge posted a story the other day saying that Farese is claiming that the officer and the defendant may have scuffled inside the window of the car. They are seeking video from cameras in the area. Sometimes defense attorneys make your stomach turn.... yuck! Story includes mugshot goodness!

Author

pikersam

Date

2006-11-03T11:24:47-06:00