Jackson Free Press

Another white politician gets foot-in-mouth disease again as Sen Joe Biden called Presidential hopeful Barak Obama "clean" and "articulate" In fact, he said Obama was the first African American candidate who WASN'T inarticulate. Whaaaaa?

I have to say I feel Obama's pain. If one more older person white or black tells me after a speech, interview, or presentation that I "speak so well" or "You're SO articulate" or the infamous "I didn't know you were sooo intelligent" I'm gonna scream! I've long since stopped being offended at such crass remarks. Partially because the speaker rarely is TRYING to be offensive. BUT...when the program calls for a "rapper" to speak, are you REALLY expecting somthing bad to happen? I mean why the hell are they even having me speak in the first place?

It happened when I was keynote speaker at the State NAACP conference and again as I debated at a symposium at Millsaps with one of their tenured professors. Those are just the most recent ones! After both hordes of folks hit me with those same comments. I just smiled and nodded, thanking them while all the while thinking "OF COURSE I SPEAK WELL JACK-ASS"

Stereotypes aside, it's starting to get old and Barak...get ready because you're going to hear it more and more. I mean before these principals even let me come into the schools to talk to kids(even after ALL the articles, TV, and references) I still have to ease their minds by showing off my resume, my education etc. (I HATE having to do that). Why can't I just be someone who wants to make a difference...like Barak? And just what exactly do you mean I'm "Articulate"
Please Help!!!!! LOL

Previous Comments

ID

110290

Comment

If only I had a nickel... BTW...the majority of rappers that Ive met speak well and are intelligent men and women...A few dummies..but they're in the minority. And so it goes with African-Americans...Stereotypes suck

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-05T17:50:01-06:00

ID

110291

Comment

Yeah, I hear you, Kaze. There is little more condescending than such comments. Biden is chewing all his toes off. I think he probably has a decent heart in there, but he is way too grounded in privilege to truly empathize with people who have had fewer opportunities along the way. Sad, but typical.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T17:53:54-06:00

ID

110292

Comment

Oh, and the "clean" part is disgusting. Sounds like something a Citizen's Councilor, or an N-Jammer, would say. Icky.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T17:54:29-06:00

ID

110293

Comment

11 years as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago, civil rights attorney at one of the country's leading law firms, grassroots organizer, editor of the Harvard Law Review, state senator, U.S. senator...and he's "clean, bright, and articulate"? I am disgusted that Joe Biden not only hasn't dropped out of the race yet, but hasn't even issued a convincing apology for his remarks. He has now achieved a 1.2 on the Trent Lott scale, IMHO, because at least Lott apologized--and was flattering an old man on his 100th birthday, which is a much less self-serving context. With Biden, it's more like a George Allen thing. And it's not Biden's first racist remark. And he never apologized for the earlier ones, either. Joe Biden needs a friend to tap him on the shoulder and whisper in his little white ear that he is not presidential material and that, unless he is graciously appointed secretary of state by the person who kicks his ass in the primaries, he holds the highest political rank he will ever hold. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-05T17:56:54-06:00

ID

110294

Comment

One more thing, though. This is a tangent, being that it doesn't negate anything Biden said. One issue on the rap front is when rappers (or anyone else) sell themselves as inarticulate in their music and appearances in front of fans, and then when they show up somewhere for a serious forum, talk very intelligently. There's a certain amount of getting a dose of the medicine you created in that. I'm not saying you do that, but I know some well-known rappers who do. That's not helping anything, and just encouraging a contempt for education.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T17:56:57-06:00

ID

110295

Comment

soooooooooooo since there have been quite a few posts on this site praising Biden, what is the take on him now?

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:02:36-06:00

ID

110296

Comment

King, are you listening!?! I just compared him to a Citizens' Councilor and an N-Jammer—not exactly folks on the top of my list of good citizens. What the hell do you think the take is on him "now"? He's digging himself a privileged little hole that he needs to go hide in.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T18:05:01-06:00

ID

110297

Comment

look at it this way: Those probably were not his thoughts, he probably plagerized them from somebody.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:05:29-06:00

ID

110298

Comment

Of course, that's only my take, but Tom has been lambasting him for months now, as have others.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T18:05:42-06:00

ID

110299

Comment

Okay, moving on to the hip-hop issue... Kaze, I have to admit that after I hear you rapping about how someone ain't hard and is about to get his head busted to the white meat, about hitting people in the skull with bottles, and so on and so forth, I don't expect you to turn around and explain geopolitical divisions in Iraq. You are a very, very complex person--the badass rapper Kamikaze and the former AP reporter Brad Franklin--and it doesn't surprise me that people have a hard time figuring you out. Is there a racist component in this dynamic sometimes? I have no doubt--if you say there is, there is. That's good enough for me. You'd be the one who knows. But I will say that for me, I do see a persona clash between your lyrics and who you are outside of those lyrics. It reminds me (forgive the comparison) of how Britney Spears used to gyrate in bikini tops on stage singing about sexual adventures, then give interviews saying that she was still a virgin. I never had trouble believing that, either, but it was hard to relate the two. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-05T18:05:50-06:00

ID

110300

Comment

My apologies. I just read the entire thread. I was thinking of the story you guys did on him and that thread. Ouch. That slap on the wrist hurt. by the way, hope you guys enjoyed the king cake. I had a couple left over today after seeing clients. My doc next door to you got one, you guys got the other.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:06:59-06:00

ID

110301

Comment

Are we talking content or diction(delivery)? Because I often use slang and colloquialisms in my verses. Hell Ebonics if you wish. Talking to the homies is much different than "speaker" Kaze! that's where I'd cut rappers a little slack. Its kinda hard to rap in perfect english! This coming from a Mass comm major, English minor/son of an english teacher/rapper...so to speak

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-05T18:08:35-06:00

ID

110302

Comment

Fish, I gotta agree with Donna re: how we've dealt with Biden, by the way. Some of us liked him before he made the remark (for good reason; he's brilliant on foreign policy, for starters), and I didn't (for reasons that had nothing to do with the racist remark, since he hadn't made it yet), but we all roasted him afterwards. Some folks gave him more slack on the earlier anti-Indian remark than I did, but all of us were bothered by it. I think it's safe to say that the JFP will not be endorsing Joe Biden in the Democratic primaries, to put it somewhat mildly. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-05T18:09:53-06:00

ID

110303

Comment

"You are a very, very complex person--the badass rapper Kamikaze and the former AP reporter Brad Franklin--" ...WOW...you sound like my mom LOL..and several of my former instructors and ex-girlfriends.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-05T18:14:03-06:00

ID

110304

Comment

I was stunned Biden spent so much time talking about Stennis' desk when Donna interviewed him. It turned out it wasn't the desk of Stennis that he admired so much, it's the Stennis philosophy. He, he he. I believe he also said he wanted the votes of those guys displaying rebel flags. He may have already succeeded at getting those. The thing that has always irked me so much is the comment by old whites men to me, "You're a credit to your race." I'm always tempted to say, "So are you, sir" but I haven't done it yet. I'm too nice to old white men trying haphazardly to shake of their Mississippi breeding. Kaze, some of you colored are articulate and a credit to your race and music genre.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T18:15:14-06:00

ID

110305

Comment

Rousseau: I stand corrected.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:16:33-06:00

ID

110306

Comment

I just lost a comment to Kingfish, but suffice it to say that I had declared that I don't fall on my sword for any politician. None of 'em. They frack up, or show themselves to be someone different than they pretended, they're on their own. Now, I will disagree with Ray slightly. I liked Dean's comment, and I like it in other politicians, that they should get the votes of the guys with the Confederate flags. The problem is in how those comments are interpreted by irresponsible media and campaign opponents. They weren't saying that they wanted the racist vote. They were saying that they want to speak directly to uneducated, not-rich whites who share the same more populist (non-race-related) concerns as other Democrats. I think they're right, and that's forward-thinking. In other words, they're trying to transcend the southern strategy and find what people have in common. I'm down with that. Now, the way not to communicate that is by seeing that a black presidential candidate is "clean."

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T18:19:37-06:00

ID

110307

Comment

"Kaze, some of you colored are articulate and a credit to your race and music genre." Funny...but sad. That's EXACTLY what I feel like their saying. And Donna, playing Devil's advocate here. No one tells good ole guv Arnold that he's articulate after 2 Conan movies and 3 Terminators. hmmmm? wait until you hear em speak before you judge. That's all Im sayin

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-05T18:21:35-06:00

ID

110308

Comment

That was how I took Dean's comments. I think its a crowd he is not familiar with and he was following the media stereotypes. I took his point to mean that the Dems shouldn't write off whole segments of the population.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:22:57-06:00

ID

110309

Comment

I'm agreeing with you first and foremost, Kaze. I've experienced some of the same stuff as a woman and certainly as a southerner—people in the Ivy League, for instance, assuming I'm not as smart, don't know what's going on in the world, or even thinking I'm racist because I'm a white southerner. Stereotypes suck, and need to be called out. However, I do think there is an afterthought to it worth talking about. Certainly, if I presented myself in certain public ways as very inarticulate, then it would be hard for me to have complete credibility when I complained that people, in turn, think I'm inarticulate. In fact, an intriguing metaphor is our state and our devotion to the Confederate emblem in the flag. We vote to keep it, and we get mad when people think we're racist. Uh, well.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T18:25:22-06:00

ID

110310

Comment

I'm all for reaching the disenfranchised whether they got rebel flags or not on their trucks or in their hearts. Some of them have been very nice to me. I still don't trust them though. I'm all for dismantling the southern strategy. If that happened I might even get me a rebel flag. To burn though.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T18:27:28-06:00

ID

110311

Comment

I've burned a few rebel flags believe it or not.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:30:17-06:00

ID

110312

Comment

Yep, agreed, Ray. I don't think anyone is saying that everyone should start trusting people with a devotion to financed rebel flags (other than the need to hang them in a museum or such). I can't think of one that I would trust, at least off the bat. It shows either ignorance, a willingness to kowtow to our worst instincts or pure racism. But I hated how Edwards, Sharpton, etc., twisted what Howard Dean said back then. It was intellectually dishonest, and it was a cheap way to try to attack his popularity. It's a main reason I would have a hard time voting for Edwards. I don't like candidates who play us for fools. There are other reasons not to vote for Sharpton as well, although he gives a fine speech, and serves a needed purpose.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T18:32:01-06:00

ID

110313

Comment

I've burned a few rebel flags believe it or not. ... and I never have, believe it or not. ;-) OK, maybe in a rhetorical sense.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T18:33:47-06:00

ID

110314

Comment

Kaze: Here is a story I came across in 225 you might enjoy reading. http://www.225batonrouge.com/news/2007/jan/31/imperfect-samaritan/

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:38:04-06:00

ID

110315

Comment

I had some out of state friends in my office a couple of months ago. They were getting a favorable impression of Mississippi until they saw the flag. They then got angry and said, more or less, f mississippi. I understand their feelings. However, Im tired of fighting. The majority of the people of the state knows what's best for Mississippi and me. I need some friends since I plan to stay here. The best way to do that is to get with the program. Consequently, from this point forward, I will stop bad-mouthing the State of Mississippi, its past, present and future. Maybe the powers that be will now throw me some crumbs and I can live happily ever after. I'm joining up with the North Jammers or whomever will have a quiet and don't-want-any-trouble Negro. I wish y'all well. I'm out. Finally, "I'm too weak to fight" as Clarence Carter said.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T18:47:15-06:00

ID

110316

Comment

Damn good story 'Fish. thanks. you guys should read it.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-05T18:51:13-06:00

ID

110317

Comment

well Ray, I will say this: Dixie was Lincoln's favorite song. After the surrender was signed, he had the band play it in the Rose Garden. He said it was his favorite song, the AG said he owned it now, and then had them play it. SO you do have an out for that song anyway. Lincoln said it was ok.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:51:58-06:00

ID

110318

Comment

glad you liked it. 225 is a great magazine and literally flies off the racks every month when it comes out. Very well put together magazine. They do some good stories every issue.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T18:54:56-06:00

ID

110319

Comment

Hmmm. I'm gonna disagree with Donna on a technicality here; I share her disdain for Edwards, but I also hated Dean's comment primarily because I completely disagree with what it represents. We don't need to be the party of the guy with a rebel flag on his pickup. We need to be the party of the overworked inner-city single mother with kids to feed, and if we happen to get a few guys with rebel flags on their pickups in that process, God bless 'em, but that should not be our primary demographic. I don't think we'll win elections by looking for unity. I think we'll win elections by standing up for the right thing in a compelling way. The truth is that both of our Democratic presidents of the past 30 years were Southern Strategy veterans--white Southern Baptist governors who got elected governor by convincing rural whites they weren't a threat, then got elected president by doing much the same thing. I find that approach incredibly uninspiring. Did Ronald Reagan win 49 states by being a moderate? No. He won 49 states by being a conservative firebrand, and it has fed the right wing ever sense. We need to do the same thing with left-wing values, and abandon the Bill Clinton model of winning elections. We need a candidate who is as compelling as Reagan and, lucky for us, we have one. His name is Barack Obama. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-05T18:57:26-06:00

ID

110320

Comment

Some things are just plain weird. I hate the song, Dixie. Whenever I hear it I vicariously see Paul Ott who I have equal feelings toward. Now, I love the music to "Sweet Home Alabama." I even saw a black band playing it one time without using the words in a club. The first time I heard those beaitiful guitar and piano duelings I could barely be still. I bought the album with the song on it. My ear is so tuned to the music that I don't hear the lyrics. Dixie could be alright if you're not dreaming about raping or molesting my momma or sister, making my daddy and granddaddy work for free, or making my momma care for your children while she ignores her own. I got range, King, and I'm super-bad.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T19:02:02-06:00

ID

110321

Comment

And by the way, I know Obama talks about unity. So did Reagan. But both are very direct and unapologetic about the kind of country they want to live in, and it isn't a centrist vision in either case. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-05T19:02:03-06:00

ID

110322

Comment

Ray, FWIW, I much prefer "The Battle Hymn of the Republic." I like the tune of "Dixie"--I was raised white, what do you expect?--but I hate what it stands for. I would love it if it were redone with new lyrics as an ALF anthem or something. It's very easy to rhyme "Well, ol' Jeff Davis has died and rotten" with the phrase "pickin' cotton," if someone's feeling inspired. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-05T19:08:50-06:00

ID

110323

Comment

I HATE Skynard. Totally hate Skynard. That song to me is the redneck anthem. Not Dixie but Sweet Home Alabama. Ray: you might have range but you aint got game.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T19:11:11-06:00

ID

110324

Comment

Dixie could be alright if you're not dreaming about raping or molesting my momma or sister, making my daddy and granddaddy work for free, or making my momma care for your children while she ignores her own. I got range, King, and I'm super-bad. I don't think any fight is gone out of you, brother. King, I'm white, and I can't stand "Dixie." It tells the world that we white folk are less than we can be. I do kinda dig "Sweet Home," I have to admit. Gotta love the line, "We all did what we could do."

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T19:19:32-06:00

ID

110325

Comment

I just like the song itself in and of itself. I think its a very pretty tune. Having said that, I can understand why some may not like it the same as I can understand why Jews are not too crazy about Wagner. Its always a shame when good music is misappropriated by others.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T19:21:10-06:00

ID

110326

Comment

The music in that song "Sweet Home Alabama" is great. Any musician will tell you that. I don't know the words and won't learn them. I know it a redneck song. I played it once with Rob McDuff in my car. He was stunned. I told him I loved the music. It's the only song I will listen to that the group made. You may not beleive I can listen to the song w/o hearing the lyrics but I can. I ain't got no game. Ask the young boys I injured myself playing basketball with 6 monts ago. I'm old now. i say what i mean and mean wht i say, most of the time.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T19:21:56-06:00

ID

110327

Comment

Am I crazy, or didn't a black man write the music for "Dixie"? Be honest, Ray: You also yank chains to see what kind of reaction you get. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T19:28:36-06:00

ID

110328

Comment

ask the young boys? Reminds me of Deacon Jones on Rome a couple of years ago. Was playing sandlot football and knocked out cold as in unconcious some 20 year old guy that was talking smack and saying he was going to kick Deacon's azz and get to his qb. When Deacon blocked him, he used that good old forearm as an uppercut like they used to do. And bragged about it on the air. hehe.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T19:29:25-06:00

ID

110329

Comment

Donna; From Wikipedia: Main article: "Dixie (song)" "I Wish I Was in Dixie's Land" Sheet music"I Wish I Was in Dixie" is a popular song about the South. It was written by composer Daniel Emmett, a Northerner, and published in 1859. A blackface minstrel-show troupe debuted the song that same year in New York City. As with other minstrel show numbers, the song was performed in blackface and in exaggerated Black English Vernacular. The song proved extremely popular and became widely known simply as "Dixie". The song has also been published as "Dixie's Land".

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T19:32:02-06:00

ID

110330

Comment

Yeah, I was joking. I do yank chains or as I like to call it draw people in or run them out, especially with some of my favorites. I do it in fun and love most of the time, and I'm often surprised and occasionally overjoyed by the responses. I'm rarely truly offended, injured or bothered. Some of my favorite responses have come from Kate, Laurel and Pike. Pike has wanted to curse me out a few times. Even King has gotten riled a few times. I do try not to go overboard and be disrespectful. I heard a black man wrote the music or lyrics. If it's true he was brainwashed, had just suffered another beat-down, had been castrated, emaculated, or hated himself and black folks. Moreover, if it true, the brother had to be a slave, mentally or physically.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T19:39:25-06:00

ID

110331

Comment

Icky. Kaze won't like this statement, but one criticism of songs that use poor grammar could be that it is a newer form of using "black English vernacular." Don't jump me for saying that, Kaze, as I'm rather playing devil's advocate now, too, for the sake of thought and talk. But it is something to consider. Otherwise, I've got a book at home that talks about the origin of the song, and there's some connection with a black man. I swear. I'll try to remember to look tonight and report back. Thanks for the cake, King. I made Brian try it before I ate any, though. ;-) Seriously, everyone jumped on it. And Adam's boy came through at the end of the day and polished it off. We appreciate it!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T19:39:59-06:00

ID

110332

Comment

Came from Randazzos in N.O. they make the best. My clients love them. THey are addictive. I already have two in my fridge so you got lucky. Have an apple cream cheese ready to open. WHo got the baby? There is a connection with Black man. wikipedia has a section on it. Apparently the person who is meant to be singing the song is a free Black man who was born in the South and misses it. Song was used in minstrel Black face skits all the time.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T19:47:40-06:00

ID

110333

Comment

Don't send me any cake, King. I won't eat it. It's gonna take a bullet to take me down. I'm gone for today.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T19:48:00-06:00

ID

110334

Comment

I missed the South too when I was gone for 12 years. But it was my family, love ones, friends, family owned land. Not ole miss or ole piss as I like to call it. The brother who sung that song in a show couldn't have been talking about good ole Massa, battered Miss. Anne or the cotton fields or work utensils or mules and horse that belonged to Massa.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-05T19:53:54-06:00

ID

110335

Comment

Nientara, our events editor, got the baby. Which is great because she has her first local art show Friday. ;-) No, there is a specific black man. Not just about black men. We all know that it's about black men, and not in a good way.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-05T19:54:30-06:00

ID

110336

Comment

considering I am going down to Mandeville this week and coming back Thursday and bringing back some more of them, I can accomodate her. I'm sure ya'll are good for the 15 bucks. ;-) flavor?

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-02-05T19:58:03-06:00

ID

110337

Comment

Grammar is a social convention. Some of the smartest people I know don't always make their subject and verb agree, and they're well aware of the fact that they don't, and they don't care, and, increasingly, neither do I. The truth is that there are some elements of the King's English that don't make a whole heck of a lot of sense. "Up whom are you looking?," for example, is the correct way to ask somebody which name they're looking up in the phone book. I think everybody should know their grammar because it is a social stratification identifier and you have more power if you know how to speak multiple dialects--it's just like being multilingual in any other context--but the grammar in Kaze's tracks doesn't bother me and the dialect doesn't bother me. What would make me think he might not be a really brilliant speaker to bring to a school event, if I didn't know him from here, would be the violent and macho imagery of the lyrics. People who beat each other's brains out (which is what "white meat" is a reference to--literally, visible brain tissue) are not generally known for being all that smart. I'm not saying this makes the songs evil or anything--hell, one of Johnny Cash's characters shot a man in Reno just to watch him die--but macho and violent people are incredibly stupid and shortsighted. Kaze is not. Course, he's not some macho and violent fistfighter, either--he's an intellectual and a social chameleon who could speak convincingly at First Baptist in a collar or look too tough to mess with in Compton, and probably go from one persona to the other without even having to think about it--but whenever you play a character, there's the risk of typecasting. Likewise, it'd floor people if I rapped a Kaze track because that's not consistent with my persona, which is (I hope) androgynous and nonviolent. I'm not as complicated a person, I don't think, as Kaze is. But then I'm not multilingual, either. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-05T20:05:35-06:00

ID

110338

Comment

Kaze, I heard about the issue on TV, and I actually discussed this very issue on another website several months ago. I understand your point because I hate it when my ability to speak is considered a pleasant surprise. To put a spin on it, I get irritated when I tell someone I have no children and they look surprised. Is it a mandate for me to be a baby momma or something? I guess they think that since I'm in my thirties, I should have about five kids by now. Ironically, I'm watching Tyra now, and the topic is about people who hate their ethnicity and and their own race in general. There's a man on now who says he's a white man trapped in a black man's body. Sad.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-02-05T22:23:40-06:00

ID

110339

Comment

Reminds me, I wonder what old Edward is up to these days. Must be 80 by now.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2007-02-05T22:28:23-06:00

ID

110340

Comment

It's a strange mix I do confess..The flag issue makes a great point Donna but on the other hand..REGARDLESS of what a perception might be in my music..or anyone's music. Each individual should have the opportunity to impress or not impress on his/her own. kinda like the old (and Donna won't like this one) she wears a short skirt, stiletto heels, and talks like a sailor so she must be a...Of course you will say that regardless of a women's way of dress or how she carries herself that doesnt give men the right to assume or rake advantage...right? Well "I make the same point for rappers. Its dunny because its not even a race issue...It kills me that a lot of BLACK folks say this often. There is that assumption within the race as well. Its a decided difference, I think at least, between poor grammar and slang or ebonics. But LORD ive been speaking at schools, and to elementary kids at that, and had the teacher tell me to make sure I don't curse! WTF?!?!?! Do you not think, even at its worst that a rapper doesnt know NOT to curse in certain situations DAMN!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-06T11:15:49-06:00

ID

110341

Comment

and i meant "take" not rake obviously

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-06T11:16:49-06:00

ID

110342

Comment

ut the grammar in Kaze's tracks doesn't bother me and the dialect doesn't bother me. Oh, it doesn't me, either. It's important to know that I'm talking for the sake of discussion and thinking it through on this one. You know when I'm passionate about an issue! This one is brain calisthenics. ;-) Kaze, your point about women is interesting, and harks back to our earlier discussions about misogyny in lyrics. Certainly, if you're arguing that you guys shouldn't be stereotyped because of the way you dress and rap in your music, then you should at least agree that women shouldn't be stereotyped as "hos" because of the way they dress and act in public. Maybe that's exactly what you're doing, which I respect. I suppose there still, though, could be a difference that comes down to choice and cultural upbringing. If you're talking about an educated rapper who raps ebonics to sell records, but knows better, and young women who aren't educated and haven't had the same opportunities, then there could easily be a distinction. Just thinking out loud here, nothing more. Probably need more coffee first, though, before I'm very coherent. ;-) And it's press day, so I'll let y'all have it for today. Ciao.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-02-06T11:33:16-06:00

ID

110343

Comment

Latasha writes: To put a spin on it, I get irritated when I tell someone I have no children and they look surprised. Is it a mandate for me to be a baby momma or something? I guess they think that since I'm in my thirties, I should have about five kids by now. Insane! I know it's worse for women, but I still remember a flame I got when I was in my early twenties that included a line to the effect of "When I was your age, I was married with five kids. What the hell are YOU doing with your life?" You know, if someone is having kids because they're considered old enough to BREED, it seems to me that's the wrong reason! If my numbers are right (and they probably aren't), there are already close to 100,000 kids put into the foster care system every year. I mean, jeez, enough already... Which goes back to my philosophy that kids should be considered a precious gift, and not the punishment leveled against you when you become an adult, or have sex, or what have you. If I had Melton's big scary helicopter, I'd use it to sprinkle condoms all over the city like some sexually fixated Santa Claus. Ironically, I'm watching Tyra now, and the topic is about people who hate their ethnicity and and their own race in general. There's a man on now who says he's a white man trapped in a black man's body. Sad. Agreed... I encounter the "black people who hate black people" vibe so much, and it kills me. How do I respond to stuff like "I know you're all right because you're white, but I don't trust those people" when it comes out of the mouth of somebody who's black? What am I going to do, call him a racist? There has been an awful lot of study done on the idea of the self-hating Jew, not so much on the idea of the self-hating black, but I think the latter is a much more widespread phenomenon. And small wonder--we live in a culture that, to put it mildly, does not attach much prestige to being black. I can't be sure, if I were born black, that I'd be able to resist the temptation to live an easier life by being one of "the good ones." Upper-class white society rewards blacks who do this and punishes blacks who don't, and there have been times in my life when I was probably part of the problem without meaning to be. Working on it, though. Cheers, TH

Author

Tom Head

Date

2007-02-06T12:40:40-06:00

ID

110344

Comment

Kamikaze smells good too. Were they surprised by that? I want cake. It's much like the "She's pretty for a black girl" when describing Janet or Beyonce'. HUH? I guess it's a lot like being pretty for a fat girl. I still wish Kamikaze had called him jackass just for fun. And I still want cake. Tomorrow is Monkey's birthday. I also get the language of the music and the language of speaking. Being an English major does that to us, and we're right. All bets were off in MY word choices right after reading The Canterbury Tales.

Author

emilyb

Date

2007-02-06T12:53:05-06:00

ID

110345

Comment

And one more time. Where's MY CAKE?!?

Author

emilyb

Date

2007-02-06T12:53:38-06:00

ID

110346

Comment

Exactly my point Donna, you got it. Just saying lets be fair across the board. I agree with ending that assumption with women but, we've got to be equally willing to end it against rappers as well.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-06T13:00:19-06:00

ID

110347

Comment

Kamikaze, I am a little surprised at the reaction of people to what Biden said. I think some people are relating it to something that may have happenned to them where they felt that way. I saw him say those words before the controversy and I really did not have a problem with it. He almost looked liked he was an Obama groupie or something. I think intent is very important in the interpretation of things. I didnt see an ill intent in what he said. It reminds me of when you tell someone they look nice today and they respond, "Well, how do I look every other day?' So, its easy to see how some people take something meant as a compliment as opposed to an insult. My last point on the issue is that when you react this way, you give credibility to the belief that an articulate blk person is uncommon. If someone told you that you were a good rapper or that you wrote well, I don't see you taking it that negatively. Someone calls me articulate, my first thought is that I probably speak like they would like to. I think you are letting Kim Wack(Wade) rub off on you.

Author

Goldenae

Date

2007-02-08T09:52:09-06:00

ID

110348

Comment

I have made fun of Biden for those remarks but I don't consider him racist. The problem is that when you see others as an OTHER or not one of you, you have the tendency to say stupid things. A person who sees everyone as equal or one of them probably can't make these embarassing slips of the tongue. Free or clear your mind and heart and the rest will follow.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T10:18:29-06:00

ID

110349

Comment

Goldenae, I really think you are missing something here. "Articulate" has for years been code speak for "I'm surprised that black person can speak so well." When someone says he/she is "articulate" it is usually in context of how they speak. If the fact they speak well is a surprise to you then use of "articulate" is code speak, otherwise insulting. Very, very rarely is "articulate" going to be used by someone after hearing a speech that razzle-dazzled you, and explained the issues well. As in, "Wow, that is one of the best speeches ever. They did such a good job of explaining everything. He is really an articulate orator!" I don't think Biden was using my second example So, I was at a conference back in the early 90's hosted by Bonner Bros. A black woman and myself got on the elevator as did another white guy. Him and her began speaking. After brief conversation, he said, "You must be from up North?" She replied, "No, I'm from here in Memphis. Why do you say that?" You could see on her face she knew what he was about to say. "Well, you speak so well." Chilly! I say it got chilly in there till we got to the first floor! As for being "clean." I don't buy Biden's reasons for that either. And, I defer to Al Sharpton, who said, "I told Joe, I take a bath everyday." Anyone else notice the dividing lines along race, sex, and class that are evident by the candidates vying for the Democratic nod? Doesn't mean they are running that way, and trying to divide the melting pot. But, you have these clear distinctions from the front runners if people just voted based on race, sex and class: Hillary - women Obama - african-americans Richardson - hispanics Edwards - younger metrosexual white males - uber rich Biden - older angrier white males - common man This should be a interesting race if they don't let the pre-primary polls decide who is the nominee over letting the voters decide. In a quickie FOX poll last night Obama cleaned Edwards and Hilary's clock. But, in polls in NH and IA Hillary is way up.

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-02-08T10:58:20-06:00

ID

110350

Comment

Excellent Pike. I still don't know exactly what Biden meant, but I believe he meant clean as "without civil rights baggage" or without the claim of victimization of Blacks or claim that all Whites or too many whites are evil. He was clearly putting all earlier Blacks who had run for the position in the same category and claiming Obama was different. By any measure it was a telling and stupid comment. You are what you think and think about. I can't repeat this comment too often. Of course, I and many more had much fun with the lack of bathing claim. When you say stupid things that you can't explain or defend you open yourself up for all kinds of claims.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T11:15:51-06:00

ID

110351

Comment

Additionally, Biden could have meant he felt or believed that Jessie, Al, Corol and Shirley were all on the take or were receiving illegal or unknown recompense on the secret while claiming they were looking out for the interest of Black folks. In other words, he could have been accusing them of not being legitimate candidate. However, I'm yet to hear anyone claiming Shirley Chisolm was on the take or a phony. What a person thinks often runs out of a person's mouth before they can stop it.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T11:33:07-06:00

ID

110352

Comment

Thanks, I'm glad it made sense. In sports code speak is used a bit more freely without necessarily knowing you are doing it. Take basketball - Bird was a hard worker. Magic used his natural talent. Or a base stealer in baseball - The white guy is good at reading pitchers, the black guy is just fast.

Author

pikersam

Date

2007-02-08T11:39:48-06:00

ID

110353

Comment

I was about to comment but Pike stepped in and pretty much did it for me. Although Biden probably meant no ill-intent, his lack of understanding of the issue and the fact that he's one of those older angrier white males provided the conditions for such a statement. In his effort to NOT be offensive he WAS offensive. Goldenae, we're not here to speak as others want us to. I hope you don't do that. Fact is, when folks say that to me I take it as "you speak so well...(because most black folks/rappers don't) They may mean nothing by it but i gues ignorance is bliss. You can say "that particular outfit does you justice" or "I like that color on you" as opposed to " you look nice today" because frankly what is not said is "you usually don't warrant a compliment, you rather bland most days, but today I've noticed that you did a little better on your wrdrobe choice" Its all about folks doing what they usually don't do. THINK sometimes BEFORE you speak. It'll save you a lot of trouble.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T11:50:38-06:00

ID

110354

Comment

The reason I say Bird and Magic or Magic and Bird are my favorite basketball players is because they saved the NBA. They were just what the league needed. Both great and from different backgrounds. Both were open to the truth when they saw it. I like and respect Bird although I hated the Celtic the whole time Bird was there. I wasn't a fan of the Lakers either but I didn't hate them. I hated the Celtics for the manner the City Of Boston treated Bill Russell, Jo Jo White and many other black players who put all those championship banner in the rafters. For a while I had a problem with Bird because he acted originally like he would be another oblivious White boy like Cousy or Havlichek who knew the town was racist and mistreating Blacks and the the Black Celtic basketball players but instead of saying something they chose to stay silent and complicit. Many years later Cousy saw the light and broke down crying about it. Once Bird and Magic had the meeting or get-together, no racist of either race could blind them to the truth. They saw the light and was glad to see it.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T11:55:06-06:00

ID

110355

Comment

Also as to Bird, I was very atuned to Brent Mussburger who I still hate because of all his bragging about Larry Bird's brillance and talent based in superior intellect while implying that nearly all or indeed all the Blacks played basketball on instincts or natural talents. I was pissed off that Larry never said anything about this or white members of the league or ownership. I never heard Mussburger brag about Magic' or Michael Jordan's intellect that way. Clearly Magic, Jordan, Jabbar, Barkley, Isiah Thomas, Bill Russell, Chamberlin, Dr. J, and many, many more very successful and less successful and accomplished Black players were great intellectuals. Larry Bird didn't need any Mussburgers to make excuses for his vast talents. Like most great players or people he succeeded due to innate ability and hard works.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T12:06:32-06:00

ID

110356

Comment

same thing with Peyton that Ive been screaming at the top of my lungs. Steve McNair is a superior talent...period. But Peyton is everyone's golden boy...It BURNS me up!!! He's smart, "don't give Peyton time to prepare" "he'll methodically pick you apart" ..OMG don't get me started its ridiculous.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T12:18:28-06:00

ID

110357

Comment

Well folks, I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one. I can't look at the man's words without considering intent. And I just did not see any ill intent. As a self professed nemesis to people like Kim Wade, I find it much more disturbing the things they utter. I take issue with people that say I can not be a Democrat and a Christian. I take issue with Republicans that suggest that hard work, dedication to family, patriotism, etc. are restricted to Republicans. I take issue with individuals that try to say that I am a slave because I identify more with the Democratic Party than Republican. I took the position on Biden's comments without knowing anyone else's. But I have observed efforts to seperate Obama from the Black community expressed elsewhere. Rush Limbaugh calls him a "Halfrican" American and says he is really not Black. The insults that we all should see are the attempts to make Obama look like an anomoly. Similar to the Lovie Smith/ Tony Dungy situation. Its not that they were the first capable blacks, but because of how the NFL was, it has taken this long for a black to be in that position. Same with Obama, he is not the first capable black, it has just taken this country this long to allow a black to be in his position. Whenever we have the first Black President, people are going to say that race should not matter. Well, ideally, it should not, but if race really did not matter, we would have had a Black President by now. I honestly think what Republicans, conservatives especially want us to do is form a circle and start firing at a target in the middle, while actually shooting at each other. I applaud Kamikaze for going over to WJNT and being on the show with Kim Wade because he gets to see what conservatives really think. You go and listen to that bunch and its easy to get the impression they think that Kim is a "good black" and Kamikaze and folks that speak their mind on issues are trouble makers. But he handles himself well, much better than I would.

Author

Goldenae

Date

2007-02-08T12:29:43-06:00

ID

110358

Comment

I thank you...thats what Im there for...To be his on-air nemesis!!! Listen in today. Ill be on.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2007-02-08T12:34:28-06:00

ID

110359

Comment

Kamikaze, Ask him to hook you up with our daily email conversations in a group called [email][email protected][/email] Just make sure its not your main email, 50-60 emails go out a day. You will get a much better view of whom you are sitting beside. He really opens up when he knows his views are not being broadcast. I will be sure to listen in today. I really think its important for people not to let others frame the discussion about them. I am going to start making JFP one of the spots that I check on frequently so I can express my views on things. I think this open dialogue is the best way to deal with opposing viewpoints.

Author

Goldenae

Date

2007-02-08T12:44:51-06:00

ID

110360

Comment

Goldenae, I doubt we're disagreeing very much. I suspect Biden know he used the wrong words. Otherwise, why was he trying to clean them up? Possibly, he didn't mean to be negative or hurtful.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-02-08T12:51:01-06:00

ID

110361

Comment

Ray, I agree with that. I just think its a strategy and distraction to have us going around attacking each other. As my way of saying hello, I would like to send Kamikaze and Donna Ladd some shirts from my company. So, if you would provide me with an acceptable mailing address and desired size. And the first female and first male to email me at [email][email protected][/email], I will send a shirt as well.

Author

Goldenae

Date

2007-02-08T13:01:27-06:00

ID

110362

Comment

Goldenae, I think that you are on target with this one. We could have made some real lemonade by agreeing with Biden, i.e., Obama is well spoken, clean cut, articulate, good looking, experienced, well educated and the list goes on. The good thing is that Obama is not the first or the only African American male to fit this bill. So, prehaps we can say to the world, if Biden is so off base with his comments, why does the face of America reflect the absence/under representation of Blacks in government? If you know this about Obama why do so many Democrats and Republicans have a problem with supporting African Americans. Obama is the only African American in the Senate. This should tell us something. Obama has been put on the back burner now and it's all about Hiliary. He will not be given a free ride through national media and we have not made the right argument to keep him in the public's eve. Harold Ford had some of the same comments made by others, in other words, he was believed to be human and not a risidual genetic mishap of a monkey. Ford was not given the White Democratic support needed to pull it off and also, as in the case of our election of frank melton, the media had too many black folks acting crazy and believing things that were just plain stupid.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-02-08T13:46:51-06:00