Jackson Free Press

When I was 16 years old, my friends talked me into going to a local teen dance club. I begged my grandmother to approve, and we were off. I spent all evening getting dolled up for my first club appearance. When we pulled up to the club, I was nervous, but the music was blasting, the line was long, and I was ready to dance. When we finally made it inside, I was a little nervous but excited nonetheless.

One of my older friends demanded that we stay together as we made our way through the crowd. Once we began to move, I felt hands from all directions touching my legs and butt. I then understood the reason for sticking together. The groping made me uncomfortable; there was no way of knowing which filthy hand had felt me up. So we kept it moving.

We found a space to stop and began to dance. I must admit I was really enjoying myself. But after about three songs, that changed.

I had this old-fashioned vision of young men coming up and asking me if I would like to dance. I was wrong. Boys just came up behind me, grabbed my waist and started to grind all over me.

In response, I would just stop dancing. A few guys moved on to the next group of girls, while others became angry and disrespectful. When we left the club, I asked if such behavior was normal, and my friends assured me that it was.

I decided that the club wasn't all that. I had more fun making up dance routines on my front porch. But because my friends enjoyed going, I would tag along every now and then. I soon confirmed that being groped was a part of going to the club. During my junior year in high school, I decided that I would only go to the club for extremely special occasions such as birthdays. I stayed true to my word.

I've always wondered if going to the club made people look at me as a "ho"? I never understood why some young men felt that it was OK to reach out and touch perfect strangers just because they walked into a club.

It was in those early trips to the club that I first realized our culture accepts the idea that African American women are sexual beings and should be treated as such. In many instances, rap artists refer to their music as a way of life. If that's the case, then the way rappers talk about women are part of that way of life.

Recently, our nation and our city have begun a dialogue about lyrics that degrade women—especially African American women—in response to the Don Imus controversy. Some people say that hip-hop and rap music don't breed negative ideas about women because they are only reflecting the reality of how certain women behave. It's the way that some women act, they argue, that inspire such lyrics.

Others argue that women only "act that way" because hip-hop lyrics encourage them. Still others say that hip-hop and rap artists have a First Amendment right to talk about whatever they want, and their opponents reply that we have a First Amendment right to call them on it.

I believe that both sides are missing more important and valuable points. One point is this: Music has always influenced African American society. Today's music is not an exception. Supporters of hip-hop and rap are completely blind to the damage they could be causing with their music. National crime statistics show that black women are victims of sexual violence at higher rates than white women, but even these numbers are low because black women are less likely to report such crimes.

We must not downplay the fact that rap lyrics might play a role in causing such statistics. We cannot make excuses for a "way of life" that encourages dangerous behavior. If the lyrics really do portray the way some women act, then our response should be to evaluate the causes and work out how we can restore pride in these women. Just repeating the idea that African American women are hypersexual beings is irresponsible. As a culture, we've portrayed African American women as over-sexed in mainstream media. By doing this, we've convinced ourselves that the idea is acceptable, but it's not.

African American males struggle to overcome the consequences of slavery, and so do African American women. The "way of life" for most African American people can be traced back to those horrifying times when blacks were property. Black men are working to overcome the prejudice that they are ignorant, lazy and naturally violent people. As African American men strive to break the cycle of oppression, African American women support them 100 percent.

As African American women struggle against being viewed as sexual property, black men don't seem to be on our side. African American women have been viewed as sexual property since the time of slavery. We cannot break the cycle slavery began without freeing ourselves from the idea that African American women are to blame for the perception that they are purely sexual beings.

By degrading and disrespecting black women, black men are perpetuating their own stereotypes as well as neglecting the struggles of black women. Men have the right to talk about whatever they like, but black men have an obligation to stand up and fight the legacy of slavery—not only for themselves, but for their entire race.

Previous Comments

ID

74873

Comment

:) We are sexual beings. But we are so much more. I'm enjoying your columns so much girlfriend. Can't wait to meet you.

Author

emilyb

Date

2007-05-16T18:48:50-06:00

ID

74874

Comment

By degrading and disrespecting black women, black men are perpetuating their own stereotypes as well as neglecting the struggles of black women. Men have the right to talk about whatever they like, but black men have an obligation to stand up and fight the legacy of slavery—not only for themselves, but for their entire race. AMEN!!!!!

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-16T19:19:23-06:00

ID

74875

Comment

Yes, this is an AMAZING column. Melishia is an AMAZING woman.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-16T19:43:09-06:00

ID

74876

Comment

I must ask: Why do these men—pigs?—think they have the right to feel up a woman just because she walks into a club? I've slapped the hell out of men who touched me without my permission back in my club days. I remember one time when I was a waitress at the old Palladium. I was walking down that cool spiral staircase (remember the one Downtown Julie Brown would broadcast from?) with my tray over my head, and some idiot reached up and goosed my underarm (I was wearing sleaveless spandex; hey, it was the '80s). I spun around and started beating him with my tray. Suddenly, security came out of nowhere, including the former pro football player manager, and booted this guy onto the curb for touching me. He had paid $20 to get in, and $8 a drink. The Palladium took care of its staff—and the women who came to the club. I have many stories like that. And at the time it was the hottest club in, probably, the world. That is what SHOULD happen when men touch women without permission.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-16T19:47:35-06:00

ID

74877

Comment

I must ask: Why do these men—pigs?—think they have the right to feel up a woman just because she walks into a club? Trust me, you don't even have to be in a club for that. I remember when I was in my first year in college and I was standing in line at the school cafeteria. Someone kept popping my backside but I didn't know who it was since there were a bunch of people behind me. I could tell that it wasn't anyone directly behind me because I could tell that this clown had to reach forward to hit me. If I didn't have a scholarship to keep, I would have counted five guys down and slapped the taste out of his mouth. I remember one time when I was a waitress at the old Palladium. I was walking down that cool spiral staircase (remember the one Downtown Julie Brown would broadcast from?) with my tray over my head, and some idiot reached up and goosed my underarm (I was wearing sleaveless spandex; hey, it was the '80s). I spun around and started beating him with my tray. Okay, I can't stop laughing at that. I wish I was a fly on the wall to see Donna swinging her tray like Madea swinging her purse. :-P

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-16T20:01:44-06:00

ID

74878

Comment

Melishia is my new hero.

Author

kate

Date

2007-05-17T06:25:38-06:00

ID

74879

Comment

in 8th grade one particular kid decided he was going to pat my ass in the hallway. he did it once when I wasn't looking. I saw who it was. The next time he came near me I said, "If you touch me again, Im' going to kick the shit out of you." Last time he messed with me. Couse I was 5 10" and that little mannerless dude was about 5' tall! This article was REALLY good, Melishia. You ask important questions and you ask them with respect. Your essay came alive on the page, too... I hope these conversations inspire all of us to treat one another with a higher standard of respect. No one should be booed off thd dance floor if they don't want to dance with or be touched by another person. We all have a right to dance our booties off, even if it's gonna have to be on the front porch!

Author

Izzy

Date

2007-05-17T06:27:28-06:00

ID

74880

Comment

Awesome column, Melishia. I agree with your sentiments 100%. Never thought about it before, but it does seem that "old fashioned" way of actually asking a woman to dance has gone out the window. Very few guys ever asked me, they just got in my personal space and I guess that was supposed to be "dancing with me." I so do not miss the club scene!!

Author

music chick

Date

2007-05-17T07:53:17-06:00

ID

74881

Comment

music chick, I've never even seen the club scene. Ooooh, I rhymed. :-) The only time I went to a club was on a Saturday morning when I auditioned for a play. That's it. In general, I'm just not a partier. Even at school dances, I was always the one sitting in the corner watching everyone's purses and sipping punch. I danced a little in college trying to fit in, and most of the time that was while I was dating a guy who liked to dance. He was older, so I never had to deal with that "bump and grind" mess from him. Also, I was in a sorority and didn't want to hurt their rep. However, when I became a senior, I dropped all of that. All I cared about was graduating. Impressing other folk meant nothing to me any more because they weren't giving out grades or degrees.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-17T08:11:49-06:00

ID

74882

Comment

That is why I like ballroom dancing. Everyone is just there to have fun and not get the hook up or score that night. Every female friend I've taken to a ballroom dance wound up going back. I heard the same thing over and over, they had alot more fun than at a club, could dance their ass off, and didn't have to worry about the barbarian romeos.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T08:19:38-06:00

ID

74883

Comment

Allow me to add that only a back-a$$ son-of-a-b!tch would feel up a woman he doesn't know or one he does without permission. This makes me sick to think about. Melishia is my hero, too, and has been since I met her when she was in the 10th grade. She's going to do great things.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-17T09:31:11-06:00

ID

74884

Comment

Happens all the time. Was in a club in BR a couple of years ago on a Friday night when a some former LSU football players came in. Dude was 30 years old and immediately starts walking up to every girl in the place and gyrating his damn pelvis up against theirs with no space in between. Yeah, I do that to strange girls all the time, just walk up to them and start bumping and grinding on them. Did that to my g/f then was surprised when I grabbed him and shoved his ass away. Got real apologetic when he realized he was about to get his ass beat. You have these fools in every club that pull that crap. Problem from my point of view, is not enough women say anything about it or do anything. I think more women should turn around and slap the guy that did it or get in his face and let him have it. That tends to embarrass them in front of their posse.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T09:36:53-06:00

ID

74885

Comment

You have these fools in every club that pull that crap. Problem from my point of view, is not enough women say anything about it or do anything. I think more women should turn around and slap the guy that did it or get in his face and let him have it. That tends to embarrass them in front of their posse. My mom told me a story about a guy she knew who touched her butt at school. She slapped him, and this was in the 1960's. As you can tell, my mom doesn't put up with much.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-17T10:13:43-06:00

ID

74886

Comment

Melisha, Melisha, Melisha, I had to wipe back tears while reading your well thoughout and well written article. We must beign to examine everything that contributes negatively to the well-being of women. The struggle has been too long and too costly to watch the young enter into a hopeless and helpless state. I work with HIV/AIDS victims. I've seen jr. high school kids who are postive. There is something to be said about stimulus-response. I find such a negative message in some of the hip-hop videos where the girls are wearing a flower bud on their nipples and a string to cover her vigina; yet, the male singers are fully dressed - often in expencsive, tailored suits with coordinated ties and a top hat. What's up with this? If he is fully dressed - why must I be nearly nude??? Something is wrong with this message and women must continue to speak up and out with the hope that this acknowledgement and outcry from concerned women and men will encourage a more befitting and positive message; those qualities which are required if one wishes to develop/inclease self-worth and self-esteem.

Author

justjess

Date

2007-05-17T10:17:11-06:00

ID

74887

Comment

I cannot think of more powerful paragraphs that have ever appeared in the JFP than these, Melishia: African American males struggle to overcome the consequences of slavery, and so do African American women. The “way of life” for most African American people can be traced back to those horrifying times when blacks were property. Black men are working to overcome the prejudice that they are ignorant, lazy and naturally violent people. As African American men strive to break the cycle of oppression, African American women support them 100 percent. As African American women struggle against being viewed as sexual property, black men don’t seem to be on our side. African American women have been viewed as sexual property since the time of slavery. We cannot break the cycle slavery began without freeing ourselves from the idea that African American women are to blame for the perception that they are purely sexual beings. By degrading and disrespecting black women, black men are perpetuating their own stereotypes as well as neglecting the struggles of black women. Men have the right to talk about whatever they like, but black men have an obligation to stand up and fight the legacy of slavery—not only for themselves, but for their entire race. I cried when I edited it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-17T10:23:09-06:00

ID

74888

Comment

I can see why, Donna. When your read something like that, a Kleenex just won't do. You need a beach towel!

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-17T10:36:07-06:00

ID

74889

Comment

It doesn't help when an unrepentant Mike Tyson (read the account of his behavior at the pageant) gets out of jail and is welcomed home by a bunch of ministers who claim he was railroaded. That pretty much tells you there is a problem. I use that to make a point. I said earlier that the women should slap the men when they pull that stuff, well, take that a little further. Black women need to start saying enough. If a guy touches them like that in a club, slap the guy that does it or get in his face. Enough women start doing that, they get the message. How many women still watch BET or buy the records of those that perpetuate the stereotype? How many Black women raised hell when Tyson was hugged and celebrated as a hero when in reality he went to jail for raping a Black girl? It goes back to how much are women going to tolerate and its about time they said enough. fire away.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T10:37:51-06:00

ID

74890

Comment

I find such a negative message in some of the hip-hop videos where the girls are wearing a flower bud on their nipples and a string to cover her vigina; yet, the male singers are fully dressed - often in expencsive, tailored suits with coordinated ties and a top hat.-- justjess Agreed, Justjess - it's an unbalanced portrayal of power and ability. Women can be sexy, sure, and we can also be the ones in charge, CEO's & the like, counting up the cash.

Author

Izzy

Date

2007-05-17T10:40:26-06:00

ID

74891

Comment

Yes, and come out to the Chick Ball tonight to see many positive examples of sexy+powerful. And I agree that it is up to women to say "enuff." That's what Melishia just did. The rest of us must stand up and join her.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-17T10:42:16-06:00

ID

74892

Comment

But, 'Fish, men must also be accountable for their actions. It's amazing to me that anyone espouses a "boys will be boys" attitude. Saying that men cannot control their actions in front of a sexy woman is the ultimate insult to men—holding them to such a low standard. All of us must have higher standards for men, and hold them to it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-17T10:43:46-06:00

ID

74893

Comment

allow me to digress, I don't think its because of slavery. gasps I hear from Donna. It is about the culture. However, you go to Japan, Korea, the Middle East, and other areas, and the cultures are very much male dominated. It is so in African American culture. I think there are several reasons for it. I think an illegitimacy rate of 70% has alot to do with it. For all of Tom Head's efforts to redefine the family and mother/father roles, the fact is, that young men need a father to look up to for the most part. When they grow up without a father or they know who he is but he didn't respect him or his mother enough to marry him, it sends a signal to that child. They don't grow up in a home where a man and woman respect and love each other so they miss out on that positive influence. I think some of it goes back to the Uncle Tom syndrome if you want to get ahead or educated. I don't know how many Black women have complained to me about how Black guys do not like it at all when they try to get an education or better themselves and thus wind up better educated or in a better job than the man. I've had more than one Black woman who was educated tell me that was why they preferred to date white guys, i.e., they didn't feel threatened by a woman who was going somewhere (just saying what I was told, I'm aware that reality overall is probably different). I think it goes back to the culture among Black's being male dominated or because they grow up without fathers, their self esteem is low to begin with (keep in mind, a child growing up without a parent usually does not understand why the other parent is not around and feels rejected at some level) and is thus feels threatened when his woman might get ahead of him in his mind. was disgressing there. Fire away. Just thinking out loud. We are just friends here having a conversation over a drink. I'm not trying to change anyone's minds. ;-)

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T10:47:26-06:00

ID

74894

Comment

Donna, I thought that when I wrote that. I completely agree. I agree there should be higher standards. I was taking more the tack of no one will respect you if you don't respect yourself. Having said that, they should be held to higher standards and told by society and the women they offend with their behavior not to act that way. For example. I belong to a very large tailgate group at LSU. We've had guys over the years get out of hand with girls and we've made them leave. Told them that behavior was not welcome and if they came back, we'd get campus police to escort them away. You have to start somewhere and for all the media messages, it still comes down to individual behavior in our daily lives. Women need to stand up more and the creeps start getting the message to some degree. Some will always be brain dead of course.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T10:52:06-06:00

ID

74895

Comment

So, 'Fish, I do wonder where you think that high "illegitimacy" rate comes from or the other problems of the culture. Stipulating, of course, that the white man has not had a thing to do with it all. I was taking more the tack of no one will respect you if you don't respect yourself. Careful about blaming the victims here. That's done enough in our society. Having said that, they should be held to higher standards and told by society and the women they offend with their behavior not to act that way. "They"??? Don't you mean "we," 'Fish? The "boys will be boys" syndrome isn't just about black men, so don't get all high falutin' on us. Our society holds ALL men to a lower standard. You take that problem and compound with the problems, yes, created by slavery and white supremacy for the black community, and here we are. We're all a part of the solution, dude.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-17T11:22:53-06:00

ID

74896

Comment

knock it off. WHen I said they I meant guys who act like that. As I respect women and don't treat them or think of them as possessions I'm not going to include myself in that group or any other decent guy. Sorry you can't see the distinction. Where do you get the boys will be boys syndrome from? All I said was there will always be a certain amount of creeps. Any group will always have its share of bad apples. That was all I meant. Quit being so ready to go on the attack. as far as kids growing up without parents, it has exploded since the 1960's. Black kids grew up in more two parent homes during Jim Crow than after. Explain that one since you have chosen to take this discussion down this path. And no one is blaming victims here. I merely have said if a guy grabs you, confront him. They are usually cowards anyway which is why they are doing it in a club behind someone. They'll usually turn tail and run if confronted. Nice to see you twist my statements into a blame the victim, boys will be boys and whitey can do no wrong.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T11:41:12-06:00

ID

74897

Comment

Black kids grew up in more two parent homes during Jim Crow than after. Could you elaborate and provide sources? How does that trend compare to other races in that same time period? If this happened to blacks and whites, I don't see your point.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-17T12:05:41-06:00

ID

74898

Comment

I'm actually not trying to twist or attack you, 'Fish—simply add to what you said, most of which I agree with. Grow a thicker skin. And, uh, don't tell me to "knock it off" because I don't agree with every word you write. ;-D And if you don't understand what I mean by the "boys will be boys" syndrome, I'm not sure how to explain it. Actually, the author of the column is the one who "decided to go down this path." It has something to do with the Drug War, which focuses largely on black people, 'Fish. After Jim Crow was forced to end, more emphasis was placed on imprisoning black men—thus, breaking apart families. There is much more to say on this front, but I have a Chick Ball to run. We'll re-fight the Civil War later.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-17T12:07:59-06:00

ID

74899

Comment

Hello All, just wanted to say thanks for the great dialogue. Just a few comments. First, Fish, during the 60s, there wasn't much difference in family relationships though the demographics were slightly "better." Black men were still somewhat absent from the lives of their families (well, speaking from my family history and some close families around mine). Black women have always had a tendency to protect our men, and Black men have always had the tendency to be unemotional. There is this mentality that says, "If the bills are paid, then she can handle the rest." So, maybe men were there financially, but there has always been a lack of "relationship" within the black family.

Author

Melishia

Date

2007-05-17T12:46:10-06:00

ID

74900

Comment

Also, women should start standing up more. However, it isn't safe to "get all up in" some guys face about touching you. First of all, because people won't always come to your defense. Second of all because the guy could possibly beat the crap out of you before anyone notices that you're getting choked, slapped, or pushed around.

Author

Melishia

Date

2007-05-17T12:50:12-06:00

ID

74901

Comment

Good point, Melishia. I, after all, had a huge security staff to back me up when I beat the guy with the tray.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-17T12:54:59-06:00

ID

74902

Comment

obviously I meant use some sense if you confront a guy. If its a group of guys and you are by yourself, probably get the hell out of there is a wise policy. If you have some g/fs with you or friends period and its in a club or similar setting, then I'd say confront him.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T13:05:02-06:00

ID

74903

Comment

Sorry Fish, I gotta disagree. Even with a group of g/fs, some guys will still push you around (and your friends too). And going to the manager won't do any good, because he's probably nowhere to be found. And security is too busy feeling some chick up too.

Author

Melishia

Date

2007-05-17T13:08:51-06:00

ID

74904

Comment

Powerful stuff, Melisha. Truly powerful. I can only hope and pray that Kamikaze reads this. And I mean REALLY READS it.

Author

Kacy

Date

2007-05-17T13:16:46-06:00

ID

74905

Comment

Kacy, he'd just say that the guys doing the gropin' are really good, in their hearts. Probably good husbands, too. ;-). 'fish, I'm with Melishia on this one. It's so easy for a man to say 'women should stand up to them.' Men are, in general, larger and stronger than women. Asking a woman to pick a fight with a drunk man in a club is not always (and probalby not often) the best solution.

Author

kate

Date

2007-05-17T13:25:44-06:00

ID

74906

Comment

Good point, Melishia. I, after all, had a huge security staff to back me up when I beat the guy with the tray. Now you got me laughing again! Was it metal or plastic? ROTFL

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-17T14:00:03-06:00

ID

74907

Comment

I don't know that black males are any different than white males when it comes to doggish or women abusing behavior. I have been around lots of white people (males and females) during my adult years, and have seen little or no differences with respect to the goals of blacks or whites when it comes to clubbing and seeking the opposite sex or sex period. The methods may be a little different but mostly everything else is the same. Many young white males and females participate in this dirty dancing too. It's a young culture rather than merely a black one. The black male is messing up grossly though. There isn't any denying of this! With the advent and disgrace of rap and rappish behavior, the young black male has become bolder, seemingly morally bankrupt, and more openly abusive to women and himself than ever, but, in my opinion, he is no worse, or not much worse, than the white male counterpart who is slicker in his pursuits. In my view, the white male is more concerned about getting away or having his action perceived more honorably than they really are. In other words, the only difference is the perception. Perception has its place though. It's too bad and so sad that any kid, especially a fatherless black kid who is so in need of help and love, would look up to the pathetic images of Snoop Dog and other rappers as role models. Like drug deealers and pimps, it appears most rappers only care about the money and fame, and would sale the whole race away for a sack of money. They don't give a damn about the black woman (the facts are replete) or their children; otherwise they wouldn't abandon them and set such bad examples. I don't care how much they deny this, I know they're lying. Notwithstanding Kingfish's blabber about black folks, the black women hasn't to any large degree abandoned or left the black man, no more so than the white woman has left the white man. The black woman is still, by and large, waiting on the black man to grow up and become all he can be. Women and men of all races are curious and experimenting to some degree beyond race. There are problems in every race between the sexes if we would be honest. Too much male domination and too little equality. Indeed, we black folks have some stupid and crazy male Negroes who can't stand to see a black woman smarter and more accomplished than them. We're not the only race with this problem. What grave ignorance to behold! Instead of trying to date, love and marry a women of this kind, those fools overwhelmed by ignorance and jealousy would seek to abuse her. Those fools deserve to live miserably and die alone. After all, they asked for it.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-05-17T14:13:14-06:00

ID

74908

Comment

Ray, the only reason I said Black is because if you look at the original story, that is who it was about. I assumed she was being specific for a reason so I wrote accordingly. Obviously what I wrote applies to all races. I didn't think I had to state the obvious.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-17T14:25:12-06:00

ID

74909

Comment

I understand King. The column is excellent.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-05-17T14:33:33-06:00

ID

74910

Comment

I remember back in the 7th grade we used to grab girls on the butt-and that went on for a year or so until the girls got the upper hand and doing so wasn't percieved as cool anymore. I wonder if that still goes on in school or if its different now-back then there wasn't sexual harrassment as we know it now, but somewhere along the lines the word got out that you don't touch women without their permission. So what I'm seeing here is that a class of victims exists, for people that go into certain clubs that type of behavior is acceptable-but I'm guessing not all guys that go there engage in it, but I can imagine part of the allure of these clubs is that guys feel "free to grab" and the girls that go learn to accept it and those that don't don't go. Peer pressure is a rough thing....and changing that isn't something that happens overnight. My only power over these sorts of clubs and behaviors is my pocketbook, and by attending places where this behavior is acceptable, society only enables it. Very nice read, and hopefully some young men will learn something from this essay.

Author

GLewis

Date

2007-05-17T14:43:14-06:00

ID

74911

Comment

I should add that from the 5th-7th grade my best friend and I were the feel kings at school. I don't know why we weren't slapped or reported more. Perhaps it was because we harmless, didn't grope, we caressed quickly instead, and were always ready to run. What started to break me from the bad habit was when a mean girl jumped a desk and slapped the dog dookie out of my friend for trying to feel on another girl. I knew someting wasn't right about that slap. It was a grown person slap and she used the wrong hand. We were trained to block the right hand and run, but she used the left, which we wrern't trained to stop. I learned years later that as adults my friend and that same girl who slapped him had a wild romance for years as adults. This incident started me off toward recovery but I wasn't dog broken until the same friend cursed a teacher one day as we were being manish and messing with girls. We had taken over the class room and were looking for the right girl to touch, but suddenly someone touched my friend on the shoulder. He thought it was one of the girls we were messing with, and turned and said, "go to shit you SOB." Sadly, it was a teacher who was going with the coach, a coach notorious for breaking bad habits of young black males. Back then you could take a few licks to help a friend out when being whipped. Mr. Nunnery hit the boy so hard that I lost all my nerves and was unable to come forth and rescue him. He understood, said he couldn't blame me, and is still one of my best friends. And so that how I learned to keep my hands off all pretty thing unless invited and I believed it to be in my best interest.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2007-05-17T15:23:24-06:00

ID

74912

Comment

Now you got me laughing again! Was it metal or plastic? ROTFL Just saw this, L.W. It was one of those dark-brown hard-plastic trays with a thin layer of cork so that the glasses would slip. As I recall, when he goosed me, my tray was filled with empty Rolling Rock bottles, which flew all over the place when I beat him over the head. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-19T10:38:46-06:00

ID

74913

Comment

Now you got me laughing again! Was it metal or plastic? ROTFL Just saw this, L.W. It was one of those dark-brown hard-plastic trays with a thin layer of cork so that the glasses would slip. As I recall, when he goosed me, my try was filled with empty Rolling Rock bottles, which flew all over the place when I beat him over the head. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2007-05-19T10:38:49-06:00

ID

74914

Comment

Glad it was plastic, Donna, or else you'd be doing time. :-P

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2007-05-19T13:14:11-06:00

ID

74915

Comment

You have these fools in every club that pull that crap. Problem from my point of view, is not enough women say anything about it or do anything. I think more women should turn around and slap the guy that did it or get in his face and let him have it. That tends to embarrass them in front of their posse. I agree completely with this statement by Kingfish - and to not only embarass these guys but to MAKE A SCENE WHICH CAN'T BE IGNORED. Plus - not only should these jerks get slapped but it's important to 1. tell the management immediately - and in no uncertain terms that you won't be back until the situation is changed 2. tell the security people immediately what's going on and demand that they throw the perpetrators out of the club immediately 3. organize all the women you know and get them to BOYCOTT THE ESTABLISHMENT UNTIL THE MANAGEMENT DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT - AN ORGANIZED BOYCOTT WORKS WONDERS - nothing convinces management more that there needs to be a real change than a loss of income which will continue until the change has taken place 4. PUBLICLY SHAME THESE ESTABLISHMENTS - NAME NAMES - here is a good place, but also anywhere else you can think of I.e., not only don't go back but let the management know why you're not coming back, don't let them off the hook, and patronize bars/clubs/pubs where this will not happen - and no, it does not happen everywhere. I personally know of at least one pub with a very strict anti-harassment policy. LOUD women get noticed. The squeaky wheel *does* get the grease. Granted, yes, you should *not*have to put up with this. The reality is that you will ***until you say loud and clear that you won't*** and won't patronize an establishment where this happens. And no, this is not a pipe dream. Just say 'no' - but loud and clear so that *****everyone***** in the place hears it - and don't go back. A few lawsuits would wake these managers/owners up real fast as well. That's what the video cameras built into your cell phones are for - get hard evidence whenever you can.

Author

lucdix

Date

2007-05-20T00:10:00-06:00

ID

74916

Comment

you got it. See, here is where those who disagree with me lose it. There is a reason why clubs have ladies night. Its because the guys go where the women are. Simple biology. If the women are run off, then the club sees its business plummet. I have known enough nightclub owners. If there is something that will run the female patrons off, then they will always take steps to remove the problem.

Author

Kingfish

Date

2007-05-20T00:17:38-06:00