Jackson Free Press

Minority and special education students are more likely than their peers to receive a paddling, according to a recent report by the Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union. Nationally, African Americans made up 35.6 percent of students paddled in the 2006-2007 school year, but only 17.1 percent of the student population.

That racial imbalance persists in Mississippi, despite its higher African American population. Black girls are more than twice as likely as white girls to be paddled. While boys in general are more likely to receive corporal punishment, African American boys in the state are still paddled at a disproportionately higher rate than their white counterparts. The number of African American boys paddled is 1.7 times their proportion in the student population, versus 1.2 times for white boys.

The 132-page report, "A Violent Punishment: Corporal Punishment Of Children In U.S. Public Schools,"calls for lawmakers to ban corporal punishment, saying the practice is ineffective, unevenly applied and degrading to children.

Mississippi educators paddle a higher percentage of their students than those in any other state. 7.5 percent of Mississippi school children received a paddling during the 2006-2007 school year. The next highest percentage was 4.7 percent, in Arkansas.

The U.S. Department of Education reports that 38,131 Mississippi students received a paddling during the 2006-2007 school year, but the Department of Education's data do not reflect the number of times a single student could be paddled. Additionally, schools may under-report or not keep records for corporal punishment.

"I've interviewed superintendents who have told me that corporal punishment is useful in school systems because it's cheap and quick," said Alice Farmer, principal author of the report.

School districts that use corporal punishment often have nominal regulations on its use, such as prescribing a number of "licks" for a given offense or the dimensions of a paddle. Rankin County, for example, stipulates that the instrument of corporal punishment "be such as not to cause either temporary or permanent physical injury."

In addition to recommending a ban on corporal punishment, the report's authors also hope that their work will raise awareness among concerned parents and students.

"It would be wonderful to pass a law saying that corporal punishment can't be used in schools," Farmer said. "But if parents and children don't know that they have the right not to be corporally punished, then that law can't necessarily be enforced."

Mississippi families seeking redress are currently limited by the Mississippi Tort Claims Act, which protects educators who use corporal punishment as long as they do not act with "malicious purpose."

"A lot of families end up being stonewalled" by the legal process, Nsombi Lambright, director of the Mississippi ACLU, explained. "It would be really, really unfortunate if we had to wait until a student was seriously hurt, or until there was some type of altercation between a student and a school administrator, before we address this."

Jackson Public Schools abolished corporal punishment in 1990. The report's authors specifically praise JPS for that move, calling for other districts "to follow Jackson's lead."

In March 2008, on the instructions of then-Superintendent Earl Watkins, The JPS Discipline Committee issued a survey on discipline to students, teachers, parents and principals. Among other questions, the survey asked if corporal punishment should be reinstituted in the district.

The Committee's Aug. 19 report to the school board summarized the survey results: Principals and students did not support corporal punishment. Teachers and parents appeared to favor the use of corporal punishment, but response rates for both groups were low and not necessarily representative. Of the 619 parent responses, more than half were from parents of students in grades K-2.

"Corporal punishment models are still on the table, as are other models," board member Jonathan Larkin said. In place of corporal punishment, the Committee recommended adopting Positive Behavioral Intervention Support, a discipline system also recommended in HRW/ACLU report. The survey, which was written according to Watkins' instructions, failed to mention PBIS or any other alternative to corporal punishment.

The arrival of new JPS Superintendent Lonnie Edwards likely will delay any decision on new disciplinary practices, however. Bonita Potter, deputy superintendent for instruction, said that she expects the district to provide another discipline survey to parents at the September parent-teacher conferences.

"We are trying to get the participation up so that when we make a decision, it's a collective decision with all our stakeholders," Dr. Potter said.

Previous Comments

ID

133368

Comment

There was a CBS Evening News report on corporal punishment last night, and the reporter mentioned that disabled children are more likely to be paddled.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-08-21T10:50:26-06:00

ID

133371

Comment

Does JPS allow corporal punishment? I know Clinton does not. There'd be heck to pay if anyone touched my kids...

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2008-08-21T11:39:44-06:00

ID

133373

Comment

JPS ended the practice while I was in junior high, around 1990.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-08-21T11:46:02-06:00

ID

133374

Comment

I see nothing wrong with corporal punishment in schools.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-21T11:47:02-06:00

ID

133375

Comment

I have mixed feelings on this issue. I spank my kids, but that's my right and decision as a parent. As far as corporal punishment in schools, I think the threat should be there as leverage in extreme situations. However I don't think it should be the norm for any school official to paddle a child on a whim. Even then, certain protocols need to be in place like the ones mentioned in the article, including written parental permission to spank granted at the beginning of the school year, informing and receiving approval from the parent via phone, email or text message prior to the punishment taking place (with the option to do it themselves), and no less than 2 eyewitnesses to the paddling, followed up with a mandatory parent-teacher conference.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-21T12:16:30-06:00

ID

133378

Comment

Clinton did a few years ago in the elem. schools if the parents had signed a consent form, if I remember correctly. There is no mention of it in the new handbook for this year. My sister is the Sp. Ed. director and her husband is the Alternative School principal in the same Delta county, I will check with them to see they still have corporal punishment. I know a 10yrs ago they did and the had to have 2 eyewitnesses present.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-21T12:52:37-06:00

ID

133396

Comment

"Violence is the last resort for gaining power. Violence is a desperate act, the result of feeling powerless, not powerful." I'm sad to hear that we are spanking kids at school. Whatever your stance on corporal punishment, it is without question, intimidation. I would go so far as to say bullying. I can see how corporal punishment may work in the short term in terms of immediately changing the child's behavior, but it is not a teaching tactic at all, it's a fear tactic.

Author

quaxlee

Date

2008-08-21T14:17:57-06:00

ID

133403

Comment

Right on, quaxlee! I would much rather have my child behave because they know that is the right thing to do - not because they are afraid they are going to catch a beating. Not to mention, what will make them act right when you aren't around to beat their butts?

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-21T15:11:51-06:00

ID

133404

Comment

Spanking does not equal "beating".

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-21T15:23:19-06:00

ID

133405

Comment

semantics...

Author

quaxlee

Date

2008-08-21T15:48:00-06:00

ID

133406

Comment

Ask a five year old. ok, maybe I shouldn't say "beating." edit my comment above: rather than: ...they are afraid they are going to catch a beating. I'll say: ...they are afraid they are going to get hit.

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-21T15:50:15-06:00

ID

133407

Comment

spanking does not equal hitting. You hit someone with your fist, you spank a child with an open handed swat on the butt.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-21T16:05:28-06:00

ID

133412

Comment

I can tell you that Clinton has not allowed corporal punishment in the 6 years we have been in the school system. I'm glad to see JPS stopped: thanks, L.W., for answering my question.

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2008-08-21T20:33:25-06:00

ID

133414

Comment

hit verb 1 bring one's hand or a tool or weapon into contact with (someone or something) quickly and forcefully: the woman hit the mugger with her umbrella

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-22T08:03:27-06:00

ID

133415

Comment

Is this going to be another case of "ban punishment, then wonder why no one behaves?"

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-08-22T08:15:48-06:00

ID

133419

Comment

Spank verb To slap on the buttocks with a flat object or with the open hand, as for punishment.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-22T08:48:34-06:00

ID

133420

Comment

as Quaxlee said... semantics. Spanking = Hitting. I'll keep playing though. I have a Dictionary AND a Thesaurus. I wonder what the Thesaurus offers as a synonym for "spank." smack, slap (that word, "slap," was used in your definition for spank), hit, cuff; informal: wallop, belt, whack, tan someone's hide You can say spanking is not hitting if you want, but the Oxford American Dictionary and Thesaurus disagree.

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-22T09:02:51-06:00

ID

133422

Comment

Ironghost- Being against hitting children is not the same as being against punishment. You can punish/discipline a child without spanking (hitting) them. Nobody said to ban "punishment." It's the hitting of children that people want stopped.

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-22T09:08:29-06:00

ID

133424

Comment

"Is this going to be another case of "ban punishment, then wonder why no one behaves?" posted by Ironghost on 08/22/08 at 09:15 AM" Maybe we should do something neo-Confederate and bring back whipping posts? Maybe we should consider it for adults --- public caning or stoning like they do in third world countries? I wonder why some people always resort to extreme exaggeration to try to make a point? Who has suggested a ban on "punishment"? Many of the children who go on to commit crimes are being beaten (= punishment by some) as they grow up and it does not seem to improve their character.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-08-22T09:18:24-06:00

ID

133426

Comment

What other punishments are they going to use. Detention? sitting in a room for an hour really deters bad behavior. Send them home? that's a gift, they didn't want to be at school anyway. Supend them? that just puts them behind in school, enough times and they fail. Expell them? that just makes the drop out rate higer.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-22T09:24:56-06:00

ID

133428

Comment

Detention really does deter behavior because it can also inconvenience the parent and spur them to action. It spurred me to get on my teenager when I had to take off early from work to pick her up from detention. What makes you think a paddle is a magic wand? If I actually thought paddling, caning, punching and slapping would help improve the situation I would be for it as long as no permanent injuries are inflicted. How do you insure that does not happen? How do you ensure that minorities and disabled children are hit with the same amount of pressure as non-minority and non-disabled children? What do you do if the child comes back with a gun and busts a cap in you?

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-08-22T09:36:30-06:00

ID

133430

Comment

That's for a child who's lucky enough to have a caring parent. A large part of the problem is we have parents who just flat out don't care. I those cases, we need mentors: someone that will provide a positive, caring role model for the children. I believe spanking is wrong under any circumstance, and would never do it to my children. However, if it is used as a measure of discipline, it should be used by the parents and no one else.

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2008-08-22T09:48:07-06:00

ID

133432

Comment

Every child is different. Some respond well to milder forms of punishment such as time-outs or detention, others require stronger measures. I always consider spanking as a last resort and sparingly, and usually the threat of a spanking is effective enough.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-22T10:07:54-06:00

ID

133434

Comment

Would you agree with my first post that spanking is a form of intimidation/fear rather than teaching?? Go a step further; would we rather children learn good problem solving skills, behaviors, and social skills through effective teaching & modeling OR do we just want acceptable behavior because we say so.

Author

quaxlee

Date

2008-08-22T10:11:48-06:00

ID

133436

Comment

Quaxlee, I don't agree with you. Sometimes fear can be instructive.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-22T10:24:54-06:00

ID

133438

Comment

Interstingly, physical punishment in schools is prohibited in: Armenia, Austria, Bosnia & Herzegovia, Canada, China, Egypt, El Salvador, Honduras, Hong King, Iran, Iraq, Isreal, Italy, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Netherlands, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Senegal, Serbia & Montenegro, South Africa, Spain, Taiwan, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emerates, Uzbekistan, Venezuala, Yemen, Zambia & more. Source: Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children

Author

quaxlee

Date

2008-08-22T10:31:29-06:00

ID

133439

Comment

Instructive fear...otherwise known as terrorism.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-08-22T10:54:42-06:00

ID

133440

Comment

"fear can be instructive" What???

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-22T10:58:01-06:00

ID

133441

Comment

Quaxlee: Nice, unbiased source there, huh? :D Tre: Just relax, debates flow better that way. My concern is once CP is gone, what happens? Like someone has stated, expulsions and suspensions of every stripe are what the kid might want. More Seriously, how many kids are spanked in a year? I only recall the same few in my day, then they just got expelled from school after a few trips to the office. In short, most everyone behaved rather well.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-08-22T11:00:18-06:00

ID

133443

Comment

I think we sometimes forget that there is a responsibiilty of modeling in education. It's very important that students be exposed to a positive classroom/school culture. That does not mean punishment is out the window, and that's a ridiculous statement to make. Not even going to waste time playing that red herring. But what is available in school systems that produce excellent students is an academic culture that does not rely on punishment alone, but also a strong element of positivity, belongingness, etc. Otherwise, you get a group of students who only think it's wrong if caught. Or only "act right" to avoid punishment, and never learn to do the right thing for the right thing's sake. And the Rankin County bone, if thrown, won't fly with me either, because I know how little corporal punishment is actually used or encouraged to use. I feel like it's just been there to make the "spank em' 'till they act right" folks quiet and there is a parent opt out. What ends up happening, most likely, is that there are two parties who get to opt out of modeling non-violence as problem solving. The parent who tells the school to paddle them and the school who just paddles them, and the kid does not learn the PROPER behavior that would have prevented said paddling. Students who are educated in a spirit of fear will only regress socially and academically. It's hard to teach or learn critical thinking when the climate is so pavlovian.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-08-22T11:14:10-06:00

ID

133444

Comment

Instructive fear...otherwise known as terrorism. Exaggerate much? (roll eyes smiley)

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-22T11:21:00-06:00

ID

133445

Comment

I am relaxed. That "what???" was asking to clarify. I'd like an explanation of how instilling fear in children can be a good thing. Maybe if I used little smiley faces more, you can tell that I'm relaxed and not angry. ;P And Quaxlee's source doesn't matter. There is no opinion stated in her quote. It is a fact that CP is prohibited in those countries. Facts aren't biased. Now, if you think spanking is a deterrent - I disagree. When I was in school (a long time ago), it was always the same kids getting paddled every day. Just like you said - it was always the "same few." If it were a deterrent, why do the same people keep getting spanked over and over? Shouldn't they have learned their lesson the first time?

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-22T11:21:34-06:00

ID

133446

Comment

I remember this one kid when I was in third grade. He was paddled ALL the time. Yelled at ALL the time. He didn't have his homework. He wasn't dressed right. He didn't have supplies. To this day, I can hear that woman's voice yelling his name and everyone laughing. Yeah, found out later on in life that his parents had put him in a situation where he COULDN'T do his homework at night. You think paddling him and yelling for something he couldn't control made him a better student? And I don't remember him making it to graduation. Most likely, he fell behind that year on reading skills and other skills neccessary to go forward, since not only was his home life preventing his success, when he was in SCHOOL he wasn't given much opportunity to feel like a success. It was the same kids. Over and over. For the most part, kids want to do the right thing. They just don't have the skills or the resources to do it. They would love the skills and resources, and they would love to feel successful.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-08-22T11:31:21-06:00

ID

133447

Comment

Tre: It's not a deterrent if its used too frequently. Like anything, you build up a tolerance to it. You might have missed my earlier post where I mentioned it should be a "last resort" and used "sparingly". And by "fear" I mean the fear of consequences for bad behavior. There is nothing wrong with teaching a child to understand that severe misbehavior can and often will result in severe punishment by authorities. I'd rather have them learn that now under my guidance and love as their parent than at the business end of an officer's gun.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-22T11:41:13-06:00

ID

133448

Comment

[quote]That "what???" was asking to clarify. I'd like an explanation of how instilling fear in children can be a good thing. Maybe if I used little smiley faces more, you can tell that I'm relaxed and not angry. ;P[/quote] See! It's easy. I'd tell Whitely, but he's convinced I'm an evil mastermind out to get him. I'd rather not disillusion him. ;) Anyway, kids have to realize that their actions have consequences, and sometimes those consequences will be very bad. They have to have limits, barriers, or firm guides to move them along. They do not need someone saying "Oh, We can't punish kids anyway at all! That'd crush their widdle spiwits!" (I'm pretty sure no one in this group is saying this, but I've heard it elsewhere) I'm more of cynic than EmilyB here. I knew of one of the guys who was a frequent flyer to the principals office. He just was a screw-off. I was given to understand that his life had always been one of smart-alek behavior and defiance of authority even when it was in his best intersts, and he wasn't interested in making it better. They don't all have bad home lives, I guess. In short, I think it's best procedurally if schools get out of the corporal punishment gig, especially in this hyperligitious age. If the parents believe in it, let them handle their little munchkin.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-08-22T12:00:49-06:00

ID

133450

Comment

Your guidance and love as a parent is a whole different issue than the instruction and management in a school system. How do you train and educate teachers/administrators/etc. to use "guidance and love" along with corporal punishment? That starts making something as simple-sounding as a paddling into a very complicated and subjective issue. I'm also sure, as a parent, you would not paddle your kid for emotional issues or mental challenges. It doesn't read like that has been the case with corporal punishment thus far in our systems. How do you measure, or enforce, love in a school system? Especially if a "paddling" is a cheap and quick repsonse to a negative behavior that has not been proven to actually deter the behavior?

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-08-22T12:09:44-06:00

ID

133452

Comment

Emilyb, I believe the discussion has veered back and forth between home punishment vs. school punishment, so I'll swerve back in the school/corporate punishment direction. No, I do not expect a government school to "love" my child (that's my job), only to educate them. I understand that for them to provide that education, a level of order has to be maintained in the classroom. I realize in today's society that educators are challenged to find ways to maintain control over their classrooms while navigating the sensitive issues of disipline that have been discussed in this thread. I'm not opposed to some structured, regulated and sparingly used form of corporal punishment in the school. And while I think there are plenty of effective ways to discipline children such as detention, I do not think paddling should be outlawed entirely from the school system. I realize that not everyone will agree with me. Therefore, since the schools are prohibited from doing so by law or self-regulation, I exercise my right to do it for them for my children only since I think I have a good handle on how to do it effectively.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-22T12:16:57-06:00

ID

133453

Comment

Well, I disagree. I'm not for teaching them to do the right thing because they should be afraid of the punishment if they don't. As emilyb said, "do the right thing for the right thing's sake" - rewarding positives rather than punishing negatives. Quick poll: How many kids do you have? I have three: ages 2, 5, and 7

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-22T12:21:40-06:00

ID

133454

Comment

2 girls 12 and 17

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-22T12:28:06-06:00

ID

133456

Comment

son-11 And some classrooms of high schoolers. :P

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-08-22T12:36:50-06:00

ID

133458

Comment

I went to school in Madison County and if kids got into enough trouble they were given a choice of ISS (in school suspension) or a paddling. Kids almost always chose the paddling because it was over quick and in ISS you would miss tests and assignments and your parents would find out. So, paddling, really wasn't that much of a punishment to most kids anyway. I don't think banning it would make much of a difference to students' behavior either way.

Author

LaurenB

Date

2008-08-22T12:43:31-06:00

ID

133459

Comment

I have a fifteen year-old at Terry High... Comparing your experience "back in the day" to what is going on these days with children and schools is like grandma talking about how she used to walk to school in the snow after collecting eggs and feeding cows...gimme a break...and pass the kerosene on the way out. Earth to Mars...things are different now. The terrorism line was not meant to be taken literally (duh) in regards to 9/11 type "terrorism", but in the context of a teacher I knew who terrorized students by hitting them so hard in two handed baseball bat swing fashion that they would become air born. She was a lunatic and I don't believe it led to better control of her classroom. We became very crafty at doing things to her so she could not figure out who the culprits were. We hated her. I don't think any of us learned anything in her class except how to abuse her without getting caught. She deserved it. THESE days she and the district would be sued if she were not capped on the way home first.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-08-22T13:28:35-06:00

ID

133464

Comment

That can't be true, Whitley! You made that up! Corporal punishment, or spanking, isn't done with a paddle or any other kind of weapon. It's just an open-handed swat on the butt. :P ;)

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-22T13:46:09-06:00

ID

133467

Comment

That is funny. It's a Pandora's box. You have to consider what the worst case scenario of opening that box will be. Most administrators may be loving and kind with the students' best interest at heart. Here and there you will find a sadist who, to paraphrase the administration in DC, will relish using extradordinary techniques in order to extract compliance from their more difficult customers.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-08-22T13:57:11-06:00

ID

133471

Comment

Although humorous, the story is a good lead in to ONE of the many problems with spanking/physical punishment. That is, spanking is subjective. Even though I disagree, spanking being an open handed swat to the butt, not the end of the world. Other parents though, may view spanking with a belt or extension cord, etc. to be acceptable spanking. Now, I understand the 2 witnesses is probably specifically to keep spanking within reson, but let's think bigger. If we spank at schools, parents get the message spanking is ok & spank at home - without 2 witnesses. I know DHS exists to handle "child abuse", but that is a failing system!!! Those of us who are caring, thoughtful parents, should advocate for caring, thoughful practices within the educational system. I seriously doubt the children of those of us on this board are at risk for excessive physical punishment, but whose to say our neighbors children aren't?? Go back to teacahing/modeling - what we are willing to accept as a society. Violence against children - in any form - should not be tolerated! And certainly not condoned by the public education system!

Author

quaxlee

Date

2008-08-22T14:09:16-06:00

ID

133492

Comment

Amen. DHS is underfunded to such a degree as to officially sanction a certain amount of child abuse. What our state says, through its current DHS funding, is "we're going to tolerate a certain amount of physical abuse, sexual molestation, and child neglect because it's just not worth the expense to address these problems." In that kind of climate, additional physical "punishment" isn't really what kids need. The answer is to hire enough social workers to actually run a full-service DHS. Until we do that, giving more adults license to arbitrarily hit kids with things seems not only counterproductive, but a little bit ridiculous.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-08-23T03:06:22-06:00

ID

133658

Comment

That is a vast generalization about young people, baquan, and extremely offensive. I'm more impressed with young people today in their teens, and even tweens, than I ever have been. And the numbers bear it out: they are less violent and more focused than in recent generations. It's adults (especially middle-agers) who are the real screw-ups ... in many cases. Paddling doesn't teach the "fear of God"—it teaches to solve your problems with force and violence. You know, like shooting an unarmed person in the back for shoplifting.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-08-27T15:04:10-06:00

ID

133659

Comment

Or for selling bad weed. Or for sleeping with your girlfriend. Or... Right. We teach the same pro-violence message with the Iraq War and the death penalty, too, not to mention when leaders go around releasing folks who murdered their wives. We're very effective killers, and it's a wonder young folks who have to rely on us as models aren't more violent than they are. Besides, the peak of bad youth behavior was the late 80s/early 90s--which means those hopeless young people everybody wanted to get rid of are now in their thirties and forties and running the world. Teens today are less violent, less likely to become criminals, less likely to use drugs, less likely to have sex and more likely to use protection if they do than teens in the past. DiIulio's "superpredators" theory has not stood the test of time. And beating up on a misbehaving kid to "put the fear of God in him" is about as effective as throwing a laptop against the wall because the space bar is stuck. Good to see you the other day, BTW, Donna. You might be amused to hear that over the past few days I've made first-time visits to four Jackson spots I'd never eaten/drank/danced at before--High Noon Cafe, Sal & Mookies, Dick & Jane's, and Wired Espresso Cafe. I recommend them all! Sure, I had to dodge hails of gunfire from all those scary youth, but the paddle I carry on my belt kept them at bay.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-08-27T15:28:32-06:00

ID

133662

Comment

Baquan, it's simple really: You generalized about all young people with statements like these: Discipline does not work any more on kids, whether it is beating them or putting them in time out. Young men do not know how to open doors for old women anymore, they do not know how to say excuse me, if they want to ask a stranger a question. You didn't say "some" young men; you said "young men." If you want to say something different than that, then say it; don't blame others for taking you at your word. All generations of youth, and adults, have problems. I deal with all sorts of young people on a regular basis, and it is near impossible to get them not to say "ma'am" or "sir" to me, regardless of which high school they went to. Obviously, there are troubled young people, but you do not help a single one of them by stereotyping an entire generation of young people. You hurt them when you do that. Funny you bring up Columbine and the other school shootings. Are you aware that during the time of those school shootings and to the present, schools are the safest places for young people in the country? That crime committed by youth (but not against them by adults) was and is at an all-time low? That the least safe place for young people is in their own homes with their own families? If you didn't know it, then take the time to find out. I'm no more patient with someone today bashing all young people than I am with the white people of my hometown believing that all black people were violent and unintelligent when I was growing up. My focus in my life and my career is standing up for people of color and for young people against statements such as yours. You and others should know that when you come to my site and make those kinds of sweeping statements about young people. Ignorant statements such as yours about a whole generation of youth is harmful to them. If you want to help individual young people in need, then do it. But don't go around acting as if they all fit the stereotype you're carrying around. They don't. Not even the ones at Callaway, Lanier, Wingfield, Jim Hill, Provine and Bailey.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-08-27T16:12:20-06:00

ID

133663

Comment

you mentioned people should try to find out what is really going on with this generation. Damn right I did. And any given day, you will find up to 20 young people in their teens and 20s in my offices, many from those high schools you disparaged. (Right now, a group of high-schoolers from Jim Hill and other schools are gathering in my classroom here to discuss exactly this kind of stereotyping of their generation, in fact.) Many of them deal with tough circumstances at home, many don't have cars to get here in, many leave here and then go to jobs to help support their families. They are frustrated at the kinds of generalizations about them and their friends that you just made. And they should be.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-08-27T16:15:29-06:00

ID

133664

Comment

The kids I've met from the Jim Hill Civil Liberties Club are SCARY smart (they're not just the future; they're ready and able to get out and do stuff now), and the idea that anyone would consider "paddling" any of them if one of them stays in the hall talking to a friend too long or Tasering them or tackling and searching them for contraband Advil or what have you is ludicrous. We treat public school kids like DIRT in this country and they still do pretty damn well on average.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-08-27T16:33:08-06:00

ID

133665

Comment

A lot of kids in all our schools are "scary smart." Many just haven't had the chance to prove it, yet. On the not-know-how-to-ask-a-stranger-a-question point -- how many strangers are completely freaked out by a young black man approaching them for anything, even if just to ask directions!?! Melton et al going around yapping about their earrings and their baggy pants doesn't help anything; it just pushes the stereotype.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-08-27T17:17:58-06:00

ID

133669

Comment

Agreed. I think part of the issue is that most adults aren't around that many teenagers, and this goes double when you're talking about white adults and black teenagers. And let's be blunt: odds are nobody's visualizing white kids when they say "put the fear of God in 'em," especially not in a 93% black public school district. I don't see a whole lot of calls for paddles and Tasers at Jackson Academy.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-08-27T21:10:27-06:00

ID

133692

Comment

baquan, reread my quoted comment and look for the word "baquan." You won't find it because I wasn't talking about you; I was talking about people who do damage on this issue beyond making comments on blogs that sound like the world's worst retooling of "The Greatest Love of All," e.g.: "I believe the children are our future; beat them until they're terrified, and shoot them to death if they steal anything. Show them all the beauty they possess insiiiide..."

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-08-28T12:14:05-06:00

ID

133700

Comment

In my day paddling was ok for the teacher to do. I have seen mostly boys beaten down by the teacher. If this would happen today I am afraid we would have some dead teachers. No one knows what is going on in some of these households that causes the bad behavior we see today. Children have guns and are not afraid to use them on who ever they preceive to do them harm. I think paddling should be left up to the parents. Why would we want to put our teachers at risk when some of these kids would shoot or beat their own parent if they tried to hit them. This is a complex problem that I don't think we should put on the teacher. When mine were in school I told the teachers if they got out of hand just let me or husband know and we would take care of them. It worked no problem from kids because they knew that we would not beat them but we knew enough abut each one to hurt him where it would hurt the most. ex I have one who lived and breathed sports of all kind whe he was grounded and not allowed to leave his room for a week that got his attention especially when it occurance upped the time in room. Knowing your child helps to keep them straight. Whippings don't I know I got enough of them growing up did nothing for my mind set but make me slicker. I still did what i wanted to do.

Author

jada

Date

2008-08-28T14:41:52-06:00

ID

133702

Comment

There is a school district in Texas that has allowed teachers to carry guns, which is crazy if you ask me. But I guess if they need guns they just need them. Paddling was alright in my day too. The last whipping I thoroughly remember getting from a teacher only involved three licks. A known teacher would lead you into a dark room. The next thing to occur is someone unknown and unseen says bend over while pushing your upper body over a desk and holding you down. You're then hit hard on the backside 3 or 4 times by someone you never sees. I don't know anyone who earned a re-entry to the Temple of Near Doom back then. I doubt this would work this day and time. We speculated yearly about who the real punishers were and never knew for sure. All I know is we considered it good news everytime a male teacher died of natural or unknown causes. So far as I know, none of us were involved in either cause.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-08-28T15:19:33-06:00

ID

133704

Comment

Walt, did those licks make you a better student or just a smarter one. Learning how to do what you wanted without being caught or did they stop you from behaving badly? Did any of you stop or change behavior due to paddlings or what ever you call hitting a child. I don't want some stranger hitting my child I think that is my duty if it is to be done. That spare the rod and spoil the child is just a crock of s---.

Author

jada

Date

2008-08-28T19:50:31-06:00

ID

133706

Comment

Walt, the Texas school that is allowing teachers to carry guns makes sense. Remember the asst. principal at Pearl got a gun from his car and stopped Woodham as he was trying to leave the school. Schools, colleges and churchs have been gun free zones that are prime targets of crazys. They are not going to go to a donut shops where are the cops are and start shooting, they are going to where they can kill the most unarmed people with no resistance and have the best chance to get away before the police arrive. Short of putting a policeman in every class don't you think a few armed teachers with the proper training is the best thing to protect the kids?

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-28T22:17:49-06:00

ID

133707

Comment

Did any of you stop or change behavior due to paddlings or what ever you call hitting a child. Yes.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-29T06:37:24-06:00

ID

133711

Comment

I think it helped some, Jada. You have to remember that I was raised well with the fear of God and adults already in me. I certainly didn't want another one of those whippings, and I didn't like for people knowing I had done something that required being sent in that room. All I had done was talk in the calss room when I was supposed to have been quiet. I certainly became more discipline and aware of the consequences of my acts. Had I been a sick child with some type of learning disability or attention deficit problems I doubt it would have mattered. I don't want some stranger whipping on my child either, and most especially someone who may hate or dislike him. Actually, a white coach gave me 3 licks at Madison and Ridgeland High for something I wasn't even guilty of. I thought about turning and cold-cocking him the whole time to let him know I wasn't letting any low-life bigot hit me with or without purpose or cause. I took the licks only to graduate without hitches. It was the right thing to do because he in good faith thought I had done something wrong. He even told me he wasn't sure he was right. I respected him for admitting this.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-08-29T07:53:19-06:00

ID

133724

Comment

Oh. My. God. I can't believe some of the comments I am reading here. I am not going to get in a huge, drawn out argument here, but I will just say that I believe it is NEVER ok for a teacher or a parent to hit a child. Never. ...and don't get me started on the topic of arming everybody in the schools to make it safer! Yeah, that is what we need to make us safe... more guns! That is just insane.

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-29T08:56:36-06:00

ID

133729

Comment

Well, as you have said in the other topic... we'll agree to disagree.

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-29T09:12:49-06:00

ID

133734

Comment

The school district in Texas is not arming every teacher. The school has no local law enforcement and is located 30 minutes from the nearest sheriffs department. They are going to let teachers who have qualified for a concealed hand permit,received training in crisis management and hostile situations,and have to have permission from the school board to carry. There are alot of universities considering the same thing with their teachers and allowing students that have conceal carry permits to carry on campus.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-08-29T09:18:14-06:00

ID

133788

Comment

It amazes me the things we come up with. Look back in the day when we were youngsters we lived by the notion that IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD. If the problem is that parents don't trust school officials to discipline there children within reason and fairness,then we need to focus on getting the right people in the right jobs that can handle the job. Parents can't take off work to paddle their kids as needed. So why not allow the proper school officials to do it. In my opinion some parents should consider themselves fortunate to have others look after their children's behavior since they aren't doing it. These very kids who need it have learned that they will receive no punishment at all for acting up and disrupting others from getting their edcuation. Why? BEcause mommy and daddy won't do it and they won't let anyone else do it. What happens -- these kids suffer! If I could trust that the person who is paddling my son is doing it because he needs it and deserved it and didn't have to worry about it becoming abuse...then I most certainly would ASK that my child be dealt with according to his actions. These parents today don't want to discipline the kids and don't want anyone else to do it - they are setting their kids up for failure because they are missing the lessons they should be learning from being punished. It's ridiculous.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-08-29T12:14:49-06:00

ID

133797

Comment

The thing about trusting teachers when you don't know these people are already trusting them when you send your child to school.. So many people of trust have failed statutory rape comes to mind, pediphelia another. We have always put our trust in teachers only to find many are abusers of children. Hw do you know one of them may get a thrill out of hitting. We don't know what anyone will do given the chance. I would rather handle the hitting myself.

Author

jada

Date

2008-08-29T12:30:10-06:00

ID

133837

Comment

You have a point jada. Sure, we can't be sure in many areas of life. I'm sure you're not the only person that would like to handle the hitting instead of another. But let me tell you what you risk in that. If a child does something that needs correcting or handling right then, if it goes without being handle RIGHT THEN, it looses the attention of the child. Now unless you can be there shortly after, the child, in most cases won't get that punishment they need due to long hard days at work and the fact that the situation has subsided by the time you get home from work. That child's mind has completely left that action that he/she participated in. Thus, no lesson learned. And the child will likely repeat the action since it has not been handled at all. You may not be in this situation. you may have a workable system in place. But I can tell you that i know many parents who fall in this category who's children are in constant trouble at school. CONSTANT. They are not getting the education school is set up to provide because their time is spent in detention or the principal's office. When, a paddling right then and there could cause an immediate change in action. If a child knows that they won't get in trouble until their parent gets to them and then probably won't because the parent wont' do it, what makes you think they'll even think twice about becoming a habitual trouble child. And once that happens teachers' tolerance level lessens. They know this child is going to be a problem, so the least little thing they do, then becomes a big thing and down the hall to the principals office they go. Then you're getting calls every day and having to go up to the school regularly. You'd be surprized the affect one paddling can do for the correction of this kind of behavior. And don't get me wrong...if it were me, I'd STILL handle my child even after he gets it at school. Simply because I feel like that's my responsiblity. I would love for the school to do what they need to do to gain control of my child while he's there. But the fact that while in my absence my child would have the audacity to "cut up" in someone else's care...that's a no no. My son would get it twice and every other time I thought about it, he'd probably get it again. I grew up knowing that whatever you might possibly get away with at home - don't go to someone else's house and get in trouble. My parent's didn't play that. Particularly, I remember once my sister and a friend of ours were partipating in some not-so-responsible activities. They wouldn't let me participate so I told it. They got "it". Not smart enough to leave well enough a lone, I commensed to trying that very same action thinking I wouldn't get in trouble since I told it. A LIE. I got it from the mother of the friend, my mother when she got home AND my father after he got home. I have NEVER AGAIN participated in that particular act....others similar...yes, but not that one. Same thing goes for the schools who spend a great deal of time with these kids - about as much as a neighbor or this mother did with my sister and I. Same thing.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-08-29T15:08:02-06:00

ID

133838

Comment

Jada makes a good point. My wife stated a while back that if another male other than a close family member ever laid a hand or paddle to our little girl, he'd wake up in a hospital needing to have said paddle surgically removed from his rectum.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-29T15:12:54-06:00

ID

133844

Comment

Just to clarify: I'm not against punishing children when they misbehave. I think hitting children, teacher or parent, is wrong.

Author

Tre

Date

2008-08-29T15:34:55-06:00

ID

133846

Comment

Baquan, I'm with you on that. I don't want a male teacher paddling my little girl at all, but I have no problem with a female teacher. Especially with all of the regulations I mentioned in my 08/21 @ 1:16 pm post.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-08-29T15:42:31-06:00

ID

133857

Comment

To each it's own, but I got it bad when i acted up and I am absolutely, without any doubt, certain that I'm a fine young lady because of it. Thank you mama for taggin' my butt when I needed it!!!!!! She's the best and I am eternally greatful to her for it.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-08-29T16:22:16-06:00