Jackson Free Press

[Promoted from forums] If approved by a commission studying the issue, the museum would be built on the college's property off County Line Road, west of I-55 and south of I-220.

Previous Comments

ID

98438

Comment

Thats a double ended sword... while Jackson does not need another public building that does not pay taxes ... I believe this museum should be downtown. Museums in rural areas are not as successful as one in urban settings. Its a shame.

Author

Concerned in Jacktown

Date

2008-02-13T17:22:43-06:00

ID

98439

Comment

No tax dollars but when people would have visited the downtown site that brings money, and really it would be in ridgeland and benefit them more than jackson, your right its a shame.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-13T17:49:12-06:00

ID

98440

Comment

I sure would question the motives of the Downtown Partners, and other downtown groups, that aren't pushing the legislators harder to put it downtown. Can you say gentrification?

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-13T17:52:47-06:00

ID

98441

Comment

Pike i agree where are the downtown interest groups, where you at Ben Allen this is another dumb decision, like the new FBI building built out there and when you go to any other major city the attractions are DOWNTOWN and we wonder why people are not seen downtown at night they are on county line road or somewhere near tougaloo.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-13T18:05:45-06:00

ID

98442

Comment

The whole goal is to have a Civil Rights Trail that would take you to all kinds of sites around MS, with the museum being the crown jewel. I think Tougaloo College should be recognized and a part of that Trail. Nothing should be left out. But, it sure looks like Downtown will be!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-13T18:12:44-06:00

ID

98443

Comment

Ridgeland would benefit from the museum more than Downtown Jackson, have yall heard the radio spots from Madison county chamber of commerce claiming tougaloo college as its own. I thought Tougaloo was in Jackson. So if the Museum is going to be on Tougaloo's land than its not going to be in JACKSON. BHAM's Civil rights museum is in DOWNTOWN BHAM not in their suburbs.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-13T18:22:41-06:00

ID

98444

Comment

im telling yall...these folks aint playin...at all...listen...people can say what they wanna...i believe in my heart of heart people are trying to destroy jackson...hard to believe that madison county will be home to a civil rights museum...i truly do believe they want to be the new capital...its a shame the state government is not making a sound about this...but its not suprising...keep shopping at northpark and go out to pf changs...youre killing this city... skipp for mayor '09 "he cant do no worse"

Author

skipp

Date

2008-02-13T19:16:53-06:00

ID

98445

Comment

Why wouldn't it be put downtown skipp? Thats my question DT should get preferred treatment just because its the state capital seat. I worked at a hotel Downtown as a bellman and if you give a visitor directions as complicated as trying to get to tougaloo they always say "NEVERMIND IS THERE ANYTHING CLOSER LIKE RITE IN DOWNTOWN" they rather stay in the hotel than travel that far.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-13T19:31:00-06:00

ID

98446

Comment

Good point NewJack. Also, as long as State St is a barren depressed road you won't get many people to go back if they even visit it at all. From Fondren to County Line there isn't much in the way of places to visit along the way. I'm not knocking the businesses along the route, just the fact that visitors would take a taxi or drive straight there and straight back.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-13T19:43:26-06:00

ID

98447

Comment

Why don't you guys call John Horne and Hillman Frazier- they are both on the committee. Personally, I think it should be downtown too- maybe an "anchor" location for all the stuff that is supposed to happen on Farish Street. It would be really cool if it was within walking distance of the King Edward.

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-13T19:51:57-06:00

ID

98448

Comment

I thought Tougaloo was in Jackson. I've wondered this myself. Most local maps have Tougaloo on the Madison County side of W. County Line. But it's so darn close.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-02-13T20:04:34-06:00

ID

98449

Comment

see if you look at this site and the comments people make typically its fondren and downtown...i dont buy it all people that stay in... it should be in downtown...just like all these other developments should be downtown... "people in jackson only elect the mayor and they get it wrong too many times" ever heard this statement...i have several times and i dont expect that to change... the reality is that the capital is jackson but people (i.e. suburbanites) rarely see this point...mississippi is so bass ackwards that people just cannot or will not acknowledge that to make this state healthy is going to take the capital being healthy as the state goes so goes the capital and vice versa...tougaloo is in madison county...but everything didnt happen at tougaloo... we already have the civil rights trail and most people dont even acknowledge it...jackson state is knocking so much of it down...the reality is that as long as jackson dollars go to madison madison grows...if youre not buying jackson then what is the point...i dont even go to the movies unless i leave the state...im with my city till the end...are any of you???

Author

skipp

Date

2008-02-13T20:16:00-06:00

ID

98450

Comment

Can WE pressure them to reconsider, before a brick is laid, this would be a coveted asset to jackson if put downtown. John Horhn is a fool

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-13T20:32:16-06:00

ID

98451

Comment

Ridgeland was recently given the tougaloo area by a judge who said Ridgeland is more progressive than Jackson so thats why tougaloo is in Madison now and Madison is capitalizing on Tougaloo college now. The Museum should be in Dowtown, anyone has sen john horhn number.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-13T20:35:54-06:00

ID

98452

Comment

I've often wondered about that- Tougaloo has it's own Post Office (on the Jxn side of W County Line, but Tougaloo proper is in Madison County. :hmmm

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2008-02-13T21:56:23-06:00

ID

98453

Comment

I think that depends on your definition of "Tougaloo". The Tougaloo College campus is located in Madison County, while the area and community known as Tougaloo includes the neighborhoods south and north of the college that covers both Madison County (Ridgeland) and Hinds County (Jackson). That might explain why the post office is located off-campus because it serves the entire community and not just the college.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-14T08:23:24-06:00

ID

98454

Comment

I agree... something is going on here. They note in the article parking... but what about hotel space? It seems to me downtown easily caters better to the Musuem and tourist crowd than anywhere in Madison county. With the king Edward and other hotels proposed downtown... how can they pass that up? I last recall the project costing around 100 million... or more. As large that museum will be, whatever Microtel Madison has will not be able to support it. This seems a bad business move for the museum and a bad deal for Jackson. Also, I never understand planning by people of power in this state. Why put a tourist attraction in the middle of nowhere? Its like the craftsman's guild museum in Ridgeland. WHY? No one can find it and once there you just leave. Downtown is much better because there is other things to see and visit.

Author

Concerned in Jacktown

Date

2008-02-14T09:22:03-06:00

ID

98455

Comment

From the horse's mouth: Tougaloo College is in Madison county and is its own incorporated entity. It is not "in" any other city.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-14T09:29:57-06:00

ID

98456

Comment

Just as the suburbs benefit when Jackson does well, I believe the whole are will benefit from this placement. Besides: Tougaloo played a large part in the Civil Rights movement. I can think of no better place to have the Museum.

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2008-02-14T11:15:27-06:00

ID

98457

Comment

It's only coincidental that Tougaloo College sits on the line of Madison County. Beleive me, we consider ourselves Jacksononians, not Madison Countians. I'm an everloving proud and bias in favor of Tougaloo College graduate, but would not object to the museum being in Jackson (other than Tougaloo College) as long as the intent, purpose and display of it isn't compromised to show Mississippi in a false or more pleasant light. I'm convinced the truth would be told if Tougaloo College has anything to do with it. Otherwise, it would be protested and run off, unless we have different kinds of students these days than in our glorious past.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-14T11:30:14-06:00

ID

98458

Comment

...what does Smith Robertson cover again? I know it' been ages since I've been, but I was under the impression it covered Civil Rights.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-02-14T13:40:01-06:00

ID

98459

Comment

Ray Carter and lady havoc yall both might have vested interest in tougaloo but iam telling yall its better downtown. Thats whats wrong with Mississippi people dnt see the bigger picture, whats good for everyone, not for some who feel a certain way because their interest will be represented. In Mississippi everything is spread out not in one location thats why we dnt have any place as a focal point.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-14T13:57:21-06:00

ID

98460

Comment

NewJack didn't I say I would support it being in Jackson other than at Tougaloo College?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-14T14:03:46-06:00

ID

98461

Comment

I know yall love the 'Loo and so do i...i went to jackson state and you know what the rapper say bout yall women...i kid i kid...however, to say that putting it on the campus of tougaloo makes me think that tougaloo is the cradle of the MS movement...that is inaccurate...some of the most active students were kicked out of jackson state...being private is how students were able to be so active...but again tougaloo is private...with both the benefits and the limitations that are inherrent... it should be in jackson...tennesse memphis...alabama birmingham.... mississippi tougaloo college....mississippi madison county...mississippi hattiesburg...get real skipper for mayor '09 "at least he dont wanna be a cop"

Author

skipp

Date

2008-02-14T16:41:06-06:00

ID

98462

Comment

I agree with skipp. As much as I respect the history of Tougaloo, this isn't the best decision.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-14T16:45:21-06:00

ID

98463

Comment

Skip, Jackson State was a public run college run by a racist college board and a president who couldn't kiss enough white behind in those days, so the students weren't allowed to participate in Civil Rights demostations. Until President People became the president of Jackson State, I doubt Jackson State students had a president on the side of the students or civil rights, I hate to say. Joyce Ladner, one of the more famous Tougaloo graduates, was a Jackson State student before leaving and coming to Tougaloo where she could fight the fight of civil rights. How many times do I need to say as a Tougaloo graduate I think the museum should be in Jackson, downtown Jackson is my preference. Also, Skipp, I'm still looking for Banner for making that derogatory statement about Tougaloo women. Do you know where I can find him?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-14T17:16:01-06:00

ID

98464

Comment

NewJackson:"In Mississippi everything is spread out not in one location thats why we dnt have any place as a focal point. Couldn't agree more. What if they had the state fair here and put the ferris wheel by the YMCA, the Zipper out on Boling Street, and the corn dog stand down on Highway 80 somewhere? I like Tougaloo and all, but it sure seems like the museum itself would be more successful in a downtown location- I don't care what some Tennessee experts say...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-14T18:38:52-06:00

ID

98465

Comment

probably in the trap...thats where the rappers hang out with the other gz and the hoez...theyre comfortable there...mr. carter that was my point exactly...im not saying you disagree...im just saying that tougaloo was not a magical place where the troublemakers were created...it was a haven where the state college board couldnt control...until they managed to put enough pressure on bidle(sp) and run him out of town...i wonder will this museum really expose some of the realities of ms's past...clyde kennard, james meridith, medgar evers, herbert lee, charles evers, its just sooooo much to say...oh well...remember merediths statue's inscription at ole miss

Author

skipp

Date

2008-02-14T18:55:22-06:00

ID

98466

Comment

Ray calm down and help us get it built downtown

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-14T19:32:03-06:00

ID

98467

Comment

I'm a Tougaloo grad, and I say the museum should be downtown.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-14T19:39:15-06:00

ID

98468

Comment

I have thought for years they should put a museum in at the old Woolworth's on Capital street with an original lunch counter. Of course, they could put the civil rights museum in the Old Capital or out at the Evers house.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-15T11:48:00-06:00

ID

98469

Comment

Yep, Todd says that, too. Or even some sort of statue of it outside. What I'm hearing is that museum "powers" (not from in town) wanted a pastoral setting. I also hear that they considered some much worse possibilities that they had to be talked out of. More soon on all that.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-15T11:52:19-06:00

ID

98470

Comment

My vote, if I had one, would be for a Downtown location. It only makes sense. I think that more people would vist in the downtown location.

Author

justjess

Date

2008-02-15T12:17:33-06:00

ID

98471

Comment

Wille's suggestion is very appealing to me. I can't picture where Woolworth used to be. I visited the museums in in Memphis, Atlanta, Birmingham and Selma. I want to visit the one in Detroit.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-15T12:26:16-06:00

ID

98472

Comment

This is a clear example of the piss-poor leadership we have in Jackson. Why haven't we heard Melton screaming at the top of his smoke addled lungs about Downtown being snubbed? I'll tell you why... Because he could give a rats ass about the plight of those who fought the good fight in Mississippi or anywhere else in this country. My understanding is one of the reasons this stellar, out of State, company picked Tougaloo over the downtown locations is because of the blight in Downtown. I guess they didn't take into account the $2 billion in development going on around Downtown? Call me when the Mid-South Auto Auction is removed! Or the ratty used appliance repair shop, which looks like an appliance grave yard, on State St is gone! Wouldn't it be nice if after you go to the museum you could turn the corner and go to a restaurant on Farish St or in one of the new buildings/developments? Yep, sure would be! But, some underhanded jockeying was going on between some locals and the consultants for it to be moved so Madison can claim it as their own!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-15T13:46:56-06:00

ID

98473

Comment

Is there anyway possible since the site is just a recommendation, the person that has the final say can decide that the Museum be put downtown. I thought the idea was to bring new projects Downtown to help make Downtown vibrant not continue to thwart those efforts by not adding to Downtown. And whats senator john horhns number?

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-15T13:56:18-06:00

ID

98474

Comment

The C-L throws its support behind A Downtown Location For the MUSEUM. http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080216/OPINION01/802160308/1007

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-16T09:22:00-06:00

ID

98475

Comment

I've only read one person on this thread in full support of Tougaloo as the location. Is there anyone who is willing to wholeheartedly support Tougaloo as the location, and why is it better than Downtown Jackson? It would be interesting to see what arguments they have in support of the selection. And no Ray, I'm not looking for the devil's advocate answer. ;-) Someone out there said this would be a good choice besides the firm in TN, so let's hear from them! And, if this isn't a slight at JSU, then I don't know what is?

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-18T10:07:20-06:00

ID

98476

Comment

I still think the term "Museum" should not be applied to this structure......the Civil rights struggle is alive and well. It's not a museum. It can have a historical archival aspect but It's a Civil Rights "Center". I think it would be best in the city center and nearer to "J" State for the educational leaning. Tougaloo is a private college let's remember. Not knocking private historical Black colleges but they are an aspect of Black History and not the central core of the civil rights movement. Does the Alabama Cival Rights "Center" belong in Birmingham, Montgomery or Tuskegee............My 2 cents for what it is worth.

Author

ATLExile

Date

2008-02-18T11:37:39-06:00

ID

98477

Comment

LADD any word that the recommendation of the tougaloo site as the place for the civil rights museum will be the final decision or will smarter heads prevail and is there any kind of way that pressure and popular opinion changes the minds of the panel.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-18T14:32:04-06:00

ID

98478

Comment

I don't know, NewJack. We're looking into it. I think it's important that has many people as possible speak out about it if you want it downtown. Also, I've heard that Bevery Hogan of Tougaloo was on the location committee. Anybody else know if that's true? Seems odd, if so. Perhaps she recused?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-18T14:41:40-06:00

ID

98479

Comment

Ladd it would be a shame if its not put downtown, what another piece to the downtown Puzzle this Museum would be and just think when the Convention Center opens up and we have big conventions the Museum would be another venue besides the Art Museum that conventioners can go to. I just Dont know why this state refuses to step into the FUTURE.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-18T14:49:21-06:00

ID

98480

Comment

I don't think it sends the right message about the state—why in the world would we "hide" our civil-rights history on a private, black campus (no matter how great that school is)?!? It worries me a bit that people are making decisions for the wrong reasons—OK, we'll have a civil-rights museum in Mississippi, but we're not going to put it where it will draw the most diverse array of people? I hope we're not saying more of the same-old-same-old here. Who's afraid of putting the museum in the middle of downtown Jackson? And why has this process been so secretive so far? Every person associated with it needs to stand up and be counted and explain the rationale behind their decision. It's time to let the sun shine in -- or people, inside and outside Mississippi, are going to start wondering what went on behind the curtain. Frankly, I would think that Hogan, et al., would want to see it downtown. I'm very surprised by this announcement. Just when you thought we were making progress, we get shot in the foot by old-style politics. No wonder we stay No. 50.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-18T15:10:45-06:00

ID

98481

Comment

Someone is probably making some money on the deal... Here is the list of members of the commission per Gov. Barbours web site. It doesn't say who is on what committee; but, start your phone calls anyway.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-18T15:21:02-06:00

ID

98482

Comment

i need some numbers people please post them i got a cell in one and a house phone and another. please iam ready to blast some people.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-18T15:28:58-06:00

ID

98483

Comment

NewJackson, it's probably not good policy to post phone numbers on the website unless they are public officials. I'd recommend the phone book over the blogs for this...

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-18T15:38:38-06:00

ID

98484

Comment

I do mean public numbers we have a rite to call our representatives.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-18T15:41:39-06:00

ID

98485

Comment

Well, for the best tourism dollars, it oughta go up next to the Golden Moon and the Silver Star (but I'll bet that a lot of white Neshobans would not want that kind of tourism).

Author

footsy

Date

2008-02-18T17:27:53-06:00

ID

98486

Comment

Footsy be logical, it should be in jackson and downtown period.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-18T17:34:01-06:00

ID

98487

Comment

Your "period" at the end of your comeback sounds like you want me to stop my comments. Stifling conversation, especially if it has its own rationale, is counter to what the blog is here for. My argument has logic behind it, as well, and deserves consideration. I say that in the vicinity of the casinos puts it close to hotels and out-of-state tourists. Most important, the Neshoba County location would put the museum within a couple of miles of one of Mississippi's most infamous moments in the black freedom struggle.

Author

footsy

Date

2008-02-18T17:41:19-06:00

ID

98488

Comment

FYI...Not only Beverly Hogan but Judge Rueben Anderson AND Fred Banks were on the committee.Tougaloo grads ANd on the Board of Directors at tougaloo. John Horne is with them and Ed blackman is in support and HE'S a tougaloo grad. something's fishy. can we start a petition and take it to the Governor?

Author

trusip

Date

2008-02-18T18:12:05-06:00

ID

98489

Comment

Just keep talking, footsy. NewJack isn't stifling you, unless you let him. He's just adamant about his own point here.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-18T23:11:43-06:00

ID

98490

Comment

Also, trusip, sure you can start a petition. We could consider doing another online one like we did to call for the prosecution of Edgar Ray Killen if enough people think it's a good idea. I happen to think it sends a pretty positive message that such a diverse mixture of people as the people posting here want the museum in downtown Jackson where it'll get the most exposure. And as much as I respect Judges Banks and Anderson, they would seem to have quite the conflict if they are really on the board of directors at Tougaloo. I really look forward to more sun shining on the process to date and how we got to this point. Does anyone have a list handy of all the locations that were considered? And what were the criteria for choosing the location?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-18T23:15:13-06:00

ID

98491

Comment

Four words: Will this help Tougaloo? Because if it will, I can see the case for it. Tougaloo is a struggling institution; it was on SACS probation within the past decade; the possibility that it could go under is very, very real. So while I'd rather see the civil rights museum downtown, I would be willing to swallow the bitter pill of putting it in Madison County by Tougaloo if it could keep the college afloat.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T04:24:08-06:00

ID

98492

Comment

By "could go under" I'm speaking long-term; there are no financial problems that I know of that would bring down the college within the next, say, five years, but small, privately-owned HBCUs in general are hurting right now, and we need to keep Tougaloo around.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T04:25:29-06:00

ID

98493

Comment

The purpose of the National Civil Rights Museum is to tell the story of the civil rights struggle in Mississippi. It is not to help save any particular institution or to enhance their attractiveness. No one denies Tougaloo's effectiveness in the struggle nor its place in Mississippi's history as well as in our future. The same could be said for Jackson State and other sites. BUT, in order for the Museum to serve the most people, it shoud be located where the most people can easily attend. This would be, IMHO, Downtown Jackson. We have numerous sites available in the Downtown area. Someone asked earlier about Smith-Robertson. It is a wonderful old building that was once a school and is used for art exhibits as well as for meetings. I don't believe it is large enough to do what the new place is planing to do. But, if they were located fairly close, they would enhance each other. As far as Tougaloo's (the school) being in Madison County, it always has been. Anything north of County Line Road is in Madison County, but for many years now it has also been part of the City of Jackson. Someone posted above about a judge placing several things inside of Ridgeland (including one mile of the Highland Colony Parkway) but I believe the actual campus of Tougaloo stayed in Jackson. Will the proposed Museum be in the Jackson portion?

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-02-19T05:49:13-06:00

ID

98494

Comment

well lets do that Donna! start it up..and please look into it further. Im sure theres other things brewing with this. who was on the board? was the community properly represented? what were the sights? we want to know and jfp is probably the only place to get that.

Author

trusip

Date

2008-02-19T10:09:33-06:00

ID

98495

Comment

I was in D.C. last summer and I spent 2 days touring all the musuems that are in close proximity to each other downtown, Native American, Holocaust, Smithsonian, you name it, I saw it. But guess what I didn't see, Cedar Hill, home of Frederick Douglass. Wanted to see it, but it was going to take up too much of my tour day to get out there and I only had 2 days to tour. If a tourist only has a few hours to spend in Jackson, then it makes a whole lot more sense to have as many of the attractions conveniently located as possible. Why isn't the City of Jackson lobbying more strongly to have the musuem downtown. I'm beginning to believe that they don't know their $&* from a hole in the ground. You have a unique opportunity to ehance your city, pay homage to its civil rights legacy and also avail yourself of tourist dollars. plzzzzz would someone please use some common sense!!!

Author

lanier77

Date

2008-02-19T11:55:52-06:00

ID

98496

Comment

I hear what y'all are saying, but it's not in Jackson's long-term best interests to lose Tougaloo. If the Civil Rights Museum can help bring development to that area and keep Tougaloo afloat, then I say it's worth it. Your mileage may vary, but I can't really see a Jackson without Tougaloo. It's part of who we are.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T13:07:17-06:00

ID

98497

Comment

Tom, this issue is not, and cannot, be about "losing" Tougaloo (which I didn't know was an issue anyway). If Tougaloo needs community help to survive, they should ask for it. The problem here is that the first real civil-rights museum in the state needs to be somewhere very public and central to a diverse array of people so that as many people as possible can be educated about our history. The fate of Tougaloo is a different conversation.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T13:27:16-06:00

ID

98498

Comment

Now that is a good idea, putting it someplace where everyone can find it. Tougaloo isn't hard to find, mind you, but it needs to be more central to where everyone would go to look for something like this.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-02-19T13:31:43-06:00

ID

98499

Comment

The fate of Tougaloo is obviously not a different conversation to the folks who chose a location for the museum. While I recognize that DJP would have done things differently, building up the community around Tougaloo is not part of DJP's mandate.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T13:38:54-06:00

ID

98500

Comment

Tom Head JSU needs a football stadium on campus to help support the school and save its athletic department do you care about that and my question to you is why do you support Tougaloo so much on this issue are you apart of the Alumni? whats your point. You trying to make a valid argument but i don't see your point. How about start a private fundraiser on your own to "SAVE" tougaloo. THE MUSEUM BELONGS DOWNTOWN.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-19T13:47:51-06:00

ID

98501

Comment

The fate of Tougaloo is obviously not a different conversation to the folks who chose a location for the museum. Well, that may be true—but that seems to be a clear reason that people should not be on the museum's commission who have as a primary goal to save a college, rather than pub a civil-rights museum where it will attract the most possible visitors. While I recognize that DJP would have done things differently, building up the community around Tougaloo is not part of DJP's mandate. I'm not sure where Downtown Jackson Partners fit into this, either. Obviously, they want it downtown. But what they want should not be the deciding factor, either. It's certainly not why I, and I suspect others here, are concerned about this recommendation. DJP doesn't tell me what to think, or argue, any more than anyone else does. Personally, I'd like to stick to the real issue, not what one or another special-interest group wants.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T13:52:52-06:00

ID

98502

Comment

I think saving a college is just as legitimate as building downtown development. I want a vibrant downtown and a stable, long-term Tougaloo presence. Both are legitimate interests. A downtown site might be more practical in some ways, and it would certainly help raise city revenue, but we need to ask ourselves why the area around Tougaloo is perceived as being so far out in the boondocks that it's weird to put a museum there--and what this says about that little HBCU's future.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T14:01:09-06:00

ID

98503

Comment

NewJack, are we going to honestly say that great legislators like John Horhn are villains, or are we going to make an effort to try to understand why they made the decision that they did and see if we agree with their motives?

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T14:04:16-06:00

ID

98504

Comment

I think saving a college is just as legitimate as building downtown development. Tom, your logic is shaky right now. No one said, or implied, that neither of those is legitimate, and you're the only one comparing them in some way. Maybe you're arguing with yourself? The only comparison on this table is the location and accessibility—not the needs of development or a private college. Sure, some people would rent a car and drive to Tougaloo if they flew in from somewhere. Others who are staying downtown, in the new King Ed or one of the other hotels, might actually walk to it. For instance, the JFP holds to host an AAN convention in upcoming years. Most of the hundreds of people that would attract to downtown would not like rent cars and would be less likely to get to the Tougaloo area to see a museum. That's only one example. Others could come in on Amtrak, say downtown and visit a downtown museum. People who work or visit downtown could go there over a long lunch. And no one said John Horhn is "a villian." It's a good time for you to start following the thread and the arguments being made and not putting words in other people's mouths. That's beneath your intellect.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T14:20:39-06:00

ID

98505

Comment

A downtown location would be a hell of a lot more convenient, I agree. But if it's being placed near Tougaloo, it's probably being done to protect Tougaloo's long-term future--and I can't really fault that reasoning.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T14:34:23-06:00

ID

98506

Comment

I can, and I do. I find that shortsighted when it comes to the potential health and reach of Mississippi's first civil-rights museum. And that has nothing to do with some concocted competition between the needs of Tougaloo and Downtown Jackson Partners. That's a straw man, and sending this conversation down that road is only a sidetrack.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T14:37:41-06:00

ID

98507

Comment

It may be a sidetrack, but I think we need to acknowledge the competing interests here. You are (correct me if I'm wrong) working with DJP, which would seem at least as relevant as the fact that some of the folks on the committee responsible for placing the museum are Tougaloo grads. Neither is necessarily a conflict of interest, but both are obviously going to shape the perspectives of the folks involved.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T14:44:56-06:00

ID

98508

Comment

I am not working with DJP on anything. They are a source to me just as everyone else is. But it's nice to hear you ask before you make assumptions. Perhaps that fact will shape your perceptions in the future.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T14:48:49-06:00

ID

98509

Comment

Okay, here's my two cents. I participated in Tougaloo's Upward Bound Program and enrolled after I was offered a scholarship. During that time, Tougaloo was struggling like many private HBCUs, but important improvements were made whle I was there and after I graduated such as a change in administration, new dorms and the construction of a new health and wellness center (which includes an impressive gym) that was funded by a $6 million federal grant. I believe that Tougaloo will continue to receive support through alumni donations, the Two Rivers Gala, and other events. I also believe that if the school was really about to go under any second now, I would have heard about it directly from them because I am sure that they would do whatever it took to raise the money to keep the school open. Of course, I don't have all the facts, but that's just what I think based on my past experiences with the school. I would like to know more about why John Horhn supported the Tougaloo location. I do know that he has been a Tougaloo supporter in the past. As a matter of fact, I was one of the students who walked the streets canvassing the neighborhoods for him when he first ran for the state senate. With all that being said, I still think the civil rights center should be downtown. It would be more accessible to tourists and fit in nicely with all the other developments such as the convention center and Farish St. To me, Tougaloo could still have its own museum to teach visitors about the school's role in the Civil Rights Movement. They could have a Tougaloo Nine display, pictures of Dr. King speaking at Woodworth Chapel and everything.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-19T14:59:40-06:00

ID

98510

Comment

Donna, thanks for the clarification. I think you can understand why I might come away with that impression based on this article: Before the Best of Jackson party on Sunday, though, there’s another celebration worth thinking about—on Thursday, Jan. 24, former city Councilman Ben Allen, now director of Downtown Jackson Partners, is hosting a celebration to discuss all of the new and ongoing development that’s happening in downtown Jackson and beyond. That event will be held at the TelCom Center on Thursday—RSVP for one of the few remaining seats by sending an e-mail to [email][email protected][/email] In addition to a quick discussion of all the highlights of development happening around town, Ben will also be announcing a new initiative to “get the word out” on everything that’s going well with Downtown Jackson and other urban-living neighborhoods in Jackson. And I’m thrilled to say that the JFP will have a part in that plan. This week, the Jackson Free Press is announcing a new project—a new magazine called Boom Jackson. This annual, glossy magazine is being produced in conjunction with a number of sponsors including Downtown Jackson Partners, the Hinds County Economic Development District, the Jackson Convention and Visitors Bureau, and a few others that I hope to announce on Thursday at the event. Boom Jackson will celebrate urban living, working and creating in Jackson, with an emphasis on downtown, Fondren, Belhaven and JSU-area developments.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T15:03:32-06:00

ID

98511

Comment

I will continue to beat my drum regarding the need for Jackson to become a true destination city - like Atlanta... New Orleans... Memphis.... and that does not mean peppering point of interest venues all over the place. It means making a certain area the destination, so visitors can see and do and experience without having to roam all over God's creation. Tougaloo needs to be, and deserves to be, a separate issue. I could make more money in my business if I could transport visitin' folk to Tougaloo to see the Museum, but it jut doesn't make "big picture" sense when wanting to see Jackson become a true destination city. Having the civil rights museum downtown makes perfect sense towards making downtown Jackson the "destination" for visitors wanting to taste the flavor of the South in a concentrated area.... The Farish Street District... The Civil Rights Museum... The Davis Planetarium... Various Parades and Festivals...MS Museum of Art... MS Symphony... Kesslers Broadway...MS Opera... Muslim Museum... great restaurants... walking tours... art galleries... the Convention Center... etc etc... Papa, can you hear me?

Author

bryanms

Date

2008-02-19T15:04:47-06:00

ID

98512

Comment

Latasha, great post--and thank you. I never meant to suggest that the school was going under any second now; just that it seemed to be more vulnerable, on a long-term basis, than I'd really like.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T15:06:25-06:00

ID

98513

Comment

That's okay, Tom. I was wondering if maybe you heard something that I didn't. Private HBCUs tend to be vulnerable on a long-term basis, but alumni often help keep it afloat, especially by sending their kids to the same schools they went to.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-19T15:11:23-06:00

ID

98514

Comment

Yes, Tom, funny you, er, asked. There is a new Jackson magazine coming called "Boom Jackson," which DJP is a "sponsor" of, along with Hinds County, the CVB, the King Edward and others I can't recall. This is obviously not a secret SINCE IT'S IN THE FRIGGIN' PAPER. What you have conveniently skipped over is whether I and the rest of the editorial team here have anything to do with that magazine. We do not. It is a project of publisher Todd Stauffer and new Boom editor Ronni Mott, and they will be using freelance contributors. The reason, should you care to know before assuming otherwise, that the editorial staff at the JFP is not going to have anything to do with it (other than lack of time) is because the newspaper must be able to continue to criticize anyone involved in that project or any other project. Thus, I am not involved with Boom; nor is Adam, or Maggie, etc. and so on. It also means that Ronni will not report for the JFP on anything to do with the city, development, etc. (not that she does anyway). At the JFP, we have a strict code of ethics, and everyone is privy to it and abides by it. In addition, we are rather notorious for following that ethical code so closely that we piss off some of our closest supporters on occasion. And, overall, they have closer ties to Tougaloo than to Ben Allen or DJP. So were we to angle our coverage and our opinions based on that kind of thing, we probably would be jumping up and down for moving the museum to Tougaloo right now. But we're perfectly capable of being a real newspaper and not taking positions based on that kind of thing. If we're weren't, we'd go into another business. But thanks for quoting back to me from my own paper—as if I'm not aware of what's in it. Insult well taken, dude. I think I'm done with you on this one if you don't mind. Your little hunt for conspiracy since your return is a bit tiresome. Later.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T15:19:58-06:00

ID

98515

Comment

May it continue to be so. I do worry about the long-term health of Tougaloo--it's a small private HBCU, which tends to be an endangered species these days. I don't know where I stand on this. I want to see a civil rights museum downtown; I also want to see Tougaloo survive the 21st century intact. I have to believe the legislators in question, who also love Jackson and Tougaloo, faced the same dilemma. Maybe they made the wrong choice, but I don't know that. I might have done the same thing, if it were up to me.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T15:25:07-06:00

ID

98516

Comment

Okay, Donna, I obviously touched a nerve. I wasn't trying to imply any conspiracy; I was merely pointing out where I had gotten the impression that the JFP is working with the DJP.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T15:26:33-06:00

ID

98517

Comment

Why didn't you just ask, Tom, instead of making proclamation from on high ("correct me if I'm wrong"). You were wrong because you didn't. ask. first. You then dig yourself deeper by quoting a bunch of stuff from my own newspaper that doesn't say what you thought it did on a cursory, blabospheric glance. Can you possibly know how silly that looks from here? You didn't "touch a nerve." I just get so tired of playing silly games with people who don't have the decency to ask a human being question before spreading rumors when there is so much real work to be done in the world. So please say something useful and credible to me, or leave me out of the conspiracy dance. I've got work to do.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T15:31:21-06:00

ID

98518

Comment

Donna, you or someone else in this thread pointed out that some of the committee members were Tougaloo graduates; I merely pointed out the existence of the joint Boom Jackson venture. Neither, as I said at the time, is necessarily a conflict of interest.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T15:35:34-06:00

ID

98519

Comment

Back on the real topic: I wonder if there was anyone young (like under 40?) on the museum commission. It almost seems like this is shaping into a generational discussion, with some exceptions. Younger people, for the most part, are supporting the idea of the civil rights museum downtown because they want it to be as diverse and accessible as possible. This is merely a posit, but could it be that the people making the decision, regardless of race, still assume that these kinds of things should be kept separate? I've been reading a lot about changing demographics (specifically the "millennials") for an AAN diversity project I'm working on, and it becomes clear quickly that younger people have a different assumption that diversity needs to be there, and is good for our communities, than older generations do.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T15:37:21-06:00

ID

98520

Comment

Actually, Tom, as is apparent from this increasingly tedious thread, I and others pointed out that the president of Tougaloo is on the location committee, and the co-chair may well be on the board of directors at Tougaloo. That is mighty relevant to this discussion. You, on the other hand, made false assumptions to try to justify your false DJP-v.-Tougaloo pick-one dilemma, which no one but you came up with. It was a fallacy on top of a fallacy, as has now been shown. Now, can we please keep this on topic? I'm tired of petty drama hijacking this thread.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T15:40:34-06:00

ID

98521

Comment

Just to touch on what Ladd wrote, I didn't see it as "working with" the JFP as much as partnering with a great magazine organization which many entities do in Jackson when the project is for a good cause. I was about to point out the professional separation of the editorial staff and the business staff before she did - not that I could have written it better, I've just seen the point made a hundred times on here. It is clear to me, that if all those people have Tougaloo ties, and it ends up at Tougaloo, then someones special interest is taking precedent over the greater good of the whole area. Who owns all the land around the college that is slated to be redeveloped once West County Line is finished? The current choice of the Tougaloo location seems selfish, and narrow minded. The company that helped select this location found it best to locate the Memphis Civil Rights Museum in downtown Memphis, so why the sudden shift in logic? Birmingham's is located Downtown. Again, the companies hired to select a location lean on the "blight" of downtown, as if the civil rights center wouldn't somehow spur concurrent development around it? Something doesn't smell right about the Tougaloo choice!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-02-19T15:46:27-06:00

ID

98522

Comment

Well said, Pike.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T15:48:30-06:00

ID

98523

Comment

Can't there be room for legitimate disagreement here? Do we have to accuse all these people of doing something unethical just because we don't like where they're putting a museum?

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T15:52:03-06:00

ID

98524

Comment

(sigh)..First of all Tom, Tougaloo is a private institution surviving on donations and grants. And though Im sure it has experienced problems a'la Lemoyne Owen in Memphis...your reports of its possible demise are GREATLY exxaggerated. Tougaloo's not going anywhere. Thats why Im concerned about your train of thought. Its viability in and of itself has nothing to do with a civil rights museum and thus no place in this conversation. If the museum is placed downtown Tougaloo will survive as it always has. In fact Tougaloo will benefit as will Jackson State as will all the area colleges by the museum being in the center of town whereas the adverse is simply not true. Truth be told if a choice had to be made as a concerned citizen of Jackson I will always choose strengthening the tax base and economic foundation of my city over sentimental exploits. I too was in upward bound AND NYSP at Tougaloo. spoke there, performed there, and have friends from there. and even though Im a jsu grad have a great deal of respect for its status. but common sense, a cooler head, and having run a business for 7 years tells me downtown is the obvious choice. without debate. In fact, a tougaloo grad could only argue thispoint based on emotional attachment and not fiscal responsibility. Whether or not JFP is working with DJP is irrelevant. every joker within earshot of downtown should be working with em CL, advocate, northside sun, whoever to keep reporting the POSITIVE thats happening downtown. I dont want my kids inheriting a broke city or an entertainment or culturally dead downtown. Hell, I live by Tougaloo and dont go down that end of county line unless traffic is backed up somewhere. Traditionally museums dont make money anyway and building it there is a recipe for long term failure. That committee, John Horne included should be ashamed! loyalty to your alma mater is one thing but sheesh!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-19T15:59:09-06:00

ID

98525

Comment

Im so sick of how business is done traditionally and now in this city that Im about to vomit! Our city has no go-getters. Tougaloo should never have been able to pull off this upset. Rational thinking and common sense is abandoned for emotional impulsive selfish dcisions. and elders continue to shun forward progess now having a pissing contest to see which institution or sight is the most ''civil rightsy.'' History dictates and clearly documents that Jackson period was a hotbed for activity. Tougaloo did no more or no less. CMON PEOPLE

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-19T16:08:33-06:00

ID

98526

Comment

Bet there wasnt ONE. re: folks under 40. business as usual. This city is still in the 60's mentally sometimes.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-19T16:21:52-06:00

ID

98527

Comment

Whoa, Kaze, your posts gave me chills. There is little I can add. I'm glad we're on the same team, even if we have to yell at each other now and again. ;-) Tom, there is plenty of room here for "legitimate disagreement." That's what we're trying to get you to do, instead of going off half-cocked with rumors of Tougaloo's demise, clearly designed to try to strengthen your own weak, binary argument trying to pit DJP against Tougaloo. Meantime, that is the worst and potentially most harmful thing that has been said about them publicly here. Think it through. I haven't accused anyone of being unethical. I have said that I hope that people in top management at Tougaloo and on the board were not in any way involved in this decision. Many others here seem to agree with me.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T16:26:30-06:00

ID

98528

Comment

As for going to Tougaloo, I do know that it's hard to get white people to go there for events I've been involved in (I don't recall seeing you at any, for instance), and I doubt it's the best place to pull in black people as well (but I'll leave that to Kaze, golden, justjess, skipp, newjack, trusip, and others to argue for or against). I'm not blaming Tougaloo for that, and perhaps the museum would help that, but I doubt it. It's pretty up in their neck of the woods—my doctor, Joseph White, is up near them—but it's too out of the way for the state's civil rights museum. Part of what's so great about the ones in Memphis and Birmingham is that they are right there—right where heads hit the pavement, so to speak. And right near other attractions so people have fewer excuses not to go. Here is my agenda: I want everyone to know more about the black freedom struggle in Mississippi, and putting the museum in downtown Jackson will help that the most. If you are also interested in eco-devo for the city, which translates into better schools and lower crime for our majority-black city, then you also want it downtown. As Kaze makes clear, it's a no-brainer.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T16:29:54-06:00

ID

98529

Comment

i got it...someone said something about the amtrak and i thought of this...how bout instead of building some big ol' building and taking a piece of prop that could generate taxes or some other form of revenue...how about it all start at the new train station and do a downtown walking tour instead of building a big building build like 12-15 small ones or renovate space and then have the people of the fattest state walk around to enjoy the building...put stuff in context and pull it together...imagine people in Welty with footage or mannequins where the tougaloo folk (that were from JSU) trying to integrate the lib...then use the useless fondren trolley to take people out to tougaloo after theyve done the jackson walk...see compromise...it works skipp for mayor '09 "well he does pay his mortgage"

Author

skipp

Date

2008-02-19T16:34:38-06:00

ID

98530

Comment

skipp for mayor '09 "well he does pay his mortgage" LOL, skipp. Great campaign phrase!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T16:38:39-06:00

ID

98531

Comment

Doesn't Madison have some new hotels planned? Don't they have new shopping centers everywhere? What difference does it make to our elected officials if Jackson gets anything? We must stop buying in places other than where we live!!! Those communities are supported by our dollars and the sad thing is I'm beginning to feel so hopeless about our actual ability to do anything meaningful when it comes to stopping the bulldozer running over us. After all it's being driven by people who live in Jackson. Elected officials and citizens who simply "must" shop in these areas.

Author

BuyJxn

Date

2008-02-19T16:39:50-06:00

ID

98532

Comment

Donna writes: As for going to Tougaloo, I do know that it's hard to get white people to go there for events I've been involved in (I don't recall seeing you at any, for instance), As you know, I'm not a regular attendee at JFP events--but I have been to Tougaloo, I like the campus, and in fact I suggested it as a possible venue for that event we coordinated in 2005. I also know that small, private HBCUs are an endangered species right now, I know that Tougaloo is a small, private HBCU, and I would like to see it survive on a long-term basis. A civil rights museum in the vicinity could help it do that. Look, Donna, I'm not sure I don't want the museum to be downtown. It's a much more convenient location for me, for starters; Tougaloo is pretty far out of the way for a guy who doesn't drive, while downtown is a pedestrian Mecca and practically in my backyard. All I'm asking you to do is recognize that there are legitimate reasons for wanting the civil rights museum near Tougaloo rather than downtown, reasons that can't be reduced to a few committee members' potential conflicts of interest. And frankly, the idea of a white person going "Well, I would visit a museum dedicated to the struggle against segregation, but it's in a black area..." is too ironic for me to take seriously as a consideration.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T17:32:30-06:00

ID

98533

Comment

And frankly, the idea of a white person going "Well, I would visit a museum dedicated to the struggle against segregation, but it's in a black area..." is too ironic for me to take seriously as a consideration. Well, it's nice to see that you're the one person here who boiled comments down into something that offensive. I don't have to dance around these kinds of issues; I've been in the thick of them. I helped bring the lynching exhibit to Jackson State. We brought it there because the city was too ch!ckenshit to let us put it downtown in Smith Robertson (and that was Harvey Johnson days) and as a result probably fewer people who might have seen it otherwise saw that exhibit.We all know that white people are less likely to go to what they perceive to be a black area, especially to look at evidence of what their people did to black folks, but that does not mean that we should not encourage every effort possible, in every way, to get as many different eyes on the truth. And maybe that truth will set some people free from their upbringing, and they won't be afraid of going to the Metrocenter or to Jackson State. No one has actually explained the reasons for putting it at Tougaloo over other places, beyond the obvious that they have a rich civil-rights history themselves and your take that it should be done to save an HBCU that is going down the toilet—according to you. So, spend your time dancing around the "irony" of the realities of race in Mississippi. The rest of us here are trying to do something about it. And we don't have time for denial that tucking the museum in a pastoral setting on a private black campus will limit its reach and, thus, its power to effect change where it's needed most.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T17:49:39-06:00

ID

98534

Comment

Donna, has it occurred to you that putting the civil rights museum near Tougaloo could increase traffic to the area rather than just decreasing traffic to the museum? And I never said that Tougaloo was going down the toilet; I said that it was a small, private HBCU, that those are an endangered species, and that I can understand the rationale behind putting a civil rights museum nearby in part for that reason.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T17:53:47-06:00

ID

98535

Comment

And do you honestly think that Senator Horhn, et. al. are trying to limit the museum's ability to effect change by "tucking [it] in a pastoral setting"?

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T17:58:26-06:00

ID

98536

Comment

I don't know what Sen. Horhn's motivations are, Tom. Neither do you. It might be to help the college such as has been your primary argument. But I, Kaze and many others disagree, whether that sits well with you and others or not. has it occurred to you that putting the civil rights museum near Tougaloo could increase traffic to the area rather than just decreasing traffic to the museum? Obviously it has. I think that's a logical stipulation that the museum would increase traffic to that private college; we don't know how much. I also think it's irrelevant if there is a more central location (to the Movement and to potential traffic) than a private HBCU, however much I admire that college's history. Of course, I'm repeating myself so I'll bow out of this with you, Tom, as I should have already. At this point, it sounds more like you're out to have a battle of wits with me, and as I've said on numerous occasions, I'm not interested in engaging in these kinds of conversations for personal reasons. It's a waste of time to me. Lata.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T18:06:40-06:00

ID

98537

Comment

Donna, I'm not out to have a battle of wits with you. I'm out to defend the folks who made this decision, and to explain why putting the museum near Tougaloo may--may--help the city more than putting it downtown would. This seems to me to be a discussion well worth having, and not something that can be reduced to a battle of wits between us. If you're trying to make the case for downtown placement to people who don't already agree with you, it makes sense to have an open and sympathetic discussion of the issues and objectives at hand. You obviously see me as an enemy, and that's a shame, but the people who made this decision are not your enemies. I think they're trying to do the right thing, and face a very difficult decision with far-reaching consequences. The pros and cons on this issue are so numerous that I can't imagine getting angry with someone who favor one option over the other. If ever there was a situation where reasonable people should be able to disagree, this is it. I'm going to bow out of the site because I've spent more time than I wanted to this afternoon stuck in a very nasty argument with someone I try very hard to think of as an ally--coming back was a mistake, as this clearly isn't going to work--but I would urge you to please keep in mind that there are legitimate reasons to put the museum in the Tougaloo area, and that the people who favor this option may in fact have the same goals that you do.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-19T18:16:41-06:00

ID

98538

Comment

(sigh)..ok Tom. what are they. I have been engaged in many debates on this site. Debates in which both sides duked it out. Both sides having several issues and points in their favor. If this was the case here I swear I could ride witcha buddy. In a utopian society Tougaloo would be nice...sure. but you nor the members of that committe simply dont have a leg to stand on. and if you do its a leg fueled by your heart and not your head. or maybe you just wish to joust.. its like arguing about having a barbecue in a blizzard. yeah it would be cute but not smart. Your only argument is based on Tougaloo's civil rights history that although storied is no more prolific thn jsu's or farish st.'s. The college is not going anywhere Tom. so abandon that line. and you couldnt find a firm on the planet that could commission a study to show that tougaloo would be a more successful site than downtown. no critical mass.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-19T18:31:15-06:00

ID

98539

Comment

That's fine, Tom. Then you should actually put forth a reason (other than saving an HBCU that you assume is in trouble), or talk to the people involved and find out what their motivation is, and then share it with us. (Us, we've been leaving messages with them and have talked to at least one. That will be in the story Adam is doing.) I don't see you as an enemy or anything else. You're someone who posts on the site like anyone else, and I'm responding to your attempts to re-cast my words and others. If you don't wish that to happen, then stop the re-casting. I really don't like people to put words in my mouth. And please don't go go around mischaracterizing this as a "very nasty argument"; you've pulled that stunt before, and it won't fly. Lose the drama, Tom. I've told you before: I don't play that game. And I know what "nasty" is; I've been a target of it in myriad ways since we started this paper just because I'm a woman who dares to disagree with men in this state, who then gets accused of being "nasty" and "browbeating" and "crazy" and whatever else you boys can come up with to label a women who just doesn't. agree. with. you. It is that simple. Of course, inevitably, the more I prove to y'all that I don't care about the insults, the uglier it gets. Little secret: It's a waste of time. Now, back to Kaze and the regularly scheduled discussion, sans drama.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T18:32:36-06:00

ID

98540

Comment

Besides, I'm going to leave this ball in Kaze's court. He doesn't need me to help, clearly. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T18:33:34-06:00

ID

98541

Comment

I too was in upward bound AND NYSP at Tougaloo. Dude, when did you go?

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-19T18:50:30-06:00

ID

98542

Comment

I also know that small, private HBCUs are an endangered species right now, I know that Tougaloo is a small, private HBCU, and I would like to see it survive on a long-term basis. A civil rights museum in the vicinity could help it do that. I think this line of thinking is flawed in a sense that we haven't covered. If we assume that this governor-appointed committee has a fiduciary responsibility to the *museum project*, as opposed to Tougaloo College, downtown Jackson or any other entity or institution, then it would be an argument *against* Tougaloo as the venue for this museum if the college is in some measure of trouble. It occurs to me that members of that committee might have a responsibility to do what is in the museum's best interest, not the school's, in which case that logic doesn't hold up. So what would the other factors be in support of Tougaloo over, for instance, Jackson State University? I don't know the details of their plan, but perhaps they're giving the land, the parking situation is perceived as better, the development is cheaper in a suburban setting...I don't know. While I'll argue against the location at this point (and encourage the committee to vote it down -- a subset is the "Location" committee) if and when Tougaloo is the final selection I'll be interested to see if it means more roads, restaurants, hotels or whatnot in that vicinity. This is the sort of thing we're talking about: http://www.civilrightsmuseum.org/images/Img_Aboutus.jpg And, Tom, feel free to direct any questions regarding Boom Jackson to me. That's my Publisher's Note you're quoting, after all. ;-)

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-02-19T19:20:45-06:00

ID

98543

Comment

Didn't the article say it would be visible from I55? Isn't there more traffic on I55 than downtown? Maybe that's why they think Tougaloo would better than downtown, more traffic=more visitors to the museum.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-19T19:25:57-06:00

ID

98544

Comment

This is a state museum to be built on land PURCHASED from Tougaloo. It would neither be owned nor controlled by the college. It is certainly a better option that the delta or Hattiesburg. Not everything can be built downtown, nor should it be.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-19T19:27:32-06:00

ID

98545

Comment

This is the sort of thing we're talking about: [img]http://www.civilrightsmuseum.org/images/Img_Aboutus.jpg[/img] Todd, I could definitely see that downtown. The landscape in that picture reminds me of Farish St.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-19T19:34:50-06:00

ID

98546

Comment

Itodd and Tom yall cant make me believe that yall are all of a sudden apart of The Negro college Fund and are big time supporters of HBCU's and the support for the tougaloo site is to help save it from its demise. Stop lying and come out with your real reasons for supporting the site because if thats yall arguments its filled with holes and leaking piss by the minute. It should be downtown and My school JSU was overlooked because we actually had two black students die on campus to me JSU is more deserving as the Museum site than Tougaloo and its private interest. But thats not the point i want scoop that low and play favortism, it shouldn't be at tougaloo or JSU but DOWNTOWN.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-19T19:35:37-06:00

ID

98547

Comment

Didn't the article say it would be visible from I55? Isn't there more traffic on I55 than downtown? It seems that Beverly Hogan did say that. I'm not sure how that would work, although I guess it's possible that Tougaloo owns property that is not contiguous to campus? http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Tougaloo+College

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-02-19T19:36:24-06:00

ID

98548

Comment

NewJackson...a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Not everything can be built downtown, nor should it be. A fine sentiment, Will, and I completely I agree. I, for instance, would not for one minute argue for placing an airport -- or, dare I say it, a spaceport -- in Downtown Jackson. Pure lunacy. On that we're agreed. Fortunately, we're talking about a Mississippi Civil Rights Museum, which makes total sense in Downtown, where most of the other museums are, and where much of the struggle (certainly not all) in Jackson took place.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-02-19T19:39:42-06:00

ID

98549

Comment

JACKSONIANS dont give up the fight we shall overcome and These people who all of a sudden has tougaloo best interest at heart are hypocrites.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-19T19:41:53-06:00

ID

98550

Comment

ITODD DONT try to call me Dumb by saying a mind is a terrible thing to waste, IF you wanna start throwing insults i can go there with you but i aint so cool it.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-19T19:43:52-06:00

ID

98551

Comment

Well, maybe that characterization is a tad strong, NewJack! Especially when it comes to people who have worked long and hard for Tougaloo. We can support a downtown museum, and raise issues about needed recusals and the like without calling people names, no?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T19:44:00-06:00

ID

98552

Comment

It seems that Beverly Hogan did say that. I'm not sure how that would work, although I guess it's possible that Tougaloo owns property that is not contiguous to campus? Tougaloo has a lot of undeveloped land. From what I remember, all of the land fenced in surrounding the school belongs to them.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-19T19:48:16-06:00

ID

98553

Comment

NewJack...it was a joke, based on your previous post, in which you characterized me as "all of a sudden apart of The Negro college Fund and are big time supporters of HBCU's." One, you're misreading what I'm saying and, two, you're the one who decided to characterize the motives of others and tell them they're lying...which definitely ain't cool.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-02-19T19:53:43-06:00

ID

98554

Comment

To me it should be all about what is best for the museum, not what is best for downtown or for Tougaloo. That is why I think it should be downtown- it just makes more sense to tie it in with everything else. And by the way, I don't think Hohrn or Frazier are *against* downtown- please check out this quote from the C-L: But Sen. John Hohrn, a commission member who said he will support the Tougaloo site, said the museum should be located near tourist-friendly amenities such as hotels, restaurants and other museums. "Most places in the Delta don't offer those kind of amenities," Hohrn, D-Jackson, said. Sen. Hillman Frazier, D-Jackson, said Tougaloo College has "a lot of history and civil rights history." But Frazier said he had hoped for "a more accessible location." Sounds to me like they just would prefer this area over the Delta...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-19T19:53:47-06:00

ID

98555

Comment

IF iam wrong apologies but i see tougaloo is fighting hard for this so JACKSON since our LEADERSHIP of this city dont care to fight for this we have to do it ourselves. Ladd IF you would prepare a petition i would get it signed at JSU.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-19T19:57:09-06:00

ID

98556

Comment

NewJack, part of the problem is that you are missing up iTodd with Tom's view because you're not taking the time to read what he wrote. He's actually in agreement with you, except on the name-calling and other idiocy. Which you need to stop if you want to keep posting here. Now.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T19:59:58-06:00

ID

98557

Comment

NewJack, why don't you make up a petition yourself? Any we would do would be online, probably. And I can't do everything for you guys. I'm not so great at being a secretary. ;-) And you were wrong in your characterization of Todd. Taking time to re-read and see that, and then apologize for accusing people of stuff they didn't say, would be quite classy of you. And might encourage others to want to work with you. (Although I do think something is in the air today making people—or at least some men—into real jerks. You wouldn't believe the crap and self-focused name-calling I've dodged today, by phone, e-mail and online.) Stop it, boyz. You know who you are. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T20:04:30-06:00

ID

98558

Comment

Okay i will no problem in doing that. and i apologize but when i fight for Jackson i swing and sometimes i hit everybody. I dont know who to trust.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-19T20:09:10-06:00

ID

98559

Comment

Accepted. I'm for the museum being downtown, and I encourage the folks planning to vote on it to vote it that way. If it doesn't work out that way then I'll be very interested to see the logic behind the decision and what city/county ends up host to it.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-02-19T20:13:26-06:00

ID

98560

Comment

I know you do, NewJack. You're eager, and I admire that. Just learn to take a breath now and then and don't blast the people who are on your side for no reason. ;-) And, I must add, you are always big enough to apologize when you go too far. Others could learn from you.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T20:16:54-06:00

ID

98561

Comment

iam not polished yet iam still raw so i will pre apologize for the record dont take me derailing personal.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-19T20:24:31-06:00

ID

98562

Comment

"Pre-apologize"? ;-) Cyber-hug, NewJack.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-19T20:46:33-06:00

ID

98563

Comment

I know that this is unrelated to the topic, but I wanted to say thanks for breaking up these long threads into several pages, but it would sure help navigation if you would post a link to *all* the different pages at the top and the bottom of each page. By this, I mean replace the "PREV page" and "next page" links with page numbers that a person can click on to get to any particular page in the thread. As it stands now, you must start at the first page, scroll all the way down to the "next page" link, then repeat the process until you are on the final page! Thanks!

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-20T09:18:44-06:00

ID

98564

Comment

Rico: I hear ya. I just took a cursory glance and I don't think I can get pMachine to do that -- I'm not sure the software anticipated 125-200 comment blog entries. "...1, 2, 3, last..." style navigation is already built into "JFP 3.0" which is hopefully only a few weeks away from its "beta" roll-out.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-02-20T09:57:35-06:00

ID

98565

Comment

First let's get some of the facts straight. Tougaloo College is in the City of Jackson. It receives services from JPD and JFD. When buildings are built on the campus they receive permits from the City of Jackson's Building Department. The new County Line Road project , now under construction, is funded in part and managed by the City of Jackson. The museum site offered is not on the campus but on land owned by the College adjacent to the campus along the new County Line Road. Access is quick and easy: I-55 to County Line Road- go west 1/2 mile and your there at the museum site. Can anyone give easier directions to any site in downtown Jackson? There are many hotels, restaraunts, shopping and other amenities very close to the site. And yes the museum site is in Madison County but in the City of Jackson as well- not Ridgeland. Neither the campus nor the site offered for the museum has ever been in the City of Ridgeland. I just wanted to offer some clarity.

Author

Storm

Date

2008-02-20T23:10:49-06:00

ID

98566

Comment

Can anyone give easier directions to any site in downtown Jackson? Sure- "walk out the front door of the lobby and go two blocks, it will be the big building on your right"- how's that? Actually, if they make this place be the gold standard of civil rights museums (and I really hope that they do), then it won't really matter where they put it- Jackson, Philadelphia, Greenville, Greenwood, Hattiesburg- if they build it, they will come. But if it is "one of the top five civil rights museums in the deep south" as I suspect it will end up being due to lack of funding, then it really should be downtown where it can play off the other attractions...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-20T23:49:49-06:00

ID

98567

Comment

FYI..a little MORE clarity..Tougaloo doesnt even own the land they are offering. Theyre gambling with someone else's money.The premise that there is going to be ''traffic'' instantly built in from 55 or I-220 is a misnomer..car traffic is much much different than the increased foot traffic that a museum could get in a downtown location. A central location better increases the chances of folks from ALL parts of the city attending..tourists already ''walking'' between things downtown have a better chance of stopping than if youre leaving the mall or target or logans and are in your car. chances are...youre going home. I agree with Kaze.Tougaloo would merely be a sentimental choice. side by side it just dont stack up next to a site downtown..crunch the numbers.

Author

trusip

Date

2008-02-21T06:48:55-06:00

ID

98568

Comment

STORM if tougaloo was in Jackson ms why is the Madison County chamber of commerce claiming tougaloo as its in their radio and T V spots explain that.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-21T08:31:12-06:00

ID

98569

Comment

NewJax go look at MDOT maps of Jackson and it shows Tougaloo in the city limits along with parts of Highland Colony Parkway area even though they are in Madison County. Madison County Chamber of Commerce is claiming Tougaloo because it in Madison County.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-21T09:07:41-06:00

ID

98570

Comment

Bubba T those are old maps because a judge ruled that Ridgeland was progressing more than Jackson so they deserve to annex that land that was on highland colony parkway that was once Jackson's now thats why the Tougaloo is being advertised as Madison's own and they will do the same for the civil rights Museum make it look like its their own. A civil rights Museum in Madison county that would be crazy with all the racial profiling that goes on still.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-21T09:39:55-06:00

ID

98571

Comment

Last I heard (and I do know where to check) is that Tougaloo is a part of Jackson. I just think that it's weird to put it up at Tougaloo when I've not heard of any major struggles up there. If all the elders at Tougaloo want to do is drive foot traffic into their school at the expense of places than actually suffered, then we have another problem.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-02-21T10:26:43-06:00

ID

98572

Comment

Newjax I found a map on Madison county website from 2007 http://www.madison-co.com/images/admin/spotedit/attach/4/CITY_OF_RIDGELAND_10_07.pdf and it does show Highland Colony being part of Ridgeland now but Tougaloo and all the land the south side of 220 in the big curve where 220 and I55 join is still in Jackson. Tougaloo has always been in Madison county.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-21T13:13:47-06:00

ID

98573

Comment

Funny, I was always told that the Richmond Grove neighborhood was in Ridgeland. This map suggests that it isn't. Learned something new today.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-21T13:37:28-06:00

ID

98574

Comment

BubbaT so Madison is lying when they say tougaloo belongs to them, and whats your point anyway the Museum still belongs downtown.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-21T13:56:06-06:00

ID

98575

Comment

This is a very interesting discussion from a number of different angles. There are legitimate reasons for a downtown location (I made a proposal for the old Woolworth's location over 10 years ago); and there are good reasons for the Tougaloo location. Knowing the way state government works, this kind of bickering is the best way to insure that the museum is built in the Delta or Hattiesberg. I expect that one of the major considerations is that the museum be located in the first congressional district. Another is the reluctance to place before the legislature yet another proposal to spend millions in downtown Jackson. Sorry, that is just political realism. Some of the thinking I have read here reminds me of the old addage about crabs in a bucket. Every time one tries to crawl out and get over the top; all the others pull it back down trying to get out themselves.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-21T14:02:38-06:00

ID

98576

Comment

No you were asking why Madison County Chamber claims Tougaloo as theirs. It is in MADISON COUNTY but also in the City LIMITS OF JACKSON. I can draw you a crayon map with stick figures if that will help. If they do build it at Tougaloo then Madison County will be able to say it has it in the county same thing Hinds County will do if it's built downtown. I don't care if they build it in Jackson,Tougaloo, or the Delta. YOU asked a question and I did a little research and gave you the best answer I could find and you still don't get it.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-02-21T14:09:29-06:00

ID

98577

Comment

The last post I'm seeing on this thread is listed as Feb. 14 - can anyone else not see the newer comments? I would email the iTodd but my email is acting up, thanks

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-22T09:25:29-06:00

ID

98578

Comment

Izzy toy have to go to the next page

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-22T09:32:15-06:00

ID

98579

Comment

I mean you have to go to the next page to see the new comments

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-22T09:33:34-06:00

ID

98580

Comment

oh yeah, thanks!!!

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-22T09:36:49-06:00

ID

98581

Comment

Click on "NEXT page" just below that last post...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-02-22T09:43:24-06:00

ID

98582

Comment

I'm planning on coming to the event Monday at 2 pm at Smith Roberson...this is THE time to act on this!

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-22T10:53:37-06:00

ID

98583

Comment

A downtown museum would also be able to make a "walking map" of important sites. Visitors could use that and learn a lot out in the city, then go back after.

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-22T10:57:28-06:00

ID

98584

Comment

That's a good idea, Izzy. A big, glossy color coded map that visitors can keep as a memento.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-22T11:22:14-06:00

ID

98585

Comment

yeah, maybe a poster on one side by a local artist depicting an aspect of the struggle or something about Jackson. Today I talked with colleagues at work about the Mayflower, how the FBI had it bugged to located KKK leadership. Another colleague scoffed at a Tougaloo site (instead of downtown) saying that "they wanted to keep it out of downtown, off to the side." He's speaking not knowing any details of these debates, though it did strike me - why should civil rights history NOT be front and center in our downtown. It is what it is. Soon as we own up to it we'll be better off and be moving ahead. And this is for Ray Carter: "Alabama's gotten me so upset, Tennessee makes me lose my rest, But everybody's talking 'bout Mississippi Goddam! --the great Nina Simone

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-02-22T13:02:04-06:00

ID

98586

Comment

OKAY FOLKS..THE TIME HAS BEEN CHANGED TO 1PM FOR THE PRESS CONFERENCE TO BETTER ACCOMODATE LAWMAKERS COMING FROM CAPITAL... ..SO MAKE NOTE..1PM MONDAY SMITH ROBERTSON.. sorry for any inconvenience..we need ALL of you.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-22T13:41:47-06:00

ID

98587

Comment

Please look at the history of the last 50 years. Add up the number of deaths related to lynchings, Klan activity, and violence related to the civil rights struggle. You will find that the majority of the deaths occured in rural areas and small towns. Not the city of Jackson. It is a shame that this is forgotten.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-23T19:34:54-06:00

ID

98588

Comment

The most logical place for a museum is downtown. Far more people will visit the museum if it is located within walking distance of other attractions. I don't see how anyone could fail to see the simple logic at work here. If it is expected to be a major tourist attraction, it should be located within reasonable walking distance of other tourist attractions. as downtown Jackson is experiencing a renaissance, why would it not be built downtown? While I can see the reasoning that downtown Jackson needs taxable property, this would be a significant draw and could serve as the cornerstone for further development. Relatively few museums are located in the suburbs. I can think of a few- the Barnes Colllection, for instance, is located in suburban Upper Merion instead of in Center City Philadelphia. This,however, is to its detriment. the Baltimore Museum of Art is downtown, but is arguably in a less desirable location than the Walters Art Gallery. Most museums in the Washington area are in downtown Washington- not in the suburbs. Serious thought needs to be given to this project and its site selection. Accepting the first offer of property may not be the best option for the city or for the area as a whole. I hope that a concerted effort is mounted to place the museum downtown.

Author

tombarnes

Date

2008-02-23T22:43:01-06:00