Jackson Free Press

Council President Leslie McLemore is leading a diverse group of Jacksonians who want to see the new Civil Rights Museum located in downtown Jackson, rather than then the suggested locale of Tougaloo College land north of the city. Join the group at 1 p.m. at the Smith Robertson Museum in downtown Jackson today (Monday, Feb. 25) to show your support.

Map for Smith Robertson

Previous Comments

ID

98799

Comment

Wow, what a turnout! I thought it was going to be a rally, but t was a press conference, so I was the only one with a poster. Oops. Well, they gave out American flags, so it was okay. Anyway, there was so many people that some had to stand up in the back of the room or in the hallway. There had to have been at least fifty people. Besides Dr. McLemore, Councilwoman Barrett-Simon, Coucilman Tillman, the mayor, Rep. Alice Clark, Robert Graham, the Calhouns, "Pops" Watkins, Ben Allen, Susan Lunardini and some other notables were there. I liked it when Dr. McLemore said that the press conference was pro-downtown and NOT anti-Tougaloo. Glad he emphasized that.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T14:51:17-06:00

ID

98800

Comment

i wish they'd fight this hard for Farish St. I'd love to see the city put the museum there, strip Performa of it's contract and make the entire district locally owned and operated.

Author

eyerah

Date

2008-02-25T16:03:03-06:00

ID

98801

Comment

eyerah, Kamikaze made some noise about Farish too. Did you see him on WAPT the other night?

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-25T16:09:21-06:00

ID

98802

Comment

Although I agreed with the Mayor in spirit at the meeting that the Farish Street project needs to be yanked from Performa and put into local hands, I've been around enough to know pi$s from rain, and to know that Melton just talks to keep his lips in motion instead of speaking the truth.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-02-25T16:17:45-06:00

ID

98803

Comment

I see in the C L today the civil rights commission is still stuck on tougaloo and thats sad it seems the train wreck is inevitable. And to me What is Judge Pickering doing serving on that committee. And mike espy what a sellout, we shouldn't rely on old mississippians with their old politics to decide on this Museum site.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-02T09:21:09-06:00

ID

98804

Comment

Yeah..thats definitely not the in-depth expose' we needed to inform the public at large. Its troubling to see folks ducking and hiding. Even more so to read folks like Espy, bought and paid for, bashing Jackson. Who suddenly made him the authority on when Farish would be done?? Its an insult to my intelligence to read both he and Pickering talk about how there was NO influence from the Tougaloo folks. Cmon! based on how we know folks in this town do business you expect us to believe that just because you send Espy and Pickering out to do your dirty work?? Word is the Tougaloo grads are hiding until the March 11 vote. I wouldnt show my face either if I knew I was selfishly selling my city out. On the flip side we could use a more detailed story in our daily. One that clearly outlines the advantages of a downtown location over Tougaloo. No rational thinking individual black or white could argue for Tougaloo when the facts are staring them in the face in black and white. And STILL to date the only thing Tougaloo supporters can say is ''we were a big part of the ciil rights movement'' And THATS what we're basing a committes decision on??? No wonder Birmingham and Memphis have become destination cities. Id hate to think they may simply have smarter people making the important decisions.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T10:41:09-06:00

ID

98805

Comment

Kaze i hope we aint gone go down not fighting, what is the location on the meeting on the 11th and what time and is it open to public discussion or open to the public at all. And Charles Pickering has a troubled past on civil rights legislation hisself how can he decide the proper location for a civil rights musuem. And sellout Espy. Man we need to keep on fighting we just cant lay down and be railroaded by rhetoric.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-02T10:56:31-06:00

ID

98806

Comment

Well you know what they say...With a name like Pickering he has to be...well lets say questionable on issues regarding Black folks. Pickering, Lott, Cochran names like that sholdnt be near an issue like this..at least no in a decision making capacity.. And we're not done yet..We need more folks writing to CL. and emailing those commission members. I put David Hampton's email on the other thread. Im a fighter. And these folks smugness about this is further pissing me off. Theyre being really condescending to the PEOPLE. We're amassing folks as we speak but need more..The vote is at the Woolfolk building on the 11th. And we may be picketing the Governors mansion if this vote goes down because the vote is only a recommendation and Barbour has to approve it so hes the final word.. But..all the Tougaloo folks on the commission endorsed Barbour even Espy did...Sad.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T11:26:34-06:00

ID

98807

Comment

I saw Espy's comments this morning. I haven't heard much out of that crook since he got ousted from DC. There's no doubt that he's in somebodies pockets. That's not to say that his Farish St. comments are completely off base. I think that it will certainly come to fruition at some point... but this has been one of the most poorly executed projects that I have ever followed. As far as "destination cities" go, I don't think that Birmingham fits into that category. I was there recently and just couldn't see why some people on this board try to compare Jackson negatively to the place. They have the same suburban conflicts that we do, but on a much larger scale... and their crime rates makes Jackson look like Mayberry.

Author

millhouse

Date

2008-03-02T11:33:02-06:00

ID

98808

Comment

sure, his Farish comments DID have some merit. But he has no frame of reference to go on other than what hes seen in the news. Farish IS a disaster but I havent seen him anywhere around. It just feels like our city is being set up for disaster and generations to come will have to pick up the pieces of these haphazard decisions.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T11:56:38-06:00

ID

98809

Comment

...And you know its funny. Now these folks on the commission. Espy included, are using Farish's problems as a talking point for the museum going to Tougaloo but none of them tried to use their great ''weight and influence'' to help Farish either. Instead they trash it. How can Leroy Walker be on the convention center board and NOT fight for the museum to be downtown.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T12:23:57-06:00

ID

98810

Comment

Some of the comments in the article were unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. Write the commission. Write the paper. They actually talked about a lack of support from African-American leaders for the Farish Street location and that African-Americans had left the District. What. What. How can they say that when THEY NEVER GAVE ANYONE IN JACKSON A CHANCE TO SHOW PUBLIC SUPPORT BEFORE THIS DECISION WAS MADE. THEY DID HOST A RALLY FOR TOUGALOO, AND GAVE THEM A CHANCE TO SHOW PUBLIC SUPPORT BEFORE THE DECISION WAS MADE. I even hear that Mary Hawkins Butler made an appearance. BUT NOT FOR JACKSON. NO SIR. We were not given equal treatment, and an equal chance to show how much support their is for this Museum to go downtown. I find it interesting that, at least according to the phone book, Mr. Espy's address is listed as Ridgeland, in Madison County.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-02T13:06:31-06:00

ID

98811

Comment

Yeah, and we know how much Mary Hawkins Butler loves black people! Haley sold the museum out to get a little bit of support from African Americans who are associated with Tougaloo. Why else would Tougaloo of given Haley an award last year? Seriously! Ray, why did Tougaloo give Haley an award?

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-02T13:16:31-06:00

ID

98812

Comment

This is the definition of "hoodwinked" if I've ever seen it. Tell Jackson they cannot have a public demonstration before a recommendation is adopted. Tell Tougaloo they can have a public demonstration before a recommendation is adopted. Tougaloo has rally. Tougaloo jumps from 10 to 1. Reason cited: public support for Tougaloo, but not Jackson. Hot darn!

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-02T13:32:52-06:00

ID

98813

Comment

Yep. That reeks of being a stacked deck, Matt. No doubt.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T13:39:24-06:00

ID

98814

Comment

Read The Clarion-Ledger story just now. Isn't this the first time they've reported the stuff we've been reporting—that (a) Tougaloo alums and officials are all over the commission; (b) that Downtown wasn't allowed to bring in as many supporters as Tougaloo (although they're backing into that with the quote from Ben Allen and (c) that Tougaloo was originally ranked well below the Downtown options? I don't remember them reporting any of this, to date, which could have helped put pressure on the commission to straighten out this boondoggle. Oh, and of course the Ledger didn't mention that it edited out one of those points (about limiting downtown supporters) from Dr. McLemore's column in that paper last week. Fortunately, Adam reported on all of this already. I think the Ledger's bias is clear here as well. They could have put in the original page 1A story hat all those Tougaloo folks were on the commission; why didn't they??? Also, all the Ledger's bad coverage and institutional racism about downtown over the years (and B.S. about crime being solved before development) is now coming home to roost in a big way. I'm sure Espy et al will point to Ledger coverage as one reason that the museum shouldn't be down there. This whole thing reeks. It's wrong. It was done wrong from the beginning, and now Haley Barbour's folks are going to get to hide the museum on a private black campus where it won't make as many of their kinds of voters and politicians uncomfortable. They can no longer turn away from our civil rights history, but they can tuck it off the side of the interstate somewhere rather than put it proudly in the middle of the capitol city. Figures. It is intriguing as well to watch politicians who have sold out to Barbour helping lead the charge to marginalize and limit the appeal and access of the museum. This smells like pure, old-style Republican politics sneaking in to pit people against each other and ultimately win the battle. Nice going, Mssrs. Anderson and Espy. Jackson will now continue to pale next to Birmingham and Memphis in many people's minds. "Oh, Mississippi wouldn't even put their civil rights museum in the capitol city." Way to shoot us in the foot just as we're making progress, folks. And it's really tragic to see an alliance form between southern strategists and Tougaloo loyalists make it happen. That's one for the history books. Kaze is right: This city desperately needs new blood in leadership positions. The old ones are running us into the ground.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T13:59:34-06:00

ID

98815

Comment

Folks, someone needs to alert the national media about this boondoggle and the way it's been done. There's big stuff at play here, and the evidence is in the November rankings that mysteriously changed; the Tougalooans on the commission; the fact that the consultants wouldn't let downtown bring supporters but allowed Tougaloo to; the fact that the Ledger covered up the Tougaloo connections as long as it could and cut out part of McLemore's column that questioned the ethics of the process; the fact that Republican-supporting African Americans are the front men on this; the fact that the consultants are not holding public meetings and introducing transparency into such an emotional process for this city and state ... any others I'm missing? Clearly, something stinks here. Someone did not want this museum in downtown Jackson, and has gone to great lengths to keep that from happening. The question is: Who? And I don't think it's the Tougaloo folks; they are clearly being used as pawns here—appeal to their loyalty and pit them against their friends downtown. I am voting for the governor. It makes the most sense. Didn't he appoint the commission? Why is it stacked with so many people from Tougaloo? At this point, I believe strongly that there are efforts to put the museum off to itself somewhere where it won't help the economic-development of downtown Jackson, which will in turn bolster the state's most progressive city and foster racial reconciliation in the state starting at its core. Such empowerment might even encourage progressive-thinking Jacksonians both to stay in the state and to vote at a higher rate. Guess who that doesn't help.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T14:12:33-06:00

ID

98816

Comment

"Jackson will now continue to pale next to Birmingham and Memphis in many people's minds. "Oh, Mississippi wouldn't even put their civil rights museum in the capitol city."" Neither of the cities that you mention here are their state's capitols.

Author

millhouse

Date

2008-03-02T14:13:53-06:00

ID

98817

Comment

Good point. Should have said in the heart of one of their largest population centers where civil rights struggles centered. As if we have many. BTW, here are your museum consultants

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T14:19:14-06:00

ID

98818

Comment

LaPaglia's client list. You know, it could be that they just don't get it. With due respect.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T14:21:19-06:00

ID

98819

Comment

LaPaglia & Associates Featured Projects page: 1) Bluegrass Int. Music Museum 2) Booth Western Art Museum 3) National Civil War Museum 4) Natl Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum 5) Louisville Slugger Museum 6) Ink & Blood Museum - Dead Sea Scrolls to the English Bible Two white guys and a wife. Not sure of the meaning of "Sample Client List" whether those are actual paying clients. Not much on their page that would indicate a sensitivity to or interest in Civil Rights .

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-03-02T14:46:52-06:00

ID

98820

Comment

If Im not mistaken. Leroy Walker, Socrates Garrett, Mike Espy, and Reuben Anderson.All AA who PUBLICLY supported Barbour..meaning Photo Ops and all. 4 of the main folks on the commission..hmmmm

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T14:52:53-06:00

ID

98821

Comment

If Im not mistaken. Leroy Walker, Socrates Garrett, Mike Espy, and Reuben Anderson.All AA who PUBLICLY supported Barbour..meaning Photo Ops and all. 4 of the main folks on the commission..hmmmm I would expect Barbour (or anyone else in his position) to put his supporters on committees rather than his detractors- wouldn't you? The thing that gets me about this Barbour conspiracy theory thing is that it would even be in *his* best interest to put the thing downtown. Does he really stand to gain much from anyone by putting it out at Tougaloo? On the other hand, if they built it downtown like they should, and it proves to be a success like it should, couldn't he use this as another feather in his cap- sort of like he has managed to take credit for his "handling" of Katrina related issues?

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-02T15:03:16-06:00

ID

98822

Comment

Donna writes: "I am voting for the governor. It makes the most sense. Didn't he appoint the commission? Why is it stacked with so many people from Tougaloo? At this point, I believe strongly that there are efforts to put the museum off to itself somewhere where it won't help the economic-development of downtown Jackson, which will in turn bolster the state's most progressive city and foster racial reconciliation in the state starting at its core. Such empowerment might even encourage progressive-thinking Jacksonians both to stay in the state and to vote at a higher rate." I don't think that's it at all, in large part because Tougaloo wasn't (by far) the most remote location on the list. Had the committee stuck it off in the rural Delta somewhere, it would be much less conspicuous. Putting it at Tougaloo--which helps Tougaloo's long-term future, and is still essentially in Jackson--still makes it fairly central to the life of the city, and could even allow for the creation of a civil rights tourism district at Tougaloo, one that would not be practicable downtown due to the degree of unrelated development. (Farish Street can't really be a civil rights tourism district, for example, because it's already being developed as a walkable entertainment district.) Likewise, I don't think the folks on the committee would have been stupid enough to put the museum somewhere where they didn't think it would get attention. And if the objective was to prevent Jackson development, why are most of the committee members Jacksonians in the first place? All of the folks Kaze named were Barbour supporters, and that may have played some role in their appointment, but I don't see Barbour rubbing his hands together with glee and saying "Let's destroy Jackson by putting a $55M state-funded development...A FIFTEEN-MINUTE DRIVE FROM DOWNTOWN! [cue evil laughter]" It doesn't make any sense as a conspiracy theory.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T15:07:03-06:00

ID

98823

Comment

Rico, indeed. The whole point of the photo ops--and the diversification of his campaign commercials, and the time he spent campaigning in District 2--was presumably to increase the potential reach of the Republican Party among black Mississippians, an effort that appears to have been successful. The more he can crow about being the guy responsible for a civil rights museum, the more that effort is helped.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T15:12:07-06:00

ID

98824

Comment

Then explain why if these are indeed ''Jacksonians''..and Jacksonians btw who all have thriving business in Jackson..are we even in this quandry??? You continue to make this ''Tougaloo needs it'' argument..But if theyve been here for decades ...all through the civil rights era as they keep reminding us..then theyll be ok. I must return to my ''heart'' analogy..It simply makes no sense to try and rush blood to your extremities when the very organ that you need to pump that life blood to it is failing..and right now fiscally our city..and downtown..the heart...is on life support.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T15:26:10-06:00

ID

98825

Comment

But Kaze, is downtown really on life support? My impression is that it's doing great--hundreds of millions of dollars worth of developments coming in, including the King Edward renovation, thank God. And all of that will bring about new development. This is not even to mention the emergence of downtown as a viable place to live, thanks to all those lofts. If we compare that to the Tougaloo area, which has no such development coming in to my knowledge, then I can see why some folks might want to deal with a foot wound rather than focus on making the heart stronger. I'm not sure I agree--and that's been my position all along; I'm okay with either location--but I don't understand why the Tougaloo location strikes folks as so weird. It makes sense to me, and it'll help the city. And if we need to bring an alternate explanation into play, let's consider the possibility that some folks just don't want to mess with downtown Jackson development right now, considering who the mayor is and considering the legislation and so forth that has been proposed dealing with downtown Jackson. Or the possibility that none of the committee members really want the civil rights movement to be surrounded by other developments--that they want it to build its own tourism district around itself. There are many possible explanations for this, and I have to go pretty far down the list before I find any that are nefarious or contrary to the goals of building up Jackson or anything like that. These are good people making a difficult decision.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T15:41:44-06:00

ID

98826

Comment

Tom, in my opinion Farish's development as an entertainment district in no way impedes upon its ability to be a civil rights museum district. In fact, I would argue the two could go hand-in-hand and are not mutually exclusive. If Farish's development progresses in the ideal, which is to say it develops economically while at the same time being true to its history as an African-American district, I think the Museum is a perfect fit. The fact of the matter is that Tougaloo is stuck off in the corner of the city, and is not as accessible and central to all of our Metro residents as would be a location downtown. I honestly believe that at Tougaloo, this Museum will be "out of sight and out of mind" for the overwhelming majority of our city's residents. Not so if it goes downtown. There, it is omnipresent. We need to do what every other city in America does - put its museums downtown.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-02T15:47:40-06:00

ID

98827

Comment

Matt, I agree that there are some practical benefits to putting the museum downtown, but I don't believe for a second that the museum will be "out of sight, out of mind" for the majority of Jacksonians if it's located at Tougaloo. Not if we support it, and not if it's properly promoted, and not if it inspires the level of neighboring commercial development that a major museum should.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T15:53:28-06:00

ID

98828

Comment

Tom, they could put it in the Delta near Tunica which draws the most people in all of the State! So you assumption that the Delta would truly tuck it away is wrong. Have you ever been to the MS River Museum? Probably not. I have, and it has lots of visitors who stop by during a gambling trip or a jaunt through the Delta on a Blues run. Also, your statement that somehow this museum would help Tougaloo is off base as well. Right now the college can't even take it take care of it's own buildings. So, if they lease the land to the State for the museum, it would be a "one-time" monetary fix much like the MCI money was for the State. Is the museum supposed to somehow transform that area? How? Why can't Tougaloo develop the 9 acres it is willing to lease into affordable housing for students and families in the area? That would generate more money for the school over a lease in the long run. Atlanta could have built their aquarium off MLK in the blighted area across from the braves stadium to bolster that area; but, they chose to put it downtown where the tourist center is located. It's all about the tourist - not the selfishness of some ideal that it will help a HBCU!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-02T16:01:20-06:00

ID

98829

Comment

Tom, convention attendees will not like the idea of charting a bus or trying to get a taxi (which is limited as is) to go to the museum. It is simple math and meeting planning. You don't want your attendees being bused or moved very much when time is limited. I was in the business. There is a reason conventions go to Cities, and that is not to be bused around away from the entertainment areas!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-02T16:04:11-06:00

ID

98830

Comment

Tom, that's certainly just an opinion, but I really think that. I don't buy this business of being able to see it from the interestate. Even if you can, it would be tucked behind a Red Lobster, a Home Depot, and Target. Maybe it's just me, but that's not as enticing as downtown with its historical architecture.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-02T16:14:42-06:00

ID

98831

Comment

As I have mentioned before in previous posts, building the museum at the Tougaloo campus would bring minimal benefits to the area. Building it downtown would make much more sense. Museums in suburban locations usually have more difficuty attracting visitors. Why add more traffic in North Jackson? The museum ought to be within easy reach of the new convention center and the growing number of attractions downtown. Jackson is the capital and should enjoy the benefits of its status as such. Build it downtown and more people will have the opportunity to visit the museum.

Author

tombarnes

Date

2008-03-02T16:15:52-06:00

ID

98832

Comment

I live in Washington. Washington has many, many museums. Are they in the suburbs? No. Many people visit Washington because of our collection of noteworthy museums. If the Smithsonian were scattered through a number of suburbs, they wouldn' receive nearly as many visitors as they do now. Building a branch of the Smithsonian in Anacostia might help the area, but it wouldn't be a good decision overall. The same thinking applies to Jackson.

Author

tombarnes

Date

2008-03-02T16:21:06-06:00

ID

98833

Comment

Have you ever been to the MS River Museum? Probably not. I have, and it has lots of visitors who stop by during a gambling trip or a jaunt through the Delta on a Blues run. Lots of visitors??? I'm up that way *very* often, and that museum is like a ghost town! It's a shame too- a very nice place, but I've never seen more than 1 or 2 other people there besides myself- perhaps one of them was you, pikersam? I still think that a lot depends on whether this is *a* museum or *the* museum- if it is the latter and has the ability to pull in visitors like Disneyworld (a place that was also built in the middle of nowhere), then I don't care where they put it. Truth be told, there isn't a place in this whole state that couldn't use a boost, and a boost of that magnitude would eventually help everyone. But I haven't really seen anything about the museum itself- is it going to be even as good as the other Civil Rights museums that are already around? If not, in fact if it isn't substantially *better* than the others, then it might not have a chance of standing on its' own two legs, and location would be much more important- which is why it probably should be downtown- where it could benefit from all the other stuff on the drawing board.

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-02T16:24:27-06:00

ID

98834

Comment

This has been one of my points from the beginning. Create a critical mass. This spot and match approach our city sometimes takes doesn't make sense. I seriously doubt DC considered putting the Holocaust Museum anywhere other than in the center of the city. I don't know why we can't learn the lesson of critical mass from cities like DC. There are already numerous museums in downtown Jackson. People come to those musuems. It only makes sense to put the Civil Rights Museum downtown, too. Makes it a one stop shop.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-02T16:24:33-06:00

ID

98835

Comment

The two times I've been there were a couple of buses of people, and others going to the paddle boat. Also, I dig the nature trail! I'm a museum geek in some regards. Heck, I've been to High Point, NC City's museum - they even had an exhibit dedicated to sit-ins in there area. Museums are a good way to kill time - if you can find them! That is a key on whether I go or not. If i have to find the National Civil Rights museum at Tougaloo then I probably wouldn't go. I'll go to Smith Robertson or the Sports Hall of Fame. And, God forbid you get lost on one of the side streets off State - like Brown St!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-02T16:38:56-06:00

ID

98836

Comment

If i have to find the National Civil Rights museum at Tougaloo then I probably wouldn't go. Oh come on! If you found the MS River Museum, I'll just bet you wouldn't have any trouble finding something by Tougaloo! I just hope that the museum itself is so good that even if they built it in downtown Madison, all the people that participate in these threads would fight for tickets to the grand opening!

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-02T16:51:26-06:00

ID

98837

Comment

t I don't believe for a second that the museum will be "out of sight, out of mind" for the majority of Jacksonians if it's located at Tougaloo. Tom, I know you've chosen a side that you plan to argue regardless, but you do need to get some basic facts straight to build on (much as in your adamant posts recently about the diversity and geography of Fondren, which turned out to be more about taking a position in an argument than in basing it on actual reality). The truth is that people who have organized events both at Tougaloo and at Jackson State, as I have, know how difficult it is to draw a diverse crowd to those events (especially to view something that make white people uncomfortable, such as a lynching exhibit and an Emmitt Till talk). We, sadly, are still living in a place where white people don't like to go to black campuses and neighborhoods. Meantime, though, those of us who help organize diverse events here know the need to find "neutral" territory if we want them to be successful (ironically and wonderfully, the museum press conference was the most diverse I've ever seen at Smith Robertson, which can even be hard to get white people to.) Yes, this is horribly tragic, and it needs to be changed. We're doing what we can, and we should all continue to. However. Being that that is the reality here and now, and also being that a National Civil Rights Museum needs to draw a diverse audience in order to serve its ultimate, its overriding purpose (to educate people about the Civil Rights Movement) will be limited by putting the museum at Tougaloo, just as it would have been really stupid to put it on Lakeland Drive as apparently the consultants wanted early on. It is also true that Jackson is going to look really backward if we tell a group of conventioneers (like hundreds from AAN sometime soon, perhaps) that they have to load up on a schoolbus, go up the interstate and turn left next to Target/Red Lobster to get to the National Civil Rights Museum -- instead of, say: "After you leave the King Edward (which closed in part due to integrationJ), walk down past the historic Greyhound station where the Freedom Rides culminated, then head over to Farish Street, which was once a thriving black business district, where early blues and soul records were first recorded ... and on and on. Frankly, consultants who would choose the Target/Red Lobster option sound a bit more like the type who do cowboy museums in small Tennessee towns than people who understand the motivations and inclinations of people, both from inside Mississippi and beyond, who will spend a day at a Civil Rights Museum. Tougaloo's place in that museum can be ensured easily; we all know that. Their role in the movement should not even be a consideration in this decision; the placement and potential draw should be the utmost. And, although perhaps not to elderly white consultants from Murphrees-something, Tenn., but the economic impact on a majority-black capital city in the state hit hardest by slavery, black codes and Jim Crow (which happens to be the state with the highest proportion of African Americans)--that economic impact should be considered. What we're seeing, instead, is provincial politics, school loyalty and petty turf wars—not to mention secrets, inconsistent stories and tricks to limit how many Downtown supporters can actually show up to support a non-Tougaloo option. None of that is acceptable.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T17:10:04-06:00

ID

98838

Comment

Not much on their page that would indicate a sensitivity to or interest in Civil Rights Not at all. Maybe it makes it make sense why they want a "pastoral" setting, though. Because they're a little bit country? Also, we've heard they have a design already, before those chose a spot. I really hope we can unearth more of how this process has worked, who stands to benefit, etc. Certainly, Rico, it could benefit Barbour and his party (or his surviving wing of it) for there not to be a strong civil rights museum around the corner from the governor's mansion andd the capitol. Beyond the benefits of keeping such efforts (and thus voting bases) divided and dispersed, there is the very obvious point that he ran on an "attacking our flag" platform in order to appeal to the darker instincts of many Mississippians. I'd guess he thinks that many of those Mississippians will be happier with him and his if he helps relegate such a shocking museum to a black campus, "where it belongs anyway." As for other benefits, it can't hurt him to have some pandering Tougalooans feeling like they owe him a favor as the GOP tries to figure out their future, which is going to need to include a repudiation of their racist southern strategy, which he helped write--or at least powerful AFrican Americans who will stand up and praise the former southern strategist for bringing a civil rights museum to "Jackson." Of course, politics are play here. The only question is how many, and who is falling prey?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T17:14:58-06:00

ID

98839

Comment

I agree. Let's all commit to at least support the museum, no matter where it ends up, because that's the X factor in all of this. It's going to need support, whether it's downtown or at Tougaloo or under a neon sign in Vegas, or it'll end up like the last of those traveling museum exhibits that Pat Fordice brought down here. All this argument and recrimination and folks are seriously considering not adding 15 minutes to their driving schedules to support the museum when it opens? Good grief.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T17:14:59-06:00

ID

98840

Comment

Good grief, indeed. Tom, you haven't even wanted to consider the possibility that its placement there could hurt its success. You're repeating the same thing over andd over again anyway; why don't you take a rest on this topic andd allow other people the space to make their point, while sparing us the "good griefs" because we won't listen to you and others and shut up about it? This conversation is continuing.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T17:17:39-06:00

ID

98841

Comment

And if the people doing this museum want community support to make it succeed, then they need to start asking for, and listening to, community input on where it should go, and why. That's the stage we're in right now, and it's not over.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T17:19:17-06:00

ID

98842

Comment

It's not, and the discussion is obviously worthwhile, but this notion of boycotting the state's civil rights museum is exceedingly weird and something I'm kind of surprised to see you defend.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T17:35:00-06:00

ID

98843

Comment

Tom, I didn't see any mention of boycotting the museum. Admittedly, I scanned quickly due to extreme repetition of points already made on other posts. I am not defending a boycott of the civil rights museum, so do me the honor of not saying that or going around again and saying that I said or did something I've never said or done because you disagree with me on something. And for the record, we're also not having a big fight so spare us the dramatic posts about that as well. I'm just responding to your mischaracterizations of my words, which I get real sick of doing so often of late. And, seriously, your repetition here is tedious. Please allow other people to express their opinions before piling on the "good griefs." If you have something new to add, fine.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T17:39:51-06:00

ID

98844

Comment

Donna, see pikersam's post from 4:38pm. That's what I was responding to. Here's the "something new" I was trying to add: Can we all agree that we'll support the museum no matter where it's put down? Because it's easy to imagine a scenario where downtown supporters say they'll boycott the museum if it's at Tougaloo, Tougaloo supporters say they'll boycott the museum if it's downtown, and everybody ends up losing.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T17:44:42-06:00

ID

98845

Comment

Pike wrote at 4:38 p.m.: hat is a key on whether I go or not. If i have to find the National Civil Rights museum at Tougaloo then I probably wouldn't go. So, this is your big, dramatic call for a boycott that I was then turning around and, supposedly, supporting, Tom? I'm not sure what's worse in that—your reading comprehension or the insult to either Pike or me of making that sound like we're calling for a boycott. In your words: GOOD GRIEF. Obviously, Pike was stating a reality that he sees for himself: that he is not as likely to go to Tougaloo to a museum. And regardless of what you think of that, it is easy enough for everyone reading this to ask yourself: Did I go to JSU for the lynching exhibit? Do I regularly go to Tougaloo for the excellent events they sponsor? Or even: Do I go to openings and events at Smith Robertson? Being honest with the answers to that is nowhere akin to calling for a frickin' boycott, and I will trust that you will not put words in people's mouth again on this site to try to build your case. I'm tired of it, and I'm tired of the games behind it. At this stage, I believe the focus should remain on getting the museum downtown, not on offering an it'll-be-fine-no-matter-what handshake. I, and many others here, do not believe that it will be fine at the location that has been chosen by a Tougaloo-packed committee and the Tennessee consultants. Staying strong about that goal has nothing to do with boycotting the museum. I trust that most people reading this get that. Tom, my final advice to you to wipe all the argumentative sleep from your eyes and start, again, paying attention to what people actually say as you used to be much better at doing. Something is clouding your judgement of and your responses to people these days, and I don't really care what it is. But I will not allow you to continue this game here and accuse people of things they are not saying. It's against the rules, even for you.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T17:57:33-06:00

ID

98846

Comment

It is also true that Jackson is going to look really backward if we tell a group of conventioneers (like hundreds from AAN sometime soon, perhaps) that they have to load up on a schoolbus, go up the interstate and turn left next to Target/Red Lobster to get to the National Civil Rights Museum -- instead of, say: "After you leave the King Edward (which closed in part due to integrationJ), walk down past the historic Greyhound station where the Freedom Rides culminated, then head over to Farish Street, which was once a thriving black business district, where early blues and soul records were first recorded ... and on and on. You know, this post kind of gave me an idea- it is probably a stupid one but I'm going to share it anyway... What if those conventioneers did have to get on a bus to see the museum, and of course had to sit in the back of it? What if the museum actually stretched from the bus station downtown, and went all the way out to Tougaloo- with lots and lots of interactive things- like as you look out the windows have it to where they can display things so that it looks like you are still seeing out the window, but instead of seeing outside, you are seeing either actual footage or re-enactments of what took place at that location during more turbulent times? The main museum could be split between downtown and Tougaloo, but the real attraction would be the bus ride as it goes by JSU, the old Woolworths, Medger Evers house, etc... Maybe it is a silly idea, but I'm trying to think on a grand scale- I really do want this place to be something special...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-02T17:59:32-06:00

ID

98847

Comment

I think that's kind of a cool idea, Rico -- regardless of where the museum goes. Don't they do something like that, kind of, in Memphis?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-02T18:00:53-06:00

ID

98848

Comment

I don't know- sad to say I haven't been there yet- even though I go to Memphis quite a bit, I can't ever find a hotel room downtown at a reasonable rate, so I tend to stay either in Tunica or East Memphis where it is cheap...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-02T18:04:14-06:00

ID

98849

Comment

Yeah.Tom..dont put words in folks mouths..Thats how misinformation gets put out...You have to know how socially irresponsible that is. Cmon now you know better. You know how quickly in THIS town that could become a wldfire :-) What we should be doin..speaking of boycotting..is boycotting the yahoos who were instrumental in this coup. Im going to the museum regardless but I can pledge not to support any of the businesses that these gentlemen run. Hurt THEIR pockets like theyre hurting the city's pockets. Additionally try to ensure that NONE of them are ever put in positions or on committees or commissions where they can hurt our city again. Because thats how Im taking it..As someone trying to financially handicap my city.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T18:05:38-06:00

ID

98850

Comment

Donna, sent ya two emails...

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-02T18:43:13-06:00

ID

98851

Comment

Tom, I certainly wouldn't boycott the Musuem - I'll got to it regardless. To me, this is simply about where is the best place to put the Museum to (1) guarantee its future success and (2) reach the broadest audience of people. I think downtown Jackson is, hands down, that place. This is not to say that there are not arguments that can be made in favor of a Tougaloo location. It is to say, I believe, that those arguments fail when faced with the arguments as to why it should go downtown.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-02T19:10:36-06:00

ID

98852

Comment

First of all, I wouldn't boycott the museum either. Second, the MS River Museum is right at the entrance to Fitzgerald's, so it is near the gaming centers in that area. If you go to Target or drive down State St do you even know that Tougaloo is there? No - unless you know the area. Now, I will read the post since I've been gone and get caught up.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-02T20:47:42-06:00

ID

98853

Comment

Well, actually what I was saying is if a museum, any museum, is easy to find, I am more likely to go when I am traveling. Do you think I would have gone to the museum in High Point, NC had it not of been right downtown where I was staying? I was there for business with time to kill. A museum nearby was much more appealing then the same old shopping thing ya know. It is one thing to "plan" to go see an exhibit, it is another to go on a whim! A whim is the difference between a good museum and a great museum. Like once in Rome we were seeing the sites, and a smaller museum had a Gustav Klimt exhibit. Well, we took a couple of hours out of our planned day and checked it out. That kind of essential business will not happen when you are visiting Jackson for a convention or to go to the Art Museum or before a show at Thalia Mara.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-02T21:00:28-06:00

ID

98854

Comment

pikersam, thanks for the clarification. Nobody's talking about boycotting the museum if it ends up at Tougaloo, which is good to hear. Matt, I'm not sure I disagree but the tone of all of this is very negative. This is the first time any of us have probably heard it stated by so many people in such forceful terms that Tougaloo is not part of Jackson. It technically isn't because it has its own designation as Tougaloo, Mississippi, but that's like saying that the University of Mississippi isn't in Oxford because it's in University, Mississippi, or that Mississippi State University isn't in Starkville because it's in Mississippi State, Mississippi.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T22:29:01-06:00

ID

98855

Comment

Tom, true enough. But if my school, MSU, did this - with the president on the board of the location committee and other trustee/board members, I believe (correct me if I am wrong on that fact) - I would not be OK with it. The tone is negative becuase of the process. The process stinks. If the process has been transparent and Tougaloo chosen, I don't think you would hear this outcry. But it wasn't transparant. Jackson got hoodwinked.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-02T23:04:24-06:00

ID

98856

Comment

MAllen writes: "The tone is negative becuase of the process. The process stinks. If the process has been transparent and Tougaloo chosen, I don't think you would hear this outcry." Hmmm. Matt, that's a very good point; the process certainly should have been more transparent.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-02T23:30:39-06:00

ID

98857

Comment

It's interesting to watch the proponents of putting the museum at Tougaloo turn it into a divisive thing—everyone who is supporting the museum downtown is a fan of Tougaloo, as far as I can tell. But our words are being turned on us; that's an insidious trick, but it shouldn't stop those who want the museum downtown, and to figure out what happened with the seemingly biased process, from speaking out. And calling us "negative" won't work, either. That's a tired trick, often used by those doing the hoodwinking. Thanks for clarifying your comment, Pike, although I think just about everybody got it the first time.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T09:08:16-06:00

ID

98858

Comment

I want go if its at tougaloo because the politics that went behind it to place it at tougaloo, and iam black. We are getting railroaded and it shouldn't be like that. I bet they gone want us to spend our money but dont want to have this process open to the public. So yeah Tom Head i will boycott the Museum because it aint a real Civil rights Museum its a tainted black face Museum. Tom you dont have to be stubborn, i just dont see your logic man you are head strong for tougaloo and i dont see why.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-03T09:47:35-06:00

ID

98859

Comment

NJ, I share Matt Allen's position that both locations have their advantages and that the process was not adequately transparent; but the attacks on those who do not completely agree with DJP's position on this issue, including longtime regular Ray Carter, veteran legislator John Horhn, Charles Evers, for God's sake, etc., are indeed negative and divisive.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-03T13:05:21-06:00

ID

98860

Comment

Ummm... I don't have any association with DJP, and even I know that Downtown is a better location. Why do you keep assuming that the JFP is aligned with DJP based on one publication? So, you don't believe Ben Allen and McLemore when they say that Jackson wasn't allowed to bring supporters to our presentation? But, you will believe a stacked Tougaloo deck that says they didn't do anything to favor Tougaloo as a location? On a City-wide note - Glad to learn that the future of the Tougaloo area is much more important to Jackson's future over all of West and South Jackson! Please....

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-03T13:34:12-06:00

ID

98861

Comment

Not at all, pike. Downtown may in fact be the better location. Doesn't mean that anyone who feels otherwise deserves to be treated like the enemy, which is exactly what's happening here.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-03T13:36:53-06:00

ID

98862

Comment

Incidentally, no conspiracy implied re: the DJP thing. As Donna has already pointed out, Boom Jackson has its own staff. And personally, I'm glad that the JFP's office space has recently doubled.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-03T13:38:07-06:00

ID

98863

Comment

Charles Evers thinks the museum should be downtown. John Horne didnt have an opinion he just sheepishly followed the recommendation of the commission chocked full of folks he feels he needs to get re-elected. Get your head out of the sand friend and get hip to the mechanics of things going on around you in and out of back rooms ans secluded booths in swanky restaurants..You may not have an opinion one way or the other and you may not think its even effective but for your sake you must acknowledge its existence..Its chess...not checkers good buddy. Be moderate..I am..Be compromising.be positive...be a bridge...but by all means dont be naive.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-03T13:42:07-06:00

ID

98864

Comment

Charles Evers thinks the museum should be downtown? That's pretty significant, and it hasn't been reported in the press. Wouldn't key facts like that be more important, in terms of gathering public support, than all this talk of a Tougaloo conspiracy?

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-03T13:49:55-06:00

ID

98865

Comment

Yes, we've talked about Mr. Evers' support of this already on one of these threads. That's known already. Otherwise, I deleted all the distasteful and/or off-topic stuff. I need to see every comment about the civil rights museum be respectful and on-topic without personal insults. That applies to every one of you. The JFP isn't your public group therapy session, boyz.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T14:20:08-06:00

ID

98866

Comment

Whatever i know you got to patrol your site and keep order and you cant allow any kind of behavior to go on, but if people want to lie and support lies i have a right to call them out, This is my city that has been rapped and robbed for years by decisions like the Tougaloo one. And people cant go hiding behind "NO NAME CALLING" When they get exposed. Thats why young people leave Jackson in Droves to go to Atlanta or Houston we are tired of seeing the genocide on our city and all we are told to do is behave, But the people we are told to reverence are the same ones who are killing My city. Whats a fighter to do when the fight is already fixed.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-03T14:23:08-06:00

ID

98867

Comment

NJ, if the museum ends up downtown, Tougaloo will still need downtown Jackson's support and vice versa. We're all in this together. (Donna, just between us, I was kind of hoping you would delete a couple of my posts up there. I apologize for the tone.)

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-03T14:59:42-06:00

ID

98868

Comment

You can fight what you believe is right without calling people names or lodging personal attacks, NewJack. At least when you're fighting here. We are now on red alert. I will suspend the next person who violates the User Agreement. Try me.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T15:00:25-06:00

ID

98869

Comment

Apology accepted, Tom. Now, all you men please stop behaving badly.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T15:01:37-06:00

ID

98870

Comment

Thanks, Donna; I'm on decaf now, so that should help. ;o) I do think it's wonderful that the issue that has gotten so many people riled up--myself included--is the placement of the civil rights museum. That says something positive, I think, about how much all of us care about Jackson.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-03T15:08:40-06:00

ID

98871

Comment

Agreed. At long as people don't cross the line from passion into ego on the issue. And decaf is good. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T15:11:56-06:00