Jackson Free Press

"Change" has become the buzzword for 2008. I never thought such a tiny word could be so powerful. It holds promise for some, and negativity for others. Ultimately, I've found that those who shun a message of change are usually the ones who will benefit least from it, regardless of its benefit to the greater good. They are the ones who are comfortable with the way things are.

In Mississippi, particularly Jackson, we've got to change the way we do business. Insanity is commonly defined as doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Hence, my city could be diagnosed as clinically insane. Traditionally, there are a select few who make decisions that will not only affect you, but your children and their children. Deals are made, handshakes occur, and policy is shaped while we sleep and work. We're left to deal with a future that has been shaped for us, not by us.

Such is the case with the proposed civil rights museum to be located at Tougaloo College. I won't bore you with semantics. I'm sure you've heard plenty on the issue in the past few days. The bottom line, though, is that those entrusted as the gatekeepers—the elders in our community—have to start making decisions with their heads and not with their hearts. Choices should be made with good common sense and business sense. The time of selfish choices and decisions made with agendas is past. But my question is, do we expect anything different when committees and boards are comprised of the same people who collectively make the same choices based on the same premises?

We've become the same folks who continue to conjure up Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. We look to the same people who have made their money, left the community and haven't done a damn thing to help it. Do we hold any of these "leaders" accountable for the decisions they make?

Why wouldn't a process such as housing a national civil rights museum be transparent to begin with? Why were there no committee members under 40? And how did the city allow a team to be assembled that was chock full of Tougaloo graduates to begin with? Was it an oversight, or did we fall victim to "business as usual"?

Until Downtown Jackson is operating at full strength, until Farish Street is booming and patrons frequent the area, Jackson needs to become the bully by the locker. We need to fight for our fiscal health. We need to grab every opportunity. Do you want your children inheriting a broke city? Do you wish to continue seeing our best and brightest take their talents, ideas and businesses elsewhere?

Jackson is the heart of this state, and without a healthy heart pumping blood to its extremities, the body flounders. Likewise, downtown is the heart of our city, and unless we take care of it, the arms and legs (north Jackson, south Jackson, west Jackson and northeast Jackson) will atrophy. Jackson is experiencing congestive heart failure. But those entrusted with means to revive her are selfishly putting their loyalties elsewhere. Love for an alma mater is one thing, but I'm Jackson born, Jackson bred and, when I die, I will be Jackson dead! That love supersedes all others.

We have started a new movement, one that seeks to revive Jackson. It's growing bigger by the day. This time, the movement will include all men and women, black and white, liberal and conservative. This revolution will be televised. It will be broadcast by radio, and in print and on blogs. We've got to change the way we've done business. If that means we need to change some of the people involved, then so be it. But I can't sit back any longer and let them make decisions for us that aren't in the best interest of us all. Who will stand with me?

And that's the truth ... sho-nuff.

Previous Comments

ID

76146

Comment

"I was born by the river in a little tent. And just like the river, I've been running every since. It's been a long time coming, but I know a change is gonna come. Oh, yes it will. It's been too hard living, but i'm afraid to die, 'cause I don't know what's up there beyond the sky. It's been a long time coming but I know a change is gonna come, oh yes it will. And then I go to my brother, and I ask him to help me please. And he winds up knocking me back down to my knees. There were times when I thought I couldn't last for long, but now I know I'm able to carry on. It's been a long time coming but I know a change gonna come. Oh yes it will." Tougaoo was there like a beacon of hope, fortress and santuary when there were few if any other places in Jackson for Civil Rights workers to safely mope and plan their tactics to overcome Jim Crow. Tougaloo boldly risked careers, lives, charter, existence and mere survival to bring about this fleeting change when few or no other schools or colleges or unconnected individuals would dare to thread or challenge the status quo in the manner that Tougaloo students were too happy to accomodate or oblige. While it might make sense to put the Civil Rights museum down town, the legacy and history of Civil Rights in Mississippi will not be compromised in any fashion by placing the museum at or near Tougaloo College. It might even be enhanced. It seems to me that Sam Cooke's prophetic and timely lyrics, usurped as the title of this column, were wasted, misconstrued and pervertedly misused. I resent it gravely. It seems to me that the author mistakenly beleives the mere location of the museum is tantamount to the Civil Right Movement itself.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T10:11:39-06:00

ID

76147

Comment

Thanks Ray. You can always be counted on to put things into perspective for not only Black folks but for folks in general. I wonder what purpose does it serve to dog Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. When they were risking their lives holding hands walking the streets for justice and equality with Dr. King, going to jail, being spit on, washed down with fire hoses and guarded by German Shepherd Dogs, where was this author? The tone and spirit of this article seems to be one that will keep certain folks from feeling offended. I know that some folks like Ben Allen who is now pretending to be such a supporter of the Farish Street Project will not welcome certain Blacks. I also have seen these kinds of political movements in the past were others are used to get rid of "trouble makers" who for the most part are well thinking people; working for the greater good. Some of the decisions made in the past by brave black men and women and also some Whites set the platform that allows for this author's voice to be heard. Some of the folks and their strategies that are now being criticized were ones where -in people lost homes, land, jobs and even their lives. Seems that some sensitivity training and some historical fact finding are in order before this great movement crashes.

Author

justjess

Date

2008-02-28T10:55:51-06:00

ID

76148

Comment

Yes, Justjess, I hate to do this to Kamikaze. I love his zeal, daring nature or courage and him desire to move beyond the past. He has a good mind and oratoriccal skills to match, but "his history" doesn't seem to matter to him as he makes this hurried and arguably blind trek into the new age of Mississippi that is likely only a mirage anyway. It doesn't seem to matter to him if the persons he's trying so hard to appeal to will ignore and discount their histories too. I just wish I could teach him some history and caution to go with his other attributes. I'll keep challenging his blind spots until he makes it real clear that none of us can tell him anything any more. He's not alone though. Those who don't know thieir history, don't know their future either.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T11:17:37-06:00

ID

76149

Comment

Some decisions should be made for financial reasons. The location of the Civil Rights museum is NOT one of these. The topic is too important to be relgated to an economic decision. It is, frankly, an insult to those who suffered during the struggle to boil it down to making money for one city or another. The civil rights movement was not about making money for Jackson. Its commemoration should not be either. The Governor's commission on the Civil Rights museum's location was not some secret group. There were hearings and anyone interested could submit documents or make whatever case they wanted. They operated according to the Open Meetings law. I highly suspect that the co-chair, Judge Pickering (!), was not swayed by Tougaloo sentimentality.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-28T11:17:56-06:00

ID

76150

Comment

What I would love to know with great clarity is the author's real motivation for his fringe commentaries? I'm quite worried that they're selfish or intended to injure black folks generally, as a hit man, for the other man.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T11:39:58-06:00

ID

76151

Comment

I went back and read Kamikaze's column again trying to decipher if it's anything other than classic empty-headed bullcrap. I'm afraid it isn't. I wonder why he obsesses so with Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson, neither of which lives in Mississippi, and neither of which has caused any of the damage to Mississippi that he often and specifically complains about, and yet he never or rarely says a damn thing about Trent Lott, Thad Cochran or the likewised republicans, who are from Mississippi and are responsible largely for our lacking racial progress and coming of age in Mississippi. If Kaze's commentary here is any reflection of the mindsets and cerebral substance of those under forty, then perhaps Joe Clark was totally right when he said "the problem with young folks is they don't know sh!t." What revoulution does he refer to? Is it the misapplied language stolen from Gil Scott Heron who used the same words some 30 years or so ago when he talked about a revolution that never occurred, or is it the one obscurring his mind from reality or clarity to what and where he is? I want to see Kaze 5, 10 and 20 years from now to see where he is, what he's preaching and what he's learned. You can't cure cancer if you're scared to address or attack it directly, or you chose to address and attack some other disease instead. Sadly, it looks like no one is going to stand with Kaze besides me and you, Jusjess, and I suggest we keep as much distance as possible, for I'm worried he might just slap one of us to please his other intended audience, if they even exist. Jessie and Al today. Ray and Justjess tomorrow. Never Trent, Thad, et al. It might be hard to beleieve by now, Kaze, but I still love you.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T13:27:57-06:00

ID

76152

Comment

w o w

Author

skipp

Date

2008-02-28T13:37:49-06:00

ID

76153

Comment

(Sigh)..Lets backtrack a bit...again! Let me be very concise and clear so we dont have to tread this obviously sensitive territory again. Under no uncertain terms is there any other agenda here except me trying to push my city forward. I have gotten tired of certain people making decisions that will affect MY future. Especially without my demo being allowed to sit at that table. I refuse to inherit a city that is broke and I dont wish to leave a financially floundering city to my kids..So I have simply taken the initiative to act..And thank God I have had some very dedicated talented people who have decided to join me in this movement. I have been and will always be my own man. Im not to be bought, sold, or influenced to anything other than what is right by these hoods and by my city. I dont make "fringe comments". anyone that knows me knows I dont hold my tongue. And obviously its touched some nerves..GOOD! So without going much further..with due respect, love ya frat, but watch yo mouth in that regard. Secondly, let me make it abudantly clear that I have NOTHING but love and respect for those who have paved the way for me and mine. their blood. their sweat, and tears will not be forgotten. I benefit from the path they laid but I also realize that we as the new leaders must pave our own way. Using the lessons of the past. Using some of the methods of the past that ARENT outdated and mixing them with our own twists. I spoke at a few classes Wednesday at JSU and was floored when none of the students could tell me what Cointelpro was, or the Soveriegnty Commission, or the White Citizens council. Contrary to your comments I am well versed on my history and dont need "sensitivity training", thanks though. My mother made sure of it and what SHE didnt make me learn I sought out on my own..So yes, Im aware of Tougaloo's contributions to the civil rights struggle. Im aware of the Tougaloo 9, Im aware of the sit ins at the library, and students being arrested at Woolworth's. Ive BEEN up on that. shall we play the Jeopardy lightning round? don't insult my intelligence! Plus, I myself have great memories of going to NYSP at Tougaloo. It holds a special place in my heart. However, those achievements are neither more or less than the contributions of other fighters in the city, at JSU, or on Farish.. No one can "own" a movement. this is not a discussion on who has earned the most "stripes" in the movement. This is solely about the fiscal health of my city and no amount of school loyalty should override that. I dont wish to be left to pick up the pieces and ponder what if..when the museum goes to tougaloo and it fails..Leaving my generation with ANOTHER empty building because the decision makers used their hearts and NOT their heads. Its simple economics..Truth be told Ray, you will be gone and wont have to deal with that issue. Jess, Obviously you havent been following me for too long lol.. I LIVE to offend people. Im here to stir things up..this town has needed an enema for ten years and Ive decided Im going to be the guy to give it to it..Who would I not be trying to offend? Let me know so I can. We've been here before, with this same argument. I realize Jesse and Al paid a huge price while I was still in my mother's womb. No duh..but hell, at some point even Jackie Robinson, Joe Louis, Hank Aaron, and even Jordan had to retire...I think if you had your way you'd drag them out of their wheelchairs and off their deathbeds to swoop down and save black folks. You do realize new leaders have emerged huh? You do realize that they both have lost a little of their influence right? Wow, Obama has managed to run an entire campaign(and emerge as the front-runner) without pandering to either..and Im tickled to death about that..He's got so much momentum that THEY had to come to HIM. But in short. No one's forgetting history. Cuz when ya do..Youre doomed to repeat it..and Im not bucking for that ..but I am starting a new revolution with new leaders black and white, male and female, streets to the corporate suites..and as I said in my column..you can join us or we'll go around you.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:08:05-06:00

ID

76154

Comment

..and further..Mind you, its cute that you try to bait me..pick my brain..thats cool. but simply google former columns Ray and you'll see where Ive gone after Lott and Cochran...but they have nothing primarily to do with this issue other than the fact that they are a part of the cadre of folks who have been sitting at the table shaping my future for too long. they are not above reproach and are definitely included..Its plenty of blame to go around...Some of which can even fall at the feet of your antiquated tirades.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:13:45-06:00

ID

76155

Comment

I am glad to see that you conceded my point that all you are concerned with is economics. I did not attack you personally, so could you reply to my comments regarding this? It really upsets me that most of the debate has been either about economic stimulus or Tougaloo-boosting. I would like to have a serious philosophical debate as to whether it is appropriate to use the civil rights movement to make money.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-28T14:17:44-06:00

ID

76156

Comment

And Will, Ive read your comments and Im trying to decipher whether they are just ignorant of the facts or if you're trolling for a fight. If you had been reading ANYTHING on this issue you would have seen that the process was indeed "secret". did you even read the JFP piece? didya even read where Councilman Mclemore said he was told not to bring any folks to the presentations? Or how the names of the committee were withheld? Sheesh.. It was a hush hush process that those involved wanted to keep out of public scrutiny until the deal was closed(for Tougaloo) and Pickering and the rest of the white folks who voted for it didnt do it for sentiment..you're right! they did it so they wouldnt be called racists for going against a black college. Because, Im sure other than the tougaloo folks on that committee no one else really thought it was a "better" location than downtown. C'mon. Read man.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:20:00-06:00

ID

76157

Comment

I am not interested in fighting. If you believe that they violated state or federal law in this process you have a remedy: sue them. That is what the courts are for. Now, address my main point if you can.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-28T14:25:33-06:00

ID

76158

Comment

Museums traditionally dont make money Will. That much we know. there are a scarce few in the nation that turn a profit. It is our duty to give this museum(based on our current situation and history of such endeavors)the BEST possible chance to be successful. and that means putting it in its most central location where it can benefit from the most traffic. This museum(and museums in general) should not be affiliated with or tied to ANY institution. If they proposed JSU I would have done the same thing. It needs to belong to everyone and be put in a central location...Logistically speaking, I dont think tougaloo folks thought this through. Just as one current TOUGALOO student who came to the press conference said(and she supports a downtown location) what about safety? what happens when folks start pouring on the campus after visiting the museum? I dunno. could be nothing..could be something..It just simply doesnt make sense.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:26:07-06:00

ID

76159

Comment

Antiquated? Whaat? I'm as new and fresh as any of you young whippersnapper.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T14:27:52-06:00

ID

76160

Comment

Will..I just said. this is not a cicil rights issue. this is NOT about who has earned the most stripes. Not interested in that fight. Im interested in my city not going broke and Im interested in seeing Farish flourish(which could make just as compelling an argument to house the museum) and downtown Jackson come alive..I want my city to be destination city...Im tired of folks using my city as stop through on their way to memphis or new orleans..So Im with progress downtown..After thats up and running at fullsteam..you can haggle over locations then.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:31:26-06:00

ID

76161

Comment

Now you are contradicting yourself. I did not say that the museum was there to make money. Your argument all along has been that it would be a stimulus to the Jackson economy. Your main concern is for Jackson, not the museum. As for central location, that is a red herring. If you can go to Target you can go to Tougaloo. If you can go to the Natural Science museum you can go to Tougaloo. If you can go to the reservoir you can go to Tougaloo. If you can go to the airport you can go to Tougaloo. All of these make money for the city and are not centrally located. Security is a red herring as well. The museum would be outside of the campus fence and would have its own entrance and parking. Growth for Jackson does not have to all be downtown.

Author

Willezurmacht

Date

2008-02-28T14:33:04-06:00

ID

76162

Comment

Safety is the same issue no matter where the location is. If at or near Tougaloo the museum will be made safe. The museum will be for everyone who is interested in being included. Since when did Tougaloo become an emblem of separation or division? Stop believing the bullcrap of your new friends dumb-ass friends. I know of no institution in Mississippi that reflects a truer or more honest acceptance of all people than Tougaloo. I happen to know that not everyone wants the museum to be for them, just as there are many people who don't want the museum here at all. You might be concerned about that group too, but I'm not.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T14:38:46-06:00

ID

76163

Comment

OK Ray Carter, let me try my hand at this one. I think that I am older than you; however, if "Truth be told Ray, you will be gone and won't have to deal with that issue." LOL! Let me just speak for a second about the obituary file: One yesterday around 7:30 in the am, my daughter-in-law's brother was riding a bike to work in Louisiana. He lost a wonderful job with great benifits secondary to the events of Katrina. He was struck by a truck. His injuries included a broken neck, back, hip; a cracked skull and the mouth was opened all the way to the back of the neck. He died a few hours ago. I don't mean to gross the readers out here: I'm just saying that anything can happen to anyone at anytime. He was 32 years old. So, Kaze, how do you know that Ray Carter won't be at your furneral reading that little passage in the OBITUARY whick says, "SURVIVED BY."

Author

justjess

Date

2008-02-28T14:44:14-06:00

ID

76164

Comment

Okay Ray..youre digressing good buddy..Never said anything about seperatist..read my first long repsonse..that in and of itself should ahve summed it up...Its anew day, and a new age, wit new folks Ray..cmon brother face it. Im concerned about any and everyone who is preventing Farish first and subsequently all of downtown from growing and prospering. And the museum is a part of that.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:45:20-06:00

ID

76165

Comment

Cmopn Jess..youre digressing too...Can any of you put up a fight on this at all...Ray may very well be at MY funeral. Thats in Gods hands..Figuratively speaking then..Ray MAY be gone..my apologies..oh brother.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:48:07-06:00

ID

76166

Comment

And Ray..I realize you are a Tougaloo grad..So I can handle your superlatives for your college..But I graduated from the FINEST HBCU n all the land Jackson State University..the Summa Cum Laude of the SWAC and where most of the Tougaloo women find their boyfriends and husbands btw LOL..but Ill stop there...What place better exemplifies it than Tougaloo..how about JSU. There. But again this isnt a pissing contest between Jacksonians and Tougalooans. :-) I love my school too. Just not enough to try and put the museum there

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:51:45-06:00

ID

76167

Comment

Kaze, I like all that stuff you preach about moving the state forward and about a new coalition of young people of all races and both sexes changing the racial landscape of Mississippi. I would love to see it happen. But I can't lie, I'm worried that you're not strong and schooled enough to hold off your new friends who I know plan to dominate and use you in ways you can't imagine yet. I've seen it happen over and over again to the detriment of the user and like kinds of people. I don't like fakery or pretense.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T14:52:33-06:00

ID

76168

Comment

Ray..I appreciate your concern..But momma raised a smart boy..One who plays chess not checkers...This city made a street smart man...And trust, I work in and have made my living in the most treacherous, dirty, filthy, underhanded, duplicitous, unrighteous, unsafe business that there is to be in..Ive almost(and repeat only ALMOST) seen it all..the charcters there mimic the characters in this city..Momma didnt raise no fool and made a man who will always be a stand-up king about his biz..As I told folks when I got thrust into all this..Ill back out and not even be involved before I switch or cow tow to anyones agenda other than these kids and the well being of my city. I got this..and what I dont have..I will ask for advice and guidance..Cuz frankly, I DONT know it all..And everyday I learn...But aint nothin slick to a can of oil player...

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T14:58:14-06:00

ID

76169

Comment

I love JSU. Lots of Tougaloo graduates go there for advance degrees too such as Benny Thompson. If there were real justice in the world, JSU would be that medical school on State Street too.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T15:02:25-06:00

ID

76170

Comment

Wil..Good LORD!! what point..Ive made all my points..I wouldnt need Tougaloo to teach me anything..I went to JSU..Im straight but thanks..Just debated a Millsaps professor on Millsaps campus about the virtues of free speech..And judging from the applause in the room I won..Obviously you think youre dealing with a dummy..lol but rappers are used to it..and JSU grads are used to that coming from Tougalooans too. Point. At this point...any and everything substantivethat comes into JAckson needs to be used to bolster our infrastructure. On paper, tougaloo has only one point of debate, its history, which in and of itself is no more or no less than other entities in this state. On paper, point by point, Tougaloo loses on every issue. If you keep this discussion in an emotional realm you may have a punchers chance..but a weak one. You simply dont have an argument other than "Hey, we were a part of the civil rights struggle"...that wont win your cased for a museum buddy.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T15:04:30-06:00

ID

76171

Comment

If the Civil Rights Museum doesn't end up downtown, downtown is still looking at many hundreds of millions of dollars worth of private economic development. If the Civil Rights Museum doesn't end up near Tougaloo, this could be the last opportunity we'll have for decades to put a $55M development in that part of town and jump start private investment. Downtown is better for the museum. The Tougaloo area needs the help more. There are compelling arguments for both locations, and wherever we stand on this issue, I don't see why we can't respect both arguments. Hell, there's even a compelling argument for putting the museum in the Delta. The people on this committee have an incredibly hard decision to make. If it ends up near Tougaloo, I'm glad it'll at least be Jackson, the city of Medgar Evers and a central location accessible to people from all over the state--and maybe, just maybe, the Tougaloo area will experience the kind of renaissance that Fondren and downtown have experienced.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-28T15:17:35-06:00

ID

76172

Comment

"The Real Tigers" comment locked the door and threw away the key on Kaze.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-28T15:24:02-06:00

ID

76173

Comment

I did not realize that the LSU Debate Team won a national championship.

Author

blueshead

Date

2008-02-28T15:57:51-06:00

ID

76174

Comment

And, right, Ray, there is *nothing* thoughtful in Kaze's column. Not even: Until Downtown Jackson is operating at full strength, until Farish Street is booming and patrons frequent the area, Jackson needs to become the bully by the locker. We need to fight for our fiscal health. We need to grab every opportunity. Do you want your children inheriting a broke city? Do you wish to continue seeing our best and brightest take their talents, ideas and businesses elsewhere? As of this moment, I don't want to see another personal attack from anyone here. It's over. Talk about the issues without all the goofy belittlement (satire or not), or take a hike. This thread seems to be one big exercise is misplaced male ego, and this Web site is not the place.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-28T18:28:15-06:00

ID

76175

Comment

Wil, first of all. I dont need anyone to protect me. Donna is merely policing her sight. Ive been on the receiving end before so deal with it. Actually I was holding you guys and your baseless, emotional arguments at bay with one hand. Quite frankly, I answered and closed this with my 2:08pm post. The rest of the responses were just to entertain you and Ray. Im one who makes my responses and bows out..Ill stay for actual debatable issues in which the opposing viewpoints can offer me substantive arguments based on facts and tangible elements not emotion and ideals. If you are for Jackson's growth (In which Tougaloo will benefit from) then you are for a central location. If you are a Jackson ''pessimist'' or Tougaloo supporter then you probably arent. Simple as that. Im a businessman. The first and last time I made an emotional decision it cost me and Banner over a 100,000 dollars. So Im probably not the guy to try and appeal to emotionally. I answered you 3-4 times Wil, what more do you need ?? Ray's just being Ray but you're arguing an issue that you cant win. Even if I entertained your sentimental argument you still would lose because JSU AND FARISH AND The DELTA etc etc..could make a valid debatable case for their civil rights history. But again you dont make BUSINESS decisions with your heart..At least not in the case of a city thats on life support..Atlanta, Memphis, New Orleans sure...THEY can afford to miss a museum or two. Jackson cant. So do we need to use a civil rights museum to make money...ya damn skippy...Cuz its Jackson...Aaaaaand scene.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T19:57:07-06:00

ID

76176

Comment

I don't entirely agree with Kaze--as I've said before, either location is fine with me--but his article here is as rock solid as my masculine identity. *insert awkward pause here* I've done enough asserting on this topic. I'd like to answer some of the really good questions that Kaze raises with more questions: "Why wouldn’t a process such as housing a national civil rights museum be transparent to begin with?" How transparent are decisions like these in general? Is this more or less transparent than comparable decisions made by the legislature? Is the relative non-transparency conspicuous, or just a function of how state government tends to operate? If it's the latter, what measures are we prepared to advocate to correct that? Can we name another state that handles decisions like these in a more transparent way? Do they have policies in place that lead to such transparency, and can they be adopted in Mississippi? "Why were there no committee members under 40?" Do committees on museum-related issues typically have any members under 40? Does the generation that was alive during the Medgar Evers era have more of a right to say where the museum should be placed than younger folks? Does Mississippi's political leadership, in both parties, have difficulty integrating younger folks into the movement? (That last one is a rhetorical question, I think.) "And how did the city allow a team to be assembled that was chock full of Tougaloo graduates to begin with?" Did Tougaloo play a particularly significant role in Mississippi's civil rights movement? Would a committee made up of local figures concerned with, and interested in, this issue naturally be disproportionately representative of Tougaloo alumni? Is this necessarily indicative of a bias? I'm bowing out of the thread at this point--I think people are tired of hearing from Tom Head on this issue--but I haven't really seen folks take a hard look at Kaze's questions, which strike me as good questions and much more interesting than the question of relative penis size.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-28T20:49:24-06:00

ID

76177

Comment

Can't we all just get along? I knew that the museum issue could get a little heated, but this is the worst I've seen in a long time. It's sad, really, because I like all the people that left comments here, and I would hate for anyone to decide to stop posting on the blogs because of this.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-02-28T21:48:13-06:00

ID

76178

Comment

One of things we must change in this town..Some must learn to disagree without being disagreeable. We can adamantly disagree but that doesnt mean Im going to burn your house down or wont drink a beer with you..Its unfortunate that people think this will be a polarizing issue. It shouldnt be...We have to change how we do business. I was talking with someone about this very same thing yesterday..A person who worked on a campaign for.chuck Espy said Bennie was still visibly ''mad'' at him for working with Chuck.. Why?? thats sooo high school. Is he in congress or running for homecoming king?? Ive been on the business-end of many thrashings on this site. Ive never asked to be deleted.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-28T22:08:18-06:00

ID

76179

Comment

Go JSU Tigers, Kaze iam with you

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-02-28T22:08:34-06:00

ID

76180

Comment

Let's move forward with bringing change - positive change - to our city. There is a very bright future for our city if we stay focused and fight for those things that are important. The more we attack each other, the greater our probability of failure. There is power in unity, so let's unite and forge ahead with determination. Thank you Kaze and Donna for bringing this debate back to the issues and away from the personal attacks.

Author

sross

Date

2008-02-28T22:58:38-06:00

ID

76181

Comment

sross, couldn't agree more. In the immortal words of Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On," we're all sensitive people with so much love to give. Wait, that was "Let's Get It On." Oh, well. Same general gist, at any rate.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-28T23:29:02-06:00

ID

76182

Comment

You're welcome, sross. And thank you for speaking up about it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T00:10:18-06:00

ID

76183

Comment

I second sross. Insults are not debate... They are the product of a weak ego.... (Damn the 300 seconds...)

Author

gipper

Date

2008-02-29T00:48:24-06:00

ID

76184

Comment

I wonder--and this may sound crazy, but nobody else has said it--if SB 2991 and 2896 played some role in the decision not to put the museum in downtown Jackson. If the sense was that the entire area might be turned into a police state any day now, I can see how that might be considered a less than ideal place to pump $55M in state funds, especially for a civil rights museum. Now that both bills are dead, the situation has of course changed--but if I were someone from out of town looking for things that made downtown Jackson look like an unappealing venue for a project of this kind, SB 2991 would be at the top of my list. Okay, now I really am backing out of this thread.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-29T00:54:20-06:00

ID

76185

Comment

That is possible, although I'm not sure those bills were public enough to have gone into this mix. I rather suspect that the mayor is a major turnoff for an outside group like this. Even his behavior at the press conference was embarrassing. They may be looking at Tougaloo as a shield from dealing with him much. It's still not good decision, though. And I absolutely have no problem whatsoever philosophically with a civil rights museum being a catalyst for economic development (and, thus, empowerment) in a majority-black city that has suffered so mightily from white supremacy and white flight. I'm with Carlton Brown on that. In fact, there seems to be something very right about that. I think of Bob Moses and the way he kept "living" the movement through public schools, math, economic empowerment and engagement with youth—unlike some other veterans who preach at young people from on high about not caring enough about what they went through. I had a bigger philosophical issue with, say, the lynching exhibit benefiting the white collector of all that (including through his book), although I helped it come to JSU as an educational tool.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T01:04:19-06:00

ID

76186

Comment

OK, this thread has been cleaned up with most of the most blatant personal insults deleted. I left substantive complaints of Ray, Wille and others, even if they were still couched a bit in ugliness, as well as the response of Kaze and others to the actual issues raised. Now it should read more like a passionate debate, rather than a back-room cockfight. If anyone sees an insult, even within a larger post, you think should be deleted, please e-mail me directly about it. There will be no further personal insults here or comments about how I moderate the site. They will be deleted without comment. Feel free to e-mail me.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T10:31:59-06:00

ID

76187

Comment

Justjess, please address the specific issues raised in the article.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T11:45:28-06:00

ID

76188

Comment

Excuse me for butting in, being an outsider. There were three related things on the table in Jackson this week under "Urban Renewal" (which 50 years ago was sometimes called "Negro Removal") including the location of the $55 million Civil Rights Center outside of downtown. The proposed "green zone" crime legislation smelled to me, an outsider, like apartheid. A very white-ish center city getting an invisible wall of protection from the majority black population, through a non-local law enforcement presence and draconian sentencing. Next step. The proposed "quick take" enhancement to eminent domain law, which appeared to be specifically aimed at targeting black home owners and gentrifying the majority black neighborhoods around JSU. Interesting word, gen-trified. Similar to gen-ocide in ultimate result but gets the land without the messy cosmetic implications of overt genocide. As an elder person with limited time left, I'm concerned about my dignity and where/whether I can have a dignified ending. I've yet to see the institution, JSU or other, that proposes to commit dig-nicide on me. Jackson - Blue city, of black people, surrounded by a red state. If I'm connecting the dots wrong, clue me in.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-02-29T12:03:36-06:00

ID

76189

Comment

Go ahead and butt in, Will; you're one of us now. The green zone idea smelled of racism the first time I heard the details behind it. It's not coincidental that most of the city's wealthy and white residents live within the proposed zone. The fact that the mainly wealthy, white elite in Jackson (or any other city) should get better protection than other parts of the city is very unfair, at the least. And then to add on the harsher punishment...I'm glad this idea was shot down very quickly. Even if the green zone would've come into fruition, could we guarantee that the harsher punishment would've been applied equally? For instance, would a white criminal get the same sentence a black criminal would get for committing the same crime in the zone? What if the crime victim was black? Would his or her assailant--regardless of race--get the same justice as their white counterparts? As far as JSU's quick take is concerned, it's ironic that an historically black college would want to take land without compensation first from surrounding black residents, though I think they would've done the same thing if there were white residents. While I support JSU's efforts to expand and revitalize the areas around it, their actions set a dangerous precedence for government to come in and take whatever they see fit to take without compensation. It may not be racist in nature, but whenever gentrification happens, it does affect the people who have already been living in those areas targeted for rebuilding, which is often minority residents. Gentrification, to an extent, is necessary since we can't allow cities to deteriorate to the point of no return, but it shouldn't come at the extent of pushing out people who were already there and not allow them the opportunity to be a part of the revitalization.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-02-29T13:14:23-06:00

ID

76190

Comment

I think the JSU "quick-take" bill is extremely interesting and merits much more discussion. In essence, a historically black university wanted to use eminent domain to acquire land in a historically black neighborhood. All of a sudden, the specter of white gentrification is gone; therefore, the usual suspects did not get on this forum and rail against it. If Millsaps wanted quick take powers (and I realize the public/private distinction here between 'saps and JSU) to acquire land to its west, Ms. Ladd et al. would never sleep because of all the worrying about gentrification. In the JSU example, however, not a peep...

Author

QB

Date

2008-02-29T14:43:34-06:00

ID

76191

Comment

Not correct, Harry. While it may not have gotten the outrage like the SafeCity plan did, we weren't thrilled about it. And while I can't speak for Donna, if I go by her track record, I think she would've spoken out against any entity that tried to forcibly take people's properties, especially if they're trying to do so without compensation upfront.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-02-29T15:18:45-06:00

ID

76192

Comment

I have a take on JSU's actions, which is to understand the main function of any organization is to perpetuate the organization. And, basic empire building. I can't say it's racist, looks like a black on black mugging. All humans have a certain dilemma. We're in a physical body and need a place to be, and store our stuff for 80 years or so. Gentrification pulls the rug out from under people and threatens their existence. The above urban renewal plans, they're wanting the same social and political results that Katrina got for New Orleans.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-02-29T15:29:36-06:00

ID

76193

Comment

Indeed, on the contrary. Im extremely pleased with the fervor that has been raised recently by folks in this town. Once Again, I have confidence in the power of the people and their voice railing against things they deem wrong. In both instances I can honestly say JFP was on top of it. Kudos to the gentleman who handed me a copy of the SafeCity bill. It immediately raised some flags with me, and I see, may others but the public sentiment was such that the bill was subsequently killed. An instance where the people, feeling as if they had no input on a bill of this type, voicing its displeasure. I too had initial concerns on the message it was sending. so much so that I started asking questions and showing it around.. Thus stirring up some other folks. Even met with Mark McCreary at SafeCity who pledged to do better about getting community and police input next time something like this comes across. And yes Harry the outrage over the Quick Take Bill was just as huge. I had the opportunity to be in an alumnit email loop that circulated at the end of last week concerning this bill. and these kudos must go to Dr. Gene Young of JSU for letting the JSU family know that our university was trying to become a robber baron. Those voices spoke loudly and got the attention of many in JSU's administration. So much so that some key alumni started getting (ahem) calls from certain folks. Ive wondered aloud for a while whether or not our esteemed Prez is a man with a vision or or a hired gun sent to assasinate JSU's reputation with some of the decisions hes made. I want new buldings and larger enrollment and the like but I dont want to put an actual human being in the street for it. Lets get some logistics handle first. speak to your JSU family... As you see Mason took out a full page ad in the CL trying to explain his side.. In both those cases the PEOPLE spoke loudly. Restoring some of my faith. Just as folks are speaking loudly on this civil rights museum issue. We cant let folks make decisions and set policy without our input..Its just wrong;... And as you see the CL REFUSES to accurately report the goings on with the museum committee..so obviously itll have to come from the PEOPLE!!!!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-29T15:42:16-06:00

ID

76194

Comment

John Mayer wrote a beautiful song on the issue of young people and their quest for change. It probably speaks to the present situation more than the other song alluded to. It's called "Waiting On the World to Change. Y'all should buy it and sing. You can't listen to it and not sang along. "Me and all my friends, we're all misunderstood. They say we stand for nothing, and there is no way we ever could. Now we're seeing everything that's going wrong with the world and those who lead it. We just feel like we don't have the means to rise above and beat it. So we keep waiting. Waiting on the world to change. We keep waiting. Waiting on the world to change. It's hard to beat the system, when we're standing at a distance. So we keep waiting. Waiting on the world to change. Now if we had the power, to bring our neighbors home from war. They wouldn't have missed a Christmas, no more ribbons on my door. And when you trust your television, what you get is what you got. Cause when they own the information, they can bend it all they want. It's not that we don't care, we just know the fight ain't fair. So we keep on waiting. Waiting for the world to change. One day our generation is gonna rule the population. So we keep waiting. Waiting on the world to change. No we keep waiting. Waiting on the world to change.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-29T15:55:09-06:00

ID

76195

Comment

In the JSU example, however, not a peep... Bullshit. Not to mention Adam's news story. There there's Darren's editorial cartoon on JSU. And the e-mail I sent to the Jackson Progressive list about the displacement concerns of the quick-take plan ... FatHarry, please don't assume on my behalf. As I said to someone else recently, that makes an ass out of you and you. I do wish that the people who are getting off on trying to emasculate Kaze for no particularly good reason right now (other than being local to Tougaloo) would spend a bit of time on this issue, though, as well. It's outrageous to see JSU try to pull this the way they're doing it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T16:09:48-06:00

ID

76196

Comment

Well, fortunately, there are plenty of younger people now who are willing to do more than talk or wait. Cheers to Kaze for stepping up and taking action, and for speaking out regardless of how much he's attacked. He's motivating a lot of people.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T16:13:08-06:00

ID

76197

Comment

..And mind you at that same forum in which I was speaking to JSU students, the majority of them had NO IDEA of the existence of the Quick Take Bill. Hadnt heard of it. Didnt know about it..Some didnt care. Spoke to the SGA Prez at eh Museum Press Conference and even HE had just gotten wind of it..Speaks to how quickly and covertly the administration was trying to push this through. It was disappointing. It should have been those students who raised the fuss. but when your own school looksto keep ya ignorant..what can ya do..I choseto inform them..and a gang of them left that forum fired up..abouth the bill, cointelpro, the citizens council..knowledge is so exhillarating ..and Donna. No emasculating here. Im a mans man..my canteloupes swing low. lol. Even as I have been thrashed, trashed, and trampled several times on this site debating hiphop issues. I stood my ground and never left. thats the true "test of a man". Ray knows about that :-) All this does is let me know whose REALLY for change and who is gonna need to be dragged kicking and screaming into this new movement.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-29T16:41:32-06:00

ID

76198

Comment

Kaze wrote: Thus stirring up some other folks. Even met with Mark McCreary at SafeCity who pledged to do better about getting community and police input next time something like this comes across. I'll tell you what Kaze. McCreery opened a can of worms he'll regret EVER opening. No one elected Safe City to reconfigure Jackson on our behalf. I'm afraid that doing better is a wholly insufficient response for introducing such a divisive and offensive bill of racist legislation. Based on the numerous conversations I have had in the past week about SB 2991 I believe that what Mr. McCreery will find as the by-product of his failure in leadership is that he awoke many white conservatives in Jackson to the nefarious, clandestine and counterproductive activities of Safe City. Safe City as an organization, and Mr. McCreery as a leader, has done nothing to convince Jackson that the group is not racist. WE'RE NOT GOING BACK THERE MCCREERY. So you can cut him some slack Kaze but it is only you, personally, who is doing so.

Author

GeoRoss

Date

2008-02-29T16:56:00-06:00

ID

76199

Comment

I never argued the musuem should be at Tougaloo in this piece at any point so none of my comments go to any loyalty to Tougaloo? Where is the commentary from me to show that in this piece? Who are these people who continue to conjure up Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, and when were the two used in conjunction with the Civil Rights Museum's location here, or for any resistance to change in Mississippi at all. How has either held back Mississippi, and again why use then instead of Lott and other vocal locals?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-29T17:05:48-06:00

ID

76200

Comment

Kaze, do you think I'm buying any of that stuff yall are wasting? Haven't I proved I'm not dumb already. Y'all aren't scoring any points with me on this. Why did you cavalierly and callously throw in Al and Jessie into this piece if not for the obvious reasons I stated earlier?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-02-29T17:16:57-06:00

ID

76201

Comment

willdufauve writes: "The above urban renewal plans, they're wanting the same social and political results that Katrina got for New Orleans." Very well said...

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-02-29T17:40:40-06:00

ID

76202

Comment

I know, Kaze. My moderation isn't about you; it's about the integrity of the forum. If I allow people to treat you that way, many other people (including women and younger readers) won't post because they think they'll be attacked in the same way. It's about the integrity of the forums. Your mascilinity is just fine. ;-) Now, re: Jessie and Al, if y'all want to have a discussion about them, please go start your own forum about them. This one stays on the civil rights museum. The way it's gone so far means I'm going to have to enforce it strictly.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T17:50:59-06:00

ID

76203

Comment

Please dont mistake my comments Geo..That bill at first glance WAS racist as hell. Ask the first folks I showed it to. I was heated. So much so that I went to the source and asked to meet face to face. Which folks in this town sometimes fail to do...simply talk. See..I go to the source when I see something amiss. Im cutting him slack based on his agreeing to be more open..And if he isnt then Im back at him again.. He got spanked this round..So we must watch and rise up again..if and when it happens again. We could do the same thing with the Tougaloo folks on that committe if they could stop ducking long enough to sit across the table and talk..its just they probably dont feel they need to...And Ray you got my email addy..Hit me. weve been down this Jesse/Al road. Love em to death..Its just time for em to let us cut in...

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-29T18:08:23-06:00

ID

76204

Comment

On the SafeCity topic, thanks again for alerting us so quickly to the existence of that bill, Kaze. Way to have your ear to the ground and fight the power.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T18:16:23-06:00

ID

76205

Comment

I found the column to be quite eloquent.

Author

ATLExile

Date

2008-02-29T18:46:49-06:00

ID

76206

Comment

Me, too. One of his best.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-02-29T19:08:30-06:00

ID

76207

Comment

Kaze wrote: Please dont mistake my comments Geo..That bill at first glance WAS racist as hell. That might be the source of my disconnect Kaze. Because while your "first glance" is one where the first bill "WAS racist as hell" my first, second and and all subsequent readings have been ones where the bill(s) are "racist as hell" and for which I've concluded there simply is no excuse. I'm not of the belief, here in 2008, that accidental racism is excusable though, despite all well meaning intentions, it does likely exist. I will also add that prior to 2991 I've been ignorant and blind to what Safe City was actually doing in my Jackson. Full disclosure: my NE Jackson household has never contributed one cent to Safe City. Not once. Yet, I am also completely of the belief, even in the event of "accidental" racism -- which is what I'm interpreting from your posted words McCreery has conceeded and you have accepted -- that such racism, no matter how strenuously the offender extends mea culpas, should never be tolerated by anyone in a position of authority or power, public or private. McCreery needs to resign or be removed by the Safe City Board of Directors. You may find that harsh and you may feel otherwise. But in response I'd like to ask you, if such an egregious bill of undefendable racist legislation, "first glance" or otherwise, is insufficient in your 'new guard' eyes to warrant McCreery's resignation/removal in 2008, then under what circumstances, and in what year, would you feel such action would be appropriate? 2991 was no accident Kaze. No accident, not innocent, not some excusable and unfortunate lapse in leadership or judgment. If you feel that isn't the case then let me, respectfully, in response state that you simply do not yet possess a critical mass of understanding as to the parameters, processes, machinations and lead times of our legislative process. If this 48 year-old white NEJammer male easily reaches the conclusion, and you do not, that McCreery -- at the minimum -- should resign or be removed then I believe that the chasm you're looking to bridge here in Jackson is much wider than you -- though not I -- previously measured.

Author

GeoRoss

Date

2008-02-29T21:39:49-06:00

ID

76208

Comment

Geo, you are indeed passionate about this issue. Good. But again It was I who started alerting folks about the bill. We're on the same page there..Now dont go into an uproar because I didnt call for his head..My goal was to raise awareness and get it killed. That happened. Ultimately everyone I know wants to be safe. So we all want something that gives equal value to everyones life. Black white rich or poor. And..we want something that we all have had a chance to give input to. If safecity is truly a racist organization then it wont matter who leads it right?? But as long as we continue to shine light on improprieties then we'll kill everthing they suggest..As I said we're on the same page. So I dont know what else to add. With that said. Let me say this so I can nip this in the bud. Apparently my passion to act. and my call for a new movement has rubbed some of you the wrong way. Judging by even your comments Geo youre leary of someone trying to organize and mobilize the masses. Keeping an ear to the street and doing instead of talking. I dunno. But I can say Kaze is going handle any and all new instances as my spirit and the people see fit to handle it. That means Im not going to react how GEO or anyone else feels I should react. The chasm IS wide and I dont aim to close it alone and I dont aim to close like you may want me to close it. However, we can disagree on methodology all day as long as we agree on what is right in the end.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-02-29T23:08:18-06:00

ID

76209

Comment

I dunno. You make some massive assumptions Kaze so I would have to agree that you don't know. But again It was I who started alerting folks about the bill. You were the single solitary person who started the alert citywide? I think not. In fact, I think you noted that it was someone else who put that bill in your hand. Now dont go into an uproar because I didnt call for his head. Please don't twist my words. I'm not in an uproar that you failed to do so. Don't flatter yourself. I'm only expressing an opinion different than your own and communicating that you aren't the definitive opinion regarding the matter. Apparently my passion to act. and my call for a new movement has rubbed some of you the wrong way. No, I said nothing the effect. That is the axe you rush forward to grind in response to any opinions that differ from your own. Furthermore you have no insight whatsoever as to actions I may have taken regarding the legislation. You simply don't know what you don't know nor do I feel the need to offer up the specifics of my own actions in order to satisfy your measurement criteria. Your default assumption is that Kaze is the only person taking action. I find such one-upmanship counterproductive. However, we can disagree on methodology all day as long as we agree on what is right in the end. Yes, and no. We can disagree on methodology but there still remains proof checkpoints along the way. I believe McCreery's "head", as you characterize it, is one such proof. I'll acknowledge that you, personally, don't believe that is necessary. If you speak for some group or organization beyond Kaze, please let me know.

Author

GeoRoss

Date

2008-02-29T23:37:57-06:00

ID

76210

Comment

Kaze wrote: So much so that I went to the source and asked to meet face to face. Which folks in this town sometimes fail to do...simply talk. See..I go to the source when I see something amiss. Im cutting him slack based on his agreeing to be more open. Kaze, please accept that I'm not purposefully trying to channel Ray -- though I am quite sympathetic to what I perceive to be his frustration that the friendly counsel he extends, drawn from a more expansive base of experience (in my opinion), is somehow being lost in translation -- but your posted words that I've highlighted above give considerable pause. While I am certainly appreciative that you "went to the source" the fact that others did not, or decided not to do so, or deemed that an alternative course of action would be the most effective response to 2991 in no way places their actions, or inactions, in an inferior or "less than" authoritative position relative to your own. And while I would agree with you, in concept, that Jacksonians fail to "simply talk" I'm unable to agree with what I interpret from your posted words to be an unspoken and implicit assumption that somehow going "to the source" provides you with the most informed basis of knowledge and understanding from which to make the decision, or reach the conclusion, that McCreery should be cut some slack. In other words, I do not accept that your having spoken with McCreery directly, regarding this specific legislation, means anything to anyone other than yourself nor that his promise to you to be "more open" is anything beyond a personal promise to be more so. Once 2991 was introduced and placed into the legislative queue McCreery was only one of many people to contact up and down the totem and nowhere near being the "only" base to touch. Your reaching out to him is admirable and exemplary though your post-conversation decision to cut him slack is merely your own. My decision to pursue a different course of direct action in order to defeat 2991 and, in turn, reach a conclusion calling for McCreery's resignation/removal (plus a re-evaluation of Safe City vis-a-vis Jackson) is, in turn, also my own but equally as valid as the course you followed.

Author

GeoRoss

Date

2008-02-29T23:46:37-06:00

ID

76211

Comment

Agreed. Geo. 'nuff said.. The course of action I took worked for me. The conclusions I made were for me and in no way were those implications that no one else was working to kill the bill. If it was in anyway implied or taken that I am the sole person in this state actively fighting the good fight now or in the near past. accept my apology. As I said we're on the same page. .

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-01T00:37:25-06:00

ID

76212

Comment

In conclusion I will acknowledge that there are parts of the legislative process that escape me. some dont. there are parts of the political process that escape me. some dont. As I wrote in my first column of the new year..a LOT escapes me.. A LOT doesnt..Dont recall saying I knew all or knew everyone. As I said..you do you and Ill do me..Those that follow me cool. Those that like your methods will follow you. But you wont deter me from speaking out or acting in the method I do. Its working for me and some others. Those with advice and counsel..I will gladly listen to..as long as they come at me correctly. Period. The bill is dead. we won this round. We took different paths to the same street..ok?

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-01T00:59:32-06:00

ID

76213

Comment

(Kaze obviously knows his stuff, and the fact that several people have popped in claiming that they don't think he does is a little insulting. He and I don't agree on everything, but he knows his shit.) While I personally think McCreery needs to resign, Geo, SB 2991 reflects an institutional problem--and a pretty severe case of mission creep. McCreery, in other words, is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that SafeCity has some pretty deep-seated institutional problems that need to be resolved transparently and with a recommitment to a more specific mission statement. Read SafeCity's mission statement and you see something that should preclude SB 2991. A commitment to citywide law enforcement ("SAFECITY has but one primary purpose - to make MetroJackson a safe place to live for each and every citizen regardless of where they live, what they do, or who they are ... [w]e will not become embroiled in any one entity to the detriment of the entire system"), when this bill gave special privileges to a development zone. Personal agendas are not supposed to be a part of SafeCity's organization, so McCreery's views should have been irrelevant. SafeCity is supposed to be the "best ally" of anti-crime policymakers, regardless of political party; SB 2991 was hard-right legislation. Worst of all, SafeCity is supposed to be "truly grassroots and reflective of the needs and concerns of common, everyday people"--when this was a piece of legislation rammed down the throat Jacksonians who didn't even know it was being proposed, and sponsored by a legislator all the way in Lamar County. So even folks who support SB 2991, and I don't know of any, would have to admit that it contradicts almost every single stated objective of SafeCity's mission. The organization needs to do some serious internal work.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-01T02:06:42-06:00

ID

76214

Comment

(Kaze obviously knows his stuff, and the fact that several people have popped in claiming that they don't think he does is a little insulting. He and I don't agree on everything, but he knows his s***. Yeah, I'm a little over the personal get-Kaze tone of many of these posts, which seems to be about stuff other than about what is posted, including by people I otherwise respect. I will trust the personal tone and animosity will be left at the door in all future posts, and that the posts will be about the issues. Contact Kaze directly with any kinds of communication that is not allowed here. The JFP isn't your forum for fighting personal battles with people. As for 2991, wish we were on that thread, but it is a sure sign that SafeCity needs to remake and remarket itself. But frankly this is what it was in the beginning, and in the MCC days. So no real surprises. It's hard for a group that starts as it did to become something new. We're likely seeing that play out, albeit in the most dramatic, disgusting way.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-01T09:39:23-06:00

ID

76215

Comment

It was written: "If Kaze's commentary here is any reflection of the mindsets and cerebral substance of those under forty, then perhaps Joe Clark was totally right when he said "the problem with young folks is they don't know sh!t."" It seems odd that one would make such a statement supposedly in defense of Jesse when Jesse and many of the other people who made the Civil rights movement roll on the local level were teenagers and people in their early twenties. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing even in the mind of someone who considers himself or herself an elder. I agree with Kaze that younger people --- certainly younger than me --- need to be involved and it is so great to see so many young people so highly motivated in the political process in recent months. A thoughtful read of "Local People" which ray Carter said he has on his book shelf but seems not to have read would educate one to the fact that often during the Civil rights movement the parents were drawn into the movement after their teenage children began to protest and get kicked out of school and arrested. Sometimes wisdom comes from the young. The problem with some older people is that they are just close-minded reactionaries who discourage the progressivism of younger people. The greatest argument for having the museum centrally located is so that it will be more accessible to a larger number of local people. And Gil Scott Heron said the "Revolution did not be televised"; he did not say when it would be. Maybe it has been going on ever since that time as people's minds have changed to the point that may be ready to accept a new, younger generation of leadership that is unbound by the assumptions embedded in the past.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-03-01T13:09:46-06:00

ID

76216

Comment

"Insanity is commonly defined as doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result." If this is true, does that apply to the comment about Jessie and Al too? Since the tenet of this column is about changing the way we do business, shouldn't that tired comment be included as inasnaity as well. The fact that the author got latent supporters which was expected sooner or later doesn't change the situation any in my eyes. Of Course, I know we don't all see things the same. I speak for only me while considering those others I know share my concern. Doesn't real and sustaining change have to include an honest and mutual acknowledgement of past wrongs from all communities, according to the deeds of each community, and some moral responsibility or obligation by all to not make the same errors over and over again? Or will it be business as usual with one side dominating yet expecting the same old past mantra or result that the other side has to cave in because it has no choice. A choice exist now. I has for a long time. I apologize if I incorrectly attacked Kamikae. What better thing to do when you have erred than to apologize and heed correction. Kaze, you didn't make the quip by private email so why do I need to question it privately. What we know is better demonstrated or determined by what we do and say - our deeds, in other words, not by what we or others say we know, else the facts may prove otherwise. I'm finished with this matter. I move on. Curse me, attack me, do whatever. I don't care. I do it all in love! I'm out.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-01T13:29:04-06:00

ID

76217

Comment

gil said: "The revolution will not be televised". The key word is "will". And I will paraphrase Gil to say..."because (young) people will be in the streets...searching for a brighter day"...for the inner cities and neglected areas all over this country.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-03-01T13:33:19-06:00

ID

76218

Comment

I know this history Whit and you can't prove I don't. The book is sitting right on the shelf and I read it. And I can show you probably over a thousand more sitting on the bookshelf at my house. I know the roles young folks played in Civil Rights movement and other movements. When have I ever said young folks shouldn't be at the vanguard or involved in ANY movement. The problem I have with the comment about Jessie and Al is that the comment is a standing sermon of hate made by certain kinds of people who refuses to gives Jessie and Al any credit at all for exposing the roaches that history has shown us will boldly take over our house and community when the lights go out. Jessie and Al have turned the lights on in houses and communities numerous times and were 100% correct when they did it in the overwhelming majority of the cases. Yes, they're aggravating and people get tired of seeing them, but this doesn't take away their production or value to us, if you consider yourself one of us. What is a business man without emotion, heart, soul or with only a financial gain emotion, heart and soul? Bob Johnson, Wal-Mart, 50 cents and the likes, to name a few. If I'm not already deleted from the blog, let me say I enjoyed the discourse, yearning and learning. Much love!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-01T14:05:16-06:00

ID

76219

Comment

Ray, for whatever it's worth, everything you've said in this thread has made sense to me except the personal criticisms of Kaze, which didn't seem at all fair. Yeah, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have gotten the shaft over the years. And you know and I know that if MLK had survived, people would be talking about him in the same way. Ditto Medgar Evers. White America (and, by extension, the political mainstream) likes its civil rights activists dead, because they're quieter that way. But young activists aren't getting the credit they deserve, either, and if the movement is going to survive it can't always be about people over 50. Young faces are needed, too, and we can hope that when those young faces have aged a little bit, the brains they're connected to will still care as much about the movement as Jesse and Al do.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-01T14:29:17-06:00

ID

76220

Comment

Tom I'm not sure if I can still post, but let me say I'm not against young people doing anything they want to do, even if it's bad, as long as they stay away from me. I used to be one of them. My only objection to this column was that unnecessary incendiary comment that didn't advance the cause, column or story. That comment was placed there for the unilateral and nefarious purpose of improperly chiding one side and winking or tooting to the other. If I didn't admire you Tom, I wouldn't have responded further on the matter. This really is my last comment on it, if it goes thru.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-03T09:00:46-06:00

ID

76221

Comment

My only comment about Jackson and Sharpton is that, yes, they have "gotten the shaft" over the years. They have also given it. I admire them both in many ways—and the two are probably the best living speakers in America; I've been fortunate enough to hear them both in person—but they are not above criticism, and I see nothing wrong with a younger African American columnist using them to make a point. Whether or not I agree with him on it, this point here is logical, and the responses to it by some prove the point. That is, there are some leaders who believe they are above reproach regardless of what they do. That applies on a national level, and it apparently applies here in Jackson with the leadership of the location committee and civil rights museum commission. Thus: It is fine to disagree with that point in a respectful way. But the condescension andd personal insults that rained down on Kaze because he dared to criticize sacred cows was way out of line and against the rules of this site. No one has been suspended for it, but I trust we will not see any more of that kind of behavior here. If you want to engage in such "dialogue," take it offline, or at least off this site.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T09:33:43-06:00

ID

76222

Comment

I believe Tom Head remarked earlier that Tougaloo would be the place to have the museum since 'the area could use the help', or something to that effect. Which particular area of this state 'needs help' should be the last consideration. A museum of this nature serves two purposes; To glorify, enshrine, promote and record events of significance and celebrate in the knowledge....and to provide a place where education of future generations can benefit, celebrate in the knowledge and learn from it. The last reason to locate something in a particular city or zone is because the area needs developing. Reminds one of Eric Stringfellow's several columns four years when a certain state agency was moving it's headquarters from the middle of a crime infested zone of delapidation. Stringfellow opined that a state agency has an obligation to remain in the inner city, regardless of employee safety, for the sake of the community and the tax base. Wrong.

Author

Catfish

Date

2008-03-03T09:45:38-06:00

ID

76223

Comment

Donna, I think that just about voices all of my sentiments. Im disappointed that Ray decided to take that road but his reaction is exactly the monolithic type of thinking that stymies progress. Our generation is in the enviable position of not havng any sacred cows. No one is above reproach. If youve taken it upon yourself to be the uncrowned ''voice of black folk'' then you have to take the criticism. Im able to do what I do because of Jesse and Al. I dream of being able to captivate an audience like they do. They put in the work. Much respect. I hope you read the disclaimer Ray because youre soooo above the ''whistlin and tootin'' comments. To clarify..my comments were not a condemnation of them but an example used to make a point. You said yourself Ray that folks are annoyed at times by them. I nor anyone else crowned them voice of the Black people. Theyve lost a little of their effectiveness akin to an aging receiver losing a step or two. Sure Jerry Rice was the greatest receiver ever and we hated to see him go..but..Hed lost a step, lost some inches on his vertical, and couldnt seperate from younger more athletic corners..He's still the greatest..his time was simply past. My point in the column....Such is the case with Jesse and Al..and more locally the folks chosen for that museum committee. We're tired of them choosing the same out of touch, safe black folks in Jackson for these commissions and committees..We keep choosing the same folks getting the same results...i.e. this boondoggle with the museum. The same way Black folks in America keep calling up Jesse and Al to come save em. That has given them and the folks here a sense of false entitlement that my generation will take years to erase. It wasnt an attack on THEM Ray..It was an attack on an old tired mindset that continues to look to them when we have fresh new warriors ready to lead Jackson and this nation..We love em Ray..but to them and those here...Get a rest..Youve earned it. We got next!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-03T11:04:10-06:00

ID

76224

Comment

I personally know the legacies, histories and reputations of Reuben Anderson, Beverly Hogan, Leroy Walker, Ed Blackman, Willie Bailey and any other Tougaloo person on that committee. Neither is anything like the quip used to describe them. Don't take my words for it though since I'm supposed to be aloof, crazy and rebellious to a fault. I got my problems like all of us. Smile. Research and examine the legacies, histories and reputations for yourself. The truth is greater than all of us!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-03T11:25:56-06:00

ID

76225

Comment

Ray, why can't people respect those "legacies, histories and reputations" and still criticize this decision -- and the decision by someone (presumably not those people) not to put younger people on the committee or make this thing more transparent? I consider people you mention heroes of Mississippi and admire them greatly, but that doesn't mean I think this is a good decision for the city, the state or the museum. Why can we not focus on that issue? It sounds to me like the Tougaloo folks are being used to divide Jacksonians and isolate the museum, anyway. And I really, really hate to see that happen.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T11:29:51-06:00

ID

76226

Comment

I'm not opposed to young people being placed on the committee. I don't know how all those Tougaloo people got on there in the forst place. I know they all love Tougaloo and Mississippi because they chose to come back here to stay. The other people on the panel said the Tougaloo people didn't try to influence them. If this is the case, how much criticism and blame, if any, do they deserve. None of those people are above criticism. No one is above criticism as far as I'm concerned. Kaze did a decent job of criticizing the choice or location, but he got carried away and stepped beyond the facts, reason and logic. Although he won't admit it publicly I hope he will privately and unilaterally and be more cautious in the future.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-03T11:44:35-06:00

ID

76227

Comment

Perhaps an apology for the personal insults and overreaction to him would be in order, Ray? Would set a good example for others, as you have done many times. As far as his stepping beyond "facts, reason and logic," I'm still not seeing it. This looks like a plain ole garden-variety disagreement that turned personal.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T11:47:41-06:00

ID

76228

Comment

Yeah ray iam surprised, I always looked up to you as level headed, but i see everybody is human.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-03T11:53:00-06:00

ID

76229

Comment

I am level-headed New Jack. Haven't you noticed that I become calmer and more thoughtful and calculating as the fight or contest grows. I might say something nutty when joking but I know when to turn on the intellect. As I said earlier on Saturday, if, and I mean only if, I was wrong; then I apologize for attacking kamikaze. Yes, it's arguable that I went too far in criticizing him. If you likewise mean that I could have viewed the matter differently thereby giving the author the benefit of all doubts, I could have done that too. However, that standard and often-used quip was misplaced, irrelevant to the task before us and meant to blind and harm, in my view. That's why I wouldn't ignore it. If y'all want me to apologize just for the sake of hearing it, I'll pass on that except to say we're not all monolithic. I can't think of anything else to say except y'll have convinced me the museum should be at or near Tougaloo. I'll see y'all from across the road now. I can live without any animosity toward anyone no matter where the museum evntually winds up.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-03T12:09:30-06:00

ID

76230

Comment

Sometimes you people scare me. It's so typical. Liberals and progressives are their ow worst enemy. Liberals and progressives like to form a circle around an issue, take aim and shoot each other to death. The most extreme right wing and bigots get in line, get their talking points together, stay on the same page, and play to win. Liberals and progressives can value diversity, not just of race etc., but of opinion. We all have to learn to accept other points of view without giving up our own, and not trashing each other, or defaulting to the worst elements out there who would do us in.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-03-03T12:27:11-06:00

ID

76231

Comment

I think you all have lost focus. They are going to build a Civil Rights Museum, isn't that what really matters? Just my 2 cents.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-03T12:31:59-06:00

ID

76232

Comment

willdufauve, you are a very sage person.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-03T12:33:41-06:00

ID

76233

Comment

Needless personal conflict between good people, who are known to be people of good will, wastes a lot of energy. Time is short. It goes by, "snap" just like snapping your fingers, and your on the other end looking back at what? and saying why did I waste my little time on this and that.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-03-03T12:37:07-06:00

ID

76234

Comment

I'm disappointed that I missed all of the fireworks that got deleted.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-03-03T12:45:34-06:00

ID

76235

Comment

Well, I guess I can say that this debate has convinced me that Im definitely on the right path and that our generation must seize the reigns of leadership unbound by a shackling practice of idolotry. Remebering and respecting the past but not being bound by it to move forward. Ive learned that my words were not misplaced but dead on as the threat of irrelevance has caused some of our wise elders to show their true feelings. You condemn the young as apathetic and urge them to lead but secretly dont wish to pass the torch. It was probably better for you when our generation wasnt acting because it gave you fodder for criticsm..Now youve run out of things to say. I realize that I will continue to sit across from these icons local and national and look them right in their eyes. demanding the same respect they demand. Just as relevant and just as influential as they are. Im not at the table to worship you or act in awe of you. Im at the table to work with you and give needed input on how we want OUR CITY to move forward. Your weight, you opinion, is no greater than mine or the people's. Im more convinced than ever that it needs to be downtown. And again..the rational thinkng amongst us who truly want to see Jackson succeed will agree.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-03T12:45:41-06:00

ID

76236

Comment

L.W., Thank you, but I'm not a sage person. I'm a made mistakes and have to account for them person. I have time to do only one more project. We, my wife and I, are coming to Jackson soon to do a conceptual art project that's never been done before, by anyone, any where, and that focuses on overlooked aspects of beauty and worth in black culture. It's point of view, the message, is revolutionary. Of all the African diaspora, we're drawn to do this in Jackson Mississippi, sight unseen, for reasons we can barely explain. So, we wonder what will happen there if even the best people lose sight of the prize through their bickering. We have to keep our eyes on the prize.

Author

willdufauve

Date

2008-03-03T12:49:38-06:00

ID

76237

Comment

Willdu..no truer words have been spoken...We're so passionate about getting our point across that we sometimes forget that we're basically on the same page. We've gott learn to harness that to work for us..Thats why Obama has energized us!! But I can say..even though the re''pubes'' are crazy they know how to circle th wagons when its time and get organized.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-03T12:56:27-06:00

ID

76238

Comment

What is - is. What shall be - shall be. As the young people plow, cultivate and make their place in society they won't have to worry about my being in the way. I usually just watch and occasionally make a suggestion. Old folks do have wisdom that young folks don't have. You can't deny this as we have gone down many of the roads before. "The young become the old and mysteries do unfold." These are not just mere words. Good luck and God bless y'all. When y'all make good points, progress and achieve successes, don't be surprised to see me smiling or clapping for you, although I stand at a distance. Personally, I'm at the crossroads, I refuse to line up with the really old folks because I'm not really old yet and my wings are still real smooth; and I have far too much sense to line up with the young folks. They say foolish energy and too much exertion against the grain will untimely take an old man out everytime.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-03T13:03:09-06:00

ID

76239

Comment

Remebering and respecting the past but not being bound by it to move forward. Kaze No Doubt! Not to change subjects; but, this is exactly why Obama is the better choice over Hillary. Hillary is bound to a Vietnam era past that has no place in today's 21st Century world upon us today!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-03T13:51:29-06:00

ID

76240

Comment

Can someone or anyone show me which Al and Jessie ways played a role in naming Tougaloo the leading location for the museum? Then, likewise, show me how those said ways or modes of conduct of Sharpton and Jackson played out specifically in influencing each member specifically or generally on the committee as to where the museum is to located? Were Jessie or Al mentioned by any of the Tougaloo or other people on the committee as a future consultant or in any regards? Did Jessie or Al make any threat to come here and march? Do Jessie and Al even know about the situation of the museum at all. Are the white members of that committe disciples of Jessie and Al, too? If so, how does the author know this? Can someone point out to me who conjured up Jessie or Al other than the author of the column? Has the author talked to any of the people on the committee? Who is the "we" the author refers as he preludes to the quip? I do desire to do the right thing. I'm not too big to apologize if it's merited. Like Donna said I have done it before without hesitation or any force or outside compulsion. My apparent but unappreciated blind spot is preventing me from seeing the Jessie and Al influence in this matter! Upon learning better I will certainly do better. That's the kind of "we" I am!

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-03T14:19:08-06:00

ID

76241

Comment

..okay..to stop us from going in circles...From my 11:04am post ..."To clarify..my comments were not a condemnation of them but an example used to make a point. You said yourself Ray that folks are annoyed at times by them. I nor anyone else crowned them voice of the Black people. Theyve lost a little of their effectiveness akin to an aging receiver losing a step or two. Sure Jerry Rice was the greatest receiver ever and we hated to see him go..but..Hed lost a step, lost some inches on his vertical, and couldnt seperate from younger more athletic corners..He's still the greatest..his time was simply past. My point in the column....Such is the case with Jesse and Al..and more locally the folks chosen for that museum committee. We're tired of them choosing the same out of touch, safe black folks in Jackson for these commissions and committees..We keep choosing the same folks getting the same results...i.e. this boondoggle with the museum. The same way Black folks in America keep calling up Jesse and Al to come save em. That has given them and the folks here a sense of false entitlement that my generation will take years to erase. It wasnt an attack on THEM Ray..It was an attack on an old tired mindset that continues to look to them when we have fresh new warriors ready to lead Jackson and this nation..We love em Ray..but to them and those here...Get a rest..Youve earned it. We got next!".... That pretty much sums it up!! Youre acting as if youre muslim and Ive tried to print an image of Muhammed on bubble gum cards..sheesh...As I said they were used to MAKE A POINT about local politics..they have NOTHING to do with this. But quite frankly I can bring them up whenever I wish..In fact just because youve made such a huge deal out of it..Im going to invoke their name everytime something bad happens with Black folks in Jackson just to be annoying..Cuz THIS is getting annoying.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-03T14:45:34-06:00

ID

76242

Comment

It is getting annoying, and the best way to stop this from going in more circles is to close this thread to more comments. Consider it a museum exhibit. Hopefully, I will not have to do the same to other threads on this topic.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-03T14:54:08-06:00