Jackson Free Press

Kamikaze writes: Tune in today...5pm...As we continue the civil rights museum debate. With myself, Councilman Leslie McLemore, Attorney Matt Allen, and Ben Minniefield. 1180am. Call in with your questions 601 366 1180...

Previous Comments

ID

117504

Comment

Excellent. We'll be listening. Get Kim to record it, and we can also put it online if you want.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T10:32:53-06:00

ID

117505

Comment

Andy Taggart Supports the Musuem being built at Tougaloo, unbelieveably long C-L URL

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-04T11:39:40-06:00

ID

117506

Comment

"Yes we Can" put the Civil Rights Museum at Tougaloo and still locate it centrally in Mississippi with easy access from all areas of the state. Furthermore, those older persons who unfortunately were forced or chose to fight the battle of civil rights can walk a few yard further and visit Tougaloo College, a former slave plantation where master Bodie had a moment of awakening and decided to educate his slaves thereby bringing bringing forth Tougaloo Prepatory School, Tougallo University and eventually Tougaloo College. Others locations will be fine with me as well; however, Andy Taggart makes good sense to me.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T12:28:15-06:00

ID

117507

Comment

My apology for misspelling Tougaloo. It's weird looking words and mispellings are expected except for graduates. Can you imagine the tale of history imparted by the site near Tougaloo College? A young person desirious of learning the cause/case of slavery, Jim Crow and the Civil Rights fight in Mississippi can come to the museum centrally located in Mississippi and towering by itself with lots of parking spaces, and hopefully learn something of the European/North Atlantic/American Slave Trade, see an ex-slave plantation a few yards away, see a college where young minds are being cultivated and crystallized to advance America and racial equality, see where much of the organized efforts to overthrow Jim Crow occurred and visit the civil rights museum too. Wouldn't this be a compelling site or story to behold and told. No other site can boast having these ingredients.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T12:48:05-06:00

ID

117508

Comment

New Jack, I know you're a reasonable man, and I know you have to agree that the legacy and history of Tougaloo College, combined with the fact that it was a former slave plantation, makes a case that few other places can compare with. It's located only yards from Jackson thereby deleting any argument that Jackson will be harmed financially or otherwise. People visiting can leave the museum and go to Northpark Mall or some nearby place and spend money in Jackson or vice versa.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T13:00:31-06:00

ID

117509

Comment

Putting that Museum at Tougaloo will be a shining example of "history meeting the future."

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T13:08:18-06:00

ID

117510

Comment

Ray iam reasonable but iam no fool, its fair for me to ask are you a little biased. And your wrong this Museum will benefit the city of Ridgeland and Madison more than the city of Jackson and Hinds County. Last i heard you live in Ridgeland so it wont be any skin off your nose anyway. Look at the bigger picture Ray, Trustmark Park, Amphitheater they chose to build in Meridian instead of Jackson. Jackson has been sharing and getting robbed at the same time. I want stand by and be open to this big idea that anything that happens in MetroJackson Benefits us all, but Jackson never gets projects in Jackson Proper. I guess we will disagree your proud to say Tougaloo would be the best place, you graduated from there. I attend JSU we had Two students to Die, a far worser thing than sit in by the Tougaloo nine. But do you see me Screaming for JSU. IAM SCREAMING FOR DOWNTOWN. and like i said before if its built on the campus of Tougaloo i wont ever visit, iam sick at these politics and lies and selfishness thats been going on behind the scenes, so you understand why RAY.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-04T13:32:39-06:00

ID

117511

Comment

Thanks for talking to me New Jack. You're my young hereo! I may live in Ridgeland but I spend as much money in Jackson eating, shopping and otherwise as many Jacksonian. I fail to see how the museum will benefit Ridgeland and Madison more at this point than Jackson. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see it yet. Y'all like to compare Jackson State to Tougaloo, something few of us Tougalooans do anymore. We realize we're in the struggle together. I'm sorry y'all lost two students and got your building shot up by racist cops. I'm furthermore sorry that JSU students weren't officially allowed to do what our's did. I don't know that they wanted to anyway. North Carolina Central was a public school too and that fact didn't stop them from making monumental history. My latent decision to pull for the Tougaloo site has nothing to do with pulling for or trying to benefit Ridgeland or Madison. That argument is a red herring. The truth be told, until recent years, neither Jackson, Ridgeland or Madison County wanted to claim Tougaloo College. I wish the City of Tougaloo was a real city so we could claim or attach ourselves to it more formally, and disassociate with all three places since the hidden hate toward us is seemly becoming quite apparent from some Jacksonians. We can handle it though! Anyway, neither you or anyone else can make a real claim that another site brings greater historical facts or significance into the equasion. I objectively and dispassionately argue the matter of being centrally located with history meeting the future is unequalled. Although you personally disagree, the ultimate deciders are likely to agree with us. Dr. McLemeore, a resonable man by most standards, is perhaps letting the Rust rivalry with Tougaloo cloud his judgment. Tell him I said stop the hating. Just kidding. He's a good man in a bad place of mind. It's quite unfortunate that none of you can hear the voices or arguments of Tougaloo graduates. Since it's widely known we adore our little poor school, everyone figures we can't be objective and fair about any deliberation concerning Tougaloo. Where is the proof we can't be so? If you don't visit the museum at Tougaloo, I will make sure that I never attend another game, play or exhibit at Jackson State. You see, many of y'all have allowed nuts to completely cloud your judgment about Tougaloo College and its graduates. There is absolutely no proof of any kind that we have done a single unsavory thing in this matter to get this museum. You don't have to let conjecture, guessing, suppositions or the likes to rule the day. While we likely won't ever have a meeting of the minds on this matter, I understand your position and wish you the best.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T14:09:04-06:00

ID

117512

Comment

Ray, you forgot to mention you went there. I think you're biased. Also, there are plenty of former slave plantations in Mississippi, so the Tougaloo argument there is hogwash.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-03-04T14:22:52-06:00

ID

117513

Comment

New Jack- It's never been said it was going to be built on Tougaloo's campus, but on land Tougaloo owns near I55 and I220.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-04T14:24:18-06:00

ID

117514

Comment

Ironghost did the committee name any other places where the college was a former slave plantation? Are there any other colleges in Mississippi that was a slave plantation? Could be, I don't know. Everybody knows I graduated from Tougaloo. I have told that story more than I have my name. What did you forget to tell ,Iron? Maybe you should consider that as well.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T14:28:07-06:00

ID

117515

Comment

Yeah, Ray your plantation argument is weak - very weak! Glad to see that the Museum of MS History will be built downtown. This will be fun watching the two museums fight over who gets what civil rights exhibits. And, I doubt that after going downtown to see any one of the multiple museums that a person will want to jaunt across town to Tougaloo. It is flat out wrong that this museum should be on land at a private university - no matter what affiliation it has.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T15:01:57-06:00

ID

117516

Comment

What makes it so wrong, Pike? The museum shouldn't have information concerning the fact that Tougaloo was a plantation, where the master had a good-hearted moment and decided to create a school instead. There are many people who will come over to Tougaloo. There are many who won't as well. Also, Pike is it wrong to put a confederate grave yard on a public campus like at ole miss?

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T15:10:25-06:00

ID

117517

Comment

Dude, get out of the far past. We are talking about today. Start a petition to remove the confederate grave yard at Ole Miss, I could care less. Can you tell me where it is on campus because I never saw it. What is with the small logic today Ray? Go after the State flag Ray. Do they even fly it at Tougaloo?

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T15:21:19-06:00

ID

117518

Comment

IG: I knew he graduated from Tougaloo. But I don't believe his preferences stem from graduation. He obviously wants to share the history of the college, and the location would be perfect for a Civil Rights museum. There may be other slave plantations: but how many of them have been transformed into a thriving college campus?

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2008-03-04T15:27:02-06:00

ID

117519

Comment

Typical ole miss crappy answer. I do note the later comment completely killed any effort to answer the forgoing question. Anybody can make any claim but can we have a discussion about it. Never mind conjuring up a reply that speaks to ny question at this point. Your silence is the answer. "Get off the far past." I take it museums don't do any of this! Every Civil Rights Museum I've seen dealt with the far past as well.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T15:28:19-06:00

ID

117520

Comment

With all due respect, Pike; I could tell you where the graveyard is but I don't won't stop you from figuring it out for yourself. Once again, I have read ole miss' history thoroughly.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T15:36:22-06:00

ID

117521

Comment

Good for you Ray, I went to class and studied while I was there. I had little use for the history of the school at the time. Right now, this is about today, and the Civil Rights museum - not Ole Miss. Always trying to divert the issue when you know there is a better answer. That's called slick lawyering! And this ain't a courtroom. Fortunately people like Newjack and I see through your stunts. I am puzzled how you vilify republicans like Haley and Taggart; yet, once they tout your school for a Civil Rights museum it's allgood. In fact you are well stated that you have no place for any republicans like them; yet, when Kaze uses a "Jackson and Sharpton" point to get his point across you hit the roof. That is called a double standard, and proves you are biased in spite of the logical choice of where the museum should go. You'll sell out for a museum. Let it be known! Also, Tougaloo is affiliated with the United Church of Christ, therefore not only is Tougaloo a private school it is a religious school. The public has no business getting involved with the university in this kind of venture.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T15:51:26-06:00

ID

117522

Comment

This church doesn't give Tougaloo any money. That association ended decades ago. I'm accustomed to getting accused of all sorts of things that aren't true, in and out of court. You can't find a post anywhere where I have said anything about Barbour or Taggart on here. I'm more skilled than you know. I studied at school too. I nearly learned how to spell but I spent my spelling time reading ole miss' history. I'll avoid the Sharpton and Jessie remark out of respect for my friends, Donna and Todd. Besides, I'm a lover, not a fighter. I fight only when it's necessary, and I learned how to fight and when. Obviously, Pike, you've never been to Civil Rights or African American Museum. Since you're my favorite ole miss grads, let me thank you for chiming in. I always enjoy my time spent with you and Ironghost.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T16:20:43-06:00

ID

117523

Comment

Ray, I know you're taking this issue very personally, but for the love of God, please stop the personal crapshooting. Everyone else, too. I think it's going to be very sad when I have to close every single civil rights museum thread due to emotional bloodbaths. And I will. Obviously, someone who went to Tougaloo can argue non-emotionally about this. Try it, please. Make points, but. stop. insulting. people. You're not on the high road this time.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T16:25:16-06:00

ID

117524

Comment

I meant anything bad about Barbour or Taggart. I doubt I have ever used Barbour's name on here.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T16:25:31-06:00

ID

117525

Comment

I'll just leave instead. I haven't put any emotional stuff in this thread. I know whether I'm emotional or not. All the best.

Author

Ray Carter

Date

2008-03-04T16:27:07-06:00

ID

117526

Comment

It's quite unfortunate that none of you can hear the voices or arguments of Tougaloo graduate Quickly because I'm on deadline: I just got a call from a Tougaloo grad, whom I respect mightily. I asked him why he supported Tougaloo; it was because no place in Mississippi has a greater civil rights legacy int he state than Tougaloo, he said. I said that was subjective and, without taking anything away from Tougaloo, that perhaps the that part cancels out when you consider all the places that have a strong CR history. So what other criteria should the museum there be based on? He talked more about Tougaloo's role in the movement. I feel like debating this issue with a Tougaloo grad allows no discussion beyond y'all's wonderful role in the Movement (which we all agree with). You make it clear that concern for the economic empowerment of the state capitol, which is overwhelmingly AFrican American, is not your concern. You don't seem worried that the location at Tougaloo can limit the educational reach of the museum. You want it at Tougaloo because you're so loyal to it. I admire that level of loyalty, but it is blocking further discussion, and causing some really ugly personal attacks.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T16:35:44-06:00

ID

117527

Comment

Can't find where you say anything positive about Haley either! Come on, your shucking and jiving now! On wikipedia it shows that the school is affiliated with the church, and on the church's entry it falls under the Tenn-Ala charter of the church with Tougaloo being the only MS church in the fellowship. It also cost a student upwards of $20,000 a year to attend Tougaloo. That is not exactly representative of the average student in MS. In fact, that may make it one of the most expensive schools in the State to attend. What did Gordon Gecko say in Wallstreet? "Greed is good!"

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T16:38:35-06:00

ID

117528

Comment

I guess my final point will be that the school wants "to lease" the land for a "nominal" fee to the State. OK fine. But, if the super rich alumni and associates of Tougaloo, like Walker, Sweet, Blackmon, et al., really wanted to show it was in this purely for the value of having the museum at Tougaloo; then they would have offered the land for nothing or for $1. That would show that they have no other purpose besides the historical value of the museum and their history. And, they would be bragging about it if they were. That would be the best PR move for Tougaloo as the location. I'm sorry I'm getting fired up. But, I am worried that certain white powers would rather see the museum tucked away at Tougaloo to endure that a gentrified Downtown Jackson is just that - gentrified. That is why I am suspect when someone like Taggart inputs his two cents, and when you don't hear any outcry from other business leaders who reside downtown. Or why Haley would let the location and executive committees get stacked with Tougaloo leaning leaders. This isn't about Tougaloo as people have said.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T17:06:17-06:00

ID

117529

Comment

I guess my final point will be that the school wants "to lease" the land for a "nominal" fee to the State. OK fine. But, if the super rich alumni and associates of Tougaloo, like Walker, Sweet, Blackmon, et al., really wanted to show it was in this purely for the value of having the museum at Tougaloo; then they would have offered the land for nothing or for $1. That would show that they have no other purpose besides the historical value of the museum and their history. And, they would be bragging about it if they were. That would be the best PR move for Tougaloo as the location. I'm sorry I'm getting fired up. But, I am worried that certain white powers would rather see the museum tucked away at Tougaloo to ensure that a gentrified Downtown Jackson is just that - gentrified. That is why I am suspect when someone like Taggart inputs his two cents, and when you don't hear any outcry from other business leaders who reside downtown. Or why Haley would let the location and executive committees get stacked with Tougaloo leaning leaders. This isn't about Tougaloo as people have said.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T17:09:19-06:00

ID

117530

Comment

Listening to the show... Heard a caller say that gas prices are a reason why the museum should be downtown. What do you all think?

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-04T17:39:34-06:00

ID

117531

Comment

I've probably repeated these points before, but I spoke with someone earlier tonight who strongly supports Tougaloo as a site. Among the reasons he cited (these are not my arguments, but I sympathize strongly with them): - The Civil Rights Museum should NOT, emphatically NOT, be primarily seen as a vehicle for economic development. It should be treated the same as a $55M investment as it would be if it were a $55,000 investment. The question is the most appropriate location for it, not its likely effects. - Tougaloo has a positive civil rights history that continues to the present. Downtown development is in run almost exclusively by whites who at the minimum unwillingly profited by segregation, and in some cases who played a role in the segregationist movement itself. By putting the museum downtown, the message would be sent that these developers had successfully co-opted the history of the civil rights movement to make money. The segregationists would have won it at both ends--all the money from being on the wrong side of the civil rights movement 40 years ago, and all the money from being on the right side of it now. Meanwhile, Tougaloo has always been on the right side of it and still gets bupkes. My feeling? Torn in two. Unlike my friend, I do see the museum as a vehicle for economic development--that's cynical of me, but true. So the question becomes whether to invest in downtown, which will do more with the location, or the Tougaloo area, which will mean that the entire area is centered on the two institutions of Tougaloo and the museum--giving us a powerful civil rights district. It's the same old question of integrating white power structures vs. establishing black institutional power that black activists have been asking for 120 years. And the answer is not simple.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-04T21:12:22-06:00

ID

117532

Comment

I would add re: the other point that it's not even a question of integrating white power structures per se; it's a matter of letting white developers directly benefit from the state civil rights museum instead of letting black communities do so. And maybe the former is better for the city and will bring more people to the museum, given the practical considerations...but it's a hard question, to my way of thinking. Very hard. I couldn't go picket for one position or the other because I'm very conflicted on this issue, and the conversations I've had here and there lead me to think that a lot of people in this community are similarly conflicted. The case for downtown, and/or the case for Tougaloo, still needs to be definitively made.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-04T21:15:11-06:00

ID

117533

Comment

it's a matter of letting white developers directly benefit from the state civil rights museum instead of letting black communities do so. Who are you talking about exactly—what white developers are going to directly benefit from the museum being on Farish or Mill? This is news to me. Do you know who will be contracted to build the museum at Tougaloo? Do you know who the architects are? Also, does the racial makeup of the consultants bother you? Or that the co-chair of the commission is Charles Pickering? I'm not saying it should, but if you're going down this road ... And with due respect, I put a bit more faith into what Lanier grad Carlton Brown—not exactly a white developer—is saying about the need for economic empowerment to continue the goals of the Civil Rights Movement, than in what you think, Tom. It's as if you're assuming that the words "economic development" are synonymous with white development, and it's pretty naive and insulting coming from the people who automatically draw those kinds of conclusions.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T21:58:09-06:00

ID

117534

Comment

Also, Tom, do you really not think that the white developers behind Renaissance, etc., aren't really wanting this structure up near their neck of the woods? Come on. And for the record, my primary argument has *always* been that the top priority of the museum is as an educational vehicle that should reach as wide a variety of people as possible. And I suspect strongly that it is being funneled to Tougaloo to limit that reach. There might even be a little WPS influence behind that—from folks who are smart enough to play to Tougalooans' loyalty to make sure it's not in downtown Jackson. The executive committee of Barbour's commission hired LaPaglia as the consulting firm, by the way. In case that interests anyone. They apparently started out wanting it out on Lakeland. Once the best location for educational reach is chosen, then I believe that economic empowerment of the *black* community—especially the poor black community—should be a secondary goal. That will not result from being at Tougaloo. It will result from being downtown. And the thought that anyone should want to see this museum help revitalize what was once the thriving business district of Jackson—where the office of Medgar Evers was and the lawyers' committee and so much more were—is trying to benefit the WPS is just plain stupid. With due respect.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T21:59:10-06:00

ID

117535

Comment

I also wonder how people who might want to work at the museum from the urban core of Jackson might get to work if they don't have a car. One of our employees lives on Farish Street and takes the bus to work. I hope she could do that if it were at Tougaloo. Or maybe the thought is that it would be staffed from people from up that way? I mean, considering that economic development (meaning jobs, too, of course) of the city of Jackson must not, should not, cannot be a priority. That is such sad, backward thinking. Do you know how much of Dr. King's message, especially toward the end, was about economic empowerment, and not just for the elite few? Or, Malcolm's for that matter? Or, Medgar Evers'?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T22:09:04-06:00

ID

117536

Comment

Tougaloo has a positive civil rights history that continues to the present. Downtown development is in run almost exclusively by whites who at the minimum unwillingly profited by segregation, and in some cases who played a role in the segregationist movement itself. By putting the museum downtown, the message would be sent that these developers had successfully co-opted the history of the civil rights movement to make money. Tom Head That is what supporters of the museum at Tougaloo are pushing? Whatever. I'm out. Tougaloo can have the museum with that kind of thinking. Feel the love! Probably the same mind set that spread the street level rumors about Johnson or the rumors that were beginning to grow about Crisler until Melton truly showed his ass. Just making Kaze look more and more right about in his editorial.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T22:23:03-06:00

ID

117537

Comment

I also wonder how people who might want to work at the museum from the urban core of Jackson might get to work if they don't have a car. One of our employees lives on Farish Street and takes the bus to work. I hope she could do that if it were at Tougaloo. Actually, there is a bus that goes to Tougaloo- and even if there wasn't how hard is it to make a new bus stop? Not like they have to lay a track or anything... Still, I agree that in order to reach the highest number of people possible, it really should be downtown. Also, wouldn't Tougaloo stand to benefit more from doing something else with that land than practically donating it to build a museum on?

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-04T22:23:44-06:00

ID

117538

Comment

Pike does make a point about that statement of yours, Tom. Do you even KNOW who is "benefitting" from downtown development? Do you care to know? You seem to state a lot of "facts" about the city lately that you don't take time to research first. And I would have a hard time believing that most Tougaloo people I know would make a statement like you just made on their behalf: Downtown development is in run almost exclusively by whites who at the minimum unwillingly profited by segregation, and in some cases who played a role in the segregationist movement itself. By putting the museum downtown, the message would be sent that these developers had successfully co-opted the history of the civil rights movement to make money. Next you'll be nominating people for the Brown Society. I'm really not sure you're the best spokesman for Tougaloo. First, you told us they needed the museum in order save themselves from distinction. Now, you're telling us that the museum should be at Tougaloo because downtown development is "run almost exclusively" by whites co-opting the movement for their own gain. I can't wait 'til Kaze gets hold of you on this one. This is one of the more insulting—and dare I say bigoted—things I've seen anyone post on the site. At this point, you strike me as another white guy who wants to save the black community from economic empowerment because you believe they're not capable of doing economic development themselves. That's just such a white thang. Tom, there is a strong multiracial alliance supporting the redevelopment of downtown and the empowerment of the inner city, which includes bringing economic strength back to the Farish area, which used to be the heart of the black business district. If it is up to people like you, this will never happen. As far as I'm concerned, you can go jump into the Pearl, proverbially speaking, of course. I need nothing further to do with people who think like you do. I am perfectly capable of supporting a college like Tougaloo and in supporting an effort to put this museum in a place where (a) it is likely to educate the greatest variety of people and (b) a place where it will economically benefit the most African Americans (and other races) by creating jobs, tax base, thriving local businesses and a healthy walking culture around it. Good night, and good luck.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T22:37:03-06:00

ID

117539

Comment

Donna writes: "At this point, you strike me as another white guy who wants to save the black community from economic empowerment because you believe they're not capable of doing economic development themselves." Not at all, and I have no earthly idea how you derived that from my post. Do you know something I don't about the folks who will be benefitting from the museum being downtown, rather than at Tougaloo? How confident are you that it'll be a multiracial group? How confident are you that it will help black Jacksonians and not just white developers?

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-04T22:48:46-06:00

ID

117540

Comment

You know, Donna... You've known me for, what, five years now? We've volunteered for some of the same organizations. Worked together on a few things. You have a pretty good idea of who I am, for good or ill. And I can "go jump in the Pearl" because I'm "just another white guy" who "believe[s] that [the black community isn't] capable of doing economic development"? That's personal. Much more personal than anything that I, or Ray, have posted in any of these threads.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-04T22:58:46-06:00

ID

117541

Comment

By the way, just spent three hours downtown tonight. Not trying to destroy it. Honest. My old stomping grounds--the YWCA in N. State Street--was an integrated venue destroyed and replaced with a building called the Old Capitol Inn. It used to teach a multiracial group of kids, including many low-income black kids, swimming, gymnastics, and basic life skills. Now it's...the Old Capitol Inn. Can you see why, from that background alone, I might be sympathetic to concerns about white gentrification? We all believe in investing in downtown Jackson. None of us are trying to put wealthy white developers in charge of it. Can we get real and treat each other in a kinder way and discuss this as a group of people who honestly do care about the future of Jackson as a multiracial city? We all want the same things. We just have different areas of specific concern.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-04T23:05:12-06:00

ID

117542

Comment

The museum will benefit from the downtown developments more than the developments will benefit from it.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-04T23:10:47-06:00

ID

117543

Comment

BubbaT, if that's true then the museum should probably be built downtown. But this is a legitimate matter for discussion.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-04T23:13:25-06:00

ID

117544

Comment

If I could inject some rationality here... I'm not diametrically opposed to the museum being at Tougaloo. I will visit the museum if it goes there. However, the museum will work best if it's in downtown, simply because you will have more natural exposure with all the business activity there now and in the future. Plus, it's a lot closer to those places that are in downtown. Let's say you're in town to attend a convention at the new convention center and you have some time you want to kill. You hear about a civil rights museum and you're told it's only a couple of blocks away. It's much more convenient for someone to walk from the convention center than it is to drive ten miles north and brave interstate traffic. As a caller on WJNT said, trying to get to the museum at Tougaloo from County Line Rd. can get quite hectic with all the traffic there. I will concede, though, that if people can come from miles away to shop at Northpark or the soon-to-open Renaissance, then they could drive to visit a museum at Tougaloo, particularly if driving from points south. Do you know something I don't about the folks who will be benefitting from the museum being downtown, rather than at Tougaloo? How confident are you that it'll be a multiracial group? How confident are you that it will help black Jacksonians and not just white developers? Who benefits are the people who want to learn the about the civil rights movement, the progress we've made since then and how far we still have to go. And how does this museum help black Jacksonians? Not only will it provide some job opportunities, it could spawn off an ancillary business or two, which means more jobs (though that will be more related on what's going on in downtown alltogether than with the museum itself). It will also help bring in sorely-needed revenue to a revenue-starved, majority black city. Look at how many people will be in Jackson to visit on the first day, the first week and the first weekend. And if you're wondering if black people will benefit, look who's helping in downtown's resurgence: Carlton Brown, who is spearheading Old Capitol Green and Deuce McAllister with the King Edward and Standard Life building rehabs--both whom are black men. Does the Tougaloo area need help economically? You bet it does. I also hate to see this city (and us here, for that matter) being pitted against each other in a downtown vs. Tougaloo pissing match. While I will champion for the museum to be in downtown, whether it goes there or Tougaloo, let's rally behind it and support it for the greater good of the city.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-04T23:21:12-06:00

ID

117545

Comment

I will say Tom said that a Tougaloo supporter said what he said. But, that doesn't mean it needs broadcasting unless you see it for what it is - WRONG! It totally bums me out, and makes me resent living in a city that is 75% African-American, and then going above and beyond to support efforts that help all the citizens of this City. Tom the "commission" already hired a lily white organization (two actually when you count the group in Philly) to figure out where the museum should go. So, more than likely some white folks are going to make money building and designing this thing. But, that is small potatoes when you think about the long term value the museum will have for MS. So, obviously the "commission," which has lots of African Americans on it, is not interested in "who" makes the money off the project while it gets built. So, what you heard sounds like the same kind of street level rumors that are used all the time by certain folks to keep "their" power - as they perceive it - regardless of the long term outcome or the future of the people that make up their voting base.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-04T23:21:26-06:00

ID

117546

Comment

pikersam writes: "I will say Tom said that a Tougaloo supporter said what he said. But, that doesn't mean it needs broadcasting unless you see it for what it is - WRONG!" Agreed. The comment that inspired the three replies was, in fact, made by someone other than me. And the person who told me this probably articulated his point better firsthand than I did secondhand, so he really shouldn't be blamed for it, either. pike, these may be street level rumors--but if so, they should be easy to debunk. This is a situation that calls for talking points, not telling anyone who disagrees to "go jump in the Pearl."

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-04T23:25:35-06:00

ID

117547

Comment

Tom, I'll tell you what's personal: For you to spend so much time trying to tear down efforts you know so little about, and then either come up with OR pass on bigoted statements about how economic development downtown is going to benefit the "white power structure." If I were to say (or repeat in a halfway serious fashion) that all is going on at Tougaloo is that the black power structure is trying to keep the museum to themselves for their own benefit, then you should call me out for being a bigot, because that would be an ignorant, bigoted statement. Which you and others do seem to be trying to attach to those of us who feel strongly that the museum would benefit the people who need it the most—with economic empowerment and education—from a downtown location. Y'all keep trying to make this personal against Tougaloo, and that's a load of horsesh!t. I love Tougaloo and its history, as do others here. That dog don't hunt. Otherwise, don't play some "you know me" game with me. I've never "known" you. We worked together on one project, I think, and mostly via e-mail. You've posted here A LOT, and stormed out, and then come back, and left, etc. I've seen you say and do many things that have befuddled me, and you are one of the most inconsistent people I've ever known. So don't make this personal with me. We're not friends and never have been. We're Web acquaintances. But your comments about downtown ARE personal to so many people, black and white and other races, who are working so hard to rebuild this city from its core and do something about the shrinking tax base and the rotting city core without handing the whole shebang over to either the "WPS," or conceivably some "BPS" that blasts downtown development at every turn (which has not been the Tougaloo crowd, in my experience; they've been more from Mill Street in the past). You are playing right into the division hand here and don't even seem to know it. But I will say to you and others right now: I am part of one of the most incredible alliances of people I've ever seen who are trying to rebuild this city at her core and do something about the horrendous race relations of the past. We are tired of segregation and ghettoization and civil-rights truths tucked over on the side somewhere because it makes white people uncomfortable. We want our civil rights history, both its glories and horrors, front and center and the most accessible for the most people. And we want the people hurt the most by our white supremacist past, econonimically, spiritually and otherwise, to benefit from knowing that history. We want them to have a piece of it; to feel like, once again, a plum isn't being taken away from them because they live somewhere undesirable as those folks at Paglia make downtown, and Farish, and Mill sound. I didn't tell you to jump in the Pearl, Tom, because I "disagree" with you on the museum, or anything else. I told you that because I'm sick to death of your games and your distortions and your arrogance ... and how you are pushing bigotry against hard-working people that you seem to have no clue about. And, yes, that includes African Americans involved in downtown economic development. You've essentially sent them to the back of the bus because you, and others, don't want to acknowledge that they are on the bus. These people are very real role models for our young people who are looking for ways to lift themselves up and reason to be proud of their city. The multiracial downtown coalition that has formed is a major reason for them to be proud, no matter how hard people such as yourself tries to tear it down by passing along stereotypical, and unsupported, statements about WPS developers. Met one, met them all, to hear y'all whine. Meantime, you don't seem to even understand what "economic development" is—which is not just about a white developer gentrifying a black neigborhood—not when it's done right. (And, certainly, the irony that this state is fighting over a *civil rights museum* is not lost. I personally am simply heartwarmed by the fight that graduates of Jackson Academy and Jackson State are standing together wanting the museum to be in the most accessible, diverse location. Despite all this nastiness, there is something very wonderful in that fact. And very sad that they are being so mischacterized by people who simply distill "downtown development" into being some big scheme of the WPS. It that's all it were, I'd be against it. I have a long history of fighting blatant gentrification efforts. But this is not that simple. Thank God.) I will say this once: Stop trying to pick fights here and then play innocent-litttle-Tom who didn't mean to tell the world that Pike was calling for a boycott and Ladd wasn't calling him down, CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!?! That stunt was really something and blatantly dishonest. And please don't send me any more e-mails, about anything. Ever. Please. I really don't care one way or the other at this point. You've just worn me out with the Head games.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T23:50:34-06:00

ID

117548

Comment

Tom, I said before I have no preference where its built downtown or Tougaloo, but I can see that the potential for the most visitors strongly favors downtown. The number of people going to the museum is what's going to make or break it. The downtown developments are going to attract hundreds of people everyday that are going to be near and have time to go the museum. I just don't see Tougaloo area being able to offer that. Bottom line for the museums is the number of visitors not Tougaloo history, who will make money off designing and building it, or anything else.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-04T23:57:18-06:00

ID

117549

Comment

The museum will benefit from the downtown developments more than the developments will benefit from it Bubba, bless your heart for making one of the most obvious, but elusive, statements ont his topic, yet. This is so obvious that it makes my teeth hurt to think about it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-04T23:59:01-06:00

ID

117550

Comment

Tom, when a friend of mine taught swim lessons at the YWCA in the early 80's the only people I saw there were white.... just saying. And, I can see where ladd's passion comes from regarding your posts, I'm just not qualified to say why. I am just so tired of the "they did it to us" so we are going to "do it to them" politics that many black leaders engage in around this State. We have a new generation of folks who are supposed to inherit the reigns of the this state who are not so caught up in the evils of the past, just that we have opportunities to use the tools God gave us, and to grow from the lessons of our past. I just spent lots of time with a lot of black folks who are my age and younger; and every time I tried to say such-n-such seems racist or don't you think that is an injustice about topics that came up, they replied, "man I don't have time to worry about that stuff, I have to do I what I do, so I can be who I want to be." They said they weren't ignoring the past, just that there is a bigger picture they have to attend to today - for tomorrow. No nothing is perfect; but, we are getting better all the time. Ray's point about the about the land being a former plantation holds so much more weight in the argument than what you heard today. At least he is using the actual history about Tougaloo - not a perception based on questionable thinking by certain groups.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-05T00:02:36-06:00

ID

117551

Comment

Uhm, Donna, if you're getting emails from me, please let me know. I haven't sent you any since that legislative lead I sent you in mid-February, so anything more recent than that is coming from a spoofer. Is that what all this is about?

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-05T00:07:44-06:00

ID

117552

Comment

Agreed, Pike, about Ray's plantation point. I didn't have time then to say much about it. It doesn't sway me, but it also doesn't offend me to the bone such as Tom's comments did. I do know Ray's heart, I think, and I love him, even though we disagree on where this museum should go. I wish we could have two. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-05T00:07:46-06:00

ID

117553

Comment

I wish we could have two, too, Donna. Frankly, we should. And I'm not sure it wouldn't be better to put this one downtown. But we need to look at the arguments in favor of Tougaloo, don't we? I was trying to share one that I'd heard tonight.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-03-05T00:09:58-06:00

ID

117554

Comment

No, it's about those apology e-mails I get every few months. My point is: I don't care what you say about me or the paper, Tom. Just go have at it; just leave me alone personally and don't invade my space, or twist my words, or treat me like I'm some toy pinata you bang on whenever you crave attention. I don't know how else to say it: I'm not your friend, and I'm tired of your games. You are welcome to continue posting here if you do not (a) make any more personal statements about me and people I care about; (b) check your facts before you post them, especially about Jackson; (c) stop twisting people's words; (d) don't bother addressing me directly and (e) do not "share" any more bigoted statements about entire groups of people working to help this city such as you did earlier, just as I do not allow Jim Giles to "share" his friends feelings about groups of African Americans. If that is the best argument you got for Tougaloo, just keep the garbage off this site. The games end right here. Believe it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-05T00:12:30-06:00

ID

117555

Comment

See, I told you I wasn't qualified. :) Good points ladd. Bubba too! Makes what I said look like chopped liver. And, after all this I definitely have a better respect for why Ray pointed out some particulars about Tougaloo's history as one of his points for Tougaloo. I would have loved to have seen more from Tougaloo grads or more information as to "why" it was chosen or "how much" they are actually leasing the land for to the State. It is all the secrecy and "not unavailable's" that the supporters have - or in this case haven't - put out into the public realm that leaves many of us wondering the logic of Tougaloo over Downtown. Especially when so many other museums of this stature are located in city centers.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-05T00:14:52-06:00

ID

117556

Comment

You make a good point, Pike: Beyond their wonderful role in the Civil Rights Movement, what ARE the reasons for Tougaloo? What are the criteria? How did they score? Where is the transparency? I think the state is kicking in half a million to the museum; doesn't this buy us some sunshine into the process?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-05T00:18:51-06:00

ID

117557

Comment

Why don't they take the top 5 recommended sites for the museum and let everyone vote on it in Nov? or do I just need to keep that thought to myself? :)

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-05T00:23:12-06:00

ID

117558

Comment

Someone mentioned on WJNT today about March 11. Is this the day the site will be chosen for the museum?

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-05T00:24:49-06:00

ID

117559

Comment

My understanding is that it is supposedly the amount of land available, and that there is some sort of development of new neighborhoods that will be built around the museum. However, Downtown has the land too - they only need 6 acres - and already has the development in place and in progress despite the "blight" they so readily tossed around in the report to torpedo Downtown. I don't get how Tougaloo goes from 10 to 1 on the list, why comments from McLemore were deleted from the CL, why so few who voted for Tougaloo will comment, or why more PR points were not put out to say why Tougaloo is the best site? We need sunshine indeed! I'm sure they will cook something up for the Sunday paper just before the vote. Seems to be how the game is played in MS. Grrrr!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-05T00:29:18-06:00

ID

117560

Comment

Bubba, I don't think this was designed from get-go to be a democratic process. Or a transparent one. One of the most disturbing things I've heard is that Dr. McLemore et all. were told not to bring supporters to their presentation, but Tougaloo brought tons. And THEN, the very-white consultants have the gall to write in their report that downtown didn't have the support of the civil-rights community. That's setting a group up for failure if I've ever seen it. Also, we're reporting tomorrow that the executive committee of the Civil Rights Commission basically provided one consultant choice -- LaPaglia -- and they had to get an up or down vote. No choices. I still wonder if all this meanders back to Barbour's executive suite. There's just too much maneuvering, it seems, to keep this thing out of downtown. I mean, downtown is good enough for the governor's mansion, right? Why not the civil rights museum, if you really want it to be a front and center attraction?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-05T00:31:16-06:00

ID

117561

Comment

that it is supposedly the amount of land available, and that there is some sort of development of new neighborhoods that will be built around the museum. New neighborhoods? Really? From scratch? Am I the only one who feels like this gets further and further away from honoring the spirit of the civil-rights fight every day? You go build new development around the museum on the edge of the burbs rather than allowing it to spur growth and revitalization of historic neighborhoods around it downtown?!? That just sounds like more economic flight. That is so sad if true. Seriously, who is planning to do that development? I wonder who the contractors are? I really, really hope that the development folks up north who have so many businesses moving out of Jackson aren't involved in this somehow. I don't want this to be another one of those typical Mississippi situations where divisiveness causes blindness, and in a few years, the snooker becomes apparent, but it's too late. I'm going to try to say this nicely and with grace: People, we've been extremely right about a lot of things in Jackson to date, including the boondoggle that is Melton and many of his friends (who aren't exactly pro-Jackson). Even if you're a Tougaloo graduate, at least consider the possibility that there is some sort of sting involved in this; we don't ask these questions to steer y'all wrong, or to pick fights. At least ask enough questions not to become a pawn in a larger game—and I don't mean by Tougaloo. Think, and ask, bigger than that. The pain of a whole lot of white people using Tougaloo loyalty to erect a museum in a place that could contribute to flight from Jackson, and a strengthening of suburban development and sprawl, is a simply horrifying thought. Let's at least consider the possibilities here. despite the "blight" they so readily tossed around in the report to torpedo Downtown. Yes, you can tell that the Paglia folks have a certain sensitivity toward our problems here, eh? "Blight," my butt. Have they forgotten what kind of museum they're doing here? I wonder if "redlining" will be mentioned anywhere in it? Or "white flight"?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-05T00:42:30-06:00

ID

117562

Comment

I know it am going to get blasted for saying this but here goes anyway. I think all along its been the commission's plan for the museum to be at or near Tougaloo. Not trying to hide it but for Tougaloo to be able to say "Look at us, we are a HBC, built on an old plantation, with a history in the Civils Rights Movement and we have the only Civil Rights Museum in Mississippi" It's all about the honor of having the museum.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-05T00:58:01-06:00

ID

117563

Comment

Did anyone else see the C-L coverage of the museum - their headline, "Can a Civil Rights Museum Survive?" just about killed me. What crap! As if these museums are not surviving in Birmingham and Memphis? They said nothing about that, nor about the national interest in cultural tourism/historical tourism. They basically made it seem like, oh no, here comes one more museum that will sit there and be useless. It really made me angry, and I thought, no wonder I don't read this worthless rag very often. It's too negative & clueless regarding the future of Jacktown.

Author

Izzy

Date

2008-03-05T04:10:42-06:00

ID

117564

Comment

My idea of having two museums (one at Tougaloo and one downtown, with the bus ride between them being a part of the experience) really is starting to make more sense! Has any one seen an article anywhere that outlines exactly what the museum is going to be instead of where it is going to be?

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-05T08:31:42-06:00

ID

117565

Comment

Was it in today's paper? I don't see it. I tried doing a search on the website and came up short. But like you said, they're negative and clueless when it comes to Jackson. In fact, they could do us a favor and move their offices outside the city if they feel so negative about their own city.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-05T08:37:10-06:00

ID

117566

Comment

I think the plan was preconceived (the facts seem to point there). And I'm more cynical about why Barbour and his folks would like that idea -- but the reasons you give are probably ones that the Tougaloo folks believe. I am still curious about the development slated for around it. It wouldn't be the first time that an odd deal is made in Mississippi by strange bedfellows that benefits different ones in different ways. In the past, they have not worked out well. Can I just get people to consider the strangeness of Barbour's first campaign targeting people who "attack our flag," and now he's appointing a handpicked commission to find the best, most accessible place for a civil rights museum? Is it really not conceivable to any of y'all that the man who appointed the commission might just want it tucked over to the side somewhere? His primary support base around the state is not going to like the idea of this thing. Barbour does most everything behind closed doors, folks. He's a lobbyist. So they decide to put a lot of Tougaloo folks on the commission, and then pander to their loyalty and needs. This doesn't take away from the Tougaloo folks; it means they could be being used. This is a theory, but please everyone think about it. It makes the whole consultant-commission-maneuvering-to-keep-downtown-at-a-distance stuff make sense. It also would show why they didn't open this thing up to the public and ask for opinions sooner. They wanted it to be a "done deal" before anyone could change it. Please think about it carefully. And I agree: The Ledger piece was useless, as usual.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-05T08:40:19-06:00

ID

117567

Comment

Kaze i like your piece in the opinion section of the clarionledger today. Iam proud of you man. Just like Tougaloo is fighting hard for the Museum along with people like espy and pickering, We need to fight tooth and nail like HIllary Clinton. Dont let them strong hold us down. Iam still for Obama tho

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-05T09:04:09-06:00

ID

117568

Comment

I cannot find anyone except Tougaloo grads over 45 to 50 who think this Museum should be anywhere but downtown. EVERYONE else I talk to, and it has been a lot - a whole lot - thinks it should be downtown. Interjecting WPS and "white business" into this is a COMPLETE straw man argument (and Tom, I realize that is not your argument, but just what someone relayed to you; so I'm just responding to that statement), and undoubtably intended to be a divisive tactic, generally used when you don't have any merits for your own argument. One, many, like me, hope it goes in the Farish area. If that ain't "black," I don't know what is. Two, the location will have NOTHING to do with who gets the contracts to build it, etc. etc. This is a PUBLIC MUSEUM for crying out loud. No one - no one - doubts Tougaloo's importance to the Civil Rights Era. And that importance can be adequately recognized in the Musuem. But it shouldn't be what drives the decision to locate the Musuem. The decision should be driven by where it will be most sustainable. That place is downtown.

Author

MAllen

Date

2008-03-05T09:23:03-06:00

ID

117569

Comment

After sitting back for a few days and reading the comments on the different threads about this issue, I've had more time to think about my position on the location of the museum. I think I have read every possible argument on both sides, and that's on top of going to the rally and listening to the radio show. Therefore, I will once again state that I believe that downtown Jackson is the best place for the museum. I think the best way to look at this is to put aside all loyalty and familiarity. Think like a tourist. If you have never been to Jackson before, which location would be easier for you to get to if you are already going to be downtown for a convention or on business? I've gotten off the wrong exit several times on I-55, and I live here. Imagine what it would be like for a newcomer. Maybe I'm biased because I've been a Jackson resident longer than I've been a Tougaloo graduate, but at the same time, if Tougaloo gets it, I don't want a cloud of suspicion hanging over the place for years to come. I would rather see the museum downtown with a large, permanent Tougaloo exhibit that for my alma mater's reputation to be tarnished in any way. (Speaking of colleges, I also think college students should get a discount on whatever the entry fee will be, which should encourage more of them to come. Seniors, too.) I don't know if any Tougaloo grads will call (or have already called) me a sellout for my position. If you do, I still love you.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-05T10:16:53-06:00

ID

117570

Comment

Where's the link to Kaze's Ledger column? I don't see it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-05T10:24:39-06:00

ID

117571

Comment

It's in the opinion section under Talk Back titled "Keep readers informed on site of civil rights museum"

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-05T10:29:12-06:00

ID

117572

Comment

It is my understanding that the projected cost of the Civil Rights Museum is $85,000,000.00. Also, if the "nominal" lease for the land is $200,000.00 per year, and assuming a 75 year lease, that equals $15,000,000.00. BTW, Northpark Mall is is Ridgeland; not Jackson. It is also my understanding that Farish Street got its name from the Farish Plantation. Does anyone know whether this farm utilized slave labor? It would be interesting to find out if the whole Historic Farish Street District was the site of a slave plantation.

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-03-05T10:42:11-06:00

ID

117573

Comment

Also, did anyone else pick up on the line in the consultant's report stating that Tougaloo was accessible to limosines? Get real! What site being considered isn't accessible to limosines?

Author

ChrisCavanaugh

Date

2008-03-05T10:48:08-06:00

ID

117574

Comment

$200,000 a year!!! That's not a "nominal" lease, that's robbery!

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-05T10:48:24-06:00

ID

117575

Comment

Wow that is robbery! Selling out for sure! I just rode down I-55 and the site will NOT be visible from I-55. Maybe for a second when you top the hill and curve coming from Madison; but, then the interstate takes a dip and goes UNDER County Line Road. In fact, that stretch of I-55 is one of the lowest points from Downtown to Madison. Also, you have the Druid Inn blocking any ground level view from that direction, and from the south you have the beautiful Home Depot and Target blocking the view. The more and more this stuff comes out it shows that this is a farce to make us think Tougaloo is a better location than downtown. And supposedly, that little stretch of road from the Interstate to W County Line is supposed to be "easy access!" Ha! What a joke! You don't even have an on/off ramp to I220 or I55 from State St (Hwy 51)! You have to go all the way up to Watkins to get onto I220 from W County Line, and you have to fight shopping traffic at the Target to get onto I55. But, hey one of their selling points is that the museum can tie in to Tougaloo for research opportunities! Otherwise - suck it JSU!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-05T11:16:15-06:00

ID

117576

Comment

Good point Chris. All this traffic that is supposed to help Jackson will more than likely spend most of there money in Madison County at either Northpark or up the road at Renaissance when they get out of the museum. They may eat at Macaroni Grill; but, the bulk of any shopping will be done across the street or up the road. Everyone and their brother has a BestBuy, Target, and Sam's these days!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-05T11:23:49-06:00

ID

117577

Comment

Has any seen or heard the exact locations they are talking about for downtown or Tougaloo?

Author

BubbaT

Date

2008-03-05T11:28:22-06:00

ID

117578

Comment

Its plain and simple to see that a preorganized coalition of Tougaloo and HAley Barnour folks predetermined this site, pay a consultant firm money just to say we did our research and Tougaloo is the best place. I called that firm yesterday and spoke to some gentleman he was just as secretive as this process, and i let him know how stupid their decision was and he hung up the phone. They got paid to say Tougaloo was the best choice. Know i dont care what big names back this they are wrong and continue to ignore the will of the people. I always thought SOME Tougaloo people was uppity folks and think they are better and more deserving than regular ole JSU folk now i see i was right. No offense L W.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-05T12:00:12-06:00

ID

117579

Comment

Tom your arguments are extremely disappointing and as Fred Sanford would say miiiight-ty white of you. The comments of your friend are meant to only incite a black/white discussion and try to bait us into an argument where anyone who disagrees with a Tougaloo is either a racist or a sell-out. Ive said all along if we allow Tougaloo supporters to bait us into that argument it can only come out bad for all of us. Outside of an emotional explanation based on civil rights contributions no one and I repeat no one who suports Tougaloo can present any compelling arguments to make this a debateable issue. Ask em about foot traffic..They counter with the Tougaloo 9. Ask em about proximity to other amenities..they counter with the safe haven for activists argument. Ask em to give projections on expected attendance to that area, or the completion of other projects around it, or the fact that they themselves dont own the land they are offering. They counter with the ''we were a plantation'' argument. Ask em why dont they think it was a conflict of interest that there were so many Tougaloo grads on the commission or why were THEY allowed to invite folks to THEIR presentation and the city wasnt..well...you cant find em cuz they're hiding. This is the facts. The supposition that downtown development is a project of the WPS is valid in some cases. But when you talk about King Edward; Standard Life, Capital Green, and hopefully Farish those projects have minority involvement. Capital Green is solely an AA developer..This is not a race issue, not a Tougaloo vs. Jackson issue, nor is it an issue that can be decided by who has the most war wounds. This is a common sense issue. If our city as fiscally healthy, if our police officers were getting amply paid, if city services were better, if we had the money to amply pay better quaified people, if we had the money to demolish all the buildings, If our infrastrcture was sound and we had tourists frequenting Jackson every weekend spending money thus adding to our solid tax base..then I wouldnt dare argue with a Civil Rights museum being put near Tougaloo. In fact I would encourage it! But sorry wrong time, wrong museum, this isnt your come-up. If we allow them to continue to argue on simple sentimental issues then we may indeed lose this one. The Tougaloo grads have not been fair enough to respond and I guess they feel their influence has this one in the bag. Lets be clear..This museum to them is nothing more than a political trophy in a real life game of ''Legend of Zelda'' A building that will say ''look at us..the mighty Tougaloo. Look at this huge trophy that we outsmarted the entire city of Jackson to get'' A bargaining chip that they hope to use to barter money FOR TOUGALOO. In five years I predict, based on how this issue played out, that new pamphlets and brochures promoting the college will tout the museum as the ''new Tougaloo National Civil Rights Museum'' a tool that they hope will get money and recruit students. It wont be the city of Jackson's. Im all but assured that based on Andy Taggerts comments in the CL today. The fact he was present at Tougaloo's presentation and even cares smells foul to me. In 10-12 years, and I hope Im wrong but...My generation will be left to pick up the pieces of a nearly empty building rarely being visited by the public because of its seclusion. We will have to deal with the reprecussions of this bad decison. There will be rumblings from the Tougaloo community as to why the Museum of MS History(which will have its own Civil Rights Wing) is getting more attention and more visitors and the Tougaloo museum is not. They will cry foul. They will say its not fair. But you can only wonder what will happen when downtown is drawing folks in by the thousands daily which museum they will frequent the one downtown that also has a civil rights wing or the museum on the other side of town. I will spend money at the museum regardless of where it is but my question is..will others care to???

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-05T12:08:37-06:00

ID

117580

Comment

I want care to Kaze and yall can say well iam wrong but the politics in this that heavily involves tougaloo stinks and i dont buy sh!t not even from a black faced museum. Yall see how devisive this have become putting blacks against blacks, Jacksonians against Jacksonians and since Tougaloo wants to big ball and call our bluff, lets call it like it is. Tougaloo Administration is trying to take this as their own and have the balls to act like they was ordained by the civil rights movement as Mississippi headquarters for the movement. When i think about Tougaloo i think about people like robert smith, what a arrogant tougaloo grad who thinks that Jacksonians are stupid.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-05T12:27:26-06:00

ID

117581

Comment

Well..Im not going to fall for the black vs black trap or even the tougaloo vs. jackson trap...The instistution of Tougaloo still gets my respect. And I will support the museum regardless and will encourage others to as well. I will patronize it with my own money. IF it ends up there. Why?? because ultimately I dont want there to be any speculation or any excuses if it doesnt garner the visitors they say will come. I will work to give it every shot it needs to work. Because frankly when our downtown is operating at full steam I dont see many folks clamoring to be REPEAT visitors to a museum (as someone just confirmed) that you CANT see visible from anywhere. When the enrollment doesnt increase and the money from the state they want to manipulate to upgrade the campus doesnt pour in in time..There will be no blame to place but at the feet of those who made this decision.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-03-05T12:47:53-06:00

ID

117582

Comment

I always thought SOME Tougaloo people was uppity folks and think they are better and more deserving than regular ole JSU folk now i see i was right. No offense L W. No offense taken, NewJack. At least you said "some" instead of "all". LOL

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-05T13:40:05-06:00

ID

117583

Comment

Chris, limousines can go all over the Tougaloo campus. We do all the time.

Author

bryanms

Date

2008-03-05T14:34:18-06:00

ID

117584

Comment

DOWNTOWN JACKSON

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-05T14:52:22-06:00

ID

117585

Comment

bryanms, re-read Chris' post. She isn't saying limos can't go to Tougaloo. Just that it is absurd that that is a "reason" to pick tougaloo. outside of the grand opening, you won't see a limo at the museum!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-05T15:48:04-06:00

ID

117586

Comment

see what i get for drinking during the day. thank you pike. Hillary's right - it does take a village ;) and frankly, i would really feel awkward sending a limousine to our civil rights museum - even to the grand opening... limousines and civil rights... that's like me in a thong - it just ain't appropriate!

Author

bryanms

Date

2008-03-06T10:35:22-06:00