Jackson Free Press

The polls just closed, and the world is watching Mississippi's Democratic primary. (Sit up straight.)

Previous Comments

ID

99285

Comment

Nientara Anderson, JFP art critic and former listings editor, has a piece on the New Republic site about the Mississippi primaries. Interesting statement: While there is certainly momentum for Obama among this community, it tends to be concentrated mostly amongst younger black voters. Many older black voters I spoke to were cynical about Obama's prospects, and looked forward to voting for the wife of "American's first black president," as I have heard time and again down here. Thoughts?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T18:11:05-06:00

ID

99286

Comment

FYI, the Obama watch party is at Hal and Mal's.

Author

msgrits

Date

2008-03-11T18:23:18-06:00

ID

99287

Comment

CNN is projecting Barack Obama as the winner in our primaries.

Author

msgrits

Date

2008-03-11T18:30:02-06:00

ID

99288

Comment

That was fast. Of course, I coulda probably projected that yesterday. ;-) And my experiences indicate that Obama's support is far from just young African Americans here. Although their excitement over him is, well, exciting.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T18:33:50-06:00

ID

99289

Comment

CNN is projecting Barack Obama as the winner in our primaries. Woohoo! I'm coo-coo for Coco Puffs!! Oops, wrong forum.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T18:40:34-06:00

ID

99290

Comment

AP story: Nearly one in five Democratic primary voters called himself an independent. About one in 10 was Republican. Six in 10 Obama supporters said he should pick the former first lady as his vice presidential running mate if he wins the presidential nomination. A smaller share of Clinton's voters, four in 10, said she should place him on the ticket.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T18:42:44-06:00

ID

99291

Comment

CNN will have Barack Obama on shortly.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T18:49:01-06:00

ID

99292

Comment

CNN showed a map of counties each candidate won. So far, six have reported and Obama's won them all: Humphreys, Warren, Newton, Jackson, Amite and Pike. The vote count is now tied 49-49%.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T18:58:26-06:00

ID

99293

Comment

Yep, I'm watching for him. See the exit polls here. The race really split along racial lines here, showing that even Democrats are predictable on that front in our state. Of course, Obama clearly drew a lot more votes, so the 10 percent of his vote that was white might be an impressive number. Also, I'd like to know how many people voted who haven't been voting. There are a lot of variables here—and if turnout of progressives, young people and non-whites increases due to his candidacy, that's a huge deal and could change Mississippi's election outcomes, as Obama himself has pointed out: Back in August, Obama told the AP that he's the "only candidate who, having won the nomination, can actually redraw the political map." The reason? Black voters. "I guarantee you African-American turnout, if I'm the nominee, goes up 30 percent around the country, minimum," he said. "So we're in a position to put states in play that haven't been in play since LBJ." The state at the heart of Obama's prediction was Mississippi. At the time, Obama said that "if we just got African-Americans in Mississippi to vote their percentage of the population, Mississippi is suddenly a Democratic state"; in November he told the Washington Post that he "think[s] [he] can put Mississippi in play." It's the turnout numbers that matter here. Also, the Newsweek blog didn't take into account that McCain could draw a lackluster white vote (although Barbour has ensured that Lott's seat will be on the November ballot, so that will likely help the conservative turnout, despite McCain.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:00:32-06:00

ID

99294

Comment

Rankin is leaning towards Clinton; Harrison is leaning Obama.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:01:40-06:00

ID

99295

Comment

I've checked all the stations and Hillary is ahead by 800 votes! Yet, they all have Obama winning. What is amiss here?

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-11T19:03:37-06:00

ID

99296

Comment

CNN just said he has a white-male problem in Mississippi. Doh. I wish they would publish an actual number of how many white men vote Democratic here typically, without a black man on the ticket. Obviously, with due respect, he wasn't going to draw a huge white male vote here. The vast majority of them will vote Republican if they vote. The story *should* be the black turnout and excitement.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:04:19-06:00

ID

99297

Comment

Pike, I think it's about exit polls.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:06:57-06:00

ID

99298

Comment

Still up by 200 votes.... I'm sure he is going to win as Hinds will be one of the last counties reported, and knowing how they work down there at the court house counting votes!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-11T19:07:31-06:00

ID

99299

Comment

CNN is showing that, too, but Wolf said he will win "decisively." Explaining now.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:08:17-06:00

ID

99300

Comment

Jackson County has leaned back towards Clinton and so is Lee (Tupelo) and Desoto. Obama is doing quite well in the Delta.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:11:24-06:00

ID

99301

Comment

Meaning they are slow. Cochan, Avery and crew are not the best Election Commissioners you can have!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-11T19:11:28-06:00

ID

99302

Comment

OK, normalcy has returned. Obama is up! BTW: We are really going to see how ruthless the Clinton camp can be now that she is one the ropes and about to go down for the count. She is banking on the false votes of MI and FL to win which will disenfranchise the rest of the democratic voters across the US.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-11T19:14:36-06:00

ID

99303

Comment

Win will focus on the issues more succinctly. No more tricks, just the facts.

Author

Prophet

Date

2008-03-11T19:15:27-06:00

ID

99304

Comment

Obama's now leading again, 49-48%, with about six percent or so of the precincts reporting. The map now shows Hinds and Rankin leaning Obama.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:16:20-06:00

ID

99305

Comment

Their analysis drives me crazy, with Soledad talking about Obama's white-male problem. Folks, Hillary's voters are going to vote for Obama if he gets the nomination. The rest of the white boyz are going to vote Republican. What matter is how many non-typical voters, of all races, might be added to the mix because they are excited by Obama? How hard can this be?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:17:09-06:00

ID

99306

Comment

Let's not overlook the congressional races, too. Should the numbers hold up, Gregg Harper and Charlie Ross appear to be heading to a runoff in the district three race.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:17:55-06:00

ID

99307

Comment

Agreed on Clinton ruthlessness, Pike. I believe they would divide the Democratic baby before they cede defeat.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:19:47-06:00

ID

99308

Comment

I forgot about the congressional race. It's been so stupid that I can't bear to watch.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:20:27-06:00

ID

99309

Comment

To be honest, I thought Landrum would be leading, given that he was the most visible candidate as far as advertising and yard signs are concerned, but maybe his voting issues are hurting him. Soledad, tell Spitzer to take a hike. This is our day in the sun, even at 8:23pm.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:23:57-06:00

ID

99310

Comment

Also, the exit polls make it look like Rush's plea for white Republicans to vote for Hillary may have worked some here. That helps in a couple ways: It helps give the nomination to Hillary, who will not excite as many new voters as Obama, and is more partisan and divisive, helping McCain in November. It also means that pundits like Soledad start talking about Obama's white-male problem. Clinton's got one, too, if not as much among diehard Democrats.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:24:40-06:00

ID

99311

Comment

Obama's leading is now widening, now leading 52-46% with 14% reporting.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:27:14-06:00

ID

99312

Comment

I'm watching the returns on WAPT...Alan Keyes was on the ballot in MS?

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:36:27-06:00

ID

99313

Comment

Also, Clinton may lose a super delegate when New York cad, er, governor Eliot Spitzer resigns. Democratic sources there say it's a matter of when and not if he resigns.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T19:40:30-06:00

ID

99314

Comment

CNN's John King just pointed out that Clinton is winning in North and South Mississippi strongholds. So tell me some folks aren't following Rush's advice! Folks, she won't get those votes in November.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T19:52:18-06:00

ID

99315

Comment

Exactly! I think Limbaugh getting Republicans to vote for Clinton and Ann Coulter's endorsement of her are just ploys to somehow make it easier for McCain to win. I hope it backfires big time.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T20:08:04-06:00

ID

99316

Comment

Bennie Thompson is winning with his hands tied behind his back over Dorothy Benford for the right to back to Washington and represent district two. Charlie Ross is now leading Gregg Harper by a razor-thin margin, but not enough to head off an imminent runoff.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T20:13:01-06:00

ID

99317

Comment

Delbert hoseman a REPUBLICAN predicted 150,000 would vote today, i guess the downplaying of the democratic primary didnt work. Because with a half of the precints reporting it at like 160,000 already that has voted. What a sorry Secretary of State.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-11T20:14:18-06:00

ID

99318

Comment

First of all, the Rushie's are more concentrated on the 3rd District in this state. I don't know what election they had in TX when he made that statement? Second, I think you are over estimating the mind set of many white democrats from MS. Just like the blue collar workers in the northern states, it is hard for some whites, even democratic ones, to pull the trigger for a black person. Just look at the crowds that were around Hillary while she visited Hattiesburg and the Coast, they were 98% white. In fact, everywhere I see her their are only a few black faces behind her unless it is in a predominately black area like in Atlanta. Let's be a bit real here. I know we have come a long way; but, true partisanship in politics, when it comes to race, still lags. We've had a few statewide races that prove that - i.e. Lt Gov Tuck vs Blackmon. Those of us in the great city of Jackson are far more progressive counterparts in the rest of the State.

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-11T20:17:58-06:00

ID

99319

Comment

New, I was completely stunned when he made a low to moderate turn out prediction. I wanted to know what election he was talking about.

Author

msgrits

Date

2008-03-11T20:27:15-06:00

ID

99320

Comment

Right, NewJack, I was wondering if Hosemann was game-playing myself. It seemed obvious that the Democratic turnout would be large. Pike, you're right about the conservative white Dems in those areas. But would they really vote for her? I guess some would. But I've heard constantly of late that whites were going to cross over for HIllary to try to keep Obama from getting the nomination. The exit polls seem to show some evidence of that. I mean, do YOU think that Hillary of all people is drawing Republican votes? And I know Jackson is more progressive. Thank God.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T20:27:57-06:00

ID

99321

Comment

Well, Hosemann is clearly not above blatant political tricks. So far, he is a huge disappointment. I thought he might turn out better than his campaign indicated (mainly because one of his guys left a long, rambling message for me about how he was more progressive than it seemed from the campaign, blah, blah.) But he seems to wear a Republican leash.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T20:29:20-06:00

ID

99322

Comment

Did y'all see that CNN is reporting that Obama won Texas caucuses and will get more delegates from Texas than Clinton? What an awful week for him.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T20:33:23-06:00

ID

99323

Comment

Obama sure does bring out the best in people. Ferraro sounds like some of the folks who pass through and post here now and then. Does she not see the difference in Obama's support base today and her lack of one in the past? Obviously, people were sexist against her then. I remember it well. However, I worked for a women's organization then that endorsed her and not Mondale. (Lord.) So her gender helped her, too. Truth is, Mondale was a lump, bless his heart. Truth is, Obama is very exciting and inspiring, regardless of his race. The fact that he is African American is delicious icing on the cake. But it's not the source of his power.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T20:36:17-06:00

ID

99324

Comment

CNN's map are showing a huge swath of the state going for Obama. Clinton's strongest areas are in Desoto County, northeast Mississippi, a few counties near Hattiesburg and Hancock County.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T20:43:17-06:00

ID

99325

Comment

CNN on Obama's Texas "win": Obama also finished first in the Texas Democratic caucuses. The caucuses were held last week, but the race was not called until Tuesday night. Video Watch Obama talk about his win » Obama will get more delegates out of the state than Clinton, who won the state's primary. Under the Texas Democratic Party's complex delegate selection plan, Texas voters participated in both a primary and caucuses last week. Two-thirds of the state's 193 delegates were at stake at the primary, while the remaining third were decided by the caucuses.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T20:46:58-06:00

ID

99326

Comment

Am I looking at the CNN map correctly- did Madison go for Obama?

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-11T20:47:29-06:00

ID

99327

Comment

Obama sure does bring out the best in people. Like this guy? I knew attacks like this would happen and it's only gonna get worse. BTW, when you click on the link, does it remind you of something local?

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T20:47:41-06:00

ID

99328

Comment

DailyKos folks are saying exit polls shows that Hillary drew 25,000 McCain voters here. Ahem.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T20:48:42-06:00

ID

99329

Comment

The news organizations are making Mississippi's High African American Turnout a racial issue, now i think whites everywhere will feel since blacks are voting for Barack 9 out of ten then they are voting for him because hes black, So some whites might forget the real issues Barack is speaking about and out of retaliation vote in favor of hilary to show loyalty to their race and to help her out in Pennslyvania. People yall cant have it two ways, complain that blacks dont vote but when we do people claim its because we are racist. We may be inspired and hunger for that change that Barack brings. Dam* iam good.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-11T20:49:10-06:00

ID

99330

Comment

I am so proud of my state right now! I thought I would be about 70 before I would see a person of color get a majority vote for president in Mississippi, if ever. Makes me want to break out in song: MINE EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY OF THE COMING OF THE LORRRRRD... Okay, enough of that. Anyway, I knew that the voter turnout would be larger than what Hosemann predicted. The rain earlier this morning didn't hold anyone back, either. When I arrived at the polls at 7 AM, there were already about 20 people ahead of me, and folks were quickly lining up behind me. I had to pass by the polling place several times today, and each time cars were lined up on the side of the road. Even my mom, who said she wasn't going to vote any more for a while, cast her vote for Obama. I had to give her a high-five. Regardless of how things turn out in November, I will always remember this historic day.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-11T20:49:56-06:00

ID

99331

Comment

I was #30 at my polling place, around 8am.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T20:53:23-06:00

ID

99332

Comment

Yes, the national media are always in search of a narrative. As someone on Kos pointed out, when he took a lot of white votes, the narrative was that he was the white person's candidate. Whatever. The truth is that this is Mississippi, and many African Americans (and some whites) have waited for a long time to see this glory in the state where the most lynchings occurred, among other things. What's remarkable is that they are surprised. I am saddened, though, at the racial breakdowns among Democrats. It is so true that most people I've heard say they're voting for her are white. I hope they would do the same against John Edwards, but I don't know if I'm feeling it. Thus, the surprise isn't that Obama is doing so well among blacks here—doh—it's that Clinton is doing so well among whites (especially considering the sexism we still maneuver here). I expected that side to be more split; I mean these are Dems; obviously, most Republicans here won't yet vote for a black man. We can stipulate that.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:09:05-06:00

ID

99333

Comment

I look forward to hearing what the turnout was really like, especially in the black community. This should be the most-watched figure of the night.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:10:19-06:00

ID

99334

Comment

From the lead story dominating the top of the Clarion-Ledger's Web site: voter turnout Turnout for both parties [sic] races are [sic] about equal. Republican nominee John McCain leads on the GOP side with about 79 percent. Er, that's fabulously and remarkably untrue. Here's a quick read of the CNN site, with 89 percent reporting for both Dems and Republicans: Democratic Primary Obama 214,944 Clinton 140,701 Total (89% reporting): 355,645 Republican Primary McCain 102,933 Huckabee 16,393 Paul 5,111 Total (89% reporting): 124,437 So is the supposition that 231,208 Republicans went into the booths and didn't push *any* name next to a Republican in the primary slot, but voted down-ticket for a Senate and House candidate? That's ridiculous. Where did the C-L get it's "about equal" fiction? Maybe from Hosemann's people, who, according to the quote run by CNN, were off in their predictions by 300 to 400 percent! From CNN: Between 125,000 and 150,000 voters were expected to cast ballots Tuesday, according to Pamela Weaver of the Mississippi Secretary of State's Office. Unless I'm missing something here, I'd say we've got some "o-fers" going on around town tonight.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-03-11T21:20:48-06:00

ID

99335

Comment

Don't tell me it was the same Ledger chick that NPR interviewed today that made the media here look like uninformed ass-wipes. I can't bear to look for myself. "Fabulously and remarkably untrue," indeed. Somehow, I just had visions of The Clarion-Ledger endorsing Bush the second time around, saying he needed to go back and fix his messes (as if he could resuscitate our family members-turned-soldiers). The Ledger is terrible for this state. No wonder inter/national media show up here with no idea what is going on in this state. They Google and trip over the Ledger.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:25:58-06:00

ID

99336

Comment

Also, spend a little time with the religious exit-poll figures. I wish the nation would understand what is happening with religious progressivism here. Interesting that many Obama voters don't self-identify as "Protestants." ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:29:54-06:00

ID

99337

Comment

According to the Mississippi Secretary of State's Website, there were 76,298 votes cast in the 2004 Democratic presidential primary. (It's worth noting that pretty much *nothing* was contested at that point in the election.) There will be over 400,000 votes cast in the Democratic primary this time around. Interestingly, in 2004, Kerry/Edwards received 458,094 votes in the *general* election.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-03-11T21:31:00-06:00

ID

99338

Comment

Don't tell me it was the same Ledger chick that NPR interviewed today that made the media here look like uninformed a**-wipes. I can't bear to look for myself Nope, different "Ledger chick." ;-) I started by assuming it was AP or coming from some wire elsewhere where there might be honest confusion...but then realized the copy wouldn't be that messy.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-03-11T21:40:48-06:00

ID

99339

Comment

400,000 -- what is that -- 20 percent of our population? This is *exactly* my friggin' point. Obama is turning out *new* voters here. Would someone stick a fork in Hosemann? Preferably get an immigrant to do it. I *promise* that a lot of people voted today who don't usually. Double-dog promise.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:42:04-06:00

ID

99340

Comment

OK, before people start accusing me of being sexist for dissin' the Ledger poli-chicks ... folks, we want female political commentators in this state. Desperately need 'em. But having these young women from elsewhere WITH NO CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON IN OUR POLITICAL ARENA doing the commentary (and/or reporting) is not the answer. Just like I won't vote for Clinton because she's female; I can't not comment on the quality of political reporting coming out of the Ledger because it's being done by young women. Standards, folks, standards. Let's have some.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:44:35-06:00

ID

99341

Comment

Just saw on Nightline that about 92% of black Dems voted for Obama and 70% of white Dems voted for Clinton.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-11T21:46:58-06:00

ID

99342

Comment

Two things I find interesting about the exit polling. (1) *No significant indexing of people with incomes over $100,000. (2) Only 2% of respondents live in an "urban" area. Presumably the exit polling would count Jackson as an urban area, although it's hard to know if that's based on density or some population cutoff.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-03-11T21:48:36-06:00

ID

99343

Comment

Right. Have we seen actual numbers of how many whites voted and how many blacks? Seems relevant.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:49:03-06:00

ID

99344

Comment

Ahh, interesting re exit polls. How can you not poll *Jackson* in this state and expect the results not to be skewed? I hate to say it, but I'm feeling like the overwhelming white TV pundits are having what Emily calls the "I see black people" response. They really don't know what to do with Mississippi African Americans lifting their voices and singing about a black presidential candidate.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:51:17-06:00

ID

99345

Comment

Well, I am damn proud to be one of the 30%!! Don't know about y'all, but we are having a bit of a party. :)

Author

ellen

Date

2008-03-11T21:51:24-06:00

ID

99346

Comment

Hell, yeah, I'm proud to be one of the 30 percent of whites who voted for Obama, too. We're still at the office, Ellen, but have a cocktail for us, too! Someone very wise on political number-crunching here told me back when we started the paper in '02 that it would take just over 30 percent of Mississippi whites to vote "blue" to swing the state. Of course, that doesn't apply today in a Democratic primary, but I'm not as unexcited as, say, Soledad by 30 percent of whites (which apparently included at least 25,000 McCain voters) voting for Obama today here. And other than those McCain voters, most of them will likely vote for Obama in November. On the other hand, many of Obama's voters may well stay home if she is the nominee. I, for instance, would have to hold my nose to vote for half the Clinton couple at this point. I would, though—but many would not.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T21:57:34-06:00

ID

99347

Comment

Oh, and just because I link this every chance I get: What Republicans don't want you to know.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T22:00:16-06:00

ID

99348

Comment

I have no problem having an extra cocktail for the JFP tonight. ;) I, for instance, would have to hold my nose to vote for half the Clinton couple at this point. I would, though—but many would not. I agree. Don't think we're going to have to do that though. I hope!

Author

ellen

Date

2008-03-11T22:06:14-06:00

ID

99349

Comment

So. They're finally starting to get. it. From DailyKos tonight: Maybe MS will be in play in November (6+ / 0-) So far, with 11 percent still not reporting, we have 363,670 votes in the Democratic side alone. Throw in another 130,000 or so in the Republican side, and we're talking half a million voters. If all these Democratic voters show up in November, maybe there is actually a chance that Mississippi will go blue. by TX Freethinker on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:29:53 PM PDT Folks, we've been trying to tell you this for a long time now. Give Mississippians a candidate/Democrat worth turning out for, and we will surprise your a$$es.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T22:07:23-06:00

ID

99350

Comment

BTW, I'm glad I live in Mississippi tonight—Obama country—and not in New York City any longer. ;-D

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T22:08:16-06:00

ID

99351

Comment

OK, while driving home tonight, something very obvious hit me: Obama got 30 percent of the white vote; the wife of the nation's "first black president" got only 10 percent of the black vote in a huge black turnout election. So why is the narrative, at least on CNN, tonight that HE has something to prove. Sounds like he's doing something that she is having trouble with: drawing significant votes from both blacks and whites. And as the iTodd just pointed out to me, he is not drawing this astounding black turnout/vote here because he is black -- or only because he is black. He is getting it because he is poised, speaks to voters' concerns, inspires them, doesn't divide and because he manages to be black while doing all that. That's an explosive combination. Of course, what has happened in Mississippi as we kept telling the media who came by last week is that her popularity has slipped among African Americans here due to the Clinton's racial muck-ups. They've got a true-colors problem, and its affecting their support base in the African American community. This is most certainly *not* Obama's problem; he is picking up votes people didn't expect him to get. It's Clinton who has some proving to do. Of course, it serves her to try to convince a superficial national media that, somehow, his support among African Americans will be a handicap. This is sheer absurdity considering that it will boost turnout for him in November, but likely not her. I keep saying it: Most of *her* real voters will not stay home if he's the nominee; many of his will because they will not be inspired.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T22:43:03-06:00

ID

99352

Comment

Hosemann = Big muck up. Just sayin'. (Doesn't he have some bigots to disenfranchise, or something. Giggle, snort.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T22:51:28-06:00

ID

99353

Comment

Also, at Daily Kos, they're talking about how a lot of Clinton supporters said in exit polls that they would be unhappy if she got the nomination. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T22:52:39-06:00

ID

99354

Comment

What kills me is that Hosemann would go public and make a "low turnout" prediction when African Americans in this state of all ages are in a near-frenzy over Obama. What is he thinking? Did he think that his big prediction would keep Dems home? Is he THAT out of touch with what's going on in this state politically? Remarkable, really. Now, he looks vera, vera foolish. BTW, we've barely touched the congressional race -- icky -- but it looks like Charlie Ross and Gregg Harper are going into a runoff. No surprise that Landrum grossed himself out of this race. And Rousaville tried too much negative campaigning and mentioned Chip about 30,000 too many times. He sounded like the secretary who wanted to be the boss. I don't know a lot (enough) about Harper (he wasn't at our debate, either), but I had a feeling he has the gravitas to pull this one off, considering that there is so little gravitas in the race to begin with. He may well be your next congressman, 3rd District. Ross was nice to me recently after the debate—we talked about the local blogosphere and how they don't believe in factchecking after he complimented our reporting of the facts!—but I don't think I agree with him on a single policy question. I doubt he cares that much one way or the other about social wedge issues, but he's a corporate conservative down the line. And those are going out of fashion quickly in Washington.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T23:09:34-06:00

ID

99355

Comment

It is remarkable in a way that leaves me speechless that The Clarion-Ledger managed to report tonight, as noted above, that both parties drew about the same amount of voters today (not corrected as of now). Just look at these numbers. Who will be the bigger arse as the sun rises tomorrow—Delbert Hosemann or the reporter/editor team who let such idiocy be posted on a site that the world can see??? I mean, look what the Ledger reported that Hosemann said: Between 125,000 to 150,000 voters will cast ballots, Secretary of State Delbert Hosemann predicted. He said 100,000 headed to the polls in the 2004 presidential primary that featured eight contenders for the Democratic nomination, including ultimate nominee Sen. John Kerry. Mississippi has 1.78 million registered voters. Can you be more wrong!?! (I'm hearing the old rhyme in my head: "Chandler and Hosemann came up missing ..." So I think it's time to go to bed. What a great day for Mississippi, though. Even my home county of Neshoba County went for Obama. I think my life has officially come full circle. Life is good. Night, night.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-11T23:35:15-06:00

ID

99356

Comment

The Ledge wins (or loses, depending on how you look at it) this one. Anyone who know simple math knows that 415K-plus Democratic votes vs. 140K-plus or so Republican votes are not equal, especially when both Clinton and Obama by themselves got more votes than the entire Republican field. Good night and pleasant dreams, Mississippi. You did us proud today.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-11T23:55:54-06:00

ID

99357

Comment

On Hoseman, I have been laughing ever since I saw that article with his prediction on it. I thought to myself, who's he kidding and where does he live?

Author

C.W.

Date

2008-03-12T06:25:38-06:00

ID

99358

Comment

I'm really wondering about the 23,000 people who voted against McCain on the Republican side- wonder who they will go for in November?

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-12T07:14:22-06:00

ID

99359

Comment

The national media is making much to do about the 90% of blacks who went for Obama and the 70% of whites that went for Clinton. NPR talked about it about a half hour ago.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-12T07:35:14-06:00

ID

99360

Comment

Right, golden. I just heard Mississippi Public Broadcasting, of all media, repeat that the theme of the night was racial polarization. (I'm not sure any MPB reporters/interviewers are from the state, by the way.) People, the word of the name was *turnout*. Mississippi voters have always been racially polarized; that is not news. What is news is that a black candidate was able to get nearly a third of registered voters to turn out to vote for or against him, and that 30 percent of his voters in Mississippi were white. This simply cannot be framed as a negative for Obama. If it is, then that is racist, people. It means that the national (and state?) media have no idea how to respond to a huge black turnout. It is a negative for Clinton, though. She has steadily lost the black vote, which is energized, and that bodes very poorly for her in November. The other news is that the turnout was so big that it was several hundred times more percent that the state's secretary of state predicted. This should lead every story, because it's turnout that will affect politics in America, and Mississippi, in a significant way. Why do media not want to acknowledge that simple fact?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T08:28:07-06:00

ID

99361

Comment

The Clarion-Ledger is still saying turnout was "light to moderate" this morning! Are they just going to pretend to Mississippians that they didn't screw this up, or that Hosemann didn't!?! This is unbelievable. If the Ledger can't figure out that this was a remarkable turnout, how can we expect national media? Oh my God, The Clarion-Ledger and reporter Natalie Chandler are embarrassing!?! She writes: Turnout was light to moderate in a state with 1.78 million voters. Oh. My. God. Where are the turnout numbers? Where is the correction of what she wrote last night about Dems and Republicans putting out about the same number of voters? Where is the comparison with past primaries? Is the Ledger trying to hide what happened in Mississippi last night? Are they covering for Hosemann? Why??? This may be worse than the Ledger hiding the fact that Melton was lying under oath in a case involving them during his campaign. Maybe not, but it is truly, truly awful reporting and framing of a national story. Do they think no one will notice?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T08:34:54-06:00

ID

99362

Comment

And then there were those of us, white Republicans, who voted for Obama. (crickets chirping) Well, I did. :)

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2008-03-12T09:24:00-06:00

ID

99363

Comment

500K-plus votes don't spell light to me. It may not have been the heaviest turnout ever for an election in Mississippi, but the Ledge could've done us a favor by reporting where turnout was the lightest and heaviest. To follow-up on the racial aspect of the race, the media (whatever few media were there) should've taken note of the pronounced numbers of whites who showed up at the Obama rally at JSU the other night. I've never seen so many non-blacks on a black college campus for anything ever, but that's beside the point. It was great to see the diversity there. The camera only showed one crowd shot, which were almost all black. From my observation, I would say about a quarter to no greater than a third of the attendees were white. Also, the media reports that 70% of white voters supported Hillary Clinton, but how many of them were actually McCain supporters who decided to cross over and vote for Clinton because they think their guy would have an easier chance of beating her than Obama in the general election? Seems to me that the national media is reading too heavily into the black voting bloc that was behind Obama and using the state again as a poster child for all things racial.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-12T09:40:17-06:00

ID

99364

Comment

LH, those crickets are singing your praises. :-)

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-12T10:14:33-06:00

ID

99365

Comment

Folks, Bob Moser at The Nation is blogging about our comments above last night, quoting from us liberally (which he asked permission to do because he is a class act). Check it out. (I bet it's the first time that Pike-the-Republican has been quoted by The Nation!). This is how he starts out: I could analyze Senator Barack Obama's Mississippi win all day--and wouldn't that be a kick? But I wouldn't be able to do nearly as provocative a job as Donna Ladd, editor of the hell-raising Jackson Free Press, and her election-night blogmates. The post-primary story from the pundisphere was all about the stark racial disparity in the vote, and it was stark indeed, with exit polls showing 91 percent of African Americans going for Obama and 72 percent of whites for Senator Hillary Clinton. But there were other ways to read the Mississippi results, as the Free Press blog points out. For one thing, the strong white vote for Clinton was skewed, as Ladd points out, by Republicans turning out to vote for the New York Senator; 13 percent of the primary voters identified as GOPers, and nearly 80 percent of them went for Clinton. And while older people voted for Clinton, the future looks interesting for Mississippi Democrats; 72 percent of voters under 30 went for Obama, considerably more than the 60 percent overall. (I'll also double-post this on my blog as well.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T12:48:55-06:00

ID

99366

Comment

I think one of The Nation's commenters missed my point last night. Yes, white men in the South matter. But the fact that Obama turned out an amazing number of African Americans to vote for him yesterday does not mean that Obama has much more of a white male problem than any other Democratic presidential candidate has had in Mississippi in recent years. You've really got to parse those turnout numbers for a full picture here. If Obama can increase turnout in November dramatically across the South among African Americans, then the white male vote won't matter quite as much. And that sho' is a nice goal, eh?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T12:55:47-06:00

ID

99367

Comment

And it's on Yahoo News.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T12:59:32-06:00

ID

99368

Comment

I just posted this on the wrong thread, so here it is again: Folks, the story last night was *not* racial polarization (that's been the story for a couple centuries, give or take); it was turnout and what Obama managed to do Let's recap, now that the numbers are a bit more clear: Of just less than 1.8 million registered voters in the state, some 550,000 turned out last night (400,000 more than the deaf-and-dumb secretary of state predicted, and about that number voting for Democrats). It is becoming clearer and clearer from exit polls that even of Hillary's cut of those voters, a good number of them probably turned out to vote for her because they want McCain to win and believe Obama has the best shot against him (and that may or may not be racist, national media; probably a mixture). As Todd points out above, this is far and beyond the Democratic turnout in previous primaries. And that doesn't mean that (except for the Republican squatters) Obama is suddenly turning off white Democrats who will likely vote for him in November if he is the nominiee. What he is doing is igniting black and young voters who may well not turn out to vote for Clinton and her marital and DLC baggage. That is the story, if anyone cares.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T13:10:50-06:00

ID

99369

Comment

After its horrendous strong of erroneous articles since last night, The Clarion-Ledger is starting to figure out that something big happened last night. (Check the numbers for yourself; the reporters there are clearly math-challenged.) As we've been saying repeatedly since 2004 and before, the youth vote is to be reckoned with in Mississippi if you give them a candidate worth a damn. I mean, they led the South for Kerry in 2004. And that was for *Kerry*.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T13:25:19-06:00

ID

99370

Comment

And, yes, we are thrilled to report that many of these young voters are JFP readers. Not so much The Clarion-Ledger. Maybe that's why that paper has ignored them for so long.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T13:26:14-06:00

ID

99371

Comment

Republican votes skew Democrat primaries Democrats in Texas say that a campaign by the talk show host Rush Limbaugh urging fellow Republicans to vote for Mrs Clinton helped to keep her in the presidential race. Exit polls support the contention that thousands of Republicans contributed to the former first lady's narrow victory over Barack Obama in the state. Coupled with her triumph in Ohio, Texas saved Mrs Clinton's White House bid after 11 straight losses and guaranteed the battle for the party's presidential nomination will last several more weeks if not months. Although Mrs Clinton is a hate figure for Right-wingers, Mr Limbaugh agrees with most opinion polls that she would be an easier opponent for Mr McCain. Even if Mr Obama eventually wins the nomination, the broadcaster hopes a prolonged struggle will weaken him and his party.

Author

kaust

Date

2008-03-12T14:26:17-06:00

ID

99372

Comment

That sounds like something straight out of Survivor or Big Brother.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-12T14:47:55-06:00

ID

99373

Comment

I find it interesting that so few news sources are touching on the fact that Republicans came out in droves to support Clinton (75%-25% according to Daily Kos). I wonder how much that skewed the racial percentages?

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2008-03-12T15:41:17-06:00

ID

99374

Comment

75 percent? I don't think that's true, Deirdra. This is tricky stuff: In order to counter the huge Democratic turnout, state Repubs will try to say there was a big crossover vote (as if they should be proud of that, but hey). That would be better than admitting that they could lose this state as soon as November if Obama is the nominee. However, it is important to realize that some voters for Hillary -- who are not going to vote for any Democrat in November -- turned out to try to keep a Democrat out of the White House. That fact just shouldn't be overblown.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T16:05:12-06:00

ID

99375

Comment

Ferraro leaving Clinton campaign WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former congresswoman and vice-presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro is resigning her fundraising position with Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign after controversial comments she made about Clinton's rival, Sen. Barack Obama. Comments by former Rep. Geraldine Ferraro are drawing criticism from the Obama campaign. "I am stepping down from your finance committee so I can speak for myself and you can continue to speak for yourself about what is at stake in this campaign," Ferraro wrote in a letter to Clinton. "The Obama campaign is attacking me to hurt you. I won't let that happen." Ferraro told CNN she sent the letter to Clinton Wednesday afternoon. Ferraro stirred controversy with her recent remarks that Obama's campaign was successful because he was black. "It wasn't a racist comment, it was a statement of fact," she said on CBS' "The Early Show," adding that she would leave Hillary Clinton's national finance committee if she were asked, but would not stop raising money for the New York senator's presidential bid. She also blamed Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod, for misinterpreting her remarks. Ferraro also told ABC's "Good Morning America" that "every time" someone makes a negative comment about Obama, they are accused of racism. Late Tuesday, she told an interviewer that she felt she was being attacked because she was white. "Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let's address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up," she told the Daily Breeze of Torrance, California. "Racism works in two different directions. I really think they're attacking me because I'm white. How's that?" Could it have something to do with the fact that she's done this before? This is not the first time Ferraro has made a racially sensitive remark about a black presidential candidate. In an April 15, 1988, article in The Washington Post, Ferraro is quoted as saying that because of his "radical" views, "if Jesse Jackson were not black, he wouldn't be in the race." Jackson is quoted in the article as saying, "We campaigned across the South ... without a single catcall or boo. It was not until we got north to New York that we began to hear this from ... President Reagan and then Mrs. Ferraro. ... Some people are making hysteria while I'm making history." The Post said in that 1988 article that Reagan suggested people did not ask Jackson tough questions because of his race.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-12T16:21:54-06:00

ID

99376

Comment

The article on Daily Kos made it sound a little wild, so I dug around. The numbers are right there in CNN's exit polls... page four, here: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#MSDEM but the Daily Kos article neglects that they're speaking of the _12%_ of registered Republicans who voted Democratic.

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2008-03-12T16:21:56-06:00

ID

99377

Comment

Oh right. That makes more sense. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T16:25:24-06:00

ID

99378

Comment

Ferraro is clearly an idiot. A defensive white idiot. Reminds me of some of the people who pass through here, whining about how I hate white people or some such bullsh!t. Some of my best friends are white. Oh, and look, my family is white. Too bad I hate them all. AND OH MY GOD: I'M WHITE. Why didn't y'all tell me already? Sigh. Bye, bye, Gerry. Good riddance.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T16:26:46-06:00

ID

99379

Comment

Sen. Obama was asked about her remarks this morning on the Today Show. He proved he was a class act with his response to that and to the Spitzer debacle.

Author

Lady Havoc

Date

2008-03-12T16:42:55-06:00

ID

99380

Comment

Donna, she was definitely defensive. During her GMA interview, she barely let Diane Sawyer finish a question.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-12T16:43:04-06:00

ID

99381

Comment

Yeah, it's a bad week in New York. First, Spitzer's brand of sexism. Now, Ferraro's brand of bigotry (or even racism, considering that she's trying to promote the idea not only that Obama is helped by his race, but that he wouldn't be there if he weren't black). She just sounds like the most misinformed opponent of affirmative action whining about black people taking what's rightfully hers. And that's very sad. Not to mention, the last thing Clinton needs is someone like Spitzer to remind the country of just how miserable it is to be held hostage by a sex scandal in public office by men whom their wives can't trust, much less their voters. Oh, and I the only one who is noticing out loud here that Mississippi voted more progressive in the primaries than New York state did? I lived in New York City and love it, but it is truly insulting that that state, and Ohio, and a handful of big states are supposed to negate Obama's lead across the country. It must be weird to be a Clinton and know that you're drawing a bigoted vote, even from people who don't want a black man to be president. Icky. You work all those years for that!?!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T16:58:09-06:00

ID

99382

Comment

Obama just picked up a major endorsement: Senator Barack Obama Receives Endorsement of Flag Officers from Army, Navy and Air Force CHICAGO—Citing his judgment and ability to lead, admirals and generals from the United States Army, Navy and Air Force that together have served under the last nine Commanders-in-Chief today announced their endorsement of Senator Barack Obama for president. In offering their endorsement, the generals and admirals recognized Obama's judgment to oppose the war in Iraq before it began, his respect for the Constitution and rule of law, his leadership on behalf of America's servicemen and women and his ability to conduct the diplomacy necessary to restore America's standing in the world. "Those of us who have served, worn the cloth of our nation, and gone into harm's way know that to be successful we must have the strongest sense of trust in our Commander in Chief. We must be confident that he or she has listened to the best possible advice, that he or she has garnered the best possible information from all possible sources, that he or she has analyzed and weighed all the possible consequences and outcomes, and that he or she has made the decision to exert military force as a last possible resort," said Admiral (Ret.) Robert "William" Williamson (USN). "Of this I am certain: Senator Obama will do all of those things and much more to ensure the safety and f reedom of our citizens, our allies, and coalition partners. He has all the great qualities and attributes required to carry out the most difficult duties of the Presidency. "I spent a career involved in coalition warfare, and I am keenly aware of the importance of working with allies," said Brigadier General (Ret.) James Smith (USAF). "Senator Obama brings a powerful approach to dealing with national security challenges by truly leveraging multinational relationships. He brings a new face of America to the rest of the world."

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-12T16:59:59-06:00

ID

99383

Comment

PEOPLE TELL ME WHAT DO YOU THE MISSISSIPPI DID FOR THE RACIAL DISCUSSION ACROSS AMERICA?

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-12T17:03:04-06:00

ID

99384

Comment

Not shabby, L.W. Now, NewJack, you need to slow on down so you don't lose some words as you go. And try some lowercase, and some punctuation. Then we'll know what you're saying. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T17:09:21-06:00

ID

99385

Comment

Also, be sure to look at the photos taken during the event. NewJack, are you asking how Mississippians affected the discussion of race in America because the media keeps bringing up how blacks and whites voted on Tuesday??

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-12T17:17:02-06:00

ID

99386

Comment

True Ladd, I just see that with the vote yesterday in Mississippi that race has been brought to the forefront of the election.

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-12T17:18:39-06:00

ID

99387

Comment

Donna, I'm shamefaced for not digging deeper before I responded. That makes a world more sense, but you're right... it's interesting to see so many people turn out to NOT vote McCain, and possibly cross lines to skew the Democratic nomination.

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2008-03-12T17:27:49-06:00

ID

99388

Comment

Yeah L W

Author

NewJackson

Date

2008-03-12T17:35:58-06:00

ID

99389

Comment

NewJack, although the media keeps taking about the whole 91% blacks for Obama/70% of white for Clinton thing, who could deny that a lot of whites voted for Obama? The racial mix of Obama supporters is a thing to behold, especially in this state. You were at the Obama rally, right? You saw a lot of whites there, didn't you? The proof is in the pudding.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-12T17:45:22-06:00

ID

99390

Comment

I was there and I saw a lot of whites there. As I said earlier in the thread, I've never seen so many white people on a black college campus in my life. I'm not kidding.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-03-12T19:42:08-06:00

ID

99391

Comment

Someone just sent me this from the Obama camp/verbatim: When we won Iowa, the Clinton campaign said it's not the number of states you win, it's "a contest for delegates." When we won a significant lead in delegates, they said it's really about which states you win. When we won South Carolina, they discounted the votes of African-Americans. When we won predominantly white, rural states like Idaho, Utah, and Nebraska, they said those didn't count because they won't be competitive in the general election. When we won in Washington State, Wisconsin, and Missouri -- general election battlegrounds where polls show Barack is a stronger candidate against John McCain -- the Clinton campaign attacked those voters as "latte-sipping" elitists. And now that we've won more than twice as many states, the Clinton spin is that only certain states really count. But the facts are clear. For all their attempts to discount, distract, and distort, we have won more delegates, more states, and more votes. Meanwhile, more than half of the votes that Senator Clinton has won so far have come from just five states. And in four of these five states, polls show that Barack would be a stronger general election candidate against McCain than Clinton. We're ready to take on John McCain. But we also need to build operations in places like Pennsylvania, Indiana, North Carolina, and Oregon that will hold their primaries in April and May. Barack Obama

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-03-12T20:33:14-06:00

ID

99392

Comment

Please know that O'Bama also had a substantial vote from OLD WHITE VOTERS, of which I am one. I don't know about the rest of the state, but I know about Jackson.

Author

jasp

Date

2008-03-12T20:52:52-06:00

ID

99393

Comment

I'm an old white guy from Madison, and I voted for Obama- and am excited by him becoming our next President! Race don't have a thing to do with it- he just seems to be the best natural born leader that has come along since I don't know when. The only other person voting when I was at the poll was another old white guy- don't know who he voted for, but it had to be a Democrat- he was at the same table as me! You should have seen the old ladies at the Republican table looking at us...

Author

Rico

Date

2008-03-12T21:11:23-06:00

ID

99394

Comment

I'll have to say, the white guys I've talked to today who voted democratic, voted Obama. But, as I said the metro area, and Jackson, are quite different than your rural democratic white male. But, I don't like the sweeping generalizations that white men don't vote black!

Author

pikersam

Date

2008-03-12T22:24:35-06:00

ID

99395

Comment

Ha, I talked to an older white man Tuesday who was trying to decide whether to vote like his wife wanted him to (Clinton) or vote for the one his head told him was the best candidate (Obama). And I talked to a couple of Repubs Monday; one of them wanted to vote for Clinton in the primary (because he was excited about being able to vote in a primary for once), but was going to vote Repub so he could catch the local primary); however, he was leaning toward Clinton in November. I was surprised at both these conversations.

Author

C.W.

Date

2008-03-13T06:26:49-06:00

ID

99396

Comment

From another thread: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Has anyone seen this article, Hillary and the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy - The strange case of conservative pundits and their love for Barack Obama? It is a very interesting read. See here: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374100,374100,2.html Posted by: blu_n_a_redstate on Mar 12, 08 | 10:11 pm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- blu, I can't thank you enough for that link. Y'all have GOT to read it. Wayne Barrett and his contributors really break down how the pundit puppetmasters have been at work to help stir up trouble during this campaign. Here's an example: Novak tried to poison the well by suggesting that the Clintons were dumping negative innuendos about Obama on donors and journalists like himself. "I have not talked to a single Republican in my reporting of attacks on Obama," he wrote, effectively outing his anonymous Clinton sources. He called Hillary's comments about the complementary roles of Martin Luther King and Lyndon Johnson a "race debate." Declaring that "Obamania reigns supreme," Novak said that the Clintons' tactics against Obama in late February had "yielded derisive laughter" among political professionals. But by March 1 and 3, his columns were decrying Obama's "horrible gaffe" on Louis Farrakhan and even discussing questions of merit regarding the Rezko relationship, citing suggestions that a controversial Iraqi billionaire had helped Obama buy his Chicago mansion, funneling the cash through friend and donor Rezko. Next thing you know, they'll be saying that Obama had something to do with 9/11 - if they're not already saying it. Posted by: L.W. on Mar 13, 08 | 7:35 am

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-03-13T06:44:32-06:00

ID

99397

Comment

Anybody read the Primary turnout triples forecast article in the C/L today? Even when they recant, they can't quite get it right. Add up the figures she quotes in the article. Even giving the C/L the benefit of the doubt and using the highest number estimated by Hoseman and the lowest number reported (according to which report you believe), you get a lot closer to 4x than 3x. Using the lowest estimate with the highest number reported, you get more than 4x. Averaging them both out, you get right at 4x. My math skills are not the best, but even I can do that math.

Author

C.W.

Date

2008-03-13T09:27:50-06:00