Jackson Free Press

So many of you are probably familiar with the case of statutory rape that singer R. Kelly is facing. So word is that Kelly and the underaged female are denying that they are the ones on the video (the one that caused all this drama). But now there's a new girl...third party, who says she was involved in a three-some with Kelly and the same girl.

What I want to know is, when can a girl decide for herself that she's ready for sex? My concern is that girls are not girls nowadays. They make grown up decisions to include having sex (frequently). So my question is why does this responsibilty lay on the man who may or may not know what this girls age is? Should the female be held just as accountable, say if she knows the man is over 18 and that she shouldn't be involved with him sexually? Who's responsibility is it? Is R. Kelly the sole person in this situation who should be facing charges?

Previous Comments

ID

129569

Comment

Agreed. As silly as it sounds, not holding the female involved accountable is sexist (on both ends of the spectrum--assuming the male is a predator and assuming the female is weak), and in my opinion poor policy (hi, I'm a loop-hole that allows for manipulation of the legal system for personal gain). This reminds me of the case Genarlow Wilson--he was 17 when he hooked up with a 15 year old girl. He was charged with aggravated child molestation, given 10 years without parole, and (I may be wrong) forced to register as a sex offender. The Georgia Supreme Court ruled the sentence to be "cruel and unusual punishment." Kind of crazy how age is changing as a construct, but our legal view is staying the same.

Author

vince

Date

2008-05-09T18:56:35-06:00

ID

129570

Comment

So my question is why does this responsibilty lay on the man who may or may not know what this girls age is? Should the female be held just as accountable, say if she knows the man is over 18 and that she shouldn't be involved with him sexually? Who's responsibility is it? Is R. Kelly the sole person in this situation who should be facing charges? I think both should be held accountable. If the girl lied about her age or manipulated the guy in some way, she needs to be punished in some way, although I'm not sure how. Teenagers think they're adults, but the truth is that their brains are not fully developed yet, so their level of judgment is questionable. I think that if the girl did manipulate the guy, his punishment should be less severe than if he was the one seducing her. However, my fear is that the guy could lie and say that she lied to or seduced him in order to get a lesser sentence.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-05-10T02:02:12-06:00

ID

129588

Comment

Like my Dad said, "It takes two to tango." Charge 'em both.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-05-10T13:11:27-06:00

ID

129597

Comment

I think that people are shadowed in their judgements of just how to measure maturity. I don't think a man should be held accountable for an act that he has participated in after being lied to or ignorant of. I mean even God doesn't hold an ignorant soul accountable....so why do we?

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T08:13:34-06:00

ID

129626

Comment

i disagree…at no point should any person not know the age of the person theyre having sex with…see its like this…i know this guy who met this chic at a car wash…he spoke to her and they began to converse…so one night (late as hell as he tells me this story…i think it was…i mean he says that it was damn near 4 a.m.) he picks her up and they go to breakfast…my guy says he just looked at her under the light and saw that something was going on…he hadnt asked about her age until he looked at her critically…then he did and she lied…he left it alone, but then she said that she was like 17…he took her home and never spoke to her again… adults have to be held to higher standards…male or female…and i wish that we could deny the age of a person…but honestly, i saw the tape…she didn’t look 18…her breasts werent even developed like a womans…ive seen my fair share and I can tell you that woman was a girl…you just know… when them clothes come off the reality sets in…too often, in my experience…men see the clothed woman and desire…the lack of men in the lives of these young women impacts them more than we care to acknowledge…the lack of love on the inside seeks the affection on the outside…and sorry men…seek this out and attempt to use this to have sex with these girls…they just see them as toys…its sad…r. kelly should be in jail… i belive that a woman that is not 5 years younger than you is too young… …now women on the other hand…should be treated differently…i mean i want my son to have a cougar…his mom and i cant “prepare” him for “everything”…lmao…if he is anything like me he will need some training…and some new shoes…and a sense of style…and you know, a whole lot of help…

Author

skipp

Date

2008-05-12T12:52:07-06:00

ID

129632

Comment

I agree largely with Skipp. Children are children and shouldn't be held to the standards of adults. A man or woman gotta make sure or face the consequences. If you're an adult man or woman and want a child as a sex toy, you're a sorry piece of trash that needs locking up or beaten or shot.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-12T13:33:27-06:00

ID

129633

Comment

Hold up yall this is crazy. Now there are plenty of girls that you can't just "look at" under good lighting and determine their age. Trust me, I was one. And I'm not saying that guys should not be careful and hell possibly even wait until they spend more time with the young girl to give evidence of her age before committing a sexual act. However, I don't get how a man who has no reason to believe this is an underaged girl, asks and gets lied to, can be held solely accountable. Again, girls now a days understand that this is statutory rape. They understand the consequences and some of them may choose to "pull the wool" over the guys eyes. Those particular girls should share in accountability. I am a woman, I can look at a female and determine their experience which usually leads to a round about figure on their age...but I doubt very seriously that a man, never having been a young girl, can easily make that determination.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T13:38:27-06:00

ID

129635

Comment

queen...im sure you know...the reality of being a fully developed girl...i dont know...but im telling you...as a man...i can look at a woman and tell you if she is legal...im sure that she is fine...but she aint legal... im serious... queen...men are not nearly as smart as women... but men are not as stupid as we pretend to be...so let it be known...these sorry jokers know they being lied to...and these girls are lying for the trinkets these sorry jokers give them

Author

skipp

Date

2008-05-12T13:53:04-06:00

ID

129641

Comment

Okay point taken. So tell me why this problem even exists. Is it because men don't care in that moment? I saw the alledged tape of R. Kelly and the girl in the tape clearly looked under 18. But that isn't always the case. I see girls every day that look way growner than they are. And I suppose with a little bit of common sense a man should be able to make that determination. However, even so, the girl who participates in this action knowingly shouldn't just be let off the hook. I mean maybe they shouldn't be held at a regard as high as the adult male, but they shouldn't be free of accountability either. Because they are mature enough to know that they are participating in an unlawful act. They are willingly giving sexual consent. So, therefore, I don't buy the excuse of she's just a child. If she's having sex, then she should be accountable for being responsible when making sexual decisions. You're right, I believe what you are saying and the adult male should by all means face consequences. But I just don't think it's teaching the girl a lesson by just letting her off the hook either. I know girls that prey on drunk, horney dudes who will buy into whatever age they tell them....to me they are accessories to the crime...and should be treated as such.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T14:17:30-06:00

ID

129643

Comment

Skipper, for all your obvious intelligence my brother I sometimes marvel at your naivete':-). As one (myself)who doesnt go out that often just to party and you being one who also doesnt frequent the usual clubs or haunts around this town, its easier said than done in this climate. And as a woman, Id have to agree with Queen. If youre talking 12 saying she's 15 or 16 (or even 18)..then sure there may be some key giveaways but unless youve been under a rock,there are some 15 year olds who look and act every bit of 18 or older. and NO its not THAT easy to tell. Unless you're asking for Photo I.D., birth cerificate, and having them fill out a waiver, you can get caught up. Period. You simply must be more cautious and a lot more responsible when going out these days. Its scary. Especially as an artist Im paranoid. a gaze, a bump, or a friendly hello after an autograph could lead to stat rape charges. Yes men are stupid..and YES some of them are THAT stupid! not all but some. As the father of a mature looking teen(who lied about her age on myspace once and was summarily thrashed for it), I know the predators are out there. I have the necessary artillery for JUST such an occasion lol. But to the trixters that exist..as it was said earlier..it takes two to tango..and in those cases BOTH parties should be reprimanded with the Adult getting the harsher penalty.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-05-12T14:28:59-06:00

ID

129644

Comment

I likewise believe the girl should pay in some way no matter her age and circumstances.If whoring, so to speak, to keep from starving or to get immediately needed funds to pay for food or shelter for self, child or disable elderly person, I would sentence to counseling and hook her up with a job or the right agency to handle those immediate needs. If doing it just to hustle money for luxuries or as a illegal business for high profits I might confine while educating on the dangers of such activity and force to finish school and seek a legal trade and profession. If none of this works I'll get harder until an adult then treat like an adult. It's amazing the damage done to women by the lack of fathers or good male role models. The girl is likely hurt just as much as the boy by the lack of protection, love, self-esteem and training that come from a father, a good father not a piece of worthless trash pretending to be a father, although sadly a piece of father maybe better than none.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-12T14:29:46-06:00

ID

129646

Comment

Well said, I couldn't have said it better myself. Furthermore to add to your point Walt, it's so easy to blame responsible actions or lack there of on a missing father. It's a woman's responsibility to teach a daughter how to be a responsible young lady. First of all, the let me be your friend attitude that these mothers are trying so hard to engage in with their daughters has got to cease. Secondly, young girls immitate that which they see. You are not hardly going to find a girl out there participating and orchestrating these types of situations on dudes unless it is a familiar one to them. They've likely seen actions such as this from family, friends and/or their own mothers. We can't expect our daughters to learn to respect themselves if they cant find it in them to respect their mothers. It's just not going to happen. That's why the cycle continues. Sure a father being around could assist in giving a male point of view on how a lady should and shouldn't act. But ultimately a woman is the only true role model a girl has. It is up to us to show them proper ways to act and teach them to have enough respect for themselves so that doing this for money and that for luxuries is not necessary nor is it admirable. It's up to the women.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T14:40:34-06:00

ID

129647

Comment

I agree Queen. However, I know lots of women who never met their fathers or never had any relationship with them. These women have deep resentment toward men and can barely talk about that man without crying. Some of the same type look to mates to give them what a father never did. All of the women I know who had strong loving fathers turned out to have a good concept of self and what a man is supposed to be and do. I know for a fact that players, hustlers and pimps look for women without fathers to prey on. They know they're the easiest to pray on because there is a void there that only a good father or good male role model could fill. Mothers and fathers are supposed to play different roles. Both are needed.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-12T14:49:44-06:00

ID

129648

Comment

Hmmmm, that's interesting Walt. So I wonder which one I am...since I didn't have my father around after the age of 13....Maybe I should ponder....

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T14:51:50-06:00

ID

129649

Comment

And i agree that both parents are needed. But you do know that this is not a usual occurance in black communities today right. I think I can count on one hand the people I know who have and were raised in two parent homes. And it's even worse these days than it was back in the day. So, that being said and recognizing that it's not the norm, then what???? How do we adapt to ensure that girls are taught to be upstanding young ladies and men are taught to be men? Is it even possible? Are we just headed for a society that is filled with resentment or distress in one way or the other?

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T14:54:27-06:00

ID

129650

Comment

The single parent/teenage pregnancy rate is the biggest obstacle facing the black community, in my opinion. Does anyone foresee this trend reversing?

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2008-05-12T14:59:20-06:00

ID

129651

Comment

Extended family like in theold days. I'm already primed to play a good or probably overly generous grandfather to 4 grandkids. I have already basically been it to 2 of them. My grandaughter looks to and treats me like her daddy when she's around me. So too does one of my grandsons and the 3rd one is well on his way of doing the same thing. The last one is 2 years old and I already know I will have to step in there too, sooner or later, else risk them not having a good role model who cares for them. I will do all that i can and hope it makes a difference, and further hope I don't go broke or die forom over work in the meantime. I don't know of any grandfather who has spent the money I've spent although the children don't live with me. My son is away and was away financially and otherwise even when he was present.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-12T15:02:53-06:00

ID

129652

Comment

Walt you are one in a million. You situation is not the norm in our community. Most kids don't know who their grandfathers are because their grandmothers don't know. If they have no grandfather, there is a great chance, not in all cases, but some - that the cycle will repeat and they will not know their father either. Didn't you read the blog LW posted about the men shortage? :-) Reximus, I say that you're right, but there are many other obstacles too. Like unemployment, aids, drug addiction.....on and on. But yes, single parent homes and teenage pregnancy is a big problem.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T15:07:28-06:00

ID

129653

Comment

well old man...i can tell you this...if i see a chic that says she is 18...im 28...too young...if you keep the 3/5 year rule in play...you typically have nothing to worry about... i dont believe that there are some 16 years running around jackson preying on poor defenseless 30 year-old men...not buying it at all.. queen you know as a woman what that entails...i dont...but honestly anyone that cares should know when a chic is too young to be bothered with... see i remember being in high school...all the fine chics were dating dudes at jackson state or tougaloo...that was the dumbest thing ever to me...why would a dude at JSU date the chic in my government class...its easy...theyre lames... yall wanna talk about all of these inadvertent situations...the everyday reality is these lames ride around and try to get anything that looks female with an abundance of tna...she is 16 and hurting…yeah she was wrong but this is all she knows…its not an apology…it’s the reality…i worked at youth court and saw too many situations…too often it was common to see children raising themselves…they wanna have fun and ease the hurt…so they do what makes them feel good… the last time i went out was at the Nappy Roots show…this girl was not 18 was scantily clad at the door…fine yes…jail bait absolutely…i saw her in a car under the bridge…did dude know…cant say…did he care, couldn’t have… rex please offer us more of your insight into how to fix the black community…

Author

skipp

Date

2008-05-12T15:22:22-06:00

ID

129654

Comment

I would think that all (or most) of the other obstacles are directly related to the home situation, though.

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2008-05-12T15:23:30-06:00

ID

129655

Comment

I don't see that changing Rex or the drug problem/situation unless and until it has the same effect on the white race. Looks like the influence of rap may be declining. If I can save my grandchildren from failing and causing me pain I'll be fairly happy. But I'm not limiting my concerns or efforts to do what I can to just my family. The black race will fail despite my efforts to stop failure, not because of my efforts to aid failure or my paralysis.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-12T15:35:06-06:00

ID

129657

Comment

When we were slaves the black church was there helping people learn to read even though it was illegal. During the Civil Rights movement, black churches were on the frontlines. Too many churches are preaching prosperity gospel (Jesus wants you to have a caddy?) rather than doing as Jesus would do and serving as that extended family providing parenting to the parentless and hope to the hopeless. Despite his faults, we need more black churches to do outreach ministries to the children who need mentors, the unemployed and those with AIDs as does Rev. Wright's church. The so-called prosperity gospel might as well be called a gospel of the Pharisees.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-05-12T16:01:38-06:00

ID

129658

Comment

Skip you are going to the extreme. No body here is saying that dudes should not be held accountable...especially in situations like the example you mentioned. But what I am saying is that it is too easy to just say the girl is young, she doesn't know any better. That is NOT fixing the issue because she may not know as much as the adult male, but she isn't a fool either. She knew she had to lie in the first place in order to reassure him that it was okay to have sex with her. That was intent. She lied knowing that the action was improper. You are fooling yourself, my brother if you are unwilling to accept that it is fact that there are young women out there who are preying on these men just as much as the fellaz you mentioned preying on them. For whatever the reason, no daddy, no mommy, no money, no love....whatever....it happens and they are the ones that need as Walt mentioned previously some sort of corrective action. No maybe not jail time (and of course a man should receive jail time - especially the creeps your talking about) but they still WILL NOT LEARN HOW TO ACT if they are never chastised for participating in acts such as this. you think the girl under the bridge didn't know she shouldn't have been there? Commo now, in todays society where sex is everywhere, it is up to us to teach these children the proper and respectful way to carry themselves. Sure, we are failing them. But we can correct that by making both parties accountable for their actions....not just the guy - who "could be" innocent and well intentioned. Every guy who has sex with an under aged girl is not like the one you mentioned above. Not in the least.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T16:02:52-06:00

ID

129659

Comment

Whitley you might have a point there. But we gotta get folks to church before the church can minister to them.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T16:04:25-06:00

ID

129661

Comment

You're right Queen. Maybe churches could get them in if they were'nt so materialist. I heard that one Sunday Rev. Wright asked the unemployed people in church to stand up and half the audience stood. Obviously, they were not afraid that they were going to be made to feel bad if they could not give. Someone mentioned this earlier and it seems to have gotten lost. Queen's post is about R Kelly. Someone said the girl in that video did not look mature. I saw it and she sure did not look mature. For me, IF that was him, then he is guilty! IF she was 13, THEN he was wrong and needs to be punished because she was too young to consent. THERE is some plausible evidence that this was not his first offense --- that he was with Aaliyah when she was underage. IF he has a track record of messing with underage girls, THEN he needs to plead insanity (the "young girls drive me crazy" defense!).

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-05-12T16:14:11-06:00

ID

129663

Comment

I read last week that Karl Malone (former NBA great) has a son that was selected in the NFL draft recently. Apparently, the two had only recently met. Someone did the math and determined that the kid's mom was either 12 or 13 when she gave birth. That's just disgusting.

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2008-05-12T16:21:49-06:00

ID

129664

Comment

Well Skipper, using your formula, I would have never graced this earth. My father is 8 years older than my mom (and I had BOTH parents in the home)..She was a college student at JSU. He was in the service(Army). You cant legislate this issue by YOUR individual standards. what of a 18 year old that has a 15 year old girlfriend? What of a 27 year old grad student dating a college junior after they met on campus. Ive dated younger women..just happened to occur. I didnt go looking for a particular age. Some men like younger women..and dem Cougars like younger men lol. It happens. As long as its not a guy over 21 yrs old lurching after a teen 16 yrs old or younger then he can live lol. What happens when a woman is 21?? does the person she fall in love with have to be her age and not over 25? What if she falls in love with a 30 yr old??..is he lame? No! We're solely talking about predators and those "lames" 21 and older that find it easier to bed naive teenagers 17 and younger. And there STILL should be punishment on both sides in those instances if the sex was consensual or the woman misrepresented herself.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-05-12T16:27:42-06:00

ID

129665

Comment

Karl was only 19 when the baby was conceived though. NOt that that's an excuse but it sounds better. Now let me say this so I can get it on out the way. I LOVE R. KELLY. I am probably one of his biggest fans. Well, I am a huge fan of his art and his music. But I will be the very first to say that man has some serious problems. He wasn't just fooling around with Aaliyah, he married her. And he has been dealing with this problem for a long time, with many different girls. He for one is the poster child for a man with a sickness. The girl in the video did not look like a woman in the face and her body was not even developed fully. She was without any doubt too young to give consent for sex...but if it is him....then I am not surprised that she did it...he's R. Kelly. Who wouldn't take that chance? :-0 I think he needs a psychological evaluation and maybe some help in that way. Because he clearly has an unhealthy attraction to young girls. Problem is, I don't think he can control it. I think he is unable to stop this...kinda like a seial killer. He's the poster child for a statutory rapist, as much as I hate to say it....and boy, do i hate to say it.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T16:30:07-06:00

ID

129666

Comment

Most men date younger women because they are not able to attract older women because women their age want men that are older. you guys are really fighting a loosing battle, because if you get with a young girl and she's too young you have a problem on your hands. If you get with an older woman, you still got a problem on your hands. I feel sorry for you guys. I have never in my life dated a man my age. I was one of those girls Skip mentioned that dated college guys in high school. I don't know what they wanted with me....no idea. I know it wasn't the same as what I wanted from them. But I wasn't a fool either. I knew what it took to keep an older man....and so does these girls today...and I hate to tell you this but they are willing to do it...until their mother catches them, then they were forced. Or by then it doesn't matter because the mother is mad and thinks her daughter has been taken advantage of. Typically that is not the case. If the daughter gives consent, then that should just be that. Bottome line. And of course I am not talking kids like 12 years old. But when you get to about 14 or 15, kids know more than you think they do. Do yall not remember being that age?

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-12T16:36:15-06:00

ID

129671

Comment

Hmm, should I go there? Okay, I shall... I didn't date until I was in college and 18 because I didn't want to be a teen mom. No one told me to do it - it was my own personal decision. I only dated twice. The first guy was a year or two older, so no big deal. The relationship didn't last long because I was on "lockdown". As for the second guy, here's the kicker - HE lied to ME about his age. When I met him, he looked like a freshmen. I asked him his age, and he told me he was 24. Okay, not too bad, I thought. Well, after dating him for a few weeks, I happened to see a document of his that showed his real age: 27. I was in shock because to me the dude looked younger than me! Well, that relationship didn't last much longer either (I played crazy and he dumped me), and I am so glad I remained on "lockdown" because Lord knows what my dad would have done to him if he knocked me up. My father is a seasoned hunter. :-)

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-05-12T17:26:11-06:00

ID

129673

Comment

a 19 yr old guy w/ a 12 yr old girl will cease being sick and disgusting right about never. And is this trial about the video of R Kelly taking a leak on the girl? What's NOT sick about that?

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2008-05-12T17:28:14-06:00

ID

129678

Comment

**I was in shock because to me the dude looked younger than me! Well, that relationship didn't last much longer either (I played crazy and he dumped me), and I am so glad I remained on "lockdown" because Lord knows what my dad would have done to him if he knocked me up. My father is a seasoned hunter. :-)** --L.W. 5/12 @ 6:28 pm LOL, L.W., that is funny! Saying "my father is a seasoned hunter" is a nice way of saying, "Boy, you knocked my daughter up so now I'm gonna take your a-- down...and out!" LOL.

Author

Kacy

Date

2008-05-12T19:33:41-06:00

ID

129679

Comment

look...yall wanna act like this is just as much of the girl as it is the guy…i don’t buy it…my mother taught me that men are responsible…they make decisions and like with the consequences or rewards… if you 16 and sleeping around with some 22 year old dude because he thinks youre 18…maybe…well were talking about r.kelly…dude is/was 30 at filming of HIS video…o o o o o (don’t nobody look that much like r.kelly) the point is this… if youre sleeping with a woman…it is your job to make sure that she is legal…ask for id…get her to buy you a drink…something… is she responsible…sure, but what can you do to her…she needs more help than any situation that has been proposed can provide…maybe you guys don’t understand…im sure you do…when i was 15…i was pretty mature…i thought about much more than my peers…however, i can only think about how dumb i was at 20…forget 16…at 28…i still think im pretty stupid, but a 16 year old girl…you guys should see how stupid some of these 19 year old men are…but the girl…just needs more help…what the guy is doing is hurting her more than you guys can imagine…she needs help… the guy doesn’t need 30 years but, hell…he knows better…so does she but he should be held to carry the burden…r.kelly is 30…he isn’t some horny 18 year old dude

Author

skipp

Date

2008-05-12T19:36:14-06:00

ID

129681

Comment

LOL, L.W., that is funny! Saying "my father is a seasoned hunter" is a nice way of saying, "Boy, you knocked my daughter up so now I'm gonna take your a-- down...and out!" LOL. Yep, Kacy, and he's a veteran. Ka-POW. :-) :-)

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-05-12T20:25:26-06:00

ID

129687

Comment

Let's get the facts right now, Kellz is well over 30, probably closer to 40 (I think he's 41). But anyway, that is exactly my point, the girl NEEDS to be held accountable for her part in the act - if she has lied to get this dude in the sack or to get his money (or whatever). She's guilty as well, but moreso than that, if she is not aware of the affects of her actions, then she still should be counseled or something as to not create a path towards being a gold digger. Yes men lie to LW. I didn't really consider that. But now that you mention it, I've been lied to a time or two by a guy who knew he was too old to be trying to date me, but also knew, most likely that I wouldn't be interested in someone closer to my age. So it does work in both directions.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T07:53:18-06:00

ID

129691

Comment

I disagree, Queen. The overwhelming majority of the blame here falls squarely in the lap of the one who is an ADULT. As such, dude should have a better grasp of the difference between right and wrong than some star-struck kid.

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2008-05-13T08:26:52-06:00

ID

129700

Comment

Yeah, I agree with that in the case of R. Kelly...you are absolutely correct. However, i still think that the young girl, even being star struck is capable of making an informed decision about having sex,even with a super(duper) star like Kelly. It seems like to me that the guys here are thinking way too little about the capacity of the young woman to be a party to this type of thing. I mean it just sounds like yall think these are little girls who have no idea what they are doing. Like the adult males are solely at fault. Like the girls have no part in the wrongness. That's just simply not the case. It may not be in every situation where a guy has sex with an underaged girl. But there are plenty (PLEASE TRUST ME) of underaged girls out there who KNOW exactly what they are doing and do it to be criminal. That may be hard for you to believe if you are a father or grandfather and can't see your baby being that way, but it so happens...you must know that. I'm not excusing the men, but I'm not excusing all girls either. It's just like rape. It's nothing for a girl to cry rape because she's cheating and gets caught, or the guy doesn't want to have anything else to do with her, or the guy has money (ie. Kobe Bryant)...etc. That doesn't mean she was raped because she says so....it could very possibly mean that she just got caught. The difference in these situations is very minimal.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T09:20:38-06:00

ID

129702

Comment

I missed the question up there about the R. Kelly trial. The trial is about the girl being underaged, not about "the leak". I mean it's relative to the entire case...but not JUST about that. R. Kelly is wrong for this...I know. As I said before, he has a history of committing this act and thus, should be punished. However, I hope they let him keep recording cuz I certainly will still buy his music. I know many won't, but I will because I think he is unable to stop himself. He needs help. Not making excuses for my favorite entertainer, either, just stating my opinion.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T09:25:58-06:00

ID

129708

Comment

I strongly disagree with the statement that "it's nothing for a girl to cry rape," especially when we are talking about young women. Now SAYING rape may be nothing, but actually going to the ER after the rape, getting on the stand where her "reputation" will be challenged and everything else involved with the legal system are very much something, and it takes a brave person to pursue those charges. Actually prosecuting someone on rape charges are not as easy as someone "crying." Only ONE in four women who are raped even press charges, and of those pressed and charged, statistics show that about one in three of us are attacked at some point in our lives. I don't think rape is anything a woman or the legal system, on the whole, take lightly. I also disagree that as a whole, underaged girls are the predators in these situations. I wish I had more time to blog about this case, but I just wanted to add today that this discussion of blaming the victim is a very dangerous one for our young women. Also, who is letting underage girls into a club??? Is that not a huge liability issue?

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T09:38:46-06:00

ID

129716

Comment

Emily I hate to tell you this, but there are hundreds of women in the world who "cry rape" when they have given total consent to have sex. MANY MANY! Now, I never said there were no women who were really raped or that all women who say they've been raped haven't been. That's ridiculous. I merely mentioned that sometimes women say they were raped when they were NOT raped at all. It's not taking it lightly. I feel just as strongly as do about a woman being robbed of her right to consent to sex...however, the point is that their is a thin line and sometimes it gets crossed. Underaged girls get into clubs every weekend! Do you go to clubs? Ever been to the upper level or to the bird land? Do you know anyone who has been to those clubs? Trust me, there are clubs where underaged girls can get into. This is not science. Also, as mentioned earlier in this blog, the point of this is NOT to blame young girls. BUT it is to say that they should have some accountability for their participation and should not be lead to believe that it is okay to pretend to be a certain age to have sex with a man who she SHOULD NOT BE LEGALLY HAVING SEX WITH and knowing it. From your posts I don't think you are aware that this even happens and IT DOES very much so. Every single case of rape is not rape! Every single case of underaged sex is NOT committed by a pervert dude like R. Kelly. Sometimes things are not as they seem Emily. you can't just go around saying okay you say you were raped, you were. Okay you say you told him you were 13, you did nothing wrong. It's not as simple as that. It's not as cut and dry as that. And what's more damaging in my opinion is to not catch this behavior in time enough for the young girl to correct it. Accepting it will only lead to a problem in her future. It's not exactly "blaming" the victim as much as it is accepting her wrong doings and offering assistance to provide a better path. I know that you work closely with young females and that you are touched by their personal lives but in the grand scheme of things you deal with students at ONE school in Jackson...there are many kids who don't even go to school Emily. They are not fortunate enough to have a teacher like you who actually cares. So what for them? I hardly think that you've even come in contact with the type of girls that I'm talking about and if you have I don't see where you'd know it unless you ask them and then you run the risk of being lied to. There is a whole other world out there and totally different kinds of attitudes. One of which is a girl that thrives on being in situations like this....looking for a come up. No NOT ALL GIRLS who are say they've been raped fall into this category, but some of them do. Those are the ones I'm talking about.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T11:05:29-06:00

ID

129735

Comment

BUT it is to say that they should have some accountability for their participation and should not be lead to believe that it is okay to pretend to be a certain age to have sex with a man who she SHOULD NOT BE LEGALLY HAVING SEX WITH and knowing it.-queen Seriously queen, i don’t understand…how can you punish a woman who uses her body to get trinkets??? what can society say or do??? these young girls are not doing this(i hope) to get some dude locked up…they are doing it to participate in the economy…they wanna consume and in this environment, tna is a commodity that too many people are willing to pay top dollar for…what should they be punished for??? filing a false report, the dude was misled but ignorance of the law is not a defense…hell i cant think of much else…but at the end of the day it is still a mans’ responsibility to find out her age… One of which is a girl that thrives on being in situations like this....looking for a come up. -queen so what can we do to punish her…honestly…she just cant…she is hurting…punishing her is only treating the symptoms…not the disease… Those are the ones I'm talking about.-queen Well queen…how do we tell them apart???

Author

skipp

Date

2008-05-13T13:24:48-06:00

ID

129736

Comment

Skipp, if a female is under 18 it's illegal. The rest of your argument is moot.

Author

Ironghost

Date

2008-05-13T13:29:07-06:00

ID

129738

Comment

I am dumbfounded by the fact that this is so new and boggling to you guys. Really. WOW! I don't know what else I can say.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T13:35:19-06:00

ID

129739

Comment

This seems pretty simple to me. If a girl is underage, regardless of whether she is the seducer or the seductee, it is ILLEGAL. I have no doubt that there are girls who try to seduce older men for whatever reason, but if the guy doesn't want to go to jail then he should make sure the girl is of age. It doesn't make it any less illegal or wrong even if the underage girl is the one pushing for it.

Author

ellen

Date

2008-05-13T13:52:34-06:00

ID

129740

Comment

Have to agree with IG...if its under 18(and I think it may be 16 in MS)..its illegal. Period. The rest is just a person's opinion or preference. Sometimes its for money. Sometimes its simply for sport. there's not always a money transaction jumping off then or later. However, if it indeed a false pretense situation. There should be some semblance of accountability on the female's part. Other than asking or shaking em down and going through their purse or pockets. A man has to pretty much take a female's word. they can ask. Pry. But again unless you take herr to vital records and have her birth certificate pulled. You're floating out there..alooooone buddy. Maybe go ask her mom...or some of her friends..dunno. But its a slippery slope. And again, as an artist out here frequenting these places Im scared to death! cuz regardless if I touch em or not..If im accuse. Im arrested. Plastered on the front page of metro and rep destroyed.. and it all could be because I didnt speak to someone or give out my cell number. trust me. It happens. the law has to protect the kids and the innocent YES. But Everbody needs some protection.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-05-13T14:01:13-06:00

ID

129741

Comment

Emily is giving solid legal advice up there. Maybe I'm Bambi in the forest here, but what would help with the identification problem is to slow the rush to conquest. Take some time to get the know the person. Ask where she works and see if things add up. If she is working somewhere during school hours and drives, then you know there is a good chance she is most likely of minimum adequate age.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-05-13T14:08:08-06:00

ID

129743

Comment

I agree with ellen. The point I'm trying to make is to those young girls who participate willingly to deceiving the man, I would like to see them learn by whatever means necessary that it is not proper to act in such a fashion. I am not comparing their youth and inexperience to that of an adult male. What I am saying is that it should not be excused when it's done intentionally and although some of you are not aware or do not agree, there are girls who do this for several different reasons and they KNOW that it is wrong, but they bank on attitudes such as been displayed here to say, well, she's a child, she didn't know, he should have known better. That could be the case. But the fact is, the girl should be held to some form of accountability. Not necessarily punishment per se. Not necessarily as harsh as the adult. But they should be made aware that this is not recommended behavior. That's all I'm saying here. And Whitley you certainly have a point. Most of the time in settings when this occurs, the passion is so high that neither the dude or the female even takes time to think about maybe this person is too young or too old. But as Kaze states, this isn't something to just let happen because if could end up real bad for the fella. But the girl is always innocent. And that's a mistake in my opinion.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T14:25:48-06:00

ID

129745

Comment

I agree, Queen, that young girls who are promiscuous and try to convince adult men to have sex with them should definitely get some kind of therapy before they end up pregnant, raped, or with an STD. There is no doubt about that.

Author

ellen

Date

2008-05-13T14:43:24-06:00

ID

129746

Comment

Yes, Yes, Yes, that is the Queen's point. Thanks Ellen....

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T15:15:24-06:00

ID

129747

Comment

I don't go to clubs, but I don't think that makes me unqualified to speak the facts on women and violence :) I don't want to go that "you don't know because you aren't there" route on this one. I'd be interested in any research that states courts of law have prosecuted a substantial number of rape cases based just upon what a woman says. A court of law for the most part requires physcial evidence, and in the cases of statutory rape, the girl is usually carrying a child, and paternity can be proven. Unless someone was dumb enough to put it on video too. More on that later. Of course what's real about rape/statutory rape are not the sensationalized and/or celebrity cases that we talk about. There are women who are raped who don't go to the club. There are women who are raped who do. There are women who are raped who don't go to school. There are women who are raped who do. Rape is a cultural universal, and it is very damaging to both women and our society as a whole. That's not to say there is not huge media backlash when someone does "cry" rape. Or for cases that are tried in the media and not in the courtroom. I love you girl, but I do NOT love it when I'm told or alluded to that I'm unqualified or my voice is not important and point to my profession or whiteness. I'm a woman. Period. No place, culture, et al owns the rape experience. Yes, I'm a teacher. But please don't forget that I also have the life experience of a woman. Period. Teacher, mother, friend, sister and much, much more. Certainly more than I'm going to go into again. Again, I think it's a dangerous discussion if we don't remember the real issue that is violence against women. It's dangerous because we've had too many women for too long whose voices have been quieted for false rape claims to be significant. It's dangerous because for much of world history, the burden of sexual decisions have been placed on women as if it's always the woman's fault. Remember it was not too long ago that women were discredited on the witness stand for not wearing underwear. So if she'd just worn underwear, she would not have been attacked. It's a slippery slope. And I'm sorry, but R. Kelly was caught on video peeing on a CHILD several years back. I'm not going to bend over backwards giving that man the benefit of the doubt. He's a grown man. He'll be alright. I think we really underestimate men and really belittle them when we think they can't think with anything beyond the southern hemisphere. There is much beyond appearance that attracts, or should attract, a man and a woman. She may *look* legal, but she's not. And for the record, I hold an equal distaste and lack of respect for women have relationships with underage men. That happens too, and that also is statutory rape, and there are many cases where we have seen women go to prison for that as well. Adults have a responsibility to not get in bed with minors. No excuses.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T15:16:00-06:00

ID

129748

Comment

And one quick short post to say: Don't point to who I am or what I do to say I cannot speak, or that what I have to say is not important, true, et al....

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T15:22:24-06:00

ID

129749

Comment

Emily I think you may have missed my point. This is not to belittle women who are raped. This isn't even about rape. It's only about young girls who manipulate situations with adult men in order to have sex. This is about the adult male getting a stiff sentence and the young girl getting nothing. My point is as ellen mentioned above, young girls who do this type of thing, should be held accountable in some fashion. I agree that adults should have responsibilty...that's without question. I just don't think that it does this society, the young woman or the man any good to let the girl who willingly participated or even orchestrated a situation like this, to get off free. They should learn that this is not the way a respectable woman should act. We should train them for they clearly lack this training. I honestly think we are talking about two different things. I'm not arguing about rape, and victims of rape. I am again merely suggesting that the girls who do this should be held accountable for their participation in this. Not JUST the man. And my love for you and your love for me doesn't mean that we have to agree. Honestly your post makes me think that maybe you have not seen situations like what I'm talking about. I could be wrong but it just seems like to me that you're telling me that what I'm saying about young girls doesn't exist. And since I KNOW that it does, I can only come to the conclusion that maybe you haven't met anyone who has conducted themselves in this manner. That's not saying you aren't a woman, Em. That's just saying that maybe you haven't been around these kinds of women. That's all. Didn't mean for you to take it like that....but it is what it is. I find that I'm retyping the same thing over and over again, so i'll chill on that part of the discussion.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T15:27:37-06:00

ID

129750

Comment

Okay Em, something I said made you take my post personal, real personal, and i didn't mean for it to go there. I honestly didn't mean to offend you character, your job, or your experiences. So whatever that was, charge it to my typing not my heart. Seems like you're telling me that this doesn't exist, the man should be the only one held accountable. I simply disagree with that. That's all.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T15:30:08-06:00

ID

129752

Comment

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T15:38:18-06:00

ID

129753

Comment

Don't point to who I am or what I do to say I cannot speak, or that what I have to say is not important, true, et al.... -----emilyb You know, I really have no idea what you're talking about on this one. I'm slightly offended by it, but since I haven't any clue what you're talking about, I'll just apologise for whatever I said to make you think that way.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T15:39:32-06:00

ID

129754

Comment

Again with the insults. I didn't miss your point. I just said it's a dangerous discussion. I undersand you are speaking of young women, manipulation, he gets time, she doesn't...I get that. Of course women should be held accountable if they lie, but my concern is if we criminalize a "lie," which is not as cut and dry as say, seman and paternity, it will deter those who are already scared to speak, to prosecute, etc. At this point, I would say it is less dangerous and much easier for a grown man to go through a trial and court proeceedings than it is for women to have yet another deterrent to pressing charges. There are enough deterrents as it is: fear of retaliation, fear of having personal life picked apart in court, so on and so on. It just seems much easier for me for men to use caution and be very wary and careful of getting in bed with women you don't know. Not good for the one night stand, but that's a choice. It might be time for responsible men to check their women as carefully as women are socialized to do for their own protection :) I'm not going to reply anymore regarding who I am, what kind of women I know and other stereotypes. That's bullshit.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T15:41:15-06:00

ID

129755

Comment

This discussion has entered(or maybe it started with) some dangerous territory. There's a reason that children can't vote, buy alcohol or live without adult supervision. They are not intellectually or emotionally equipped to do so. This argument about children luring adult men into inappropriate relationships is akin to the it-was-her-fault because she was raped argument. As an adult, it's my responsibility to make sure I'm not sleeping with a child. I'm sorry, it's not that hard to find out or figure out. If you must sleep with someone the same night you meet them then you've put yourself at a number of different risks and I'm not feeling sorry about that. I've been hit on by some younger men who were not underage but were certainly lying about their age. I paid attention, I asked questions. People are going to lie but I don't have to be gullible because it's convenient or easy.

Author

msgrits

Date

2008-05-13T15:43:59-06:00

ID

129756

Comment

And to answer the question with the videos.... It is R. Kelly's legal responsiblity (and if it happens in the club that increase the liability of the owners as well.) Legally, it's his. Girls Gone Wild guy in jail clears that one up. As the responsible adult, he should get identification. Now if she falisfied i.d. that will come up in court, and she will be accountable. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T15:45:42-06:00

ID

129757

Comment

Queen, I'm just saying the "you don't know what I'm talking about" argument came up. Not meaning to offend you. But you alluded that I don't know what I'm saying or talking about since 1. I don't go to clubs. 2. I'm a teacher? (which I'm not sure has anything to do with the discussion. That stuff does make it personal :) It makes the argument since I'm the person I am, that my argument is not valid. Kind of hitting the person and not the ideas.... I'm not mad. Really. This kind of goes back to when we were discussing Nelly and Oprah, and I was dismissed as a "hater" when who I am, as a white chick, made my thoughts not "real."

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T15:51:01-06:00

ID

129759

Comment

Emily I have not insulted you -- at all! Ladies, believe me I get it. I get your point. But I suppose that you think a man who has been lead to believe that a woman is of legal consenting age, and she isn't, should go to jail anyway. When he hasn't been given any reason to believe that she is not of consenting age? How is that fair? You can say all day long that "he should know"....how, why? What if he doesn't? He is not a willing participant, so then why is it that he should go to jail for something he was ignorant to? And contrary to what you may think, this happens to guys all the time. It really and truly does. Prime example...I have a nephew who is 18 years old doing time right now because he was in a RELATIONSHIP with a girl who was in his class but was underage. He had no reason to believe that she was not his age at all. He had no reason to believe that she was to young to consent to sex. They'd been having sex for months until she came up pregnant. Mother's mad now, not mad when they were dating, but now she's made. Guess what, he is now facing charges. Are you telling me that he should have known better? You telling me that this guy, this straight A student, never been in trouble, first girlfriend EVER, you're telling me that this guy deserves to do time over this?????? He deserves to have a record now because of this? No, he doesn't and he's not the only one who has reached this slippery slope.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T15:58:18-06:00

ID

129760

Comment

I think the case of classmates who are within a two or three years of each other's age should be an exception to this discussion which started out about a guy in his twenties allegedly having sex with girls like the one in the video and Aaliyah who were clearly under age! Stopping one night stands would help those guys avoid bad situation and would also help cut down on HIV/AIDS, STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-05-13T16:03:20-06:00

ID

129761

Comment

And Emily I was trying to make this point not trying to insult you. I tried to be as polite as I could when I was making my point. So, again, i did not mean to insult you OR to make you think that I dont believe you have a point or an opinion that matters. I really never meant to give you that impression at all. AT ALL!!!! This is a dangerous subject, but those are the ones that need to be had....and we shouldn't be afraid to touch on them from time to time. I knew many people would disagree with my opinion, of course. But I still have real experiences that lead me to feel this way, so I am okay with sharing them AND with learning from other folks opinions.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T16:04:47-06:00

ID

129762

Comment

No there are no exceptions. We are discussion underaged sex. The conversation has touched on it previously and it is still relevant. Everyone here agrees that R. Kelly is sick and deserves what he gets. But we are discussing this entire topic in general. So, I don't see how what I just mentioned isn't just as relevant. He's an adult. She was underage. What's the difference?

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-13T16:06:53-06:00

ID

129763

Comment

Many state legislatures seem to have understood a difference because many states make an exception when both people are young and there is a limited age difference. Georgia reformed its laws after the 17 year-old was imprisoned for oral sex with a 15 year-old. Other states may need to reform theirs also.

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-05-13T16:12:54-06:00

ID

129764

Comment

Also, I remember learning in high school in law class that the age of consent is 14. Has that changed in MS? (God I hope so!)

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T16:18:55-06:00

ID

129765

Comment

O.K. Asked my lawyer roommate (I'm sure we'd need a factcheck; he knows his stuff but he doesn't practice in this area) and the age of consent is considered 14. However, in stat. rape, the court considered a within two years age difference. So there's the loophole. 14 and 16...not a crime. 14 and 18...yes. That's the way lawyer remembers it.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T17:29:19-06:00

ID

129766

Comment

No it's not 14 but under 16... § 97-3-65. Statutory rape; enhanced penalty for forcible sexual intercourse or statutory rape by administering certain substances. (1) The crime of statutory rape is committed when: (a) Any person seventeen (17) years of age or older has sexual intercourse with a child who: (i) Is at least fourteen (14) but under sixteen (16) years of age; (ii) Is thirty-six (36) or more months younger than the person; and (iii) Is not the person's spouse; or (b) A person of any age has sexual intercourse with a child who: (i) Is under the age of fourteen (14) years; (ii) Is twenty-four (24) or more months younger than the person; and (iii) Is not the person's spouse. (2) Neither the victim's consent nor the victim's lack of chastity is a defense to a charge of statutory rape. (3) Upon conviction for statutory rape, the defendant shall be sentenced as follows: (a) If eighteen (18) years of age or older, but under twenty-one (21) years of age, and convicted under subsection (1)(a) of this section, to imprisonment for not more than five (5) years in the State Penitentiary or a fine of not more than Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00), or both; (b) If twenty-one (21) years of age or older and convicted under subsection (1)(a) of this section, to imprisonment of not more than thirty (30) years in the State Penitentiary or a fine of not more than Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000.00), or both, for the first offense, and not more than forty (40) years in the State Penitentiary for each subsequent offense; (c) If eighteen (18) years of age or older and convicted under subsection (1)(b) of this section, to imprisonment for life in the State Penitentiary or such lesser term of imprisonment as the court may determine, but not less than twenty (20) years; (d) If thirteen (13) years of age or older but under eighteen (18) years of age and convicted under subsection (1)(a) or (1)(b) of this section, such imprisonment, fine or other sentence as the court, in its discretion, may determine. (4) (a) Every person who shall have forcible sexual intercourse with any person, or who shall have sexual intercourse not constituting forcible sexual intercourse or statutory rape with any person without that person's consent by administering to such person any substance or liquid which shall produce such stupor or such imbecility of mind or weakness of body as to prevent effectual resistance, upon conviction, shall be imprisoned for life in the State Penitentiary if the jury by its verdict so prescribes; and in cases where the jury fails to fix the penalty at life imprisonment, the court shall fix the penalty at imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for any term as the court, in its discretion, may determine. (b) This subsection (4) shall apply whether the perpetrator is married to the victim or not. (5) In all cases where a victim is under the age of sixteen (16) years, it shall not be necessary to prove penetration where it is shown the genitals, anus or perineum of the child have been lacerated or torn in the attempt to have sexual intercourse with the child. (6) For the purposes of this section, "sexual intercourse" shall mean a joining of the sexual organs of a male and female human being in which the penis of the male is inserted into the vagina of the female or the penetration of the sexual organs of a male or female human being in which the penis or an object is inserted into the genitals, anus or perineum of a male or female. I can't believe that someone has the audacity to even suggest the underage person should be punished. It does not matter one damn bit rather the underage person consents or not! And Queen you state your nephew is doing time then state he's facing time. Which is it? And you state the girl was in his class. Well if he's facing stat rape charges then she has to be at the youngest fifteen. I just don't buy that he did not know she wasn't of age. He would know what classes she is in such as 9th or 10th grade English. SOunds like crap to me.

Author

iratetoday

Date

2008-05-13T17:58:45-06:00

ID

129767

Comment

Okay, so ii is gives a three year curve on age then, if I'm reading it right. But I'm tired :) Am I reading that wrong? Does that keep us safe in court from having the frivolous charges (and frivilous is lack of a better word...y'all get what I mean...)

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-13T18:45:28-06:00

ID

129769

Comment

Is the "Pee on You" video admissible as evidence? Damn I miss Dave Chapelle.... And I saw that 36 month clause as well. If that's taken on face value across the board, some of us older folks could be breakin' the law (in BOTH directions). There's some jacked up laws regarding sex on the books that should be abolished, but hitting it with a girl that age when he is as old as he is should forever more be illegal. (addendum) R Kelly was initially denied bond in the peeing matter. When he asked the judge why so, the judge replied.... "I believe you will fly..."

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2008-05-13T21:08:41-06:00

ID

129789

Comment

I heard someone refer to R. Kelly this morning as the "Pee King." I didn't see the video. I thought child pornography was illegal. Y'all are perverts for watching that. I agree with Queen that something has to be done to stop young girls from engaging in this knowing behavior. I would still prosecute the adult though!

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-14T10:46:51-06:00

ID

129791

Comment

Walt, you sound like a lawyer. I did not possess or "play" the video. I happened to pop in unannounced at a friends house who had it on. On the one hand I felt uncomfortable, but on the other hand...I had never seen anyone pee on anyone before...I was like a deer in headlights!

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-05-14T10:52:16-06:00

ID

129797

Comment

The laws regarding this are outrageous to me. Seems like there is no winning this if a guy just so happens to get "caught up" which does happen. I am not saying that girls are not placed in situations where they are taken advantage of by older men....never said that. I'm not even talking about those particular situations. I am talking about situations where the criminal is the young girl who is banking on the fact that she's covered by the law (thanks for posting that). I think that it would be in our best interest to contain a young female early and teach her that this is not behavior to live her life by just because the law is on her side. There are young girls out there who practice this and ROB YOUNG MEN of their fair opportunity because as the law states, they could face from 20 years to life for something they did not "willingly" participate in. That's simply not fair to them. It's also unfair of us to contribute to this by just accepting it as "he did it" so "he should go to jail". Too many people go to jail for things they did not do. Many others go to jail for things they do and don't realize they've done it. To keep this confusion down, would it not be best to just hold these particular girls accountable for their actions - the actions that could put a man in jail for life. If these girls are equipped with responsibility and a new value of self, seems to me that it would be much easier to distinguish men who lie and deceive young girls for sex and those who are unaware of the young ladies age. Seems like that would be simple enough to me. Because, contrary to some opinions here, again, I must say that there are girls out there who purposely set men up for to face a case of statutory rape. Those women need to be held accountable. It's not like the guy will get a slap on the wrist and sent on their way....these men are PLACED IN JAIL FOR LIFE possibly. Just think we really need to think about that.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-05-14T11:16:20-06:00

ID

129799

Comment

It is my opinion that if a guy does not want to be placed in jail for life, then he should consider some other sure-fire legal way to get his rocks off if there is any question what-so-ever about a girl's age. Really it's not that hard. If there is any doubt, don't do it!

Author

ellen

Date

2008-05-14T11:26:37-06:00

ID

129802

Comment

What about the girls or women who "just throw it on you," as some men claim happened to them. There is nothing like a determined women who wants you or what you have, be they young or old. Some of them will get you sleep or drunk, tie you up, slam some viagra down your throat, undress you, undress themselves and just go to work on you. What if she gets pregnant or films you sexually involved with her under such circumstances? No one will beleive the man unwillingly participated. Furthermore, what about the pressure of being called a punk if you won't sleep with a woman. Most men would shut the woman up under those circumstances by sleeping with her.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-14T11:35:44-06:00

ID

129805

Comment

Excellent points Queen. I think throughout this entire discussion what is prevalent is the fact that there are different experiences lived by different indivduals. One's reality may not mirror another's and its clear here that say for instance Queen and Emily have had different experiences which shape their opinions. I think in reading, that its established here that NO ONE agrees with an older man or woman having sex with an underage partner. we are all in agreeance that said perpetrator should be punished. But judging from the laws on the books and the seriousness of those charges I feel, in agreeing with Queen, that we should definitely evaluate some of them to reflect the changing society and to ensure that in some cases if a man/woman has been duped(for whatever reason) that there is some accountiing for that. As Dave Chappelle so eloquently put it..though he was being funny. We have to decide in america just how old 14-15 really is. Is it old enough on the one hand to charge a young man in Florida as an adult for accidentally killing his sister practicing wrestling moves or is it old enough on the other to say that a female has the cognitive skills to know whether or not she's willing to let herself be urinated on. Which is it? It isnt fair to just place the entire weight on the "man" and say "he should know better" THAT has proven to not work on many levels in this country. Knowing as Queen says that there are females out there with the intent to do such..It scares me that someone would say "its the MAN'S responsibility" especially when it can come down to your word against hers. A man can lose his lie and rep on a suppositioon or a lie..And again as a performer Im super duper paranoid because I SEE it too often. but again..Our experiences may be different BUT because someone else doesnt see it or believe it exsists DOESNT mean its not happening . Just means you arent frequenting the same places. No biggie. Bottom Line. Be more careful. you can get caught up. and NOT know it. Its wrong to have sex with a minor. Get caught, the MAN will pay the price. Bottom Line. R. Kelly's got some issues. Clearly. Looks like him in the tape. If so. See ya.. wouldnt wanna b ya. But that young lady obviously had some issues as well and we cant put those issues ALL on Kelly. And thats not attacking the victim. But Im not gonna sit back and say its ALL on the men...We've got to raise our young ladies better.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-05-14T11:44:21-06:00

ID

129806

Comment

Ellen, you women have no idea how impossible it is to walk around in a state of teasement. There is no waiting or looking for other ways once the moment has arisen so I've been told by many young men. Remember Adam was lonely and the Lawd sent him Eve to handle his business needs. Adam probably would have gone crazy had he not gotten immediate help. Why do y'all think Jeffrey Dahmer started killing and eating people? Yes, y'all didn't know about that did you? Just saying!

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-14T11:45:13-06:00

ID

129807

Comment

I said adult's responsibility later on. In the grand scheme, it's the adult man or woman's responsibility. R. Kelly and clubs do not own the market on statatory rape. The issue of rape and statatory rape is not owned by just one community or perspective.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-14T12:12:25-06:00

ID

129808

Comment

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that they don't believe underage girls try to get adult men to have sex with them. It happens. If a girl convinces a man to have sex with her under false pretenses, then that should be dealt with accordingly. Nobody is arguing that. Seems like the safest thing for an adult to do would be to just NOT do it if there is any doubt. There are plenty of adult fishies in the sea. Doesn't seem like we are giving guys enough credit here.

Author

ellen

Date

2008-05-14T12:18:17-06:00

ID

129809

Comment

Re "Why do y'all think Jeffrey Dahmer started killing and eating people? " 'Cause they tasted like chicken?

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-05-14T12:23:22-06:00

ID

129810

Comment

It is very scary that underage girls are allowed into night clubs around here. Something should be done to stop that. Are they getting in with fake ID's or do the clubs just not have an age limit?

Author

ellen

Date

2008-05-14T12:25:13-06:00

ID

129812

Comment

I wonder what Dahmer ate with them. I bet he fixed a pasta salad, some candy yams, macaroni and cheese, fried green tomatoes, purle-hulled peas, green, cone bread and some ice tea. Guys do need to just pass on the sex if they're not sure of the girl's age. However, I say again in all seriousness that women have no idea of the pain suffered by men while trying to hold back a moment whose time has come. Women know all about timing but they won't admit it when engaged in these kinds of conversations. Try to get a woman to act sexually when not desired and watch the fallout. Reject a woman when she's pursuing you and likewise watch the fallout or revenge if you appraoch her later. Yet women pretend and argue we men ought to have all this great control that they don't themselves show when routinely inebriated. Granted most women show good judgment when sober. However, it's up to us fellows, drop a log willy nilly and face prosecution or child support, or resist. For me, I'm going with resistance. I started to asking for the birth certificate, driver's license, the number of their ob/gyn doctor and a palm print to give to my investigator to investigate before I slept with a girl.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-14T12:41:30-06:00

ID

129813

Comment

Emily...I dont think the "ownership" of rape or stat rape was ever broached here. And i dont see where anyone tried to "own" it. what I said was..and I think i was agreeing with you..is that we all have different experiences and from those different opinnions are formed. Your reality is REAL as is Queen's. Both realities exist. We're sticking too close to the "club" issue anyway. This happens all over town. In schools, churches, homes, grocery stores, etc. Its an issue everywhere. Black, white, man, woman, rich, poor. my opinion stays the same in any case. Im just speaking on the experiences I(me me, me) have had. the safest thing and only thing you can do is be more careful and more responsible. Period Man or Woman. cuz as we've seen..BOTH sexes have done their share. guys get plenty of credit no doubt dont worry..but human beings are.. well...human and have treacherous faults. Lets give em credit but lets not set up a system that could give a guy 30 off the rip for again..a supposition or lie..lets put safeguards in place so that its not so much "his word against hers"

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-05-14T12:42:03-06:00

ID

129814

Comment

and YES..underage folks..PERIOD are getting in clubs all over town...I know of two FOR SURE that take I.D. VERY SERIOUS..Hal and Mals and Club 105,,and thats why I prefer to have events there. Some are getting fake ID's but Hell, why bother when you can get in anyway by putting on something provocative, puttiing on makeup, and hitting the club with some older friends. the way to stop it is to monitor..Start fining..and then start shutting cats down. Kids are getting served drinks in clubs, their smoking(most convenience stores dont even ask for ID ) in clubs, and doin drugs in clubs. Ive spoke at High Schools to Freshmen on a Friday then saw them in a club later that night when I went to do a show. KNOWING they werent supposed to be there! Its a city wide problem.. Guys figure..Hey, you got in..you're good. Whassup? they already assuming "18"..its a slippery slope..and thats MY reality.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-05-14T12:48:34-06:00

ID

129815

Comment

Yeah, JPD needs to put a stop to that. I don't go out as much as I use to, but when I do it's usually to Hal & Mal's, Martin's, or 930. Those places always check ID's at the front door and you have to be 21 to get in.

Author

ellen

Date

2008-05-14T13:06:36-06:00

ID

129816

Comment

What needs to happen is a crackdown on underage party-goers and then finding a healthy, safe alternative for kids 14-17 to go that they will patronize..so it has to be "cool" and not a "kiddie place" somewhere between Gattitown and the upper level :-)..We are experiencing this problem cuz these teens HAVE no place to go and parents or guardians that arent monitoring enough to keep em from sneaking in places they shouldnt be. Teens wanna go out..if there is no place available..they're either gonna hang(which leads to trouble) or go to the next best option (a club, which leads to the trouble we're talking about here)

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2008-05-14T13:15:40-06:00

ID

129817

Comment

:) It would also help if the clubs would not accept student i.d. for entry. There are students under the age of 18 at universities who get i.d.'s. All other issues with that one.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-05-14T13:44:10-06:00

ID

129928

Comment

The trial gets started next week. I don't expect a Michael Jackson miracle either. Chicago isn't California and Michael wasn't peeing on anybody so far as we know. Peeing on anybody is horrible and sick in the head. And peeing on a child, even if she is stupid and messed up, just ain't right. Kelly must go down hard!

Author

Walt

Date

2008-05-18T11:38:45-06:00

ID

130374

Comment

http://www.wftv.com/news/16348047/detail.html I'm having problems with the link, however if you can get to it....please go check out this story about a young girl who lied about her age and an unsuspecting young man is now headed to jail. Funny how some still think this doesn't exist.

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-06-02T16:26:51-06:00

ID

130380

Comment

The prosecution rested yesterday. A key witness said the Pee King (R. Kelly)liked to tape his sex acts and he kept a duffel bag with him at all times containing tapes of his sexual works. What a nut for taping and sicko for loving baby girls. Even Mystical, the video rapist now doing time for taping one of his rapes, agrees R. Kelly is crazy and should be locked up too. Thank God I don't have any musical talents worth listening to. Apparently, they make you nuts.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-03T07:54:15-06:00

ID

130382

Comment

Walt you just may have a point. Especially the ones who are clearly born to contribute in ways others will never match. It really is a horrible thing. Is there any talk of him getting any help or are they just talking jail time?

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-06-03T08:07:21-06:00

ID

130385

Comment

Probably jail time only. Unfortunately, unless he's put in a very nice prison with good protection some inmates will offer him some help, but it will be the kind no human being needs. Rumors has it that a child molester is hated thorougly by inmates. I still agree with you that something should happen to the young girls who participate in these sexual acts. Why can't they be discouraged with therapy and punishment of some kind just like other juveniles who commit violent crimes?

Author

Walt

Date

2008-06-03T08:40:51-06:00

ID

130391

Comment

I don't think they don't exist. It's like Donna says about "equal sides." There are two sides, one where they lie and one where they don't. I think the "don't lie" is much, much heavier in a court of law.

Author

emilyb

Date

2008-06-03T11:34:33-06:00

ID

130417

Comment

My problem with the total ignoring of the young girl's participation is that it will continue and lead to not only many men going to jail under pretences that they probably would have handled differently had they NOT been lied to, but this behavior will certainly lead to a thirst for this outcome and a hunger to behave in this fashion again and again. The girl from the link - her parents were unremorseful. This is the SECOND guy she has lied to and sent to jail. This fella even went to talk to the father afterwards. That's a pretty stand up thing to do. he was clearly trying to correct a mistake that he had made unintentionally. CLEARLY. What has been done to this female? NOTHING. As her parents state, she is still out all types of night. She still has the same myspace page up leading men to believe that she is 19 years old. For that, she should receive NO punishment...at all. She should just be allowed to continue this CRIMINAL behavior. That's what it is....criminal. She is knowingly deceiving these men and accepting that they will be sent to jail. She's getting off on it. Sort of like someone who is infected with HIV having sex with someone without making them knowledgeable about their sickness. Same thing because this man is facing 20 to life. It's ridiculous. The fact that she is repeating this after one dude has already been sent to jail because of her, makes me believe that this lack of childhood judgement is just cop out. Because she obviously knows what she's doing. And she as well as the large number of other young girls who do this should be held accountable. Even if it's kicking her fast butt off myspace and never letting her have access to a page again. Something! Anything!

Author

Queen601

Date

2008-06-03T15:35:07-06:00