Jackson Free Press

In an important mea culpa, conservative Kathleen Parker is standing up and saying what many people, likely including conservatives, are thinking: Sarah Palin ought to step down. She's not qualified, and she's making a fool out of herself and McCain. Parker today:

If at one time women were considered heretical for swimming upstream against feminist orthodoxy, they now face condemnation for swimming downstream — away from Sarah Palin. To express reservations about her qualifications to be vice president — and possibly president — is to risk being labeled anti-woman. Or, as I am guilty of charging her early critics, supporting only a certain kind of woman.

Some of the passionately feminist critics of Palin who attacked her personally deserved some of the backlash they received. But circumstances have changed since Palin was introduced as just a hockey mom with lipstick — what a difference a financial crisis makes — and a more complicated picture has emerged.

As we've seen and heard more from John McCain's running mate, it is increasingly clear that Palin is a problem. Quick study or not, she doesn't know enough about economics and foreign policy to make Americans comfortable with a President Palin should conditions warrant her promotion. [...]

It was fun while it lasted. Palin's recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League. [...]

What to do? McCain can't repudiate his choice for running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP's unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability. Barack Obama faces the same problem with Biden. Only Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first. Do it for your country.

Previous Comments

ID

138303

Comment

Allow me to say for the record that I predicted the day that it came out that Bristol was pregnant that the McCain campaign would end up forcing Palin to step down during the campaign due to "family reasons." And boy does she have them. I don't think she'll be happy about it—and seeing how ambitious she is, it's hard to imagine that she would just decide to "do it for her country." Much less her family. Let's see if my prediction comes true. If conservatives are calling for it, it just might happen. It's remarkable, though, that people like Parker were awed by her in the beginning, though. She clearly came with a closet-ful of dynamite waiting to blow up in their faces.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-09-26T17:41:09-06:00

ID

138304

Comment

If Palin resigns or is removed from the ticket, game, set, match for Obama. Seriously, after watching her interview with Katie Couric, I'm convinced she's the mother of the 2007 Miss Teen South Carolina.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-09-26T17:54:06-06:00

ID

138306

Comment

golden, I was JUST watching the video this morning. The whole "everyone like such as" and "the Iraq" still leaves me shaking my head.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-09-26T18:21:54-06:00

ID

138346

Comment

Fareed Zakaria takes the Palin kid gloves off in Newsweek: Will someone please put Sarah Palin out of her agony? Is it too much to ask that she come to realize that she wants, in that wonderful phrase in American politics, "to spend more time with her family"? It's worth noting that many of Palin's early defenders are getting much more quiet as she proves that the early concerns about her correct. It will be an interesting week. Obama has how flexed his presidential muscle, McCain came across as a grumpy old, condescending man with little sense of how to have a civil conversation with a fellow American (much less a skeptical ally, or a potentual enemy), and now Palin has to answer questions and converse about world affairs without a teleprompter. We'll be back in the Red Room for another debate watch party Thursday night to observe how it transpires. The Obama campaign warns that she is a good debater. It seems that the real question will be her grasp of world-stage issues and how well she pulls them off—and how many foreign policy questions she gets. It needs to be half the debate, considering the good possibility that she could become president. My guess is she will take every opportunity to blame the media for her weaknesses.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-09-27T17:03:47-06:00

ID

138348

Comment

Republicans have a history of standing by problematic VP candidates--Dan Quayle and Dick Cheney, to name two good examples--and the reason for that is that when they switch (as Ford did in '76), it only seems to make things worse. Picking a bad VP candidate says "I'm an idiot." Picking a bad VP candidate and then turfing him/her says "I'm an idiot and I stab my friends in the back." But then picking a bad VP candidate and not turfing him/her says "I'm an idiot and I can't admit to my mistakes," so really you can't win if you pick a bad VP candidate. What McCain should have done is either vet Palin more carefully in advance or choose somebody with more of a history. Susan Collins would be a particularly exciting VP candidate, I think, and not at all bad as a presidential nominee either. Why she keeps getting overlooked for this stuff is beyond me. Probably too much of a freethinker. I don't know what to make of Sarah Palin. I do know that doing what she has done in life--from sportscasting to becoming governor of Alaska--takes a certain amount of sense that is not presently on display. She may be deliberately trying to lower expectations for the debate with Biden so that when he outflanks her, he'll come across as a misogynistic bully. It's a cynical strategy but one that just might work. Her platform, going all the way back to 1996, is frighteningly right-wing and theocratic. But it, too, was cynical--she politicized the Wasilla mayoral elections, introducing the culture war to it for the first time in city history. She is clearly one of two things: An extremist moron, or a brilliant Machiavellian. We'll probably find out which next Thursday. Donna, I attended the debate party Thursday and somehow we completely missed each other! Possibly because I get tunnel vision, possibly those awesome Hal & Mal's mixed drinks (I figured a foreign policy debate would be a clever and ironic time to have my first cosmopolitan), but the debate looked very very well attended, mostly by a group of young folks that I haven't seen at past activist events. Are these new locals Obama is bringing into the political process, or mainly out of state folks? It bodes well either way, but the former would be especially good news.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-09-28T02:53:21-06:00

ID

138351

Comment

Did anyone suggest Dan Quayle step down for the good of the party back when Bush the Elder ran for President? I don't think Sarah Palin was a good choice for VP, but she is smarter than Quayle (now, how is that for an endorsement?) Of course, there is something to be said about self-awareness, meaning that in the same way a drunk who knows he or she is drunk may be a safer driver than a drunk who thinks he or she is sober.

Author

gwilly

Date

2008-09-28T14:44:20-06:00

ID

138354

Comment

You hit the nail on the head gwilly. As Clint Eastwood's character in Dirty Harry stated, "A man's gotta know his limitations". The problem with people like Scrub Bush and Moose Killer is they don't realize their limitations. They not only think they are smarter than the non-seers like us, but also believe they have supernatural powers like the ability to peek into the souls of former KGB people like Putin and to discern the wishes of the Almighty for things like natural gas pipelines and military strategies. Those "gifts" can be a heavy burden. There will always be those who do not understand these mysterious ways (such as me and Barack Obama). If I had had an African witch hunter to put roots on me maybe (like Sarah Palin) I could be governor or Vice President? If only Hillary Clinton had known! It might be worth a trip to the motherland. I can hear the commercial, "Girl, I think somebody put roots on me! I think I'll run for governor!"

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-09-28T16:55:08-06:00

ID

138355

Comment

Tina Fey does it again! This skit is a parody of the CBS interview. Amy Poehler nails Katie Couric's frequent eye blinking.

Author

LatashaWillis

Date

2008-09-28T18:57:22-06:00

ID

138356

Comment

Donna, I attended the debate party Thursday and somehow we completely missed each other! That means you missed out on meeting me too, since I sat near her and Todd. Also sat by Ronni, too and she's a real hoot. I finally got a chance to meet Lori Gregory as well. I also saw Tina Fey's skit as well last night. Funny!

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-09-28T19:32:25-06:00

ID

138366

Comment

I think they were mostly locals, Tom. I recognized a lot of people. It was a good party. We're doing one for each debate there, so come on down!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-09-29T10:01:01-06:00

ID

138367

Comment

Same time, same bat channel for this Thursday?

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-09-29T11:53:02-06:00

ID

138369

Comment

The Debate Party crowd was amazing; it felt more like a Chick Ball or Hearts Against AIDS. I've never seen a crowd like that for a political debate party, particularly the young folks and people just having a good time. It's hard not to see what a phenomenon Obama is and what an interesting pivot year we're living through.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2008-09-29T12:27:01-06:00

ID

138371

Comment

So, Palin said this about Biden this morning before going into a three-day "debate camp" in Sedona, Ariz.: "I do look forward to Thursday night and debating Sen. Joe Biden," Palin said while introducing John McCain at a rally here. "We are going to talk about those new ideas, new energy for America. I'm looking forward to meeting him too. I've never met him before. But I've been hearing about his Senate speeches since I was in, like, second grade." Palin, 44, would have been eight years old when Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1972 at the age of 29. John McCain was 36. How does making fun of Biden for being older than she is help her? It's not like Biden is as old as McCain or the top name on the ticket, meaning his health and longevity is a major concern. And how does pointing out her own youth and inexperience help her? She just sounds petty and mean. The choice of her as vice president is still the biggest indicator of how McCain's judgment is in the toilet.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-09-29T13:08:27-06:00

ID

138548

Comment

Given her strong performance in last night's debate. Palin won't be replaced. End of story.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-10-03T05:22:29-06:00

ID

138549

Comment

Her performance was only "strong" if you thought she was going to drool as one pundit put it. Expectations were incredibly, and insultingly, low for a vice presidential, but it was of her own doing, so you can't feel sorry for her. With the morning light, I do have one word: McClelland, If she was anyone else that people expect to know the basics about the country, she would be laughed out of the race for this. Put another way, had Biden mixed up an Iraq War leader and a Civil War general's name, you'd never hear the end of it. I'm embarrassed for her—largely because she doesn't know how she's being used. BTW, conservative columnist Parker (quoted above) made fun of her after the debate:

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T07:05:38-06:00

ID

138550

Comment

Parker: Well, darnit all, if that dadgum girl (wink, wink) didn't beat the tarnation out of Joe Biden. Maverick Sarah Palin fersure surpassed expectations and said everything under the sun, also. And Biden smiled and smiled. Palin is a populist pro. She hit all the notes that resonate with non-elite Americans: family (Hi Mom and Dad!), "Can I call ya Joe?" personal responsibility, Wall Street greed, children with special needs. Her most effective technique was speaking directly to the American people and letting Joe know that's what she was gonna do, doggonit. Stylistically, she used the language of the people to great effect. ... I'll have to go to the transcript to figure out what Palin actually said and try to figure out whose facts were right. But there's no question she exceeded everyone's expectations and won the debate on popularity. She did her homework, studied hard, and delivered with spunk. Still, I had the uneasy feeling throughout that I was witnessing a data dump from a very appealing droid. She clearly offends Parker as she does intelligent women around the country. We know you can't wink yourself out of a domestic or international crisis. McCain has insulted us all by putting her there. This one will stink in the history books for him.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T07:06:54-06:00

ID

138552

Comment

"Still, I had the uneasy feeling throughout that I was witnessing a data dump from a very appealing droid." - Parker Funny. One of my tweets last night during the debate was "Palin: buffering... buffering..." She didn't seem to be processing what she was saying. It didn't seem like it was coming from a personal or knowledgeable place. Instead, it seemed to be spewing forth like a data dump (thanks Parker). Scary fact: many found her convincing enough... Of course, those convinced would probably put W back in office for another 4.

Author

kaust

Date

2008-10-03T07:18:12-06:00

ID

138554

Comment

Yes, and she had severl non sequitur word strings just like she did with Couric. But the bar is low for the "pitbull with lipstick." It's so sexist. There is no indication, though, that anyone who needs to be fooled by her to help McCain actually were. The real story was Joe Biden: man, did he deliver exactly what he needed to. I was so impressed by him. Going in, I realized he was the one who made me nervous; would he mess up? She did exactly what I expected based on tapes of her Alaska debates: repeat the "red meat" sound bites, and change the subject when she couldn't answer a question. And try to bait him into making a mistake toward her. But he was right on. Very nicely done.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T07:27:59-06:00

ID

138555

Comment

She didn't have a meltdown or a major gaffe as many expected and her critics were openly hoping for. Don't get me wrong, I think Biden won the debate on substance. But Palin won the night because she did no harm to McCain's campaign, and her place as his running mate is secure.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-10-03T07:29:36-06:00

ID

138556

Comment

Jeff, do you really think that calling the NATO commander in Afghanistan the name of a civil war general would not qualify as a "major gaffe" for anyone else on the ticket!?! How about saying McCain's health-care plan is "revenue-neutral"? I can understand muddling a detail about the opponent's Senate voting record, but outright lying about the cost of their own policies??? I swear, some of you guys judge debates on weird criteria. We saw that last week when a lot of politics watcher somehow thought Obama and McCain "tied." Then the American people spoke. There is no real to give her credit where none is due. She is a smart aleck who showed that she had memorized some talking points and knows very little beyond that. She couldn't even pause to acknowledge Biden's loss. This is like the worst sexist stereotype of an ambitious, vicious woman up there on stage right in front of us. This is really hard for women to watch. The worst part is seeing her get credit where none is due when the rest of us have to work so damn hard for it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T07:35:24-06:00

ID

138557

Comment

You're the only one I've seen (other than predictable ideologues) who say that Palin "won the night" because she didn't hurt McCain. Do you forget that he went in behind; a "win" would have helped him. The winner last night was Barack Obama.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T07:36:46-06:00

ID

138559

Comment

Ladd, I don't care if others you are reading aren't saying what I'm saying, I'm stating my opinion. I said last week I thought Obama won and you didn't have a problem with that. Again, Biden won the debate while Palin avoided going down in the history books as having the worst VP debate performance in modern memory, which does no harm to the McCain campaign and probably helped her keep her job as his running mate. In the end, this debate will be quickly forgotten as are 90% of VP debates. That's all I'm saying.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2008-10-03T08:05:32-06:00

ID

138561

Comment

Palin clearly dominated.

Author

QB

Date

2008-10-03T08:59:41-06:00

ID

138563

Comment

Fat Harry, she dominated the topics she chose to talk about. Her answers to the actual questions were an epic FAIL. Every poll I've seen this morning suggests the American public disagrees with you also... By a very large margin.

Author

kaust

Date

2008-10-03T09:09:25-06:00

ID

138565

Comment

She was the typical beauty Queen last night to me - lots of words and phrases to hide mere understanding of policy and facts and shallowness that is to be expected of someone with her experience and abilities. Again, I'm disappointed that no one besides the media and citizens afraid of her have attacked her for her obvious flaws. Again, I don't understand why she can't be attacked. She's running for an important office and needs to be exposed before she lucks out, gets elected and we pay the consequences. We have paid the consequences for nearly 8 years because of corrupt and inept people. I don't buy the theory that the Obama camp is smarter than everyone else and knows attacking her will do harm to them. If it's done correctly, it won't harm anyone but her who deserves it. Why allow her to play on the big stage without missiles flying her way too. Every fighter has a great plan until he gets hit, then often the fighter forgets the plan and resorts to instincts.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-10-03T09:10:30-06:00

ID

138566

Comment

Well, it's not like Fat Harry is an "undecided voter," Knoll. Earlier this week, he was no here trying to blame the current financial madness on a law in the 1970s passed to stop redlining against minorities. That says about that is need to be said. The same people who think Palin "dominated" or even tied last night are the same ones who thought McCain won the last debate. The public simply disagreed. Palin's obnoxious "red meat" style appeals to people who defended Bush until the very last second. They are blinded by her being mean to Democrats and still think most of the American public is with them on that. Most importantly, every policy she pushed was Bushian. There is no substantive policy difference between McCain-Palin and Bush-Cheney. Then there's that little problem of her wanting the vice presidency to take on more legislative power. What sheer idiocy. I betcha they didn't go over that one in the talking points.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T09:15:09-06:00

ID

138567

Comment

I know you're stating your opinion, Jeff. I'm just disagreeing with you. Opinion flows both directions. ;-) My bigger point is that such low expectations (which translates into saying she did well when she clearly did not) is very dangerous for women. And insulting. She needs to be judged by the very same barometer as men. And she's not being. That hurts all women.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T09:18:05-06:00

ID

138568

Comment

For the record, I'm really glad she didn't trip and fall off the stage, leading the campaign to push her off the ticket. I think Obama needs her to be right where she is next to John McCain. She scares the dickens out of non-hard-right voters, especially women. And she is downright offensive on top of it. That can only help Obama-Biden. It's also going to be intriguing to watch Troopergate play out in the background.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T09:19:42-06:00

ID

138569

Comment

No offense to beauty Queens. I like them. it's why I go to games, watch television and used to go to clubs.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-10-03T09:23:15-06:00

ID

138570

Comment

Yeap, that thing about improving or expanding the role of the vp scares me to. She made a mistake by standing behind the podium. She might have been more appealing to a broader audience if she had moved from behind the podium and not limited herself to winking. I got so tired of her winking at me! She should have thrusted, posed, licked her lips or something since most of what she has going for her is her looks anyway. However, she's not my type. I like smart women who happen to have beauty of all kinds and natures.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-10-03T09:51:39-06:00

ID

138571

Comment

A Times editorial today states the low expectation problem very well. It starts: We cannot recall when there were lower expectations for a candidate than the ones that preceded Sarah Palin’s appearance in Thursday night’s vice-presidential debate with Joseph Biden. After a series of stumbling interviews that raised serious doubts even among conservatives about her fitness to serve as vice president, Ms. Palin had to do little more than say one or two sensible things and avoid an election-defining gaffe. By that standard, but only by that standard, the governor of Alaska did well. But Ms. Palin never really got beyond her talking points in 90 minutes, mostly repeating clichés and tired attack lines and energetically refusing to answer far too many questions. Senator Biden did well, avoiding one of his own infamous gaffes, while showing a clear grasp of the big picture and the details. He left Ms. Palin way behind on most issues, especially foreign policy and national security, where she just seemed lost. It was in those moments that her lack of experience — two terms as mayor of a tiny Anchorage suburb and less than two years as governor — was most painfully evident. Asked about Israel, Ms. Palin reeled off her support for “a two-state solution, building our embassy also in Jerusalem, those things that we look forward to being able to accomplish with this peace-seeking nation.” Asked about the possible use of nuclear weapons, she declared “nuclear weaponry, of course, would be the be-all, end-all of just too many people and too many parts of our planet.” On Iraq, all she had to offer was the false accusation that Barack Obama wants to surrender. Mr. Biden directly challenged Ms. Palin’s debate prep on Afghanistan — pointing out that the commander there had disagreed with Mr. McCain’s call for an Iraq-style “surge” in Afghanistan. Ms. Palin tried to contradict him, but the most memorable part of her answer was that she got the general’s name wrong. You really, really need to the names of the generals on our side right. You really do.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T09:54:02-06:00

ID

138575

Comment

Of course, the Republican spinmeisters would say that Palin did a great job; the Democrats do it for their candidates, too, so it's no different.

Author

golden eagle

Date

2008-10-03T10:30:44-06:00

ID

138576

Comment

I agree Baquan. After a few minutes it was clear she would hold up for 90 minutes and not do as Ross Perot's vp did and say I've run out of ammunition. She came close though at the end, in my opinion. I then started to listen for substance and critical thinking beyond the folksy talk, words and phrases that were clearly given to her to use. Once I did that I didn't see any great cerebration, cognition, critical thinking, acumen or the sorts. She was prepared to fill up 90 minutes without falling down crying or apperaring a blistering idiot. She did that, and that's all she did, as far as I'm concerned. Biden had command of the occasion and the role of a leader. I wanted him to put his foot to her tail and break her off a little something to remember but I knew he wouldn't. He has control problems and didn't need to mess up at that hour and time.

Author

Walt

Date

2008-10-03T10:36:23-06:00

ID

138578

Comment

When someone asks me what I thought about last night's debate, I will answer, "What do I think about the debate? Well, I like pizza. I really like that seafood pizza at Sal and Mookies. Man, that is some good stuff! I even like the cheap $5 pepperoni pizza from Domino's. I may not answer the questions you ask, but I really want you to know how much I like pizza. You betcha I like pizza, that's for sure."

Author

Tre

Date

2008-10-03T11:20:01-06:00

ID

138580

Comment

I thought Palin said General McClellan--as in an early leader of the Army of the Potomac during the Civil War, and Lincoln's opponent in the 1864 presidential election. Which is ironic, because one of McClellan's talking points was that if the Union pressed and won the war, "miscenegation" would result and pretty soon mixed-race folks would be running the country. Wouldn't it be nice if there were some way he could see the Obama inauguration... Heh heh heh. Palin outperformed expectations, no question, and I'm now beginning to wonder if the reason she was kept away from the media--and gaffed badly when she wasn't--was to keep expectations low for the debate. If that's the strategy I think it shows an idiotic misunderstanding of the way media works--we've heard for weeks that Palin is an idiot, now we're going to hear that she's not an idiot with a month to go, but the question "Is Sarah Palin an idiot?" never should have been part of the McCain campaign's strategy to my mind. McCain may get a boost--VP debates don't usually produce one, but remember he got a boost the last time the election centered on Palin instead of himself--but from Tuesday on nobody's going to be talking much about last night's debate because the election will refocus on McCain and Obama. The important thing, IMHO, is that Biden didn't make any major, campaign-destroying gaffes. That was the only real potential I saw in the VP debate to dramatically change the dynamics of the race. So the important thing is for Obama to perform well in the next two debates, and keep on keepin' on re: his campaigning in the remaining swing states. He already basically has 260 electoral votes locked up, but if states containing the electoral votes he doesn't have locked up go the same way they went in 2004, he'll still lose 276-264. He really needs to win Colorado, Virginia, Florida, or Ohio (all of them 2004 red states). If he does that--and right now he's polling ahead in all four states--he'll be president.

Author

Tom Head

Date

2008-10-03T11:41:49-06:00

ID

138582

Comment

She did say McClelland. I almost choked on my cocktail. I do think they wanted expectations low; but that doesn't mean this will help much among voters that matter. And Biden was right on; that's the biggest news from last night. Agreed on Obama's job; he just needs to be steady as he goes, which he has been all along. He is so calm—"no drama," as he demands of his staff—and that is what is working for him. Meantime, McCain continues to wig out, sometimes without provocation. Not good.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2008-10-03T11:46:19-06:00

ID

138592

Comment

Palin didn't seem like a babbling wingnut last night because she ignored the questions and regurgitated lines she had been memorizing by the McCain's crick all week. She pretty much told us this is what she was doing! I have a lot of stuff memorized too. I can still recite Shakespeare and Tennyson stuff that I memorized in the eighth grade...maybe I am qualified to be Vice President. I'm smart, good lookin' and doggone it, people like drinking beer with me (or at least it seems that way after they have had a few).

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-10-03T13:29:53-06:00

ID

138598

Comment

Palin didn't seem like a babbling wingnut last night... She manages to come off fairly lucid until you read what she actually said; then it becomes clear that she's babbling. Take this, for example: IFILL: What has this administration done right or wrong -- this is the great, lingering, unresolved issue, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict -- what have they done? And is a two-state solution the solution? PALIN: A two-state solution is the solution. And Secretary Rice, having recently met with leaders on one side or the other there, also, still in these waning days of the Bush administration, trying to forge that peace, and that needs to be done, and that will be top of an agenda item, also, under a McCain-Palin administration. Israel is our strongest and best ally in the Middle East. We have got to assure them that we will never allow a second Holocaust, despite, again, warnings from Iran and any other country that would seek to destroy Israel, that that is what they would like to see. We will support Israel. A two-state solution, building our embassy, also, in Jerusalem, those things that we look forward to being able to accomplish, with this peace-seeking nation, and they have a track record of being able to forge these peace agreements. They succeeded with Jordan. They succeeded with Egypt. I'm sure that we're going to see more success there, also. It's got to be a commitment of the United States of America, though. And I can promise you, in a McCain-Palin administration, that commitment is there to work with our friends in Israel. I'm sorry... what did she say?

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2008-10-03T14:39:11-06:00

ID

138601

Comment

If they declare this a victory, then why don't they do the same thing in Iraq and bring the troops home. Just say, "We didn't fall flat on our faces, looks like victory to us, see ya wouldn't wanna be ya, sand dudes, peace out."

Author

FreeClif

Date

2008-10-03T14:48:29-06:00