Jackson Free Press

Read the 2008 Census Report on commuter data.

City Councilman Kenneth Stokes is pushing for a tax on the roughly 72,000 workers who commute to Jackson from the suburbs. Stokes' proposal was on today's City Council agenda, but he held the vote for council's next meeting.

Stokes said that he is debating whether the tax should come out of a commuter's paycheck or directly from their employer.

Stokes' council colleague, Chokwe Lumumba, of Ward 2, said yesterday that he would support a tax on commuters.

"The big issue is that people use the city of Jackson's facilities and roads, sometimes water supply and a number of other things, and they don't pay for them," Lumumba told the Jackson Free Press. "That's one thing when you've got a tourist coming in. It's another thing when you have people who do it every day. It seems like there should be an obligation."

Of the 111,570 people whose primary jobs are in Jackson's city limits, 72,686, or 65 percent, live outside the city, according to 2008 U.S. Census data. Madison County is home to 12 percent of those working in Jackson, and Rankin County supplies another 16.3 percent of the city's labor force.

Commuter taxes are an appealing revenue source for cash-strapped municipalities, but they rarely garner enough regional support to take effect. During budget meetings this May, local officials in Washington, D.C., supported a tax on the large number of commuters from suburban Maryland and Virginia. The measure depends on approval from Congress where district residents have no voter representation and few allies. New York City has also weighed reinstating the tax had assessed until 1999, when the New York state legislature repealed it.

Municipalities usually assess commuter taxes by deducting a percentage from the paychecks of workers who live outside the city.

Like other cities, Jackson would need to earn legislative approval to enact a local tax. Last year, the legislature authorized a 1-percent sales tax increase to support public safety and infrastructure but created a commission to oversee the spending of tax revenue. The additional controls led city leaders to decline the tax option. Lumumba conceded that it was unlikely that the Legislature would approve a tax that Jackson assessed on residents of other municipalities.

"Of course the Legislature has to ... break ice on it before what we would do would be effective," Lumumba said. "But I think we should send a message to the Legislature that that's what we want."

City spokesman Chris Mims declined to comment on Stokes' proposal.

Duane O'Neill, president of the Greater Jackson Chamber Partnership, which represents businesses across the Jackson metro area, said that an additional commuter tax could function as an incentive for businesses to leave Jackson.

"Right or wrong, I think you would have another argument as to why somebody should have their business elsewhere," O'Neill said.

The Chamber has considered a sales tax drawn from the entire metro region, which would be more palatable to suburbs.

"We're not an organization that usually likes any type of tax, but at the same time, if there was some type of regional sales tax, not just one city but everybody could benefit," O'Neill said. "That would seem to make more sense than one that's just applied to one city or a commuter tax from one city on the rest of the area."

Previous Commentsshow

Good idea - considering its Kenny Stokes, but in all honesty those suburbanites have the upper hand. Just like Duane O'Neil said, it would give more incentive for folks to leave. Just will have to keep putting the nose to the old grind stone to recoup some of those lost earnings. I for one wish the city would call for some kind of external audit to see where all the tax dollars are going, because there are a lot of things that are not adding up to me - but I have a two car household, along with paying property taxes and sales taxes in the city - where is the money going?

Duan C.

Aug 10 2010

I don't know . . . to me it seems like it'd be at best just another source of ill-will against the city on the part of suburbaites. At worst I fear it could be an incentive for businesses to locate in the suburbs instead of the city. Here in Philly, things are even weirder. The city actually has a "commuter tax break." The city taxes all wage and salary income, but charges a HIGHER rate for city residents than for suburbanites who work in the city. Essentially, the city has created a tax incentive for people to leave the city. All said, I think I prefer making the city of Jackson better as a way to encourage people to live there, instead of trying to create disincentives to leave.

Mark Michalovic

Aug 10 2010

I'd be worried that a metro-area sales tax increase would drive alot of people to looking for more bargins and free shipping options online. Whereas no sales tax in a city for even a few days a year gives people incentive.

herman

Aug 10 2010

Nothing like trying to tax people who can't vote you out of office.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 10 2010

I'm a Jacksonian interested in bettering Jackson. Go with the commuter tax. Lower sales taxes and car tag fees.

Meredith

Aug 10 2010

If this is enacted, there will be a FLOOD of businesses leaving Jackson, rest assured.

bill_jackson

Aug 10 2010

I'm of the opinion that commuter taxes will drive more businesses out of the city. Surely, an argument can be made that the burden of road maintainence is on city residents through our taxes, while city-working suburbanites are not paying. Still, with so much resentment towards Jackson from its suburban communities, as well as the state legislature who could care less about what happens to the city, I don't see this passing at all.

golden eagle

Aug 10 2010

Golden- don't the commuters pay for road maintainence in Jackson through their car tag fees or does just Jackson property taxes pay for roads? That would be the only tax commuters aren't paying. I find it funny Lumumba complaining about water. Doesn't he know that the commuter's employers have paid for the water they use?,LOL Gonna tax them cause they got to pee at work, geesh. If I owned a business in Jackson and they passed this I would be looking to move out of town first chance I got.

BubbaT

Aug 10 2010

Golden- don't the commuters pay for road maintainence in Jackson through their car tag fees or does just Jackson property taxes pay for roads? That would be the only tax commuters aren't paying. I'm not sure how that really works. I have to dig out my car tag receipt to see what exactly what I'm paying for.

golden eagle

Aug 10 2010

I think the ad valorem tax is supposed to be for the roads and bridges, or qoute on qoute local municipalities. This is another argument for another day!!! Our tax code in regards to personal vehicles is so out of whack, its a source of some of my major frustration with Mississippi.

Duan C.

Aug 11 2010

This tax would easily negate all of the recent progress we've made in Jackson. If it annoys you that Butler Snow and Cellular South left Jackson for Ridgeland, just wait until we start taxing people for doing business in Jackson! How much money has it cost us since we lost just those two businesses? I would, however, love for the City Council to find a way to reduce the price of my car tag! I have a feeling that isn't ever going to happen regardless of the city's revenue status.

Dave Coleman

Aug 11 2010

I was one of those urbanites trying to always cheer for Jackson but with the water issues every six months, increasing rent, and lack of amenities I've moved to Ridgeland! Streets are good, I have water, its cleaner, and more amenities. Jackson needs to focus on bringing businesses instead of pushing taxes on citizens every chance they get. Hell, their lucky we still want to work in Jackson w/ the emergence of suburban office parks.

A. Theodore

Aug 11 2010

I would die if I had to spend eight hours a day in a suburban office park. I honestly don't know how people do it. Doesn't sound like you're the city type, A. Sounds like you're right where you ought to be. Enjoy.

DonnaLadd

Aug 11 2010

Donna, you overlooked some key points A. Theodore made. 1) Our water is brown half of the year- Ridgeland's is not. 2) Our streets do suck. Even when they pave them they leave out man hole collars, or just have to rip a hole in it a week later to fix a busted pipe. The repaired hole is usually not flush. 3)Ridglend, Madison, and Flowood are cleaner cities. You can't argue about this. It is fact. 4) They do have more amenities, and sidewalks. We cant even walk or bike in Jackson without being in the streets.

Mark Ellis

Aug 12 2010

Mark, I didn't "overlook" anything. I prefer city life to the suburbs. I hate commuting. People walk in my neighborhood all the time, on sidewalks and not. "Cleaner" is a relative term. Certainly, sitting in traffic and exhaust is not "clean"; I live .9 miles from work; my carbon footprint is very light. As for amenities, again that is relative. To me, the city of Jackson has many more amenities, although I certainly do some things in the suburbs (like shop at Repeat Street.) I live and do business in the entire metro and all of Jackson. My heart is and will remain in the city, as will most of my dollars, although not all. I'm not convincing you or anyone to do the same, but like Kaze, I will challenge attempts to bash the city unfairly, as it hurts the entire state and certainly our bedroom communities. At this point, however, there is not nearly as much need to do that as there was eight years ago. Jackson is "in" now, and there is a united effort to keep it this way. And just because some suburbanites prefer it not to be that way doesn't mean a damn thing will change the loyalty a growing group of people, and MANY young people, feel about Jackson's capital city. We're here to stay. Cheers.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

Mark: Wading through the irony of your own smugness (everyone gets to edit themselves around here, pardner), I'd say, yes, you're making the standard-issue points about the 'burbs. But I'm not sure you're hitting with 100% accuracy: (1.) Yes, Jackson's water system is taxed, in part by years of inadequate funding and perhaps leadership. YEARS meaning decades. And don't forget Jxn's water and sewer serves both surrounding communities, tons of non-profits and massive state government resources. (2.) The roads are a problem -- Yazoo clay plus significant volume plus dwindling resources. The exact sort of issue that a commuter tax (which I'm not for) or Payment of Lieu of Taxation (which I am for) would address. (3.) "Cleaner" maybe, but not necessarily more attractive. Give me Fondren funky over the absolute *mess* that is -- for instance -- Madison Ave meets Hwy 51, including the CVS Parthenon, the seas of parking and the bumper-to-bumper one-lane roads back to civilization. (4.) The street is where a bike should be. I hear you on the walking -- I'd like more sidewalks, too. And Ridgeland and the reservoir have nice trails -- but Flowood? I don't know, but I'm guessing maybe not? Plus, a grid system is much friendlier to walking and biking than the suburban limited-access road metrics. Try riding a bike on Old Fannin Road in an effort to actually *get* somewhere and compare it to, say, getting from Belhaven to Downtown.

Todd Stauffer

Aug 12 2010

"CVS Parthenon" -- snicker.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

I'm with Todd - I don't like the commuter tax, but I would support a Payment in Lieu of Taxation plan for ALL of the state government buildings in Jackson. This crucial issue is the MAIN REASON we don't have enough tax income to keep our roads and our water lines in shape. The whole state is leaning on us for FREE, basically, to support their civic needs, then turning around and making fun of us for being behind. It's bad behavior ,pure and simple. PS - I hate traffic. I'd rather drive freely on a bad road then be bumper to bumper on a great road.

Izzy

Aug 12 2010

By the way, the "back to civilization" line was harsh -- I take it back. But I will say this -- if you live in the Jackson Metro and have more than a 10-15 minute commute (and you don't live on that farm that you've always dreamed of) then you've made your own decisions. It is a *design* issue in those suburbs (low density use of cheap land) that makes for those winding two-lane country highways that back up even when you're just trying to get to the grocery store. Smarter growth would benefit both Jackson and its "bedrooms."

Todd Stauffer

Aug 12 2010

I second Izzy on PILT. And I've never commuted. Hate it. Life is too short to spend a big chunk of it in traffic. But that's just me.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

"CVS Parthenon" -- snicker Yes! I was wondering if I were the only who got the feeling of walking into an old Greek agora every time I see that store. I wonder if Socrates and Plato work there.

golden eagle

Aug 12 2010

Actually, Flowood does have bike paths along Hugh Ward Pkwy (with more coming). And no, "cleaner" is not a relative term.

bill_jackson

Aug 12 2010

Your declaring that it isn't a relative term doesn't make it gospel, Bill. Obviously, it's a relative term. There is no one definition of "clean"; therefore, it is relative. That is a fact.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

(1.)" Yes, Jackson's water system is taxed, in part by years of inadequate funding and perhaps leadership." Well they had money to run a 40 something inch pipe from the rez. to downtown. And I know progressives want to call it progress, but by not taking care of the citizens first it's robbing peter to pay paul. (2.) "The roads are a problem -- Yazoo clay plus significant volume plus dwindling resources." The reasons the roads suck is because of poor or faulty road preparation. That will always be the case as long as the city has to use the cheapest bid, rather than the best bid. Clay issues can be overcome. One way would be to insure better drainage. Simply top coating an expansive soil, and not addressing what caused it to expand leads nowhere. Due to poor leadership this will not happen. I agree with the rest. Especially the bikes on the road part.

Mark Ellis

Aug 12 2010

Donna Ladd wrote: "Your declaring that it isn't a relative term doesn't make it gospel, Bill. Obviously, it's a relative term. There is no one definition of "clean"; therefore, it is relative. That is a fact." Yes, Donna, you do have a low carbon footprint. I was talking about trash though. As in, Jackson trashy stretch of I-55 cleans up once you cross the county line. Therefore, I deduce Jackson to be a trash pit compared to Madison. I also think admitting it is the only way to start cleaning it up. Leslie McLemore apparently felt the same. He did start a city wide clean up. Then his crews left the orange plastic bags in the gutters of ridgewood till they turned yellow, then white. Now they are gone. Now only the trash remains in neat little piles right where it was left. That's not clean, relative to Madison.

Mark Ellis

Aug 12 2010

Ah, trash, you should have said so. The word "clean" means lots of things to lots of people. Frankly, so does "trash," when you think about it. Me, I find lots of rows of unplanned or considered development with cheap siding and storefronts and chain store after chain store trashy. And I find Madison rather sterile and not especially charming, and don't really get the point of shlepping out there every day, although I sure don't care if people do. (I've lived in charming places, too, like the island of Nantucket. Madison ain't no Nantucket. It doesn't allow big chain stores, much less gas stations posing as castles. Smile.) But I'll assume you mean garbage on the sides of the streets. I see that everywhere in the metro. Mississippi still has some bad habits about trashing the sides of the roads, it seems, and that one sure isn't limited to the city. Also, one of my favorite places I've lived is the East Village in NYC back during the '80s. And to be honest, it was such an exciting, culturally interesting place that I seldom noticed the trash on the streets (except when it got really hot; ew.) All this arguing over "clean" semantics takes us back to the same place: there are different types of people in the world: some like suburban lifestyles; others are urban warriors like many of us on this site and in Jackson. We like fighting for our city where a mixture of people live and work together and where we can get home in five minutes, and not commute and dodge so many people driving and texting while driving (though we get it some here). I feel much safer in the city because I actually know what real dangerous statistics look like (as long as you aren't involved with or purchasing illegal drugs, you tend to be safer in cities than driving to and from suburbs every day), and I choose not to live in fear anyway. Life is too short and wonderful than to spend it paranoid and angry all the time. So with that, I'm sick of defending my choices to you boys. I frankly don't care what you think about my love of the city, and I suspect you're right where you belong out there. People in Jackson have let city-bashers talk us down too much over the years; y'all opinions really don't matter to us these days. We're on a roll whether bedroom commuters like it or not. Cheers.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

And Mark, you mentioned I-55; have you driven north on Highway 51 lately starting at County Line Road?

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

The reasons the roads suck is because of poor or faulty road preparation. That will always be the case as long as the city has to use the cheapest bid, rather than the best bid. Clay issues can be overcome. One way would be to insure better drainage. Simply top coating an expansive soil, and not addressing what caused it to expand leads nowhere. Due to poor leadership this will not happen. Well...I'm not going to totally disagree, but I think you're simplifying things. I grew up in Dallas. Everybody's foundation cracked, everybody's walls cracked, everybody's street cracked. Maybe that was the tech 30 years ago and they've solved all that -- but what I remember is that when I was growing up they'd regularly re-pave the main arteries (Forest, Royal, Preston, Hillcrest -- hey to anyone from the old 'hood) and less-regularly re-pave our residential streets. Everybody's parents got "pier and beam" foundation upgrades every 10-15 years or whenever you decided to sell the house. Assuming that building roads on Yazoo clay is, in fact, harder than building them on not-Yazoo clay, then there's the suggestion that Jackson's streets have to be maintained more frequently and vigilantly than elsewhere...even if they do have good drainage. That takes money. One question... is the "lowest bidder" assertion correct? There's a good chance that I don't know what I'm talking about here, but didn't MDOT do the recent work on Woodrow Wilson, Old Canton, etc.? (If Donna would let me requisition reporters for my own blog discussion purposes then I could get this research done. ;-) Are we talking MDOT leadership? Or when you say "leadership" do you mean Jackson's mayor and council? Fortification is a mess and it's been a roller-coaster forever, but it's also going through a rather lengthy redesign process where it should end up very nice. It's been six or seven years since High Street was redone and I don't see it buckling and falling apart. Some money was spent there, the job was done and we're enjoying the results. State Street needs to be maintained by the STATE; it's ridiculous for them to handle it everywhere but in Jackson. That kind of fluff needs to stop. In one respect I totally *agree* -- I hate to see the City tear up good streets to fix water mains and then leave all this red clay and barriers everywhere. Maybe that is leadership and attention to detail -- if you're going to fix city streets like they're country roads, you're going to end up with a city that looks country. I'm going to have to take a drive around the Metro and really see what I think, though... seems to me there are plenty of "gut-check" roads around Ridgeland and Madison, particularly off the beat path. It's just that out there we're willing to accept a little more "country" on the side roads as long as the arteries are nice and smooth.

Todd Stauffer

Aug 12 2010

Funny, this link just popped up in a @BoomJackson tweet. Rather apropos for this thread. Here's a money section: Along Kercheval Street, as you approach from the Detroit side, the last structure is a St. Vincent de Paul thrift shop that collects cast-off household goods and clothes for poor families. It’s reminiscent of so many of the streets of today’s Detroit, gap-toothed scenes with rundown remnants of elegant homes and apartment buildings looking marooned in a tide of vacant lots. But there’s the line — not to be missed, as the sidewalk turns from scruffy concrete to picturesque brick, accompanied by a soothing row of locust trees. And cheek-by-jowl with the thrift store, the Grosse Pointe side offers an antiquarian bookshop that looks straight out of London with displays of leather-bound classics in its windows This kind of city-suburban divide raises disturbing questions, not only about urban decline but also about our shrinking sense of the common good. Through years of travel, the only comparable experience was crossing from East to West Berlin in the days before Germany reunited. But the Detroit-Grosse Pointe boundary poses an even more stark contrast between deprivation and prosperity — all within the boundaries of the same nation. One wonders how much longer one would wait for an ambulance or police car to answer a 911 call in Detroit. What are the schools like in suburban Grosse Pointe compared to the city? Matters of life and death, your children’s hope for the future or their despair, can depend upon on which side of the line you live. A society dedicated to the common good — to the ideal of the commons — would not accept such disparities with a simple shrug. The whole region would share public services and social responsibilities. No community would be allowed to sink so deep into devastation — no matter how profound its problems. In Copenhagen, for instance, the wealthy northern suburbs long supported revitalization efforts in the inner city through tax revenues. Now that the central city is thriving — a remarkable comeback that’s being emulated in other metropolitan regions around the world — it’s now urban dwellers’ turn to help revive the region’s poorer suburbs. Even in the U.S., this kind of tax sharing goes on across city lines. In the Twin Cities, each of the 180 local municipalities contributes a portion of its commercial-industrial property tax revenues — 37 percent on average across the region, amounting to $424 million this year. The fund are then apportioned to communities on the basis of financial need. The center cities and lower income suburbs in Twin Cities region draw on these funds to bolster schools and public services, which explains why you don’t see any shocking differences passing from a blue-collar community to an upscale one. These kind of policies acknowledge the obvious fact that a metropolitan area is a single organism — and municipal boundaries are mere abstractions, arbitrary lines sketched on a piece of paper. But in the current anti-tax, anti-commons political climate, when the idea of the common good can’t be heard above the shouting, regionalist policies like those found in Copenhagen or even the Twin Cities are not going to be enacted any time soon. That’s where the Kresge Foundation comes in. Kresge, based in suburban Troy, along with a number of other foundations in the Detroit region and around the country, is dedicated to helping revive the city through an initiative called Re-imagining Detroit 2020. More on this Citiwire link, including ideas for solutions.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

OK, a smidgen more from that link; good stuff: The ambitious goals include improvements for public schools, major sustainability initiatives, cultural programs, a light rail line along the city’s spine (Woodward Avenue), and local business development. The thrust of this effort is the conviction that Detroit is not a basket case, even if it has sometimes suffered corrupt and inept political leadership. It’s still vital community, even if it is caught up in a complicated tangle of economic disinvestment, racial mistrust, crime concerns and overdependence on automobiles. And it’s important to note that inner-city residents will not be the only beneficiaries if Re-imagining Detroit’s plans bear fruit. No metropolitan area can thrive with a withering city at its core. Even before the near-collapse of the auto industry in 2008, the Detroit area — studded with wealthy suburbs that are worlds apart from the problems of the inner city — was not keeping pace economically with other regions where the central cities were prospering.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

I like that Twin Cities model of revenue-sharing among its communities. I can imagine the hell that would be raised if it were proposed here, though.

golden eagle

Aug 12 2010

Right, golden. We're still too busy fighting the Civil War here. But we can get there. We sure the hell won't if we don't believe we can, and stop giving Jackson-bashers all the power (which we've done, thankfully). We've got to look for big ideas and hop to it.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

BTW, all, if you're interested in more big-idea links like that piece, follow @boomjackson on Twitter. We're curating big-idea and business stuff for you there, as well as stories about smart (and sometimes dumb) development in and around Jackson.

DonnaLadd

Aug 12 2010

I would die if I had to spend eight hours a day in a suburban office park. I honestly don't know how people do it. Unfortunately, I have to do it. And off Highland Colony to top it off. At least it's near West County Line and I don't have to get on I-55 or I-220 unless I choose to do so. But at least as much of my paycheck as possible is spent in Jackson.

golden eagle

Aug 12 2010

Actually, Flowood does have bike paths along Hugh Ward Pkwy (with more coming). I spend a fair bit of time in different parts of this town on sales calls and distribution issues... and I got to thinking... where is this biking and walking accessible Flowood that's being talked about on this thread. I'm not saying it's not THERE, I'm just saying that, yeah, tell me that Ridgeland has good trails and access to the Trace, etc., and I'm the first one to agree. (Indeed, I'd like to see downtown Jackson connected up the Pearl right-of-way to Ridgeland and beyond for scores-to-hundres of miles of biking and hiking potential that integrates the Trace.) But Flowood? Here's Flowood Drive (486) near what Google believes is the "center" of Flowood: http://tinyurl.com/38d74ad (If you actually look at these links you might want to right-click them into a new window or tab on your browser...) Here's Flowood Drive further up behind the hospital (walk to restaurants, or the convenience store?): http://tinyurl.com/2wq8cfr Katherine Drive (walk around the office parks for a little mid-day exercise?): http://tinyurl.com/36uzdrp Jumped over to where the Y is in Flowood (a little outdoor exercise?): http://tinyurl.com/2vsqza7 Found some nice residential stuff back up in that area (still no sidewalks...and see that Stop sign...I'd love to sit and watch traffic blow through that thing every day. Even when the sign says "stop," that slowly curvin' road just says "Go, Baby, Go!"): http://tinyurl.com/2f7k8lh I DID find a sidewalk over on Winners Circle in front of the library: http://tinyurl.com/34czy7d Which ends on Old Fannin, crosses the road and enters this subdivision here: http://tinyurl.com/2ao5h5r Only I find that it ends on the other side of the subdivision's entrance: http://tinyurl.com/29w9t63 (Presumably this is nice for kids who skateboard or ride a push scooter from this subdivision to the library.) Oh, and on the other side of Winner's Circle, at Flowood Drive... well, that's Where The Sidewalk Ends: http://tinyurl.com/3ywegj5 Which is apropos for a library, no?

Todd Stauffer

Aug 12 2010

Yes, Donna, I have driven N. on 51 recently. I've driven down Riverside more though. It's been just that bad since I was at Bailey. See while you were living in Soho and Maine, I was here in Jackson. Maybe you, while caught up in hanging with trannies in village, missed some of it's worst times. You've come here, you claim to be progressive, and you think we're all hicks. Fine. But here is some reality first. There were lots of things that drove whites to Madison. Horribly violent crimes were one. No one did anything about it, or couldn't, that was another. It was sad for Jackson. The cops are so pathetic (not all of them), and have been for years, that they lack the desire to actually solve any crimes. I know, I have about five case cards. I have never, ever been contacted by the department. Here is an awesome story detailing how you can be killed for being white, and how the cops here won't do crap, unless they have to. Read this and ask yourself, could this drive a good white guy to the burbs? Or are they all just racist who are looking for better roads and water supplies? The Mississippi Parole Board granted parole to Cedric Morris, one of two men convicted of killing Millsaps student Brad Dew in 1992, nearly a year ago on December 8, 2008. Morris was convicted by a Hinds County jury of murdering Dew on May 21, 1993 and sentenced to life in prison. Lamar Phillips pled guilty to murder and is still serving a life sentence. Dew left The Mosquito and was driving home on West Street. Phillips and Morris were in a vehicle next to Dew at a stoplight. They said a few words to him and chased Dew down West Street while shooting at his truck. Phillips and Morris handed the gun back and forth to each other as they took turns shooting at Dew. Phillips fired the fatal shot, which entered Dew’s body and nicked the aorta, killing Dew. His truck crashed into a home on West Street and Mitchell. The Jackson Police Department claimed Dew fell asleep at the wheel and crashed into the house. Several of Dew’s friends went to the junkyard to examine the truck. They found several bullet holes in the truck and notified the police and the media. Their findings forced JPD to re-investigate the crash. The Clarion-Ledger reported on July 6, 1992: “Police maintain darkness cloaked the crime scene the night Dew’s pickup crashed, causing them to miss the bullet holes initially. They contend they investigated the crash thoroughly afterward.” The police eventually arrested Phillips and Morris. Phillips bragged to his friends he killed a white boy and killed someone else with the same gun six days later. Cynthia Speetjeens prosecuted the case for the Hinds County District Attorney’s office. Phillips agreed to a plea bargain and was sentenced to life in prison. The plea bargain was controversial as many thought the state should have sought the death penalty. A Hinds County grand jury indicted Morris. The indictment stated Morris “did...kill and murder Bradley Morris Dew.” I loved how the cops didn't see the bullet holes, and no one on West St. reported gunshots. I love how no one charged the black guy with violating someone's civil rights. And he bragged about killing a white guy. But, we can talk about more. Remember when Robert Linsey Shot and killed Giles Bryant outside the Yana club? Another extremely brutal execution style murder. Remember that? Or were you too busy snapping your fingers to some really progressive jazz?

Mark Ellis

Aug 12 2010

See while you were living in Soho and Maine, I was here in Jackson Mark, if you're going to get all snarky because I dared leave Mississippi for a while, at least get it right. I never lived in Maine, although Nantucket is in Massachusetts. I lived there for several months to be a deejay at a club there; I wasn't one of the uber-rich residents; I was "the help" and lived in the band house. (Maine is a sore subject, though: I've been to 47 states, and Maine is the only one of the Lower 48 that I haven't been to, even though I've tooled around much of New England. Just didn't get there. Plan to soon, though.) And Soho is not the East Village, where I lived mostly, although I was on the Upper West Side while I was at Columbia. Todd and I did sublet an amazing loft for really cheap for two months in southern Soho just before that area blew up into trendville, too. I'm not a big fan of Soho; truth be known, it's a bit sterile for my taste: snooty, ultra-rich and, yes, mostly white (and European) now that I think about it. Not my scene, either. The East Village, then at least, was a very diverse community with many Latinos, although now they are being gentrified out. As for the crimes you mention, I am familiar with the details on some of those (I got up to speed on a lot of Jackson's criminal history when I was researching Mr. Melton's history here.) The Bryant case was very interesting, and there's a lot to it, it seems, that you probably aren't aware of, or at least not mentioning. There are many more as well, particularly involving people of color as victims, that you're not mentioning, either. Those crimes are horrible, no doubt (as was, say, the guy who was driving drunk at the reservoir, hit a carload of kids and killed them). But they do not change anything about my safety point: If you are not hanging out with drug dealers, buying drugs (many of which go home to the burbs), selling drugs, or living with drug dealers/heavy users, you are probably statistically safer than commuting back and forth to the suburbs every day. And if you text while driving, or use your cell phone, you add to your statistical likelihood of dying during that daily commute. That is not to say that the crime is not a problem wherever it occurs. But you can't have a serious conversation about doing something about it if you do not (a) understand why it is concentrated in certain areas -- and who helped bring it there (in this city, that is quite the treatise), (b) the role poverty and hopelessness play, (c) the effects of the drug war -- tied to A, of course and (d) the need for quality public education. I don't take anyone seriously on this topic if all they want to do is focus on one or two high-profile cases and not talk about the issues that actually lead to crime because they are not taking the topic seriously. Sensationalism and fear-mongering never stopped a single crime and, in fact, create conditions that foster criminality. Beyond that, your personal snark needs to stop; you're acting like a baby while pretending to have a serious conversation. Post about issues and lose the juvenile insults, or get lost. Your choice. If you're just here to tell me off because I dare to disagree with you, you might as well let that go. No one cares around here. Trolls are a dime a dozen.

DonnaLadd

Aug 13 2010

Oh, and Donna much prefers old country and classic R&B to "progressive jazz." Just FYI. ;-)

Todd Stauffer

Aug 13 2010

Oh, and Donna much prefers old country and classic R&B to "progressive jazz." Just FYI. ;-) This is true. ;-)

DonnaLadd

Aug 13 2010

Now ask yourself this question, "how can I scream injustice, if justice was never, if not ever, served for these very same victims?" Because the fact that there have been unjust cases in the past doesn't justify the continuation of injustice in the present.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 13 2010

Donna Ladd wrote: "I don't take anyone seriously on this topic if all they want to do is focus on one or two high-profile cases and not talk about the issues that actually lead to crime because they are not taking the topic seriously. Sensationalism and fear-mongering never stopped a single crime and, in fact, create conditions that foster criminality" Again you missed my point. I was simply pointing out some reasons people left Jackson, other than their lack of sophisticated taste, or there overt racism. (actually that's Kas on the last one) I'd love for your paper to actually report on this topic extensively, whenever you finish with marital abuse, Chick Balls, and counting black people at county fairs. "The Bryant case was very interesting, and there's a lot to it, it seems, that you probably aren't aware of, or at least not mentioning." Ok what? Did he (the dead kid) use a racial slur? Buy some drugs? Ok- doesn't change the fact that the guys killed him cause he was a white guy. Or at least that's what struck them then, and stuck with them as they bragged about it later.

Mark Ellis

Aug 13 2010

Because the fact that there have been unjust cases in the past doesn't justify the continuation of injustice in the present. Mark, Duan did not say that it did; that's your creation. He is simply pointing out your selective outrage. I'd love for your paper to actually report on this topic extensively, whenever you finish with marital abuse, Chick Balls, and counting black people at county fairs. That statement says a lot about you, Mr. Ellis. For the record, we will never "finish" on the topics of domestic abuse or stop raising money and awareness about the problem as long as it exists, so don't hold your breath in anticipation. As far as nuanced conversations about race and being willing to go where others are afraid to, including into institutions that looks like they exist in the 19th century, that ain't stoppin', either. So you'd best move on if it makes you so uncomfortable. Meantime, if you were actually a serious reader, you would already know that we deal with all sorts of issues that lead to people leaving our city and state, as well as publish widely about ways to reverse those trends. But your belittling statement about "marital abuse and Chick Balls" indicates that you're just in this to be ugly and belittle efforts to actually help our community. I pity you. Ok- doesn't change the fact that the guys killed him cause he was a white guy. Or at least that's what struck them then, and stuck with them as they bragged about it later. Mark, no one here would seriously argue that nobody black has ever killed someone because he or she was white, although I suspect a couple of you might argue that the reverse isn't true, or at least important. What's interesting is that you seem to be using this case as the reason that so many white people have left Jackson -- which would be a not-subtle admission that they are running from black people. Most white people aren't willing to say that out loud these days, so cheers for your honesty. But by that same logic, there should not be a single black person left in the South based on the violence committed by whites against blacks with very little justice rendered -- they should have all run screaming from this violent hellhole of a state ... if we applied your logic universally. Many did, but many did not, staying behind in the state they love and call home to work to make it better. Others didn't have the resources to leave. Still others have fallen victim to the legacy of all that violence, continuing the cycle of violence against others -- usually of their own race, but sometimes not. It is a tragedy. It is history. And it is all of our burden to bear. People who truly care about this city and our state will look squarely at our history and apply its lessons to our present and future. And we must all do that despite those who do not want us to, whether out of shame, denial or plain ignorance of our history (because they, sadly, didn't get taught the whole story in school and at home). But that will always be the case with some people, and it can't stop others from joining forces to lift our state up, rather than keep it on the bottom.

DonnaLadd

Aug 13 2010

I'd love for your paper to actually report on this topic extensively, whenever you finish with marital abuse, Chick Balls, and counting black people at county fairs. Stop covering "marital abuse" and look extensively into the reasons that white people move to Madison? Did I read that right? (Update: Sorry...cross-posting with Donna. Carry on.)

Todd Stauffer

Aug 13 2010

In any case, it wasn't "my" selective outrage, as Duan was responding to Mark Ellis, not me. Perhaps you thought I was Mark Ellis? Anyway, I'm not sure I see the point of his argument. Mark Ellis referenced those cases as reasons people may have been motivated to move out of Jackson. He wasn't suggesting that only white people have been victims of injustice, simply that there are reasons to move to the suburbs apart from being a racist or hating urban hipsters.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 13 2010

FWIW, my posts are directed to Mark Ellis.

DonnaLadd

Aug 13 2010

There's a difference between risk and fear. Even when Jackson's crime was at its worst (precisely when I lived in Jackson) your risk of getting killed in a car accident was still higher than your risk of being murdered. The risk of a car accident made me try to drive carefully, mind the bad weather, and such, but it didn't make me stop driving. Likewise, the risk of crime made me take precautions, watch my back at night, etc., but it didn't make me want to leave the city. So the risk may not have been great, but the FEAR of crime was very real to a lot of people. It's always been an interesting psychological question to me why the risk of crime hits people more viscerally than other risks, when the risk of crime is actually lower than a lot of other everyday risks that we don't react nearly as strongly to.

Mark Michalovic

Aug 14 2010

Maybe people fear crime more than car accidents because there is intent involved when committing a crime, as to where no one intentionally wants to cause a car accident. What's ironic is that car accidents tend to be more random than, say, murder. Most murderers and their victim tend to know each other in some capacity. Plus, the media pumps up violence in their newscasts for ratings and readers.

golden eagle

Aug 14 2010

When I was a commuter to Jackson, (I now live here), I spent a lot of money here. Commuters support local businesses - lunch, groceries, gas, entertainment, etc. I will probably leave Jackson soon, and I think a commuter tax would make me look "closer to home" for a job. Which means my disposable income would stay there as well. It seems as though Jackson is really good at shooting itself in the foot - repeatedly.

Krystal

Aug 14 2010

Right, Krystal. That's what worries me about commuter taxes. Businesses will leave and for the ones that don't, many of their employees will find jobs outside the city. Not only will we see less property tax assessed, but sales tax collections will go down too. In addition, what if surrounding communities want to play tit-for-tat and impose their own commuter taxes? I live in Jackson but work in Ridgeland. I know I'm definitely not the only one either. This is too much of a slippery slope.

golden eagle

Aug 14 2010

I can't even follow the logical progression of that last post, Duan. What is it exactly that you are trying to say me? My position is that no amount of previous history, racially motivated or otherwise, justifies another murder. If you want to argue that point, feel free to, but I can't make heads or tails of your last comment, other than perhaps you taking issue with some unspecified "tone" in my comments.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 15 2010

Duan, the mere fact that you're unable or unwilling to differentiate between what Mark Ellis posted and what I have posted makes it very difficult to decipher your comments. Mark Ellis brought up the Dew case -- I did not. As for all your hyperbolic ranting about what "parameters" I'm placing on someone else's thought process, or my "narcissitic" (sic) comments, or the "laziness" of my brain...well, I'm not quite sure how to respond. I don't find it to be terribly unusual to point out when one has difficult understanding or following someone else's argument. In fact, I'd say it happens fairly frequently here and most places that I've read or participated in debates and discussions. But I can't say I've ever seen someone take it quite so personally as you just did.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 16 2010

OK, all, let's get this thread back on track. No trolling for a fight, no personal asides and insults of others, only comments that are substantive and add something to the conversation. Hint: If you don't have a new fact or discussion point about the topic, just don't post. No one really cares what you personally think about another person here. Resist.

DonnaLadd

Aug 16 2010

The really interesting thing is that I think most of the people arguing with each other seem to be in agreement on the commuter tax. From what I've read, both the city residents and the suburban residents are against it.

Mark Michalovic

Aug 16 2010

While this forum is not representative of the entire metro area, I'd be willing to believe that most Jackson residents (or at least a large minority or plurality) would support a commuter tax. Suburban residents would surely be against it--perhaps by a very large margin.

golden eagle

Aug 16 2010

On that note -- I'll expand a bit on the original point I was making. I am not ignorant or unaware of Mississippi's racial history and the massive injustices perpetrated on the black population. I understand the frustration that some may feel when it appears that "suddenly" white folks are interested in justice, now that the victim is one of their own. And I also understand that being "outraged" at a modern crime in which a white person is the victim doesn't involve the same kind of courage required to demonstrate public outrage during years past when a black person was the victim. But I will maintain that the best way for everyone to move forward (and not just "get over" past injustices) is to seek justice in modern and past crimes. Donna played a role in just such an effort at seeking justice for past crimes. It wasn't simply an effort to remind us of the past (though there's a place for that), nor was it an effort to diminish the outrage at modern or white-victim crimes by comparing them to the past. It was an effort at actually bringing real moral and legal justice to a guilty man. Likewise, seeking real justice in current crimes (regardless of the skin color of the perpetrator or victim) is the only way to ensure that the progress we've made isn't lost. This remains a bit off-topic, but I hope you'll allow it, Donna.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 16 2010

MarkG, I appreciate your comment about my work and apparent understanding of the need to right past wrongs. But it was about more than that: Our cold-case work is also a way to tell the stories of the past so that people can be informed about why certain injustices still exist and to help us avoid mistakes of the past. Also, who here has argued against seeking justice in current crimes? I haven't seen that. It is so frustrating to see defensive white folks conflate the point when someone (like Duan or myself) points out selective outrage about crime. Pointing out the inconsistency is is no way saying that "current" crimes do not deserve justice. AND, pointing out the roots of today's crime in the black community is not the same thing as saying that (black) criminals should not be prosecuted. I wish people would pay closer attention to these points instead of just kneejerk defensiveness. It would be easier to have intelligent conversations about it all if so. And this point isn't entirely off-topic if you believe, as I do, that our race history informs problems and attitudes of today, such as state v. Jackson disputes. And Duan makes an excellent point, all. In order not to troll for a fight or look like you're just a jerk, respond to someone's specific statements. Learn to quote a statement (in italics, preferably) and then respond to that statement underneath adding facts, links, analysis to support your topic. Todd and I have decided not to turn on comments going forward that we deem as troll comments. So do not waste your time. Again, click here for a better understanding of trolls and their annoying habits. Carry on.

DonnaLadd

Aug 17 2010

MarkG, I appreciate your comment about my work and apparent understanding of the need to right past wrongs. But it was about more than that: Our cold-case work is also a way to tell the stories of the past so that people can be informed about why certain injustices still exist and to help us avoid mistakes of the past. As I noted when I commented that it wasn't simply an effort to remind us of the past (indicating that it included, but was not limited to, that particular facet). Also, who here has argued against seeking justice in current crimes? I haven't seen that. Nobody has, so far as I know, and I wasn't claiming that that was anyone's position. My point was simply that I view attempts to compare levels of outrage as mostly wasted effort, better spent on actually seeking justice for crimes both past and present. And this point isn't entirely off-topic if you believe, as I do, that our race history informs problems and attitudes of today, such as state v. Jackson disputes. My mistake; I thought your post was intended to return things to the commuter tax issue specifically -- I wasn't sure if I was still "out of bounds". And Duan makes an excellent point, all. In order not to troll for a fight or look like you're just a jerk, respond to someone's specific statements. Learn to quote a statement (in italics, preferably) and then respond to that statement underneath adding facts, links, analysis to support your topic. I generally do, as I'm sure you are well aware of from previous discussions. I didn't in this case because I honestly couldn't discern a line of argumentation in Duan's post above -- and I'm still fuzzy on what point he was making in that particular comment. I'm a very linear thinker, and when an argument isn't laid out in a linear fashion, I have a harder time understanding it. Just to bring things full circle, I'll add that I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to have no problem with the idea of a commuter tax, and only don't support it because they think it's unpopular or practically imprudent. Nobody else cares about a local government levying a tax on someone other than its own constituents? This doesn't seem troublesome? That a local government would see fit to monetarily discriminate against people seeking to do legal business, simply on the basis of their home address?

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 17 2010

@ Mark Geoffriau I really don't have a problem with a commuter tax, because of city's like New York and Chicago, utilize it via toll booths If you look at NYC and Chicago by day, then you look at the downtown areas of the aformentioned cities by night and over the weekend, the population load varies greatly. You have to look at the additional stress placed on your infrastructure. I mean we are already paying hefty tags on property taxes and car tags - for example my wife and I paid $2500 last year in property taxes and $800 for both of our car tags, so I want my local government to find ways to can give me some kind of relief. Sorry if you can't see it from my angle

Duan C.

Aug 17 2010

Non-constituents are taxed all the time, often regressively. As Duan points out, that could be a bridge toll -- or it could be something as simple as the sales tax or as targeted as a tax on downtown parking or ferry fees. That said, I think a commuter tax in Jackson would be (a.) counterproductive and (b.) unlikely to pass anyway. The solution, at least in the short-term, is Payment in Lieu of Taxation granted to the city by the state in recognition of all of the government and non-profit infrastructure it's forced to support. Currently UMC makes some of those payments voluntarily; putting that system into place on grand scale could help shore up Jackson's basic services. IMHO, that would be of value to the entire metro (and, arguably, the state). Of course, that'll be tough with the state's budget in crisis as it is -- it would have been a great solution it have in place a decade ago.

Todd Stauffer

Aug 17 2010

Non-constituents are taxed all the time, often regressively. As Duan points out, that could be a bridge toll -- or it could be something as simple as the sales tax or as targeted as a tax on downtown parking or ferry fees. Some of those things may weigh more heavily on commuters than residents as a matter of happenstance, but they aren't specifically discriminatory against non-constituents. Unless, of course, you are suggesting a bridge toll that provides a specific exclusion for people who live on one side of the bridge. In any case, I should clarify that while I find it repugnant that politicians would target non-constituents for tax increases, they are (obviously) free to pursue those methods if they see fit. In fact, that's the beauty of local ordinances -- make it more costly to do business in Jackson, and the businesses will simply go elsewhere in response. How quickly and to what degree that happens depends on how severely city management decides to punish those who live outside the voting district.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 17 2010

Tell a commuter into Manhattan or Boston that the tolls they must pay to commute to work every day aren't designed to even out who is paying for city services, and they might snicker just a bit. Of course they are. It's a user's fee. Again, I'm not saying we should do that, but pretending some sort of "commuter tax" doesn't exist or work is absurd.

DonnaLadd

Aug 17 2010

Who suggested that it doesn't exist? Clearly, many cities are using one. Now, the question of whether it "works"...well, you have to define the purpose more clearly. If the purpose is simply to increase revenue with no secondary effects, I'm willing to bet it can't meet those requirements. If the purpose is to trade some volume of private business in exchange for an increase in city revenue and decrease in the use of city resources, then sure, it can probably meet those requirements. The politicians who pitch these ideas to city residents seem to ignore the real effect it will likely have on the volume of private business.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 17 2010

Mark even if we defined the purposes more clearly, most of your subarbanites of the metro would be cynical in regards to the purpose. I just don't get what and how the state benefits if Jackson fails? Whether it is the city and the bond issue regarding the water pipes? , the stimulus and jobs such as the steps programs? What's up with the threats and strong armed tactics to make this city fail?

Duan C.

Aug 17 2010

I just don't get what and how the state benefits if Jackson fails? Whether it is the city and the bond issue regarding the water pipes? , the stimulus and jobs such as the steps programs? What's up with the threats and strong armed tactics to make this city fail? What statements are you interpreting as threats? So far as I know, private businesses are not under the control of any single individual or group (other than our government, of course) -- nobody has the power to simply make them leave Jackson, or stay in Jackson -- it'll be a million individual decisions made by business owners, based on their own economic and personal priorities. As far as what I think the (unintended) effects may be, it's simply a prediction based on what I believe the incentives and disincentives that accompany a commuter tax to be.

Mark Geoffriau

Aug 17 2010

Mark the word threat is a broad statement, but I will stay with using strong arm tactics - any time the city makes a request for funding or they come up with an idea to generate revenues - cynics and pessimists come out of the wood works, so there are definate undertones to why the city shouldn't do something when it comes to generating revenues but I have yet to hear someone say how they should do something

Duan C.

Aug 17 2010

London has the right idea. They charge a five-pound fee for every car driving into the city. You see, they don't charge commuters. They only charge drivers. Commuters have the option of taking the Underground or the bus, and can avoid the fee if the choose. Motorists, on the other hand, actually like the fee because it has reduced congestion and made driving easier. In Manhattan and Boston (as well as my own Philly) there are bridge tolls, but again, commuters have the option of avoiding the tolls by taking transit. (In Philly, the bridge tolls are actually used to subsidize the transit line that crosses the same bridge.) This is what I'm getting at: I think the biggest cost commuters impose on the city is wear and tear on streets and highways, and traffic congestion. So, like the big cities, it'd be better to charge for driving rather than commuting, and use some of the money to fund better transit so that commuters have other options if they don't want to pay.

Mark Michalovic

Aug 17 2010

Excellent point, MarkM.

DonnaLadd

Aug 17 2010

incentive for a park and ride/light rail? indeed. i'd use it. might mean i'd have to walk a bit to get what i want. and THAT'S never hurt anyone ; )

2599

Aug 17 2010

The exercise is good, and so is the fact that when more people are on foot, they have more chances to bump into each other, meet, and socialize. It builds community, and makes a city livelier. That in turn makes city living a more attractive alternative to commuting for many people, keeping things on-topic. I think that's a better way to draw people into the city than a commuter tax. Of course, I think Jackson is a bit small for light rail, but some rush-hour express buses on the big commuter routes in and out of the city would be a good start.

Mark Michalovic

Aug 17 2010