Jackson Free Press

Feminism. Why is this word considered so foul coming from the mouths of men? It seems like nine times out of 10 when I use this word in a conversation with another man, a thick blanket of awkwardness falls over us.

So many men hate this word. In Mississippi, you will find a vast majority of men get their feathers ruffled or grow uncomfortable when you use it, even if you're not talking about the tenets of the philosophy itself.

As a male, I happen to think the answer to this question lies in the gross misconception of what feminism means, and what it means to proclaim yourself as a feminist.

First off, every single person in the world alive today has a woman to thank for being here. This alone should make you reconsider why so many women in the world choose to be feminists, right? I mean, if so many women are calling themselves feminists, and they're proud of it, shouldn't that tell you there's probably some legitimacy to it? This leads to my next point.

Feminism is not some clandestine organization designed to castrate and enslave seas of men in a greater scheme for female world domination. Feminists are not the female equivalent to Dan Brown's Priory of Sion in "The Da Vinci Code." This misperception might make for lewd chauvinistic humor, but it's far from fact.

While it's easy to see the link between the words "feminine" and "feminism," what it really means to be a feminist is simply admitting that, historically, women have not been treated as equals. I can comprehend, at least tenuously, the notion in which one might assume feminism is professing women as superior to men, but this is far, far from the truth.

Subjecting the opposite sex to hundreds of years of social, physical, emotional, sexual, mental and economic oppression has been the dubious undertaking of the male sex, not the other way around.

This isn't to say there aren't feminists who wave the flag of the good-ship feminism to rally others under a plethora of causes. There are radicals in every belief system: radical Islamists, radical Christians, radical feminists, radical vegans, etc.

Allowing fringe believers to convince you about an entire philosophy would be like publicly decrying a mosque being built in your neighborhood because you hate terrorists. OK, perhaps a poor example.

Allowing PETA to form your impression of every person who's a vegetarian, vegan or meat-conscious dieter is equally as absurd. Just because I prefer tofu doesn't mean I'm going to sling red paint on your fancy new mink.

Saying you're a feminist doesn't oblige you to become a man-servant to every woman you see, but it does imply you should treat every woman you meet as equal to any man you know, something you should be doing regardless.

Obviously you have to be mindful of some nuances. Calling yourself a feminist means you actually believe its underlying train of thought. Professing feminism doesn't mean you get to invite yourself to the powder room.

I'll save my rant on the deletion of the gender binary system for another time, but seriously, how can you read the history books and not come to terms with feminism?

Not until 1920 did women gain suffrage, about 50 years after another suffrage-expanding amendment, the 15th Amendment, made it illegal for states to prevent citizens to vote based on "race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

Don't be mistaken. The 19th Amendment (the one that gave women the vote) didn't just come overnight; it took about five years for the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate to finally ratify it after several votes. Bureaucratic and administrative lag aside, that's a seriously long time.

Ironically, we like to think of ourselves as a "developed country." Compared to other countries, such as Saudi Arabia where women still aren't allowed to vote, this might seem the case. In this day and age, it is no longer ethically permissible to be content with the status quo.

A recent Clarion-Ledger article revealed Dr. Mary Currier, Mississippi's newly appointed health officer, is being paid $200,000 annually for her services, which is about $30,000 less than her male predecessor. This inequality in pay shouldn't be too startling. Even after all these years, salaries for women still aren't close to equal with men's salaries.

But why am I so adamant about being a feminist, or dispelling the rumors associated with it? Me, a dude of the highest canon of dudery?

I can honestly say that it feels like a moral imperative. I agree wholeheartedly with the tenets and a need to proclaim feminism is something about which I feel very strongly. And my mama would be proud.

Previous Comments

ID

155974

Comment

(loud clapping) Thank you Byron as a feminist I thank you and as a women who has dated a male feminist I am sure he would thank you too! I don't know why people don't get it but they don't.

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-11T23:33:00-06:00

ID

156069

Comment

Bravo Byron. I hear it all the time from women: "I'm not a feminist." Someone has to explain that to me. How can you be a woman and not be a feminist? That's like saying you're a minority but don't identify as ____ (fill in the blank: black, Latino, etc.) On the day that all people can actually say that women are treated with the same respect and fairness in all walks of life and under all circumstances, that's the time to stop being a feminist. That day is still a long way off.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-16T21:17:46-06:00

ID

156072

Comment

hey bq2000, you may not see this in your workplaces, but the stats are there- women do not earn equal pay for equal work. If you want data, there is some available at this website: http://www.cluw.org/programs-payequity.html Scroll down to these PDF files - bottom left of the page: More about the wage gap: * The Gender Wage Gap from the Institute for Women's Policy Research * Men Out-earn Women in Almost All Occupations from the Institute for Women's Policy Research * Gender Pay Gap by State from the American Association of University Women * Wage Gap exists in every state from the National Women's Law Center

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T09:39:41-06:00

ID

156073

Comment

The link on "Gender Pay Gap by State" will show you stats that even in Mississippi there are significant gaps in pay.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T09:41:42-06:00

ID

156074

Comment

Also I don't see the benefit in pitting one group of historically oppressed people against another, like, who has it worse? One person's struggle does not negate another person's struggle. If you ask me it is women of color who get the shortest end of the stick!

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T09:43:16-06:00

ID

156084

Comment

And it's not just the pay gap, Banquan. Women are disproportionately affected by poverty (especially single mothers, especially women of color). Women are still stereotyped as to their abilities and the types of jobs they're suited for. Also, lots of men still consider women their property, which is why the incidence of domestic violence is skewed dramatically against women. I could go on, but like any other type of discrimination, using your personal experience can be deceiving. When you look at the bigger picture, it becomes more evident. I wrote this story about women's issues during the presidential elections. Lots of research went into the story.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-17T11:18:22-06:00

ID

156085

Comment

um, until we have had 1) a female president or many 2) equal # of female senators & CEOs 3) female ministers in the Baptist church and female priests in the Catholic church I am simply not going to believe you that everything is different now. I can see this issue gets you worked up - there are "hot button" issues to me, too, though this isn't one of them. To me, the facts are the facts, and no amount of anger or pushiness, or pointing to female employees or female Labor secretaries is going to change the facts. Yes, things are getting better and that is great. I don't see why I cannot work for women's equality and work for human rights together, at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think they are. There is much work being done right now on poverty worldwide and the relationship of the treatment of women & their ability to earn money and how that plays into systematic poverty. The issues are intertwined.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T11:19:49-06:00

ID

156086

Comment

Don't even get us started on how women are treated in other countries ... female circumcision, no suffrage, being forced to cover themselves from head to toe, having no property rights, inability to inherit, 'honor' rapes and killings ... the list is endless.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-17T11:26:33-06:00

ID

156088

Comment

I always find it amazing to hear white women and men (period, black or white) have this discussion. When simply but black females have more crap stacked against us than either of the two of you could even fathom. But, it is still very entertaining to see how you figure either one of you can have any idea what this struggle really entails.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T11:54:30-06:00

ID

156091

Comment

Baquan, you can't be this blind. This country is vicious for women, and more so for women of color. No, it's not the Taliban regime, but we are light years from true equality here. One of the biggest problems are the attacks on women who dare to speak their mind (which is a major reason more don't hold public office). There is a story in Glamour magazine's current issue about how women are being viciously attacked online by men posting under fake names. Their bodies are attacked; we're talked about with violent language; we are accused of being angry and crazy and obsessed when we express well-researched opinions. You wouldn't believe the attacks that women who work for me have endured online and in e-mail. It's different from the way men are treated. The very same people will talk very differently about the men who work for and with me, being much more respectful even as they disagree with them. You should do some research on the silencing of women, and just pay closer attention, before declare that everything is fine for us in this country. It's better than it used to be, but like with racism, the haters now use the Internet to hide behind because they don't have the balls to say this kind of stuff with their real names attached (or at least a real-sounding alias.) It's really bad in our state where there are so few women who speak out publicly (look around), but it is a problem across the country and especially on the Internet. The Internet is great for many things, but it has given hateful wimps a way to spew hatred without people knowing who they are. And much of that is directed toward people who are not white men.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-17T12:00:38-06:00

ID

156092

Comment

Queen, maybe you didn't see this part of my earlier post: If you ask me it is women of color who get the shortest end of the stick! We "white people" often think about more then ourselves. That is my whole point here - we don't have to pit one group against the other, and I don't think that advocating for women's rights, or the rights of African Americans have to be seen as one or the other. That's bogus.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:04:53-06:00

ID

156093

Comment

I'm sure gay males would think they have it worse. That's exactly my point here with the argument of who has it worse...everyone thinks their cause is greater, their issue has more volume, my problem is bigger. Who gives a sh!t....if it's wrong it's wrong. Doesn't matter how wrong it is. This is a battle that is only creating a diversion from the issue at hand. As a black woman though, I will tell you that I have a hard time being taken seriously when it comes to being up against men and white women especially professionally. I see women all the time get recognize for work they didn't do just because they are "the" person to pick because everyone else does OR because they are white. Right here in Jackson. It makes me want to throw my hands up and say no one sees what I do. BUT, then I am grounded by the fact that it doesn't matter who gets the recognition, it only matters that I've done the work. And that girl knows she "ain't done sh!t"...one day the rest of Jackson will know it. So, I really can't get too involved in this discussion. I understand it's really serious for many and to some degree I am with this movement. However, I get a bit confused beacuse most of the feminist I know are hard hearted towards men. Now, I am not saying that this is the case for ALL feminist...before yall go there. I'm just saying I am a humanist and I can't pick and choose anything beyond that. It is and always has been second nature for me to fight harder and try harder and to do better than average. Not because I choose to, but because I have to in order to feel worthwhile and to contribute positively to the society I claim. Izzy I didn't see it...I apologize...I really just wanted to pick with Baquan a little bit. :-) But needless to say....I agree with you.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T12:08:25-06:00

ID

156094

Comment

also, to answer your question, I would vote for Obama over Palin any day without any qualms. I don't make it an either/or situation. I personally didn't like Palin's cutesy antics, winking at the camera, all that beauty queen stuff. I prefer a person be judged by the content of his or character, not by their appearance OR gender. That doesn't mean I'm going to lie to myself about how our society treats women, white or of color. I also won't ignore how black men get treated. I'm saying it's not one or the other.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:09:18-06:00

ID

156095

Comment

Queen, I'm fully aware that women of color have it tougher than white women in this country ... and said as much in a post earlier.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-17T12:12:19-06:00

ID

156097

Comment

Well thank you for pointing it out again Ronni. Nice to know you're fully aware.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T12:14:38-06:00

ID

156098

Comment

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Baquan and Queen are both saying something along the lines of this - that being a feminist means you think the struggles of women are more important than any other struggles. Is that what you mean? I may be wrong but that's what I am seeing. I guess what I am saying is, I never the cause of feminism saying that women's rights are the only rights worth fighting for. Instead, I saw feminists as simply saying that women's rights are important. Not "more" important or the "only" important thing. Perhaps that is why we see this differently.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:15:42-06:00

ID

156099

Comment

Izzy I admit to being fuzzy on this topic. I've had this conversation many times and I am still getting into these types of debates. So, I'm yet growing. There is a clear break down here and I am thankful that you brought this up. Because you are right, that is exactly what I have in my mind as what being a feminist is. Otherwise why give any label to it. Of course being a woman, women issues are important. Just like being black, black issues are important. Does that make me a Black-ist which in today's world would be better served as being called a racist...one who is in full support of his/her race. I don't get how the very same people who claim that there shouldn't be separations by race are so easily attached to this particular category which in my mind does the same thing -- divides-- in this case men and women. I do see your point Izzy and I'm just trying to help you see mine. I understand that you are saying that women have rights that need attention and we are being overlooked in many areas. Correct? I completely agree with that. However, there are, just as with any group, many who take this idea and turn it into an attitude of separation. Maybe you have not ever met these fullout types of feminists, but they do exist and those are the ones who I'm concerned with. Not the ones who think as you and I do..that we deserve to be treated equally adn will fight until it happens. I compare this to the radical approaches of Louis Farrakhan. He loves his race and wants black people to thrive - as do I. But he also wants every other race NOT to unless if falls in line with his agenda for the black race. Therefore, I can't get behind him on that. I am all for the progression of women and women fighting for just causes to make our issues known. I'm a woman and I am proud to be a woman. If it is not right, as I stated before, I will fight for it. But, at the same time, I'm not going to take on the attitude that women are better, smarter, should be in a higher place than men. Which, is what I have seen and heard from many who use this label, feminist, to describe themselves. I hope this is a little more clear as to what my thinking is.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T12:26:03-06:00

ID

156101

Comment

it is clear, and thank you for the reply. It gives me personally more food for thought. Perhaps we don't see eye to eye but at least I know where you are coming from, and vice versa.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:32:03-06:00

ID

156102

Comment

that was to Queen, btw

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:32:35-06:00

ID

156103

Comment

I would love to talk to you more about it because as you know I take great pride in growth. I don't by any means claim to have this wrapped up tight in my head. But this is what I've come up with in my head... It's not like this is an issue that I have to face daily. As a matter of fact one of my friends have told me that I am a feminist. She didn't elaborate, but she did say that. So, maybe I just don't understand.... Let's meet and have a chat, Izzy.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T12:35:41-06:00

ID

156104

Comment

So the shoulder of the blame, should not be soley placed on men in regards to some of the complaints some of you have made. BQ hey BQ, me saying that men outnumber women as CEOs or Senators, or presidents is not the same thing as me saying that all men are to blame, or that only men are to blame for this. I would never say that, or think that. Trust me, I have seen firsthand how women hurt each other and play power tripping games with each other. It's called internalized oppression, when people who are oppressed turn on one another rather than fighting the true cause of their suffering. Which is what I hope you and I won't do, also! I think we all contribute to these issues, both men and women. And probably it's gonna take all of us to make any kind of difference.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:36:40-06:00

ID

156105

Comment

hey Queen, I would really like that. A lot. It's complex, and internet can make us sometimes seem one-dimensional. I also don't claim to have the one answer. I just am wary of the word feminist becoming a bad word because my mother fought in the frontlines of this - she dreamed of being a surgeon but could not be one due to the policies of her time. And to me turning the word feminist into a dirty word is letting the bad guys win - like when now people turn the word "christian" into a bad word, I feel the radical right repressive fanatics win. I'd rather fight to define the word Christian in it's original sense - i.e. more like Christ/Jesus. Oh wow, I'm totally off topic now. But lunch sometime? Or Pi?

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:39:26-06:00

ID

156106

Comment

"And probably it's gonna take all of us to make any kind of difference." <<

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T12:41:58-06:00

ID

156108

Comment

"I guess that is why I got heated with the "feminists" movement, because there is only a focus on one particular group and that is white women!?"<<<

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T12:51:15-06:00

ID

156109

Comment

This is really interesting, thank you both for your honesty - I really do appreciate it. Because we can't assume we understand one another until we take some time to listen and to think about it. Two things: 1) I don't see feminists saying that it is men keeping women from advancing. I seem them saying that it is systematic oppression that favors men which keeps them from advancing. Criticizing the system to me is very different from blaming the individual people in the system. It's like me seeing racism in Mississippi from people who weren't educated right. They may be really nice people who are also ignorant and therefore bigoted. I don't want to blame any one group. I mostly want to see why things aren't better and see what I can do to help change that. 2)BQ thank you that is a nice apology and I want to add mine, sorry if I came across as insensitive to your points. What you seem to say is that we can't ignore the struggles still experienced by people of color, and perhaps also that women's advances ought to be recognized. I agree with that. I still think, though that women suffer greatly on the planet. Jimmy Carter addressed this in a recent speech given at the World Parliament of Religion Congress in Australia. I don't htink he meant only white women. I don't mean that either. However I see that some white feminists both in the past and now probably do ignore the needs of communities of color. Good conversation!!!!! Thank you. I had better get back to work now. I will check back later on.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-17T12:52:11-06:00

ID

156110

Comment

Coincidentally, the fabulous C.J. Rhodes just posted this on Facebook: http://www.bvblackspin.com/2010/02/16/black-women-civil-rights/

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-17T12:53:21-06:00

ID

156114

Comment

Queen, I'm not certain if your last response to me was snarky or not; it's hard to tell. Just so we're clear with each other, though, I know exactly the kind of hard-hearted feminist you're talking about. Like all extremists, they tend to grate and don't leave any room for conversation. I don't consider myself a radical extremist of any ilk. We all have lots of roles in our lives, as I'm sure you're aware. I'm a woman, a sister, a daughter, a teacher, an immigrant, a writer, a lover, a friend, a blonde ... like I said, lots of roles. At any given moment, one or more of those roles may take center stage, but that doesn't mean the other roles disappear. And none of those roles make be "better" or worse than anyone else. My thinking is not us vs. them. I am an advocate of social justice in whatever form that takes. To advocate for women doesn't preclude minority and immigrant issues, doesn't preclude the wrongfully imprisoned or those on death row, doesn't preclude the poor, doesn't preclude calling out dishonest politicians or business people, or any of the myriad issues I feel passionately about. I don't make those separations, however I am willing to engage on any level. I also know that I can only speak for myself. I would never presume to speak for you or anyone else. I have my opinions, but that and a buck will get me a cup of coffee.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-17T13:05:48-06:00

ID

156119

Comment

Baquan, your language choices are interesting: you consider your statements to be factual. When the well-informed women on the thread produce information that conflicts with your mindset, you claim to not be attacking them "for their feelings" and claim there needs to be more accountability. With women. I think your perspective may be skewed (and everyone's perspective is skewed) because you (I assume) work for a state agency, where MOST salaries are on public record and fixed to prevent such allegations being leveled at the state itself. While it's fantastic there are a lot of female HR directors in the state, the fact of the matter is that HR is often considered a touchy-feely, emotional field of work. Women's work: smoothing over feelings, vetting prospective employees before they meet more of the administration, lots of paperwork. Is it a difficult job? You bet your @$$ it is, but the perception is that it's the kind of work big important men can trust a woman to do, because it has to do with caring about people and nurturing their potential. It's true that some women are hateful to other women in the workplace, and jockey ahead of one another. It's not even usually a race for the top, but a scrabble to NOT be on the bottom. No one wins. There are more women in the work force than ever before, but I strongly disagree with the idea that women are mostly held back by other women. The more women become mentors and colleagues to one another, the stronger women's networking becomes. Queen, I'm a feminist because when society does not value women and girls, we degrade over half of humanity. If we don't start right there at the chromosomal level, with uplifting our own mothers and valuing the things their mothers and their mothers' mothers endured, where do we start? If you look to several feminist organizations, you'll see their platforms often extend far beyond what most people consider "feminist" issues and well into what you'd probably call humanist issues: There's strong evidence to suggest that sexism and homophobia are strongly related, and I imagine the case can be made for many other -isms. I have a broad range of -isms I try to fight against in word, vote, thought and deed, and I care about these issues because my understanding of the world was deepened by feminist studies. I don't value women's issues over racial issues or immigrant issues or large scale poverty, but we all have favorite topics or sore spots in our personal history, and that's what gives our stories potency and deeper life. I am more educated on women's issues--particularly women's health and reproductive rights--and so I try and put my knowledge and skills to the best use I can.

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2010-02-17T13:29:43-06:00

ID

156120

Comment

If y'all think the feminist movement was only about white women, you need to do your homework. Start with the 2,780,000 results you get when you Google black feminists. And for the record, many feminists piss me off, too, especially if being a feminist is all they care about, and are judgmental toward you if you think wider than that. A white woman on Twitter recently went after the JFP because she claims that we do little women coverage beyond domestic violence, Hitched pieces and fashion. And she made a point of comparing her perceived lack of feminism in the JFP to our coverage of race issues. The worse part was her smug snarkiness in reducing what we do to promote strong women into such an uninformed summary. People like that are useless to me. And I hate that either-or kind of mentality -- no matter who it comes from.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-17T13:31:13-06:00

ID

156122

Comment

Nice post, Deirdra.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-17T13:36:35-06:00

ID

156124

Comment

I'd also suggest that closer reading of what people actually say could keep some of the accusatory tones out of an important thread. I know every woman on this thread, and I know that every one of us knows that black women get a double-whammy of sexism and racism and, thus, have it worse than white women. So let's stipulate that. I also find that when conversations turn toward who has it worse, it's turning away from looking at solutions and people of different situations coming together to help each other. As for the black men vs. black women point Baquan is trying to make: Both have it bad, for many of the same reasons and for different ones. Go read bell hooks if you haven't, Baquan. She can also open the door on your education about black feminism.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-17T13:42:12-06:00

ID

156126

Comment

This is where I always get to and loose every inch of desire to figure it out. Why? Because here comes the judgement and the "i know more than you do attitude". Donna, I DID NOT say that this was only about white women; I said that maybe, if baquan's statement is correct, then this is the reason i don't understand it. Ronni, I don't know if your comment was snarky either, but it doesn't matter. Diedra, thank you for your comments as it seems like you are genuinely trying to assist in making your stance clear to someone who has REPEATED stated here, that I am trying to figure this out. This happens all the time, this teaming up thing and nothing gets resolved. And just for the point, Donna what you stated in your last paragraph is EXACTLY what I've been saying. But....here's where I bow out. I'll try another day to gain a better idea and concept around this.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T13:51:42-06:00

ID

156127

Comment

I didn't say you did, Queen, but there were several comments above indicated misunderstanding that were just slowing down conversation. No one is "teaming up"; other people have opinions and knowledge, too, Queen, and are welcome to express them here. I'm sorry that doesn't sit well with you.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-17T13:59:42-06:00

ID

156129

Comment

I concur....mute argument/discussion.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-17T14:17:16-06:00

ID

156130

Comment

LOL... Nice try Baquan. At least you got in there and mixed it up. You must have quite the set of low hangers. I thought about posting and then remembered what my grandaddy told me, it pretty much mirrored what your's told you. ;-)

Author

WMartin

Date

2010-02-17T14:26:42-06:00

ID

156132

Comment

Baquan, you know and I know that you're deflecting by trying to make me sound like I am spouting unreasonable crazytalk, which is a popular tactic against women. You also know I said before: I have no problem with you citing experiential knowledge, or even having a bias, as long as you recognize you call your data "Facts" and women's data "Feelings."

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2010-02-17T14:43:14-06:00

ID

156133

Comment

Queen, it was NEVER my intent to make you feel like people were ganging up on you. As I said, I'm passionate about social justice, but feminist issues are really where my journey began. We all come at injustice from different angles, and each realization shines a brighter light: learning about abortion rights opened my eyes to how the same laws often have negative effects on happily pregnant women. It also made me recoil in horror at modern efforts to sterilize women of color and women with disabilities. Learning about the civil rights era made me see how little political tactics have changed since the days of the Sovereignty Commission, where so many key figures likened the demand for racial equality with socialism. Feminism was totally my gateway -ism. It's never fun when someone rattles your cage a little, but in my experience, sometimes it's what opens a door. :)

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2010-02-17T14:44:23-06:00

ID

156137

Comment

My position is to stand for human rights; recognizing the inherant dignity and equality of each individual human. Period. Sometimes, it is useful to simplify the issue to the essence of the problem.

Author

revdrstewart

Date

2010-02-17T15:15:07-06:00

ID

156140

Comment

Baquan, that does clarify: thank you. However, I think it's somewhat naive to not consider that even the government has an interest in appearances, especially when special interest (dare I say -ist?) groups all have their eyes trained on government statistics. Policy is enacted to promote fairness, or the appearance of it. Izzy's stats on women and poverty are government data, as were many of Donna and Ronni's assertions. I'm not sure what Sybil Wilkes means by "a certain way," but given the context--and the fact you're bringing it up--makes me think I'd get into a big ol' argument with her, too. You're right: huge leaps and bounds have been made in the last century. However, I thought your chortling about how women believe themselves to be "back in the stoned (sic) age" was insulting. You may feel women have come far enough, but I don't. I don't ever want to have another HR director tell me to make sure I wear a skirt to my interview. I don't want my sister being told by teachers that girls aren't any good at math and science, or discouraged from fields of interest because of her gender (and it still happens.) I think it's abominable that it took until 2009 to pass the Fair Pay Act. I don't think it's a shiny happy world when women's autonomy over their own bodies is continually threatened, and they're often blamed and stigmatized when they're victims of assault and rape. I'm not specifically blaming you, or men in general, but gender roles and sexist thoughts are still being taught by action and deed. It's done in subtle and overt ways, and it's insidious. It also hurts all of us. My sister is 11 and lives in a postage stamp of a town with very little diversity. She is barraged in school with very narrow ideas regarding gender, race, sexuality and anything that might defer from the norm. I consider it my life's work (weighty, but a privilege) to help disabuse her of any notion that she ought to settle for anything other than absolute equality for herself, and for others. Byron Wilkes is saying he trusts women, and believes their potential outweighs what society's willing to give them. You can be fed up with women complaining they're not treated fairly, but it doesn't change our reality. I'm sure a lot of folks think we're a post-racial society now, but that doesn't hold water for me, either.

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2010-02-17T16:17:25-06:00

ID

156146

Comment

Diedra, I'm use to not having the same attitude as most on this site. I really don't give a darn about the gang up until it seems to go personal which this one did by one person, one post...but, that was yesterday, today is a new day. Again, my posts were to explain that I am a humanist and don't consider myself to be a feminist - which clearly didn't sit well with others. Izzy, was willing to try to understand the differences in her opinions and mine. I was willing to try and do the same. Then it took an aggressive change that is very off setting. Anyway, seems like although I don't agree with some of the things BQ has said, and I don't agree with some of the things said by others here, I still don't have a clue why people - other than you Diedra- insist on labeling themselves as feminists and being so gosh darn proud to do so. Diedra and Izzy I totally appreciate your honesty and I genuinely thank you for being open to an opinion other than your own.

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-18T08:47:27-06:00

ID

156149

Comment

Queen, read above: Nobody went personal on you. Some folks disagreed with some of your statements, and I asked everyone here not to assert that others didn't believe something that they had clearly already addressed. I do that as moderator, no matter who it offends. As far as your calling yourself a feminist or not, I don't care, and I doubt others do, and I'm not dwelling on that or anything else about you personally. This is a wider discussion that has little do with any one person, so please don't take comments personally. The more interesting issue that I think others here are trying to tease out is that many people who act and talk like feminists turn around and criticize feminism, often out of a lack of understanding of what it is and often due to no fault of their own--which is exactly the kind of division that was sown against feminism by people who did not want women to have equal rights back in earlier days of the movement (as well as between white women and women of color). Those kinds of misconceptions about what "feminism" actually means are also what Byron was addressing in the column. That kind of division reminds me of that cultivated in our state between blacks and poor whites over the years to hate each other instead of work together. It doesn't help any of us. And, yes, I am gosh darn proud to be a feminist. I like to be *for* positive things (like strong women and social justice) and wear it on my sleeve. I'm sorry if that offends you, but it is my personal choice. Feel free to make a different one; that is your business as my choice is mine.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-18T10:54:21-06:00

ID

156150

Comment

And, Deirdra, you should write a column for the JFP based on your comments here. Excellent.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-18T10:59:42-06:00

ID

156155

Comment

Baquan, My incident with the HR director happened in 2001, when I moved from Atlanta to Jackson. It was not at my current agency of employment. This was for a web job, which still often involves crawling around under desks to get at computers when tech support isn't around. My professional wardrobe rarely includes skirts: I love party dresses, but I am more productive when I am comfortable. The HR director was female. I am absolutely certain you'll jump to say that you were right all along, that women are really women's problem, not men... but sexism is sexism, and it's taught, socialized and enforced. A lawyer acquaintance was once SENT HOME FROM COURT in Mississippi by a male judge in the late 2000s because she wasn't wearing a skirt.

Author

Deirdra Harris Glover

Date

2010-02-18T11:34:39-06:00

ID

156156

Comment

Donna look....I appreciate you taking time out of your day to respond directly to my post but I don't see the point at all. I don't ask you to care EVER...didn't on this post, NEVER have and I NEVER WILL. I didn't ask anyone here to care whether I am a feminist or not. However I am not the only one who made a statement on whether they are or not....why didn't you post behind Diedra and say..."I don't care that you are a feminist and I doubt that anyone else does".... And I don't care one way or the other whether you are a feminist or not...who give a sh!t. Good for you!

Author

Queen601

Date

2010-02-18T11:43:44-06:00

ID

156157

Comment

I am one of a kind, as are you, Queen. That's what I love about you. You should read these comments again; my last post was responding to your remarks about people going personal on you. But at this point, it all seems like rather pointless back-and-forth. Please let's just allow the actual conversation to continue and leave out the personal asides. Then there will be no need to respond back and forth at all, and the risk of potential misunderstanding will subside. If you want to say something directly to me, call me. Otherwise, let's keep this thread on point.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-18T11:47:50-06:00

ID

156158

Comment

Baquan, I am also for strong men. One way I define a strong man or woman is someone who is not threatened in any way by someone else's pursuit of strength and use of their voice. It's one reason I love Todd Stauffer so much. He's just as much a feminist as I am. Sometimes, perhaps more so. He has helped me find and use my voice in so many ways. I also personally define strength as the willingness to look around you in the world and realize that caring about other people's problems and challenges do not weaken you in any way. It makes you stronger. I do not define myself solely as a feminist. I care deeply about justice for non-whites, GLBT folks, children and teens, the elderly and those who worship differently, and so on. I am proud to be *for* social justice in a very wide way. Just because I'm a woman does not mean that has to be my defining value. But I am very proud of my personal strength, my ability to love myself and to do what I can for my community. As a result, I'm not easily stymied, and I sure don't worry over personal attacks by people who want me to be lesser or quieter than I am. I find it sad, Baquan, that you in some way seem threatened by women (and perhaps men?) who consider themselves feminist. You really don't need to be. Feminism is about lifting people up, not holding anyone down. (Occasionally, a bad-apple "feminist" can make it look like that as in any crowd, but she doesn't speak for most of us.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-18T11:55:34-06:00

ID

156161

Comment

But, to me, someone saying that I am pro this or I am pro that, simply means that you lose sight on others and other things. There is nothing logical about that statement, Baquan. And it makes me feel rather sorry for you. And I never heard you complain about all the "pro" things I am that you agree with -- like equality, a voice and an equal playing field for African Americans. Now some lame brain fella would possibly think, "oh he helps you find a voice, what a wuss" Now, I feel more sorry for you. I think Byron means well, hell the mannish/doggish side of me thinks he simply did the article, which he did an excellent job on, for building up chick points!? Now I don't. That is incredibly ignorant and insulting, Baquan. And insulting to men, which most anti-feminist rants actually are. Only very small-minded people would think that the only reason a man would say something in support of women's equality is to "pick up chicks." Matter of fact, I do feel sorry for you. And I don't have anything else to say to you.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-18T12:40:09-06:00

ID

156166

Comment

Baquan, I also don't spend my time with people who spew racist statements, either. Even if they're being "honest."

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-18T13:29:55-06:00

ID

156168

Comment

Ok so I have stayed out of all this except for my first post but I will say this I do not think this article was written to earn points with chicks. Having stated that I am black and I am a feminist it is not the only cause I am for I am pro people but the reality is the world is NOT equal for women. One area of employment that women have managed to make many gains in has been government jobs but so have other minority groups (and I am saying this being well aware that white women have benefited disproportionally from affirmative action)as well as in sectors that are unionized. I choose to say I am a feminist because as a low income women of color I all too well understand the multiple discrimination that I endure due to income, gender, and race. Such as that we are not smart enough to govern our bodies, choose our own goals, or parent our children. To simply say take personal responsibility is the same as telling all black people we should be all good because Obama made it, um NO! I am also a survivor of domestic violence and it is very real to me how it feels to be treated by officers when you call for help and no one does because you must have done something and after all that is your husband. I empathize with all of the women that the system doesn't get justice for because their killers are pardoned or let free because she deserved it (you know the nagging or slutty wife/girlfriend excuse). I am not a man hater I love men including my son, who I want to be surrounded by women who have chosen their own ways in life whether that means they stay at home and have babies or work up the corporate ladder. It may sound that it is only my personal experience that drives my decision but it is also the same facts the Deirdra wrote about. Black History Fact- I would like to note Ida B. Wells marched for women's suffrage in 1913 at the same time she was running her at lynching campaign:-) Our struggles are not opposing struggles

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T14:14:18-06:00

ID

156170

Comment

hey bq white people who have black people in their family use to tell me the same thing "what I said can't be racist my uncle, grandchild, son in law, blah blah, is black) and just because you don't "think" you make sexist statements to them doesn't mean you don't, have you asked them, I am not saying you do I am just challenging your argument. I have a FB friend who dressed up as New York and her husband was Flava Flav for Halloween, did I mention they're white, oh yeah full black face they didn't think that was racist it didn't make it not racist it just made them unaware.

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T14:20:15-06:00

ID

156172

Comment

Black History Fact- I would like to note Ida B. Wells marched for women's suffrage in 1913 at the same time she was running her at lynching campaign:-) Our struggles are not opposing struggles Amen, sister. Go Ida B.! She's an activist-journalist idol of mine. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-18T14:47:20-06:00

ID

156174

Comment

thx ladd she is one of mine too! dang I must edit better tsk, tsk clearly I meant anti-lynching (typing while talking to your kids never works well)

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T14:56:04-06:00

ID

156176

Comment

To your point BQ I don't care if the woman wants the man to go to jail or not was a crime committed, do you see evidence? In my case it didn't have to do with me not wanting him to go to jail, he talked to the officers made me sound like a whore they nodded their heads barely spoke to me even though I had hair missing out of the sides of my head, and didn't even write a report. Your not the only person who knows officers I have a child by a former detective and I date a cop now, but the bottom line is do your job! each case is individual, that would be the same as me excusing racial profiling, which I would never do because some drug dealers are black. That's crazy! There is much that goes into domestic violence and women have their own reasons for when, if and how they leave. (especially since most women who are killed are killed while leaving or after they leave, Latasha Norman ring a bell). A sign of change does not make equality. So that's a good question when will we have true equality because we don't have it now if you think we do then I'm sorry your not paying attention. Forgot the corporate stuff ya'll were talking about women are still getting fired for being pregnant (and I know it happens in the corperate world too) if you think they're not try being poor and working in a low wage job. I had a manager tell me to my face he couldn't give me hours as a dishwasher because I was a woman even though I worked harder then most of the men I worked with. I have been asked in an interview if I planned on having more kids. lastly, where do I get the idea people think poor women can't govern their own bodies, every time people propose sterilizing poor women who have "too many" kids, when the government made sure poor women had very limited access to abortion because medicaid can't pay for it. Or wait this year in MS there's a HB to make it so they drug test everyone before they get TANF, Food Stamps or Medicaid the majority of those tested would be women(of course). and let me just add the bodies of their children while I am for vaccines in many states if you are a parent on assistance who didn't want your child vaccinated you would be sanctioned and your benefits cut. These are the things I'm talking about. I know there are those who will say if you receive help the government should be able to ask you to do certain things but it is only when its programs for mostly women and children that you see these kinds of rules

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T15:35:45-06:00

ID

156178

Comment

to multiculturegirl - I think you have important things to say on this topic, and i am glad you chimed in to speak your mind to BQ - to me you seem to see yourself as a kind of "go team" cheerleader for women, showing examples of women you know who overcame difficulties. I say, hey, that's GREAT. Let's celebrate that. Let's encourage people to go for what they dream, even if the odds are stacked against them. My question to you, BQ, is this: don't you see benefit in both encouraging individuals to work past limitations AND going about the ahrd work of breaking down those systematic limitations at the same time? Take the example of a woman in AFrica who had her clitoris ritually scraped off and her vagina sewed up to make her more sexually desireable. Ok, you may want to say to her, hey, it's ok, the world is changing and you may move beyond this pain. BUT, why can't someone also say to her, hey, it's not right, this happens all over your region, maybe we ought to talk about why it isn't right, as well as what we can do about it if we work together. How much do you refuse to see? I wonder...

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-18T16:22:25-06:00

ID

156179

Comment

but I will say that this thread gave me a lot of food for thought, and I expect I'll continue to mull it over for awhile...I am working on learning how to really, really listen to people rather than alwasy thinking that I have to have something to say.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-18T16:24:27-06:00

ID

156180

Comment

because organized work around an issue DOES actually help, this has been shown throughout many social movements, including the Civil Rights bus boycots, and other areas, like having better rape kits available in hospitals. Things that result from organized groups of people saying, hey, there's a real problem, let's try and fix this not just for myself, but for others who are trouble with it. If they just say, hey, I'm past that, I am beyond that, the might have missed out on a chance for helping the next person who maybe wasn't so strong.

Author

Izzy

Date

2010-02-18T16:26:33-06:00

ID

156185

Comment

I'm sorry baquan I understand your point but I don't agreed having an opportunity doesn't make it an equal one all kids in the US get public ed its not equal we all know it. You and I have never met that I know of but I know from your other posts on other threads you are clearly a caring well rounded guy, we have agreed on many things, but to say women do not need to be feminists because we have access to opportunities is like saying there is no need for a civil rights movement anymore because we as African Americans now have access to many things, I do not agreed, hundreds of years of oppression of ANY kind can not be defeated in a couple decades. Women and girls are still looked at as less then and human trafficking is not just an overseas issue its an American issue we live in a country that believes girls can't consent to sex at 12 and 14 but can be prosecuted as prostitutes as their pimps go free. These are reasons I believe we still need a women's movement just like I have reasons why I believe we still need a modern civil rights movement. It would be awesome if we could all just say "I am pro people" and that was enough but that's not how things get done, actions are taken around issues and we as a people have not evolved enough to just make let's treat everyone fair and equal the issue. If we follow your thinking then there are no race issues right? They are all just human issues, right?

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T19:35:51-06:00

ID

156187

Comment

Banquan, Byron wrote this piece out of conversation that he and I had about women saying "I'm not a feminist," a phrase that I heard several times within a short period of time. We agreed that we found the position difficult to understand. I asked him to write it because he expressed his viewpoints with a lot of passion. Personally, I think it was brave for him to write on what's obviously a hot-button topic. I think I understand your perspective; correct me if I'm wrong. You think women have come a long way and have achieved a great deal of success. Women can get any kind of education or job they want. You've expressed several times here that you don't see any evidence of sexism–in fact just the opposite–and that you don't understand what the big deal is. Have I got it right? But having equal access to opportunity is only part of the picture. One issue that I have with your viewpoint is that it's strictly from the outside looking in. It's difficult to put yourself into another shoes and see from another's point of view, but that doesn't mean one can't develop a bit of compassion, nonetheless. For example, I do not know what it's like being a black man or woman in Mississippi. It would be absurd for me to say I do. Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that I can't empathize with your struggles, feel anger toward racists or work toward ending racism. It would be equally absurd to say that African Americans have equal opportunities and can get any kind of job and open any kind of business they want, ergo, racism no longer exists. See? It's incomplete. Sure, legally, it's true, but the straight-line correlation doesn't exist. The other problem I have with your arguments is that they seem incredibly binary. You seem to be saying that a person can't hold more than one thought or concept in their minds at the same time. Surely that's not what you mean. Can't I be pro-women without being anti-men? It's not an either/or proposition. I can be *for* a lot of things without being extremist, thinking there are only two sides to every situation. There are always many facets to every situation. Reducing everything to yes/no, black/white, left/right does everyone a disservice. Misogyny–like racism and ageism and a whole lot of other unattractive traits–is alive and well in Mississippi, in the U.S., and in the world. I've experienced it and so have a boatload of my friends and acquaintances. For you to imply that it doesn't exist only says to me that you haven't been the target of it. Also, to say that there are some mythical "unwritten rules" about how to treat women is just more of the same ... it's reducing the facts of inequality to something fantastical that only exists in the minds of women. If your only response to feminism is to stay away from women (as you implied) that's a shame. Your arguments sound amazingly similar to those from Mississippi's racist past: "I don't know what 'those people' are complaining about ... they're not slaves anymore." You talk about your mother being a victim of abuse, yet in the next sentence, you and your family point the finger back at her for not leaving. Police and judges in Mississippi have held the same attitude about domestic abuse for eons, giving abusers slaps on the wrists and sending women and children back into dangerous situations on a regular basis. It's only now changing, slowly, through concerted education efforts by women's advocates. Still, Gov. Barbour can release women killers with impunity just because they do good work at the mansion. And sure, it's great to say that it's a human issue, but when was the last time you heard of men's genitals being mutilated on a regular basis, or men being sold into sexual slavery, or men not being allowed to attend school or inherit property. The feminist movement is specific to women's issues. To ignore that those issues are different from men's issues is to minimize them and belittle women. Again.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-18T19:52:05-06:00

ID

156188

Comment

Thank you Ronni its as if you were in my head

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T20:04:05-06:00

ID

156190

Comment

So what do you have a civil rights movement or a feminists movement? Does the feminists movement take priority of the civil rights movement, or does the feminists movement fall under the umbrella of the civil rights movement? This is what I mean by binary, Banquan. The answer to all of those questions is "it depends." We cannot simply say that one movement always outweighs another in all situations. Sometimes the issue is racial injustice, sometimes it's gender injustice. Sometimes it's juvenile injustice. Fill in the blank ... it just isn't as simple as you'd like it to be.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-18T20:14:02-06:00

ID

156193

Comment

I stated earlier I think they are all interconnected, out of the gains of the civil rights movement came many of the skills used to make gains in other movements disability rights, ect., its why I made the point about Ida B. Wells. The early women's rights activists such as Elisabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, and Sojourner Truth were abolitionists struggles of oppressed peoples are always linked it is division that is our enemy. Your still making it sound like we should be grateful its not 1950 (I am) and shut up but for me that's not good enough. So you really believe that we have equal justice, fair pay, and that Lanier and Jackson Prep give equal education? Then your right we will agree to disagree because that makes no sense to me. But I like others am always willing to listen to and respect the opinions of others.

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T20:29:07-06:00

ID

156195

Comment

WOW!!! really so now your putting us in with the tea party movement I'm officially done! There are people fighting for those little boys too by the way and don't you think that any anti trafficking laws that feminists would get passed wouldn't help male sex slaves as well just like anti stalking laws have impacted males who are stalked even though they were mostly fought for by women's rights activists. Struggles are often connected. When I speak about domestic violence the first thing I always say is this is not just a women's issue it effects everyone but that's not how its seen, sorry. We can't get into a whose misery is worse contest I can only work the issues I work on and there ARE issues specific to women just like there are issues specific to children, the poor, and minorities. For me to fight for my issue doesn't mean I don't respect or acknowledge other issues, some of those I am fighting for to, but I can only work on what I can work on and ask that you respect it

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T20:45:24-06:00

ID

156196

Comment

almost forgot other posters in other threads have called MC before, lol

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T20:51:06-06:00

ID

156197

Comment

I guess the bottom line for me, Baquan (Sorry for misspelling your name ... I need better glasses!), is that it's not a competition. Lots of people work really hard to change unjust situations. The only way to change, though, is first to acknowledge that there's a problem. Refuse to see the problem and no change is possible. It sounds like your grandparents were exceptional in their attitudes, not allowing any excuse to stand in their way. It's not a panacea, though, as your own mother would attest. Life isn't very good at handing the sh!tty end of the stick only to those who deserve it. No doubt women have come a long way in this country. There still a ways to go. I firmly believe the universe governs itself and it always works out for righteousness. Good luck with that. People have been praying for "peace on earth" for about as long as prayers have been around. Not a lot of evidence that it's working real well ... Thanks for the dialogue. I'm out.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-18T20:53:41-06:00

ID

156199

Comment

time to make the tofu goodnight folks!

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-18T21:09:42-06:00

ID

156219

Comment

Baquan- how could good etiquette be bad? Somebody needs to teach kids, because most parents in the last 20yrs haven't taught their kids manners.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-21T14:07:13-06:00

ID

156220

Comment

the way I read the article is he introduced these concepts and its up to the students to embrace them I guess I don't have an issue with this since he's not grading on it and its not mandatory. I personally don't mind if a man opens a door for me it is a social grace much like saying bless you (which I don't do I say Gesundheit meaning health unto you, but I have a heavy German ancestry) anyways when I am offended is when men think I can't do things for myself or take the door from me if I already have it. My ex and I get crazy looks all the time because I am often under the hood of the van while he's in the vehicle but he doesn't know how to put in fluids or use cables and I do soooooo. My son holds the door for his sisters but his sisters also move furniture, pump gas, and carry groceries so I guess for me its balance I think it is good to know etiquette because there are still settings that you need to know these things, period. I just don't believe in being married to it.

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-21T15:23:12-06:00

ID

156229

Comment

Good manners never go out of style, IMHO. When I first moved here, I was taken aback by the way men my age treated me with feigned deference. If I was on an elevator with six guys and I was in the back, they would all step to the side to let me off first (I suppose they all let me on first, too, which made the whole thing comical). Men would rush to open a door, even if they were holding an armful of stuff (and I wasn't). There are some practical and some impractical etiquette rules, but mostly, it's about good manners. If you're on a crowded elevator in front of a woman it makes no sense to "part the seas" for her. Get off, maybe putting your hand on the door so it doesn't close on those following you, male or female. It's simply impolite to let a door slam in someone's face. If you get to a door first, man or woman, hold it open for the person behind you, man or woman, especially if they have items in their hands that would make the door unwieldy. That's just common courtesy, and I do it all the time for both sexes and all ages. The whole issue of helping ladies with their chairs came from a time when ladies had such voluminous skirts that they really needed help with their chairs while they held their skirts close; trying to move to the table by themselves almost guaranteed a chair leg ripping through the skirt fabric. These days, it's a nice thing to do if you're so inclined, especially if your date/spouse is wearing a formal, full-length gown. Likewise, I have helped elderly and disabled persons of either sex with their chairs, but only after asking if I could help (some folks want to struggle). As to who walks in the room first in diplomatic situations, can't help you there. My guess is that it changes from culture to culture like many things. One should always stand when an ambassador enters a room, however, regardless of whether the ambassador is male or female or whether *you* are male or female. Some folks shake hands upon meeting, some hug, some air kiss, some kiss ladies' hands, some bow with hands in prayer position. Here's a pretty good Wiki article on etiquette in North America and another from the Department of State for those in foreign service.

Author

Ronni_Mott

Date

2010-02-22T20:31:29-06:00

ID

156231

Comment

I agree Ronni that's kind of what I was trying to say in brief I hold doors for men often and it irritates me when men rush to the door almost knocking me over to open it for me but I don't say anything. I think holding doors and helping with packages is just good manners regardless of gender. Etiquette changes with your surroundings That's why I don't care if the teacher exposes them to these things as long as he's not forcing them to do it. Baquan to your first point maybe its partially due to my grandpa who let me work as an equal in his wood shop that made me think I can be handy but I don't have time to wait for a man to meet me at auto zone ever, that's just me. Although I do occasionally love playing dumb to see how fast men offer to help me. (sorry its funny to me) One of my daughters is our resident handy-women and recently unclogged the kitchen drain by taking it apart she's 15 and has autism. that's how we do it around here. Second I truly meant what I said on WAPT when Latasha Norman was killed I was physically sick for days I didn't know her except in passing but I was an SGA member that year and had spent the night before they found her body at the prayer vigil on campus standing with the family. Stanley Cole's actions have impacted so many and I hope that our dear old college home learns a valuable lesson and finally treats this as a serious issues because before her death they were not. I know especially for those of who were attending at the time it was traumatic for us and we will never forget her.

Author

multiculturegirl

Date

2010-02-23T00:46:23-06:00