Jackson Free Press

Ole Miss will resume the search for an official mascot on Tuesday when students vote on whether to launch a student-led process for finding a PC mascot. Colonel Reb, aka The Slave Owner, is not eligible.

Ole Miss banished Colonel Reb, who had been roaming the sideline since 1979, in 2003. This attempt to move into the 21st century angered reactionaries everywhere.

An earlier vote to select a new mascot was a disaster. Students, season ticket-holders and other VIPS were asked to select between "Bruiser Reb" (he looks like a goateed Hulk Hogan) and "Rowdy Rebel" (who looks like an English soccer hooligan) by an online vote. There were 40,000 people eligible to vote; only 2,400 bothered. The UM athletic director then dropped the idea.

Even the JFP hasn't been immune to the Rebel mascot curse. Colonel Reb won Best Mascot in the 2007 JFP Best of Jackson Contest. I think that category has been dropped.

Previous Comments

ID

156228

Comment

Can anything or any name beat ole miss rebels or colonel reb? How about a picture or liking of trent lott, jim eastland, lqc lamar, the university greys, or something like that? How about a Phoenix fighting off a rising so it can remain ashes? Good luck students. My nephew will be a starter next year on the team to my great displeasure. This is the year and time for ole miss student body to show they want to move on. We will see who has the power - the progressive branch of the school or the ole heads. If I were a betting man I'd put my money on the ole heads. I'm pulling for them to do something so detestable that my nephew and the likes can't even look beyond.

Author

Walt

Date

2010-02-22T18:38:26-06:00

ID

156230

Comment

If they can't use Colonel Reb, I'd rather them not have a mascot.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-22T22:37:47-06:00

ID

156233

Comment

Kind of a remarkable statement, Bubba.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-23T09:41:11-06:00

ID

156235

Comment

I'm really pulling for Admiral Ackbar, though I wonder whether George Lucas would give up the intellectual property rights. http://www.notatrap.org/

Author

Ward Schaefer

Date

2010-02-23T10:39:05-06:00

ID

156236

Comment

Humph, maybe they should ask Warner Bros. for permission to use Foghorn Leghorn as their mascot...oh wait, I guess Univ. of SC would have a problem with another rooster in the SEC.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2010-02-23T11:09:06-06:00

ID

156240

Comment

Wow. Easy, fellas, easy. Somebody rocking the vote on the UMC campus today dressed as a pink Care Bear. Meanwhile, consultants have suggested replacing Colonel Reb with a riverboat gambler or a colonial soldier (think New England Patriots mascot). I'd call those dumb and dumber. What the heck does either have to do with Ole Miss?

Author

Doctor S

Date

2010-02-23T15:03:12-06:00

ID

156241

Comment

Good golly. Bubba, Brian's response to you was tasteLESS, but your response is one of the worst things I've ever seen posted on this site. I'm closing them both. Meantime, Bubba, you seem to have no awareness that it is also very offensive to African Americans (and many whites) who attend Ole Miss to have a civil war colonel/plantation owner as the mascot of a public university. Very sad.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-23T15:08:12-06:00

ID

156242

Comment

Donna- I really don't care if Colonel Reb is offensive to Afican Americans or any whites. If they are offended by it why the hell do they go there? There are 2618 universities in the U.S. pick one that doesn't offended them.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-23T15:15:40-06:00

ID

156243

Comment

It's a PUBLIC university, Bubba. Get over yourself, for God's sake. Just because you don't give a damn about tax dollars being used to hurt people doesn't mean others don't.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-23T15:17:43-06:00

ID

156244

Comment

I closed the two more nefarious comments above; let's keep it about Colonel Reb (or other mascot choices) and try to stay civil instead of devolving in to the C-L's forums. Thanks!

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-23T15:25:14-06:00

ID

156245

Comment

Donna- you do know that Colonel Reb was modeled after a black Ole Miss fan, not civil war colonel/plantation owner?

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-23T15:30:41-06:00

ID

156246

Comment

I know the history, Bubba. Do you think pushing the meme that Col. Reb is a white-face version of black "Blind Jim" changes this conversation somehow? Really?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-23T15:35:03-06:00

ID

156247

Comment

Donna-yes, when it's been stated he was modeled after a slave owner/civil war colonel/plantation owner. Yes I do.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-23T17:05:15-06:00

ID

156248

Comment

Bubba: "Colonel Reb" is a cartoonish, white, "Colonel Sanders" lookin' dude wearing a confederate soldier outfit. That incarnation dates from 1979 -- and the references are, shall we say, less than subtle. To somehow suggest that "Colonel Reb" the mascot derives exclusively from Blind Jim strikes me as a bit disingenuous. I'm not saying Col. Reb was overtly racist when envisioned in 1979; I'm just saying that the modern Col Reb's "origin theory" is suspect. First, your interpretation appears to be based on a line in a history of Ole Miss by David Sansing where he says "Blind Jim may have been the model for Colonel Rebel who first appeared on the cover of the yearbook in 1937," something Rick Cleveland confirmed with him in 2003, wherein Sansing called it "ironic." Second, have you ever read the sentence after that line? click here The relationship between Ole Miss students and Blind Jim Ivy was genteel racism in its purest for and it broke none of the codices of white supremacy, but their fondness for him was genuine. It then goes on to document the students raising money for blacks to attend other institutions in honor of Jim after his death, noting that the scholarship money in his honor could not actually be used at the school he loved. It begs at least one question -- if the modern day Colonel Reb "honors" Blind Jim, then why isn't Colonel Reb *black*?

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-23T17:41:37-06:00

ID

156249

Comment

Way to go, Bubba. Thanks for telling us what you really think. We agree on one thing, I detest that anyone associted with me or share a likeness to me would do anything to bring you or your ilk any joy or happiness. This is why I hate it that my kinfolks are up there. I have read ole miss' history and don't believe a word of that crap about the mascot bearing a likeness or being modeled after Blind Jim, who was a black man denied humanity by the times and situation he was born into, and furthermore had to endure indignities on a daily basis by working at that pathetic cesspool where he had to treat white kids are superior to him on a daily basis. I'm sure lots of people like animals and black people who view themselves as chattel or mere animal in this world to serve White people. That mascot looks like the Percys of Greenville. I know you know the ones I'm referencing because I have heard you singing their praises before. They were slaveowners and plantation owners who supposedly treated their slaves and tenants alright, unless you ask the slaves or tenants. And that is if you believe the slaves and black tenants or workers were chattel and inferior to Whites and were supposed to be treated unfairly and less than human beings. Jackson State and Dr. King aren't the person, entity or thing that has the racism disease. Brian's comment, although I didn't get to see all of it, didn't merit that comment or response you gave. Nassum, Bubba, it didn't. Cool down boss, we gon get that cotton fer you. Brian is a poor boy from Kansas where lots of Blacks fled to after the Civil War trying to flee the racist, vile and cruel White southerner. We weren't welcomed with open arms there either, but they treated us better than ole miss did. They still do!

Author

Walt

Date

2010-02-23T17:45:53-06:00

ID

156250

Comment

Todd- Colonel Reb is not in a Confederate uniform, he is dressed in a tux. Confederate uniforms had no vest,no tails,two rows of buttons,were grey, not red and blue and the hat was a kepi, not a Stetson style hat execpt for few calvary officers.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-23T19:26:56-06:00

ID

156251

Comment

Bubba, ah, you mean like this? LOL! http://www.ferenzi.com/maddie/trip/chance/lee-bw.JPG I noticed you didn't answer the question about why Colonel Reb isn't black if his image is meant to honor an African-American fan from the first half of the 20th century...

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-24T08:59:20-06:00

ID

156252

Comment

First of all let me state that I'm a USM guy, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. However, I find the opposition to Col. Reb a bit amusing. To begin with, all the archive footage I've seen lately had the mascot wearing shorts and a # 30 UM jersey. But that's not what this about. Would you people have us do away with everything that has any Civil War connotation? You know, there's a large National Park in Vicksburg w/ countless monuments; should we do away with that? I can clearly see where the flag was offensive, but a cartoonish sideline mascot wearing UM gear raises your hackles that much? Really?

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-24T09:06:14-06:00

ID

156254

Comment

And I would guess that this is the image you mean when you say that Colonel Reb was envisioned as an homage to an African-American fan of the football team. http://tinyurl.com/y9umdll Note the uniform, incidentally. ;-)

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-24T09:17:02-06:00

ID

156255

Comment

And to Bill's point; clearly it's not just the *current* image of Colonel Reb that's 100% at issue (please note that UofM administration itself took him off the field in 2003 and what we're discussing is the selection of a new mascot, so it's kind of a done deal) -- it's the baggage that Colonel Reb represents to the university and many of its students or prospective students. There's clearly some question as to whether the spittin' image of Robert E Lee or Colonel Sanders (or whatever) as a genteel plantation owner is the correct image for the current Ole Miss -- even if his image has been cleaned up considerably from past years. (It begs the question as to whether or not "Ole Miss" is the correct moniker for the school in the 21st century, but they might end up getting a pass on that one!) And no, you don't have to do away with everything that has to do with the Confederacy; but putting it in a museum or National Park makes a ton of sense; the symbols of the Confederacy, particularly those that were later co-opted by the apartheid movement of the 20th century should be remembered and contextualized.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-24T09:52:18-06:00

ID

156256

Comment

Bill Jackson, I think there's also a qualitative difference between a monument and a school mascot, in that the mascot is supposed to embody or symbolize the entire school, even its students. A Confederate monument in Vicksburg doesn't stand as a symbol of current residents of Vicksburg. But a school mascot can do that for a school. That's why a cartoon of, say, Colonel Reb wrestling a bulldog could symbolize Ole Miss and MSU--the teams, the schools, the students--battling in the Egg Bowl. It's far less offensive to leave symbols of slavery/segregation/the past if they don't purport to stand for a large group of people. There's still a bullet hole in the facade of the Lyceum from 1962 that could represent segregation, but it doesn't stand for Ole Miss students.

Author

Ward Schaefer

Date

2010-02-24T09:58:45-06:00

ID

156257

Comment

This all reminds me of being back at Neshoba Central in the '70s. So many of the students were ready to move ahead, have friends of other races and stop racist practices -- but the old coots on the school board were determined to keep Jim Crow in place however they could. In the Ole Miss racist symbols debates, it's usually the old-timers who want things to stay the same. Thankfully, the students voted yesterday to move forward. Obviously, to anyone who isn't desperately holding onto the past (who are always the most passionate ones in these debates, or we wouldn't even be having this conversation), racist symbols should stay in the past. They are history and should be museum exhibits about how far we've come. They should not be used as symbols, certainly not at institutions that exist off taxpayer money, and it really doesn't matter how many people want nothing to change.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-24T10:04:50-06:00

ID

156258

Comment

Does anyone know if Forest Hill HS still has "the Rebels" as their mascot? Or if UNLV is still "The Running Rebels"?

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-24T10:10:01-06:00

ID

156260

Comment

Todd- this is the image Colonel Reb was styled after. [IMG]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j57/btarver_photos/blind-jim.jpg[/IMG]

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T11:25:28-06:00

ID

156261

Comment

Playing a little devil's advocate here, but... Should LSU change their mascot from the Fighting Tigers since their nickname, was derived from a band Confederate soldiers in Louisiana?

Author

RobbieR

Date

2010-02-24T11:25:42-06:00

ID

156263

Comment

Bill- Forest Hill's mascot is the Patriots. UNLV's mascot is still The Runnin Rebels, but they are having the same BS problems that it might offend somebody Ole Miss is.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T11:33:55-06:00

ID

156264

Comment

"and it really doesn't matter how many people want nothing to change." So if a majority of UM students, alumni, faculty, etc. voted to keep Col. Reb, their opinions should be summarily dismissed in the name of political correctness? Alumni donations at Ole Miss (which are considerable) would dry up so fast it'd make your head spin.

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-24T11:40:36-06:00

ID

156265

Comment

Forest Hill High School is the home of "The Patriots" now.

Author

WMartin

Date

2010-02-24T11:50:14-06:00

ID

156266

Comment

Beyond the media locusts descending upon Oxford to champion this "remarkable" story.... President Artair Rogers has very little to show for his presidency. It is common for outgoing Presidents and ASB seniors to develop or author far-reaching bills before their terms end in order to list on their resume, "Authored XXX bill," without ever mentioning if the bill was actually passed. In an attempt to establish some sort of legacy, at the midnight hour, his cabinet resurrected the mascot issue and through the ASB Senate, applied for a special election. Instead of automatically giving the students an option of choosing their next mascost, Rogers gave the students the "option of giving the students the option." Basically, "we will allow students to vote on whether or not they want to vote." And why not give the students the automatic right to vote for their future mascot? Because this would have been timely. This would require university officials, consulting firms, and alumni to meet and choose potential "mascot" candidates. This likely would have taken several months; far beyond Artair Roger's term. His "legacy" would not have been a part of the equation, much less the solution. So what was on the ballot? A) Student's choose a mascot B) Student's don't choose a mascot, somebody else does. So, here we have it. A pointless, "symbolic" vote which achieved nothing. A very small percentage of students voted. (I obviously did not vote in such a frivolous election.) Either way, Ole Miss will have a new mascot. Regardless if you voted A or B or Yes or No, Ole Miss was getting a new mascot. So it bothers me when I read these newspapers saying, "The Ole Miss Students Have Moved On." Because the students didn't "make a choice." The choice was already made.

Author

jbreland

Date

2010-02-24T12:35:48-06:00

ID

156267

Comment

Well, at least this symbolic effort is bringing positive press to Ole Miss, or should I say, the University of Mississippi. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-24T12:44:15-06:00

ID

156268

Comment

No you should say OLE MISS, HOTTY TOTTY, and GO TO HELL MISS STATE!

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T12:51:24-06:00

ID

156269

Comment

Todd- this is the image Colonel Reb was styled after. Bubba. Thank you. I think you've just made your argument more ridiculous than I ever could have done on my own. ;-)

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-24T13:24:41-06:00

ID

156270

Comment

This stuff about UNLV's mascot and the origin of LSU's nickname is an attempt to muddy the waters. There has never been any serious discussion of changing the nickname of Ole Miss' athletic teams. Ditto for UNLV.

Author

Doctor S

Date

2010-02-24T13:36:06-06:00

ID

156271

Comment

Todd- styled after dosn't mean exactly like.;) my arugument isn't rediculous, what ridiculous is that Colonel Reb was offensive to anyone.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T13:44:43-06:00

ID

156274

Comment

If things that remind african americans of the civil war and slavery are offensive, then why aren't ya'll raising hell about Jackson our state capitol being named after a president who own close to 300 slaves in his life time? Hey ever this paper's name should be offensive.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T14:57:17-06:00

ID

156275

Comment

Alumni donations at Ole Miss (which are considerable) would dry up so fast it'd make your head spin. So the Alumni of Ole Miss are sending their donations to Ole Miss because of its mascot?

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-24T15:27:43-06:00

ID

156276

Comment

Alumni donations went down an estimated $50 million when Boone decided on his own to get rid of Colonel Reb over the objections of alumi and students.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T15:41:00-06:00

ID

156277

Comment

Alumni donations went down an estimated $50 million when Boone decided on his own to get rid of Colonel Reb over the objections of alumi and students. Bubba -- do you have a reference for that? That's not the first time I've seen that figure, but the only place I could find it in Google was a pro-Confederate Battle Flag fan site and it doesn't seem to have a link to a news source.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-24T16:13:05-06:00

ID

156278

Comment

Colonel Reb foundation is where I saw it. http://www.saveolemiss.com/ "Upon his return as athletic director, Boone decided to get rid of the Colonel for good. The Ole Miss family was stunned. An estimated $50 million was lost from donations. Many emotions erupted as a result of this action." http://picayuneitem.com/local/x1765865389/Mascotless-Ole-Miss-to-vote-on-Col-Reb-successor "They're not the only ones closely watching the vote. Alum Bob Dunlap, 80, who's in the tire business, said he has donated about $1 million to Ole Miss athletics over the years, but he'll likely stop if Colonel Reb is removed from the campus entirely. He said the vote is unnecessary."

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T16:28:16-06:00

ID

156279

Comment

Bubba, don't you think it a bit strange that an 80-year-old man won't donate to his university if they change the mascot? What do you suppose that says about this man?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-24T17:23:45-06:00

ID

156281

Comment

in all fairness, DL, how many 80 yr olds do you know that are all keen on changing ANYTHING? Just sayin'. Please keep in mind that we are talking about things relating to football. Considering the recent frenzy over the Super Bowl win for the Saints (still sounds weird doesn't it) who play in the next state over, you can imagine the emotional hot button this is with some people, many of which are not in the least bit racist.

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-24T19:04:57-06:00

ID

156282

Comment

Donna, what I find strange is that you are calling this 80 old man a racist, which is what you are implying, with out even knowing the man. If he doesn't want to give his money to Ole Miss, because he thinks Colonel Reb should be the mascot,that's his choice it's his money after all. Doesn't make him a racist. The majority of fans and students want Colonel Reb back. The students voted in 2003 to bring him back by a 94% margin but Boone ignored what the students wanted, that's why so few voted this time because if it not Colonel Reb they would rather not have a mascot and they knew their votes were pointless because the administration has already said they would pick a mascot anyway whether the students vote yes or no yesterday.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-24T21:06:48-06:00

ID

156283

Comment

Leave Col. Reb alone! You're lucky he even performed for you bast#%$s ! (Sorry, couldn't resist that one)

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-24T21:13:35-06:00

ID

156284

Comment

I haven't had a comment deleted in a long time, so I consider it something of an accomplishment. My remark was tasteless, though it was not entirely in jest. The Civil War should forever be remembered for what it was--a stupid, horrifying slaughter. Anything that romanticizes the Confederacy irritates me, and Bubba's protestations aside, Colonel Reb clearly romanticizes the Confederacy. I know that the mascot has other meanings for most alums. And I understand that Bubba is convinced that Colonel Reb was modeled after Richard Pryor or something. I readily accept that Colonel Reb is a conflicted symbol that many alumni hold dear. What bothers me is that Bubba will not extend the same sympathy to those who are offended by the mascot. He rejects out of hand the argument that a "Colonel" and a "Rebel" has anything to do with white supremacy. Moreover, he insists that because he is not offended, no one else has the right to be. And if they don't like it, they should go to some other school. That's nothing but white privilege, talking the same way it has always talked. It demonstrates that Bubba is the last person we should trust on whether a symbol is offensive.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2010-02-24T23:43:42-06:00

ID

156285

Comment

Brian, I didn't say or think no one else has the right to be offended,they can be offended all they want too. I said I didn't care if they were offended by Colonel Reb whether they are white or black. Your right I think it they were offended by Colonel Reb they should have gone to another school. Seems kinda stupid to think "I'm offended by Colonel Reb but I'm going enroll in Ole Miss, the whine about it" That's like buying house next to landfill then whining about the smell. It's you're on fault for making a dumb decision in the first place. I could care less whether you trust me on whether a symbol is offensive or not, cause I really don't give a damn what you or anybody else thinks about me.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-25T00:17:30-06:00

ID

156286

Comment

Bubba, I know that you don't mean to, but I think some Ole Miss fans are facepalming and wishing you would stop defending Colonel Reb by comparing their school to a smelly landfill and describing enrollment there as a dumb decision. I don't care about their mascot, myself. I kinda like Walt's suggestion of the fighting Phoenix, or Admiral Ackbar would be cool.

Author

WMartin

Date

2010-02-25T08:36:43-06:00

ID

156288

Comment

http://www.saveolemiss.com/ Uh-huh. Same kind of thing I saw; "pro" group with no source for $50 million claim that -- to put it judiciously -- would be impossible to confirm.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-25T09:12:02-06:00

ID

156289

Comment

Reading the last sentence of Bubba's 12:17 am post pretty much summarizes why so many white Southerners continue clinging to this racist neo-Confederate crap and glorifying the treasonous losers who shed blood for their *right* to enslave, terrorize, and torture an entire race of human beings for fun and profit.

Author

Jeff Lucas

Date

2010-02-25T09:14:57-06:00

ID

156290

Comment

Several years ago I took my kids to the City of Jackson Christmas parade. JSU's band and dance team were there and I was deeply offended that the dance team would do such a routine in the presence of so many young kids; the only thing missing was a brass pole. However, I don't think they should be prevented from expressing themselves in any way they choose, I simply won't take my kids to events where they perform. I guess not everyone thinks that people should be able to express themselves as they see fit.

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-25T09:30:18-06:00

ID

156291

Comment

WMartin- Doubt it, they understand.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-25T10:05:22-06:00

ID

156292

Comment

Bill- you got that right about JSU's dance team.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-25T11:34:08-06:00

ID

156293

Comment

Bill, I don't think the example you offered falls under the same category as a university mascot. A better comparison would be if JSU's mascot was a sexually provocative young lady, which I am sure would draw many protests. The argument would not be that women do not have the right to dress or dance provocatively. It would be that as a symbol for the entire institution, the mascot is inappropriate. The same applies to Colonel Reb. No one is restricting the right of people to "express themselves as they see fit." Any citizen is free to dress as Colonel Reb, and I am sure that there will be Colonel Reb bumper stickers and the like for many years to come. The question is whether a public institution should continue to use a mascot that offends many citizens of Mississippi. (Whether the students support Colonel Reb is a secondary question. A public university is not a club.) In a state with a turbulent history of racism, where the flagship public university still enrolls an embarrassingly low percentage of blacks, having a mascot that represents a Confederate plantation owner is obviously a bad idea. It's not equivalent to some indiscreet dancers.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2010-02-25T11:44:25-06:00

ID

156294

Comment

Off topic but is anyone else having problems with the website? I have to refresh my screen about 5 or 6 times to get the comments to show up,most of the articles will not load and on the home page Karen Irby's mug shot is taking up about half my screen. I keep getting this error message "Errors on this webpage are causing it to work incorrectly"

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-25T12:11:41-06:00

ID

156295

Comment

well if you want to stick to mascots, the guy that was the long time tiger mascot couldn't take 5 steps without getting off a few hip thrusts every time I saw him. It's not like those girls DON'T represent the university.

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-25T13:39:49-06:00

ID

156303

Comment

Bubba, if you continue to get those kinds of errors, please e-mail me (vinceATjacksonfreepressDOTcom). Include either the exact text of the error message(s) or maybe a screenshot. We recently upgraded our content management system to the latest version, and we're apparently seeing a few hiccups here and there.

Author

vince

Date

2010-02-25T15:56:26-06:00

ID

156304

Comment

yes, when I get my daily and try to open an article it says error cannot open this site. If I go to the net and click on favorites and get the direct site it works fine.

Author

atlntaexile

Date

2010-02-25T16:36:05-06:00

ID

156305

Comment

I always thought he looked like LQC Lamar.

Author

atlntaexile

Date

2010-02-25T16:38:45-06:00

ID

156306

Comment

the Photo of Robert E Lee is in civilian dress. Taken in Richmond in Summer of 65 on the back porch of his Townhouse. Once he took off the Confederate uniform in April 65 he never put it back on again. Of course until they carved him in it on top of his tomb at Washington Lee. I am sure he would have objected.

Author

atlntaexile

Date

2010-02-25T16:50:58-06:00

ID

156307

Comment

the Photo of Robert E Lee is in civilian dress. Taken in Richmond in Summer of 65 on the back porch of his Townhouse. Once he took off the Confederate uniform in April 65 he never put it back on again. Which was exactly what they did to poor Colonel Reb; moved him from confederate uniform...to Southern gentlemen farmer tuxedo...to basketball uniform. Col Reb in shorts Actually, the more I search, the more I'm thinking there's a little whitewashing going on vis-à-vis this "tuxedo" business. Does anyone know...is this an "unofficial" Colonel Reb? [img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/2048874794_a04aab57fb.jpg[/img] because it may be a "tux", but he's got rank insignia on his lapels and uniform-like gold bands on the sleeves. Just sayin'.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-25T17:12:45-06:00

ID

156309

Comment

BTW, great piece on this at Red Cup Rebellion -- I don't agree with everything he says, but I think he gets to the perfect conclusion: Rebel Fans Please Stop Caring About Mascots. (It's kinda funny, too, in that sports-bloggerly way.) Also, the comments section over there is totally NSFW, but there's some funny stuff in there too, without too much of the tired ol' C-L type tripe.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-25T18:05:09-06:00

ID

156314

Comment

Well this is really "beating the dead horse" issue. Colonel Reb isn't coming back, even though he should and that's what the students and fans want. They will get a new mascot that will never be accepted by the Ole Miss faithful. Colonel Reb will always be the true mascot no matter what they come up with. I think Dan Jones days are number.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-25T22:55:35-06:00

ID

156319

Comment

I think the new mascot should be the alligators. It would go with the little emblems on all the frat boys' shirts.

Author

kudzuking

Date

2010-02-26T09:46:54-06:00

ID

156320

Comment

Kudzu, Any well versed person knows that Lacoste uses a crocodile, not an alligator. Head over to the Rogue. They carry 'em and will help you out.

Author

RobbieR

Date

2010-02-26T09:50:03-06:00

ID

156334

Comment

Baquan- If I'm not maistaken they have not done away with "Dixie", Jones made the band stop playing "From Dixie With Love". They limited the band from playing "Dixie" to once a half back in the early 80's. but that might have changed.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T13:04:09-06:00

ID

156336

Comment

Baquan- Ok,I have never heard the flag called "Dixie" before.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T13:39:18-06:00

ID

156337

Comment

This article brings it all into the correct perspective: http://chadgibbs.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/the-sec-as-star-wars-characters/

Author

GradyGriffin

Date

2010-02-26T14:03:55-06:00

ID

156341

Comment

Hmm. Can we get a caricature of a James Dean look a like for the mascot? A rebel after all...

Author

Pilgrim

Date

2010-02-26T14:33:34-06:00

ID

156342

Comment

What about Steve Jobs? You could have a mascot wearing a black turtleneck and jeans, thinning hair and a beard -- that'd really communicate that Ole Miss is forward-thinking, tech-minded; interested in the arts and sciences. This could be cool.

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-26T14:38:19-06:00

ID

156343

Comment

At this point I think we can all wave Col. Reb bye-bye. I, for one, heartily embrace the Admiral as his replacement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNLuq0lW50k

Author

bill_jackson

Date

2010-02-26T14:39:39-06:00

ID

156344

Comment

Baquan- nope never heard that, must just be a yankee thing. LOL

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T14:40:43-06:00

ID

156345

Comment

Funerals for Colonel Reb are taking place all over the state. [IMG]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j57/btarver_photos/ColRebincoffin.jpg[/IMG]

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T14:50:02-06:00

ID

156346

Comment

Colonel Reb in a coffin is a perfect symbol for a 21st century Mississippi. Bubba, "Dixie flag" is not a yankee thing. In Neshoba County the Confederate flag was always referred to as the Dixie flag. And if you're not sure of a reference someone uses, before acting like it can't possibly be real, you can always Google it and see if thousands of other references happen to turn up.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T14:59:19-06:00

ID

156347

Comment

And in case I haven't said it before, Bubba, I swear to God you're a plant from the NAACP. You just make it way too easy.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T15:02:56-06:00

ID

156348

Comment

Baqaun, Excellent point. In an English class during my junior year, my professor asked the black students in our section if any of them were offended by the mascot. Out of the 5 or 6 students, none of them found it offensive. One of the female black students actually said, "It's just a goofy ole' white man dressed up." Another student, a college athlete said, "To me, the only people who find it offensive are the white people that try to convince us it's offensive." The other students nodded in agreement, saying that they found it offensive when other people tried to tell them what to think. I sat there silently, but also wondered to myself if this is a common thought. I really don't know. I wish the media "objectively" interviewed other black students and then presented us with a "fair" depiction of their thoughts.

Author

jbreland

Date

2010-02-26T15:08:14-06:00

ID

156349

Comment

You know, Jackson, if one person finds a symbol of a racist past and war over slavery offensive, regardless of race, then it makes sense to change it in a public university, no? And when it comes to recruitment, there is no way to know how many people pass over Ole Miss due to not the symbols of the past, but the people who fight so vehemently to keep them. Those are the folks who ruin our reputation as a state, and that school's rep as an institution. Oh, and before someone jumps on here and starts saying the Civil War wasn't about slavery, allow me link the Mississippi Articles of Secession yet again, in case someone has forgotten them from history class. It begins: rticles of Secession, State of Mississippi, 1861 A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union. In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery, the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T15:25:18-06:00

ID

156350

Comment

Donna- Of course I have heard the flag called the "Dixie Flag" but I have never heard anyone refer to the flag just as "Dixie", that's a song or place. Somebody says "Dixie" I think song or South not flag. That's why I misunderstood him earlier when he said they got rid of "Dixie". My response to Banquan @12:40 was sarcasm, it just doesn't come across too well on the internet.

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T15:25:54-06:00

ID

156351

Comment

Bubba, it's hard to separate your sarcasm from your love of the old south sometimes. I also heard the phrase "waving Dixie" repeatedly growing up in Mississippi. I also remember sitting at the damn Neshoba County Fair in my high school band playing "Dixie" with rebel flags waving all around and old men standing up in defiant attention. And some people wonder why I'm not a fan of the fair. I saw it in all it's racist glory growing up. Oh, in case anyone isn't making the connection, the Dixie flag, and the song, were the symbols and theme music to a war that was, as the Articles above state so clearly, "horoughly identified with the institution of slavery, the greatest material interest of the world." So, yes, Bubba and Jackson and others, I am personally offended by these taxpayer-supported symbols telling the world that Mississippi has not changed, even when I know that many of us have. You don't have to be black to feel this way, and the idea that you would is about as offensive as the song, the flag and the old-slave-owner-in-a-tux.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T15:31:35-06:00

ID

156352

Comment

"Dixie", that's a song or place For the record, Dixie is also a form of currency and the name of a New York slave-holder, not to mention a really rotten state of mind.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T15:44:19-06:00

ID

156354

Comment

What about Steve Jobs? Would that make it iOle Miss, or Ole iMiss? iUM? I like it! Free iPads for everybody!!!

Author

Tre

Date

2010-02-26T15:56:13-06:00

ID

156355

Comment

You could dump the "Ole" part, and just call it the iMiss (uMiss?). At that point, UM's karmic exorcism would be about complete. Of course, the school would then lose its, er, charm for certain folks. ;-)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T16:04:04-06:00

ID

156356

Comment

If he doesn't want to give his money to Ole Miss, because he thinks Colonel Reb should be the mascot,that's his choice it's his money after all. Doesn't make him a racist. Of course it's his choice. And he may or may not be a racist. But the circumstantial evidence doesn't look good under your description. Then there's that whole issue that most white people who were adults in Mississippi in the mid-20th century were racists (either outwardedly or by not wanting to rock the boat), our own families included. So it's not like it's a stretch to say that someone in his 80s might not have reformed. Might have. But if so, maybe the Col. Reb issue might not be the million-dollar sword he chooses to fall on.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T16:09:48-06:00

ID

156358

Comment

I think this is a little over the top. Everyone's emotions are running thermo-nuclear and this is just the MASCOT? Are there not larger, more pressing issues at hand. Like 'um, let me think... HEALTH CARE, THE ECONOMY, crazy Republicans blocking progess at every turn....I could go on and on but you get the picture. Walter, what is that G-normous log doing on your shoulder? Get some professional help and sort out all this anger. REALLY. SERIOUSLY. It is obviously poisoning your heart. Peace out guy. The past is just that. PAST, we can't go back and change it. The only thing we can do is strive for better and move on. Each generation is getting progressively color blind. We are learning, abet, slowly. But progess is being made. We need to stand together or we will all fall apart.

Author

sassy

Date

2010-02-26T17:14:43-06:00

ID

156359

Comment

Sassy, people are having a discussion -- nothing here is "thermo-nuclear"! It has been in the past, but this is a very light-hearted discussion compared with past discussions. So relax; having a conversation about this is good, and it has absolutely nothing to do with whether people here are also thinking and working on other important issues at the same time. It's a logical fallacy to say that having this conversation somehow negates others. And Walt's heart is not poisoned. I've known him for a long time now. He is expressing his feelings that make others uncomfortable because they're not expressed often publicly. We don't silence that kind of thing here, because it does us all good to hear it. You're welcome to join into this or other conversations, but chiding people for having it won't get you anywhere. And often tough conversation is *exactly* what it takes to get people to stand together. I can't tell you how many white people have said to me that they had never seen the Articles of Secession, which goes against what they were taught their entire lives: that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. This kind of conversation often opens doors of understanding just at the point where it's the most uncomfortable. The we'll-get-there-slowly approach if we just all get along and not talk about tough issues really only helps those of us who already hold the top end of the stick. So we welcome your participation in this conversation we've been having on this site for almost eight years now. You're also welcome to just listen or to turn away from it. But you are not welcome to tell people to stop having it.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T17:29:09-06:00

ID

156360

Comment

I can't tell you how many white people have said to me that they had never seen the Articles of Secession Funny you should say that, I was having lunch with a good friend yesterday and we actually had that conversation. Thanks for posting the link again, I'm going to email it to him. ;-)

Author

WMartin

Date

2010-02-26T17:53:57-06:00

ID

156361

Comment

Donna- you know I am the same age as you, and lived in Mississippi Delta my whole life until 8yrs ago, I still trying to figure out who these people are that you say were never taught about slavery being an issue of the Civil War? I was never taught the Civil War wasn't about slavery. Even in the private school I went to we read the Articles of Secession and it was taught that the Civil War was about many things, slavery,states rights and economics difference,but slavery was the main issue. You tend to leave out the other factors. :)

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T18:47:42-06:00

ID

156362

Comment

Sasssy your name is befitting. It is funny to me that you have a problem with my comments and none with Bubba's. You must be a southern girl of the ole style and not the beautiful ones Frankie Beverly and Maze sings about. I guess if a black man isn't kissing booty, or ignoring or discounting the past relative to black folks, there has to be something wrong with him. I don't have a log on my shoulder. Instead I have great sense, knowledge of politic, sociology, customs, race, racism, and even some sensitivity for those poor and abused blacks who are deceased and can't speak for themselves. Sassy the world doesn't revolve around your issues and your perceptions. You would be shocked to learn the number of friends I have of all races, sexes and religions, and the number of people who respect my opinions. Bubba while I totally disagree with your opinions here, I certainly respect your passion. Passion is good and when it's lined up with the right cause or opinion, you see power at its fullest. Finally, until the vote turned out right, my kinfolks were prepared to quit and transfer. I would love to see ole miss fill an all white squad and get the hell beat out of them. They would probbably have to call back Vought because wouldn't any coach with any sense coach a team like that in the SEC in the new times with ole miss becoming the New Miss. Finally! Cheers.

Author

Walt

Date

2010-02-26T18:51:35-06:00

ID

156363

Comment

still trying to figure out who these people are that you say were never taught about slavery being an issue of the Civil War? People say that the Civil War wasn't about slavery all the time all over Mississippi and often in other parts of the country (remarkably). I agree: It's ignorant. And again, all you have to do it is Google it to find evidence that something happens that you're not aware of. It becomes "economics." Yes, the economics of slavery, dumba$$. Or, it was about "state's rights." Yes, state's rights to be slaveholding. It's remarkable what people will believe and the stark fact they will avoid when they don't want it to be true. I see it all the time in my business. People slam the messenger -- but if they're not actually refuting the facts of the message, they're just trying to change the subject. We all know it. And it wasn't just "an issue" of the Civil War, as I'm sure you know. Of course, the Articles of Secession show that it was *the* issue of the Civil War.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-26T20:40:14-06:00

ID

156364

Comment

Speaking of slamming the messenger, Messy who sounds just like an ole doctor in Jackson who used to try to tell me what to think and believe. Messy or Sassy is the one who needs the help. Black folks say I'm not Black enough, and White people say I'm too Black. Fortunately, I know I'm just right, Walt. Sorry, I meant Sassy! My bad. I apologize.

Author

Walt

Date

2010-02-26T21:32:27-06:00

ID

156365

Comment

Donna, surely you didn't violate your own rules and call me a dumbass?

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T22:08:20-06:00

ID

156366

Comment

Bubba, I don't think Donna was calling you a dumba$$. Rather, she was referring to the whole dumba$$ argument that the Civil War was caused by economic factors, as if those economic factors did not revolve around slavery.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2010-02-26T23:11:15-06:00

ID

156367

Comment

From another part of the articles: Utter subjugation awaits us in the Union, if we should consent longer to remain in it. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. We must either submit to degradation, and to the loss of property worth four billions of money, or we must secede from the Union framed by our fathers, to secure this as well as every other species of property. It was economics. After all, slaves are property.

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2010-02-26T23:16:45-06:00

ID

156368

Comment

Brian- LOL I knew what she meant, I was just messing with her, cause she is usually more calm than the rest of us. ;)

Author

BubbaT

Date

2010-02-26T23:19:42-06:00

ID

156369

Comment

It's interesting the South was willing to secede from the Union and risk getting slaughtered rather than submit to subjugation by the Union or another. Yet these same people (the South) didn't have a problem whatsoever with the subjugation of Black human beings for the purposes of greed and and self elevation. The Confederacy or South wanted to get rich off the labor of other human beings yet they called Blacks lazy and without the impetus to work unless forced to and enslaved by Whites, who erroneously called themselves civilized and the Slaves uncivilized savages. Never mind the fact that Blacks were working and building thriving and humane civilizations before the White man invaded and robbed Africa of countless natural and human resources. Personally I have sense enough to discern who the real savages were, and history is replete with evidence to support it. Fast foward from 50 years of slavery to cotton for the benefit of ole master before the Emancipation Proclamation and another 100 years after slavery with Blacks still toiling cotton for southern Whites specifically and the nation generally, then add another 50 to 60 years of the South, by and large, still supporting the Confederacy by holding on in as much as it still can by the rebel flag, colonel reb, the kkk, the cocc, dixie songs, the repugnant party, et al, and tell me what you still see. We see a region still very much diseased and intent on staying that way.

Author

Walt

Date

2010-02-27T00:29:18-06:00

ID

156372

Comment

I wasn't calling Bubba a dumba$$ -- although I might have had he been one of the dumba$$es who believe that the Civil War wasn't about slavery. ;-) And Bubba and I have been sparring for a while now; and he's right, I always very calmly butcher his arguments. ;-P It's not that easy to get my hackles up these days. It's amazing what a bit of meditation, a bunch of prayer and eyes focused on the prize does for one's frame of mind. I'd guess the same is true for that little fellow you're sporting these days, Brian. It's easy to remember what matters. And recognize what doesn't.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-02-27T15:09:55-06:00

ID

156373

Comment

On the mascot front, the New York Times has picked up the story noting the candidacy of Admiral Akbar to replace Colonel Reb. Apparently there's even been a reaction from Lucas... In a statement the studio said: "Lucasfilm is flattered that our Star Wars fans at the University of Mississippi are considering electing Admiral Ackbar as their mascot. The last time we checked in with Admiral Ackbar he was leading the Rebel Alliance Fleet on a critical mission so it will be difficult for him to show up for the games!" I interpret that last line as a shot across the bow regarding how Lucasfilm will stick it to Ole Miss for licensing Ackbar if he actually wins. ;-)

Author

Todd Stauffer

Date

2010-02-27T15:25:07-06:00

ID

156481

Comment

If Colonel Reb was supposedly modeled after some acceptable black character named "Blind Jim" (who I've never heard of), why not just make Colonel Reb black and call him Blind Jim? They can be the Ole Miss Blind Jimmies (or just jimmies, hehe). That cool with Bubba T?

Author

DrumminD21311

Date

2010-03-02T19:04:32-06:00

ID

158522

Comment

"Learn from it, and don't let it repeat itself. Don't try to erase from memory just because you don't like some part of it. That would be like erasing the Holocaust from history books because you didn't like Hitler's mustache." You are making a false dichotomy (is that the word I want?) We're not arguing that Hitler be removed from the history books. We're arguing that he not be used as the mascot for a public school representative of the great state of Mississippi, that Nazi flags not be waved at nationally televised events, and that fans not chant "The Gestapo will rise again!" Now don't bash me for comparing Ole Miss fans to Nazi, because you sir are the one that originally played the Hitler card!! Just change the damn mascot, to a freaking turtle or something!! Problem solved! Noone's hurt!

Author

DrumminD21311

Date

2010-07-05T19:12:35-06:00

ID

158530

Comment

Ryne, who the fuck are you to tell us to get over ourselves?

Author

Brian C Johnson

Date

2010-07-07T12:59:28-06:00

ID

158531

Comment

"Ryne, who the #### are you to tell us to get over ourselves?" Awwww shiiiii...It's on! It has been broughten!

Author

DrumminD21311

Date

2010-07-07T13:13:02-06:00

ID

158533

Comment

I think you're looking for "false analogy," Drummin, but you're absolutely right. It's nonsensical to equate reject the state using racist symbols in taxpayer-funded ways/schools to erasing the history books. We need *more* in the history books about this stuff, not less. A more apt analogy would be saying that the German government should still prominently support/use/display the swastika as a symbol. The rest of that post is so ridiculous that it doesn't bear response. It's pitiful to feel so privileged that you feel you have the right to tell other people to "get over" the need to challenge the government's use of racist symbols. You have to live in a very tiny bubble not to understand why this matters to people. And it has nothing to do with erasing anything from history; that's just ignorant.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2010-07-07T15:45:34-06:00

ID

158534

Comment

*throws a yellow flag* Reductio ad Hitlerum! 15 yards and loss of credibility. It's amusing that someone would equate Col. Reb to Hitler's mustache trying to defend it. Ryne, you break Godwin's law = Fail.

Author

WMartin

Date

2010-07-07T16:12:30-06:00

ID

158535

Comment

I don't get the frenzied appeal of "Colonel Reb" as a mascot. How is an effete, gray-haired dandy a rallying point for a sports team?

Author

Ghost_of_General_Sherman

Date

2010-07-07T17:02:43-06:00

ID

158536

Comment

"I don't get the frenzied appeal of "Colonel Reb" as a mascot. How is an effete, gray-haired dandy a rallying point for a sports team?" LOL!! I never noticed that. He does have those come hither eyes. I expect him to say, "Well hi there soldier. Did you just come home from the front? Must get awful hot and sweaty in the summer heat in that grey uniform with all those young men crowded around you, and awful lonely without the company of a good woman. Why don't you come inside, take your shoes off, and slip into something more comfortable? I'll have one of my slaves bring you a nice long cigar. Mmmm, puff it slow so that you can savor the taste."

Author

DrumminD21311

Date

2010-07-07T19:52:55-06:00