Jackson Free Press

Last month, The Clarion-Ledger reported that a group of community citizens had formed a group called Jackson 2020 to combat Jackson's population shift and work on rebranding the city to attract more residents.

In the Ledger article, Downtown Jackson Partners President Ben Allen touted an upcoming Feb. 23 community meeting that included entrepreneurs Jeff Good and Brad "Kamikaze" Franklin. Allen posted the article in a Feb. 22 Downtown Jackson Partners blog—including the headline including "Jackson 2020," which Allen did not challenge then. Later, after the meeting, he said that the group had never been called that.

In last week's issue, The Northside Sun did a follow-up story backing up Allen's statement that the group Jackson 2020 never existed, the Northside Sun reported March 17.

Franklin said today that the meeting was not a formalized committee, but a group of citizens who wanted to discuss their concerns over recent U.S. Census data showing that Jackson dropped 5.8 percent over the last decade. He said he didn't know where the name Jackson 2020 came from.

Is this a result of the Ledger getting their facts wrong, or is someone changing their tune?

Previous Comments

ID

162645

Comment

Although I doubt very seriously he will say, the only gentleman who knows or can contend where he got the information, is the CL reporter. As far as I know, this group never existed now or then and had nothing to do with my email or subsequent gathering. And although the census article was a catalyst for my email, the gathering focused on concerns outside of the census. I really hate that this "2020" business has diminished what I envisioned as a call to action for fellow jacksonians. But I guess the CL is good for creating occasional chaos. Somethings strange indeed. I wasn't talked to for the article so it beats the hell outta me.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-21T22:02:45-06:00

ID

162648

Comment

Can someone explain to me what the big deal about Jackson 2020 is? Who cares whether it's a group or not? Who cares when it started? Seems like all the emphasis is on the "confusion" instead of the intentions of said group (or not group). This is the reason why we get so easily sidetracked in this city. Our focus continues to be on the wrong thing. If there is a Jackson 2020, props to them for wanting to see something better for Jackson. NOTE: I was at the meeting Ben called and there was no tag added to the group of people there so I seriously doubt that we were Jackson2020 and were not told such. Is this an effort to find someone at fault and run with it? Geesh! Wouldn't the discussions at the meeting be a more newsworthy topic than if the CL incorrectly issued a name to a group or not? AND, if there were 70 people at this meeting, why are the only people named here Jeff Good and Kamikaze? Could it not be determined who others were or is that not newsworthy either? LOSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-22T07:48:45-06:00

ID

162650

Comment

This does sound like a tempest in a teapot. But what's weird to me is that Allen posted the CL article on the Downtown Jackson website *before* the event, complete with the Jackson 2020 headline. Click here to see it; it's still up as of right now. Why didn't he call it out then and correct it? In other words, thanks to his own blog post, Downtown Jackson Partners promoted in advance an event called "Jackson 2020," regardless of what they say about it now (and for reasons that seem completely unclear; who cares what a hastily thrown-together meeting to complain about white flight was called!?!) This whole effort to backtrack from Jackson 2020 is very strange. There must have been some sort of pushback to the effort that we're not all aware of. And the Northside Sun story just reads like a Ben Allen plant. One wonders why he is so worried about something that seems so irrelevant. I agree that there seem to be a lot more important things to focus on. This whole effort to roll back Jackson 2020 just serves to make me curious as to why. Tom's point is the best one: The Clarion-Ledger should be corrected, or at least augmenting in an intelligent way, its original sensationalistic "white flight" coverage. If you haven't, be sure to read Ward Schaefer's story last week that points out that white flight has actually started slowing down for the first time in decades. That is a very different narrative than what the Ledger hawked to try to sell a few newspapers. One thing our city needs is more leaders, and media, that get the facts straight before wigging out over stuff. All the hysteria does nothing useful.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T08:49:42-06:00

ID

162652

Comment

I suppose I can see your position, Donna. Strange? Yes, I suppose it is strange that it seems to be some backtracking going on. However, I really hope that this confusion does not divert the passion of those who want to address issues that face the city. My stand from the beginning (and many share) is that PEOPLE are leaving Jackson, black and white. Ok, so the numbers are "slow", "down" -- great. But just in the last three months, I know personally some very valuable resources have vacated Jackson and Mississippi. Therefore, regardless of the numbers printed in the Census report, we've got to give a considerable amount of a attention to the fact that our future leaders are not finding our city progressive and economically viable enough to settle down and contribute to our future. So, strange or not, Jackson 2020 or not, the fact still remains (at least in my mind) that the real story is that the community cares enough to get together and discuss (NOT COMPLAIN) about ways to improve our city and fight to keep those who can contribute to our progression here.

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-22T09:22:05-06:00

ID

162653

Comment

However, I really hope that this confusion does not divert the passion of those who want to address issues that face the city. I seriously doubt that will happen. That effort doesn't depend on this group or what it was called or anything else. That effort has been building for years now. To me, the whole hysteria over "white flight" was more of a hysterical bump in the road than anything. We will be revealing an exciting new effort very soon for community engagement that is a very different model than putting several "experts" at a table and then having audience members "complain." Stay tuned. we've got to give a considerable amount of a attention to the fact that our future leaders are not finding our city progressive and economically viable enough to settle down and contribute to our future. This statement I do not agree with. People will come and go, depending on their circumstances, jobs, relationships, education needs, mood, etc. But there is a remarkable sense among a vast swath of younger people here that Jackson is now COOL. I have seen so many try to leave and then come back because they don't find the same get-er-done spirit elsewhere. I believe strongly that the hysteria over the bad reporting over "white flight" actually downplayed the progress we have been making, which in turn can put a damper on progress. Even from some who meant well, the whole thing was played wrong, and fortunately that, too, will pass.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T09:54:36-06:00

ID

162654

Comment

I KNOW that Jackson is cool and so does some of the people who left here searching for more.

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-22T10:00:43-06:00

ID

162655

Comment

Another thing: We need our city "leaders" (and by that, I don't mean just elected officials by any stretch) to understand that our city's future will not be built on the backs of huge publicly financed projects like arenas, convention center hotels, huge lake developments and what not. Those projects can work to some extent when done intelligently (or really screw up when a bad mayor and his cronies and cheerleaders convince a Texas businessman to buy up a bunch of downtown property needed for other things. Ahem.). I am thrilled to see the mayor and city administration pushing for the public-art initiative. That indicates that they are figuring out how to take a more 21st century approach to eco-devo that isn't tired to huge development projects people can't afford. We need our leaders to push for small development projects (and housing) downtown, and we're starting to worry that this isn't happening like it used to. Take Downtown Partners, for instance. Most of their blog posts (other than reposting event flyers, which is great) is pushing some huge, expensive, controversial development. What *other*, more doable ideas should we be discussing? And how much energy is taken up in trying to do these huge public works? I find it a bit concerning. One of our public conversations needs to be about just what kind of development is going to be (a) affordable, (b) not an environmental nightmare, (c) sustainable and (d) the kind of development that looks forward to what will actually attract and keep our young people. Kaze likes to talk about elected officials being "out of touch"; well, I will say that a public-arts initiative is anything but "out of touch." Two Lakes, on the other hand ...

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T10:01:34-06:00

ID

162656

Comment

I KNOW that Jackson is cool and so does some of the people who left here searching for more. Queen, we can't put padlocks at the city limits. ;-) People, and especially young people, will go into the larger world. Our job is to make them want to come back when they do, to be a part of something special. That is happening, and we can see it all around us, among young people of all races. It's very exciting. I always say to people who decide to leave: "Be sure to replace yourself." But, as I've said repeatedly, we can't have a serious conversation about people leaving without talking seriously about jobs -- and support of locally owned businesses that create jobs. What kills me is to see people who say they care about the growth of the city go outside the city limits and spend money at Walmart. Or, even to watch people get excited over Groupon coupons, even though their salespeople live in Chicago and aren't creating good jobs here. If we mean this thing, it is up to all of us (who live in the city or in the suburbs) to really dig in and think and spend locally. We need to go to great lengths to support people creating and growing jobs here, not those sending jobs to other states (looking at you, Clarion-Ledger). People simply can't stay without jobs, and they will move to other cities with some of our same problems (like crime) if there are good jobs and quality of life there. Let's keep our eye on the local ball here. Not saying you're not, but a lot of people aren't. It's remarkable to me that so many people suddenly *noticed* that white folks (and now others) have left Jackson. Where have they been all these decades? I'll say it again: The good news is that the trend is starting to slow down and reverse precisely because of the hard work people are putting in. We must keep it up and do more of it, not bash people because they leave or choose to live in the suburbs. We're all in it together.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T10:32:02-06:00

ID

162658

Comment

Donna, you are right. I didn't mean to give the implication (and I don't think anyone reading it would go as far as to think I did) that anyone who has ever lived in Jackson should never ever leave. Hell, I left. I am talking about being in a position where we can offer people what they leave the city to find in other placed. if they still leave then we couldn't have offered them anything more to stay anyway. I'm talking about people who feel forced to have to leave. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Donna, you confuse me. First of all your third paragraph is EXACTLY what I've been trying to get across. But different from your earlier post that to me lended to some idea that we don't need to do anything to keep people here. Then as a journalist, you don't understand how people haven't noticed that white folks have left. See, it's making statements like this that make me realize that you may not be as familiar as you think with the black experience. There are people in this city who never leave their side of town. they never even SEE a dam white person. Why do you think they would know that white folk have moved to the suburbs? And I find it offensive that you so easily make that statement as if something is wrong with them for not knowing or noticing? Where have they been all these decades....the same place they are now??? -- on the same streets; going to the same grocery club; the same night club; with the same buddies. It's people in this city that could not drive you to Fondren if you paid them to. Those are the people you say you want to bring to the table (minus the experts). But if you go to them with the attitude that you just displayed in that last statement of the third paragraph....you will offend them. Does that matter to you? I know how you've been getting onto people for sticking to the subject so, I'll let the people get back to talking about the "confusion" of the Census report.

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-22T10:51:26-06:00

ID

162660

Comment

First, Queen, you should know by now that I don't worry a whole lot about offending people when discussing issues that matter. I wouldn't be a newspaper editor if I did! Donna, you confuse me. First of all your third paragraph is EXACTLY what I've been trying to get across. But different from your earlier post that to me lended to some idea that we don't need to do anything to keep people here. Why would this confuse you!? That paragraph summarizes the whole mission of the Jackson Free Press and our message about the city. We've been consistent almost a decade now on building bridges and trying to reverse the "brain drain" that has infected our city and state (not to mention exploding myths that have led so many white people to "flee" from a majority-black city). There is nothing new there. We have always sung this tune, and so have many people. That's one reason it can seem disheartening and a little insulting for people to see a newspaper headline about white people leaving and suddenly wig out. People need to tune in to what's already going on and being discussed and being done. Hysteria never solves anything, which pretty much is my whole message. It just makes things seem hopeless (much like the whole Perception-Gate of the past). Then as a journalist, you don't understand how people haven't noticed that white folks have left. See, it's making statements like this that make me realize that you may not be as familiar as you think with the black experience. You'll hate this statement, Queen, but sometimes people say the same thing about you. Are you out of touch with the fact that many of us–black, white and other–don't care if the demographic ends up 90 percent black, and 10 percent white IF it is a strong, progressive, creative city that puts the focus first on its residents?! I don't prefer that -- I love diversity in all its forms -- but I'm not going to beg people who hate "the other" to stay just so things look "even." Frankly, we're better off without some people. There are people in this city who never leave their side of town. No doubt. Black and white. Although it can be more difficult for black people to do that, considering the lack of services and commerce in some neighborhoods, due to the massive white and business flight over the decades. All of that said, the people who freaked out over these headlines and started calling Jackson 2020 meetings due to their sudden realization that Jackson suffers from "white flight" were not black people who never see a white face. We both know that, regardless of our familiarity with the apparently monolithic "black experience" of which you speak. I'd also respectfully suggest that many people in all of our communities are fully aware of what white flight has done to the city. There are intelligent people in all of our neighborhoods, regardless of their education level. I certainly can't speak for all of them, and neither can you. Beyond that, that paragraph doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. You seem to be saying that a lot of people in black neighborhoods who never see a white face are freaking out that too many white people are leaving. And that, somehow, I'm going to offend them by saying that the media and some people are suddenly noticing the horrible and long-term effects of white flight and acting like it just started in the last decade. Meantime, you and others avoid talking about the big ole elephant in the room: jobs. And I assure you, that is an issue that is felt in every neighborhood, regardless of familiarity with the "creative class," how to get to Fondren (where you and I both live), or what Kenny Stokes or Frank Bluntson does in city council meetings. Utimately, Queen, if you pay attention, our message is not very different. I just don't hanker to the drama and hysteria, and believe it will have the opposite effect and, actually, drive more people out of the city. It certainly plays right into the hands of people who hate the city.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T11:50:55-06:00

ID

162661

Comment

(Beyond that, I must fully focus on the job, so not much response for a while. Doesn't mean I don't love you, Queen. Smile.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T11:51:46-06:00

ID

162665

Comment

I don't avoid ANYTHING EVER! I just don't see the elephant in the room being the same elephant that you see. JOBS! Really? Is that waht you think the problem is....really? Anyhoo....I knew before I got here to read this that your comment would say that black folk aren't the ones who didn't know about white flight. So, before I even go any further, I'll give you that one....because you are so familiar with all things black. So, far be it for me to even speak on that.... :-)Love doesn't have anything to do with it. We can't seem to find a middle ground on most things....more and more lately. Interesting. But I certainly do love u too!

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-22T13:54:00-06:00

ID

162666

Comment

JOBS! Really? Is that waht you think the problem is....really? Well ... yes. It is a huge problem for Jackson. People leave for jobs, you know. However, it is not the only problem, of course. So, before I even go any further, I'll give you that one....because you are so familiar with all things black Come on, Queen. That's the best you got? You're starting to sound like Kim Wade--resorting to belittlement when the argument doesn't go your way. You're better than that. If you don't just read every other word or sentence, you know that I said above that none of us can speak for every member of any group, nor should any of us try. That is the exact opposite of your attempt at insult. We can't seem to find a middle ground on most things....more and more lately. Actually, I think we have plenty of middle ground. I'm not asking you to agree with everything I say, and I said above that, other than the hysteria, we are making much the same argument in a big-picture way. So I don't know where you're getting that there is little "middle ground." Of course, there is. I just don't like the same level of drama that you seem to dig. ;-) If you pay attention, I am forever more trying to tamp down destructive drama, while encouraging people to roll up their sleeves and get to work, while ignoring the naysayers. Yes, I will call out injustices and idiocy -- we needed Kaze's public outcry over that P.F. Chang's manager to make a difference -- but I tend to roll my eyes over people screaming generalities over large, complicated issues like "white flight" and crime "perception." That kind of script is written and/or pushed by folks with forked tongues, and the good people of Jackson need to not get sidetracked from the work that we're doing -- work that takes time, good conversation, thought and focused action to get done. In other ways, it is the work that will (and probably is) reversing the flight. But Rome won't be rebuilt overnight. (Not that we want to rebuild the *old* Jackson. We need a new city where all are welcome at the table -- and in the workplace. And one where we have more local workplaces because people support local businesses and, therefore, job creation.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T14:21:09-06:00

ID

162668

Comment

Ok Ok..Let me see if I got this straight. (And if I dont please clarify your statement for me.) Everyone, including me and the folks who attended the Feb 23rd meeting, got "hysterical" on the white flight issue except for you Donna and my compadres at the JFP? I wouldnt have guessed it reading my email, which you received as well. But keeping your head while all others are losing theirs and blaming it on "white flight" (in best Rudyard Kipling). THEN.. all of us are ignoring the real issue of jobs but you wont acknowledge all the OTHER issues that folks have brought up. I read long threads on both the WJTV and the FOX 40 FB pages after the intital story ran and the funniest thing...NO ONE on either one of those threads mentioned "jobs" as their reason. Im sure there are MANY who have left the city to find jobs in other states. but Hell, a good number of folks in our surrounding cities work IN Jackson. Whether I believe it or support a "theory" or not. Take ME out of it...To NOT acknowledge that some folks are leaving for school, crime, and incompentent gov is disingenuous and condescending to some amongst us who heard other stories from folks you havent talked to.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-22T14:37:12-06:00

ID

162669

Comment

And if we can look past the "clarion ledger does shoddy work" talk for moment(which is like someone saying water is wet), get past the Ben allen secret society theories, and past the meeting full of panicky, hysterical mad men and women (which you could have come to see for yourself but from what I read above you are choosing to put together your own thing... which is cool.), then we all can agree that the "white flight issue" went out the window weeks ago. From that article what we learned is that its NOT just white folks leaving but Black folks as well. Black folks have said they are leaving because of schools. BLACK folks are leaving because they "say" they dont feel safe. BLACK folks are leaving because THEY..not me.THEY say our city council is an embarassment. (whether they know how much REAL power they have or not). Lets take the "white" out of it. In fact, as the article says, white flight is slowing. so now we've got "Black" flight or "Middle class flight" so lets address THAT instead. Me being a PROJack means that I push the positive, as we ALL try to, but also be awake enough to criticize, in love, points where we need work. And graciously adding jobs to the list (because it DOES deserve to be there) we've got 4, 5, maybe 6 areas we need to work on.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-22T14:57:39-06:00

ID

162673

Comment

Well, just great. I just lost a longish response to your first post, Kaze. And they're never the same the second time, so I will summarize: First, your attempts to insult me aren't working, Kaze. I'm trying to have a serious conversation, and you are making fun of the very serious issue of media sensationalism with your comment about The Clarion-Ledger. You can skip over the fact that it was shoddy reporting by the Ledger and others, as well as really stupid headlines, that caused a panic attack for some of you, but I believe it would be irresponsible to do so. If you don't agree, fine, but that doesn't make it unimportant. Many Jacksonians did not get hysterical about the Ledger's hat trick; many people know that there are many and varied reasons for flight from majority-black cities, including very serious and historic problems involving poverty, hopelessness, legacies of racism, lingering racism, lack of good jobs, loss of manufacturing, attacks on the public schools that started at forced integration and culminated in No Child Left Behind, and more. As I've said repeatedly, I believe we need to look at all the *causes* of our problems, especially that major symptom of crime, and tackle them head-on. But suddenly getting wigged out over something that has been happening for decades and is finally started to decrease seems like an exercise in futility. If good ideas -- beyond PR -- grow out of those meetings, then great. Some good people were part of Jackson 2020, or whatever it's called, and I know they/you must have put good ideas and actions on the table. It would be great if a video of that meeting, and follow-ups, were provided to the public for discussion, and if you or someone would post a list of the actions the group identified and the schedule of follow-up meetings. That would feel substantive and something other than hysteria. I don't apologize for disliking drama; it's always counter-productive (and I say that from experience with my own drama or that of others'.) As for putting together our "own thing," no. We want to help facilitate good conversations in the community for whomever wants to participate that do not fall into the trap of all talk and little research and follow-up, which we have all been guilty of. We're trying to use lessons of the past to develop a new approach, and will welcome everyone who wants to participate when we get our heads wrapped around it. By the way, obviously black people leave, too, for the reasons you state and more. The history of the flight started with "white flight," no doubt, but it predictably (and purposefully for some people) turned into shrinking tax/job bases in cities with growing black populations. Obviously, that is going to morph into worsening schools (in some cases) and increased poverty/crime. The same thing can happen in the places people are running to if they don't try to figure out the causes and stop complaining about the symptoms. Me being a PROJack means that I push the positive, as we ALL try to, but also be awake enough to criticize, in love, points where we need work. Same here. I/we have a long track record of doing just that -- and looking for the *facts* and larger context that many others don't bother with (not saying you). And graciously adding jobs to the list (because it DOES deserve to be there) we've got 4, 5, maybe 6 areas we need to work on. Only six? Remind me what they are. And what are the actions attached to them so far?

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T15:28:53-06:00

ID

162674

Comment

Also ... To NOT acknowledge that some folks are leaving for school, crime, and incompentent gov is disingenuous and condescending to some amongst us who heard other stories from folks you havent talked to. I think everyone here can see, if they actually read my comments, that I have never said that some folks don't leave for that reason. That wouldn't make any more sense than denying that many people move out of Jackson to get better jobs. (smile) And I'm not sensing any "secret societies" in this case. Although, who knows, maybe the Better Jackson PAC is looking for a new cause. BOO!

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T15:36:46-06:00

ID

162676

Comment

Donna, I dont have to tell you that one of the first ways to have a serious discussion is to not be condescending to others who have opinions that are different. Speaking for ME, and no one else, you alluded to my email and my concern as being hysterical while you were the calm head giving us the "facts" when that couldnt be farther from the truth. and no one who got my email I believe saw it as panicky or "dramatic". THAT was actually poo-pooing my genuine concern and cll to action. What IS dramatic is going on with the Jackson 2020 silliness (is it real? is it NOT real? oh nooooo) that the CL started and kept rolling by the Northside Sun. Dramatic is saying Im insulting you because I pointed out some things in your post that you didnt clarify. Ive lived here ALL my life so Im familiar with folks white and Black leaving. Very Familiar. Its not necessary for any group or gathering to post videos or send out summaries to JFP of what they discuss. And because you arent there or the creator of said gathering DOESNT mean that its about "PR" and not real solutions. They dont need to send them to me either. doesnt make them less valid or less pivotal. If you or I want to find out when they are Im sure we can find out no? The people I saw there were ALL good people and seemed fed up and ready to DO something about it. and calling THEM hysterical and in need of your calming opinion or anything close to it isnt cool.Whether white flight started 6 decades ago, 6 years ago, or 6 minutes ago. Point is somethng happened for us to finally address iot and THAT is the good thing of all this. Whether YOU or I or our strong opinions and passions are there or not. I think concerned citizens will do JUST fine. Jackson will win. And yeah I said JACKSON!

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-22T16:04:56-06:00

ID

162679

Comment

Damn it to @$%^; I lost my response again. Yes, Houston, we have a site problem. The upshot of the paragraphs I lost is that I'm not condescending to you any more than you are to me when you try to boil my remarks (and all my years of writing and blogging about Jackson's issues) into ridiculous conclusions I would never draw or say. That is insulting, even as I know you don't mean it to be. I am trying to have a conversation that represents what I've heard many people say about your blog post and response to the Ledger's misleading "white flight" stories: that we believe the hysteria is misplaced. Or drama, or whatever you want to call it. You are making those public statements; you cannot turn around and try to tell us that we do not have the right to publicly disagree with you or that doing so is somehow "condescending." My response to that is to get a thicker skin about public criticism (especially if you're ever going to run for office, as many of us hope you do.) Otherwise, I'll respond to other statements later. Need to bail before I lose this one.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T16:48:34-06:00

ID

162681

Comment

Sidebar: Maybe someone could do an article, heck a series, on why the CL has such shoddy, slapstick "reporting." Sensationalist headlines, half baked facts and intermittent proofreading are the norm. Besides the slapdash reporting there's the willy-nilly censorship on their forum board. And I am not referring to the obvious vile racist comments, either. You certainly can't have an impassioned exchange of ideas and debate such as those views expressed here.The CL is honestly not suitable to line a bird cage. I know this because the parrot complained about the quality of the reading material being placed in its cage.

Author

redlion

Date

2011-03-22T17:04:03-06:00

ID

162683

Comment

Donna, cmon now. Here I am thinking Ive got thick skin from all the years of criticism/debate Ive weathered here and on other blogs from good folks keeping me honest. My ONLY quarrel in THIS exchange is Me, my email or any one remotely concerned(or PASSIONATE) about this issue being called "hysterical" or actions as "panicky" THAT is condescending. Criticize away. Disagree as you wish. You know Im up for a rousing dbate and theres a hip hop thread on here 400 comments strong that can attest to my "thick skin" But dont belittle my opinion either..or my passion..OR my knowledge and research on an issue that I looked into before I even spoke. Basically we agree on this issue. At its core we're BOTH about action so I DONT disagree with you just the idea that WE'RE hysterical and YOURE not. the premise that YOUVE got the knowledge and WE havent gotten a frame of reference..unless of course we got it from a JFP article. Which could very well be the case but I NEVER do "hysterical" THATS ALL.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-22T17:23:47-06:00

ID

162684

Comment

Jackson will win. And yeah I said JACKSON! I agree in theory, but I would edit it to say: Jackson will THRIVE. Or, Jackson will OVERCOME. I'm done with the competition between JXN and the suburbs. I don't think it's useful any longer. We're all in this together, and we'll sink or swim together, pardon the cliche.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T17:24:21-06:00

ID

162685

Comment

The public statements that I make/made I stand by and you KNOW i dont mind yall disagreeing. I welcome it. Disagreeing with me is NOT condescending but telling me Im reacting hysterically like i dont have any idea what the heck Im talking about is. As I said. we've got different intel

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-22T17:32:42-06:00

ID

162686

Comment

My ONLY quarrel in THIS exchange is Me, my email or any one remotely concerned(or PASSIONATE) about this issue being called "hysterical" or actions as "panicky" THAT is condescending. Criticize away. Disagree as you wish. But Kaze, that is how it looks to me and others I've talked to about it. I believe it is counter-productive to take the misleading media coverage and be fatalistic about it and make it sound like it's out of control. This is from the e-mail you sent out, called "An Open Letter to Jackson. What Say You?": Friends, this is not the time to play the fiddle as our city burns..figuratively of course. DJP President Ben Allen revealed these numbers weeks ago. And I watched a room full of businesspeople squirm uncomfortably and try to gloss over it. I don't think we want to face it yet. I don't think we want to admit that despite ALL that we have done good, we're still losing citizens. (Sidebar: I hadn't noticed your comment about Allen; was he pushing the "white flight" angle before the Ledger picked it up?) And in the same e-mail, you wrote: This is a SERIOUS issue. Our city IS shrinking. Despite our best efforts, it IS shrinking. People ARE leaving. Lets be frank here. Many have lost confidence and how do we return it? They are embarrassed by our city council. They aren't confident in our administration. They have lost faith in our school system. They don't respect JPD. Again these aren't anonymous posters trying to waller in hate, I'm reading pages upon pages of comments left on the facebook pages of our news stations (see the WJTV, Fox 40, or WAPT pages on FB). So where do we begin? Then you call for a "rebranding" campaign, as well as the ousting of political candidates: If we don't create and institute a comprehensive rebranding campaign immediately we will eventaully jump the shark. If we don't realize that we need to revamp what we are doing we will repeat the same results. If we don't target fresh, new, capable political blood to replace what we have dare I say we're in trouble. Yes, this means that I'm talking about men/women that I love and respect who have outlived their effectiveness. We probably won't agree. Some folks won't like this email..and that's ok. But it's high time someone said it. WE CANNOT WIN IF THE PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING OR NO ONE TO BELIEVE IN! We have given them nothing to rally around. Their confidence has waivered. It's time to put politics, PC, backroom dealings, and the like aside. Now, I agree with a lot of what you said in your open letter, but a lot of the people you sent it to are some of the very people we need to engage in real conversations about *why* the schools have suffered; why jobs are a problem; how poverty leads to crime; and so on. And I really can't apologize for feeling a bit rankled that this kind of "rebranding" call to action comes in response to sensationalistic and out of context coverage of "white flight," when there are so many important issues to be discussed if we are to be serious about helping our city for the people who live here right now, who choose to live here or who can't move out of their situation. In other words, it's the tone and the frame I object to. And that is not condescension to tell you that to your face (so to speak; smile). I've said many times that I believe you are in a great position to do great things in our city, but no great leader can be shielded from criticism and exist in an echo chamber with people who only agree with him/her, or who are afraid to speak up because the leader will take it personally and accuse them of condescension. You opened this can of worms, Kaz, but it doesn't mean you can control what comes out of it. Let's use it for good and some real toe-to-toe conversation about the problems our city faces, the causes and the solutions -- which is about much more than rebranding.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T17:37:56-06:00

ID

162687

Comment

Ill let you make it on that one Donna. Dont want to turn this into a city/burb discussion. But Ill just say for ME..when I actually SEE the surrounding communities, their said Chambers, and their said officials touting "Jackson". Saying positive things about Jackson. including in us in THEIR presentations. etc. When I see the same effort from THEM that youre trying to put in FOR them..THEN Ill say we're all in tis together. But for now actions speak louder than words. Its not a competition in my eyes. We're the Capital! We're the "daddy" so to speak, so we dont need to "compete" with our kids LOL. i wisah them the best. Be WE gotta fix US first. But of course you know, we disagree on this one. and thats fine :-) TOTALLY

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-22T17:40:24-06:00

ID

162688

Comment

Ok *blank stare* Read your post. what about THAT sounded "hysterical". sounded serious yes. I meant my tone to BE serious. Perhaps you can explain it to me. Because I dont see it. At least not the "hysteria"

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-22T17:49:30-06:00

ID

162689

Comment

But Ill just say for ME..when I actually SEE the surrounding communities, their said Chambers, and their said officials touting "Jackson". Saying positive things about Jackson. including in us in THEIR presentations. etc. When I see the same effort from THEM that youre trying to put in FOR them..THEN Ill say we're all in tis together. I feel you on that. That said, I believe they are more likely to do it if we reach out across the divides at this point. Yes, we must defend JXN against attacks, but there are people in the metro who want the city succeed. We must find them and work with them, not lump them under a big stereotyped umbrella. Honestly, I'm changing my tune on this because I've met many people throughout the metro who care about JXN. Many plan to move back into the city when the kids are gone and they can downsize into a condo. Others love to go out int he city and work here, but like to live near the reservoir. Etc., etc. If we build a large tent, and yes filled with love and humor, we can show people the advantages of helping the capital city shine. They will come, and they will spend -- with LOCALLY owned businesses that re-invest here and create jobs. The us-vs.-them fight will only keep us divided and, sadly, conquered.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T17:54:39-06:00

ID

162690

Comment

*Blank stare back* Kaze, your email made it sound like Jackson is hopeless on all fronts with its "take back the city" tone. I don't know what to freakin' call that but hysterical. And inaccurate. Yet your solution to this awfulness on all levels (politics, schools, etc.) seemed to be a *rebranding* campaign. At least tell me you see a tad of logic missing from that conclusion? I'll chalk it up to your passion of the moment, but come on. Yes, we have large problems. No, they are not hopeless. And no, a rebranding campaign is not the answer. Engaged citizenry educated in our problems and their causes and possible lasting solutions who don't think the mayor and city administration has to make everything happen for us is the answer. Or at least the backbone of it. I'm just going to be frank (as if I haven't been): I am sick and tired of seeing a contingent of Jacksonians constantly whine about the city government and what it's not doing for them (including, I might add, people who claim to be anti-government of any sort). My organization doesn't wait for the city or state to tell us we can do anything (other than get a permit or such here or there). We do stuff. We start things. We plan stuff. We brainstorm. We talk. We act. (Or at least a lot of the time.) The idea that, somehow, the solution to Jackson's problem is about the City (or anyone) doing a better job rebranding strikes me as absurd. We *are* rebranding. People are coming here to do interesting things who never considered us before (think Figment). My newspaper is one big rebrand of Jackson that is read far beyond JXN. But it's not the panacea. People are going to leave if there aren't jobs for them; if people aren't supporting local music and arts and businesses; if all our development efforts go into huge, expensive projects that may or may not ever happen and have no connection with what younger workers of the 21st century want out of city; if we don't work to promote outdoor recreation opportunities; if we don't do everything possible to lift up our young people and, thus, prevent crime; and on and on. It's really about what we do. And I know you don't disagree with that, but it is why the whole tempest over incomplete "white flight" coverage really rubbed me the wrong way. Not to mention the fact that much of that same coverage had the tone of blaming black people for "more" white people leaving. Yuck.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T18:06:26-06:00

ID

162691

Comment

a JFP reader just sent me a link to this cached post on the Downtown Jackson Partners blog on Feb. 7, 2011, which says that it is a presentation made to the DJP board on Jan. 11. The reader said: Allen took this blog post down hours after posting it when a commenter pointed out to him that Byram was never part of Jackson. Thus, no de-annexation. It likely is the synthesis of what Kaze referred to in his email. Allen is most definitely the originator of all the hysteria. Maybe this is where the Ledger, et al, got the idea for the big white-flight exposes in the first place? I remember seeing the post briefly and then it disappeared and I hadn't been able to find it again. From the DJP blog post: While these national proclamations are impressive, the "Elephant in the Room" is where Jackson alone stands in this mix. Below are the cold facts: In 1990, metro-Jackson had a population of 395,396 people, of which 202,062 (51%) were citizens of Jackson. Ten years later in 2000, metro-Jackson had grown to 440,801 and Jackson itself had declined in population to 184,256 or 42% of the metro. Some of this loss was attributed to the loss of Byram in a de-annexation lawsuit (estimated 5000), but the bottom line is that we were down in population some 17,806 tax-paying citizens, or essentially a town larger than Madison simply vanished. From 2000 until 2009, this problem continued, as the metro-Jackson area grew to 535,356 while our capital city again declined to 175,021, or now, to about 33% of the entire metro. This equates, from 1990 unto 2009, as an increase in the metro area of some 139,960, or an increase of over 20 people a DAY, while the city of Jackson decreased by 27,041 or almost 4 people a DAY. A city larger than Clinton simply left. I would certainly call that hysteria. Here are the numbers from one of the (cached) Clarion-Ledger stories: Jackson city leaders are worried about new census data showing the city has lost roughly 10 percent of its white population over the last decade. But more to the point, they're worried about losing contributing citizens, regardless of ethnicity. Jackson's population fell more than 5 percent in the past decade, from 184,256 to 173,514. White residents accounted for a great majority of the 10,742 who left. But when they leave, they don't go far. While Jackson still has 31,961 white residents, surrounding cities Madison, Ridgeland, Pearl, Clinton and Brandon have a 120,209 combined population, 85,130 of which is white - or 70.8 percent. Jackson's black community is 137,718, or 79.4 percent of its citizenry which is white - or 70.8 percent.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T19:45:41-06:00

ID

162692

Comment

In the rest of the post is a call for a rather odd mix of big-government largesse as well as privatization of public property (and the uber-expensive Two Lakes, of course): You may be asking "Why are you addressing this?". The answer is simple. We as a city, both public and private, must develop a strong strategic plan and honestly access our strengths and our deficiencies, why both are what they are, and what are we going to do to correct or amplify them? Expand and embrace what is "working" (downtown, Fondren, Belhaven, Medical Mall, the medical industry and such). We must be evenly yoked to the task of improving our tax revenues. Unless economic "drivers" are embraced, this downward spiral can do nothing but continue. Less services means people move which means higher taxes which means people move and so on. We MUST grow our tax base and be aggressive about it. We must develop long range goals that can be attainable. Yes the hope for an arena is bodacious, along with the hopes of a downtown river walk, a "Two Lakes Project" or some variation of it, privatization of government owned properties, tourism drivers such as the "National Civil Rights Museum", the "Mississippi History Museum", the completion of the "Farish Street Entertainment District", etc, and we must utilize strong laws empowering the city to take ownership of dilapidated and condemned buildings for privatization. You can definitely see why he deleted this one.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-22T20:01:44-06:00

ID

162695

Comment

Let me correct you on 2 points. The word "hopeless" appears no where in that email. The guy who coined the term PROJack obviously doesn't think that. Try again. And 2 in the VERY SAME SENTENCE that I talked about rebranding I followed that by saying it isn't the end all be all. We clearly have to different ideals about what "hysterical" is. Nothing you've posted has that tone. Not from me, not from Ben. The numbers may be off, true. There may be more to the story true. But it doesn't mean the premise is wrong. My email came from the folks out in these streets who I talked to. Like I said my intel is clearly different. I'm out and about in this city everyday, in nooks and crannies you haven't been in and heard concerns you haven't heard. But I'm sure you'll figure out a way to poo poo that too lol. In the end, we disagree on methodology. Plain and simple. So lets resign that you will amass folks who think like you and I will align with folks who think like me. In the end, we ALL win as you say. Because ultimately we all want to act. We just disagree on where our energies should go 1st.

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-23T06:26:10-06:00

ID

162696

Comment

I mean look on Facebook. Look at the comments JUST TODAY under WAPT's question of the day. I've prided myself on being real. The ability to be uber positive yet not blow smoke up the collective arses of the folks who respect me and my opinion on these issues. I've been a board member of the Collective. I'm on the Ask for more Arts board, I'm on the Crossroads board. I've gone in front of the city council fighting for funding to not be cut to the Arts Alliance. I've been in the music biz for over a decade. I am at my core a part of the Creative Class. Still am. But I'm not going to tell someone that we DON't need the support of and buy-in from city officials to meet us halfway in making this city better. Not with the things that we KNOW they have no power to do buy with the things we KNOW they DO have the power to do. Figment is GREAT. I'm trying to get them on Direct Line to help them get the word out but Figment doesn't appoint the superintendent or school board. They don't hire the police chief. They aren't stewards of the city budget which determines whether Jatran continues or not. Figment is not on Public access twice a week representing this city to others outside this city. AND IF WE cAN ontrol those things why do we even elect people huh?

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-23T06:42:46-06:00

ID

162697

Comment

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-23T08:01:19-06:00

ID

162699

Comment

I didn't say "hopeless" appeared, Kaz. I said that the tone of the email was "hopeless." I'm not the only one who thinks so. That's the message of essentially saying that the city administration, JPD and JPS are completely ineffective, which is patently false, for one thing. I think the part that puzzles me the most is that after all of that, the answer seemed to be "rebranding" (or PR, as I called it earlier). I believe that JXN needs better PR, but I also believe that it is the tackling of real issues and doing creative things that will send that PR out. It's not "real" to try to gloss over the problems you list in your e-mail with "rebranding," and the people know it. We really need to look at cities like Austin that remade itself from the inside out -- meaning with the kinds of efforts that really made people want to live and stay there. Frankly, we can build a big ole arena or lake property that few people can afford, and still see the same kinds of flight. BTW, I think you'll get the buy-in from city and other officials when you make things happen and not constantly talk about how they've outlived their usefulness, I believe you put it. If that is the case, then why should they take what you want seriously? You can't have it both ways; everyone deserves respect along with fair criticism. When we decided to the BOJ party in the old Cola plant, we didn't ask the city what they thought. We did it. When it got close to the party, we told the city so they could beef up security if they wanted, as all big event planners should do. And we invited the mayor to speak, talk about the Hwy 80 initiative and help inspire those there. We didn't do the party despite him and the city, but we also didn't ask them where to do it. We did it ourselves with minimal (but welcome) help from the city. I truly believe this city is held back by the constant obsession with our public officials (Melton was his own problem and the reason we may never have a Convention Center hotel thanks to getting his friends in Texas to buy up the land, but that's a special case). Sure, run against them. But first do things other than complain about them all the time (you are doing things, too, by the way, so not saying you're n ot). So many people involved in good things here just want to complain about public officials every time I see them. It's boring and a ridiculous competition, as is the city v. burbs battle at this stage in JXN's re-development. It's time to have a 21st century strategy and use 21st century tactics instead of playing into the bash-the-city game. So my advice is to set aside the obsession with elected officials for a little while and just get busy being a leader in the community. The constant complaining about council and the mayor (which, by the way, people know helped bring us Melton, and no one wants a mistake like THAT again) is just counter-productive. Sure, call them out on specifics as needed, but focus energy on getting good things done as you have done so well over the years. The school board is its own can of worms, but you know as well as I do that racial politics are all over that issue and will be for a while. Once again, education and positive actions are the answer (and good columns and inspiring speeches and good journalism). It takes everyone's skills, and some things do take time (younger people, for instance, have much less patience for old-style bash-politics and racial one-up-manship, so help is on the way, if we can do the right kinds of things to keep them here). We must inspire people to use their particular set of skills, not join the flight out of a city that you inadvertently depict as hopeless, or royally screwed on every front, or wait for the city to do everything or "buy in" to every idea. That's a losing cycle--even if a lot of people just love to hear it, and post about it, and call into TV stations about it, and so on. There are always people who love misery and negativity, and they're not the ones who change the world.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-23T08:43:05-06:00

ID

162700

Comment

We clearly have to different ideals about what "hysterical" is. Nothing you've posted has that tone. Not from me, not from Ben. The numbers may be off, true. There may be more to the story true. But it doesn't mean the premise is wrong. We will just have to disagree on that. I disagree with everything you said in that bit. And being that many people think your comments were hysterical and included unfair and inaccurate generalizations, perhaps it would make sense to at least consider other points of view rather than declaring that you and Ben Allen have it all figured out. I sure don't claim to -- it's too complex -- but I know when others are vastly over-simplifying and sensationalizing (which is worse when the facts aren't straight). I also can see the grave risks of your/Allen's tactic backfiring on this city as it did when Melton was elected.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-23T08:46:21-06:00

ID

162701

Comment

Well, as I said. You work your thing and I'll work mine. They city will be better off for ALL positive efforts. We may concentrate on different things but we all want the same outcome. I have just as many emails and fb inbox messages from folks who agree with me as you do from folks saying I'm a purveyor of doom so I could make the same claims you do as far as support is concerned. I've got no one to answer to but myself and the folks who value my opinion. So no one is immune from getting called out. Not trying to make friends and none of these officials make or break me. I'll continue to call a spade a spade. My glad-handing is over. And again because you and the folks who agree with you say it's "hysterical" and oversensationalizing doesn't make it so. It just means you disagree with my methodology. And I have NO problem with that. It wouldn't be fair to call YOUR opinion non-chalant, or one that "buries your head in the sand" or "out of touch" as some folks who have emailed me have said. Why? Because it's YOUR OPINION and you're entitled to it. I haven't once downed your opinion. Only supported mine. Guess what? If you REALLY want to bring ALL people to the table you have to have folks who agree with you AND me at the table. Otherwise you're preaching to the choir. You've been in enough mtgs with me to know. I definitely don't want that. I you want to suggest to others to consider other points YOU have to be prepared to do the same thing. And I havent heard that in this conversation. All Ive heard is "You guys are hysterical and WE are not"

Author

Kamikaze

Date

2011-03-23T09:19:15-06:00

ID

162702

Comment

Well, as I said. You work your thing and I'll work mine. They city will be better off for ALL positive efforts. We may concentrate on different things but we all want the same outcome. No doubt. ;-) So no one is immune from getting called out. Not trying to make friends and none of these officials make or break me. I'll continue to call a spade a spade. My glad-handing is over. No problem with that. We do that as well. I'd just urge you to do it fairly and with specific examples, not in a blanket way that bolsters the stereotypes that the Jackson-haters spread about the city. It just means you disagree with my methodology. And I have NO problem with that. I can tell. ;-) As for the opinion stuff, we can stipulate that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. But the truth is that for years now a handful of loud people have been mad at me because I won't play into their hysteria about the city and help spread it in order to get their man elected or ousted from office. I don't roll that way, and it's a badge of honor for me. If you REALLY want to bring ALL people to the table you have to have folks who agree with you AND me at the table. Of course that's true. But that doesn't mean they get to dominate the conversation and drown everyone else out and spread doom and gloom without getting challenged; I'm not going to host a gathering of whiners who don't commit to positive action. They need to wear their big boy/girl drawers, in other words, and know that not everyone agrees with them. And if they're there just for political reasons, they might as well not show up at all.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-23T09:28:59-06:00

ID

162714

Comment

I'm hearing footsteps in the dark with this. Didn't the good book say be vigilant and watch those people making footsteps in the dark for they bring with them pestilence, division, greed and long suffering for the people? Re-branding the City? I hate to borrow from Keenan Thompson of Saturday Night Live, but what's up with that? What's wrong with the City of Soul? Don't all God's chilluns have soul? Isn't Jackson doing quite fine after Frank stanked up the place? Those doubters should run for Mayor of Jackson so they can be re-branded losers just like the other gentleman did a couple of years ago. According to the poet James Brown, WHAT WE WANT IS SOUL POWER. WHAT WE NEED - SOUL POWER. GOT TO HAVE IT - SOUL POWER! Mayor Johnson you're doing a good job. Keep up the good work. Our prayers and votes are with you. If the rebels and terrorists want to take over Jackson like they did in Egypt and Libya they might as well start getting the coalition together and bomb us. We ain't worried at all, though!

Author

Walt

Date

2011-03-23T16:58:45-06:00

ID

162719

Comment

When we look at white population loss as if it were rats jumping from a sinking ship, we're implying that the ship is sinking. There's no evidence that it is. People are making personal choices based on the options available to them, and whatever those choices are, black communities in Jackson are growing. There were 7,500 more African Americans in Jackson in 2010 than there were in 2000, and the Latino and Asian-American populations are on the rise as well, so clearly we're doing something right; any documentable "decline" in Jackson's appeal is limited to white communities. Amen, amen, amen, Tom. I also adamantly agree with your last statement. Two Lakes is a pipe dream by people who won't deal directly with its real hurdles. The arena could be a good idea, but it's not happening overnight, and it needs a whole lot of study about the pros and cons (and not just by consultants who are pitching to build it). Eminent domain should not be used by the government to take property and hand it over for private development; I'm apparently more conservative than Ben Allen on that point. Put another way: It is fine to have these large, "bodacious" projects knocking around, but I'd really like to see DJP return to its more holistic, integrated approach to remarking downtown (more like it was before Allen took the helm and started using DJP as a pulpit to argue for huge projects, even some not downtown). We need to be hearing about more housing coming online downtown to attract more *residents*; we need to know about the efforts to help artists and *locally* owned businesses get into empty spaces; we need to hear about the kinds of public-arts initiatives that create an Austin-like vibe and attract people back in droves. We need to hear more about redevelopment of existing buildings (like the fabulous King Ed and Standard Life, and plans for Farish Street.) We need to hear about serious effort into outdoor recreation that doesn't always involve motor boats (we have a reservoir). We need to hear more about planting trees rather than taking them down. We have a great thing going downtown that has come from years and years of efforts -- including from forward-thinking developers, citizens, restaurant owners and other local business owners, the city (especially the Johnson administration back then and now) and efforts over a decade by Downtown Jackson Partners. I really hope they stay focused and don't get derailed by Allen's lust for huge, expensive projects. Make some of those happen if you can (like the Civil Rights Museum!), but don't take your eye off the ball of the kinds of things than can turn us into the new Austin. Oh, and a trip over there might prove more fruitful than going to Chattanooga and Little Rock, from what I've seen. And Athens to look at what they've done with the river and GREEN SPACE.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T09:02:11-06:00

ID

162720

Comment

Moral of this story is, don't judge people for leaving this city unless you're ready to take on our city leaders and start holding them accountable. They don't want to be held accountable and the most important thing I learned last week is that they won't be held accountable until the media puts them on blast for doing a bad job. In each instance, no one wanted to talk to me until I mentioned complaining to media outlets. That's sad and it truly discourages me from wanting to live in this city. ---- Torri You are right and you are not alone. Contrary to what's being said here, jobs are not the only or biggest issue that people have when it comes to moving or staying in this city. I hope that your comments are addressed by those who seem to believe that white flight isn't an issue or that "flight" period is an issue. I find it quite ironic that black people coming here stating what seems obvious to us are being told that we are misguided or misinformed about black people leaving/not coming to this city and why. Again, I will state that since January 1, 2011 I KNOW of many young, professionals who have left the city of jackson (BLACK AND WHITE) for an abundance of reasons that are not complimentary to the city. Not all left (matter of fact only one left) for a job or personal choice. The people I KNOW left because they didn't find Jackson to be comparable to other cities as far as night life, police competency and presence, economic development, etc... Now we can continue to act like these folk just don't know what's happening in Jackson if that satisfies the argument, but the fact still remains that OUR CITY is not holding these folk and there IS work to be done. If it was perfect NO ONE would be leaving. Since that isn't the case, the smoking mirrors and glassy eyes are only setting us back. Torri thanks for sharing your story.

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-24T09:33:52-06:00

ID

162722

Comment

Torri, I'm sorry about your purse getting stolen out of your car. It's great that you recovered the credit-card stuff, and the whole thing sucks, I know. However, and I don't mean to be disrespectful, but when I was mugged in NYC, and the guy slapped me, and his buddy took my wallet out of my backpack when I wasn't looking, Mayor Giuliani didn't meet with me, either, nor did I expect him to. And even though the police caught the guy quickly, he no longer had the wallet, and I didn't have a mark on my face, so they couldn't charge him with anything. I also learned not to carry my wallet in my backpack. Moral of this story is, don't judge people for leaving this city I know that part wasn't addressed to me specifically, but note in my comments that I am the one who is NOT freaking out about it, and am quite pleased that the trend is slowing. ;-) I also assume you know that crime also happens outside the city limits, as well as the higher safety risk of commuting back and forth every day, especially in the world of idiots with death wishes texting and constantly talking on cell phones while driving? Also re Groupon, which is a tangent (and let's not let it take over this thread): Of course, it is a good deal for individual customers! My concern is twofold: Groupon is a huge corporation getting rich off local communities without even, apparently, placing jobs and salespeople on the ground here and, second, local businesses can actually be hurt by such a deal if they're not very careful. (See current BOOM Jackson for the pros and cons of such national deal services.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T10:27:22-06:00

ID

162723

Comment

Donna you can not seriously be comparing Jackson to NY when it comes to the Mayor meeting with the citizens to have one on one discussions. Just based on the size of the city, that's not a fair comparison. The Mayor would not be able to do anything else but take one on one meetings. C'mon now! Even still, did you attempt to get a meeting with the Mayor - just curious.

Author

Queen601

Date

2011-03-24T10:31:35-06:00

ID

162724

Comment

Contrary to what's being said here, jobs are not the only or biggest issue that people have when it comes to moving or staying in this city. Queen, no one said that jobs are the only or biggest issue. There are many reasons people move in our very mobile society. It doesn't help your case to dramatically mischaracterize my or anyone's statements. And of course, white flight is an issue. It has been for decades ever since the schools were forced to integrate, as has been stated repeatedly. The problem is when people take the facts out of context and try to place the bulk of the blame on black leadership for white folks fleeing, and that sho does make the white folks feel better about not wanting to live in a majority-black city (as is evidenced constantly on local message board.) Let's just be real about it and say it out loud.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T10:33:01-06:00

ID

162725

Comment

I find it quite ironic that black people coming here stating what seems obvious to us are being told that we are misguided or misinformed about black people leaving/not coming to this city and why. Queen, if you're saying you shouldn't be disagreed with because your black, you're in the wrong place. The truth is, The Clarion-Ledger et al fooled a lot of people of various races with its sensationalistic approach to this story. And Tom's response to this statement above is right on: According to the 2010 census, the city had a net increase of 7,500 black residents between 2000 and 2010. Are you saying that's false data? Because if it isn't, that would seem to me to indicate that the city is doing something right. Our black population is growing; the Census shows that. So if you are saying that black people "are not coming to this city," you are wrong. And that has nothing to do with your race.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T10:36:07-06:00

ID

162726

Comment

Queen, the point about the mayors is that if we want to be a big(ish) city, we have to lose the small-town attitudes. I believe it's absurd to think that the mayor should meet with anyone who has their car broken into (and who left their purse and credit cards in it). That doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic about it. Of course, if we don't mind shrinking into a much smaller city, that kind of attitude would make more sense. But we really can't have it both ways. Personally, I don't want to pay the mayor to meet with every person who suffers a non-violent crime.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T10:38:18-06:00

ID

162728

Comment

"Personally, I don't want to pay the mayor to meet with every person who suffers a non-violent crime." Donna, is that how you summarize Torri's experience? She suffered a non-violent crime, and now demands to meet with the mayor? My reading of her story indicates that her frustration has more to do with the utter lack of interest shown by JPD to apprehend the criminal, and her inability to find anyone in the city government who cares that JPD failed to do the one primary task assigned to them -- investigating crimes. Torri -- I feel for you. Someone close to me was mugged at gunpoint in Belhaven neighborhood a couple years ago. I know for a fact that the card stolen from her wallet was used to pay an electric bill to Entergy. Now, I'm no FBI agent, but I'm pretty sure that electric bills have physical addresses and contact information. And yet -- JPD hemmed and hawed about having to file a subpoena to get the billing records from Entergy, and then finally would not respond when asked why they had failed to do so.

Author

Mark Geoffriau

Date

2011-03-24T12:32:09-06:00

ID

162729

Comment

I totally understand being frustrated with how JPD or individual officers handle the public, especially crime victims. In NYC, in fact, I was friends with a police commander who would call his own precinct to see how they answered the phone and dealt with customers, and other such tactics. That's good management. I don't, however, understand the thought that the mayor is supposed to meet with each person disgruntled over how they're dealt with. I can understand your frustration and anger, Torri, but that part sounds provincial to me, especially on a thread that is about hysteria about our city shrinking from folks who want it to keep growing into a larger city. I believe strongly that a mayor who spends his time that way is not getting to the bigger issues that need to be dealt with. Melton comes to mind; he loved to talk to and charm individual people, but he hurt the city near irreparably with what he didn't get around to doing on an actual chief executive level. This situation sounds like it would have been perfect for the one-on-one with the mayor. I think those are great ideas. I will check with the city and see what their recommended protocol is for someone who is frustrated with police customer server and report back to y'all. I will also add, based on what I learned from hanging around my police commander friend, law enforcement officers see a lot of awful things every week. They tend to never be as sympathetic toward non-violent crimes and robberies (meaning those in which the victim was never in any danger) as we would like them to be, especially those where we-the-citizens leave valuables in our vehicles or in plain view. That doesn't make us feel better, of course. When anyone becomes a crime victim, however minor, our instinct is to want full attention on what happened to us. The reality, whether we like it or not and across the country, is that officers are not always going to react as we want them to, and there is an argument that they should do everything they can to tamp down any drama and put non-violent crimes in perspective. At least here, we do not have an uber-strong police union that defends absolutely anything officers do -- although it always amazes me that the public does not get more upset about excessive force and car chases that endanger the lives of everyone in site, beyond the perpetrator. All that said, there should always be a good way to file complaints about bad procedures and egregious responses by the police. I'll see what I can find out about the current administration on that front.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T12:53:13-06:00

ID

162730

Comment

OK, I just hung up with the mayor's spokesman Chris Mims, who has read this thread. He said that at the mayor's one-on-one on Tuesdays, the mayor does not enter the Council chambers until he has had the chance to speak with every citizen who showed up to talk to him, so that sounds like a great option for folks who want face time with him. Second, Chris said that the JFP command chief made themselves available to Torri, and that she has already met with Chief Winstead, who is over investigations. He said that any citizen who has a complaint about how an officer handles a call can call Police Chief Coleman's office directly to talk to her about it: 960.1217 (our understanding is that the chief is pretty dedicated to dealing with bad officers, so don't count this out due to experiences with past administrations). If you feel like you have experienced a serious grievance at the hands of an officer, you can also call 960.1331 and file an Internal Affairs complaint. Hope all that helps, all.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T13:14:02-06:00

ID

162736

Comment

Torri, let me check with Chris Mims and make sure he didn't say that you had spoken to him. I don't want him branded a liar if it was my mistake. I spoke to him quickly as I was running out to the Civil Rights conference. Otherwise, I'm glad you're airing the procedure and problems you are having. I know city officials are reading this. If you're following procedure to try to speak with someone, then the chief needs to know how members of the department are responding. Also, I am not trying to "isolate" your case. I'm trying to be very specific about it. I hate generalizations and sweeping indictments of any group or agency. I believe in knowing and hearing specifics (especially knowing how generalizations sometimes don't check out) and allowing everyone accused to respond to specifics. You're doing exactly the right thing by giving specifics of what is happening so JPD brass can hear it and people can respond and/or fix problems. I love this kind of transparency. As for learning the purse in your car, I understand. I have hidden mine inside vehicles, too, and every time I do it I know I am taking a risk. When I do, I always find a way to take my credit cards, etc., with me, though. Maybe a fanny pack would help folks in that circumstance -- although your car window could still get broken. My police commander friend in NYC drove a Taurus, left nothing of value in it and never locked his doors so that his windows wouldn't get broken. As for the bigger issue of preventing petty crime: sure, that is a wonderful goal. What do you think the police could have done to prevent the theft of your purse that day? And that's a serious question. When I talk about preventing crime, by the way, it usually does not involve police officer. By the time an officer responds to a crime, it's usually too late to prevent it. And we can't have a cop on every block, financially speaking. So clearly, it's about other things (like poverty, education, jobs, etc.) To bring us full circle.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T17:07:33-06:00

ID

162737

Comment

I feel your pain too, Torri. Got my house broken into twice when I lived in the Delta for 2 years. The Sheriff Department laughed at me because I used to get lots of so-called robbers off. Most were guilty but the authorities couldn't prove it as they're supposed to. I didn't want to see the mayor but I reported it to the Greenville Police Department and the Chief also came to my house and talked to me. He came on his own because he knew me. He even told me he would put a camera in the big tree in my yard because he felt the culprit would return again some day after I left. He didn't have another camera right then because he used the last one in another neighbor's tree. The damn thief found the camera and took it too. I promise I'm not lying y'all. The thief finally got caught after hitting scores of houses. None of us knew the other was being robbed because we weren't talking to each other as we should have been. I was in a neighborhood I wasn't supposed to be staying in. Glad to see Donna set forth what is supposed to happen so that the wrong leaders or persons aren't callously attacked as has been done so commonly by some people who hate our real leaders. I'm so tired of this bullcrap about how bad Jackson's leaders are! People don't like how they look, sound or act. If they're not doing their jobs run against them. Campaign against them. Send them home. Frank was a great exception. He was terrible by any measure. All of this non-sense about them is mostly a red-herring and that's all. Some criticisms are justified as we all know. What else y'all got? We want to hear and debunk it with all eyes on us.

Author

Walt

Date

2011-03-24T17:10:04-06:00

ID

162738

Comment

Just found this in e-mail; Chris sent it while I was at JSU: Just spoke with Deputy Chief Winstead... Just for clarity, Chief Winstead spoke to the young lady whose purse was stolen over the phone, but a detective had been assigned her case and she actually came to JPD and sat down with that detective to discuss her case.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T17:10:51-06:00

ID

162739

Comment

I'm sorry, but people have real complaints about this city and its not just because they're white and its majority is black. No one has ever said that is not true, Torri. I know you're upset about your car getting broken into, but please don't mischaracterize what I have said. That helps no one.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T17:12:28-06:00

ID

162740

Comment

There were a couple of comments that caught my eye, but let's focus on the actual thread first. On the census, the Mississippi Economic Policy Center raised some good points at last week's Friday Forum at Koinonia in regards to the census. Ed Sivak pointed out there are a great deal of employment opportunities in the metro area, and the metro attracts college graduates and professionals. However, people in Jackson with some college or higher level of education has decreased. This a part of the brain drain that you hear about. I think another point he made that has been mentioned several times on this thread was that trend among black folks in the South moving to the suburbs with Jackson being no different, and educated blacks are moving to suburban communities in the metro area. He also pointed out that we shouldn't be competing for people from other cities across the county, but we need to target people from communities in Mississippi. This is where I thinking a branding program would help because if you visit cities in the State, you realize the negative perception they have for Jackson. This is off the topic, but Donna expressed her animosity a couple times about Mark Small's group so I wanted to ask the question. Why the dislike for the Capital Center project? Is it personal or is it based on the large scale project? Capital Center and Old Capitol Green started about the same time, and unfortunately neither are progressing. Both projects sent out RFPs, and both projects only received one proposal. Both have asked for local financial incentives and both have bought the property for their project (I believe Full Spectrum has bought the property). Carlton and Full Spectrum have been highlighted and praised in BOOM Jackson and the JFP, while Mark Small and his group has been criticized by the JFP. Again, both are in the same boat. What's the difference?

Author

maybob95

Date

2011-03-24T17:30:48-06:00

ID

162741

Comment

As for Austin, I think it's a great city. It has several large corporations like Dell, Seton Healthcare, IBM, Freescale Semiconductor and Selectron. Earlier this decade, they completed a 400,000 sf expansion of their convention center that now stands at nearly 900,000 sf and covers six city blocks. The wealthy University of Texas (over 13,000 employees and over 50,000 students) really helps the City and Downtown. South by Southwest is incredible and the major sponsors that make this huge event happen is amazing. On the waterfront there are some great projects like the posh Milago Condos and the proposed 21c hotel/mixed-use/museum project. In regards to their downtown groups, the Downtown Austin Alliance can provide a 50% reduction in various fees for downtown projects, and the City of Austin and the County provide funding to the DAA. From what I know, the City and Downtown Partners have never had this type of relationship. I wish this was the case, but I doubt it will happen since Ben's predecessors could never create that type of relationship. If you look on DAA development page, the City of Austin produced some good information. I know most of that information is produced by Downtown Partners locally, but it also shows you how the two groups work together. There are a ton of large scale projects on the drawing board. Good for Downtown Austin! The arena was mentioned a few times so if you look at the RFP that the City sent out, it looks awfully like the one the Arena Committee sent out a year or so ago. I hope the City follows up with it because it is a long range project that needs planning to be done. I know there was some contention about the validity of the project because private funds were being solicited so I hope the City can find the money to fund the project without hurting other projects/programs. As for more small scale developments in Downtown, I wish Duckworth, Peters, Watkins or Mart Lamar would do more downtown projects. Unfortunately, most of them have other interests besides downtown, and they aren't a whole lot of local folks willing or have the ability to redo the buildings that need to be renovated. Like the trend with other cities, the local folks gets the development started and larger out of state people start investing and then you figure out how to blend them. If you know of anyone who is willing to invest, I'm sure Downtown Partners and local developers would jump on the chance to work with them, but it seems the usual suspects are pretty much tapped out at the moment. As for public spaces, I'm glad you brought that up. Redesigning and renovating Smith Park was a project goal that resulted from the Chattanooga trip. A committe was formed from the participants to approach the City about the project. It was discussed with various department personnel, and we were told to stop the process. I'm sure this is a turf issue, but it is disappointing that Downtown residents, Downtown businesses and people that see it want the park rehabbed and a effort by private citizens was shot down. I think we need to recruit Virgi Lindsay because she has done wonders with Belhaven Park. I really do like the Art Garden at the Museum of Art that I saw on Partners' blog. As for cutting down trees, I think it's fine if you can put another tree that's more appropriate. Have you walked down Capitol Street at night? Even when the street lights are working, some of the oak trees make the sidewalks pitch black. It would be great to have those decorative lights on Congress Street for Capitol, but City can't seem to keep more than four on each block working. I do have to say this year, they have fixed some of the lights that have been broken for a couple of years.

Author

maybob95

Date

2011-03-24T17:31:53-06:00

ID

162743

Comment

Maybob, great posts. Only a few things: Austin has all of that ... now. That's the point. As I understand it, from the beginning its renaissance was a real mix of projects (Todd and I talked about this on the radio show last week in some detail). As for South by Southwest, the alt newsweekly there was instrumental in it early on, I'm happy to say. ;-) The point isn't that all big projects are bad (although some of them are). The point is that we put way too many eggs in that basket, and of late, I've heard DJP push very little other than large, "bodacious" projects that requires public funding such as TIFs, etc. The point is that we need a more varied menu and effort to appeal to residents, and then the visitors and newcomers will come. Of course, this is the same meme we've pushed for years, so nothing new there. As for Mark Small's (or Gene Phillips') promise to build us a convention center hotel -- where is it? How it's coming? We're hearing not so good. I'm not going to repeat it here, but we've reported for years about our concerns about the Gene Phillips organizations and history, including the controversies in Oklahoma. And for the record, I've never been overly confident that Capitol Green is going to happen, either, but its developers don't share the same concerning history. Any efforts at parks/green space = good. With you there.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T17:59:00-06:00

ID

162744

Comment

And why does anybody think suburban growth is across-the-board bad for Jackson? Suburbanites pay sales tax when they shop here, too, and we're centrally located relative to the suburbs–ideal location for businesses, social events, etc. It would be great to see more people living in the city (and I think the 2010 data suggests that Jackson's black middle class is growing), but anything that increases the overall size of the metro area stands to potentially increase our tax base. Agreed. Especially if every word out of our mouths isn't alienating to people who have decided to live outside the city limits for whatever reason. My *whole* point has been to stop the over-simplification, hysteria and generalizations that have shot around about this ever since Allen did his presentation and the other media pounced on it without any useful context. That kind of crap just runs people off. It's self-defeating. It downplays and negates so much of the hard work people are doing on behalf of the city. And for the record: Anything else anyone tries to attribute to me other than what I have actually said is horse hockey, so stop it. Just because you're not bothering to listen or think about what I'm saying doesn't mean you got to rewrite it into garbage. A whole bunch of people are in need of taking some breaths and recognizing that a lot of this hysteria is political and very, very similiar to the Perception-Gate crap that got Melton elected and probably ran a sh!t-ton of those folks out of town. Calm down and think, or Lord knows who/what we could up with in City Hall. The last thing we need is another mayor who gets city "leaders" to heel and do their bidding because he has stuff on them. Y'all know who you are.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-24T18:03:16-06:00

ID

162753

Comment

Being that this thread has gotten long and convoluted, I'm starting a new thread on my blog. Please come there to continue discussing the issue of hysteria/drama and being proactive versus reactive. Thanks, all. Lots of folks are reading and talking about this discussion. I appreciate the feedback! Engage, all! Stop the brain drain. Oh, and click here to add to a list of reasons that people leave Jackson. We need to come up with as many as we can, and then start breaking it down and discussing the ones we think we can do something to change -- and come up with actions for each.

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-25T09:27:29-06:00

ID

162755

Comment

(Oh, and Torri, please e-mail your phone number. We'd like to interview you about your problems with JPD. Let's get as specific as we can about problems and procedures and hold the city's feet to the fire on clearing them up, even as we all get more savvy about our own security habits.)

Author

DonnaLadd

Date

2011-03-25T09:40:22-06:00